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(CBC)   FDA approves "frankenfish" for human consumption. Throw the switch, Igor   (cbc.ca) divider line 116
    More: Interesting, FDA, P.E.I., genetically modified food, Atlantic Salmon  
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6119 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2012 at 11:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-31 12:50:31 PM  
I ain't eatin' that Farkin' shiat!
 
2012-12-31 12:51:26 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: "We have to recognize that North America is the only place in the world where genetic engineering is an accepted form of food production. In the European Union it's banned,"

Banned in the EU? That's good enough for me.
Bring on the Frankenfish!


And we are overweight and they for the most part are not. Think it might have something to do with it?
 
2012-12-31 12:52:10 PM  
I've even heard about some people who use eels in a carnal way and get eel DNA all up inside themselves.
 
2012-12-31 12:52:48 PM  
/ \ throws switch
 
2012-12-31 12:54:51 PM  

Inquisitive Inquisitor: Good. Now lets find a way to use this technology to improve access to food worldwide and eradicate hunger.

Who am I kidding, the only thing this will do is line the pockets of corporations in the "West".


Yes, damn those foul blackguards who want to be rewarded for selling people something they want and are willing to pay for. Damn them to HELL.

/But we don't hate them enough not to rake in our take by taxing the profits from their foul deeds.
 
2012-12-31 12:56:42 PM  

mgshamster: whither_apophis: That's fine, just as long as it has a label on it.

/perfect knowledge ftw

Sure. No prob. Just as long as you realize that every single fruit and vegetable you consume will have that label. So will all cow and chicken products.  In fact, every food product involved in agriculture has been modified over the past ten thousand years of human tinkering.



Yes, and nuclear weapons are just big firecrackers.
 
2012-12-31 12:56:49 PM  
Brave New World, hah! this is boring now if it turns people into crazy killers like prozac did then I'll watch. I can admit it.
 
2012-12-31 12:57:22 PM  

YixilTesiphon: Slartibeerfest: understand the concern over genetically modified food

You do? Because it seems like uninformed fear-mongering to me.


Ever heard of systemic pesticides? Yeah, they're killing bees. Look it up, oh ignorant one.

Just in case you need proof that pesticides affect bees.
http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/about/intheworks/honeybee.htm
 
2012-12-31 01:01:49 PM  

stirfrybry: YixilTesiphon: Slartibeerfest: understand the concern over genetically modified food

You do? Because it seems like uninformed fear-mongering to me.

Ever heard of systemic pesticides? Yeah, they're killing bees. Look it up, oh ignorant one.

Just in case you need proof that pesticides affect bees.
http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/about/intheworks/honeybee.htm


Wait wait, are you trying to tell me that insecticides can kill insects? I am shocked... SHOCKED to learn this.

What's that have to do with GMO one way or the other again?
 
2012-12-31 01:01:57 PM  

Amos Quito: crabsno termites: old_toole: The U.S. Food and Drug Administration says genetically modified salmon eggs from P.E.I. are unlikely to harm the environment, opening the door for a scientifically engineered salmon that grows twice as fast as normal.


What could go wrong?

Absolutely nothing. FTA: "In its report the FDA said the facilities in P.E.I. and Panama are secure."

And you doubt?

[images.cheezburger.com image 470x572]


Must. Grow. Faster.


iheartscotch: nealzebub: Throw the switch, Igor

"It's pronounced eye-gor"

You're putting me on.

No, it's pronounced "Fronkensteen."

Do you also say "Froderick"?

No. . ."Frederick."

Well, why isn't it "Froderick Fronkensteen"?

It isn't; it's "Frederick Fronkensteen."

I see


Frau Blucher
 
2012-12-31 01:03:09 PM  

Prattle Assassin: Amos Quito: crabsno termites: old_toole: The U.S. Food and Drug Administration says genetically modified salmon eggs from P.E.I. are unlikely to harm the environment, opening the door for a scientifically engineered salmon that grows twice as fast as normal.


