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(NewsChannel 5 Nashville) NewsFlash Obama says fiscal cliff deal is "emerging." OK HOPE IS COMING OUT   (newschannel5.com) divider line 993
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4955 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2012 at 2:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Archived thread
 
2012-12-31 02:30:01 PM  
poop?
 
2012-12-31 02:30:05 PM  
400/450k cutoff now? I wonder how much nothing Dems got in return for that bullshiat.
 
2012-12-31 02:30:05 PM  
Yay! We win!!!
 
2012-12-31 02:31:03 PM  
"Obama is the GREATEST!!!"
files.abovetopsecret.com
 
2012-12-31 02:31:05 PM  
Personally I'm rooting for the fiscal cliff.
 
2012-12-31 02:31:11 PM  
Too late for Headline of the Year?
 
2012-12-31 02:31:13 PM  
Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx
 
2012-12-31 02:31:43 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

RIP, Cliff
 
2012-12-31 02:31:44 PM  
I wouldn't actually be that concerned about it, but the person in our HR dept. who handles payroll is about as sensible and grounded as a dirigible shaped like a porcupine and I can't really envision any scenario at this point where he gets any part of our federal withholding right for about the first four months of 2013...
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-12-31 02:32:14 PM  

ChuDogg: Personally I'm rooting for the fiscal cliff.


I'm rooting for the debt ceiling.

SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING!!!
 
2012-12-31 02:32:42 PM  
Prediction: Zero people will be pleased with the result.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
2012-12-31 02:33:21 PM  

sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx


Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.
 
2012-12-31 02:33:25 PM  
What if the debt ceiling and the fiscal cliff had a baby?
 
2012-12-31 02:33:42 PM  
And by the next election everything these clowns did will be forgotten.
 
2012-12-31 02:33:59 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Prediction: Zero people will be pleased with the result.

I hope I'm wrong.


It's not a proper compromise until everyone hates it.
 
2012-12-31 02:34:09 PM  
Taking bets now on all previously mentioned talking points!

3 to 1 he cuts Social Security in exchange for a new assault weapon ban
4 to 1 he ignores everything the Republicans throw at him
5 to 1 he gets the cap raised to 450k, but has to eat a baby wrapped in puppies on CSPAN

Takers?
 
2012-12-31 02:34:20 PM  
RIP Cliff

userserve-ak.last.fm
 
2012-12-31 02:34:59 PM  

sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx


It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here
 
2012-12-31 02:35:02 PM  

nekom: What if the debt ceiling and the fiscal cliff had a baby?


They did.

www.examiner.com
 
2012-12-31 02:35:10 PM  

sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx


Personally I'd rather see it set at $70k
 
2012-12-31 02:35:14 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


It's not a penalty. It's a love bite!
 
2012-12-31 02:35:24 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: 400/450k cutoff now? I wonder how much nothing Dems got in return for that bullshiat.


Breaking GOP orthodoxy and undoing chained SS COLA is your definition of nothing?
 
2012-12-31 02:35:27 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


I would be hit. Don't have a problem with it. Taxes are not a "penalty".
 
2012-12-31 02:35:34 PM  
A deal that doesn't obviate the debt limit, gains a pathetic $800 billion in revenue, and takes an axe to Social Security (which is practically irrelevant to the deficit).

Obama is the worst poker player alive.
 
2012-12-31 02:35:37 PM  

vernonFL: RIP Cliff

[userserve-ak.last.fm image 500x322]


Too soon man too soon!
 
2012-12-31 02:35:38 PM  

groppet: And by the next election everything these clowns did will be forgotten.


One can only hope.
 
2012-12-31 02:35:49 PM  

nekom: What if the debt ceiling and the fiscal cliff had a baby?


They're working on it.
 
2012-12-31 02:35:56 PM  
So, what, are they simply delaying an actual deal for another year, just like they did before?
 
2012-12-31 02:36:05 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Prediction: Zero people will be pleased with the result.

I hope I'm wrong.


To be fair, even though nobody ever says it, that's true of any compromise. A little bit relief, a little bit disappointment.

That said, fark compromise. The republicans want something from a position of nothing after spending four years of doing nothing. Fark those guys right in the nostril. Americans spoke about what they want and it's nothing that the republicans are offering. They can either put on some big boy pants, suck it up and do what the country wants done or they can focus on driving themselves even deeper into obscurity.
 
2012-12-31 02:36:16 PM  

sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx


But that would include too many in Congress.
 
2012-12-31 02:36:55 PM  
Glad to see Obama using that whopping mandate he got from his sweeping 51% of the vote.
 
2012-12-31 02:37:16 PM  
Is it crowning yet? Or feet first?
 
2012-12-31 02:37:32 PM  

Wangiss: nekom: What if the debt ceiling and the fiscal cliff had a baby?

They're working on it.


*exactly*
 
2012-12-31 02:37:32 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Uranus Is Huge!: Prediction: Zero people will be pleased with the result.

I hope I'm wrong.

To be fair, even though nobody ever says it, that's true of any compromise. A little bit relief, a little bit disappointment.

That said, fark compromise. The republicans want something from a position of nothing after spending four years of doing nothing. Fark those guys right in the nostril. Americans spoke about what they want and it's nothing that the republicans are offering. They can either put on some big boy pants, suck it up and do what the country wants done or they can focus on driving themselves even deeper into obscurity.


They wrote some budgets, and yet we do not have a budget. Weird.
 
2012-12-31 02:37:32 PM  
So now they are saying zero cuts?  What's the point?  The "millionaires and billionaires tax" isn't half a drop in the bucket!
Damn, we really are doomed.
 
2012-12-31 02:37:34 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


It really doesn't matter at those levels. Seriously at the $450k cutoff it's a couple thousand dollars. I'm sorry but on almost 40 grand a month gross, a couple hundred a month isn't a huge hit.
 
2012-12-31 02:37:37 PM  
OK, so if the 400/450k came at the cost of UI extension and no revenue cuts, I think I can tolerate that.

Of course the House Republicans won't, so off the cliff we go!
 
2012-12-31 02:37:56 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


You'd only be taxed 3% more on what you make above $250,000. If you make enough above $250,000 that it makes a noticeable impact, then you are NOT just "moderately" successful.
 
2012-12-31 02:37:57 PM  

ChuDogg: Personally I'm rooting for the fiscal cliff.


Yeah... I admit, I sort of want to see what would happen. A halving of the deficit triggered by partisan dickery and an inability to make compromises? That's some popcorn politics.
 
2012-12-31 02:38:06 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Uranus Is Huge!: Prediction: Zero people will be pleased with the result.

I hope I'm wrong.

To be fair, even though nobody ever says it, that's true of any compromise. A little bit relief, a little bit disappointment.

That said, fark compromise. The republicans want something from a position of nothing after spending four years of doing nothing. Fark those guys right in the nostril. Americans spoke about what they want and it's nothing that the republicans are offering. They can either put on some big boy pants, suck it up and do what the country wants done or they can focus on driving themselves even deeper into obscurity.


farkin' right! The compromise shouldn't be the middle point between a reasonable proposal and a derp tsunami.
 
2012-12-31 02:38:10 PM  

ChipNASA: Wangiss: nekom: What if the debt ceiling and the fiscal cliff had a baby?

They're working on it.

*exactly*


a.abcnews.com
 
2012-12-31 02:38:12 PM  

ChipNASA: Wangiss: nekom: What if the debt ceiling and the fiscal cliff had a baby?

They're working on it.

*exactly*


I'm glad you got it.
 
2012-12-31 02:38:29 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Ok!
 
2012-12-31 02:38:39 PM  
(skipped: skipping non-voting comment in contest thread)
 
2012-12-31 02:38:50 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here


Exactly. If only there was a simple way to make the cutoff location-adjusted.
 
2012-12-31 02:39:01 PM  

Wangiss: They wrote some budgets, and yet we do not have a budget. Weird.


When the Democrat-led Senate keeps rejecting your budget plan, you compromise with them.You DON'T double down on stupidity.
 
2012-12-31 02:39:18 PM  
The GOP is just an incredible bunch of crybabies.
 
2012-12-31 02:39:22 PM  

ArtosRC: So, what, are they simply delaying an actual deal for another year, just like they did before?


Most likely.  Let the Bush tax cuts expire on $250K+, pass some token spending cuts but set them out long enough to have time to repeal or modify them, and pass a kick-the-can measure on the fiscal cliff trigger.

Plus, the debt ceiling will be breached in a few weeks anyway.
 
2012-12-31 02:39:33 PM  
Conservative and libral butt hurt sounds like the health care bill, which was a pretty damn good bill and a wonder that it got passed in this day in age. So I have high hopes.
 
2012-12-31 02:39:36 PM  

Lupine Chemist: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

It really doesn't matter at those levels. Seriously at the $450k cutoff it's a couple thousand dollars. I'm sorry but on almost 40 grand a month gross, a couple hundred a month isn't a huge hit.


But then I can't buy that ivory back scratcher... :-(
 
2012-12-31 02:39:49 PM  

sonnyboy11: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

I would be hit. Don't have a problem with it. Taxes are not a "penalty".


Not if you consider a fair, function society worthwhile.
 
2012-12-31 02:39:54 PM  
Ezra Klein  @ezraklein
That said, if the presser really does hurt a deal, Congress is a more ridiculous, trivial place than I gave it credit for.

Ezra Klein  @ezrakleinI really look forward to the first member of congress who says they can't vote for the deal because the president was too merry

Ezra Klein  @ezrakleinThere was a time when politics was so grim only the Onion could adequately cover it. Now it's so stupid that I think it's up to GIFs.
 
2012-12-31 02:39:57 PM  

ChipNASA: "Obama is the GREATEST!!!"
[files.abovetopsecret.com image 224x163]


Chris Matthews agrees: "This guy's done everything right. He's raised his family right. He's fought his way all the way to the top of the Harvard Law Review, in a blind test becomes head of the Review, the top editor there. Everything he's done is clean as a whistle. He's never not only broken any law, he's never done anything wrong. He's the perfect father, the perfect husband, the perfect American. And all they do is trash the guy."

Well, except for the Choom Gang. Good luck on your marijuana charges, citizen.
 
2012-12-31 02:40:00 PM  
If we exceed the debt ceiling, just stop all medicare and social security checks written to districts that don't support raising the debt ceiling -- sorry not enough federal money to send those checks.

Doesn't the country running out of money mean that it's completely Obama's call what checks to write and what checks don't get paid?
 
2012-12-31 02:40:00 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Grow up. $250k is the top 2% of wage earners, not "moderately successful"

Or to be specific, if you consider yourself moderately successful, think of how the people making 20% of your income have to deal with
 
2012-12-31 02:40:02 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: They wrote some budgets, and yet we do not have a budget. Weird.

When the Democrat-led Senate keeps rejecting your budget plan, you compromise with them.You DON'T double down on stupidity.



When the Democrat-led Senate wants a budget, they'll get a budget. They do not want a budget.
 
2012-12-31 02:40:10 PM  
Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.
 
2012-12-31 02:40:28 PM  
Obama still has plenty of time to cave in completely. He only offered up 90% of what the GOP wanted in his last proposal.
 
2012-12-31 02:40:29 PM  

imontheinternet: Plus, the debt ceiling will be breached in a few weeks anyway.


Any deal that doesn't account for this is worse than useless.
 
2012-12-31 02:40:35 PM  
What are the chances some hillbilly, closet-case congressman tries to sneak in an amendment about life beginning at ejaculation?
 
2012-12-31 02:40:48 PM  
Isn't that kind of saying "Almost pregnant"?
 
2012-12-31 02:41:07 PM  

sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx


.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.
 
2012-12-31 02:41:13 PM  

Lupine Chemist: Shrugging Atlas: 400/450k cutoff now? I wonder how much nothing Dems got in return for that bullshiat.

Breaking GOP orthodoxy and undoing chained SS COLA is your definition of nothing?


First off, GOP orthodoxy seems pretty alive and strong, so I wouldn't bust out the fireworks just yet.

Second, undoing chained SS COLA is great if that in fact happened, but let's not forget Obama offered it in the first place.

As I just said, if it's 400/450k + UI extension and no revenue cuts...I'm fine with that. But there's NO way it passes the House unless Boehner doesn't a complete 180 and allows the bill to come to a vote knowing most GOPers will reject it. It will have to pass with near universal Dem support and something like 20 GOP defectors. Possible...but again, will Boehner allow it?
 
2012-12-31 02:41:35 PM  

GoldSpider: Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here

Exactly. If only there was a simple way to make the cutoff location-adjusted.


Tough to do but I'm listening.
 
2012-12-31 02:41:39 PM  

Wangiss: Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: They wrote some budgets, and yet we do not have a budget. Weird.

When the Democrat-led Senate keeps rejecting your budget plan, you compromise with them.You DON'T double down on stupidity.


When the Democrat-led Senate wants a budget, they'll get a budget. They do not want a budget.


So is that why the GOP led House sends them budget plans that are nothing more than partisan wankery instead of something serious?
 
2012-12-31 02:41:53 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Paying taxes is being penalized?
 
2012-12-31 02:41:56 PM  

ChuDogg: Personally I'm rooting for the fiscal cliff.


Same, and let the people hold these assclowns in office accountable. All of them.
 
2012-12-31 02:42:37 PM  

Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.


So you're in favor of the defense cuts?
 
2012-12-31 02:42:55 PM  
Oblig (NSFW because Fark said so)
 
2012-12-31 02:43:11 PM  

jigger: Well, except for the Choom Gang. Good luck on your marijuana charges, citizen.


It's a double negative, we're good here. To be frank, the legal code is such a mess that pretty much everybody has never not broken any law.
 
2012-12-31 02:43:24 PM  
I hope enough Republicans in the House see the wisdom of avoiding this manufactured crisis.
 
2012-12-31 02:43:37 PM  

GoldSpider: Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here

Exactly. If only there was a simple way to make the cutoff location-adjusted.


That's nonsense. Deciding to live in expensive cities IS CONSUMPTION. You are actively choosing to live in a place which gets you certain benefits. It's no different than any other kind of consumption. The idea of adjusting tax rates for that would simply be a massive subsidy towards a certain type of consumption.
 
2012-12-31 02:43:50 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: takes an axe to Social Security (which is practically irrelevant to the deficit).


Don't think so, all of the recent stuff said chain CPI is off the table. Too much backlash.
 
2012-12-31 02:43:51 PM  

david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.


Yeah no, 250K is not low middle income, it's more like high middle income to high income:

Federal employees whose compensation averages more than $126,000 and the nation's greatest concentration of lawyers helped Washington edge out

The U.S. capital has swapped top spots with Silicon Valley, according to recent Census Bureau figures, with the typical household in the Washington metro area earning $84,523 last year. The national median income for 2010 was $50,046.
 
2012-12-31 02:43:53 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: That said, fark compromise. The republicans want something from a position of nothing after spending four years of doing nothing. Fark those guys right in the nostril. Americans spoke about what they want and it's nothing that the republicans are offering. They can either put on some big boy pants, suck it up and do what the country wants done or they can focus on driving themselves even deeper into obscurity.


For two of the aforementioned four years, the democrats were in charge of the house.  They were also in charge of the Senate.  And for one of those years, they had a filibuster proof majority when you added the left leaning independents that caucused with the democrats.

Then, two years ago, the republicans took over the house.

Prior to that, the democrats:

dated the sunset of the Bush tax cuts for tomorrow

dated the sunset of the payroll withholding tomorrow

dated the implementation of the Obamacare tax hikes tomorrow

The only thing the republicans have done (with the cooperation of the democrats) is date the mandatory spending cuts

/the more you know
 
2012-12-31 02:44:05 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: Tough to do but I'm listening.


Me too. I meant what I said; it would be tough to pull off! Imagine what a nightmare that would be for anyone involved with processing tax returns!
 
2012-12-31 02:44:15 PM  

ChuDogg: Personally I'm rooting for the fiscal cliff.


Indeed. America needs a bucket of cold fish thrown at its collective wallet, and has since 2008 or maybe 1999.
 
2012-12-31 02:44:19 PM  
I don't believe it. Going off of the cliff is what needs to happen, and both parties get to point the finger at the other. Besides, Obama has vowed to veto any proposal that makes a lick of sense.
 
2012-12-31 02:44:26 PM  

SDRR: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Paying taxes is being penalized?


To idiots it is.
 
2012-12-31 02:44:31 PM  
Rumors are that it will be Clinton-era tax rates for individuals making $400k+ and couples making $450k+. Liberals like me wont be thrilled with giving up the $250k threshold, but it's still a tax increase -- it will be very interesting to see if Boehner can get the Republican Clown-shoes in the House to vote for a tax increase. Grover Nord-whatever's head will explode.

With Obama hitting the talk shows and all of the press over the weekend and today, if it fails to pass in the house, Boehner is done. The big story will be that Obama compromised and risked pissing off a lot of Dems, and the Republicans still wouldn't budge.
 
2012-12-31 02:44:37 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


You can always give away your money so you only earned $249,999

*eyeroll*
 
2012-12-31 02:44:38 PM  

david_gaithersburg: You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.


Sounds like a great place to  start raising taxes at, then.
 
2012-12-31 02:44:39 PM  

david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.


I live in Los Angeles in a relatively upscale area. Still have no problem with $250k.
 
2012-12-31 02:44:40 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


It's not a penalty. It's your civic duty. You are doing better than the vast majority of Americans. Stop whining.
 
2012-12-31 02:45:40 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: 400/450k cutoff now? I wonder how much nothing Dems got in return for that bullshiat.


I wonder what budget cuts* the Dems agreed to (if any) to get a yes from the house?

/*not counting trust-fund programs like ss and medicare
//hoping the DoD, Farm Bill, and other corporate welfare get chopped.
///artificial deadlines make a great excuse for last minute secret legislation. Expect it again and again.
 
2012-12-31 02:45:42 PM  

Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.


household debt is very different from nat'l debt
 
2012-12-31 02:45:47 PM  
Ya know, if there was a provision in the Constitution that said that one Congress couldn't impose limits on a future Congress (Much like the British Parliament), this whole thing would have been avoided.
 
2012-12-31 02:45:50 PM  

david_gaithersburg: Besides, Obama has vowed to veto any proposal that makes a lick of sense.


Because if anyone has proposed something that makes a lick of sense, it's the Republicans.

/hard to type that with a straight face
 
2012-12-31 02:45:52 PM  

Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.


You should have said something BEFORE we started two land wars in Asia and simultaneously cut rich people's taxes.
 
2012-12-31 02:46:15 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: They wrote some budgets, and yet we do not have a budget. Weird.

When the Democrat-led Senate keeps rejecting your budget plan, you compromise with them.You DON'T double down on stupidity.


When the Democrat-led Senate wants a budget, they'll get a budget. They do not want a budget.

So is that why the GOP led House sends them budget plans that are nothing more than partisan wankery instead of something serious?


They send what their constituents demand, and the Senate hasn't taken the problem seriously at all. Who's the boss if not the people the House is representing? You?
 
2012-12-31 02:46:17 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: 400/450k cutoff now? I wonder how much nothing Dems got in return for that bullshiat.


the unemployment extension

it's a bad compromise imo. it does nothing to cut the deficit. there's not enough people making 450k and up to make a dent in it at a meager 3% increase. most of those folks are making it from capital gains anyway.
 
2012-12-31 02:46:34 PM  
but, if it comes out and sees its shadow, does that mean we'll have 6 more
weeks of listening to them complain how it's ______(insert party) fault?
 
2012-12-31 02:46:43 PM  

stratagos: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Grow up. $250k is the top 2% of wage earners, not "moderately successful"

Or to be specific, if you consider yourself moderately successful, think of how the people making 20% of your income have to deal with


Seriously. I know families of four who have to make it on $20K since the recession. Anyone who's making $250K and thinks they can't afford to have taxes go back to the pre-Bush-tax-cut levels is either delusional or living way beyond their means. Yes, even if they live in NYC or San Francisco. This isn't about "punishment", it's about the reality of paying for two f*cking wars after lowering taxes to unrealistic levels for so long.
 
2012-12-31 02:46:47 PM  

enry: You can always give away your money so you only earned $249,999


Yeah, wouldn't want that last buck to make your taxes jump.

/If this is what you think, hire a goddamn accountant.
//If he lets you continue thinking that, fire him and hire a competent goddamn accountant.
 
2012-12-31 02:46:58 PM  

sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx


Is this AGI or taxable income?  This is important.
 
2012-12-31 02:47:04 PM  

Mrtraveler01: SDRR: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Paying taxes is being penalized?

To idiots it is.


THIS.
 
2012-12-31 02:47:18 PM  

Mrtraveler01: david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.

Yeah no, 250K is not low middle income, it's more like high middle income to high income:

Federal employees whose compensation averages more than $126,000 and the nation's greatest concentration of lawyers helped Washington edge out

The U.S. capital has swapped top spots with Silicon Valley, according to recent Census Bureau figures, with the typical household in the Washington metro area earning $84,523 last year. The national median income for 2010 was $50,046.


Source:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-19/beltway-earnings-make-u-s-c ap ital-richer-than-silicon-valley.html

Anyone who thinks that 250K is Middle Income is an idiot regardless of where you live.
 
2012-12-31 02:47:46 PM  
It's a good thing that tonight is New Year's Eve that way the Republicans can say that they're drinking because of the holidays, And not because they've been made out to look like idiots again.
 
2012-12-31 02:48:04 PM  

david_gaithersburg: $250k is low middle income in the DC region.


Not even close. DC is expensive, but 2 people making $50k each is perfectly fine. I've done it for less.
 
2012-12-31 02:48:16 PM  

david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.


While certainly not rich, don't lie and call it low there either. That's on the upper middle class side of things even around there to be sure. Sorry if you moved to Potomac, MD and you "feel" poor, but you don't get to say it's not a lot of money because you don't have any left after spending it all on expensive things.
 
2012-12-31 02:48:22 PM  

Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.


Many responsible Americans would work some overtime or get another job to increase the household income.
 
2012-12-31 02:48:26 PM  

lenfromak: Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Since when are taxes considered a penalty? Is jury duty a punishment too?
 
