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(North Jersey)   Driver refuses to break speed limit when tailgated by cop, gets ticket for blocking traffic instead   ( northjersey.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, semi-trailer trucks, New Jersey Turnpike  
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12853 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2012 at 1:48 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-31 03:33:59 PM  

Rootus: How about you quit driving aggressively to enforce other people following the law, and let cops handle it?


Translation: Get out of my way so I can break the law!

Gee, sorry- next time shall I make it easier for you to break the laws against burglary? Maybe leave my door wide open? Would that be okay?

It's not my job to make your breaking the law easier.
 
2012-12-31 03:34:15 PM  

Paka Ono: HERO


Came to say this...trolltastic headline indeed.

This cop is a farking hero. Wish there was virtual cops available, I'd install a dash cam immediately and they could look at all the asshats who block the left (passing) lane on my commute to and from work. The road I drive is 3 lanes (up to 4) both ways, yet I can never pass anyone because of the left lane hogs going the same speed as the other 2 lanes.
GTFO of the way already...
 
2012-12-31 03:35:13 PM  
FTFA: NJSA 39:4-89 says drivers "shall not follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent," which road safety experts define as one car length for every 10 mph of speed - about six lengths between cars going 60 mph.

Count seconds, not car lengths. It's easier.

Police in New Jersey issue about 16 tickets daily for this offense - 21 weekly in Bergen and Passaic counties combined.

i86.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-31 03:36:02 PM  
How to handle it, if it hasn't already been covered, unless the LEO was "lit up" I would immediately turn on my right turn signal and slow down to move over behind the semi.

I've done it.

Worked very nicely as I was passing a semi on I-5 at the speed limit. I stay in the right lane unless I'm passing a slower vehicle.

I flipped off the oinker as he passed me, and only then did he get behind me and light me up.

He didn't scratch me a ticket either. I told him to choose his words carefully, he was being recorded and then proceeded to lecture him about safe following distances.

He got in his patrol car and left.
 
2012-12-31 03:37:00 PM  
I-75 on the north side of Atlanta has 10 northbound lanes at one point. If you are driving through (ie going to Chattanooga), you need to be in one of the 3 left lanes as the rest of them eventually become exit lanes or I-575.

How does 'keep right except to pass' supposed to work in that situation?

There was also a scandal about 10 years ago where police officers out of their jurisdiction would be driving 90-100+ on I-75 around Hampton going to some law enforcement training school. You'd be tootling along going 80 in a 65 and some cop would come up and ride your butt. Then you'd get over and it would be a Cherokee County (or whomever) sheriff's car.
 
2012-12-31 03:39:14 PM  
The circle of idiocy is completed by traffic planners - they realize that everyone drives about 10mph over the speed limit, so on a stretch of road where it's perfectly safe to go 65mph, they set the speed limit at 55mph.

Now you just made that up. Stop that.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:01 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Karma's a mean biatch. :)


My mom runs the only place that's open at night in my home town, so she knows all the local cops since it's the only place they can go to get something during the night shift. Even the local guys think this guy is an idiot. He pretends to be a SWAT cop, running around doing traffic enforcement, in a department with four people, all decked out in tactical gear, and uses an unmarked car with more hide aways than a big city cop has.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:26 PM  
I was driving through Arizona and had a cop tailgate me. I was in the right lane, doing the speed limit, and obviously couldn't go anywhere. It was rush hour. What did I do? I paid the damn ticket, and cursed the cop's name occasionally for a few years straight. Neither did any good, but the cursing made me feel better about it.
 
2012-12-31 03:44:04 PM  

peasandcarrots: I love any thread that sets the "all police officers abuse their authority" crowd against the "I hate slow drivers" crowd. I plan on showing this article to my roommate to watch his head explode.


Sounds like you're describing me (I don't hate all cops, I just think they're being used incorrectly and are above the law). But I clearly think this cop is a hero...
 
2012-12-31 03:44:20 PM  

fredklein: Translation: Get out of my way so I can break the law!