What could go wrong?

Absolutely nothing. FTA: "In its report the FDA said the facilities in P.E.I. and Panama are secure."

And you doubt?

[images.cheezburger.com image 470x572]

Must. Grow. Faster.


iheartscotch: nealzebub: Throw the switch, Igor

"It's pronounced eye-gor"

You're putting me on.

No, it's pronounced "Fronkensteen."

Do you also say "Froderick"?

No. . ."Frederick."

Well, why isn't it "Froderick Fronkensteen"?

It isn't; it's "Frederick Fronkensteen."

I see

Frau Blucher


Neeeeeah!
 
2012-12-31 01:03:29 PM  
Also:

A lot of the cheap seafood in the US comes from barely regulated and inspected Asian processing factories and aquaculture.

When you stuff that cheap shrimp into your gaping American maw, you're getting God-knows-what pollutants and bacteria and junk. Have you seen how Asians live? Just think what their average fish-processing factory or farm looks like.

FDA barely inspects imported seafood
 
2012-12-31 01:04:15 PM  

mgshamster: whither_apophis: That's fine, just as long as it has a label on it.

/perfect knowledge ftw

Sure. No prob. Just as long as you realize that every single fruit and vegetable you consume will have that label. So will all cow and chicken products.  In fact, every food product involved in agriculture has been modified over the past ten thousand years of human tinkering.


Thanks to California Prop 65 some years back, buildings everywhere are festooned with this sign:
i47.tinypic.com

They might as well add the warning to the "Open" signs, that's how common it is. It's essentially become background noise, like Muzak only less useful.
 
2012-12-31 01:05:09 PM  

Anthracite: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: "We have to recognize that North America is the only place in the world where genetic engineering is an accepted form of food production. In the European Union it's banned,"

Banned in the EU? That's good enough for me.
Bring on the Frankenfish!

And we are overweight and they for the most part are not. Think it might have something to do with it?


They are overweight there as well. Don't let the US vs Europe debate people make you think otherwise. Obesity is an entire first-world problem.

And the US is likely more obese due to corn subsidies and lack of exercise than GMO food. GMO food isn't going to make someone obese on its own.
 
2012-12-31 01:05:32 PM  
img.thesun.co.uk

Not... the third switch!
 
2012-12-31 01:09:18 PM  

CavalierEternal: 3825968: Throw the switch, Igor

Push the button, Max!

Push the button, Frank!


Here, fishy fishy.
 
2012-12-31 01:12:17 PM  

jjorsett: mgshamster: whither_apophis: That's fine, just as long as it has a label on it.

/perfect knowledge ftw

Sure. No prob. Just as long as you realize that every single fruit and vegetable you consume will have that label. So will all cow and chicken products.  In fact, every food product involved in agriculture has been modified over the past ten thousand years of human tinkering.

Thanks to California Prop 65 some years back, buildings everywhere are festooned with this sign:


They might as well add the warning to the "Open" signs, that's how common it is. It's essentially become background noise, like Muzak only less useful.


To be fair to the signs, there are a shiat ton of chemicals that do at least one of those three things. Of course, you have to have a sufficient dose, but that doesn't stop the interest groups and lawmakers from passing such a law.

/I've always been torn on the prop 65 labels; on one hand, they can be extremely useful, on the other, it's just background noise for so many of its applications.
 
2012-12-31 01:18:03 PM  
Good, now leave my people alone.
 
2012-12-31 01:20:46 PM  

old_toole: What could go wrong?


i236.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-31 01:25:31 PM  

jjorsett: mgshamster: whither_apophis: That's fine, just as long as it has a label on it.

/perfect knowledge ftw

Sure. No prob. Just as long as you realize that every single fruit and vegetable you consume will have that label. So will all cow and chicken products.  In fact, every food product involved in agriculture has been modified over the past ten thousand years of human tinkering.

