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(Huffington Post)   As more and more young people question the value of going $150,000 in debt so they can get a job as a Starbuck's barista, America's small liberal-arts colleges face a struggle for survival   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 247
    More: Obvious, arts, Starbucks, U.S. universities, civic engagement, Beloit College, degree programs, academic major, climbing walls  
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5006 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2012 at 12:59 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-31 01:23:25 PM  

APE992: I contemplated racking up the debt, getting a degree in electrical engineering, and then leaving the country. While I'm sure my ass would be handed to me if I tried to reenter I'd like to think US creditors can only go so far in legally harassing you outside of the country. Canada might have something but I doubt Australia or England would be terribly happy working with American creditors.



Ha, good luck - with the way banks report on US citizen's bank accounts abroad, you can't hide from shiat. the University of Texas sent me a farking collection attempt on a 6 year old parking ticket to my home address in Germany.
 
2012-12-31 01:23:28 PM  

meathome: TWX:
I see business school as primarily a way to give degrees to people who abhor the concept of the classical liberal arts education that used to produce industry management and businessmen. Those business school graduates often think they know what's best for everyone even though they really don't have much experience with other facets of life and really don't know how others live or how to really make improvements, as their education was too narrow, too tailored.


THIS!!!

I never found such one-dimensional people as when dealing with people in business school. If it wasn't in a book, or something they encountered before, they didn't know how to deal with it.


one of my former bosses, the ceo of a financial institution, said that he would prefer to hire people with liberal arts backgrounds who picked up business at a graduate level. he said people who go straight through business school as undergraduates have a tendency to be too shortsighted to be effective in the long term. also, they can't write or communicate. basically, he said that people with liberal arts backgrounds and business degrees are more likely to be successful at the higher levels than people who limit themselves to business.

/ decided business school was not for me and returned to liberal arts (law).
 
2012-12-31 01:24:32 PM  
Well, that sucks. How else am I supposed to get my chai with a side of condescension and angst?
 
2012-12-31 01:25:09 PM  
www.examiner.com
 
2012-12-31 01:26:38 PM  
lilplatinum: Hey fix my computer, monkey, I have to go get loaded at lunch because I can.

You get loaded at lunch because you never deal with clients or make decisions. You can get away with such behaviour if you're a passenger, or a bimbo.
 
2012-12-31 01:26:55 PM  
Liberal? Sure I'm liberal. I'll date anyone that asks me out.

skywalker.cochise.edu:8080
 
2012-12-31 01:27:17 PM  
The older I get, the more lucky I feel that my parents were ball-busters when it came to academics AND activities throughout school. I got a full scholarship via Navy ROTC, which included books, summer training and a guaranteed, 4-year job after college. My total time spent with Uncle Sam totaled 11 years, and I came away completely debt free with not only an attractive BS diploma but a career-founding resume that has served me since.

School debt is a monster deadweight on so many of my contemporaries, and as tuition/fees rise quickly while wages have stagnated for decades, the problem will only get worse. Schools, lenders, and public education policy makers have got to pull their sh*t together and get education costs under control.
 
2012-12-31 01:27:45 PM  
Engineering degree, $0 of debt.

Eat it.
 
2012-12-31 01:29:30 PM  

lilplatinum: letrole: lilplatinum:
Is this the thread where the IT monkeys with their CS Degrees and crappy jobs go and mock people who have the types of degrees that their bosses do?


No. This is the thread where those with liberal arts degrees make half-hearted attempts to justify taking the long way round to an exciting career of part-time clerical work.

Hey fix my computer, monkey, I have to go get loaded at lunch because I can.


You're working today?
 
2012-12-31 01:29:30 PM  

letrole: lilplatinum: Hey fix my computer, monkey, I have to go get loaded at lunch because I can.

You get loaded at lunch because you never deal with clients or make decisions. You can get away with such behaviour if you're a passenger, or a bimbo.


You, apparently, have never met a ship broker. This industry is still stuck in Mad Men mentality.
 
2012-12-31 01:29:59 PM  
heh heh, see my buddy here? Liberal? Heck, he couldn't even serve a latte at the DNC....

biginterview.com
 
2012-12-31 01:30:18 PM  

Molavian: lilplatinum: letrole: lilplatinum:
Is this the thread where the IT monkeys with their CS Degrees and crappy jobs go and mock people who have the types of degrees that their bosses do?


No. This is the thread where those with liberal arts degrees make half-hearted attempts to justify taking the long way round to an exciting career of part-time clerical work.