Your argument has a rather serious flaw. Most states have keep right laws. You're basically saying that conforming to one law means it is okay to break another law.
 
2012-12-31 03:44:26 PM  

fredklein: Rootus: How about you quit driving aggressively to enforce other people following the law, and let cops handle it?

Translation: Get out of my way so I can break the law!

Gee, sorry- next time shall I make it easier for you to break the laws against burglary? Maybe leave my door wide open? Would that be okay?

It's not my job to make your breaking the law easier.


It's your job to obey the law, which means not impeding traffic. Just because you disagree with the application of the law doesn't mean you don't need to obey it.
 
2012-12-31 03:44:38 PM  

noitsnot: The circle of idiocy is completed by traffic planners - they realize that everyone drives about 10mph over the speed limit, so on a stretch of road where it's perfectly safe to go 65mph, they set the speed limit at 55mph.

Now you just made that up. Stop that.


are you talking to yourself or did you mean to press this first: i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-31 03:51:45 PM  

fredklein: Theaetetus: If true, she essentially set up a rolling roadblock with the truck for 3 miles.

She didn't "block" anyone who was obeying the law and going the speed limit. She only "blocked" people trying to BREAK THE LAW.

[img7.imageshack.us image 378x208]


Not her job to enforce the law. Not by impeding traffic, and not by kicking in the doors of meth houses either. It's not a valid excuse.
 
2012-12-31 03:52:50 PM  
Get the fark out of the left lane.
 
2012-12-31 03:53:58 PM  

BronyMedic: Grats bro. You just bought the county a new police cruiser by causing an accident which you are 100% at fault for. (Thanks to Ambulance Chasing, the laws regarding rear-end collisions have now changed to either shared responsibility, or the lead car being responsible for doing just that) You do know those things have cameras, right?


got a citation for that? i got rear-ended a couple of months ago and the girl who hit me got a ticket for following too close. i got nothing.
 
2012-12-31 03:54:33 PM  
This sign is in Michigan; we have similar signs in Washington state. On our highways truck speeds are generally lower that car speeds.

media.mlive.com
On another point, how did she get next to the truck, and get stuck there for three miles, if they were both traveling the speed limit? Either the truck sped up to get alongside her (presumably she was in right lane then) or she sped up, got alongside the truck and then failed to complete her pass.

The car and truck did not magically end up next to each other.
 
2012-12-31 03:55:43 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Come to Chicago, people ride the left lane here more than anywhere I've been.  People will sit in the left lane when there isn't another car within a mile of them.


There is never half a mile between cars here. Rockford, Joliet or Kankakee(sp) sure.
 
2012-12-31 03:58:38 PM  

Curious: got a citation for that? i got rear-ended a couple of months ago and the girl who hit me got a ticket for following too close. i got nothing.


Taken directly from the Memphis Police Department P&P Guidelines. They ticket both drivers, and let them fight it out in traffic court on the citation date unless the accident happened on private property, in which case they will only make a report if someone demands it.
 
2012-12-31 04:01:34 PM  

Curious: BronyMedic: Grats bro. You just bought the county a new police cruiser by causing an accident which you are 100% at fault for. (Thanks to Ambulance Chasing, the laws regarding rear-end collisions have now changed to either shared responsibility, or the lead car being responsible for doing just that) You do know those things have cameras, right?

got a citation for that? i got rear-ended a couple of months ago and the girl who hit me got a ticket for following too close. i got nothing.


He's referring to that for insurance and litigation purposes you only need to be 10% at fault. Which has produced some hilarious results like drunk drivers suing their victims.

Somebody slamming on their brakes for a squirrel might be surprised to see their insurance rates go up.
 
2012-12-31 04:01:56 PM  
Jesus...what is that 20 yr old driver going to do when faced with a real crisis in life?
 
2012-12-31 04:02:16 PM  

Trayal: fredklein: Translation: Get out of my way so I can break the law!

Your argument has a rather serious flaw. Most states have keep right laws. You're basically saying that conforming to one law means it is okay to break another law.