Thanks to California Prop 65 some years back, buildings everywhere are festooned with this sign:
[i47.tinypic.com image 175x175]

They might as well add the warning to the "Open" signs, that's how common it is. It's essentially become background noise, like Muzak only less useful.


Then there's this one. It's got to be one of the least useless warnings I've ever seen:
850digital.com
/hot
 
2012-12-31 01:26:21 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Then there's this one. It's got to be one of the least useless warnings I've ever seen:


Least useful, most useless. Pick one while I find some coffee.
 
2012-12-31 01:37:08 PM  

BronyMedic: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Banned in the EU? That's good enough for me.
Bring on the Frankenfishia

the EU's ban on GMo Crops and Food has little to do with science or medical risk, and a lot to do with ignorant NIMBYism.

Fred Pierce and Yale360 has some things to say about it.


Excellent points, Brony. I find myself on the fence in this debate. I don't want to ban GMOs, but I do want them labeled as such so I can choose to not eat them.
 
2012-12-31 01:38:38 PM  
Monsanto laughs at your puny amateurish attempts to destroy the world through irresponsible genetic manipulation.
 
2012-12-31 01:44:15 PM  

ProfessorOhki: jjorsett: mgshamster: whither_apophis: That's fine, just as long as it has a label on it.

/perfect knowledge ftw

Sure. No prob. Just as long as you realize that every single fruit and vegetable you consume will have that label. So will all cow and chicken products.  In fact, every food product involved in agriculture has been modified over the past ten thousand years of human tinkering.

Thanks to California Prop 65 some years back, buildings everywhere are festooned with this sign:
[i47.tinypic.com image 175x175]

They might as well add the warning to the "Open" signs, that's how common it is. It's essentially become background noise, like Muzak only less useful.

Then there's this one. It's got to be one of the least useless warnings I've ever seen:
[850digital.com image 600x450]
/hot


Wow that is a retarded (and fear-mongering) warning. Considering almost every food when cooked has that, it should also be on the warning label of every pot, pan and stove. Did the raw vegan movement lobby for that?
 
2012-12-31 01:48:07 PM  

machoprogrammer: ProfessorOhki: jjorsett: mgshamster: whither_apophis: That's fine, just as long as it has a label on it.

/perfect knowledge ftw

Sure. No prob. Just as long as you realize that every single fruit and vegetable you consume will have that label. So will all cow and chicken products.  In fact, every food product involved in agriculture has been modified over the past ten thousand years of human tinkering.

Thanks to California Prop 65 some years back, buildings everywhere are festooned with this sign:
[i47.tinypic.com image 175x175]

They might as well add the warning to the "Open" signs, that's how common it is. It's essentially become background noise, like Muzak only less useful.

Then there's this one. It's got to be one of the least useless warnings I've ever seen:
[850digital.com image 600x450]
/hot

Wow that is a retarded (and fear-mongering) warning. Considering almost every food when cooked has that, it should also be on the warning label of every pot, pan and stove. Did the raw vegan movement lobby for that?


It is a good example how legislation to label foods can go awry.  People want labels on GM foods in order to be informed, but at the same time these labels will just produce fear-mongering rather than actually informing people.
 
2012-12-31 01:49:56 PM  
None of you ever complained when FrankenBerry came out.
 
2012-12-31 01:50:27 PM  

mgshamster: whither_apophis: That's fine, just as long as it has a label on it.

/perfect knowledge ftw

Sure. No prob. Just as long as you realize that every single fruit and vegetable you consume will have that label. So will all cow and chicken products.  In fact, every food product involved in agriculture has been modified over the past ten thousand years of human tinkering.


Selective breeding != gene splicing.

/and if you really think it does you're more of the problem than the solution.
//what's wrong with labels anyway? Do you only buy beer beer
//community supported agriculture rulez
 
2012-12-31 01:51:34 PM  

Amos Quito: Selective breeding is one thing - inserting the genes of an eel into a salmon is something else.