2012-12-31 02:48:45 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


You still get the same tax breaks everybody else does.  There's no "penalty" at all.

/marginal rates
//how do they work?
 
2012-12-31 02:48:55 PM  

david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.


I lived in Gaithersburg for two years. 250K = "middle class" is absolute horseshiat.
 
2012-12-31 02:49:00 PM  
450k! Sweet! The triple $200 1 oz pour friday night scotch is still in the budget baby!
 
2012-12-31 02:49:03 PM  
Talk to me when there's an actual deal. I'm more inclined to think this is Obama just trying to use a bit of the massive amounts of leverage he has here.
 
2012-12-31 02:49:04 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Yeah no, 250K is not low middle income, it's more like high middle income to high income



THIS. People acting like $250k per year isn't much are idiots. I don't care where you live, that's a lot of dough. I live in LA in an expensive neighborhood, and I feel pretty well-off with my $100k per year. Get some f*cking perspective. If you want to move to Iowa where your $250k per year can buy you a castle, YOU ARE FREE TO DO THAT.
 
2012-12-31 02:49:36 PM  

Pincy: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

It's not a penalty. It's your civic duty. You are doing better than the vast majority of Americans. Stop whining.


They can't do it. Greed is good in their world. And they want more. And they don't give a crap if the place crumbles around them- just as long as they get theirs.
 
2012-12-31 02:49:41 PM  

Wangiss: They send what their constituents demand, and the Senate hasn't taken the problem seriously at all.


Neither has the House or else the Senate wouldn't be rejecting all of the budget plans the GOP House pulls from their ass.

The constituents want compromise, not a pure Conservative agenda. Heck, the Dems won the House election but the GOP only managed to maintain their majority due to gerrymandering. If they did, the GOP would have the Senate as well in addition to Romney being elected President.
 
2012-12-31 02:50:11 PM  
"The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.
 
2012-12-31 02:50:26 PM  
Sure. By 'deal' you mean he's running out the clock on the GOP so he can look like the good guy. Still gets tax increases for the wealthy. I guess we'll see which government programs get cut, and which social programs get the Robin Hood treatment.
 
2012-12-31 02:50:30 PM  
I can't believe that somebody thought it was a good idea for Obama to go on TV and crack jokes to an audience of the middle class.
 
2012-12-31 02:50:45 PM  

EnviroDude: For two of the aforementioned four years, the democrats were in charge of the house. They were also in charge of the Senate. And for one of those years, they had a filibuster proof majority when you added the left leaning independents that caucused with the democrats.

Then, two years ago, the republicans took over the house.

Prior to that, the democrats:

dated the sunset of the Bush tax cuts for tomorrow

dated the sunset of the payroll withholding tomorrow

dated the implementation of the Obamacare tax hikes tomorrow

The only thing the republicans have done (with the cooperation of the democrats) is date the mandatory spending cuts

/the more you know


I'm okay with all those things and I'm unclear exactly what you're point is anyway.
 
2012-12-31 02:51:08 PM  

Lupine Chemist: david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.

While certainly not rich, don't lie and call it low there either. That's on the upper middle class side of things even around there to be sure. Sorry if you moved to Potomac, MD and you "feel" poor, but you don't get to say it's not a lot of money because you don't have any left after spending it all on expensive things.


.
The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.
 
2012-12-31 02:51:09 PM  

Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.


One thing Americans can do to live within their means is to not have more children than they can afford. The government can discourage this by penalizing people who have more than 2 children.
 
2012-12-31 02:51:20 PM  
Joseph Weisenthal @TheStalwart

MCCONNELL: WE'VE REACHED AN AGREEMENT ON ALL OF THE TAX ISSUES
 
2012-12-31 02:51:35 PM  

david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.


As someone working and living in NW DC on 40k a year while my wife finishes up a Masters, I would like to point out you're full of curseword.

For every person in DC making 100k or more, there's ten people trying to make it off of less than 30k. But keep living in your bubble.
 
2012-12-31 02:52:03 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Okay, I hear your plight. Tell you what, we won't penalize you. We'll give you the same tax cuts as everyone else making $250k or less. I think we can compromise on that. Call your (R) congresspeople, I'll call my (D) ones to let them know.

Deal?
 
2012-12-31 02:52:16 PM  
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-12-31 02:52:22 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

One thing Americans can do to live within their means is to not have more children than they can afford. The government can discourage this by penalizing people who have more than 2 children.


Newsletter?

Seriously, stop giving tax breaks for having kids.
 
2012-12-31 02:52:28 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here


You know what's also different in Iowa vs. NYC? The salaries.

Deal with it.
 
2012-12-31 02:52:32 PM  
Rebecca Berg @rebeccagberg

"Let's pass the tax relief portion now," McConnell says.


In other words: Let's do this thing that I want to do now and we'll do that thing you wanted later.
 
2012-12-31 02:52:43 PM  

Lupine Chemist: Shrugging Atlas: 400/450k cutoff now? I wonder how much nothing Dems got in return for that bullshiat.

Breaking GOP orthodoxy and undoing chained SS COLA is your definition of nothing?


Correct, since if we went off the cliff that would not happen and the GOP woul dhave to pass it (not likely). Unfortunately the GOP has gotten Obama to negotiate against himself again, although not as badly as before.

I honestly wish he'd stuck to his guns, but I get the need for something in place before markets open. Also before people get first paycheck, which will be as early as Friday.
 
2012-12-31 02:53:23 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

Many responsible Americans would work some overtime or get another job to increase the household income.

.
You sound racist.
 
2012-12-31 02:53:32 PM  

david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


No. With an income of $250,000 per year you can afford something called a "car" or "subway tokens" and can commute from somewhere cheaper. Sorry, you're still wrong.
 
2012-12-31 02:53:55 PM  

Pincy: Britney Spear's Speculum: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

One thing Americans can do to live within their means is to not have more children than they can afford. The government can discourage this by penalizing people who have more than 2 children.

Newsletter?

Seriously, stop giving tax breaks for having kids.


With an exemption for people who have twins when they already have one kid, and for people who have triplets. Cause that just wouldn't be fair.
 
2012-12-31 02:54:03 PM  

Gosling: Talk to me when there's an actual deal. I'm more inclined to think this is Obama just trying to use a bit of the massive amounts of leverage he has here.


Wouldn't surprise me if that's the case.
 
2012-12-31 02:54:09 PM  

Pincy: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

It's not a penalty. It's your civic duty. You are doing better than the vast majority of Americans. Stop whining.


Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!
 
2012-12-31 02:54:22 PM  
Eliminate dependent deductions. Don't lower rates for having children, charge extra, they use more services.

/obviously childless
//mostly joking
 
2012-12-31 02:54:22 PM  

DamnYankees: That's nonsense. Deciding to live in expensive cities IS CONSUMPTION. You are actively choosing to live in a place which gets you certain benefits. It's no different than any other kind of consumption. The idea of adjusting tax rates for that would simply be a massive subsidy towards a certain type of consumption.


There are many places where $100k is quite wealthy.
 
2012-12-31 02:54:50 PM  

incendi: jigger: Well, except for the Choom Gang. Good luck on your marijuana charges, citizen.

It's a double negative, we're good here. To be frank, the legal code is such a mess that pretty much everybody has never not broken any law.


Well, it was poorly stated by the statesman, but if you say it like this, "not only has he never broken any law," then it's not a double negative.
 
2012-12-31 02:55:00 PM  

GoldSpider: DamnYankees: That's nonsense. Deciding to live in expensive cities IS CONSUMPTION. You are actively choosing to live in a place which gets you certain benefits. It's no different than any other kind of consumption. The idea of adjusting tax rates for that would simply be a massive subsidy towards a certain type of consumption.

There are many places where $100k is quite wealthy.


In every place 100K is quite wealthy. That's the point.
 
2012-12-31 02:55:14 PM  

david_gaithersburg: Lupine Chemist: david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.

While certainly not rich, don't lie and call it low there either. That's on the upper middle class side of things even around there to be sure. Sorry if you moved to Potomac, MD and you "feel" poor, but you don't get to say it's not a lot of money because you don't have any left after spending it all on expensive things.

.
The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


Good point. The median American income is $300,000 per year.
 
2012-12-31 02:55:19 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: They send what their constituents demand, and the Senate hasn't taken the problem seriously at all.

Neither has the House or else the Senate wouldn't be rejecting all of the budget plans the GOP House pulls from their ass.

The constituents want compromise, not a pure Conservative agenda. Heck, the Dems won the House election but the GOP only managed to maintain their majority due to gerrymandering. If they did, the GOP would have the Senate as well in addition to Romney being elected President.


They didn't pass a budget when they had the whole Hill. They haven't made it a thrust of their party in four years. There's nothing wrong in a Washington mindset with not having a budget at all, or we'd have one. All the strong-arming that's happened in the last four years has been for other stuff. It's just not a priority.

So you know, I'm not a Republican. I'm a progressive minarchist, so there's no sizable party for me in America. But I, like most Americans outside the Beltway, think we should have a budget. And I think it could happen if that's what Washington really wanted.
 
2012-12-31 02:55:23 PM  

Cataholic: Pincy: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

It's not a penalty. It's your civic duty. You are doing better than the vast majority of Americans. Stop whining.

Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!


Oh noes, they want to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans back to the same rate it was a few decades ago!!! Surely this will mean the end of civilized society as we know it.
 
2012-12-31 02:55:30 PM  

sonnyboy11: Gosling: Talk to me when there's an actual deal. I'm more inclined to think this is Obama just trying to use a bit of the massive amounts of leverage he has here.

Wouldn't surprise me if that's the case.


@ethanklapper: McConnell: "I can report we've reached an agreement on all the tax issues. We are very, very close."
 
2012-12-31 02:55:41 PM  

Pincy: Newsletter?

Seriously, stop giving tax breaks for having kids.


Here's a good rule of thumb: if you still live in your parent's house (exception being having moved out, gotten a job, had children then you or your S/O got laid off and you have to move back in with them), then you can't afford to have children.
 
2012-12-31 02:55:48 PM  

david_gaithersburg: Uranus Is Huge!: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

Many responsible Americans would work some overtime or get another job to increase the household income.
.
You sound racist.


So true. I've never heard of a minority holding down more than one job to make ends meet.

You fail at humanity.
 
2012-12-31 02:56:10 PM  

david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.



And the cheapest house on Carbon Beach in Malibu is $10M. Won't somebody please think of the "lower middle-class" millionaires living on Carbon Beach? It's a stupid argument. $250k/year is a shiatload of money. I live better than most people I know, in an expensive city, and I make less than half that.
 
2012-12-31 02:56:12 PM  
The median income for the DC, Arlington, and Alexandria metro area in 2011 was 86k per household, 112k average per household, per the American Community Survey.

The NY, Northern NJ, and Long Island metro median income was 62k (91k average), per household.

I just wanted some data thrown in the discussion before we start arguing if 250k, 400k, etc. is a lot of money.
 
2012-12-31 02:56:25 PM  
Joseph Weisenthal @TheStalwart

Now Corker says the President is holding the deal hostage.
 
2012-12-31 02:56:28 PM  
Emerging you say...

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-31 02:56:43 PM  

rotsky: Is this AGI or taxable income? This is important.


I've heard it reported as taxable income, and the rate would only rise for taxable income ABOVE the decided-upon threshold, in keeping with the marginal approach to tax bracketing. In fact, I heard a detailed story on how the administration was actually planning their bid to have an AGI cut-off around $290K to be damn certain that no one with a taxable income below $250K would see a bit of increase.

INeedAName: You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.

As someone working and living in NW DC on 40k a year while my wife finishes up a Masters, I would like to point out you're full of curseword.


Indeed. This is horse curseword.
 
2012-12-31 02:56:48 PM  
McConnell went Galt at the last minute?
 
2012-12-31 02:56:57 PM  
As Grandpa used to say, hope in one hand and shiat in the other.
 
2012-12-31 02:56:59 PM  

david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


The cheapest Trump Tower penthouse is like $15 million. So for people who live in the penthouse of Trump Tower, $250k is pretty much broke.
 
2012-12-31 02:57:01 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.


I'm not wealthy but I invest in the market, as does most everyone I know to some degree. Raising the taxes by 33% will affect future decisions and investments.
 
2012-12-31 02:57:09 PM  
Holy fark my first greenlight. Poop jokes and politics for the win.
 
2012-12-31 02:57:12 PM  

DamnYankees: In every place 100K is quite wealthy. That's the point.


Nah, it's relatively high income. You can have that income, be an idiot with your money, and never achieve wealthiness.
 
2012-12-31 02:57:26 PM  

ChuDogg: Personally I'm rooting for the fiscal cliff.


Yeah, it's a bit short-sighted of me, but I was kind of thinking that, too. Why? Because I wanted the Republicans to have to sit in the middle of the horror that they created and be able to scream at them, "This is what a budget cut looks like, you assholes!"

I've probably mentioned this before, but the Fiscal Cliff would leave a $70 million budget gap in our state. Suddenly our Tea-Partying governor doesn't think budget cuts are such a good idea anymore, and when pinned down by reporters, starts squirming like a bug.
 
2012-12-31 02:57:34 PM  
Taxes aren't a penalty? WTF is the Obamandate about? How is that enforced? What do they call the tax you are charged for non-compliance? They call it "the penalty."
 
2012-12-31 02:57:41 PM  

david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


Not being able to finance a house on less than a years salary != poor!
 
2012-12-31 02:57:54 PM  

Bontesla: Joseph Weisenthal @TheStalwart

Now Corker says the President is holding the deal hostage.


He's talking right now.

CSPAN Video
 
2012-12-31 02:58:05 PM  

Betrayal_By_Tyrannosaur: Holy fark my first greenlight. Poop jokes and politics for the win.


Congratulations! :)
It's on fire.
 
2012-12-31 02:58:15 PM  
Jack up the rates on capital gains, put a micro-tax on stock transactions, colonize Saturn.
 
2012-12-31 02:58:22 PM  

vernonFL: RIP Cliff

[userserve-ak.last.fm image 500x322]


Good lord. That was 26 years ago.
 
2012-12-31 02:58:30 PM  

incendi: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.

No. With an income of $250,000 per year you can afford something called a "car" or "subway tokens" and can commute from somewhere cheaper. Sorry, you're still wrong.


Clearly, you've never been to Montgomery County or tried to commute in any of the surrounding areas, because "subway tokens" would only be useful for a five dollar footlong, and "anywhere cheaper" means a four-hour daily commute.
 
2012-12-31 02:58:38 PM  

jfivealive: With an exemption for people who have twins when they already have one kid, and for people who have triplets. Cause that just wouldn't be fair.


Of course. But governments should regulate how many eggs get implanted with IVF (people having 4 children because they don't want to abort etc..) The point of IVF is to have 1 healthy child. Not 4 sick little bastards. Good luck with that one though.
 
2012-12-31 02:58:39 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


HOW IN THE HELL is paying LESS then the taxes you paid in the last war "Penalize"?

you just showed us all why we hate conservative american-hating douchebags. Go do your part - and when it's too much.. you'll know you're finally being honorable.
 
2012-12-31 02:58:59 PM  
Rebecca Berg @rebeccagberg

In House, Dems holding off judgment 'til Senate votes. "I assume there's liberal angst, but just haven't done whip counts yet," aide says.
 
2012-12-31 02:59:04 PM  
I wish that it were possible to have an intelligent, adult conversation about taxation.

The reality is that the income tax rates that people are paying today are at historic lows. You would have to go back to before the outbreak of World War II to find a point in time when tax rates are lower than what they are today. The only exception to this is a brief period in the 1980s when the very highest tax rate was dropped to 29%, but that didn't last long. Tax rates are so low, and so many deductions and exemptions exists that nearly half of American households have no income tax burden at all.

Yet you have a significant number of Americans how scream about how taxation is theft and that their taxes have never been higher. This is idiocy. This is drooling, mind-numbing, kiddy-diddling idiocy. And it's even worse when you consider that most of the "taxation is theft" people are the very first to scream about how we need to invade Insert Brown-Peopled Country Here and complain when their disability checks to cover their Rascal scooters don't show up on time.

Taxes are too low, period. I know people don't like paying them. It would be great if all of the benefits of a modern First World democracy could just be Jesused into existence. But this isn't Fantasyland, and the "anti-tax movement" in America has reached a pinnacle of stupidity; these folks and their families deserve to be openly and ceaselessly mocked.
 
2012-12-31 02:59:17 PM  

Brick-House: Emerging you say...

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 288x360]



You shouldn't post personal information like your picture online.
 
2012-12-31 02:59:17 PM  

incendi: enry: You can always give away your money so you only earned $249,999

Yeah, wouldn't want that last buck to make your taxes jump.

/If this is what you think, hire a goddamn accountant.
//If he lets you continue thinking that, fire him and hire a competent goddamn accountant.


You're replying to the wrong person. I know how taxes work, and I don't even play a CPA on TV.
 
2012-12-31 02:59:19 PM  

Bontesla: @ethanklapper: McConnell: "I can report we've reached an agreement on all the tax issues. We are very, very close."


And that's McConnell. Words. Again, call me when there's a vote.
 
2012-12-31 02:59:21 PM  

Cataholic:

Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!


Do what we say and enjoy the bread and milk we pay you for it!
 
2012-12-31 02:59:26 PM  

DamnYankees: In every place 100K is quite wealthy. That's the point.


Dare I ask where you think the highest bracket should start?
 
2012-12-31 02:59:28 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


And the cheapest house on Carbon Beach in Malibu is $10M. Won't somebody please think of the "lower middle-class" millionaires living on Carbon Beach? It's a stupid argument. $250k/year is a shiatload of money. I live better than most people I know, in an expensive city, and I make less than half that.


I am not entirely sure why we keep engaging this guy. His math is pretty indicative of the brainfarts of a mongoloid. Because your average mongoloid thinks that the DC region should be the litmus test for tax rates.
 
2012-12-31 02:59:47 PM  

Pincy: Britney Spear's Speculum: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

One thing Americans can do to live within their means is to not have more children than they can afford. The government can discourage this by penalizing people who have more than 2 children.

Newsletter?

Seriously, stop giving tax breaks for having kids.


I have four children and I endorse this message. Please also stop the corn subsidies and the oil subsidies, the killing middle-easterners subsidies, and possibly everything else including Scientific Research. But STOP TAKING THE MONEY as well. We just don't need to do it. If they'd stop taking so much, my state could afford to tax me more and provide the services I actually care about, like emergency services and education.
 
2012-12-31 03:00:09 PM  
This goes on of two ways:

1. Obama announces they have a deal, Dems complain that he's gone too far to compromise... and then the House GOP still votes against it. Obama wins. There's no way anyone can sanely argue that Obama didn't give enough.

2. This actually passes and the House GOP votes in favor of tax increases, and their supporters grab the pitchforks and fire up their "2nd Amendment Remedies" machine.
 
2012-12-31 03:00:13 PM  

meddleRPI: incendi: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.

No. With an income of $250,000 per year you can afford something called a "car" or "subway tokens" and can commute from somewhere cheaper. Sorry, you're still wrong.

Clearly, you've never been to Montgomery County or tried to commute in any of the surrounding areas, because "subway tokens" would only be useful for a five dollar footlong, and "anywhere cheaper" means a four-hour daily commute.


Come on, you can get a house in the hood somewhere in PG county for $200k, including the bars on the windows.
 
2012-12-31 03:00:23 PM  

CruJones: I'm not wealthy but I invest in the market, as does most everyone I know to some degree. Raising the taxes by 33% will affect future decisions and investments.


Yes it will. It will make people risk adverse, and limit wild speculation that causes bubbles and crashes.

That's a good thing.
 
2012-12-31 03:00:30 PM  
 
2012-12-31 03:00:50 PM  
Whoa. Just heard that Kim Kardashian is knocked up. So, what were we talking about here, again?
 
2012-12-31 03:01:01 PM  
"Fiscal Cliff" is just political propaganda for avoiding enforcing tax-payer responsibility so as not to be perceived as the bad guy tax-man.

It's an attempt to keep TODAY's voters from feeling the burden of the existing (and former) expensive wars, departments and programs.

So really, it's just a play to try to retain political power. (And it's not ONE party's doing either, it's politics in general.)

If people would just realize how much it cost them individually for all the wars, TSA and all the other BS programs where the government oversteps it's bounds, then no one would back them.

But in the end when you pay for something on CREDIT, the bill EVENTUALLY MUST be paid.
 
2012-12-31 03:01:35 PM  

Bontesla: Market reacts to possible deal


Exxon took a hit yesterday so it looked like a deal, shooting right back now
 
2012-12-31 03:01:36 PM  

enry: You're replying to the wrong person. I know how taxes work, and I don't even play a CPA on TV.


Those are general "you"s, not you in particular. You made your understanding clear.
 
2012-12-31 03:01:40 PM  
Or this could be a tactic to say afterword, if this fails, that he was ready to agree and the GOP backed out.

/I always bet on cynical
 
2012-12-31 03:01:42 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: This goes on of two ways:

1. Obama announces they have a deal, Dems complain that he's gone too far to compromise... and then the House GOP still votes against it. Obama wins. There's no way anyone can sanely argue that Obama didn't give enough.

2. This actually passes and the House GOP votes in favor of tax increases, and their supporters grab the pitchforks and fire up their "2nd Amendment Remedies" machine.


Yeah, which means a bunch of hicks with rifles and yellow snake flags shouting retarded rhetoric in a Southern Drawl. 2009 called and it wants its "civic action" back.
 
2012-12-31 03:02:01 PM  

Pincy: Cataholic: Pincy: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

It's not a penalty. It's your civic duty. You are doing better than the vast majority of Americans. Stop whining.

Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

Oh noes, they want to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans back to the same rate it was a few decades ago!!! Surely this will mean the end of civilized society as we know it.


But it would be if we cut spending back to those days, amirite?
 
2012-12-31 03:02:06 PM  

incendi: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.

No. With an income of $250,000 per year you can afford something called a "car" or "subway tokens" and can commute from somewhere cheaper. Sorry, you're still wrong.


