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(NewsChannel 5 Nashville) NewsFlash Obama says fiscal cliff deal is "emerging." OK HOPE IS COMING OUT   (newschannel5.com) divider line 993
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2012-12-31 03:20:00 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: CruJones: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.

I'm not wealthy but I invest in the market, as does most everyone I know to some degree. Raising the taxes by 33% will affect future decisions and investments.

You'll stop investing in stocks you think will return a profit?


When I sell I re-invest. There will be less to invest now. I also currently take a portion and invest in small companies or startups. I'll simply have less "discretionary" investment money now. I currently use about 5% for this. Unfortunately 95% of my investment money is geared towards retirement and boring stuff like that. I may also look at alternative investments, like rental properties, etc.

That said, what I do won't move the markets one iota. But it will for others.
 
2012-12-31 03:20:07 PM
Let's see, If you make 250K a year you are pulling down about 5K a week, about a grand a day, and you are biatching about paying a extra 3% on what you make over 250K. Cry me a river.
 
2012-12-31 03:20:18 PM

david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


LOL. As a NoVA resident myself, I can close my eyes, throw a rock and hit a dual-GS-15-income family, which would be at least $250k. (If Mrs. PCoC had a better job, we'd be one ourselves.) A 30-year mortgage payment (including property taxes) on a $350k home would be under $2k a month, or just under 10% of that $250k a year salary. Trivially affordable. Somehow, even with our lowly combined $200k income, we have no problem affording a $350k house. $250k is pretty goddamned well off. So is $200k.
 
2012-12-31 03:20:31 PM

Bontesla: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky):

I came to the floor and noted we needed to act, but that I needed a dance partner. So I reached out to the Vice President


"Up until then, all the boys had standing against one wall and the girls the other. By golly, somebody needed to do something to get this shindig a-hoppin'. What I couldn't have ever predicted though, is how my heart would soar as I took Joe's hand in mine..."
 
2012-12-31 03:20:44 PM

wombatsrus: Somacandra: Jake Steed: STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

It takes years and years to stop a single aircraft engine the Bush and Obama militaries don't even want. Why would any of this be simple?

When both parties cannot stop expenditures like this, further proof that Ike was right about the military-industrial complex.

When will folks admit that the only reason so much military spending exists is to enrich corporations and create boondoggle jobs, and has nothing to do with defending ourselves?


You would be more persuasive if you left out absolutes like "the only reason." You know there are entrenched interests besides those you listed, and paranoia about Russia and China are real in Washington.
 
2012-12-31 03:20:45 PM

ChipNASA: [i1191.photobucket.com image 275x200]
"The Democrats will Fix This, Don't you all worry none
You'll have your cell phones and Your welfare checks but you ain't got no guns
Obammy's got yer back, Senate's gonna get er' done

Go back to your protesting, And watching CNN
Hillary's gonna be OK, Chocolate Jesus has Risen AGAIN!"


How old are you?
 
2012-12-31 03:20:55 PM

deanis: ChipNASA: [i1191.photobucket.com image 275x200]
"The Democrats will Fix This, Don't you all worry none
You'll have your cell phones and Your welfare checks but you ain't got no guns
Obammy's got yer back, Senate's gonna get er' done

Go back to your protesting, And watching CNN
Hillary's gonna be OK, Chocolate Jesus has Risen AGAIN!"

lolwut


I'm just trying to make as much sense as the folks inside the Beltway.
 
2012-12-31 03:21:26 PM
Help me out with this, cause I think I'm not understand the system right now... but, even if the Senate passes a bill, how the hell is Boehner gonna pass tax increases on 450k+ when he couldn't do it at a million last week? Am I missing some procedure or something?
 
2012-12-31 03:21:50 PM
1) Ignore the Saudis who attacked us on 09/01/01
2) Attack a different country where we set up the dictator to be in power using
3) False accusations of WOMADs, then
4) Pour trillions into a funnel that empties into a fan, making the money untracable while
5) American companies get rich or get bailed out while
6) The banks cheat and steal and then get bailed out and given raises, then
7) Proclaim the American Taxpayer must pay for their stupidity and have a ""Fiscal Cliff"
You cliff doesn't exist. You can just execute the bastards that took you money and resotre the balance of finance, and power that way.
Or, since you are all gutless wimps, you'l STFU and take a pay cut, while
8) Congress votes itself a pay raise.
Happy New Year's
 
2012-12-31 03:21:51 PM

ProfessorOhki: Bontesla: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky):

I came to the floor and noted we needed to act, but that I needed a dance partner. So I reached out to the Vice President

"Up until then, all the boys had standing against one wall and the girls the other. By golly, somebody needed to do something to get this shindig a-hoppin'. What I couldn't have ever predicted though, is how my heart would soar as I took Joe's hand in mine..."