Most of our staple foods, especially cereal grains, were formed by cross-breeding different species of grasses; the reason they are as they are is because of wide-spread gene transfer between different species.

That's a much larger impact than simply modifying one gene. We created entirely new species of crops for our consumption.

whither_apophis: That's fine, just as long as it has a label on it.

/perfect knowledge ftw


It's not perfect knowledge, though. The fact that something is GMO conveys no information about the quality or safety of the product for many reasons:

1. The person reading it doesn't have the necessary information to make an informed decision based upon it - only a relatively tiny fraction of the populace is educated enough to even understand the information.

2. "This product contains GM foods" would be as useful as "this product contains plant matter" in terms of judging safety or quality. It paints with a brush so broad as to be meaningless. Many plants are perfectly safe to eat, while others contain extremely deadly toxins - likewise, many possible GMOs are perfectly safe (in fact, they could make the product safer, for example potatoes with the solanine gene inactivated), while others certainly in theory could be very harmful (i.e. one could imagine splicing a toxin-producing gene into an otherwise non-toxic organism). The simple "this is GM" tells you absolutely nothing about the nature or safety of the modification.

3. There is no useful information in the label, but there is definitely the potential for knee-jerk illogical reactions based on prejudice, not fact. You could also require food manufacturers to label each product with the race of the farmer who grew it, but that knowledge is not useful for anything except knee-jerk reactions of the bigoted.
 
2012-12-31 01:54:55 PM  
It's "Igor, THROW THE SWITCH!!!"

/Igor for the win
 
2012-12-31 02:15:09 PM  

whither_apophis: Selective breeding != gene splicing


Don't think so, huh? What's the difference, biochemically?
 
2012-12-31 02:26:56 PM  

mgshamster: whither_apophis: Selective breeding != gene splicing

Don't think so, huh? What's the difference, biochemically?



There's a reason that crossbreeding moose with penguins is illegal.
 
2012-12-31 02:29:09 PM  

Amos Quito: mgshamster: whither_apophis: Selective breeding != gene splicing

Don't think so, huh? What's the difference, biochemically?


There's a reason that crossbreeding moose with penguins is illegal.


High-speed downhill tobogganing + antlers is a recipe for disaster?
 
2012-12-31 02:30:44 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: Amos Quito: Selective breeding is one thing - inserting the genes of an eel into a salmon is something else.

Most of our staple foods, especially cereal grains, were formed by cross-breeding different species of grasses; the reason they are as they are is because of wide-spread gene transfer between different species.

That's a much larger impact than simply modifying one gene. We created entirely new species of crops for our consumption.



Man has acquired the ability to manipulate the DNA of man and other animals.

As man is a "natural animal", it cannot be unnatural, but it can be unpredictable.

/Proceed with caution
//Expect the unexpected
///Evolution overdrive
 
2012-12-31 02:33:32 PM  

mgshamster: whither_apophis: Selective breeding != gene splicing

Don't think so, huh? What's the difference, biochemically?


oooh the "we all chemicals!" fifth grade rejoinder. But just to play along, if plants really needed the equivalent fish genes to survive they would have evolved them on their own.

/and in case you didn't notice, I'll repeat: go ahead and sell it, just let me know what I'm buying.
//do you seek out GMO soy and corn? Will you only eat GMO salmon?
 
2012-12-31 02:38:27 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: old_toole: What could go wrong?

[i236.photobucket.com image 640x396]


A big chicken
 
2012-12-31 02:44:24 PM  

Amos Quito: Man has acquired the ability to manipulate the DNA of man and other animals.

As man is a "natural animal", it cannot be unnatural, but it can be unpredictable.

/Proceed with caution
//Expect the unexpected
///Evolution overdrive



It's not really a new thing; only our degree of control over the results is new. Mankind has created many species of plants and animals already,and greatly modified others, which is a more unpredictable thing than making small modifications to existing species.