Even without that - at $250k a house costing $750k is only 3x your annual salary and should be easily affordable even without the historically low interest rates. With lending rates at under 4% a $1million house is well within reach and will get you a nice pad almost anywhere in the DC metro area, and then you also get a $40k itemized deductable.
 
2012-12-31 03:02:08 PM  
I see they may have agreed on what kind of polish to use on the brass fixtures of the Titanic?  Oh, goody for them.
 
2012-12-31 03:02:11 PM  
GOP sources admitted there is an added benefit to the Senate's delay: taxes would already be up, so lawmakers could argue that they are voting for tax cuts, as opposed to tax increases.

Jebuz H. Christopher.
 
2012-12-31 03:02:29 PM  

incendi: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.

No. With an income of $250,000 per year you can afford something called a "car" or "subway tokens" and can commute from somewhere cheaper. Sorry, you're still wrong.


Yes. A crumbling infrastructure with less money to repair and you want to put more cars on the road.

Brilliant!

/"liberal thinking": an oxymoron if there ever was one
 
2012-12-31 03:03:03 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Yeah... I admit, I sort of want to see what would happen. A halving of the deficit triggered by partisan dickery and an inability to make compromises? That's some popcorn politics.


If only that didn't come with a supersize side of throwing-the-economy-back-into-the-shiatter, I'd join you.
 
2012-12-31 03:03:34 PM  
What a show these guys are putting on.
 
2012-12-31 03:03:53 PM  

CruJones: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.

I'm not wealthy but I invest in the market, as does most everyone I know to some degree. Raising the taxes by 33% will affect future decisions and investments.


You'll stop investing in stocks you think will return a profit?
 
2012-12-31 03:03:59 PM  

peterthx: incendi: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.

No. With an income of $250,000 per year you can afford something called a "car" or "subway tokens" and can commute from somewhere cheaper. Sorry, you're still wrong.

Yes. A crumbling infrastructure with less money to repair and you want to put more cars on the road.

Brilliant!

/"liberal thinking": an oxymoron if there ever was one


DC has a kick-ass metro system.
 
2012-12-31 03:04:04 PM  

Bontesla: Market reacts to possible deal


Up 148 points right now.
 
2012-12-31 03:04:06 PM  
..of the closet

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-31 03:04:13 PM  

Cataholic: Pincy: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

It's not a penalty. It's your civic duty. You are doing better than the vast majority of Americans. Stop whining.

Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!


The taxes for the first $250k of income are exactly the same, regardless whether you make more than that or not.  Nobody is being asked or forced to give any more than anybody else up to that point, so nobody can claim any sort of "pain/hurt" at all.  Living in slightly less luxury is not pain (and by "slightly less" I mean "having to wait for that 84" UHDTV to drop in price by $2k, which will happen in ten months or so").

/marginal rates
//how do they work?
 
2012-12-31 03:04:19 PM  
assets.diylol.com
 
2012-12-31 03:04:23 PM  

coeyagi: Yeah, which means a bunch of hicks with rifles and yellow snake flags shouting retarded rhetoric in a Southern Drawl. 2009 called and it wants its "civic action" back.


Actually, it seems to be taking the form of shooting up Sikh temples and pushing Indians in front of subway trains. Hicks don't really care who they are revenge-killing so long as they have brown skin and don't talk like Muricans.
 
2012-12-31 03:04:25 PM  
As usual, the definition of "rich" is "people who make more money than *I* do."
 
2012-12-31 03:04:41 PM  

coeyagi: Yeah, which means a bunch of hicks with rifles and yellow snake flags shouting retarded rhetoric in a Southern Drawl.



...While dressed as Revolutionary War reenactors.
 
2012-12-31 03:04:45 PM  

Bontesla: Betrayal_By_Tyrannosaur: Holy fark my first greenlight. Poop jokes and politics for the win.

Congratulations! :)
It's on fire.


a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com
 
2012-12-31 03:05:51 PM  

peterthx: incendi: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.

No. With an income of $250,000 per year you can afford something called a "car" or "subway tokens" and can commute from somewhere cheaper. Sorry, you're still wrong.

Yes. A crumbling infrastructure with less money to repair and you want to put more cars on the road.

Brilliant!

/"liberal thinking": an oxymoron if there ever was one


Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo.

Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.
 
2012-12-31 03:05:55 PM  
Wow you guys.

www.reactiongifs.com
 
2012-12-31 03:06:03 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: This goes on of two ways:

1. Obama announces they have a deal, Dems complain that he's gone too far to compromise... and then the House GOP still votes against it. Obama wins. There's no way anyone can sanely argue that Obama didn't give enough.

2. This actually passes and the House GOP votes in favor of tax increases, and their supporters grab the pitchforks and fire up their "2nd Amendment Remedies" machine.


3. The President and the Congress do what is right for the country and replaces the tax code with a system of income credits, which reimburse job creators for every dollar that they make.  The Freedom Index raises to its highest point since the Reagan administration.  Taxbongo cries at the thought that his policies have benefited the country and immediately resigns.
 
2012-12-31 03:06:12 PM  

Brick-House: Emerging you say...

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 288x360]



An ass ass?
 
2012-12-31 03:06:25 PM  

coeyagi: Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here

You know what's also different in Iowa vs. NYC? The salaries.

Deal with it.

24.media.tumblr.com


/Iowan
//If I moved to Chicago, my salary would triple.
 
2012-12-31 03:06:27 PM  

seventypercent: Yet you have a significant number of Americans how scream about how taxation is theft and that their taxes have never been higher. This is idiocy. This is drooling, mind-numbing, kiddy-diddling idiocy. And it's even worse when you consider that most of the "taxation is theft" people are the very first to scream about how we need to invade Insert Brown-Peopled Country Here and complain when their disability checks to cover their Rascal scooters don't show up on time.


What I perceive is that a lot of people think that nothing the government has ever done has benefited them, and thus the debt is not "theirs" to pay down. I make nowhere NEAR $250K with my wife tacked on, and yet I would have accepted a tax increase. Why? Because we do have an unsustainably high deficit, a very large debt, and need to pay for our wars and the tax cuts that we've all enjoyed over the last decade. Federal services haven't diminished; we're all still benefiting at the same or greater levels (even if services like the TSA seem like a real kick in the teeth).

If all the Bush-Obama tax cuts disappeared tomorrow, it would hurt but it was the sequestration that I'm fearing. I'd rather pay 4% higher taxes than have no job.
 
2012-12-31 03:06:31 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: They wrote some budgets, and yet we do not have a budget. Weird.

When the Democrat-led Senate keeps rejecting your budget plan, you compromise with them.You DON'T double down on stupidity.


When the Democrat-led Senate wants a budget, they'll get a budget. They do not want a budget.

So is that why the GOP led House sends them budget plans that are nothing more than partisan wankery instead of something serious?


Hmm, didn't Obama send the Senate a budget the last two years that they unanimously rejected?

I think they don't want one as it hinders their ability to spend.
 
2012-12-31 03:06:47 PM  

Wangiss: Pincy: Cataholic: Pincy: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

It's not a penalty. It's your civic duty. You are doing better than the vast majority of Americans. Stop whining.

Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

Oh noes, they want to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans back to the same rate it was a few decades ago!!! Surely this will mean the end of civilized society as we know it.

But it would be if we cut spending back to those days, amirite?


Depends on if you cut back military spending, amirite?
 
2012-12-31 03:07:12 PM  

Stoj: GOP sources admitted there is an added benefit to the Senate's delay: taxes would already be up, so lawmakers could argue that they are voting for tax cuts, as opposed to tax increases.

Jebuz H. Christopher.


We are a nation taken hostage by these monsters.
 
2012-12-31 03:07:25 PM  

PanicMan: peterthx: incendi: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.

No. With an income of $250,000 per year you can afford something called a "car" or "subway tokens" and can commute from somewhere cheaper. Sorry, you're still wrong.

Yes. A crumbling infrastructure with less money to repair and you want to put more cars on the road.

Brilliant!

/"liberal thinking": an oxymoron if there ever was one

DC has a kick-ass metro system.


The left side of those escalators is a great place just to stand and take in the view.
 
2012-12-31 03:07:29 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: With Obama hitting the talk shows and all of the press over the weekend and today, if it fails to pass in the house, Boehner is done. The big story will be that Obama compromised and risked pissing off a lot of Dems, and the Republicans still wouldn't budge.


I think this is the same situation as before.  Obama has no faith in the House GOP to pass a bill, so he's willing to compromise.  If it passes, he takes a bit of heat from liberals but can claim a victory in forcing the GOP to accept a tax increase.  If it fails, he gets what he wanted in the first place and can blame the GOP for taking us off the cliff.
 
2012-12-31 03:07:44 PM  
img.youtube.com
 
2012-12-31 03:08:09 PM  

Saturn5: As usual, the definition of "rich" is "people who make more money than *I* do."

the top 2%. That's who we're talking about raising taxes on. It's pretty easy to see the top 2% of earners in the US as the "rich."
 
2012-12-31 03:08:38 PM  

Jake Steed: STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.


It takes years and years to stop a single aircraft engine the Bush and Obama militaries don't even want. Why would any of this be simple?
 
2012-12-31 03:08:40 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Never, in the history of the internet, has this image been more appropriate:
i303.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-31 03:08:41 PM  
Obama offered a $400k threshold 2 weeks ago.

its $1.2 trillion in new revenue, excluding the payroll tax hike (another trillion) and estate tax hike, and the additional tax hikes that are part of Obamacare.
 
2012-12-31 03:09:04 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.


I haven't heard anything touching this, so I would assume that this is still slotted to go up to 20%.
 
2012-12-31 03:09:15 PM  
Is it bad I read that in Jon Stewart's voice?
 
2012-12-31 03:09:18 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

You should have said something BEFORE we started two land wars in Asia and simultaneously cut rich people's taxes.


Yeah!

Damn Fartbongo and his magic time machine for doing that to us!
 
2012-12-31 03:09:32 PM  

Kuroshin: marginal rates
//how do they work?


No kidding... I often wonder how people so stupid manage to make so much.
 
2012-12-31 03:09:52 PM  

djkutch: Wangiss: Pincy: Cataholic: Pincy: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

It's not a penalty. It's your civic duty. You are doing better than the vast majority of Americans. Stop whining.

Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

Oh noes, they want to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans back to the same rate it was a few decades ago!!! Surely this will mean the end of civilized society as we know it.

But it would be if we cut spending back to those days, amirite?

Depends on if you cut back military spending, amirite?


That would necessarily occur. Let's do it!
 
2012-12-31 03:10:13 PM  

blackhalo: coeyagi: Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here

You know what's also different in Iowa vs. NYC? The salaries.

Deal with it.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 338x301]

/Iowan
//If I moved to Chicago, my salary would triple.


Yes but the taxes apply equally which is the whole farking point you dimwits.
 
2012-12-31 03:10:33 PM  

Nabb1: PanicMan: peterthx: incendi: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.

No. With an income of $250,000 per year you can afford something called a "car" or "subway tokens" and can commute from somewhere cheaper. Sorry, you're still wrong.

Yes. A crumbling infrastructure with less money to repair and you want to put more cars on the road.

Brilliant!

/"liberal thinking": an oxymoron if there ever was one

DC has a kick-ass metro system.

The left side of those escalators is a great place just to stand and take in the view.


NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
 
2012-12-31 03:10:44 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo.

Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.


Hang on, I'm not sure if this is correct or not, lemme quick check conservapedia. Hmm, not on there, I'm gonna have to check conservativefactcheck.com to find out what I think.
 
2012-12-31 03:10:58 PM  
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky):

Yesterday, after days of inaction, I came to the floor and noted we needed to act, but that I needed a dance partner. So I reached out to the Vice President in an effort to get things done. I'm happy to report that the effort has been a successful one and as the President just said, we are very close to an agreement. We need to protect American families and job creators from this looming tax hike. Everyone agrees that action is necessary. And I can report that we've reached an agreement on the all the tax issues. We are very, very close. As the President just said, the most important piece, the piece that has to be done now, is preventing the tax hikes. He said: "for now our most immediate priority is to stop taxes going up for middle class families starting tomorrow." He suggested that action on the sequester is something we can continue to work on in the coming months. So I agree, let's pass the tax relief portion now. Let's take what's been agreed to and get moving. The President wants this, members of Congress want to protect taxpayers, and we can get it done now. Let me be clear: We will continue to work on finding smarter ways to cut spending, but let's not let that hold up protecting Americans from the tax hike that will take place in about 10 hours.
We can do this. We must do this.
 
2012-12-31 03:11:16 PM  
A Scene at the Fiscal Cliff
As imagined by Brantgoose

Obama: (boots Republican Member of Congress off of cliff)
Michelle Obama: (cheerfully) Buh-bye!

(Repeat as necessary)
 
2012-12-31 03:11:37 PM  

factoryconnection: If all the Bush-Obama tax cuts disappeared tomorrow, it would hurt but it was the sequestration that I'm fearing. I'd rather pay 4% higher taxes than have no job.


I'm with you. Let them all expire. If we're serious about cutting the year-to-year deficits in pursuit of paying down and eventually eliminating the national debt, it's the only reasonable approach, particularly if we want to avoid deep and harmful cuts to mandatory spending programs like Social Security and Medicare. Soaking the "rich" is politically popular, but it doesn't get us to where we need to be.
 
2012-12-31 03:11:43 PM  
Even if we don't know the details of the bill, if it can pass the House it means Obama caved. I really hope this is just last-minute posturing so neither side can say the other gave up.
 
2012-12-31 03:12:42 PM  

Mike_LowELL: shower_in_my_socks: This goes on of two ways:

1. Obama announces they have a deal, Dems complain that he's gone too far to compromise... and then the House GOP still votes against it. Obama wins. There's no way anyone can sanely argue that Obama didn't give enough.

2. This actually passes and the House GOP votes in favor of tax increases, and their supporters grab the pitchforks and fire up their "2nd Amendment Remedies" machine.

3. The President and the Congress do what is right for the country and replaces the tax code with a system of income credits, which reimburse job creators for every dollar that they make.  The Freedom Index raises to its highest point since the Reagan administration.  Taxbongo cries at the thought that his policies have benefited the country and immediately resigns.


4. Elections are changed from "every person gets a vote" to "each person gets as many votes as they have dollars". The free market becomes truly free.
 
2012-12-31 03:12:43 PM  
i1191.photobucket.com
"The Democrats will Fix This, Don't you all worry none
You'll have your cell phones and Your welfare checks but you ain't got no guns
Obammy's got yer back, Senate's gonna get er' done

Go back to your protesting, And watching CNN
Hillary's gonna be OK, Chocolate Jesus has Risen AGAIN!"
 
2012-12-31 03:12:56 PM  

dumbobruni: Obama offered a $400k threshold 2 weeks ago.

its $1.2 trillion in new revenue, excluding the payroll tax hike (another trillion) and estate tax hike, and the additional tax hikes that are part of Obamacare.


You can't just "take" offers with time to spare? You have to dick around and moan publicly about having to be back at work after Christmas so that your dumb-sh*t constituents think you're "fighting" for their rights. Meanwhile, the ratings agencies have already proven to us that we no longer have infinite wiggle room to threaten the world economy with partisan bickering.

But do they learn? And yes, by "they" I mean the House GOP because they're the ones that have so far absolutely, positively refused any compromise whatsoever. So do they learn? NO. They're hammering out some half-assed arrangement on New Year's F*cking Eve, and it is almost quitting time on the East Coast.

Pathetic.
 
2012-12-31 03:13:23 PM  

seventypercent: factoryconnection: If all the Bush-Obama tax cuts disappeared tomorrow, it would hurt but it was the sequestration that I'm fearing. I'd rather pay 4% higher taxes than have no job.

I'm with you. Let them all expire. If we're serious about cutting the year-to-year deficits in pursuit of paying down and eventually eliminating the national debt, it's the only reasonable approach, particularly if we want to avoid deep and harmful cuts to mandatory spending programs like Social Security and Medicare. Soaking the "rich" is politically popular, but it doesn't get us to where we need to be.


I prefer the plan where we stop conquering the world.
 
2012-12-31 03:14:22 PM  

Wangiss: I prefer the plan where we stop conquering the world.


We're not really conquering it, we're just occasionally blowing bits of it up. We might actually get a return on our bomb-dollars if we were conquering.
 
2012-12-31 03:14:30 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: ProfessorOhki: Yeah... I admit, I sort of want to see what would happen. A halving of the deficit triggered by partisan dickery and an inability to make compromises? That's some popcorn politics.

If only that didn't come with a supersize side of throwing-the-economy-back-into-the-shiatter, I'd join you.


Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to a brief buyer's market.

/Terrible person
 
2012-12-31 03:14:41 PM  
Thank god we're saving the budget from a cliff of a .95% cut.
 
2012-12-31 03:15:29 PM  

scubamage: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.

I haven't heard anything touching this, so I would assume that this is still slotted to go up to 20%.


Dems offer was a $250k household income threshold for 20% capital gains & dividend rate.
 
2012-12-31 03:15:34 PM  

factoryconnection: dumbobruni: Obama offered a $400k threshold 2 weeks ago.

its $1.2 trillion in new revenue, excluding the payroll tax hike (another trillion) and estate tax hike, and the additional tax hikes that are part of Obamacare.

You can't just "take" offers with time to spare? You have to dick around and moan publicly about having to be back at work after Christmas so that your dumb-sh*t constituents think you're "fighting" for their rights. Meanwhile, the ratings agencies have already proven to us that we no longer have infinite wiggle room to threaten the world economy with partisan bickering.

But do they learn? And yes, by "they" I mean the House GOP because they're the ones that have so far absolutely, positively refused any compromise whatsoever. So do they learn? NO. They're hammering out some half-assed arrangement on New Year's F*cking Eve, and it is almost quitting time on the East Coast.

Pathetic.


What they're learning is that they have...

cdn.head-fi.org

Because we keep giving it to them. More government!!! (Yes, it applies to Republicans, too!)
 
2012-12-31 03:15:45 PM  

Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!


People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.
 
2012-12-31 03:16:17 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Your first $250k will be taxed the same. It's only the income above $250k that gets the different rate. And one could argue you've benefited bigtime over the last 10 years from the cut so it's not asking too much to ask you to pay more since you benefited more.
 
2012-12-31 03:16:17 PM  
Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge
 
2012-12-31 03:16:32 PM  

ChipNASA: [i1191.photobucket.com image 275x200]
"The Democrats will Fix This, Don't you all worry none
You'll have your cell phones and Your welfare checks but you ain't got no guns
Obammy's got yer back, Senate's gonna get er' done

Go back to your protesting, And watching CNN
Hillary's gonna be OK, Chocolate Jesus has Risen AGAIN!"


lolwut
 
2012-12-31 03:16:56 PM  

incendi: Wangiss: I prefer the plan where we stop conquering the world.

We're not really conquering it, we're just occasionally blowing bits of it up. We might actually get a return on our bomb-dollars if we were conquering.


Just because it's not Teddy Roosevelt doing it doesn't mean we're not getting our Empire on. If a government doesn't do what we want, we blow it up. Sometimes we rebuild, sometimes we don't. So who pulls the strings? America.
 
2012-12-31 03:17:03 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

Many responsible Americans would work some overtime or get another job to increase the household income.


Then what are the 47% doing wrong?
 
2012-12-31 03:17:22 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Prediction: Zero people will be pleased with the result.

I hope I'm wrong.


Just so long as the unemployment extensions are passed. Means another 20 weeks of $412 a week, as opposed to my new claim of $205 per week for 26 weeks (with four extensions available on that).

Oh, and also continuation of the federal contributions to Section 8 Housing subsidies, since I've found that my wife has been put at the front of the waiting list because of her disability.

Oh, and also the expanded federal subsidies for CalFresh.

/Thanks, Mr. Taxpayer.
 
2012-12-31 03:17:26 PM  

AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.


I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.
 
2012-12-31 03:17:44 PM  

Somacandra: Jake Steed: STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

It takes years and years to stop a single aircraft engine the Bush and Obama militaries don't even want. Why would any of this be simple?


When both parties cannot stop expenditures like this, further proof that Ike was right about the military-industrial complex.

When will folks admit that the only reason so much military spending exists is to enrich corporations and create boondoggle jobs, and has nothing to do with defending ourselves?
 
2012-12-31 03:18:15 PM  

Bontesla: Yesterday, after days of inaction, I came to the floor and noted we needed to act, but that I needed a dance partner.


How is a man that abjectly failed in every measurable way at his only task in the last four years still in a position of leadership? He stated his one job clear as day was "to make Obama a one-term president." Protect our country's credit rating? Nope. Iron out problems with domestic and foreign policies? Not on his watch! Learn to compromise so that everything isn't a knock-down, drag-out fight? That's for wine-drinking liberals. He had a job.

He failed, as I'm fairly certain we won't be installing any non-threatening white men in January to the Presidency. How does this man have any credibility left?
 
2012-12-31 03:18:29 PM  

PanicMan: Mike_LowELL: shower_in_my_socks: This goes on of two ways:

1. Obama announces they have a deal, Dems complain that he's gone too far to compromise... and then the House GOP still votes against it. Obama wins. There's no way anyone can sanely argue that Obama didn't give enough.

2. This actually passes and the House GOP votes in favor of tax increases, and their supporters grab the pitchforks and fire up their "2nd Amendment Remedies" machine.

3. The President and the Congress do what is right for the country and replaces the tax code with a system of income credits, which reimburse job creators for every dollar that they make.  The Freedom Index raises to its highest point since the Reagan administration.  Taxbongo cries at the thought that his policies have benefited the country and immediately resigns.

4. Elections are changed from "every person gets a vote" to "each person gets as many votes as they have dollars". The free market becomes truly free.


5. McDonald's thrives in this marketplace, since products are finally judged by product quality and not the amount of market share or advertising that the company has at their disposal.
 
2012-12-31 03:19:01 PM  

Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.


Word.
 
2012-12-31 03:19:09 PM  

ProfessorOhki: demaL-demaL-yeH: ProfessorOhki: Yeah... I admit, I sort of want to see what would happen. A halving of the deficit triggered by partisan dickery and an inability to make compromises? That's some popcorn politics.