This should have been the version he led with!
 
2012-12-31 03:22:00 PM

factoryconnection: Bontesla: Yesterday, after days of inaction, I came to the floor and noted we needed to act, but that I needed a dance partner.

How is a man that abjectly failed in every measurable way at his only task in the last four years still in a position of leadership? He stated his one job clear as day was "to make Obama a one-term president." Protect our country's credit rating? Nope. Iron out problems with domestic and foreign policies? Not on his watch! Learn to compromise so that everything isn't a knock-down, drag-out fight? That's for wine-drinking liberals. He had a job.

He failed, as I'm fairly certain we won't be installing any non-threatening white men in January to the Presidency. How does this man have any credibility left?


LOL. Credibility is not the steam that powers Washington.
 
2012-12-31 03:22:43 PM

jaybeezey: Uranus Is Huge!: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

Many responsible Americans would work some overtime or get another job to increase the household income.

Then what are the 47% doing wrong?


Voting Republican?
 
2012-12-31 03:22:54 PM
Major Garrett @MajorCBS

Tax details in POTENTIAL DEAL: 39.6 percent $400K individual, $450K families; CapGain/Dividends at 20% +3.8% from ACA (23.8% total)
 
2012-12-31 03:23:10 PM

Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.


Funded war. If only the GOP had thought about that the last decade. But, heck, they know better than any the government that waged war in history--at least to the one that deficits mattered.
 
2012-12-31 03:23:21 PM

david_gaithersburg: I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!


And yet somehow believe that there aren't any houses cheaper than $350k in Montgomery County. Or spell financial.... but I'll give a pass on that since it's really not math related at all.
 
2012-12-31 03:23:35 PM

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Taxes is not a penalty. It's part of living in a civilized non-pit of horse poo. We (about 90% of America) have supported your tax breaks with, cuts to social programs, education, infrastructure (not to mention corporate welfare) for years. It's time to pay your due. Sorry, but as much as you guys think your supporting us, we are tired of supporting you.
 
2012-12-31 03:23:55 PM

CruJones: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: CruJones: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.

I'm not wealthy but I invest in the market, as does most everyone I know to some degree. Raising the taxes by 33% will affect future decisions and investments.

You'll stop investing in stocks you think will return a profit?

When I sell I re-invest. There will be less to invest now. I also currently take a portion and invest in small companies or startups. I'll simply have less "discretionary" investment money now. I currently use about 5% for this. Unfortunately 95% of my investment money is geared towards retirement and boring stuff like that. I may also look at alternative investments, like rental properties, etc.

That said, what I do won't move the markets one iota. But it will for others.


It seems my rates won't go up regardless, so carry on.

/wish I made $400k
 
2012-12-31 03:24:36 PM
Hmm..another year of extended unemployment benefits. I wonder what Obama had to give up to the cons for that. Anyone?
 
2012-12-31 03:25:18 PM

DamnYankees: Ezra Klein  @ezraklein
That said, if the presser really does hurt a deal, Congress is a more ridiculous, trivial place than I gave it credit for.

Ezra Klein  @ezrakleinI really look forward to the first member of congress who says they can't vote for the deal because the president was too merry

Ezra Klein  @ezrakleinThere was a time when politics was so grim only the Onion could adequately cover it. Now it's so stupid that I think it's up to GIFs.


Exactly. Taxes should go up on everyone. Except me, or course. At this point in my life I'm a tax taker.
 
2012-12-31 03:25:52 PM
Hope already came last night, and beat the Cowboys with nine completions.
 
2012-12-31 03:25:59 PM

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: Help me out with this, cause I think I'm not understand the system right now... but, even if the Senate passes a bill, how the hell is Boehner gonna pass tax increases on 450k+ when he couldn't do it at a million last week? Am I missing some procedure or something?


Time Pressure. Learn about it. You'll save a quarter million dollars in your lifetime if you do.
 
2012-12-31 03:26:05 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Hmm..another year of extended unemployment benefits. I wonder what Obama had to give up to the cons for that. Anyone?


Another year of Medicare Advantage.
 
2012-12-31 03:26:25 PM

david_gaithersburg: coeyagi: shower_in_my_socks: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


And the cheapest house on Carbon Beach in Malibu is $10M. Won't somebody please think of the "lower middle-class" millionaires living on Carbon Beach? It's a stupid argument. $250k/year is a shiatload of money. I live better than most people I know, in an expensive city, and I make less than half that.

I am not entirely sure why we keep engaging this guy. His math is pretty indicative of the brainfarts of a mongoloid. Because your average mongoloid thinks that the DC region should be the litmus test for tax rates.

.
I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!