Hey fix my computer, monkey, I have to go get loaded at lunch because I can.

You're working today?


From home, obviously diligently.
 
2012-12-31 01:30:36 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Engineering degree, $0 of debt.

Eat it.


History and Philosophy degree, $0 of debt. Gainfully and happily employed.

Did you have a point?
 
2012-12-31 01:30:56 PM  
Perhaps if the people who pursue liberal arts degrees could learn to properly spell and punctuate, they wouldn't have to work at a place like "Starbuck's".

/Your apostrophe license is hereby revoked, tardmitter.
 
2012-12-31 01:31:14 PM  
Is this the thread where we all make fun of education and point out how pointless it is to learn how to think?
 
2012-12-31 01:31:54 PM  
Could be worse, they could have gone to law school or gone for MBAs
 
2012-12-31 01:32:03 PM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: This is largely true. Sadly, it often takes that "official piece of paper" before a prospective employer will even consider you.


My employer hired me knowing I had no degree.
Now, 12 years later, many have come and gone with their degrees.
I'm still here. and doing fine. (Also, I could have moved up may times, but I like the rung I'm on)

Point is. Any one can be trained to do anything.
Hell, look at who ultimately get the launch codes.
 
2012-12-31 01:32:23 PM  

SkunkWerks: Oh, it's this schtick again.

/Liberal Arts Major.
//Gainfully Employed


STFU and give me my fries.
 
2012-12-31 01:32:30 PM  

jasenj1: The market is flooded with "for profit" colleges like University of Phoenix. The government makes it extremely easy for people to get loans for tens of thousands of dollars. Those loans cannot be wiped out by bankruptcy.

Ya think colleges are predatory? Ya think some good schools get squeezed out by the for profit ones?

Community college for the win. Get your general ed. stuff out of the way. Spend a couple years figuring out what you really want your major to be. Then coordinate with where you want to get your four-year degree from and determine what you can transfer.


This is what needs to be engraved in our school houses, not the Ten Commandments. The "For-Profit" industry is a giant scam. ITT Tech, ECPI, Phoenix, Strayer, Virginia College... all of them are scams. F*ck that noise. I'd like to think that whole scheme will come crashing down within a generation.

And if your child "surprises" you with an acceptance letter, send them to community college FIRST. The credits will transfer if they are meant for higher education, but the bills won't sting if they're not. Even in South Carolina we have great, public, very affordable "Technical Colleges" for this purpose.
 
2012-12-31 01:33:08 PM  
Christ, I'm still paying off my college by working at this hell whole coffee shop and I graduated in 1967! Did you want whipped cream for that frap?

www.westchestermagazine.com
 
2012-12-31 01:34:35 PM  

Ed_Severson: Perhaps if the people who pursue liberal arts degrees could learn to properly spell and punctuate, they wouldn't have to work at a place like "Starbuck's".

/Your apostrophe license is hereby revoked, tardmitter.


I'd be careful using that word, you might summon a certain FARKER. ( who shall remain unnamed...)
 
2012-12-31 01:34:46 PM  

meathome: I never found such one-dimensional people as when dealing with people in business school. If it wasn't in a book, or something they encountered before, they didn't know how to deal with it.


Or, because they make everyone go to college to be a barista these days, these were people that were one dimensional and had no idea how to deal with anything before and after college simply because they were that way already. A liberal arts education doesn't change who you are
 
2012-12-31 01:34:54 PM  

Ed_Severson: Perhaps if the people who pursue liberal arts degrees could learn to properly spell and punctuate, they wouldn't have to work at a place like "Starbuck's".

/Your apostrophe license is hereby revoked, tardmitter.


Your period license is temporarily suspended.
 
2012-12-31 01:34:56 PM  
This is why white people will never riot. Between student loans and mortgage debt, most everyone from 18-70 can't afford the consequences.
 
2012-12-31 01:35:25 PM  
lilplatinum: Hey fix my computer, monkey, I have to go get loaded at lunch because I can.

letrole: You get loaded at lunch because you never deal with clients or make decisions. You can get away with such behaviour if you're a passenger, or a bimbo.

lilplatinum: You, apparently, have never met a ship broker. This industry is still stuck in Mad Men mentality.

Mad Men is to the early sixties advertising business what Hogan's Heroes was to being in a German POW camp.
 