If only that didn't come with a supersize side of throwing-the-economy-back-into-the-shiatter, I'd join you.

Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to a brief buyer's market.

/Terrible person


Yes, you are.

/Boxers: Don't like to be that constricted.
 
2012-12-31 03:19:11 PM  

jaybeezey: Uranus Is Huge!: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

Many responsible Americans would work some overtime or get another job to increase the household income.

Then what are the 47% doing wrong?


We're complacent with our corporate masters.
 
2012-12-31 03:19:11 PM  

NFA: ChuDogg: Personally I'm rooting for the fiscal cliff.

I'm rooting for the debt ceiling.

SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING!!!


Childish. I've got another idea: PAY FOR EVERYTHING! And if that means higher taxes to pay for all the military, benefits, and writeoffs, then it's time to pay up! Nothings is free, you bunch of freeloaders!
 
2012-12-31 03:19:26 PM  

coeyagi: shower_in_my_socks: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


And the cheapest house on Carbon Beach in Malibu is $10M. Won't somebody please think of the "lower middle-class" millionaires living on Carbon Beach? It's a stupid argument. $250k/year is a shiatload of money. I live better than most people I know, in an expensive city, and I make less than half that.

I am not entirely sure why we keep engaging this guy. His math is pretty indicative of the brainfarts of a mongoloid. Because your average mongoloid thinks that the DC region should be the litmus test for tax rates.


.
I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!
 
2012-12-31 03:19:34 PM  

king of vegas: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Your first $250k will be taxed the same. It's only the income above $250k that gets the different rate. And one could argue you've benefited bigtime over the last 10 years from the cut so it's not asking too much to ask you to pay more since you benefited more.


What makes you think someone currently earning over $250k earned that much over that entire ten-year time frame?
 
2012-12-31 03:19:56 PM  
FOX News Republicans hope this fails and that everyone will blame Obama.
They would rather have Obama fail than Americans succeed.
 
2012-12-31 03:20:00 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: CruJones: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.

I'm not wealthy but I invest in the market, as does most everyone I know to some degree. Raising the taxes by 33% will affect future decisions and investments.

You'll stop investing in stocks you think will return a profit?


When I sell I re-invest. There will be less to invest now. I also currently take a portion and invest in small companies or startups. I'll simply have less "discretionary" investment money now. I currently use about 5% for this. Unfortunately 95% of my investment money is geared towards retirement and boring stuff like that. I may also look at alternative investments, like rental properties, etc.

That said, what I do won't move the markets one iota. But it will for others.
 
2012-12-31 03:20:07 PM  
Let's see, If you make 250K a year you are pulling down about 5K a week, about a grand a day, and you are biatching about paying a extra 3% on what you make over 250K. Cry me a river.
 
2012-12-31 03:20:18 PM  

david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


LOL. As a NoVA resident myself, I can close my eyes, throw a rock and hit a dual-GS-15-income family, which would be at least $250k. (If Mrs. PCoC had a better job, we'd be one ourselves.) A 30-year mortgage payment (including property taxes) on a $350k home would be under $2k a month, or just under 10% of that $250k a year salary. Trivially affordable. Somehow, even with our lowly combined $200k income, we have no problem affording a $350k house. $250k is pretty goddamned well off. So is $200k.
 
2012-12-31 03:20:31 PM  

Bontesla: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky):

I came to the floor and noted we needed to act, but that I needed a dance partner. So I reached out to the Vice President


"Up until then, all the boys had standing against one wall and the girls the other. By golly, somebody needed to do something to get this shindig a-hoppin'. What I couldn't have ever predicted though, is how my heart would soar as I took Joe's hand in mine..."
 
2012-12-31 03:20:44 PM  

wombatsrus: Somacandra: Jake Steed: STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

It takes years and years to stop a single aircraft engine the Bush and Obama militaries don't even want. Why would any of this be simple?

When both parties cannot stop expenditures like this, further proof that Ike was right about the military-industrial complex.

When will folks admit that the only reason so much military spending exists is to enrich corporations and create boondoggle jobs, and has nothing to do with defending ourselves?


You would be more persuasive if you left out absolutes like "the only reason." You know there are entrenched interests besides those you listed, and paranoia about Russia and China are real in Washington.
 
2012-12-31 03:20:45 PM  

ChipNASA: [i1191.photobucket.com image 275x200]
"The Democrats will Fix This, Don't you all worry none
You'll have your cell phones and Your welfare checks but you ain't got no guns
Obammy's got yer back, Senate's gonna get er' done

Go back to your protesting, And watching CNN
Hillary's gonna be OK, Chocolate Jesus has Risen AGAIN!"


How old are you?
 
2012-12-31 03:20:55 PM  

deanis: ChipNASA: [i1191.photobucket.com image 275x200]
"The Democrats will Fix This, Don't you all worry none
You'll have your cell phones and Your welfare checks but you ain't got no guns
Obammy's got yer back, Senate's gonna get er' done

Go back to your protesting, And watching CNN
Hillary's gonna be OK, Chocolate Jesus has Risen AGAIN!"

lolwut


I'm just trying to make as much sense as the folks inside the Beltway.
 
2012-12-31 03:21:26 PM  
Help me out with this, cause I think I'm not understand the system right now... but, even if the Senate passes a bill, how the hell is Boehner gonna pass tax increases on 450k+ when he couldn't do it at a million last week? Am I missing some procedure or something?
 
2012-12-31 03:21:50 PM  
1) Ignore the Saudis who attacked us on 09/01/01
2) Attack a different country where we set up the dictator to be in power using
3) False accusations of WOMADs, then
4) Pour trillions into a funnel that empties into a fan, making the money untracable while
5) American companies get rich or get bailed out while
6) The banks cheat and steal and then get bailed out and given raises, then
7) Proclaim the American Taxpayer must pay for their stupidity and have a ""Fiscal Cliff"
You cliff doesn't exist. You can just execute the bastards that took you money and resotre the balance of finance, and power that way.
Or, since you are all gutless wimps, you'l STFU and take a pay cut, while
8) Congress votes itself a pay raise.
Happy New Year's
 
2012-12-31 03:21:51 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Bontesla: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky):

I came to the floor and noted we needed to act, but that I needed a dance partner. So I reached out to the Vice President

"Up until then, all the boys had standing against one wall and the girls the other. By golly, somebody needed to do something to get this shindig a-hoppin'. What I couldn't have ever predicted though, is how my heart would soar as I took Joe's hand in mine..."


This should have been the version he led with!
 
2012-12-31 03:22:00 PM  

factoryconnection: Bontesla: Yesterday, after days of inaction, I came to the floor and noted we needed to act, but that I needed a dance partner.

How is a man that abjectly failed in every measurable way at his only task in the last four years still in a position of leadership? He stated his one job clear as day was "to make Obama a one-term president." Protect our country's credit rating? Nope. Iron out problems with domestic and foreign policies? Not on his watch! Learn to compromise so that everything isn't a knock-down, drag-out fight? That's for wine-drinking liberals. He had a job.

He failed, as I'm fairly certain we won't be installing any non-threatening white men in January to the Presidency. How does this man have any credibility left?


LOL. Credibility is not the steam that powers Washington.
 
2012-12-31 03:22:43 PM  

jaybeezey: Uranus Is Huge!: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

Many responsible Americans would work some overtime or get another job to increase the household income.

Then what are the 47% doing wrong?


Voting Republican?
 
2012-12-31 03:22:54 PM  
Major Garrett @MajorCBS

Tax details in POTENTIAL DEAL: 39.6 percent $400K individual, $450K families; CapGain/Dividends at 20% +3.8% from ACA (23.8% total)
 
2012-12-31 03:23:10 PM  

Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.


Funded war. If only the GOP had thought about that the last decade. But, heck, they know better than any the government that waged war in history--at least to the one that deficits mattered.
 
2012-12-31 03:23:21 PM  

david_gaithersburg: I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!


And yet somehow believe that there aren't any houses cheaper than $350k in Montgomery County. Or spell financial.... but I'll give a pass on that since it's really not math related at all.
 
2012-12-31 03:23:35 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Taxes is not a penalty. It's part of living in a civilized non-pit of horse poo. We (about 90% of America) have supported your tax breaks with, cuts to social programs, education, infrastructure (not to mention corporate welfare) for years. It's time to pay your due. Sorry, but as much as you guys think your supporting us, we are tired of supporting you.
 
2012-12-31 03:23:55 PM  

CruJones: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: CruJones: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.

I'm not wealthy but I invest in the market, as does most everyone I know to some degree. Raising the taxes by 33% will affect future decisions and investments.

You'll stop investing in stocks you think will return a profit?

When I sell I re-invest. There will be less to invest now. I also currently take a portion and invest in small companies or startups. I'll simply have less "discretionary" investment money now. I currently use about 5% for this. Unfortunately 95% of my investment money is geared towards retirement and boring stuff like that. I may also look at alternative investments, like rental properties, etc.

That said, what I do won't move the markets one iota. But it will for others.


It seems my rates won't go up regardless, so carry on.

/wish I made $400k
 
2012-12-31 03:24:36 PM  
Hmm..another year of extended unemployment benefits. I wonder what Obama had to give up to the cons for that. Anyone?
 
2012-12-31 03:25:18 PM  

DamnYankees: Ezra Klein  @ezraklein
That said, if the presser really does hurt a deal, Congress is a more ridiculous, trivial place than I gave it credit for.

Ezra Klein  @ezrakleinI really look forward to the first member of congress who says they can't vote for the deal because the president was too merry

Ezra Klein  @ezrakleinThere was a time when politics was so grim only the Onion could adequately cover it. Now it's so stupid that I think it's up to GIFs.


Exactly. Taxes should go up on everyone. Except me, or course. At this point in my life I'm a tax taker.
 
2012-12-31 03:25:52 PM  
Hope already came last night, and beat the Cowboys with nine completions.
 
2012-12-31 03:25:59 PM  

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: Help me out with this, cause I think I'm not understand the system right now... but, even if the Senate passes a bill, how the hell is Boehner gonna pass tax increases on 450k+ when he couldn't do it at a million last week? Am I missing some procedure or something?


Time Pressure. Learn about it. You'll save a quarter million dollars in your lifetime if you do.
 
2012-12-31 03:26:05 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Hmm..another year of extended unemployment benefits. I wonder what Obama had to give up to the cons for that. Anyone?


Another year of Medicare Advantage.
 
2012-12-31 03:26:25 PM  

david_gaithersburg: coeyagi: shower_in_my_socks: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


And the cheapest house on Carbon Beach in Malibu is $10M. Won't somebody please think of the "lower middle-class" millionaires living on Carbon Beach? It's a stupid argument. $250k/year is a shiatload of money. I live better than most people I know, in an expensive city, and I make less than half that.

I am not entirely sure why we keep engaging this guy. His math is pretty indicative of the brainfarts of a mongoloid. Because your average mongoloid thinks that the DC region should be the litmus test for tax rates.

.
I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!


So you're saying you're sort of a big deal? I bet you have many leather bound books and your apartment smells of rich mahogany.
 
2012-12-31 03:26:37 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.


i.imgur.com

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.
 
2012-12-31 03:26:58 PM  

Wangiss: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

Word.


Meh. Despite that historical speedbump, I think my point still is valid. Whatever happened to doing things for the good of the nation rather than doing them for yourself? Was that the 80s' fault?
 
2012-12-31 03:27:17 PM  

Bontesla: Major Garrett @MajorCBS

Tax details in POTENTIAL DEAL: 39.6 percent $400K individual, $450K families; CapGain/Dividends at 20% +3.8% from ACA (23.8% total)


If Obama can convince the GOP to accept a capital gains tax increase, he deserves another Nobel Prize.
 
2012-12-31 03:27:23 PM  

incendi: david_gaithersburg: I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!

And yet somehow believe that there aren't any houses cheaper than $350k in Montgomery County. Or spell financial.... but I'll give a pass on that since it's really not math related at all.


Part of my job includes finding out incorrect spellings of "financial" and its synonyms. "Financial" is the worst keyword in existence.
 
2012-12-31 03:27:51 PM  
So if I understand it, rate increases for $450K+, loss of Bush era extra deductions for $250K+, extension of stimulus deductions (don't think this includes payroll tax holiday, but I could be wrong), raises estate tax 5% on those with more than $5 million (he wanted 10% more on estates worth more than $3.5 million), the capital gains rate stays the same (or actually increases 3.8% increase, but that's part of the PPACA that Republicans tried to overturn early in negotiations), and we get the doc fix and unemployment extended. Entitlements untouched. Sounds like a decent deal to me.

Of course, Republicans have already put out statements about how they totally would have voted for this if Obama hadn't made a public statement, so it's his fault if this doesn't pass. Sort of like how Nancy Pelosi saying mean things was the reason they had to vote against the bailout because she said mean things that made them sad and forced them to cause a major stock drop for several more days.
 
2012-12-31 03:28:01 PM  

Orange-Pippin: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Taxes is not a penalty. It's part of living in a civilized non-pit of horse poo. We (about 90% of America) have supported your tax breaks with, cuts to social programs, education, infrastructure (not to mention corporate welfare) for years. It's time to pay your due. Sorry, but as much as you guys think your supporting us, we are tired of supporting you.


...by taking less and less of your money.
 
2012-12-31 03:28:05 PM  

Mentat: Bontesla: Major Garrett @MajorCBS

Tax details in POTENTIAL DEAL: 39.6 percent $400K individual, $450K families; CapGain/Dividends at 20% +3.8% from ACA (23.8% total)

If Obama can convince the GOP to accept a capital gains tax increase, he deserves another Nobel Prize.


Billy House @HouseInSession
House GOP Leadership Source: Republican conference later today/early evening on McConnell-Biden plan.


What are the odds of this passing in the House?
 
2012-12-31 03:28:37 PM  
Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!
flicksided.com
 
2012-12-31 03:28:39 PM  

AngryPanda: Wangiss: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

Word.

Meh. Despite that historical speedbump, I think my point still is valid. Whatever happened to doing things for the good of the nation rather than doing them for yourself? Was that the 80s' fault?


I dunno. Sexual revolution?
 
2012-12-31 03:29:16 PM  
Also, I hope all of these "low income" 250Kers can keep their refrigerators if their taxes go up.
 
2012-12-31 03:29:41 PM  

Wangiss: wombatsrus: Somacandra: Jake Steed: STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

It takes years and years to stop a single aircraft engine the Bush and Obama militaries don't even want. Why would any of this be simple?

When both parties cannot stop expenditures like this, further proof that Ike was right about the military-industrial complex.

When will folks admit that the only reason so much military spending exists is to enrich corporations and create boondoggle jobs, and has nothing to do with defending ourselves?

You would be more persuasive if you left out absolutes like "the only reason." You know there are entrenched interests besides those you listed, and paranoia about Russia and China are real in Washington.


Well, every time there is serious talk about cutting military spending, the only cry I hear is "so many jobs will be lost!" and little or nothing else about any other reason. For example, I haven't anything about how the "fiscal cliff" will impact defending ourselves, but all about how defense contractors will have to fire folks due to projects being cancelled.

Perhaps there are other reasons, but if so they not being leveraged as much as the "jobs loss" fear.
 
2012-12-31 03:30:44 PM  

Somacandra: Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.

[i.imgur.com image 191x300]

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.


Okay, fine. ...modern conservative thought.

Progress ALWAYS wins! Suck it and enjoy your New Year.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:13 PM  

ChipNASA: Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!
[flicksided.com image 266x264]


Come on now. Pimpin' ain't easy.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:16 PM  
Rebecca Berg @rebeccagberg

Sen. Portman asks that Pres. Obama NOT increase pay for Congress "until a long-term deficit reduction agreement is reached."

Rebecca Berg @rebeccagberg Oh no. RT @jonallendc: Sad news: Lillian Lewis, wife of Rep. John Lewis, died.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:24 PM  
FARK ESTATE TAXES.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:27 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Hmm..another year of extended unemployment benefits. I wonder what Obama had to give up to the cons for that. Anyone?


The $250K ceiling on raising taxes, perhaps? I hope that was all it is, because I'd rather go over the farking cliff than further negotiate with economic terrorists.
 
2012-12-31 03:31:59 PM  

AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!
People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.


toppun.com
 
2012-12-31 03:32:05 PM  

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: Help me out with this, cause I think I'm not understand the system right now... but, even if the Senate passes a bill, how the hell is Boehner gonna pass tax increases on 450k+ when he couldn't do it at a million last week? Am I missing some procedure or something?


Boehner had some moderate GOP support for his plan. Many of them are retiring/being forced out tomorrow, so they have no incentive to vote against the deal.

similar to Snowe and Lugar in the Senate, who were actually ok with a $250k threshold.

you only need a handful of republicans in the House to vote yes, as long as Democrats hold it together.
 
2012-12-31 03:32:29 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Somacandra: Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.

[i.imgur.com image 191x300]

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.

Okay, fine. ...modern conservative thought.

Progress ALWAYS wins! Suck it and enjoy your New Year.


A NEW YEAR? WHY CAN'T IT JUST BE 1960 AGAIN?
 
2012-12-31 03:32:29 PM  
You gotta love how cutting so called defense spending isn't even on the table.
 
2012-12-31 03:32:44 PM  

Bontesla: Billy House @HouseInSession
House GOP Leadership Source: Republican conference later today/early evening on McConnell-Biden plan.


What are the odds of this passing in the House?


I keep praying that we see the Tea Party contingent of the House start screaming "No taxation without representation!" on the floor of the House.
 
2012-12-31 03:33:00 PM  
steve liesman @steveliesman

Source familiar w/ negotiations tells me discussions on sequester are "all over the place." But expects agreement.

steve liesman @steveliesman Source tells me main issues on sequester are how long it can be delayed and how much can be "bought down" with either rev or other cuts.
 
2012-12-31 03:33:23 PM  

lenfromak: Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Oh, look! Another Independent who doesn't understand marginal tax rates!
 
2012-12-31 03:33:24 PM  

Nabb1: I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.


You're smarter than this. You know perfectly well the military-industrial complex has behaved in a perpetual state of war from the end of WWII to the end of the Berlin Wall, and has fought tooth and nail to impose a permanent lavish state of militarism--often winning when the ostensible government balked. How many U.S. military bases exist worldwide? Running an empire is not cheap. You're paying for that through the nose much more than for a welfare state where funds distributed at least go back into the domestic economy.
 
2012-12-31 03:33:32 PM  

wombatsrus: Wangiss: wombatsrus: Somacandra: Jake Steed: STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

It takes years and years to stop a single aircraft engine the Bush and Obama militaries don't even want. Why would any of this be simple?

When both parties cannot stop expenditures like this, further proof that Ike was right about the military-industrial complex.

When will folks admit that the only reason so much military spending exists is to enrich corporations and create boondoggle jobs, and has nothing to do with defending ourselves?

You would be more persuasive if you left out absolutes like "the only reason." You know there are entrenched interests besides those you listed, and paranoia about Russia and China are real in Washington.

Well, every time there is serious talk about cutting military spending, the only cry I hear is "so many jobs will be lost!" and little or nothing else about any other reason. For example, I haven't anything about how the "fiscal cliff" will impact defending ourselves, but all about how defense contractors will have to fire folks due to projects being cancelled.

Perhaps there are other reasons, but if so they not being leveraged as much as the "jobs loss" fear.


It's the only demagoguery that crosses party lines, so it's the one you'll hear. The Republican "national defense" line is legacy and it works on the right. The Democrats learned that no one questions the FDR WWII economic defense, so it's a perfect nexus for justification of tyranny and murder. Yay!
 
2012-12-31 03:33:48 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: coeyagi: Yeah, which means a bunch of hicks with rifles and yellow snake flags shouting retarded rhetoric in a Southern Drawl. 2009 called and it wants its "civic action" back.

Actually, it seems to be taking the form of shooting up Sikh temples and pushing Indians in front of subway trains. Hicks don't really care who they are revenge-killing so long as they have brown skin and don't talk like Muricans.


What happens the subway pushie is brown skinned?
 
2012-12-31 03:34:32 PM  

Hale-Bopp: You gotta love how cutting so called defense spending isn't even on the table.


As I understand it no cuts are on the table right now for anything in this small package.
 
2012-12-31 03:34:49 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Somacandra: Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.

[i.imgur.com image 191x300]

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.

Okay, fine. ...modern conservative thought.

Progress ALWAYS wins! Suck it and enjoy your New Year.


I'd go with "popular modern conservative thought."

And I also wish a Sucky New Year to Fark!!
 
2012-12-31 03:35:07 PM  
If this includes tax increases on a certain income bracket, then I am not on board.

I hope the House rejects this measure.
 
2012-12-31 03:35:19 PM  

Bontesla: Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge


That's a shiat deal.  Pretty much what was expected.
 
2012-12-31 03:36:08 PM  
Jake Sherman @JakeSherman

House Republican conference meeting coming up. Not to talk about McConnell/Biden, but Sandy relief and other pending measures.
 
2012-12-31 03:36:14 PM  

incendi: david_gaithersburg: I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!

And yet somehow believe that there aren't any houses cheaper than $350k in Montgomery.


That part is probably mostly true. Go on a site like Redfin.com and search for available houses in Montgomery. I'd wager you won't find much for less than 350k, particularly if you want 3bedrooms or more. But then 350k should be readily affordable to someone making even half the 250k mentioned.
 
2012-12-31 03:36:21 PM  
hope no one knocks on the door and makes it go back in...

Link
 
2012-12-31 03:36:42 PM  
Drinking a bottle of ex-lax should do the trick. Regardless of what they come up with it is guaranteed to be shyte.
 
2012-12-31 03:36:48 PM  
Such a surprise. Our fearless leaders put aside their differences at the 11th hour and saved the day. Who would have ever seen this coming?
 
2012-12-31 03:36:58 PM  

ChipNASA: Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!


Wow, you aren't bright at all. They dropped a mandate that has prevented *all federal* pay raises since 2010. Federal employees are getting 0.5%, and congress pay raises are maxed out at the same level. If my job had only given 0.5% in the past 3 years I would have quit.
 