Of course each change needs to be made with proper care and caution, but I think we're more conscientious and more cautious than we've ever been in the past.
 
2012-12-31 02:49:56 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: Amos Quito: Man has acquired the ability to manipulate the DNA of man and other animals.

As man is a "natural animal", it cannot be unnatural, but it can be unpredictable.

/Proceed with caution
//Expect the unexpected
///Evolution overdrive


It's not really a new thing; only our degree of control over the results is new. Mankind has created many species of plants and animals already,and greatly modified others, which is a more unpredictable thing than making small modifications to existing species.

Of course each change needs to be made with proper care and caution, but I think we're more conscientious and more cautious than we've ever been in the past.



I would hope we proceed with caution, humility and wisdom, but in any case, it's going to go forward.

/Can't put the geneie back in the bottle
 
2012-12-31 02:50:43 PM  
"Put! Zee candle! Beck!"
picpost.postjung.com
"He would have a tremendous schwanshtucker."

/hot like a roll in the hay
 
2012-12-31 02:56:43 PM  

Primum: Also:

A lot of the cheap seafood in the US comes from barely regulated and inspected Asian processing factories and aquaculture.

When you stuff that cheap shrimp into your gaping American maw, you're getting God-knows-what pollutants and bacteria and junk. Have you seen how Asians live? Just think what their average fish-processing factory or farm looks like.

FDA barely inspects imported seafood


You ever eaten catfish freshly caught from a river? -smirk-
 
2012-12-31 03:07:07 PM  
I love this gem: We have to recognize that North America is the only place in the world where genetic engineering is an accepted form of food production. In the European Union it's banned," said Peter Bevan-Baker.

That is the hippy argument against genetically modified fish? The EU bans it so we should too? With that sort of idiocy it is no wonder the FDA ignored them.
 
2012-12-31 03:14:04 PM  

whither_apophis: But just to play along, if plants really needed the equivalent fish genes to survive they would have evolved them on their own.


It has nothing to do with "needing to survive" - in fact many of the crop species we've created are far less likely to survive on their own than the species we hybridized and selectively bred from. The purpose of all genetic modification, from creating new species to greatly shifting the gene pools of existing species, has been to make them better food sources for humans.

For example, say you make a new type of wheat that requires less water to grow. Now you can farm in areas too arid to previously farm, and you can change irrigation strategies for existing farmland, as well. Or, for example, you can make food more nutritious. White rice, for example, although a staple food in most of the world is rather nutritionally poor, and regions that eat primarily rice are prone to vitamin A and B deficiencies. You can genetically modify rice to contain these nutrients and thus improve the diets of those consuming the food.

/and in case you didn't notice, I'll repeat: go ahead and sell it, just let me know what I'm buying.

Again, that information is useless, since it gives you no clue whatsoever as to the safety or health effects of eating that food. Sometimes the GMO is going to be healthier (e.g. more vitamin rich) or safer (e.g. less toxic) than other strains of that species. In theory, one could certainly make a GMO that was toxic or otherwise harmful (there's no shortage of genes encoding toxins). Simply stating that the food is genetically modified wouldn't tell you anything one way or the other. And telling you specifics (for example - this food has a psy/crtl insertion expressed in endosperm) would be useless unless you were versed in the scientific literature on that exact type of GM food.

That's the real problem facing labeling - each and every type of modification needs to be evaluated on its own; the safety or efficacy of one tells you absolutely nothing about the safety or efficacy of another, in the same way that eating, say, berries from a blueberry bush tells you nothing about the safety of eating berries from a nightshade plant; each is a totally different thing that needs to be evaluated independently of the other. A general label is useless because it doesn't have the specifics, and the specific labels are useless except to the few dozen people in the country well-educated enough on that specific modification to make an actual statement.
 