So you're saying you're sort of a big deal? I bet you have many leather bound books and your apartment smells of rich mahogany.
 
2012-12-31 03:26:37 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.


i.imgur.com

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.
 
2012-12-31 03:26:58 PM

Wangiss: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

Word.


Meh. Despite that historical speedbump, I think my point still is valid. Whatever happened to doing things for the good of the nation rather than doing them for yourself? Was that the 80s' fault?
 
2012-12-31 03:27:17 PM

Bontesla: Major Garrett @MajorCBS

Tax details in POTENTIAL DEAL: 39.6 percent $400K individual, $450K families; CapGain/Dividends at 20% +3.8% from ACA (23.8% total)


If Obama can convince the GOP to accept a capital gains tax increase, he deserves another Nobel Prize.
 
2012-12-31 03:27:23 PM

incendi: david_gaithersburg: I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!

And yet somehow believe that there aren't any houses cheaper than $350k in Montgomery County. Or spell financial.... but I'll give a pass on that since it's really not math related at all.


Part of my job includes finding out incorrect spellings of "financial" and its synonyms. "Financial" is the worst keyword in existence.
 
2012-12-31 03:27:51 PM
So if I understand it, rate increases for $450K+, loss of Bush era extra deductions for $250K+, extension of stimulus deductions (don't think this includes payroll tax holiday, but I could be wrong), raises estate tax 5% on those with more than $5 million (he wanted 10% more on estates worth more than $3.5 million), the capital gains rate stays the same (or actually increases 3.8% increase, but that's part of the PPACA that Republicans tried to overturn early in negotiations), and we get the doc fix and unemployment extended. Entitlements untouched. Sounds like a decent deal to me.

Of course, Republicans have already put out statements about how they totally would have voted for this if Obama hadn't made a public statement, so it's his fault if this doesn't pass. Sort of like how Nancy Pelosi saying mean things was the reason they had to vote against the bailout because she said mean things that made them sad and forced them to cause a major stock drop for several more days.
 
2012-12-31 03:28:01 PM

Orange-Pippin: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Taxes is not a penalty. It's part of living in a civilized non-pit of horse poo. We (about 90% of America) have supported your tax breaks with, cuts to social programs, education, infrastructure (not to mention corporate welfare) for years. It's time to pay your due. Sorry, but as much as you guys think your supporting us, we are tired of supporting you.


...by taking less and less of your money.
 
2012-12-31 03:28:05 PM

Mentat: Bontesla: Major Garrett @MajorCBS

Tax details in POTENTIAL DEAL: 39.6 percent $400K individual, $450K families; CapGain/Dividends at 20% +3.8% from ACA (23.8% total)

If Obama can convince the GOP to accept a capital gains tax increase, he deserves another Nobel Prize.


Billy House @HouseInSession
House GOP Leadership Source: Republican conference later today/early evening on McConnell-Biden plan.


What are the odds of this passing in the House?
 
2012-12-31 03:28:37 PM
Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!
flicksided.com
 
2012-12-31 03:28:39 PM

AngryPanda: Wangiss: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

Word.

Meh. Despite that historical speedbump, I think my point still is valid. Whatever happened to doing things for the good of the nation rather than doing them for yourself? Was that the 80s' fault?


I dunno. Sexual revolution?
 
2012-12-31 03:29:16 PM
Also, I hope all of these "low income" 250Kers can keep their refrigerators if their taxes go up.
 
2012-12-31 03:29:41 PM

Wangiss: wombatsrus: Somacandra: Jake Steed: STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

It takes years and years to stop a single aircraft engine the Bush and Obama militaries don't even want. Why would any of this be simple?

When both parties cannot stop expenditures like this, further proof that Ike was right about the military-industrial complex.

When will folks admit that the only reason so much military spending exists is to enrich corporations and create boondoggle jobs, and has nothing to do with defending ourselves?

You would be more persuasive if you left out absolutes like "the only reason." You know there are entrenched interests besides those you listed, and paranoia about Russia and China are real in Washington.


Well, every time there is serious talk about cutting military spending, the only cry I hear is "so many jobs will be lost!" and little or nothing else about any other reason. For example, I haven't anything about how the "fiscal cliff" will impact defending ourselves, but all about how defense contractors will have to fire folks due to projects being cancelled.

Perhaps there are other reasons, but if so they not being leveraged as much as the "jobs loss" fear.
 
2012-12-31 03:30:44 PM

Somacandra: Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.

[i.imgur.com image 191x300]

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.


Okay, fine. ...modern conservative thought.

Progress ALWAYS wins! Suck it and enjoy your New Year.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:13 PM

ChipNASA: Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!
[flicksided.com image 266x264]


Come on now. Pimpin' ain't easy.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:16 PM
Rebecca Berg @rebeccagberg

Sen. Portman asks that Pres. Obama NOT increase pay for Congress "until a long-term deficit reduction agreement is reached."