2012-12-31 03:37:02 PM  

Somacandra: I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.


The Pseudo-Conservative Revolt

There is, however, a dynamic of dissent in America today. Representing no more than a modest fraction of the electorate, it is not so powerful as the liberal dissent of the New Deal era, but it is powerful enough to set the tone of our political life and to establish throughout the country a kind of punitive reaction. The new dissent is certainly not radical - there are hardly any radicals of any sort left - nor is it precisely conservative. Unlike most of the liberal dissent of the past, the new dissent not only has no respect for non-conformism, but is based upon a relentless demand for conformity. It can most accurately be called pseudo-conservative - I borrow the term from the study of The Authoritarian Personality published five years ago by Theodore W. Adorno and his associates - because its exponents, although they believe themselves to be conservatives and usually employ the rhetoric of conservatism, show signs of a serious and restless dissatisfaction with American life, traditions and institutions. They have little in common with the temperate and compromising spirit of true conservatism in the classical sense of the word, and they are far from pleased with the dominant practical conservatism of the moment as it is represented by the Eisenhower Administration. Their political reactions express rather a profound if largely unconscious hatred of our society and its ways - a hatred which one would hesitate to impute to them if one did not have suggestive clinical evidence.
 
2012-12-31 03:37:10 PM  

kitsuneymg: Leaving puzzled.


i.imgur.com

Possibly because the first and last frame contain filter evasions of NSFW language?
/farksafe version
 
2012-12-31 03:37:28 PM  

wombatsrus: Well, every time there is serious talk about cutting military spending, the only cry I hear is "so many jobs will be lost!" and little or nothing else about any other reason. For example, I haven't anything about how the "fiscal cliff" will impact defending ourselves, but all about how defense contractors will have to fire folks due to projects being cancelled.


Yet whenever someone proposes spending public funds to upgrade crumbling bridges and other infrastructure which incidentally puts people to work, those same people are against it.

Evidently defense dollars are manly dollars, or something.
 
2012-12-31 03:37:35 PM  

Funk Brothers: tax rises should hurt the poor more than the wealthy



FTFY
 
2012-12-31 03:37:37 PM  

Kuroshin: Bontesla: Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge

That's a shiat deal.  Pretty much what was expected.


Well, and as far as I can tell, the Republicans are pushing to vote on the tax relief portion now and handle the tax increase vote later. So, it doesn't even sound like the Republicans are in agreement on the "deal" that's being drafted.
 
2012-12-31 03:37:43 PM  

kitsuneymg: Came for this
[art.penny-arcade.com image 800x401]

Leaving puzzled.


It was linked above with a nsfw tag
 
2012-12-31 03:37:51 PM  

Bontesla: Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge


good that they are finally rolling back that payroll tax decrease.
Good job 0bama.
 
2012-12-31 03:38:11 PM  

Somacandra: Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.

[i.imgur.com image 191x300]

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.


Not quite, you're thinking of reactionary thinking. It's an "extreme" of conservatism.
 
2012-12-31 03:38:20 PM  
Also Somacandra, I feel like I was unnecessarily snarky. I have you favorited in Reasonable Cyan 4, not Potato Farm Red 4.

Happy Holidays!
 
2012-12-31 03:38:37 PM  

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: Help me out with this, cause I think I'm not understand the system right now... but, even if the Senate passes a bill, how the hell is Boehner gonna pass tax increases on 450k+ when he couldn't do it at a million last week? Am I missing some procedure or something?


What you're missing is that Obama just got everyone's hopes up and if things don't go through, it's going to be Boehner on the podium giving everyone the bad news, totally and completely associating his face with failure and disappointment.
 
2012-12-31 03:38:43 PM  

MaestroQuark: ChipNASA: Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!


Wow, you aren't bright at all. They dropped a mandate that has prevented *all federal* pay raises since 2010. Federal employees are getting 0.5%, and congress pay raises are maxed out at the same level. If my job had only given 0.5% in the past 3 years I would have quit.


Do you spihon $170,000 or more on threat of incarceration? How can I get a job like that?
 
2012-12-31 03:38:52 PM  
Some of you folks don't recognize posturing when you see it.

Obama knows that the House Republicans aren't going to come together. This is a false hope that's being dangled out there in order to give Americans the image of him being hopeful and conciliatory, rather than antagonistic and resigned to going over the cliff.

This will keep the blame deflected to Republicans, and also give him a great base upon which to launch next year's Obama Tax Cut for 98% of Americans, which Republicans will find ruination upon no matter what they do.
 
2012-12-31 03:39:09 PM  

Bontesla: Kuroshin: Bontesla: Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge

That's a shiat deal.  Pretty much what was expected.

Well, and as far as I can tell, the Republicans are pushing to vote on the tax relief portion now and handle the tax increase vote later. So, it doesn't even sound like the Republicans are in agreement on the "deal" that's being drafted.


Idiots.
 
2012-12-31 03:39:20 PM  
Please close Pandroa's box. We don't want hope to come out. Or anything else to come out of her box.
 
2012-12-31 03:39:33 PM  

ChipNASA: "Obama is the GREATEST!!!"
[files.abovetopsecret.com image 224x163]


Now that is effing funny!
 
2012-12-31 03:39:55 PM  

MaestroQuark: ChipNASA: Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!


Wow, you aren't bright at all. They dropped a mandate that has prevented *all federal* pay raises since 2010. Federal employees are getting 0.5%, and congress pay raises are maxed out at the same level. If my job had only given 0.5% in the past 3 years I would have quit.


If you had a 13% approval rating of the people who gave you your job you would have been fired before you had a chance to quit.
They should get a pay decrease.
 
2012-12-31 03:40:36 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


That is not "moderately" by any quantitative definition. Perhaps you should look at the basic average incomes of families in the USA to get some perspective on how wealthy you are.
 
2012-12-31 03:40:43 PM  

david_gaithersburg: coeyagi: shower_in_my_socks: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


And the cheapest house on Carbon Beach in Malibu is $10M. Won't somebody please think of the "lower middle-class" millionaires living on Carbon Beach? It's a stupid argument. $250k/year is a shiatload of money. I live better than most people I know, in an expensive city, and I make less than half that.

I am not entirely sure why we keep engaging this guy. His math is pretty indicative of the brainfarts of a mongoloid. Because your average mongoloid thinks that the DC region should be the litmus test for tax rates.

.
I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!


Well, it certainly wasn't your spelling... LOL
 
2012-12-31 03:40:55 PM  

HuffPost's Sam Stein and Arthur Delaney


One of the remaining sticking points holding up a fiscal cliff deal appears to have been resolved, as negotiators have decided to extend unemployment benefits without offsetting the cost.
A source familiar with negotiations told The Huffington Post that lawmakers would treat the provision as "an emergency measure that shouldn't be paid for." A Senate Democratic and Republican source each confirmed the plan.
What that means is that the $30 billion pricetag for a year-long extension will simply be added to the deficit. Republicans have in the past objected to reauthorizing federal unemployment compensation because of its impact on the deficit, though in recessions since World War II Congress has generally added extra weeks of benefits without paying for them.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:03 PM  
Describing the expiration of "temporary" tax cuts that were always designed to expire as a "fiscal cliff" tells you everything you need to know about this.

This is yet another manufactured "crisis" that allows them to do something they know you don't want at the last second so you don't have enough time to form an angry mob before it's a done deal.

The bipartisan Simpson -Boyles plan has always called for killing the tax cuts for the middle class, screwing over social safety net programs, and using the money saved to lower the taxes on the rich and their corporations.

Count me among those who always believed that President Obama made a big mistake when he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform - a supposedly bipartisan panel charged with coming up with solutions to the nation's long-run fiscal problems. It seemed obvious, as soon as the commission's membership was announced, that "bipartisanship" would mean what it so often does in Washington: a compromise between the center-right and the hard-right.

My misgivings increased as we got a better feel for the views of the commission's co-chairmen. It soon became clear that Erskine Bowles, the Democratic co-chairman, had a very Republican-sounding small-government agenda. Meanwhile, Alan Simpson, the Republican co-chairman, revealed the kind of honest broker he is by sending an abusive e-mail to the executive director of the National Older Women's League in which he described Social Security as being "like a milk cow with 310 million tits."

What the co-chairmen are proposing is a mixture of tax cuts and tax increases - tax cuts for the wealthy, tax increases for the middle class. They suggest eliminating tax breaks that, whatever you think of them, matter a lot to middle-class Americans - the deductibility of health benefits and mortgage interest - and using much of the revenue gained thereby, not to reduce the deficit, but to allow sharp reductions in both the top marginal tax rate and in the corporate tax rate.

This proposal clearly represents a major transfer of income upward, from the middle class to a small minority of wealthy Americans.

This is the bipartisan consensus, people.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:23 PM  

phaseolus: Evidently defense dollars are manly dollars, or something.


Manly? Watch where you swing that word around. Remember what happened with "shovel-ready?"
 
2012-12-31 03:41:27 PM  

ZombieApocalypseKitten: Please close Pandroa's box. We don't want hope to come out. Or anything else to come out of her box.


That's right. Keep it stuffed and happy.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:35 PM  

Strolpol: Some of you folks don't recognize posturing when you see it.

Obama knows that the House Republicans aren't going to come together. This is a false hope that's being dangled out there in order to give Americans the image of him being hopeful and conciliatory, rather than antagonistic and resigned to going over the cliff.

This will keep the blame deflected to Republicans, and also give him a great base upon which to launch next year's Obama Tax Cut for 98% of Americans, which Republicans will find ruination upon no matter what they do.


this is exactly how the Dems kept control of the House in 2010.  They were blaming the GOP for everything.
It also worked as the Dems kept control of the House and gained more governorship seats in 2012.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:48 PM  

Somacandra: kitsuneymg: Leaving puzzled.

[i.imgur.com image 500x532]

Possibly because the first and last frame contain filter evasions of NSFW language?
/farksafe version


Correct. First one was initially up a few posts in.
 
2012-12-31 03:42:16 PM  
OK can someone explain the Fiscal Cliff deadlines to me?

Cause if this happens, it looks like it's gonna happen that some time zones that meet a midnight Dec 31st deadline and not others.

"Well, it looks like the Eastern seaboard has gone over the Fiscal Cliff, we managed to save Mountain and Pacific. Central was lost to the Fiscal Cliff by only 38 seconds. Bravely, Obama had jumped to the edge and caught it by a single hand, yet ultimately the weight of an entire time zone already passed proved too great. The anguish on his face was palpable as his solid grasp slipped from wrist to hand and then only fingertips and then slipped and he could do nothing but watch it freefall and bash on the rocks below and be dragged off by the crashing waves lapping at the rocks."
 
2012-12-31 03:42:27 PM  
pontechango: [quoting] Unlike most of the liberal dissent of the past, the new dissent not only has no respect for non-conformism, but is based upon a relentless demand for conformity. It can most accurately be called pseudo-conservative -

I'm not a fan of Adorno in general, but I would agree with this. It seems to fit a definition of "REACTIONARY" to me. American reactionaries of course will be different than the classical type. Both the far right (and what passes for) the far left in this country were disgusted by the bailouts and the corporate socialism of TARP and other late Bush-era steps to address the liquidity crunch.
 
2012-12-31 03:42:53 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: That part is probably mostly true. Go on a site like Redfin.com and search for available houses in Montgomery. I'd wager you won't find much for less than 350k, particularly if you want 3bedrooms or more. But then 350k should be readily affordable to someone making even half the 250k mentioned.


42 results with 3+ bedrooms... and that's with a price cap of 200k. I understand it's an expensive area in general, and the desirable parts are very expensive, but the greater point is that just because there's a market nearby that caters to the filthy rich doesn't mean that 250k/yr makes you "low middle income".
 
2012-12-31 03:43:17 PM  
How cool would it be if Grover Norquist called a press conference in his bathroom and went 'Budd Dwyer' by drowning himself in the tub?

I'd wager not a single reporter would intervene.
 
2012-12-31 03:43:26 PM  
imageshack.us

Nissin Cup O Noodles running low...

Send Check soon...


/good news, that thing on my neck is almost healed
 
2012-12-31 03:43:39 PM  
the fed authority is meaningful and just.

this shiat is beyond pointless and whatever "deal" they come to will be meaningless by tomorrow, just buying time.

"Exactly. If only there was a simple way to make the cutoff location-adjusted."

you mean like deciding tax rates based on an inflation adjusted basket of neccessarry commodoties? duuurrrrrr.. nominal tax rates are for the dumbs, like any of you that think this shiat matters.

see you on the other side, theres no possible way they cut enough.

scrub those statistics, make that turd shiiiiine.

idiots
 
2012-12-31 03:43:42 PM  
BullBearMS:
Count me among those who always believed that President Obama made a big mistake when he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform -

No, he made a mistake by ignoring their recommendations.
 
2012-12-31 03:44:31 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Also Somacandra, I feel like I was unnecessarily snarky. I have you favorited in Reasonable Cyan 4, not Potato Farm Red 4...Happy Holidays!


Happy holidays to you as well. I didn't take any snark from it, and perhaps I was too snarky in my own reply :-).
 
2012-12-31 03:45:36 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

That is not "moderately" by any quantitative definition. Perhaps you should look at the basic average incomes of families in the USA to get some perspective on how wealthy you are.


So what? I make around 60k and by noones definition would I be considered poor. Yet I pay next to nothing in income taxes. How is that even remotely fair?
 
2012-12-31 03:46:11 PM  

GoldSpider: Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here

Exactly. If only there was a simple way to make the cutoff location-adjusted.


It a way it is due to mortgage deduction. But that needs to be fixed, our make it a deduction on rent or mortgage.
 
2012-12-31 03:46:50 PM  

phaseolus: wombatsrus: Well, every time there is serious talk about cutting military spending, the only cry I hear is "so many jobs will be lost!" and little or nothing else about any other reason. For example, I haven't anything about how the "fiscal cliff" will impact defending ourselves, but all about how defense contractors will have to fire folks due to projects being cancelled.

Yet whenever someone proposes spending public funds to upgrade crumbling bridges and other infrastructure which incidentally puts people to work, those same people are against it.

Evidently defense dollars are manly dollars, or something.


In my opinion it is much easier to overrun defense contracts and get away with it than infrastructure contracts. Politicians will get up in arms with infrastructure cost overruns, but say nothing when it happens with defense contracts.
 
2012-12-31 03:47:15 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Pay your farking taxes and be proud of the fact that you're contributing to society.
 
2012-12-31 03:47:17 PM  

Wangiss: Orange-Pippin: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Taxes is not a penalty. It's part of living in a civilized non-pit of horse poo. We (about 90% of America) have supported your tax breaks with, cuts to social programs, education, infrastructure (not to mention corporate welfare) for years. It's time to pay your due. Sorry, but as much as you guys think your supporting us, we are tired of supporting you.

...by taking less and less of your money.


For the record, paying taxes is not "taking" anything. As an American I pay up and now it's your turn. Sorry.
 
2012-12-31 03:47:46 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: GoldSpider: Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here

Exactly. If only there was a simple way to make the cutoff location-adjusted.

Tough to do but I'm listening.


This might be stupid, but how about "top 2% by voting district" instead of "top 2% of all US earners."

/I expect the full helping of Fark economist scorn for this one.
 
2012-12-31 03:47:54 PM  

CruJones: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.

I'm not wealthy but I invest in the market, as does most everyone I know to some degree. Raising the taxes by 33% will affect future decisions and investments.


Sure, because if they tax your investment returns at that rate, you may as well pull everything out of the market and put it in a bank's interest-bearing checking account at 3%, right? Anything else would just be feeding the welfare babies (and farm subsidies and defense contractors).

How about we quit this charade of earnings, deductions, and taxes already. How about we define any increase in wealth as income and tax it at a flat rate. No more deductions. No more clever definitions of what is income and what is not. None of these bait-and-switch BS scams created by bankers and financiers to keep the rich guy rich and make the rest of us turn his the farking wheel in his factory. They raise the taxes then give us a "deduction" to make us think we're getting away with something. These Flexible Spending Accounts? What a farking shell game THAT crap is. Oh, look! You get to use PRE-tax money to pay for these everyday things you need (and sometimes cannot live without). Such a deal for you. Bullshiat.

You want to give me a deal? Quit the farking carnival "guess my expense" game and just let me submit my farking receipts at the end of the year, deducting it from my taxes. I don't mind spending my taxed money to get the stuff up front, if it all comes out the same at the end, and some farking money manager isn't having fun on my dime while I'm hoping I guessed right and don't end up losing what I over-budgeted.

And quit subsidizing every goddamn thing with the Fed money.
 
2012-12-31 03:48:01 PM  

sonnyboy11: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

I would be hit. Don't have a problem with it. Taxes are not a "penalty".


A progressive income tax is.
 
2012-12-31 03:48:14 PM  
I'm not getting my hopes up until it passes the House and heads to the Senate.
 
2012-12-31 03:48:18 PM  

spawn73: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Pay your farking taxes and be proud of the fact that you're contributing to society.

 
2012-12-31 03:48:47 PM  

ProfessorOhki: phaseolus: Evidently defense dollars are manly dollars, or something.

Manly? Watch where you swing that word around. Remember what happened with "shovel-ready?"



Now that you mention it, I bet Obama could have wrangled Republicans into voting for more infrastructure-related stimulus spending 3 years ago if only he'd hired some Village People construction worker cosplayers to sell it.
 
2012-12-31 03:49:16 PM  
I also can't help wondering if the "a deal is near" comments are being made now to ensure the market ends higher today.
 
2012-12-31 03:49:21 PM  

Bontesla: Kuroshin: Bontesla: Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge

That's a shiat deal.  Pretty much what was expected.

Well, and as far as I can tell, the Republicans are pushing to vote on the tax relief portion now and handle the tax increase vote later. So, it doesn't even sound like the Republicans are in agreement on the "deal" that's being drafted.


I'm hoping they play chicken with this semi until they're just a smear on the road.  I'd rather have the "cliff" than this deal.
 
2012-12-31 03:49:21 PM  

LL316: Bennie Crabtree: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

That is not "moderately" by any quantitative definition. Perhaps you should look at the basic average incomes of families in the USA to get some perspective on how wealthy you are.

So what? I make around 60k and by noones definition would I be considered poor. Yet I pay next to nothing in income taxes. How is that even remotely fair?


You could make it more fair by telling us those of us in the same bracket how to also pay little income tax~
 
2012-12-31 03:49:28 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

I would be hit. Don't have a problem with it. Taxes are not a "penalty".

A progressive income tax is.


10/10. For all you would-be trolls... this is the platonic ideal.
 
2012-12-31 03:49:31 PM  

Strolpol: This will keep the blame deflected to Republicans, and also give him a great base upon which to launch next year's Obama Tax Cut for 98% of Americans, which Republicans will find ruination upon no matter what they do.


If its a stripped-down single measure introduced on January 4th, it will probably have over 400 co-sponsors in the House. Everybody likes voting for a tax cut, not just Republicans. If its buried within a completely unpalatable (for them) package then yes, they'll probably balk and it will end up in conference committee.
 
2012-12-31 03:50:14 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

I would be hit. Don't have a problem with it. Taxes are not a "penalty".

A progressive income tax is.


Sound economic policy is now a "penalty".  You, sir, are quite the economist.  You should write a book.
 
2012-12-31 03:50:28 PM  
Go over the cliff. Agreeing to rate changes that are a compromise for the GOP with little to no spending changes or debt ceiling crap is stupid and completely spineless...which means the democrats will do that.
 
2012-12-31 03:50:58 PM  

Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.


So you think provoking a recession is a resonable thing?
 
2012-12-31 03:51:23 PM  

AngryPanda: Wangiss: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

Word.

Meh. Despite that historical speedbump, I think my point still is valid. Whatever happened to doing things for the good of the nation rather than doing them for yourself? Was that the 80s' fault?


During WWII, people of all income levels bought war bonds.  When you prepare your income tax return, there is a place on it for you to pay additional sums above and beyond your tax liability.  If you feel it your civic duty to do more, I encourage you to do so.
 
2012-12-31 03:52:09 PM  
I'm always amazed at how these threads are filled with people that struggle to understand the progressive tax structure.
 
2012-12-31 03:53:43 PM  

EnviroDude: Vegan Meat Popsicle: That said, fark compromise. The republicans want something from a position of nothing after spending four years of doing nothing. Fark those guys right in the nostril. Americans spoke about what they want and it's nothing that the republicans are offering. They can either put on some big boy pants, suck it up and do what the country wants done or they can focus on driving themselves even deeper into obscurity.

For two of the aforementioned four years, the democrats were in charge of the house.  They were also in charge of the Senate.  And for one of those years, they had a filibuster proof majority when you added the left leaning independents that caucused with the democrats.

Then, two years ago, the republicans took over the house.

Prior to that, the democrats:

dated the sunset of the Bush tax cuts for tomorrow

dated the sunset of the payroll withholding tomorrow

dated the implementation of the Obamacare tax hikes tomorrow

The only thing the republicans have done (with the cooperation of the democrats) is date the mandatory spending cuts

/the more you know


Half true. Either way the reason for those dates was to get republican support. Republicans so believed they would win the Whitehouse that they assumed they could rewrite everything.
 
2012-12-31 03:54:29 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

I would be hit. Don't have a problem with it. Taxes are not a "penalty".

A progressive income tax is.

10/10. For all you would-be trolls... this is the platonic ideal.


Ironically, it's like a progressive trolling.

Adam Smith is clawing at his coffin.
 
2012-12-31 03:54:32 PM  
I just want them to finalize the damn thing so I can decide if I'm better off quitting my job or not.
 
2012-12-31 03:55:49 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I just want them to finalize the damn thing so I can decide if I'm better off quitting my job or not.


Don't do that. How're they going to function with just one guy on fries?
 
2012-12-31 03:56:43 PM  

Orange-Pippin: Wangiss: Orange-Pippin: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Taxes is not a penalty. It's part of living in a civilized non-pit of horse poo. We (about 90% of America) have supported your tax breaks with, cuts to social programs, education, infrastructure (not to mention corporate welfare) for years. It's time to pay your due. Sorry, but as much as you guys think your supporting us, we are tired of supporting you.