As I said before, if everyone followed the speed limit, the 'keep right' law becomes irrelevant- if everyone is going the speed limit, no one is passing.

On the other hand, if everyone followed the 'keep right except to pass' law, then you end up with speed demons flying by at 80mph, causing accidents.
 
2012-12-31 04:03:09 PM  

RufusLake: Jesus...what is that 20 yr old driver going to do when faced with a real crisis in life?


Carry a gun everywhere they go?

/flamewar on!
 
2012-12-31 04:03:18 PM  

bhcompy: It's your job to obey the law, which means not impeding traffic.


And it's their job to obey the law and not speed. And if they don't speed, then I'm NOT impeding traffic.
 
2012-12-31 04:04:29 PM  

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: Not her job to enforce the law.


It's also not her job to break the law (speed to pass the truck) in order to allow someone else to break the law.
 
2012-12-31 04:06:33 PM  

poisonpill: Probably a non story. You mean to tell me there was no way to get out of the left lane for three miles? Pfft. Cops aren't going to bust your balls for 10-15 mph over to clear the left lane. Besides, if you're going 65 on the NJ turnpike or similar highway, every car is passing you regardless if there's a trooper around.


Actually, I've been in a situation where there was no legal and safe way out of the left lane for more than 3 miles.

I had an ass right on my bumper, had I tried to slow down he probably would have hit me. I was doing 65 (the limit), the right lane was full of a *LONG* line of trucks doing about 55 that I was overtaking, there wasn't space in between to move into.

filter: Is it really illegal ton pass on the right?!


Think rush hour stop and go traffic before you call me an idiot.


I always thought it meant you weren't supposed to move over to the right in order to go around a vehicle. I have never interpreted it to mean that if you're held to the speed of the vehicle to your left. I am not a cop, though.

Smeggy Smurf: There is only one good reason to drive in the left lane. At night when there is nobody around you it's good to have an extra lane or two leeway in case a deer is trying to cross the road. Then if you do hit it, you can go off into the median and only risk killing yourself instead of the others on the highway.


Actually, I've found one other good reason at times--I've been on pieces of road where the right lane was beat to pieces and the left was nearly pristine. If there was nobody around I would stay in the left lane in that area but I would move right if someone came along.

Gyrfalcon: Oh, so much this. More so for the ones who hit their brakes because they see a cop on the SIDE OF THE ROAD giving some other poor fool a ticket. Do they think the cop is going to remember they were the ones speeding and come chase them next? (That's not the same thing as slowing when passing an accident scene, btw, although looky-loos need to die also)


Sometimes the cop on the side of the road isn't alone.
 
2012-12-31 04:06:47 PM  

fredklein: And it's their job to obey the law and not speed. And if they don't speed, then I'm NOT impeding traffic.


Many states have laws specifically exempting any emergency vehicle from traveling the speed limit when not on a call, however the liability is squarely placed on the vehicle operator. While a few have changed it due to that being massively abused and resulting in needless death, some still have them on the books.

fredklein: t's also not her job to break the law (speed to pass the truck) in order to allow someone else to break the law.


I find it hard to believe that if she is momentarily exceeding the speed limit to allow an emergency vehicle to pass, or to maintain a safe flow of traffic that someone's going to write her a ticket over it.
 
2012-12-31 04:06:55 PM  

fredklein: bhcompy: It's your job to obey the law, which means not impeding traffic.

And it's their job to obey the law and not speed. And if they don't speed, then I'm NOT impeding traffic.


I didn't realize that it was your job to interpret the law. I'm pretty sure that's the judge's job, and they tend to agree with the assertion that impeding traffic is about road safety, not speed limits(which are not about road safety)
 
2012-12-31 04:09:17 PM  

Amos Quito: In the case of TFA, it was the "dudes with the guns" rule.



Ah yes. The might make right rule. Ageless.
/HNY
 
2012-12-31 04:09:32 PM  
Is this an east coast thing?

Driving in LA, SF, California and Arizona I've never seen "keep to the right" enforced in any manner.