Rebecca Berg @rebeccagberg Oh no. RT @jonallendc: Sad news: Lillian Lewis, wife of Rep. John Lewis, died.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:24 PM
FARK ESTATE TAXES.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:27 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Hmm..another year of extended unemployment benefits. I wonder what Obama had to give up to the cons for that. Anyone?


The $250K ceiling on raising taxes, perhaps? I hope that was all it is, because I'd rather go over the farking cliff than further negotiate with economic terrorists.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:59 PM

AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!
People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.


toppun.com
 
2012-12-31 03:32:05 PM

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: Help me out with this, cause I think I'm not understand the system right now... but, even if the Senate passes a bill, how the hell is Boehner gonna pass tax increases on 450k+ when he couldn't do it at a million last week? Am I missing some procedure or something?


Boehner had some moderate GOP support for his plan. Many of them are retiring/being forced out tomorrow, so they have no incentive to vote against the deal.

similar to Snowe and Lugar in the Senate, who were actually ok with a $250k threshold.

you only need a handful of republicans in the House to vote yes, as long as Democrats hold it together.
 
2012-12-31 03:32:29 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: Somacandra: Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.

[i.imgur.com image 191x300]

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.

Okay, fine. ...modern conservative thought.

Progress ALWAYS wins! Suck it and enjoy your New Year.


A NEW YEAR? WHY CAN'T IT JUST BE 1960 AGAIN?
 
2012-12-31 03:32:29 PM
You gotta love how cutting so called defense spending isn't even on the table.
 
2012-12-31 03:32:44 PM

Bontesla: Billy House @HouseInSession
House GOP Leadership Source: Republican conference later today/early evening on McConnell-Biden plan.


What are the odds of this passing in the House?


I keep praying that we see the Tea Party contingent of the House start screaming "No taxation without representation!" on the floor of the House.
 
2012-12-31 03:33:00 PM
steve liesman @steveliesman

Source familiar w/ negotiations tells me discussions on sequester are "all over the place." But expects agreement.

steve liesman @steveliesman Source tells me main issues on sequester are how long it can be delayed and how much can be "bought down" with either rev or other cuts.
 
2012-12-31 03:33:23 PM

lenfromak: Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Oh, look! Another Independent who doesn't understand marginal tax rates!
 
2012-12-31 03:33:24 PM

Nabb1: I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.


You're smarter than this. You know perfectly well the military-industrial complex has behaved in a perpetual state of war from the end of WWII to the end of the Berlin Wall, and has fought tooth and nail to impose a permanent lavish state of militarism--often winning when the ostensible government balked. How many U.S. military bases exist worldwide? Running an empire is not cheap. You're paying for that through the nose much more than for a welfare state where funds distributed at least go back into the domestic economy.
 
2012-12-31 03:33:32 PM

wombatsrus: Wangiss: wombatsrus: Somacandra: Jake Steed: STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

It takes years and years to stop a single aircraft engine the Bush and Obama militaries don't even want. Why would any of this be simple?

When both parties cannot stop expenditures like this, further proof that Ike was right about the military-industrial complex.

When will folks admit that the only reason so much military spending exists is to enrich corporations and create boondoggle jobs, and has nothing to do with defending ourselves?

You would be more persuasive if you left out absolutes like "the only reason." You know there are entrenched interests besides those you listed, and paranoia about Russia and China are real in Washington.

Well, every time there is serious talk about cutting military spending, the only cry I hear is "so many jobs will be lost!" and little or nothing else about any other reason. For example, I haven't anything about how the "fiscal cliff" will impact defending ourselves, but all about how defense contractors will have to fire folks due to projects being cancelled.

Perhaps there are other reasons, but if so they not being leveraged as much as the "jobs loss" fear.


It's the only demagoguery that crosses party lines, so it's the one you'll hear. The Republican "national defense" line is legacy and it works on the right. The Democrats learned that no one questions the FDR WWII economic defense, so it's a perfect nexus for justification of tyranny and murder. Yay!
 
2012-12-31 03:33:48 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: coeyagi: Yeah, which means a bunch of hicks with rifles and yellow snake flags shouting retarded rhetoric in a Southern Drawl. 2009 called and it wants its "civic action" back.

Actually, it seems to be taking the form of shooting up Sikh temples and pushing Indians in front of subway trains. Hicks don't really care who they are revenge-killing so long as they have brown skin and don't talk like Muricans.


What happens the subway pushie is brown skinned?
 
2012-12-31 03:34:32 PM

Hale-Bopp: You gotta love how cutting so called defense spending isn't even on the table.


As I understand it no cuts are on the table right now for anything in this small package.
 
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