...by taking less and less of your money.

For the record, paying taxes is not "taking" anything. As an American I pay up and now it's your turn. Sorry.


That's true. Exacting taxes by threat of incarceration is taking, though. If I sent a couple guys to your house with guns to cart you off to live in a concrete box because you didn't give me money, I'd be a bad guy... unless everybody else says they want your money, too, in which case I'm a very, very good guy. Should a government be established so that no man need fear another? "Hello no! Moar government!!!"
 
2012-12-31 03:56:48 PM  

LL316: Bennie Crabtree: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

That is not "moderately" by any quantitative definition. Perhaps you should look at the basic average incomes of families in the USA to get some perspective on how wealthy you are.

So what? I make around 60k and by noones definition would I be considered poor. Yet I pay next to nothing in income taxes. How is that even remotely fair?


Get married.  That marriage tax penalty is a biatch.  Coming up with $2500 in unexpected tax payments in two months hurts, even when you're pulling down over $80k.
 
2012-12-31 03:57:21 PM  

Infernalist: Fark_Guy_Rob: I just want them to finalize the damn thing so I can decide if I'm better off quitting my job or not.

Don't do that. How're they going to function with just one guy on fries?


Ffs. I hate soggy fries. Keep doing what you're doing, Rob!
 
2012-12-31 03:57:30 PM  

Nabb1: AngryPanda: Wangiss: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

Word.

Meh. Despite that historical speedbump, I think my point still is valid. Whatever happened to doing things for the good of the nation rather than doing them for yourself? Was that the 80s' fault?

During WWII, people of all income levels bought war bonds.  When you prepare your income tax return, there is a place on it for you to pay additional sums above and beyond your tax liability.  If you feel it your civic duty to do more, I encourage you to do so.


Correct me if I'm wrong here, but war bonds are still bonds. You're not giving the money away; just investing it in the government rather than a bank, right?
 
2012-12-31 03:57:50 PM  

Wangiss: AngryPanda: Wangiss: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

Word.

Meh. Despite that historical speedbump, I think my point still is valid. Whatever happened to doing things for the good of the nation rather than doing them for yourself? Was that the 80s' fault?

I dunno. Sexual revolution?


Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
 
2012-12-31 03:58:10 PM  

david_gaithersburg: Lupine Chemist: david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.

While certainly not rich, don't lie and call it low there either. That's on the upper middle class side of things even around there to be sure. Sorry if you moved to Potomac, MD and you "feel" poor, but you don't get to say it's not a lot of money because you don't have any left after spending it all on expensive things.

.
The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


Making 2/3 of your housing value a year isn't low. Most make half or less they're house value.
 
2012-12-31 03:58:25 PM  

Nabb1: When you prepare your income tax return, there is a place on it for you to pay additional sums above and beyond your tax liability. If you feel it your civic duty to do more, I encourage you to do so.


Funding a government using voluntary contributions?  Why not just strip away any pretense and make it a MegaMillions Lottery system? Lots of states already pay for public educational responsibilities this way because they can't be bothered to act like adults. The voluntary part will run actual responsibilities--the mandatory taxation will be redistributed via defense spending and corporate welfare---you know--the important stuff.
 
2012-12-31 03:58:42 PM  

bulldg4life: I'm always amazed at how these threads are filled with people that struggle to understand the progressive tax structure.


I'm always amazed at how people who claim to be rich want to do so little for their country in return. But, honestly I don't believe the wealthy have a nation. They are really Postnational. Arguing economics for "good of the nation" is probably a waste of time.
 
2012-12-31 03:58:47 PM  
Screencap of the behind-the-scenes negotiations:

www.tvchoicemagazine.co.uk

"Members of the Tea Party! I give you ONE last chance. Accept the deal and avert the Fiscal Cliff...."

followed by.....

"....then, I am so so sorry. This will be your undoing, and remember that you did this to yourselves...."
 
2012-12-31 03:59:24 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Oh, stop whining. You act like the country owes you something because you're successful, not the other way around.
 
2012-12-31 03:59:34 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: A deal that doesn't obviate the debt limit, gains a pathetic $800 billion in revenue, and takes an axe to Social Security (which is practically irrelevant to the deficit).

Obama is the worst poker player alive.


I hate to admit it, but I agree with you. I would have rather seen us go off the cliff and come back with DOD cuts and some Medicare cuts and tax rate increase. I voted for Obama bit I was hoping he would be tougher in negotiations. Republicans would get the blame for it anyway so why compromise on key issues like SS?

/IMHO
 
2012-12-31 04:00:14 PM  

McCaesar: Too late for Headline of the Year?


HAHA, yeah, finally an actually funny headline on this site.
 
2012-12-31 04:00:54 PM  

Somacandra: Nabb1: When you prepare your income tax return, there is a place on it for you to pay additional sums above and beyond your tax liability. If you feel it your civic duty to do more, I encourage you to do so.

Funding a government using voluntary contributions?  Why not just strip away any pretense and make it a MegaMillions Lottery system? Lots of states already pay for public educational responsibilities this way because they can't be bothered to act like adults. The voluntary part will run actual responsibilities--the mandatory taxation will be redistributed via defense spending and corporate welfare---you know--the important stuff.


No, if you feel that you really ought to pay more than you are legally required, you are free to do so.  Obviously, some taxation has to be compulsory.
 
2012-12-31 04:00:58 PM  

19 Kilo: Wangiss: AngryPanda: Wangiss: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

Word.

Meh. Despite that historical speedbump, I think my point still is valid. Whatever happened to doing things for the good of the nation rather than doing them for yourself? Was that the 80s' fault?

I dunno. Sexual revolution?

Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


Penis goes where?
 
2012-12-31 04:01:05 PM  

Orange-Pippin: bulldg4life: I'm always amazed at how these threads are filled with people that struggle to understand the progressive tax structure.

I'm always amazed at how people who claim to be rich want to do so little for their country in return. But, honestly I don't believe the wealthy have a nation. They are really Postnational. Arguing economics for "good of the nation" is probably a waste of time.


Hey, donate to the IRS for stuff!

That's why we only send those that vote for war in to battle and when people want to cut spending....we take from them first.
 
2012-12-31 04:01:13 PM  

MindStalker: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.

Making 2/3 of your housing value a year isn't low. Most make half or less they're house value.


Besides the fact that the premise is false. I'm willing to ascribe that to d_g being ignorant and lazy rather than a liar, though.
 
2012-12-31 04:01:16 PM  
I see that Buffet and the hedge fundies still get to hold onto their 15% tax rate. Link
 
2012-12-31 04:01:20 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Wangiss: Nabb1: AngryPanda: Cataholic: Shut up and give 'til it hurts, citizen!

People gave their personal money to the government to use for war efforts in WW2, but you know, because 60 years later paying taxes is considered socialism instead of helping your nation, your joke is hilarious.

I think runaway spending by our own elected officials is a wee bit different that being at war with the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

Word.

Meh. Despite that historical speedbump, I think my point still is valid. Whatever happened to doing things for the good of the nation rather than doing them for yourself? Was that the 80s' fault?

During WWII, people of all income levels bought war bonds.  When you prepare your income tax return, there is a place on it for you to pay additional sums above and beyond your tax liability.  If you feel it your civic duty to do more, I encourage you to do so.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but war bonds are still bonds. You're not giving the money away; just investing it in the government rather than a bank, right?


That's correct. Giving extra in your tax check is a give-away. Buying a bond is an investment and you will get something back, maybe only what you paid, but it's something and it's contractual. His example is no good.
 
2012-12-31 04:01:36 PM  
Income tax rates in Kazakhstan are wicked low.
 
2012-12-31 04:01:54 PM  

thenewmissus: TofuTheAlmighty: A deal that doesn't obviate the debt limit, gains a pathetic $800 billion in revenue, and takes an axe to Social Security (which is practically irrelevant to the deficit).

Obama is the worst poker player alive.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with you. I would have rather seen us go off the cliff and come back with DOD cuts and some Medicare cuts and tax rate increase. I voted for Obama bit I was hoping he would be tougher in negotiations. Republicans would get the blame for it anyway so why compromise on key issues like SS?

/IMHO


but (FTFM).
 
2012-12-31 04:02:16 PM  

Wangiss: Orange-Pippin: Wangiss: Orange-Pippin: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Taxes is not a penalty. It's part of living in a civilized non-pit of horse poo. We (about 90% of America) have supported your tax breaks with, cuts to social programs, education, infrastructure (not to mention corporate welfare) for years. It's time to pay your due. Sorry, but as much as you guys think your supporting us, we are tired of supporting you.

...by taking less and less of your money.

For the record, paying taxes is not "taking" anything. As an American I pay up and now it's your turn. Sorry.

That's true. Exacting taxes by threat of incarceration is taking, though. If I sent a couple guys to your house with guns to cart you off to live in a concrete box because you didn't give me money, I'd be a bad guy... unless everybody else says they want your money, too, in which case I'm a very, very good guy. Should a government be established so that no man need fear another? "Hello no! Moar government!!!"


They don't send you to jail for not paying your taxes. They send you to jail if they can prove you're deliberately trying to cheat the system, i.e. hiding income.
 
2012-12-31 04:02:35 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but war bonds are still bonds. You're not giving the money away; just investing it in the government rather than a bank, right?


I believe you are correct, but I don't think the interest rate is all that terrific.  Treasury bonds pay out a very low rate, but it's tax-free and risk-free.
 
2012-12-31 04:02:44 PM  
This should be posted in anything remotely relevant to the subject.


catmacros.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-31 04:02:45 PM  

Orange-Pippin: bulldg4life: I'm always amazed at how these threads are filled with people that struggle to understand the progressive tax structure.

I'm always amazed at how people who claim to be rich want to do so little for their country in return. But, honestly I don't believe the wealthy have a nation. They are really Postnational. Arguing economics for "good of the nation" is probably a waste of time.


That's one of those epiphanies thinking people have. Why outsource to India when you can start in India? Et voila!
 
2012-12-31 04:02:48 PM  

thenewmissus: TofuTheAlmighty: A deal that doesn't obviate the debt limit, gains a pathetic $800 billion in revenue, and takes an axe to Social Security (which is practically irrelevant to the deficit).

Obama is the worst poker player alive.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with you. I would have rather seen us go off the cliff and come back with DOD cuts and some Medicare cuts and tax rate increase. I voted for Obama bit I was hoping he would be tougher in negotiations. Republicans would get the blame for it anyway so why compromise on key issues like SS?

/IMHO


Ok, I'll bite. What is currently in the works that would affect SS? The republicans in the senate ceded that change late last night. It was off the table. Something change in the past hour?
 
2012-12-31 04:02:52 PM  

Orange-Pippin: bulldg4life: I'm always amazed at how these threads are filled with people that struggle to understand the progressive tax structure.

I'm always amazed at how people who claim to be rich want to do so little for their country in return. But, honestly I don't believe the wealthy have a nation. They are really Postnational. Arguing economics for "good of the nation" is probably a waste of time.


And I'm always amazed by just how many of the non-wealthy will line up to suck some wealthy cock.
 
2012-12-31 04:03:02 PM  
I can't wait to see a deal made at the last hour and Republicans declare victory at averting the fiscal cliff. They will whine a bit about some concessions they had to make but also say it was all they could do against an obstructionist Obama and his democrats. They will then spend the next year doing absolutely nothing till another crisis shows up and they actually have to do work again.
 
2012-12-31 04:03:33 PM  

Orange-Pippin: I'm always amazed at how people who claim to be rich want to do so little for their country in return.


Be not amazed, for this is why they're rich. They work hard, sure, but they also work the angles. They find the outs, they find the breaks, deals, and hiding places. It is what one does who wishes to be rich.
 
2012-12-31 04:04:26 PM  

jfivealive: Pincy: Britney Spear's Speculum: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

One thing Americans can do to live within their means is to not have more children than they can afford. The government can discourage this by penalizing people who have more than 2 children.

Newsletter?

Seriously, stop giving tax breaks for having kids.

With an exemption for people who have twins when they already have one kid, and for people who have triplets. Cause that just wouldn't be fair.


There are no "tax breaks for having kids". Let's say you split your salary among your 3 kids and yourself so that each of you had 1/4 your income. You then filled taxes as single no kids and your kids all did the same, in the vast majority of cases you'd pay less, except you can't do this, they are dependant, your earning salary for all 4 of you.
 
2012-12-31 04:04:44 PM  

Cheesus: Wangiss: Orange-Pippin: Wangiss: Orange-Pippin: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Taxes is not a penalty. It's part of living in a civilized non-pit of horse poo. We (about 90% of America) have supported your tax breaks with, cuts to social programs, education, infrastructure (not to mention corporate welfare) for years. It's time to pay your due. Sorry, but as much as you guys think your supporting us, we are tired of supporting you.

...by taking less and less of your money.

For the record, paying taxes is not "taking" anything. As an American I pay up and now it's your turn. Sorry.

That's true. Exacting taxes by threat of incarceration is taking, though. If I sent a couple guys to your house with guns to cart you off to live in a concrete box because you didn't give me money, I'd be a bad guy... unless everybody else says they want your money, too, in which case I'm a very, very good guy. Should a government be established so that no man need fear another? "Hello no! Moar government!!!"

They don't send you to jail for not paying your taxes. They send you to jail if they can prove you're deliberately trying to cheat the system, i.e. hiding income.


What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?
 
2012-12-31 04:04:49 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


QQ moar
 
2012-12-31 04:04:50 PM  
How could McCain turn into such a low-life?
 
2012-12-31 04:04:58 PM  

david_gaithersburg: Lupine Chemist: david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.

While certainly not rich, don't lie and call it low there either. That's on the upper middle class side of things even around there to be sure. Sorry if you moved to Potomac, MD and you "feel" poor, but you don't get to say it's not a lot of money because you don't have any left after spending it all on expensive things.

.
The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


lolwut? I bought my house in MoCo for $310k - move in ready. It's pretty freakin nice too. It was also the most expensive of the houses I looked at and I looked at a cool 2-3 dozen before settling.

On the other hand, if you're worried about having to pay $350k for a teardown, I can point you to someone who'd be willing to part with a very nice move-in ready house for a cool $400k. Think of how much you'd be saving!
 
2012-12-31 04:05:47 PM  

Pincy: And I'm always amazed by just how many of the non-wealthy will line up to suck some wealthy cock.


Because you can sell that rich-guy jism on the open market for big moneys.
 
2012-12-31 04:05:55 PM  

S. Thistlethwaite @YesBiscuit

Wheeeeeeee! RT @cnbc: BREAKING: The U.S. will go over the fiscal cliff tonight.


Luke Russert @LukeRussert

Official: no vote on fiscal cliff in the House tonight.

 
2012-12-31 04:06:01 PM  

Wangiss: That's true. Exacting taxes by threat of incarceration is taking, though. If I sent a couple guys to your house with guns to cart you off to live in a concrete box because you didn't give me money, I'd be a bad guy... unless everybody else says they want your money, too, in which case I'm a very, very good guy. Should a government be established so that no man need fear another? "Hello no! Moar government!!!"


Zombie Ben Franklin is about to unleash his mighty pimp hand on you.
 
2012-12-31 04:07:33 PM  
It appears there is no vote happening tonight. Great job, idiots.
 
2012-12-31 04:07:39 PM  
i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-31 04:07:42 PM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: Sure, because if they tax your investment returns at that rate, you may as well pull everything out of the market and put it in a bank's interest-bearing checking account at 3%, right? Anything else would just be feeding the welfare babies (and farm subsidies and defense contractors).

How about we quit this charade of earnings, deductions, and taxes already. How about we define any increase in wealth as income and tax it at a flat rate. No more deductions. No more clever definitions of what is income and what is not. None of these bait-and-switch BS scams created by bankers and financiers to keep the rich guy rich and make the rest of us turn his the farking wheel in his factory. They raise the taxes then give us a "deduction" to make us think we're getting away with something. These Flexible Spending Accounts? What a farking shell game THAT crap is. Oh, look! You get to use PRE-tax money to pay for these everyday things you need (and sometimes cannot live without). Such a deal for you. Bullshiat.

You want to give me a deal? Quit the farking carnival "guess my expense" game and just let me submit my farking receipts at the end of the year, deducting it from my taxes. I don't mind spending my taxed money to get the stuff up front, if it all comes out the same at the end, and some farking money manager isn't having fun on my dime while I'm hoping I guessed right and don't end up losing what I over-budgeted.

And quit subsidizing every goddamn thing with the Fed money.


Better yet, how about each business be forced to install 4 chair/desk combos and every Friday, each employee gets their pay, cash-money and then heads to the Federal Income tax station, giving away 1/5 of it or so. They go to the state station and fork over a few more percent. After that, they head over to the local tax magistrate's desk and pay a couple more. Cant forget the Social Security officer, 12% goes to him also. People would shiat kittens.

News to some folks, but politicians have altered the tax code to promote certain behaviors among the population in exchange for 'vote for me, I gave you a tax cut" In any normal world, being married wouldn't be any benefit since every living breathing soul over 18 would have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not they swore their life to someone else. Each person benefits from the protections of the Federal government, thus each should pay. Or as Madison called it - the General Welfare.
 
2012-12-31 04:08:06 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Wangiss: That's true. Exacting taxes by threat of incarceration is taking, though. If I sent a couple guys to your house with guns to cart you off to live in a concrete box because you didn't give me money, I'd be a bad guy... unless everybody else says they want your money, too, in which case I'm a very, very good guy. Should a government be established so that no man need fear another? "Hello no! Moar government!!!"

Zombie Ben Franklin is about to unleash his mighty pimp hand on you.


It's almost as if people have different viewpoints.
 
2012-12-31 04:08:39 PM  
NBC news just reporting we're going over the fiscal cliff.

Good. F*ck the House Republicans. They still don't seem to understand that the president was re-elected, and why.
 
2012-12-31 04:08:48 PM  
CNN has a note that no house vote is expected, but the GOP in the house would be willing to vote tomorrow so they can say they voted to lower taxes since they set up a few hours earlier
 
2012-12-31 04:08:59 PM  

Wangiss: What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?


I failed to file one year. Probably would've been due a return, but never heard anything about it. I don't get SS credit for working that year, I guess.
 
2012-12-31 04:09:45 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Zombie Ben Franklin is about to unleash his mighty pimp hand on you.


Fantastic stuff. I am a-learn-ed.
 
2012-12-31 04:09:46 PM  
It drives the KKK GOP crazy to have a black man in the White House and they strike out blindly in frustration. They have only one goal in mind and that is to destroy our proposistion nation. Then they want to return blacks to slavery and take away the vote from women.

Am I doing it right?
 
2012-12-31 04:10:14 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Moderately successful?  You must really look down on the vast, vast majority of Americans.
 
2012-12-31 04:10:22 PM  

thenewmissus: TofuTheAlmighty: A deal that doesn't obviate the debt limit, gains a pathetic $800 billion in revenue, and takes an axe to Social Security (which is practically irrelevant to the deficit).

Obama is the worst poker player alive.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with you. I would have rather seen us go off the cliff and come back with DOD cuts and some Medicare cuts and tax rate increase. I voted for Obama bit I was hoping he would be tougher in negotiations. Republicans would get the blame for it anyway so why compromise on key issues like SS?

/IMHO


in the fall, the GOP was campaigning for a revenue decrease/"revenue neutral" tax reform and $4 trillion in spending cuts.

after the election, the GOP offers $800 billion in revenue from unspecified tax reform and $2 trillion in spending cuts.

this deal has $1.2 trillion in new revenue, half of which has already been specified, and $1.1 trillion in spending cuts.

Obama's post-election offer was $1.6 trillion in revenue, $400 billion of which was already specified, and $850 billion in spending cuts.

and yet, to the Farklib, Obama is the weak one.

/cognitive dissonance isn't just for teabaggers, obviously.
 
2012-12-31 04:10:53 PM  

Chevello: /I expect the full helping of Fark economist scorn for this one.


Or even by county, but administratively it would be a nightmare for the IRS.
 
2012-12-31 04:10:55 PM  
Taxbongo bin Congo von Rapmaster 2000 just caused the largest tax increase in American history.  Gonna go prep the bomb shelter.  Later, n00bs.
 
2012-12-31 04:11:24 PM  

jigger: Taxes aren't a penalty? WTF is the Obamandate about? How is that enforced? What do they call the tax you are charged for non-compliance? They call it "the penalty."


Because a tax that is  intended asa penalty is not the same as the taxes that are inherently part of society. They are, in fact, different. Much as your IQ score probably is from the left half of the bell curve.
 
2012-12-31 04:11:29 PM  

Coco LaFemme: S. Thistlethwaite @YesBiscuit Wheeeeeeee! RT @cnbc: BREAKING: The U.S. will go over the fiscal cliff tonight.
Luke Russert @LukeRussert Official: no vote on fiscal cliff in the House tonight.


Any particular reasons being given?
 
2012-12-31 04:11:44 PM  

Vectron: It drives the KKK GOP crazy to have a black man in the White House and they strike out blindly in frustration. They have only one goal in mind and that is to destroy our proposistion nation. Then they want to return blacks to slavery and take away the vote from women.

Am I doing it right?


Actually you're almost spot on. Although, they're okay not re-enslaving the blacks as long as they can disenfranchise them along with the ladies.
 
2012-12-31 04:12:15 PM  
The hypocrisy and duplicity of the present republican party will haunt it's members to their dying days, as it should. They are parasites, slaves to dim-witted ideology and the blind hatred of their drooling constituency.
 
2012-12-31 04:12:21 PM  

incendi: Wangiss: What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?

I failed to file one year. Probably would've been due a return, but never heard anything about it. I don't get SS credit for working that year, I guess.


I hope you're okay. People go to jail for not paying their taxes. (Yes, really.)
 
2012-12-31 04:12:22 PM  
No vote in the house tonight, apparently. Off we go.
 
2012-12-31 04:12:27 PM  

david_gaithersburg: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

.
You either do not live on the West Coast or the North East, or you have yet to enter the workforce. $250k is low middle income in the DC region.


Awwww, you're bad with money...
 
