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(Daily Mail)   British hospitals prepare to euthanize 60,000 old people. Minister calls this "fantastic step forward"   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 238
    More: Obvious, Royal College of Physicians  
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21779 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2012 at 12:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-31 11:32:00 AM

kinkkerbelle: When someone is dying they often become acidotic from rising C02 levels in the blood. They have an increased respiratory rate because they body tries to return to homeostasis by "blowing off" the extra C02. A normal respiratory rate is 10-20 breaths per minute. When people reach this state in the dying process, we see respiratory rates of up to 40 breaths per minute. The patient has to use extra muscles to breathe because of "air hunger." I've seen people move their entire bed with each breath due to this process. The morphine does slow down the respiratory rate but the goal is to slow it to near normal so that the patient is more comfortable and doesn't simply die from the exhaustion of breathing in that manner over several days. Morphine hides the "air hunger" from the patient and they don't feel the effects of not getting enough air. It's like being forced to run in a marathon and you can't stop running until you die. Morphine isn't used to kill people, it is given because letting that process go on for days or even weeks is torture to the patient. The morphine isn't killing the patient, the terminal disease process is killing the patient.


THIS.

We have to do a yearly pain control update class in our system for all nursing and AH providers (EMT/Ps, Nurses, Therapists), and this was one of the main talking points about end of life care and poor pain control, in that everyone is afraid to give the "last dose" because of the massive amounts of Morphine these patients are prescribed for comfort. One of the best points I've ever seen made about it was that even if a person dies after getting their morphine dose, the provider isn't the one that killed them in end-of-life care settings, the disease is. The provider only made them comfortable.

maglite: I say let it happen when it will happen on its own, do not accelerate it by removing treatment or introducing escalating levels of morphine.


And this attitude right here is the reason so many people with terminal illnesses die in pain and suffering. The whole point of introducing escalating levels of morphine is not to hasten death. It's to treat pain in a patient which is rapidly becoming unable to process opiate pain killers into their effective pro-drug due to the physiologic process of dying. I've taken terminal cancer patients home to die on long-distance transports who are literally on Morphine 30mg IVP max every HOUR. In-patient hospice settings may have them where there is no max dose per hour.

maglite: Morphine takes away pain AND the ability to fight. When it's inevitable, it's inevitable, so in a situation as you say it's just prolonging suffering... but my point is not to jump to a conclusion when things look bleak, you only get one shot at staying alive and my personally decision is to endure end of life pain if there is a chance I can rally for a few days, weeks or months


That's nice. Don't force your opinions or life philosophy about dying on others. Especially those who have to endure pain far beyond what you could ever understand just by breathing.
 
2012-12-31 11:50:33 AM
Part of a formal description of the LCP from an article linked earlier:

"...while legal consent is not required to place a patient on the LCP, the fact that the plan is being considered should always be discussed with a relative or carer and, if possible, the patient themselves."

How can EVERYONE not have a problem with this? The hospital literally does not HAVE to tell anyone, nor have any form of consent. Depending on how this decision is made it really is either death panels or Dr. Death. Either way, it is not the proper way to handle this kind of thing.

The LCP is a set of standards of care and notification. It is a fantastically good idea to have such standards and I am glad they do. But as long as the decision requires NO form of consent and even notification is not required under penalty of legal or financial punishment they will continue to have non-notification issues. You can't make that kind of think voluntary for the doctor or nursing staff because human nature will result in many instances of people not being notified when they "should".
 
2012-12-31 12:02:51 PM

faeriefay: unamused: Better than them being gun deaths.

Maybe I am crazy but I would much prefer a clean shot through the head rather than dehydrate to death. horrid.
/time to find a cave far away.
//insane, the whole of humanity is insane.


I was being a smartass about the way the Brits screech about their low gun deaths.  Well, hell yeah, you're killing them all in the hospitals.
 
2012-12-31 12:10:17 PM

duffblue: Now if we could only get the Baby Boomers to off themselves we'd be in business.