2012-12-31 01:35:57 PM  
jaclpetersen.files.wordpress.com

Melissa shows the newbie how to handle her boy-friend, by showing her how to dispense the whipped cream...
 
2012-12-31 01:36:47 PM  

lilplatinum: APE992: I contemplated racking up the debt, getting a degree in electrical engineering, and then leaving the country. While I'm sure my ass would be handed to me if I tried to reenter I'd like to think US creditors can only go so far in legally harassing you outside of the country. Canada might have something but I doubt Australia or England would be terribly happy working with American creditors.


Ha, good luck - with the way banks report on US citizen's bank accounts abroad, you can't hide from shiat. the University of Texas sent me a farking collection attempt on a 6 year old parking ticket to my home address in Germany.


Holy shiat.
 
2012-12-31 01:36:54 PM  

letrole: lilplatinum: Hey fix my computer, monkey, I have to go get loaded at lunch because I can.

letrole: You get loaded at lunch because you never deal with clients or make decisions. You can get away with such behaviour if you're a passenger, or a bimbo.

lilplatinum: You, apparently, have never met a ship broker. This industry is still stuck in Mad Men mentality.

Mad Men is to the early sixties advertising business what Hogan's Heroes was to being in a German POW camp.


Which is why I said mentality rather than "stuck in an episode of Mad Men." Damn inselaffen.
 
2012-12-31 01:36:55 PM  
Most college kids don't have the professional context to made high level business decisions, period.  And why would you expect them to?
 
2012-12-31 01:37:03 PM  

factoryconnection: The older I get, the more lucky I feel that my parents were ball-busters when it came to academics AND activities throughout school. I got a full scholarship via Navy ROTC, which included books, summer training and a guaranteed, 4-year job after college. My total time spent with Uncle Sam totaled 11 years, and I came away completely debt free with not only an attractive BS diploma but a career-founding resume that has served me since.

School debt is a monster deadweight on so many of my contemporaries, and as tuition/fees rise quickly while wages have stagnated for decades, the problem will only get worse. Schools, lenders, and public education policy makers have got to pull their sh*t together and get education costs under control.


I told my son to either get good at sports or enlist for a few years and get a free education. I regret not following the family Navy tradition to some degree, and it took just as long for me to find my feet. At least I don't have student loans, though.
 
2012-12-31 01:37:18 PM  

meathome: TWX:
I see business school as primarily a way to give degrees to people who abhor the concept of the classical liberal arts education that used to produce industry management and businessmen. Those business school graduates often think they know what's best for everyone even though they really don't have much experience with other facets of life and really don't know how others live or how to really make improvements, as their education was too narrow, too tailored.


THIS!!!

I never found such one-dimensional people as when dealing with people in business school. If it wasn't in a book, or something they encountered before, they didn't know how to deal with it.


Oh please; stop projecting your inadequacies on us. I have an Economics / Mathematics degree because I found those two subjects fascinating. I'd venture to say that for me my high school education was broad enough to satisfy my liberal arts needs.

Oh wait, by "If it wasn't in a book" you were referring to the radical-right. Right?

Or was it that you thought that "The liberal arts are those subjects or skills that in classical antiquity were considered essential for a free person, in other words, a citizen, to know in order to take an active part in civic life." was taught without books link?
 
2012-12-31 01:38:05 PM  

Wangiss: lilplatinum: APE992: I contemplated racking up the debt, getting a degree in electrical engineering, and then leaving the country. While I'm sure my ass would be handed to me if I tried to reenter I'd like to think US creditors can only go so far in legally harassing you outside of the country. Canada might have something but I doubt Australia or England would be terribly happy working with American creditors.


Ha, good luck - with the way banks report on US citizen's bank accounts abroad, you can't hide from shiat. the University of Texas sent me a farking collection attempt on a 6 year old parking ticket to my home address in Germany.

Holy shiat.


Amusingly they also threatened to withhold my undergrad diploma if I didn't pay it, something I found to be a pretty weak threate since I have it on my wall and have already finished grad school since then...
 
2012-12-31 01:38:16 PM  

steklo: What? Sure, I'll meet you out back by the dumbster for a little cream swapping!


Dumbster? Really? How dump can you be?
 
gja
2012-12-31 01:38:36 PM  

lilplatinum: Is this the thread where the IT monkeys with their CS Degrees and crappy jobs go and mock people who have the types of degrees that their bosses do?


LULZ, no. This is the thread where uwe bona fide engineers with the real degrees mock you ALL for choosing a line of work that is so volatile as we continue to get ahead even as our bosses come and go with their oh-so-wonderful-but-useless MBA's.
 