2012-12-31 04:12:45 PM  
Can we get confirmation on the deal falling through?
 
2012-12-31 04:13:16 PM  

LasersHurt: Coco LaFemme: S. Thistlethwaite @YesBiscuit Wheeeeeeee! RT @cnbc: BREAKING: The U.S. will go over the fiscal cliff tonight.
Luke Russert @LukeRussert Official: no vote on fiscal cliff in the House tonight.

Any particular reasons being given?


2:14 p.m. (nine hours and 46 minutes to cliff)
House Vote on 'Cliff' Proposal Unlikely Tonight
John Parkinson reports from the House: This afternoon, many of the House GOP's top members - chairmen, whips, leaders, etc. - gathered in the speaker's office to hear the latest on the fiscal cliff negotiations from the speaker. In summary, they're still waiting for the Senate to act, but even if the Senate votes today to successfully avert the cliff, it does not necessarily mean there will be enough time to get something through the House before midnight tonight.
 
2012-12-31 04:13:26 PM  
John McCain is on CNN right now with... Barbara Bush? Wait, that's Lindsey Graham.
 
2012-12-31 04:13:33 PM  

bulldg4life: CNN has a note that no house vote is expected, but the GOP in the house would be willing to vote tomorrow so they can say they voted to lower taxes since they set up a few hours earlier


Comedy: They vote and it still doesn't pass.
 
2012-12-31 04:14:00 PM  

david_gaithersburg: coeyagi: shower_in_my_socks: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


And the cheapest house on Carbon Beach in Malibu is $10M. Won't somebody please think of the "lower middle-class" millionaires living on Carbon Beach? It's a stupid argument. $250k/year is a shiatload of money. I live better than most people I know, in an expensive city, and I make less than half that.

I am not entirely sure why we keep engaging this guy. His math is pretty indicative of the brainfarts of a mongoloid. Because your average mongoloid thinks that the DC region should be the litmus test for tax rates.

.
I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!


No, they wanted you for your awesome spelling, and burning comebacks on Fark.
 
2012-12-31 04:14:10 PM  

Wangiss: I hope you're okay. People go to jail for not paying their taxes. (Yes, really.)


Yeah, I know. It was a decade ago, now, and barring some major screwup in withholding the taxes were in fact paid. I'm not sweatin' it. People do go to jail for not paying taxes, but they get many, many chances to pay or appeal before it gets to that point.
 
2012-12-31 04:14:15 PM  

PsiChick: Because a tax that is  intended asa penalty is not the same as the taxes that are inherently part of society.


the SCOTUS says they are all the same - regardless of how you want to see them.
 
2012-12-31 04:14:34 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Vectron: It drives the KKK GOP crazy to have a black man in the White House and they strike out blindly in frustration. They have only one goal in mind and that is to destroy our proposistion nation. Then they want to return blacks to slavery and take away the vote from women.

Am I doing it right?

Actually you're almost spot on. Although, they're okay not re-enslaving the blacks as long as they can disenfranchise them along with the ladies.


The KKK are Democrats. This has always been the case. It doesn't matter, really. And I'm sure you know the real racist intent of Republican hearts because you majick that way, but the KKK are and always have been Democrats.
 
2012-12-31 04:15:24 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: bulldg4life: CNN has a note that no house vote is expected, but the GOP in the house would be willing to vote tomorrow so they can say they voted to lower taxes since they set up a few hours earlier

Comedy: They vote and it still doesn't pass.


That's been the problem all along. They can't put together a bill that they can pass, no matter what it is.
 
2012-12-31 04:15:31 PM  

Wangiss: The KKK are Democrats. This has always been the case. It doesn't matter, really. And I'm sure you know the real racist intent of Republican hearts because you majick that way, but the KKK are and always have been Democrats.


Not exactly keeping it subtle there, are you?
 
2012-12-31 04:15:36 PM  

Wangiss: Uranus Is Huge!: Vectron: It drives the KKK GOP crazy to have a black man in the White House and they strike out blindly in frustration. They have only one goal in mind and that is to destroy our proposistion nation. Then they want to return blacks to slavery and take away the vote from women.

Am I doing it right?

Actually you're almost spot on. Although, they're okay not re-enslaving the blacks as long as they can disenfranchise them along with the ladies.

The KKK are Democrats. This has always been the case. It doesn't matter, really. And I'm sure you know the real racist intent of Republican hearts because you majick that way, but the KKK are and always have been Democrats.


lol. Funnied.
 
2012-12-31 04:15:44 PM  
 
2012-12-31 04:16:46 PM  
So, it's official? The GOP Tea Derpers aren't allowing a vote tonight?
 
2012-12-31 04:16:55 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: bulldg4life: CNN has a note that no house vote is expected, but the GOP in the house would be willing to vote tomorrow so they can say they voted to lower taxes since they set up a few hours earlier

Comedy: They vote and it still doesn't pass.


10/1 odds. If nothing happens today, nothing happens at least until the 4th. The democrats will (and should) delay it that long. A new house with a significant democrat gain aughta get things going in a dramatic sense.

/friggin comedy gold
 
2012-12-31 04:17:38 PM  

incendi: Yeah, I know. It was a decade ago, now, and barring some major screwup in withholding the taxes were in fact paid. I'm not sweatin' it. People do go to jail for not paying taxes, but they get many, many chances to pay or appeal before it gets to that point.


the government has the ability to garnish your wages/Social security if you dont pay taxes. the guy who is worth $15M can fark off to a foreign country and it wont phase him much. The business owner who is used to making $75k-125k/yr will pay up one way or another
 
2012-12-31 04:17:39 PM  

Get Your Dick Out Of My Food: lenfromak: Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Since when are taxes considered a penalty? Is jury duty a punishment too?


It is when you drop from $120k a year to $30k. ;)
 
2012-12-31 04:18:15 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: They wrote some budgets, and yet we do not have a budget. Weird.

When the Democrat-led Senate keeps rejecting your budget plan, you compromise with them.You DON'T double down on stupidity.


When the Democrat-led Senate wants a budget, they'll get a budget. They do not want a budget.

So is that why the GOP led House sends them budget plans that are nothing more than partisan wankery instead of something serious?



Thank you. Not to mention that the Senate is not fillibuster proof. The Senate doesn't have the votes to pass the Republican lead house budget. The House won't send a serious budget, instead they send crap and then point fingers that the Dems won't pass it. It is a shame what we have in Washington DC these days. And to think, Congress is getting a raise this year after being the most non-productive congress since records have been kept. Shameful.
 
2012-12-31 04:19:17 PM  

LasersHurt: Wangiss: The KKK are Democrats. This has always been the case. It doesn't matter, really. And I'm sure you know the real racist intent of Republican hearts because you majick that way, but the KKK are and always have been Democrats.

Not exactly keeping it subtle there, are you?


Not sure what you're getting at. I'm not a Democrat or a Republican. It's just a stupid thing that gets passed around by those ignorant of history. The history of the Civil War and Jim Crow and all that. It's important, historically, but has little or no bearing on current events.
 
2012-12-31 04:19:22 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Wangiss: Uranus Is Huge!: Vectron: It drives the KKK GOP crazy to have a black man in the White House and they strike out blindly in frustration. They have only one goal in mind and that is to destroy our proposistion nation. Then they want to return blacks to slavery and take away the vote from women.

Am I doing it right?

Actually you're almost spot on. Although, they're okay not re-enslaving the blacks as long as they can disenfranchise them along with the ladies.

The KKK are Democrats. This has always been the case. It doesn't matter, really. And I'm sure you know the real racist intent of Republican hearts because you majick that way, but the KKK are and always have been Democrats.

lol. Funnied.


The truth is more funny than comedy sometimes.
 
2012-12-31 04:20:10 PM  

thenewmissus: The House won't send a serious budget, instead they send crap and then point fingers that the Dems won't pass it.


to Democrats, anything less than a $1.3TN yearly deficit is "partisan wankery"
 
2012-12-31 04:20:54 PM  
I thought that bills start in the house and then go to the senate. Serious question: When did this change?
 
2012-12-31 04:20:58 PM  

o5iiawah: News to some folks, but politicians have altered the tax code to promote certain behaviors among the population in exchange for 'vote for me, I gave you a tax cut"


And this is precisely what I'm raving about. Cut the mortgage interest deduction? Sure! People will wail and gnash their teeth but do fark-all about it. The banks have spent the last 50 years flooding the real estate market with capital such that you can't buy a house now without 'em. There are far too many Homelanders (myself included) bought into that shiatty racket and did so BECAUSE of the deduction.
It cost me the same to rent as to pay a mortgage but with the mortgage I got Sweet Deductions. My behavior was directly influenced by tax policy. Bullshiat.
 
2012-12-31 04:21:08 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Paying taxes is not a penalty it's part of living in civil society. Man up and pay your share or move to as mother country.
 
2012-12-31 04:21:50 PM  

thenewmissus: Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: Mrtraveler01: Wangiss: They wrote some budgets, and yet we do not have a budget. Weird.

When the Democrat-led Senate keeps rejecting your budget plan, you compromise with them.You DON'T double down on stupidity.


When the Democrat-led Senate wants a budget, they'll get a budget. They do not want a budget.

So is that why the GOP led House sends them budget plans that are nothing more than partisan wankery instead of something serious?


Thank you. Not to mention that the Senate is not fillibuster proof. The Senate doesn't have the votes to pass the Republican lead house budget. The House won't send a serious budget, instead they send crap and then point fingers that the Dems won't pass it. It is a shame what we have in Washington DC these days. And to think, Congress is getting a raise this year after being the most non-productive congress since records have been kept. Shameful.


All they have to do is retain their power. That's their job, and they do it with hysterics and hyperbole. They're all millionaires; what do they care?
 
2012-12-31 04:21:57 PM  

o5iiawah: thenewmissus: The House won't send a serious budget, instead they send crap and then point fingers that the Dems won't pass it.

to Democrats, anything less than a $1.3TN yearly deficit is "partisan wankery"


Curse you, Bill Clinton!
 
2012-12-31 04:23:16 PM  
Who here really thinks the House is going to go along with this deal? Anyone? Hello? Is this thing on?
 
2012-12-31 04:23:59 PM  

bartink: Who here really thinks the House is going to go along with this deal? Anyone? Hello? Is this thing on?


Exactly. What's the story on the House and this deal?
 
2012-12-31 04:24:04 PM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: It cost me the same to rent as to pay a mortgage but with the mortgage I got Sweet Deductions. My behavior was directly influenced by tax policy. Bullshiat.


Presumably, market forces would drive the price down were the deduction not their to boost demand. So either way you get the house, but now the banks get more profit.
 
2012-12-31 04:24:36 PM  

bartink: Who here really thinks the House is going to go along with this deal? Anyone? Hello? Is this thing on?


I give it a 47% chance.
Really, that's not just a joke.
It's a joke, too, but not a funny one.
 
2012-12-31 04:24:57 PM  

incendi: their to boost demand


there, goddamnit. [bobtheflower.jpg]
 
2012-12-31 04:25:49 PM  

o5iiawah: News to some folks, but politicians have altered the tax code to promote certain behaviors among the population in exchange for 'vote for me, I gave you a tax cut" In any normal world, being married wouldn't be any benefit since every living breathing soul over 18 would have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not they swore their life to someone else. Each person benefits from the protections of the Federal government, thus each should pay. Or as Madison called it - the General Welfare.


Its more than that. Rather than mandating behaviors more beneficial to the 'General Welfare,' the U.S. has chosen to incentivize these behaviors. In the U.S. home ownership has traditionally built more stable communities than rentals. Same with marriage versus being single. Optimizing these behaviors means fewer police interventions and frankly, longer and healthier life spans (for men anyway.) Thus less burden for police and emergency medical intervention and so forth and so on. You want to live in a way that potentially hits all of us more in the pocketbook and quality of life? Fine, but you'll pay more for doing so. We can dispute the wisdom of using the tax code to strengthen the social welfare like this, but this is how the USA has historically chosen to do this.
 
2012-12-31 04:26:30 PM  

Wangiss: It's just a stupid thing that gets passed around by those ignorant of history. The history of the Civil War and Jim Crow and all that. It's important, historically, but has little or no bearing on current events.


It's even more stupid to try to conflate the Democratic Party of the 1860's with the Democratic Party of today.
 
2012-12-31 04:27:19 PM  

Somacandra: o5iiawah: News to some folks, but politicians have altered the tax code to promote certain behaviors among the population in exchange for 'vote for me, I gave you a tax cut" In any normal world, being married wouldn't be any benefit since every living breathing soul over 18 would have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not they swore their life to someone else. Each person benefits from the protections of the Federal government, thus each should pay. Or as Madison called it - the General Welfare.

Its more than that. Rather than mandating behaviors more beneficial to the 'General Welfare,' the U.S. has chosen to incentivize these behaviors. In the U.S. home ownership has traditionally built more stable communities than rentals. Same with marriage versus being single. Optimizing these behaviors means fewer police interventions and frankly, longer and healthier life spans (for men anyway.) Thus less burden for police and emergency medical intervention and so forth and so on. You want to live in a way that potentially hits all of us more in the pocketbook and quality of life? Fine, but you'll pay more for doing so. We can dispute the wisdom of using the tax code to strengthen the social welfare like this, but this is how the USA has historically chosen to do this.


"Historically" is a funny word to use in this context.
 
2012-12-31 04:27:55 PM  

midigod: Wangiss: It's just a stupid thing that gets passed around by those ignorant of history. The history of the Civil War and Jim Crow and all that. It's important, historically, but has little or no bearing on current events.

It's even more stupid to try to conflate the Democratic Party of the 1860's with the Democratic Party of today.


What someone was doing was conflating the Democratic Party of the 1860s with the Republican Party of today.
 
2012-12-31 04:27:55 PM  
Boehner still doesn't have the votes.  At least he did a count before he took it to the floor this time.
 
2012-12-31 04:28:14 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Taxbongo bin Congo von Rapmaster 2000 just caused the largest tax increase in American history.  Gonna go prep the bomb shelter.  Later, n00bs.


See you on the other side, you magnificent bastard, you!
 
2012-12-31 04:28:24 PM  

o5iiawah: thenewmissus: The House won't send a serious budget, instead they send crap and then point fingers that the Dems won't pass it.

to Democrats, anything less than a $1.3TN yearly deficit is "partisan wankery"


Let's cut spending (minus defense where it makse up 33% of the budget), increase it instead and cut taxes.

We'll balance that budget in no time!!!
 
2012-12-31 04:28:34 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: It also worked as the Dems kept control of the House and gained more governorship seats in 2012.


You mean the Senate, right?
 
2012-12-31 04:29:30 PM  

Kuroshin: Mike_LowELL: Taxbongo bin Congo von Rapmaster 2000 just caused the largest tax increase in American history.  Gonna go prep the bomb shelter.  Later, n00bs.

See you on the other side, you magnificent bastard, you!



Yeah, that was inspired.
 
2012-12-31 04:30:03 PM  
schneide.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-31 04:30:34 PM  
I'd like to throw Wolf Blitzer off a cliff.
 
2012-12-31 04:30:34 PM  

Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.


If by simple you mean stupid, sure. Unless this American you're envisioning has the power to print his own money.

Know what else is really farking stupid? That with interest rates at essentially negative right now, the gov't is failing to borrow all they can get their hands on and use it for infrastructure projects. That's truly retarded.
 
2012-12-31 04:31:12 PM  
In summary:

Personal income: $400K
Household income: $450K
House GOP: lol, we're not voting

/rip
 
2012-12-31 04:31:36 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Screencap of the behind-the-scenes negotiations:

[www.tvchoicemagazine.co.uk image 300x270]

"Members of the Tea Party! I give you ONE last chance. Accept the deal and avert the Fiscal Cliff...."

followed by.....

"....then, I am so so sorry. This will be your undoing, and remember that you did this to yourselves...."


Wrong Doctor. Tennant gave you warnings. Smith just kicks your ass.
 
2012-12-31 04:31:57 PM  

Evil High Priest: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

If by simple you mean stupid, sure. Unless this American you're envisioning has the power to print his own money.

Know what else is really farking stupid? That with interest rates at essentially negative right now, the gov't is failing to borrow all they can get their hands on and use it for infrastructure projects. That's truly retarded.


Agreed on all counts. We'd all be better off in this discussion if people didn't insist on trying to equate national economics with some fool making a weekly paycheck.

It's not the same farking thing.
 
2012-12-31 04:31:58 PM  

Evil High Priest: Unless this American you're envisioning has the power to print his own money.


Who knew the solution was so simple?
 
2012-12-31 04:32:22 PM  

Wangiss: incendi: Wangiss: What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?

I failed to file one year. Probably would've been due a return, but never heard anything about it. I don't get SS credit for working that year, I guess.

I hope you're okay. People go to jail for not paying their taxes. (Yes, really.)


No, not really. There are no criminal penalties for simply not paying. Attempting to defraud the IRS can get you in jail, but simply not paying will at worst get your wages garnished or a private collection agency sent after you.

If you own on your taxes and you simply fail to file a tax return on time you get fined, not jail time. If you are owed a refund, there is no fine.
 
2012-12-31 04:32:41 PM  

Gosling: Wrong Doctor. Tennant gave you warnings. Smith just kicks your ass.


Ain't nobody got time for that... not even a time lord.
 
2012-12-31 04:33:16 PM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: It cost me the same to rent as to pay a mortgage but with the mortgage I got Sweet Deductions. My behavior was directly influenced by tax policy.


And that is precisely by design. High concentrations of rental properties are associated with more kinds of State intervention in the USA (not in Europe or necessarily elsewhere). When you own, you have an incentive to keep and maintain the property and the people there than when you just rent. Same thing with marriage. Unmarried people in the U.S. (especially men)  live shorter, nastier and more brutish lives (to invoke Thomas Hobbes) and they cost the State (meaning the rest of us) disproportionately more to deal with. Therefore productive behaviors that contribute to social stability are incentivized, and those that tend to detract from stability are dis-incentivized and accounted for with the extra taxes. Or so the story is designed to go.
 
2012-12-31 04:33:47 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: 400/450k cutoff now? I wonder how much nothing Dems got in return for that bullshiat.


Sound like a typical lib who just wants to punish successful people instead of fix the problem. Way to go.

Just sad. People like you and your bunch, if were around in the past, would have just kissed Britain's butt and the US would not even be.
 
2012-12-31 04:34:15 PM  

GoldSpider: Evil High Priest: Unless this American you're envisioning has the power to print his own money.

Who knew the solution was so simple?


Well, it really is. If that person is both immortal and mostly indestructible and shows both restraint in printing his money 'and' shows remarkable ability to repay his debts 'and' is the biggest bastard on the block and no one wants to mess with him.

Come to think of it, it's not at all the same thing, really.
 
2012-12-31 04:34:50 PM  
Wolf Blitzer just announced on TV that the House of Representatives has adjourned and will not reconvene.

Assholes.

Anything to make the n*gger look bad, right Bohner?
 
2012-12-31 04:35:13 PM  

Wangiss: "Historically" is a funny word to use in this context.


Why? This has been an ongoing debate long before the United States even existed. And its been part of our intellectual political culture especially since the major expansion of the Federal government with the Civil War.
 
2012-12-31 04:35:17 PM  

ChuDogg: Personally I'm rooting for the fiscal cliff.

 
2012-12-31 04:35:17 PM  

vernonFL: RIP Cliff

[userserve-ak.last.fm image 500x322]


Goddammit this is the third time today someone with superior internets has made the corny joke I intended to. And I'm not even a Metallica fan.

/tiny fist, etc...
 
2012-12-31 04:35:49 PM  

Great_Milenko: Wolf Blitzer just announced on TV that the House of Representatives has adjourned and will not reconvene.

Assholes.

Anything to make the n*gger look bad, right Bohner?


RECESS APPOINT *ALL* THE POSITIONS!
 
2012-12-31 04:36:06 PM  

Thunderpipes: Shrugging Atlas: 400/450k cutoff now? I wonder how much nothing Dems got in return for that bullshiat.

Sound like a typical lib who just wants to punish successful people instead of fix the problem. Way to go.

Just sad. People like you and your bunch, if were around in the past, would have just kissed Britain's butt and the US would not even be.


How the fark did you get off my ignore list?

fyi, I only ignore the obviously bad trolls.
 
2012-12-31 04:36:06 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-31 04:36:09 PM  
Welp, over the cliff we go. I can has torches and pitchforks now??
 
2012-12-31 04:36:27 PM  

sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx


The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?
 
2012-12-31 04:37:16 PM  

Thunderpipes: Shrugging Atlas: 400/450k cutoff now? I wonder how much nothing Dems got in return for that bullshiat.

Sound like a typical lib who just wants to punish successful people instead of fix the problem. Way to go.

Just sad. People like you and your bunch, if were around in the past, would have just kissed Britain's butt and the US would not even be.


Well done. Simplistic, stupid and to the point. I'd have given you 7 out of 10 but for the last part questioning the patriotism of someone for having the gall to have a different opinion

8/10
 
2012-12-31 04:37:25 PM  
We will be left with "change".
 
2012-12-31 04:37:47 PM  
So, it's official, huh?

Good. I wasn't looking forward to a 'deal just to make a deal'. Let's all hold hands and jump off the cliff and see how bad the damage is when we hit bottom.
 
2012-12-31 04:38:33 PM  

Infernalist: Good. I wasn't looking forward to a 'deal just to make a deal'. Let's all hold hands and jump off the cliff and see how bad the damage is when we hit bottom.


Hopefully I can get some money in my brokerage account before they work something out.
 
2012-12-31 04:38:36 PM  

DeltaPunch: In summary:

Personal income: $400K
Household income: $450K
House GOP: lol, we're not voting We won't talk anymore


/Cliff
 
2012-12-31 04:38:38 PM  

Thrag: Wangiss: incendi: Wangiss: What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?

I failed to file one year. Probably would've been due a return, but never heard anything about it. I don't get SS credit for working that year, I guess.

I hope you're okay. People go to jail for not paying their taxes. (Yes, really.)