You first, asshole.
 
2012-12-31 12:16:59 PM
Look for it in the USSA in 3. . . . . . .2. . . . . . 1. . . . . . .
 
2012-12-31 12:19:04 PM
Man, the UK beat the US to the death panels on this one.

To be fair, the US had no plans to ever institute death panels, so now the Republitards have someone to biatch about across the pond.
 
2012-12-31 12:22:52 PM
Minister Dick Lamm nods in agreement, says "They have a duty to die."

Minister Dick Lamm (D)
 
2012-12-31 12:28:57 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: kinkkerbelle: Article is very one sided and it really plays on people's fears.
--a hospice nurse
[media.tumblr.com image 400x400]


You dislike someone posting who actually knows what (s)he's talking about?

Death and dying are ugly. Few of us would choose to be around it for a career, so all that's left is for us to criticize everyone who has to make decisions like this every damn day. It makes us feel protected from the ugliness somehow. And we too will die, maybe in a very ugly way. That's life.
 
2012-12-31 12:38:39 PM

BronyMedic:

Come see what life at any cost gets you, and you'll understand completely why I'm an asshole about this topic....

10 years ago I thought I could never uphold a DNR. Now I think anyone who doesn't do so is a complete monster.


Can you try being a little more idiotic? You still don't rate being ignored completely.
 
2012-12-31 12:50:37 PM

ZAZ: The pathway involves withdrawal of lifesaving treatment, with the sick sedated and usually denied nutrition and fluids. Death typically takes place within 29 hours.

Happens in America too, and may be standard for certain types of people in hospice care.

As it was explained to me in one case, involving a person with adequate health coverage, attendants monitor breathing rate to decide when the old, sick person is suffering too much. At that point they give morphine, and death usually follows within a couple days. It seemed like euthanasia to me, though the morphine dose is not enough on its own to kill.


As an anecdote, my father died this way. He had Lou Gehrig's disease (progressive paralysis) and was totally paralyzed except for a few small muscles. His breathing was pretty bad and they were soon to put him on a respirator. He went into hospice for two days to give my mom a break so she could get some sleep (24/7 awake care is hard on a person). They gave him morphine to help him sleep since he was there, and he was dead within hours. To be fair, when I asked, they said he was in Cheyne-Stokes respiration for a few hours before they gave him the morphine, and he was begging not to have the respirator.

Assisted suicide is sadly illegal, or he would have done it months ago. I challenge one person who is against it to ingest puffer fish toxin (with a medical team standing by) and see if they can do a few hours of total paralysis without changing their minds...now imagine living like that forever.
 
2012-12-31 12:56:15 PM

NewportBarGuy: Last time I checked, private health insurance was available for purchase in the UK. If the public system is not enough, sell your assets and buy it. Or die. You have an option.


But death panel talk is all racist, since any argument against Obama is fuled by racism.

It's almost like this validates everything we have been saying.  Even Sarah Palin is smarter than you. How does that feel?
 
2012-12-31 01:02:48 PM
Can't be said enough, so repost repost repost. Every last stupid person needs to be told this 60 times per day, and maybe after a few years they'll realize its true.

maddermaxx: Boojum2k: maddermaxx: When a source has shown they will stoop to lying and distortion to get the angle they want, it's quite fine to call them a bullshiat source - because that's what they are.

All news sources do that. Every last one of them. So now your option is to reject them all out of hand, or look around and compare stories and see what adds up. The blind partisan does the first to all except those that confirm their biases, the rational critical thinker does the second. Sometimes news providers don't cover something because it makes their arguments look weak. It's cowardly and reprehensible, but again, they all do it, no exceptions.

Says something about the quality of people who become journalists. Or maybe just the quality of people.

Both sides are bad so vote Daily Mail?