I've also seen cops sitting in the left lane at the speed limit, and I've seen cops herding a bunch of cars by sitting in the middle lane and allowing cars and scared drivers to build up behind them (I usually set the cruise control for +2 mph and sneak past them in the fast lane).

And yes, I hate it when drivers and trucks "fly in formation" for miles at a time, but I've never seen anyone teach drivers not to fly in farking formation.

Anyway, I don't see why she is to blame any more than the truck next to her. And if the cop was tailgating her, I'd say yes the cop is at fault and if he wants to her to move over, he should signal her the way they do out here by flashing his headlamps, or his lights and drag her over like the one cop did in the video posted way above.

Also, what the hell is a European Highway, and what does it have to do with keep right laws in New Jersey?
 
2012-12-31 04:12:55 PM  

BronyMedic: Taken directly from the Memphis Police Department P&P Guidelines. They ticket both drivers, and let them fight it out in traffic court on the citation date unless the accident happened on private property, in which case they will only make a report if someone demands it.


From your cite:
B. TRAFFIC TICKETS

Officers may issue traffic tickets at the crash scene based upon personal investigation without regard to personal injury or property damage. Common examples of vehicle crash cause factors that can be deduced from physical evidence at a scene include:

1. Following Too Close

C. When an officer investigating a vehicle crash cannot establish reasonable and probable grounds to substantiate a charge, only a report will be made.


That's pretty clear. If the cop finds that the crash is the result of following too close, he writes a ticket. Does not say anything about issuing tickets to both drivers. Unless that's elsewhere in the doc.
 
2012-12-31 04:15:58 PM  

NightOwl2255: That's pretty clear. If the cop finds that the crash is the result of following too close, he writes a ticket. Does not say anything about issuing tickets to both drivers. Unless that's elsewhere in the doc.


And I'm telling you as a resident of the city they don't bother investigating crap, they write both parties citations to traffic court and let them fight out responsibility there.
 
2012-12-31 04:17:33 PM  

fredklein: KiTTeNs_on_AciD: Not her job to enforce the law.

It's also not her job to break the law (speed to pass the truck) in order to allow someone else to break the law.


Oh, now I get it. You are in NYC and have no idea what driving is like in the rest of the world. Try to think of this as someone stopping to tie their shoes in the middle of a doorway to a subway car, or the middle of a stair case. Or tourists blocking an entire sidewalk to take pictures. It's a dick-move that negatively impacts others and trying to spin it as vigilantism doesn't excuse it.

Do the rest of us a huge favor and stay in the city, and never drive. Or conversely, move to Detroit and drive exactly how you think is OK and the problem will work itself out.
 
2012-12-31 04:19:49 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: "If we all followed that law," said Doug Groner of Hillsdale, "we'd have everybody squeezed into one right lane."

No farktard. Most European highways are 2 lanes and when people stay the fark right traffic flows 1000% better.


In Texas we don't have "keep right" rules. Well I might have seen signs once.

The thing is, if you don't fully utilize both lanes, then the capacity of the ENTIRE road suffers. And people changing lanes all the time for no reason is just dangerous. One car in the right lane is doing 60, you're doing 65, you pull left and pass that one car. Well if there's another car 1000ft ahead also doing 60, well, don't change right only to change left again, unless you see someone coming up behind you trying to do 70.

But the speed of the left should always be faster than the speed of the right, UNLESS the road is "full" anyways. Once the road fills up and both lanes are doing 60, for the love of God DON'T pack the right lane and leave the left open. It'll only make things go much slower and start up troublesome stop-and-start oscillations that bring traffic to a halt. It doesn't matter if you WANT to do 70, we all want to go faster but the road doesn't have the capacity. No one NEEDS to pass anyone, except for emergency vehicles (and in Texas we have a hard shoulder or breakdown lane for that sort of emergency).

Passing doesn't make congested traffic go faster. It kills the flow, for the most part. If you have a bunch of onramps adding cars on the right and slowing traffic in that lane, sure, but that's passing a moving obstruction. I would tend to stay in the left lane for as long as the problem with the right lane persists.
 