No, not really. There are no criminal penalties for simply not paying. Attempting to defraud the IRS can get you in jail, but simply not paying will at worst get your wages garnished or a private collection agency sent after you.

If you own on your taxes and you simply fail to file a tax return on time you get fined, not jail time. If you are owed a refund, there is no fine.



26 USC § 7203:
Any person required under this title to pay any estimated tax or tax, or required by this title or by regulations made under authority thereof to make a return, keep any records, or supply any information, who willfully fails to pay such estimated tax or tax, make such return, keep such records, or supply such information, at the time or times required by law or regulations, shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $25,000 ($100,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. In the case of any person with respect to whom there is a failure to pay any estimated tax, this section shall not apply to such person with respect to such failure if there is no addition to tax under section 6654 or 6655 with respect to such failure. In the case of a willful violation of any provision of section 6050I, the first sentence of this section shall be applied by substituting "felony" for "misdemeanor" and "5 years" for "1 year".


/Link
 
2012-12-31 04:38:48 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


Well, my sister and her husband are hard working people who make 248k a year and I'm just fine with this deal.

My anecdote negates your own.
 
2012-12-31 04:38:52 PM  
I hear castor oil helps, grease the skids if you will.
 
2012-12-31 04:39:01 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


They shouldn't pay more. I'd be happy if they paid the same percentage in taxes on the same percentage of income that I do.
 
2012-12-31 04:39:34 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


That doesn't add up. Teachers make $45-70k and supervisors for floor sealant companies don't make $150-200k a year.

Oh wait, was your post sarcasm?
 
2012-12-31 04:39:44 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


If they make $260k, and the rate is set for $250k and above, they're going to pay an additional 4% on $10,000 in income, or $400, or $33 a month. Boo farkin' hoo.
 
2012-12-31 04:39:50 PM  

Thrag: Wangiss: incendi: Wangiss: What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?

I failed to file one year. Probably would've been due a return, but never heard anything about it. I don't get SS credit for working that year, I guess.

I hope you're okay. People go to jail for not paying their taxes. (Yes, really.)

No, not really. There are no criminal penalties for simply not paying. Attempting to defraud the IRS can get you in jail, but simply not paying will at worst get your wages garnished or a private collection agency sent after you.

If you own on your taxes and you simply fail to file a tax return on time you get fined, not jail time. If you are owed a refund, there is no fine.


And if you don't pay the fine? Or are we living in a voluntary tax system? (Answer: no.) Yes, people go to jail for not paying taxes.
 
2012-12-31 04:40:02 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


They'll only pay the additional tax on the last 10K. You know that was in the proposal, right? The tax rates only kick in after the maximum income of the previous bracket.
 
2012-12-31 04:40:18 PM  

Great_Milenko: Wolf Blitzer just announced on TV that the House of Representatives has adjourned and will not reconvene.

Assholes.

Anything to make the n*gger look bad, right Bohner?


Except that this actually makes the Dems look better by comparison.  Instead of bothering to vote for anything at all, they decided to just pack up and go home.
 
2012-12-31 04:41:46 PM  

Somacandra: Unmarried people in the U.S. (especially men) live shorter, nastier and more brutish lives (to invoke Thomas Hobbes) and they cost the State (meaning the rest of us) disproportionately more to deal with.


How does that figure? Income tax rates on single individuals are higher. Not to mention the whole lack of the single biggest cost to society most people ever create - another person. Single people, directly or indirectly, pay property taxes their entire adult lives that contribute to the cost of educating all of those kids those ideal married couples are pumping out, for example.
 
2012-12-31 04:41:54 PM  

Somacandra: Wangiss: "Historically" is a funny word to use in this context.

Why? This has been an ongoing debate long before the United States even existed. And its been part of our intellectual political culture especially since the major expansion of the Federal government with the Civil War.


Well, if America has been doing it since before it was founded, I guess you're right. Nevermind.
 
2012-12-31 04:41:55 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


So they're paying 2% more in taxes on $10k?  You're griping about $200/yr?

Fark you.
 
2012-12-31 04:42:22 PM  
This down-to-the-wire mess feels like kabuki theater just so both sides can get away with making big cuts in Social Security and Medicare without having to take the blame for it.
 
2012-12-31 04:42:26 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


You're scoffing at an additional 3% (IIRC) of $10k. That's it
 
2012-12-31 04:42:33 PM  
Currently on CNN: How dare that black fella crack jokes during this fictional "crisis."
 
2012-12-31 04:42:47 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


They have to pay more because the society they are a part of needs it, and they're fortunate enough to be amongst the wealthy who can afford it.

If they share your ignorant views and talking points, go fark off to Mexico. Oh wait, there isn't a society there for them to earn 260K a year is there?
 
2012-12-31 04:42:49 PM  

Oznog: OK can someone explain the Fiscal Cliff deadlines to me?

Cause if this happens, it looks like it's gonna happen that some time zones that meet a midnight Dec 31st deadline and not others.

"Well, it looks like the Eastern seaboard has gone over the Fiscal Cliff, we managed to save Mountain and Pacific. Central was lost to the Fiscal Cliff by only 38 seconds. Bravely, Obama had jumped to the edge and caught it by a single hand, yet ultimately the weight of an entire time zone already passed proved too great. The anguish on his face was palpable as his solid grasp slipped from wrist to hand and then only fingertips and then slipped and he could do nothing but watch it freefall and bash on the rocks below and be dragged off by the crashing waves lapping at the rocks."


More likely, what Obama will do to the GOP if the Tea Party sabotages this deal.

i1282.photobucket.com

Yippy kay yea motherfarkers
 
2012-12-31 04:42:59 PM  

Wangiss: Thrag: Wangiss: incendi: Wangiss: What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?

I failed to file one year. Probably would've been due a return, but never heard anything about it. I don't get SS credit for working that year, I guess.

I hope you're okay. People go to jail for not paying their taxes. (Yes, really.)

No, not really. There are no criminal penalties for simply not paying. Attempting to defraud the IRS can get you in jail, but simply not paying will at worst get your wages garnished or a private collection agency sent after you.

If you own on your taxes and you simply fail to file a tax return on time you get fined, not jail time. If you are owed a refund, there is no fine.

And if you don't pay the fine? Or are we living in a voluntary tax system? (Answer: no.) Yes, people go to jail for not paying taxes.


Citation Needed

Name a few.  Difficulty: Can't be for Tax Evasion.
 
2012-12-31 04:42:59 PM  

Active introvert: Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


Is that what you think is going on with the federal deficit?

Serious question, do you have any clue the relative amounts spent in the federal budget on various programs?
 
2012-12-31 04:43:19 PM  

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


If you make 250k or more you make many times the average income. Stop complaining.
 
2012-12-31 04:43:30 PM  

Kuroshin: Great_Milenko: Wolf Blitzer just announced on TV that the House of Representatives has adjourned and will not reconvene.

Assholes.

Anything to make the n*gger look bad, right Bohner?

Except that this actually makes the Dems look better by comparison.  Instead of bothering to vote for anything at all, they decided to just pack up and go home.


Pretty much. When they were faced with making a deal with the President or simply taking their ball and going home...they took their ball and went home.

Best part? This is pretty much what the President was hoping for. He was banking on them not passing a deal while he did his level best to look as moderate and compromising and generous as possible, knowing they'd never work with him.

At the end of the day, what will be remembered is the President offering deal after deal and the GOP walking away and letting taxes go up on EVERYONE.
 
2012-12-31 04:43:32 PM  

Infernalist: Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?

Well, my sister and her husband are hard working people who make 248k a year and I'm just fine with this deal.

My anecdote negates your own.


I'm sure you are since it's not your money. It's your sisters.
 
2012-12-31 04:43:52 PM  
Crap... I just got trolled

/welcometofark.jpg
 
2012-12-31 04:44:01 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


It's only like 3.0% for the the 10K above $260K. So, $3K? That will break them? I find it difficult to believe.
 
2012-12-31 04:44:50 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


They have to pay more because the society they are a part of needs it, and they're fortunate enough to be amongst the wealthy who can afford it.

If they share your ignorant views and talking points, go fark off to Mexico. Oh wait, there isn't a society there for them to earn 260K a year is there?

Benalto: Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?

They'll only pay the additional tax on the last 10K. You know that was in the proposal, right? The tax rates only kick in after the maximum income of the previous bracket.


That doesn't matter to him, because you see, they EARNED it, they EARNED it, do you understand?

Also people who are unemployed don't want to work, so it's their own fault.
 
2012-12-31 04:44:57 PM  

djkutch: It's only like 3.0% for the the 10K above $260K. So, $3K? That will break them? I find it difficult to believe.


Not 3k, 300 dollars that they can probably find a way to write off.
 
2012-12-31 04:45:01 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


So your sister and her husband have not taken advantage of any government entitlement, at all, ever, in their entire lives?
 
2012-12-31 04:45:04 PM  

Zeno-25: [i.imgur.com image 500x413]


While I like the spine cartoon, I also have some - not a lot but some - faith in Obama's chess skills that are sometimes mistaken for weakness. We all want a Teddy Roosevelt-style motherf*cker to work on holmes here with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch, but we often miss the nuances of Obama's game. At least I do.

I never bought into the "long game" excuse for his performance in the first debate, but I know this man has wits that would shatter mine in five minutes. Let's see how this term turns out.
 
2012-12-31 04:45:07 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


api.ning.com
 
2012-12-31 04:45:27 PM  
Poor Republicans are all mad because Obama said mean things to them, and they're going to take their ball and go home? Poor babies.

There are three year old autistic children with more emotional maturity than Congressional Republicans.

Hell, I think a three year old autistic child being led around by a ten week old puppy on a leash would make a better Speaker of the House than Boehner.
 
2012-12-31 04:45:30 PM  
a deal will be done and no one will be perfectly happy about it, the repubs will be the least happy but they painted themselves into a corner and have no escape they are damned if the do and damned if they don't.
 
2012-12-31 04:45:49 PM  

jigger: Taxes aren't a penalty? WTF is the Obamandate about? How is that enforced? What do they call the tax you are charged for non-compliance? They call it "the penalty."


There is such a thing as a tax penalty; however, this does not make taxes, themselves, a penalty.
 
2012-12-31 04:45:58 PM  

Kuroshin: Wangiss: Thrag: Wangiss: incendi: Wangiss: What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?

I failed to file one year. Probably would've been due a return, but never heard anything about it. I don't get SS credit for working that year, I guess.

I hope you're okay. People go to jail for not paying their taxes. (Yes, really.)

No, not really. There are no criminal penalties for simply not paying. Attempting to defraud the IRS can get you in jail, but simply not paying will at worst get your wages garnished or a private collection agency sent after you.

If you own on your taxes and you simply fail to file a tax return on time you get fined, not jail time. If you are owed a refund, there is no fine.

And if you don't pay the fine? Or are we living in a voluntary tax system? (Answer: no.) Yes, people go to jail for not paying taxes.

Citation Needed

Name a few.  Difficulty: Can't be for Tax Evasion.


Someone already posted it. Thanks for playing.
 
2012-12-31 04:46:03 PM  

Infernalist: Pretty much. When they were faced with making a deal with the President or simply taking their ball and going home...they took their ball and went home.

Best part? This is pretty much what the President was hoping for. He was banking on them not passing a deal while he did his level best to look as moderate and compromising and generous as possible, knowing they'd never work with him.

At the end of the day, what will be remembered is the President offering deal after deal and the GOP walking away and letting taxes go up on EVERYONE.


And once again, this is why liberals need to chill out.  Obama knows who he's dealing with now and he's playing the GOP like a fiddle.
 
2012-12-31 04:46:46 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Crap... I just got trolled

/welcometofark.jpg


Yup.

/I bet they don't even have a sister.
 
2012-12-31 04:47:16 PM  

grimlock1972: a deal will be done and no one will be perfectly happy about it, the repubs will be the least happy but they painted themselves into a corner and have no escape they are damned if the do and damned if they don't.


The House is adjourned and the GOP is going home. The deal isn't gonna happen unless Boehner can force them to come back in and vote.
 
2012-12-31 04:47:47 PM  

Mentat: Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?

So your sister and her husband have not taken advantage of any government entitlement, at all, ever, in their entire lives?


The government loves entitlements because they can always adjust the price after the fact.
 
2012-12-31 04:48:10 PM  

o5iiawah: PsiChick: Because a tax that is  intended asa penalty is not the same as the taxes that are inherently part of society.

the SCOTUS says they are all the same - regardless of how you want to see them.


Reeeeaaallly. And I suppose the SCOTUS doesn't distinguish between 'vice taxes' (not sure if that's the right word) on tobacco\unhealthy foods and paycheck taxes either...

...No, wait, I actually believe that.

/However, that doesn't mean there isn't an ocean of difference.
 
2012-12-31 04:48:14 PM  

Wangiss: Kuroshin: Wangiss: Thrag: Wangiss: incendi: Wangiss: What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?

I failed to file one year. Probably would've been due a return, but never heard anything about it. I don't get SS credit for working that year, I guess.

I hope you're okay. People go to jail for not paying their taxes. (Yes, really.)

No, not really. There are no criminal penalties for simply not paying. Attempting to defraud the IRS can get you in jail, but simply not paying will at worst get your wages garnished or a private collection agency sent after you.

If you own on your taxes and you simply fail to file a tax return on time you get fined, not jail time. If you are owed a refund, there is no fine.

And if you don't pay the fine? Or are we living in a voluntary tax system? (Answer: no.) Yes, people go to jail for not paying taxes.

Citation Needed

Name a few.  Difficulty: Can't be for Tax Evasion.

Someone already posted it. Thanks for playing.


Anything I can CTRL + F for?  This thread's kinda dense to hunt back through manually.
 
2012-12-31 04:48:23 PM  

Mentat: So your sister and her husband have not taken advantage of any government entitlement, at all, ever, in their entire lives?


Well they are entitled to it since they aren't a bunch of MOOCHERS!!11!
 
2012-12-31 04:48:55 PM  
Also, Hilary's blood clot is in her head.

Unleash the Tinfoil!
 
2012-12-31 04:49:23 PM  

Wangiss: The government loves entitlements because they can always adjust the price after the fact.


What does that mean?
 
2012-12-31 04:49:29 PM  

Evil High Priest: Jake Steed: Government should do what a responsible American would do in the same situation. STOP spending so much and live within your means, its all very simple.

If by simple you mean stupid, sure. Unless this American you're envisioning has the power to print his own money.

Know what else is really farking stupid? That with interest rates at essentially negative right now, the gov't is failing to borrow all they can get their hands on and use it for infrastructure projects. That's truly retarded.


"For every complex problem there is a solution which is simple, neat and wrong." - H.L. Mencken
 
2012-12-31 04:49:32 PM  

Infernalist: grimlock1972: a deal will be done and no one will be perfectly happy about it, the repubs will be the least happy but they painted themselves into a corner and have no escape they are damned if the do and damned if they don't.

The House is adjourned and the GOP is going home. The deal isn't gonna happen unless Boehner can force them to come back in and vote.


i2.cdn.turner.com

Not only did they go home, they took his lunch money with them. Again.
/hot
 
2012-12-31 04:49:48 PM  

The Larch: Poor Republicans are all mad because Obama said mean things to them, and they're going to take their ball and go home? Poor babies.

There are three year old autistic children with more emotional maturity than Congressional Republicans.

Hell, I think a three year old autistic child being led around by a ten week old puppy on a leash would make a better Speaker of the House than Boehner.


As a three-year-old autistic child, I wonder whether to take your comment as an insult. I just don't know.
 
2012-12-31 04:50:39 PM  

Wangiss: The Larch: Poor Republicans are all mad because Obama said mean things to them, and they're going to take their ball and go home? Poor babies.

There are three year old autistic children with more emotional maturity than Congressional Republicans.

Hell, I think a three year old autistic child being led around by a ten week old puppy on a leash would make a better Speaker of the House than Boehner.

As a three-year-old autistic child, I wonder whether to take your comment as an insult. I just don't know.


wut u did thar, I SEE IT
 
2012-12-31 04:50:39 PM  

Somacandra: o5iiawah: News to some folks, but politicians have altered the tax code to promote certain behaviors among the population in exchange for 'vote for me, I gave you a tax cut" In any normal world, being married wouldn't be any benefit since every living breathing soul over 18 would have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not they swore their life to someone else. Each person benefits from the protections of the Federal government, thus each should pay. Or as Madison called it - the General Welfare.

Its more than that. Rather than mandating behaviors more beneficial to the 'General Welfare,' the U.S. has chosen to incentivize these behaviors. In the U.S. home ownership has traditionally built more stable communities than rentals. Same with marriage versus being single. Optimizing these behaviors means fewer police interventions and frankly, longer and healthier life spans (for men anyway.) Thus less burden for police and emergency medical intervention and so forth and so on. You want to live in a way that potentially hits all of us more in the pocketbook and quality of life? Fine, but you'll pay more for doing so. We can dispute the wisdom of using the tax code to strengthen the social welfare like this, but this is how the USA has historically chosen to do this.


Going kinda off-topic here (but what else is new, hello Fark) -- violent crime has dropped so far and so fast that it's impossible to ascribe it to any one factor. Did five times as many couples get married since 1991? Of course not. I agree with everything you said, though. The five-fold drop in violent crime is a welcome but puzzling development.

www.motherjones.com
 
2012-12-31 04:51:29 PM  

bartink: djkutch: It's only like 3.0% for the the 10K above $260K. So, $3K? That will break them? I find it difficult to believe.

Not 3k, 300 dollars that they can probably find a way to write off.


I suck at math.

Well, then. What is the all the gnashing of the teeth about.
 
2012-12-31 04:51:47 PM  

Kuroshin: Wangiss: Kuroshin: Wangiss: Thrag: Wangiss: incendi: Wangiss: What do they do if you don't pay your taxes?

I failed to file one year. Probably would've been due a return, but never heard anything about it. I don't get SS credit for working that year, I guess.

I hope you're okay. People go to jail for not paying their taxes. (Yes, really.)

No, not really. There are no criminal penalties for simply not paying. Attempting to defraud the IRS can get you in jail, but simply not paying will at worst get your wages garnished or a private collection agency sent after you.

If you own on your taxes and you simply fail to file a tax return on time you get fined, not jail time. If you are owed a refund, there is no fine.

And if you don't pay the fine? Or are we living in a voluntary tax system? (Answer: no.) Yes, people go to jail for not paying taxes.

Citation Needed

Name a few.  Difficulty: Can't be for Tax Evasion.

Someone already posted it. Thanks for playing.

Anything I can CTRL + F for?  This thread's kinda dense to hunt back through manually.


Are you a welfare recipient? (jklol)
 
2012-12-31 04:52:38 PM  

djkutch: bartink: djkutch: It's only like 3.0% for the the 10K above $260K. So, $3K? That will break them? I find it difficult to believe.

Not 3k, 300 dollars that they can probably find a way to write off.

I suck at math.

Well, then. What is the all the gnashing of the teeth about.


Rich people didn't get rich by being free and easy with their money. It's a mental disorder akin to food hoarding.
 
2012-12-31 04:53:29 PM  

djkutch: I suck at math.

Well, then. What is the all the gnashing of the teeth about.


Foxnews syndrome.
 
2012-12-31 04:53:52 PM  

StopLurkListen: Somacandra: o5iiawah: News to some folks, but politicians have altered the tax code to promote certain behaviors among the population in exchange for 'vote for me, I gave you a tax cut" In any normal world, being married wouldn't be any benefit since every living breathing soul over 18 would have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not they swore their life to someone else. Each person benefits from the protections of the Federal government, thus each should pay. Or as Madison called it - the General Welfare.

Its more than that. Rather than mandating behaviors more beneficial to the 'General Welfare,' the U.S. has chosen to incentivize these behaviors. In the U.S. home ownership has traditionally built more stable communities than rentals. Same with marriage versus being single. Optimizing these behaviors means fewer police interventions and frankly, longer and healthier life spans (for men anyway.) Thus less burden for police and emergency medical intervention and so forth and so on. You want to live in a way that potentially hits all of us more in the pocketbook and quality of life? Fine, but you'll pay more for doing so. We can dispute the wisdom of using the tax code to strengthen the social welfare like this, but this is how the USA has historically chosen to do this.

Going kinda off-topic here (but what else is new, hello Fark) -- violent crime has dropped so far and so fast that it's impossible to ascribe it to any one factor. Did five times as many couples get married since 1991? Of course not. I agree with everything you said, though. The five-fold drop in violent crime is a welcome but puzzling development.

[www.motherjones.com image 388x277]


Freakonomics figured this one out already. Roe vs Wade + 18 years = 1991.
 
2012-12-31 04:53:55 PM  

imontheinternet: Boehner still doesn't have the votes.  At least he did a count before he took it to the floor this time.


CNN says that they are not going to vote. The GOP can't even put together a bill that they can pass.  They are crying babies that don't even know what they want or just don't care.
 
2012-12-31 04:54:07 PM  

Active introvert: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?


Their standard and personal exceptions would have their taxable income below 250K. If their real income is closer to 300K and they have little in the way of deductions so their taxable income is 260K, then they will get a raise on that last 10K of about 4% or about $400. So you don't really expect to get a great many tears shed over that, do you?
 
2012-12-31 04:54:09 PM  

bartink: Wangiss: The government loves entitlements because they can always adjust the price after the fact.

What does that mean?


If you got money from the government, your levied debt of gratitude and its monetary component can increase at the whim of legislators because you supposedly bought into the social contract. My parents were on welfare. As an adult, I will be reminded of this by spend-moar types who believe I owe the government for that. Never mind that children can't enter contracts. The social contract is special.
 
2012-12-31 04:54:59 PM  

Somacandra: AngryJailhouseFistfark: It cost me the same to rent as to pay a mortgage but with the mortgage I got Sweet Deductions. My behavior was directly influenced by tax policy.

And that is precisely by design. High concentrations of rental properties are associated with more kinds of State intervention in the USA (not in Europe or necessarily elsewhere). When you own, you have an incentive to keep and maintain the property and the people there than when you just rent. Same thing with marriage. Unmarried people in the U.S. (especially men)  live shorter, nastier and more brutish lives (to invoke