No, I'll call bullshiat on the idea that each source is as bad as the next, unless you think infowars and storm front are just as reliable and accountable as the BBC or NYT. While any paper/media outlet can fark up, you can still sort the ones that deliberately fark up all the time from the ones that are mostly reliable and useful sources that fark up on occasion.

So while I'll still look at multiple sources to find what's happening (and I read widely, trust me), I'm not going to read the Daily Fail and say "oh look, it's just as good as any other news source because all news sources are made equal, and I'll give it equal credit'. No, I'll call it a bullshiat source, because, as I said, it is one.

And from this Bullshiat source comes this bullshiat story, with a headline and opening lines meant to deliberately mislead, and the pertinent information, that paper work needs to be improved and pamphlets need to be handed out more often, are lost in the very bottom lines. This is why I call it the Daily Fail.

 
2012-12-31 01:12:28 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Jesus Fark.  I'm all for the idea of not prolonging death when folks are suffering - but this... this is absolutely sinister.


Damn straight such a thing should not be permitted with out the family or the patient if he or she is still of sound mind signing off on it.
 
2012-12-31 01:29:17 PM

fusillade762: DEATH PANELS!!!!

This is gonna be good. Off to make popcorn.


Popcorn is bad for you. Better insurance up while you can.
 
2012-12-31 01:31:00 PM
It seems that with modern medicine we have reached a point where we are able to extend life for several years beyond what is in a normal capacity. It is exceedingly common to see end of life care in a comatose-bedridden state, completely senile, with no observable cognitive thinking processes whatsoever. But as long as the client is paying, the end of life care can be extended for what seems like perpetuity.

In American hospices, it is practically axiomatic that the patient never dies with a full bank account. Their death always hits when their bank account does. Then the medications change up that create the conditions of the end of life to accelerate, then they switch to morphine which collapses their breathing rate and end of life becomes only days away.

It is really a sick, disturbing cycle, yet the families of those are so completely blinded by the "THEY MUST HANG ON!!!!" that nobody ever calls it out for what it is.

In my own family, I saw my grandmother bed ridden with Alzheimer for about 5-10 years, the last 2 she had practically no human functions to speak of. When her bank account clicked the switch to morphine came about, and the "controversy" in our family was that the hospice "killed our mother". Her estate came out to be about $2,500 per child. Yet in never occurred to anybody the even more daunting prospect, that their mother was kept alive needlessly and artificially for no utilitarian-life purpose, but reduced to a vegetative blank slate for no other reason to provide expensive monthly double digit hospice care for.

This appears to be an incongruous with modern medicine. Quite frankly, people need to start taking living wills seriously (if not legally mandatory) and early on in life, when they are cognitive to make such decisions. Destroying your family wealth for no reason to sit and in a bed staring at the ceiling while drooling and pooping yourself for years and years in a personal hell is not a decision I would think any sane and rational person would make.

And it when it comes to collective health responsibility these decisions need to be made maturely and frankly. And if the majority of people become poutraged at mentioned accelerating the end-of-life process for their loved ones, well then I fully support lying to them.
 
2012-12-31 01:56:40 PM
But something is happening, some kind of cleft in the moral life that is being widened, channeled out by torrents of small images that invite us to enjoy suffering or think ill of others. If all of this is widening the canyon between our better and worse selves, on which side of this chasm will we end up standing?

The current technology came upon us all in a rush within just a few decades. It went from science fiction to fact in the blink of an eye. Even as it was 'settling out' and still developing (LOTUS v/s Microsoft) folks were finding all sorts of ways to commercialize it, abuse it and twist it along lines the majority of us never thought of.

Remember the old 'Star Trek' mantra? They never give primitive civilizations technologies they have not grown in to? To do so meant more than likely they'd abuse them and turn them towards war.

Computers, the Internet and scores of other technologies came from military inventions. Others, developed for commercial use, were turned into military weapons.

Now, you live in a time where greed is good, predatory business practices are acceptable and there are innumerable bright guys out there who spend their time trying to find new and profitable uses for technologies without regard to the long term results.