2012-12-31 04:20:14 PM  

fredklein: bhcompy: It's your job to obey the law, which means not impeding traffic.

And it's their job to obey the law and not speed. And if they don't speed, then I'm NOT impeding traffic.


And if they do, you're still breaking the law. You got some nice logic there.

So if your doctor smokes, you can't get lung cancer?
 
2012-12-31 04:20:59 PM  

Funbags: Relevant video


ROF
/LMAO
 
2012-12-31 04:21:29 PM  

BronyMedic: And I'm telling you as a resident of the city they don't bother investigating crap, they write both parties citations to traffic court and let them fight out responsibility there.


Then why bother with a cite that directly contradicts your claim? That's an interesting debating style.

Brony: The earth is flat!
Anyone else: I don't think it is.
Brony: Yes it is, here's proof!
Anyone else: Um, your proof proves it's not flat.
Brony: Don't believe that crap, take my word for it.
 
2012-12-31 04:22:16 PM  

CrazyCracka420: fredklein: bhcompy: It's your job to obey the law, which means not impeding traffic.

And it's their job to obey the law and not speed. And if they don't speed, then I'm NOT impeding traffic.

And if they do, you're still breaking the law. You got some nice logic there.

So if your doctor smokes, you can't get lung cancer?


Someone call?
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-31 04:23:04 PM  

NightOwl2255: Then why bother with a cite that directly contradicts your claim? That's an interesting debating style.


How does it contradict my claims?

Quoted: "Officers may issue traffic tickets at the crash scene based upon personal investigation without regard to personal injury or property damage. Common examples of vehicle crash cause factors that can be deduced from physical evidence at a scene include"

You do realize that the wording of that is rather important right? I'm telling you what happens in actual practice at any rate. MPD is too damn busy to let people fight it out on scene. They issue both parties citations, and tell them if they want to fight out responsibility to do it in traffic court.
 
2012-12-31 04:23:39 PM  
Goddamnit, Drew. Your new FARK system sucks. I can't even format shiat right.
 
2012-12-31 04:24:40 PM  

hoots_toot_ochaye: "There was a tractor-trailer truck right next to her, and she didn't know what to do," dad explained. "Instead of ... passing the truck ... and risking a speeding ticket or [signaling] and slowing down ... to move behind the truck ... she maintained her speed,  thinking this was OK."

Well, I would hope one of the things they'll teach her in that defensive driving class is not to travel alongside a tractor-trailer unit for any length of time.  If one of those blows a tire while you're alongside it, you could very well be toast.  The percussion impact can be powerful enough to knock you right off the road.

I was travelling on a country road a few years back, and the vehicle in front of me was a dump truck - and it was almost a half mile ahead of me.  It blew a tire, and I could feel the percussion impact of the blast from that far back.  I can just about imagine what it would have felt like if I were significantly closer.

If you find yourself next to a large truck of some sort, the best thing to do is to either speed up and get in front of it, or slow down and get behind it.  Don't just continue to travel beside it.


I wonder if there are many public schools that even offer driver's ed courses nowadays. They were very common when I attended high school (graduated in 1970), but there were no high schools in my area that offered courses when my son was in high school (graduated in 1997). If you wanted to learn to drive you had to either find a friend or family member willing to teach you or pay to attend a driving school.
 
2012-12-31 04:26:58 PM  
I saw the headline and thought "she was in the left-lane."

"There was a tractor-trailer truck right next to her, and she didn't know what to do," dad explained. "Instead of ... passing the truck ... and risking a speeding ticket or [signaling] and slowing down ... to move behind the truck ... she maintained her speed, thinking this was OK."

The truck just magically appeared, I guess.
 
2012-12-31 04:28:20 PM  

BronyMedic: "Officers may issue traffic tickets at the crash scene based upon personal investigation without regard to personal injury or property damage. Common examples of vehicle crash cause factors that can be deduced from physical evidence at a scene include"


So from that you conclude that:

They ticket both drivers, and let them fight it out in traffic court on the citation date unless the accident happened on private property, in which case they will only make a report if someone demands it.