2012-12-31 01:38:48 PM  
Hey kids, having come from a poor family, I'd like you to know the following:

1) It is really, really, really stupid to go 150k in debt for a Bachelor's degree
2) If you _really_ want to go to that great school, then work your ass off in high school and forgo all those great things that everyone else is doing.
3) If you aren't very smart, then ignore 1 and 2, because it isn't going to matter.
4) Even if you do #2 and get your degree paid for (and thus no home mortgage level debt), don't expect your degree to be worth a damn when you get out in the real world. But the life experiences you had there may be worth it (at least, it was for me!)
5) If you are actually going to college because you want to _learn_ things you couldn't learn elsewhere, as opposed to getting a better job, etc., you are going to be very, very, very disappointed when you get there.
6) Yes, even at top 20 institutions.

College is to make networking connections (subset: drink and fark a lot, please!), qualify for graduate schools, learn more about yourself, expand your horizons a bit, and to possibly qualify to get hired somewhere. If you're going to college for any reason other than those things and you're taking out massive debt, you are making a very poor life choice.

/no, I don't care about your BA or BS -- I still won't hire you unless you can show me you can think well. Sorry! Your degrees, including your mba and law degree, are in fact as worthless as the Liberal Arts degrees. Thanks!
 
2012-12-31 01:39:05 PM  
I'm sorry sir, I only went to liberal arts college, I never learned how to spell. Christopher, does that begin with a "K"?

www.moodiereport.com
 
2012-12-31 01:39:37 PM  

Sweaty Dynamite: LiberalZombie: A lot of talk about redefining who they are, but not much about these colleges reducing the cost of their degree programs. Isn't that what a capitalist market should demand?

But dude, then how could the campus cafe afford to give away the free certified organic soy vegan gluten free nutrition experience?


Um...they don't. They charge you even more for meals-on top of tuition and books.
 
2012-12-31 01:40:36 PM  

gja: lilplatinum: Is this the thread where the IT monkeys with their CS Degrees and crappy jobs go and mock people who have the types of degrees that their bosses do?

LULZ, no. This is the thread where uwe bona fide engineers with the real degrees mock you ALL for choosing a line of work that is so volatile as we continue to get ahead even as our bosses come and go with their oh-so-wonderful-but-useless MBA's.


Yes, Engineers are the only profession with job stability in the world and the only profession that makes any money.

/the 1 in 10,000 Engineer who actually has some modicum of social skills actually can make himself pretty farking valuable, however.
 
2012-12-31 01:41:53 PM  

sand_in_my_vagoo: Amos Quito: The Student Loan Scam: Creating a generation of indentured servants for the pleasure of our Corporate Overlords.

Sadly, that's absolutely true. What makes student loans even worse is that they are not discharged in a bankruptcy (I do understand the reason for this but there needs to be exceptions). Even worse than that is, depending on your laon servicer, the debt from your loans is passed on if you die, making your next of kin a slave too.

The higher education system in this country desperately needs to be completely overhauled. Student loans and financial aid, text book prices, public institutions essentially functioning as for profit entities. It all needs to be fixed and very farking soon.

/Still paying student loans.
//Barely employed at the moment.
///But apparently the recession is over...


That's only true if they co-signed, or if you consolidated your loans and your spouse's loans. Although some shady servicing companies will try to convince people otherwise, which may be what you're referring to,

And, yeah, the whole system is at/near a breaking point. Will be very interesting to see what falls out over the next 10 years.
 
2012-12-31 01:42:07 PM  
Press the esspreso, press the espresso, that's all I ever hear around here. I'll show 'em, one day I'll be able to actually pour milk, as soon as I get my degree...

img13.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-31 01:43:10 PM  

genepool lifeboat: sand_in_my_vagoo: Even worse than that is, depending on your laon servicer, the debt from your loans is passed on if you die, making your next of kin a slave too.

YMMV, but my wife and I just went through this when her father died. In NY State you can't inherit debt.


Most debts no longer pass to next of kin. Some states allow some creditors to get away with more, some less. Debts, in general, no longer pass to next of kin.
 
2012-12-31 01:43:39 PM  
letrole: Mad Men is to the early sixties advertising business what Hogan's Heroes was to being in a German POW camp.

lilplatinum: Which is why I said mentality rather than "stuck in an episode of Mad Men." Damn inselaffen.