Such as your cell phone and computer spying on you, keeping a record of where you surf, where you physically go and what you say. Along came some guy who figured out a way to turn on your computer camera remotely to look around your house. Another discovered how to tap into your wireless security system and even baby monitors and told everyone else how to do it.

Prior to that, companies decided to lodge tracking cookies on your systems to gather your information which they sold. SPAM popped up nearly as soon as E-mail did, sponsored by companies which paid the SPAMMER and laws were cut to basically hang the spammer but ignore the companies who paid him.

Don't forget that nearly as soon as the PC and Internet appeared, up popped hackers -- a previously unknown subset of society, which quickly warped into a serious problem. Following them, up popped security companies, selling you costly software to protect your computers -- and many using those free tests on line to determine if your system needed protecting or cleaning -- and rigging the results so it always did. They could sell more product that way. Who would know?

Over the years we've seen enough cell phone ads, boasting about all manner of new functions and 'app's' until you pretty much want to hurl, yet you must have them.

Humans can f**k up anything. It is understood that with every new invention, someone will actively work to find a way to make major bucks off it, usually in ways it was not intended to be used.

Others will simply abuse the technology just because they can. Like powerful laser pointers and incoming aircraft. Landlords and tiny spy cam's. Your neighbors and increasingly inexpensive video surveillance systems. Night vision.

Cablevision had to push Congress to make stealing cable a felony since it was so easy to do so. Plus folks built and sold tunable cable boxes.

The invention of graphics editing software just opened the door for a whole new area of easy abuse. So did the instantaneous video and imaging programs. You see it. You alter it. You post it for millions to view. Youtube has a mess of nearly expertly faked videos, most created 'just because they could'.

Within a few years of the Internet opening up, porn took advantage of it, developing a whole new set of programs which would drag you into their lascivious clutches whether you wanted to go there or not. Since no one had laws banning this action, it flourished.

Search engines popped up, giving you the ability to research nearly anything -- and to feed that somewhat perverted side you never let anyone see.
Also, in a remarkably short time, the media and advertising agencies found this to be virgin territory, where they could push the boundaries since, again, no one had developed many laws to govern it.

Like those annoying little commercials that pop up on your TV in the middle of a good movie and take up about a quarter of the screen. A kid's channel developed those which would interact with the ongoing show, -- annoying the krap out of the viewers.

Now, TV can cram in more commercials than ever before, legally.

Consider the Writers Strike over TV and movies. Consider also that this resulted in entertainment companies creating the 'Reality Show' -- which needed no script. So, no writers.

Again, within a remarkably short time, Reality TV went into exploitation mode (nearly everyone yelling and fighting with everyone else) and you're now stuck with things like 'The Honey BooBoo Show' (which ought to make you puke) and an assortment of 'Ghost Hunters', who never really discover anything but claim they do.

So, as you gave technology to society to transcend morality and laws, it morphed into an accepted thing, actually altering society.

Like suing the krap out of Dr.s who stopped to help at accidents eventually wound up opening the door for lawsuits previously considered too stupid to bother with and created the litigious society we have today. It also resulted, somewhat, in folks not bothering to help those in trouble -- which forced the creation of 'Good Samaritan' laws.

That, kind of, resulted in TV creating the 'Captured on Video' shows, where we all get to watch people behaving badly and the worse, the better. To make it more interesting, we'll add fading movie stars and actors to make 'witty' comments in the background.

Now, this isn't all of the influences that have created the 'Final Solution' but these have certainly been major players.

Toss in the economy, rising health care costs, massive population increases and major land development. (The new technology now enables you to get doom and gloom news faster than ever before and gives the Lunatic Fringe an open format. Gossip now travels at light speed.)

Plus, we're trying real hard to stop having major wars like in the past, which would kill off multi-millions of 'surplus' population, stabilize economies and diminish over crowding. Though medical advances learned in wars eventually contributed to extending the average life span by decades.