Which is does not in any way say or imply. Okay then.
 
2012-12-31 04:29:25 PM  

BronyMedic: Goddamnit, Drew. Your new FARK system sucks. I can't even format shiat right.


I wish we could have a thread that discusses this. In some ways, it's very nice, in other ways, it blows. I've gone back to the old system, but the new system could be made to work better.
 
2012-12-31 04:30:18 PM  

RoyBatty: I wish we could have a thread that discusses this. In some ways, it's very nice, in other ways, it blows. I've gone back to the old system, but the new system could be made to work better.


You'll get over it?
 
2012-12-31 04:30:50 PM  

JonnyG: The horrible thing is that this is actually a tactic trained to and used by police everywhere. I agree that slow drivers should move over and let faster drivers by, but only up to the speed limit.


The law isn't phrased that way. You aren't the speed limit enforcer.

NJSA 39:4-82 says drivers must stay right except to pass.

It's not about "letting faster drivers by" - it's about not being in the left lane unless you're passing someone.

If you aren't passing someone, you don't belong in the left lane.
 
2012-12-31 04:32:31 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: I saw the headline and thought "she was in the left-lane."

"There was a tractor-trailer truck right next to her, and she didn't know what to do," dad explained. "Instead of ... passing the truck ... and risking a speeding ticket or [signaling] and slowing down ... to move behind the truck ... she maintained her speed, thinking this was OK."

The truck just magically appeared, I guess.


If you were in the cop's position and wanted to pass her, but didn't have a shotgun, ticket pad, and lightbar, what would you have done to signal her to move out of the way? (And would that have included tailgating her?)
 
2012-12-31 04:34:34 PM  

t3knomanser: Sitting next to a truck for three minutes sounds like a really stupid idea. Then again, I'm the sort of person that will sit in the left lane, trailing behind the truck until it is completely clear for me to pass the truck. Then I accelerate so that I can pass the entire length of the truck in one action.

But that's just me. I just got my license a month ago, so I obviously know nothing.


Bravo! Have a free month of TF on me.
 
2012-12-31 04:35:19 PM  

fredklein: Trayal: fredklein: Translation: Get out of my way so I can break the law!

Your argument has a rather serious flaw. Most states have keep right laws. You're basically saying that conforming to one law means it is okay to break another law.

As I said before, if everyone followed the speed limit, the 'keep right' law becomes irrelevant- if everyone is going the speed limit, no one is passing.

On the other hand, if everyone followed the 'keep right except to pass' law, then you end up with speed demons flying by at 80mph, causing accidents.


No, because their path would be clear - they'd be passing everybody safely.

Besides, a lot of highway speed limits are 70 - is 10mph faster really "flying by?"
 
2012-12-31 04:35:31 PM  

fredklein: As I said before, if everyone followed the speed limit, the 'keep right' law becomes irrelevant- if everyone is going the speed limit, no one is passing.


Irrelevant. You can conjure up "if" statements all day, but reality is not obliged to conform itself to your desires. In the real world, everybody doesn't drive exactly the same speed - hence the need to allow for the faster to pass the slower. And since everybody doesn't yield to faster moving traffic on their own, there are 'keep right' laws. Allowing those going faster to pass those going slower, regardless of speed limit, is demonstrably safer than letting the left lane vigilantes jam everything up.

fredklein: On the other hand, if everyone followed the 'keep right except to pass' law, then you end up with speed demons flying by at 80mph, causing accidents.


We already have speed demons flying by at 80mph - they just have to do more lane weaving when slow folks don't yield the left lane. In many cases they'll accelerate to an even higher rate of speed if they think there is a chance to get in front of said slower drivers. Both the lane weaving and additional acceleration make accidents more likely and more deadly than they otherwise would be.
 
2012-12-31 04:37:58 PM  
I love how people justify breaking the keep-right law by saying they're keeping other people from breaking the law.

WE SALUTE YOU, PALADINS OF THE HIGHWAY!
 
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