What you actually did was compare your business environment and you professional behaviour to a period tv drama that's riddled with inaccuracies and anachronisms.
 
2012-12-31 01:45:54 PM  

letrole: letrole: Mad Men is to the early sixties advertising business what Hogan's Heroes was to being in a German POW camp.

lilplatinum: Which is why I said mentality rather than "stuck in an episode of Mad Men." Damn inselaffen.


What you actually did was compare your business environment and you professional behaviour to a period tv drama that's riddled with inaccuracies and anachronisms.


And? The fact that it might not be an accurate representation of a certain industry at a certain place in a certain point in time means it can have no similarity to a mentality that exists in a different industry in a different place in a different point of time?

Gotcha.
 
2012-12-31 01:45:58 PM  

gja: lilplatinum: Is this the thread where the IT monkeys with their CS Degrees and crappy jobs go and mock people who have the types of degrees that their bosses do?

LULZ, no. This is the thread where uwe bona fide engineers with the real degrees mock you ALL for choosing a line of work that is so volatile as we continue to get ahead even as our bosses come and go with their oh-so-wonderful-but-useless MBA's.


I'm one of those liberal arts degree holders who has engineers working for him (btw, I respect them immensely, not knocking them at all). I find it very awesome, though, that we can all agree as we make more money than the average Joe that MBAs deserve to be humiliated and thrown into the fire.

In my department, unless you have requisite business experience to go with it (re: you got your MBA 25 years ago and have some notable talents or deeper business experience), having an MBA gets your application sent straight to the trash can, as it shows you are, in general, an exceptionally poor decision maker, procrastinator, or poor thinker. I'll take a degree in geology over an MBA any day of the week.
 
2012-12-31 01:46:20 PM  

steklo: Liberal? Sure I'm liberal. I'll date anyone that asks me out.

[skywalker.cochise.edu:8080 image 850x1133]


They put the cooking magazines right under the fitness magazines? Not sure if attempt at social engineering, or just cruel.
 
2012-12-31 01:46:56 PM  
That's funny, because most of the staff there seem to have some prime 'bo-bo school' liberal arts educations.
 
2012-12-31 01:46:57 PM  
i.ytimg.com

ok, see how my hand wraps around the cyldender? Ok, just apply the right amount of pressure, here, on the tip. Rub slowly, but firmly. Now, take the your other hand and stroke the bottom. Don't grab too tightly. Now, with your first hand, glide up and down, evenly until the cream appears on the tip. Now point it so it doesn't get in your eyes. It kinda stings if that happens...
 
2012-12-31 01:47:35 PM  

lilplatinum: gja: lilplatinum: Is this the thread where the IT monkeys with their CS Degrees and crappy jobs go and mock people who have the types of degrees that their bosses do?

LULZ, no. This is the thread where uwe bona fide engineers with the real degrees mock you ALL for choosing a line of work that is so volatile as we continue to get ahead even as our bosses come and go with their oh-so-wonderful-but-useless MBA's.

Yes, Engineers are the only profession with job stability in the world and the only profession that makes any money.

/the 1 in 10,000 Engineer who actually has some modicum of social skills actually can make himself pretty farking valuable, however.


Even engineering isn't safe in this global economy at this time. I know several that have been laid off and can not find jobs.
 
2012-12-31 01:48:07 PM  

lilplatinum: gja: lilplatinum: Is this the thread where the IT monkeys with their CS Degrees and crappy jobs go and mock people who have the types of degrees that their bosses do?

LULZ, no. This is the thread where uwe bona fide engineers with the real degrees mock you ALL for choosing a line of work that is so volatile as we continue to get ahead even as our bosses come and go with their oh-so-wonderful-but-useless MBA's.

Yes, Engineers are the only profession with job stability in the world and the only profession that makes any money.

/the 1 in 10,000 Engineer who actually has some modicum of social skills actually can make himself pretty farking valuable, however.


I've tended to find that most engineers have a modicum of social skills. I used to believe that old stereotype, but I just haven't seen it in the real world. It could have something to do with confirmation bias, though, as I tend to run completely unskilled people out of an interview, even if they're technically brilliant. But I'm in an industry and company where social skills are just as important as your talent level, and you'll crash projects if you can't play nice with people who you have every justifiable reason to want to run over with your car.
 
2012-12-31 01:48:56 PM  

lennavan: Your period license is temporarily suspended.


Sorry, both styles are acceptable. Try leaving America once in a while.
 
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