Too bad it hasn't done much to keep the body from falling apart and the mind from deteriorating.

In brief: We've done it to ourselves.
 
2012-12-31 02:34:23 PM

BronyMedic: I've seen what happens when you get a Cardiac Arrest back after 50 minutes, and they don't survive neuro intact. I've seen what happens when a massive stroke is ignored and goes beyond the treatment window. I've seen what dementia and Parkinsons does to a human body.


Have you watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate? All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.


Sorry, good piece you wrote, it just made me think of Roy's soliloquy.
 
2012-12-31 02:50:38 PM
Death panels. The right-wing always accuses their opponents of the evil shiat that they, themselves actually believe in or do.
 
2012-12-31 03:04:38 PM
Holly Distortions, Batman!

I particularly like how they quoted their own stories as a way to support an "unfolding scandal". No, it's not a scandal, it's a policy. And it's not a secret policy if you don't choose to read the shiat they send you about your benefits. People die. It sucks, but it's the one proven constant in the world. Personally I think we should have more say in the matter of when we die so we can go out with some class and not be dicks to our kids, but that's just me.
 
2012-12-31 03:50:50 PM

The One True TheDavid: Can you try being a little more idiotic? You still don't rate being ignored completely.


Exactly what did I write that was idiotic? Or did you just decide to threadshiat and troll in an attempt to look cute?

The fact of the matter is people are perfectly happy shoving Grandma and Grandpa to cling to a heartbeat for 10-20 years on the border of biological life and death while their minds turn to swiss cheese, and they are completely dependant on some underpaid, understaffed nursing aid to make sure they don't linger in their own piss and feces while getting nutrition from a tube, and they'll visit them once or twice every year to make themselves feel good about keeping a person who actually died a long time ago alive.

The best argument for end of life planning is a visit to your local nursing home.

And it's the truth. When my grandmother and her doctors thought she had dementia and she made an end of life plan and DNR for herself 10 years ago, I told my mother I could never uphold that. Now, if she were to die and I were here, I'd wait till they had that paperwork in hand before calling anyone. And I'd pray that if we couldn't find it, they never got her back.

It's quality of life, you asshole, not quantity.
 
2012-12-31 03:52:23 PM
ChuDogg:

Quite frankly, people need to start taking living wills seriously (if not legally mandatory) and early on in life, when they are cognitive to make such decisions. Destroying your family wealth for no reason

So that's your objection? No money left over for the heirs?


to sit and in a bed staring at the ceiling while drooling and pooping yourself for years and years in a personal hell is not a decision I would think any sane and rational person would make.

Welcome to Fark.
 
2012-12-31 03:59:32 PM
Rik01:

Search engines popped up, giving you the ability to research nearly anything -- and to feed that somewhat perverted side you never let anyone see.

+"married couple" +"missionary position" +procreation
 
2012-12-31 04:06:46 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Why not? Doctors do it all the time in the usa. Patient not responding..lingering in pain, no hope, they give too much meds, or withhold them, knowing that the patient will die. It's merciful. They just dont TALK about it openly.


This is a load of horse-puckey and you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading this kind of crap.
 
2012-12-31 04:06:56 PM
An American doctor who was practicing in Britain called a talk show to say he had a patient, 68 years old, who needed 3 days in the ICU to recover.

He was over 65 so the bureaucrats said no. He died as a result.

On another show, a brain surgeon called in to say he was instructed to provide "comfort care" to people who were too old and needed the therapy to cure them.

When ordinary Farkers flame and troll, I tend to blow it off as rhetoric. When certified doctors speak, I tend to listen.
 
2012-12-31 04:21:52 PM

BronyMedic: The One True TheDavid:

Can you try being a little more idiotic? You still don't rate being ignored completely.

Exactly what did I write that was idiotic?