2012-12-31 03:14:45 PM  
Invest in this company now! Great things will happen when their fish get loose, a la Monsanto.

"We own all the corn salmon in the world and you must pay us!"
 
2012-12-31 03:29:09 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: And telling you specifics (for example - this food has a psy/crtl insertion expressed in endosperm) would be useless unless you were versed in the scientific literature on that exact type of GM food.


Well, that and how many people are going to buy any food with "endosperm" on the label?
 
2012-12-31 03:43:24 PM  

Ima4nic8or: I love this gem: We have to recognize that North America is the only place in the world where genetic engineering is an accepted form of food production. In the European Union it's banned," said Peter Bevan-Baker.


Show me the science which says that GMo Foods are a danger to the people of the United States if properly regulated, and I'll support a ban. Otherwise, Peter Bevan-Baker is talking out of his ass with a bandwagon appeal.
 
2012-12-31 03:44:54 PM  

Ima4nic8or: I love this gem: We have to recognize that North America is the only place in the world where genetic engineering is an accepted form of food production. In the European Union it's banned," said Peter Bevan-Baker.

That is the hippy argument against genetically modified fish? The EU bans it so we should too? With that sort of idiocy it is no wonder the FDA ignored them.


Bevan-Baker is a very nice man and generally well-informed (I've met him several times, PEI is a small place...) so I'm inclined to think that they did not select the best statement from him.

Not that I agree with him, mind you. He just normally is much better at explaining his position on things than shown in this article. GM foods are necessary and, really, I am quite glad to see the science move forward in my own province. We actually have quite a lot of aquaculture research that goes on here. This kind of stuff helps bring sorely needed jobs to the Island.
 
2012-12-31 03:46:51 PM  

d23: It's hard to have any confidence in an organization that does NOTHING but what their big corporate buddies tell them to do.

Disband them and start it again anew.


Your hippy buddies or the liberal college professor who is telling you that could not be further off the mark. I have worked for three different medical device companies during the last 10 years or so and have had a small role in approximately half a dozen 510k and PMA submissions and half a dozen site audits. In general FDA auditors and reviewers are quite conservative. If anything they err on the side of caution.

I wouldnt say they are grossly overly cautious but they do often ask for additional testing that reveals no new information and results in no improvement in safety. Unfortunately those requests do add to product costs. I am not suggesting they could do otherwise given their current knowledge. Since most of the reviewers do not really understand the products involved, or seemingly basic physics or material science, they have no choice but to take a conservative approach when they are in doubt. If you would really like to improve the effectiveness of the FDA this would be an area to do so.

The idea that they are somehow bow down to whatever companies ask of them is laughable. Out of all the submission I have knowledge of (beyond actual involvment) I can only think of only one or two where FDA did not ask numerous questions or request additional testing. Similarly, the majority of auditors will not be satisfied until they find something to turn into an observation or at least a recommendation.
 
2012-12-31 03:47:39 PM  
We have to recognize that North America is the only place in the world where genetic engineering is an accepted form of food production. In the European Union it's banned," said Peter Bevan-Baker.


EU also bans forms of free speech we have here in the US of A. And other things we have. So I guess we should be more like Europe?
 
2012-12-31 03:54:14 PM  

machoprogrammer: So I guess we should be more like Europe?


Psh. I spent a year in Paris for my freshman semester. It really opened my eyes to how the world is run by those little Eichmans. You should be so lucky. */lisp*

mypetjawa.mu.nu
 
2012-12-31 03:55:39 PM  

kendelrio: It's "Igor, THROW THE SWITCH!!!"

/Igor for the win


I... I misquoted the movie in the headline? If I had TotalFark, I'd have to give it up. I humbly apologize for misquoting Igor.

/but hey, I got my little Island on Fark! Go me!
 
2012-12-31 04:03:32 PM  
latimesblogs.latimes.com
Not sure if approves
 
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