NOTHING. Not in this thread. That's the problem: you make a point of popping up to publicly declare that you disagree with me on subject after subject, but then on certain issues that I think are very very important you post perfectly sensible stuff like this -- which can even be well-written too. Sometimes you even post something I didn't already know, or state a position I also hold so ably and persuasively that I'm tempted to steal it for use elsewhere. You might eventually cause me to change my mind on something, which is a very rare ability on Fark. Dammit. Hence see above.

So. Is it that I can't write with "irony" or is your meter broken?
 
2012-12-31 05:03:34 PM

The One True TheDavid: NOTHING. Not in this thread. That's the problem: you make a point of popping up to publicly declare that you disagree with me on subject after subject, but then on certain issues that I think are very very important you post perfectly sensible stuff like this -- which can even be well-written too. Sometimes you even post something I didn't already know, or state a position I also hold so ably and persuasively that I'm tempted to steal it for use elsewhere. You might eventually cause me to change my mind on something, which is a very rare ability on Fark. Dammit. Hence see above.

So. Is it that I can't write with "irony" or is your meter broken?


Well, if you're ignoring people because they disagree with you, I think the problem lies deeper than they disagree with you. I personally ignore people for being contributionless trolls, and there are plenty of those around.

You could have stated that a little more clearer, and the statement you made wouldn't have been taken as it was. :P
 
2012-12-31 05:21:11 PM
Here we go again, the "preachy right" against late late late late late term abortions.
 
2012-12-31 05:57:13 PM

baronvonzipper: fusillade762: DEATH PANELS!!!!

This is gonna be good. Off to make popcorn.

Popcorn is bad for you. Better insurance up while you can.


When did popcorn become bad for you? You must work for the peanut lobby...
 
BHK
2012-12-31 06:52:12 PM

some_beer_drinker: Benevolent Misanthrope: Jesus Fark.  I'm all for the idea of not prolonging death when folks are suffering - but this... this is absolutely sinister.

it's not sinister, it's just cost effective. has capitalism taught you people nothing?


It's not capitalism, it's progressivism. These people are now useless to the state and, since they can't vote, they are no good in their role as a dependent class. It is better to funnel the money to other programs that make healthier people dependent, compliant, submissive sheep.
 
2012-12-31 07:49:09 PM
So we have the euthanasia side and keep them alive beyond all reason side. You want the hospice nurse side?

Unless you have broken the ribs of a terminally ill person, most often a child or an elder, while trying to do fruitless CPR because the law requires it because they have no DNR you have no farking idea what horror is.

You feel little bird bones crack under your hands while the tears run down your cheeks, knowing that you are bringing them back. You know that it isn't CPR that is bringing them back, it is the PAIN of what you are doing to them that is bringing them back. You kick in the fight or flight, the adrenalin response by causing them the pain. I've had people who have stopped breathing come back simply because a family member yells at them and shakes them and begs not to die. Terminal patients have a lot more control over their own deaths than most people think. They die when they relax and decide to go or when they are simply too exhausted to fight for another breath.

Most people don't realize that it is really hard to die if you are uncomfortable. People fight pain and fear, it is very difficult to die when you are fighting. People die when you control the pain because they can relax long enough to choose to let go. If not, they get stuck in a days-long purgatory of suffering and we do it to them because we love them. You don't have to euthanize a patient for them to die relaxed, comfortable and at peace, all you have to do is control their symptoms and let them know that you are okay with them leaving and let them decide when they want to go.

For those with terminal illness, a comfortable, well-managed death is the last and perhaps greatest gift you can give someone. I know that must sound really lame to this cynical group but I've attended over 300 deaths. Terrified, in horrible pain and afraid to hurt your family by going when you don't really have a choice is not the way anyone wants to leave this world. My side for a less-horrible death for every terminal patient. Your argument is invalid.
 
2012-12-31 07:52:05 PM
2010: "No such thing as death panels, you are an ignorant fool for suggesting that is our intention!"

2012: "Killing patients who have no hope of recovery is only humane. You are an ignorant monster if you suggest otherwise."

What a difference a few years makes. Wonder what you have in store for us in a few more years...

(Liars.)
 
2012-12-31 08:32:20 PM
Kinkerbelle and bronymedic -- I sincerely hope I have professionals like you at my side when the inevitable comes to pass. You are good people, and you should feel good.
 
2012-12-31 09:53:40 PM

kermit_the_frog: Kinkerbelle and bronymedic -- I sincerely hope I have professionals like you at my side when the inevitable comes to pass. You are good people, and you should feel good.


I have far more respect for Kinkerbelle than myself, and I'd rather you do the same. I really am an asshole, it's just I tend to be an asshole when it benefits the people I care about. Plus, some of my patients tend to turn out okay. Hospice Nurses, on the other hand? It takes a special person to do that and not end up eating a bullet. Everyone they deal with will die, with few to no exceptions.
 
2012-12-31 09:55:19 PM

ManofPeas: 2012: "Killing patients who have no hope of recovery is only humane.Letting people who have no hope of recovery and for whom further treatment will result in needless suffering and token prolongation of death, and allowing them die in comfort and dignity free of pain and fear is only humane. You are an ignorant monster if you suggest otherwise."

What a difference a few years makes. Wonder what you have in store for us in a few more years...


Fixed that for you. You might have sounded like a pundit otherwise.
 
2012-12-31 10:33:23 PM
ManofPeas: 2010: "No such thing as death panels, you are an ignorant fool for suggesting that is our intention!"

2012: "Killing patients who have no hope of recovery is only humane. You are an ignorant monster if you suggest otherwise."

What a difference a few years makes. Wonder what you have in store for us in a few more years...

(Liars.)


1946 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_Trial We called it a crime against humanity and hung people for doing it
 
2012-12-31 11:56:11 PM

Oldiron_79: ManofPeas: 2010: "No such thing as death panels, you are an ignorant fool for suggesting that is our intention!"

2012: "Killing patients who have no hope of recovery is only humane. You are an ignorant monster if you suggest otherwise."

What a difference a few years makes. Wonder what you have in store for us in a few more years...

(Liars.)

1946 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_Trial We called it a crime against humanity and hung people for doing it


The skinheads have been champing at the bit, waiting for the last Holocaust survivors to die out and trying to make everyone forget the Nazi war crimes, all for the explicit purpose of having a chance to commit them again. BronyMedic's intentional conflation of DNR requests with intentionally misleading patients, telling them they will be treated when they are in fact scheduled for euthanasia, has the same purpose as Amos Quitler's intentional conflation of Israeli self-defense with aparteid and ethnic cleansing.

/it seems like a joke
//until inconvenient people start to disappear
 
2013-01-01 12:46:44 AM

Tatterdemalian: Oldiron_79: ManofPeas: 2010: "No such thing as death panels, you are an ignorant fool for suggesting that is our intention!"

2012: "Killing patients who have no hope of recovery is only humane. You are an ignorant monster if you suggest otherwise."

What a difference a few years makes. Wonder what you have in store for us in a few more years...

(Liars.)

1946 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_Trial We called it a crime against humanity and hung people for doing it

The skinheads have been champing at the bit, waiting for the last Holocaust survivors to die out and trying to make everyone forget the Nazi war crimes, all for the explicit purpose of having a chance to commit them again. BronyMedic's intentional conflation of DNR requests with intentionally misleading patients, telling them they will be treated when they are in fact scheduled for euthanasia, has the same purpose as Amos Quitler's intentional conflation of Israeli self-defense with aparteid and ethnic cleansing.

/it seems like a joke
//until inconvenient people start to disappear


i632.photobucket.com

lol, you're an idiot. Read up on what end of life care is all about, and patients are supposed to be informed and involved in the decision (and they are). Daily Fail is failing again, with false and sensationalist headlines. Really, the pertinent information is in the bottom paragraph - that's what they're basing the entire story on - people not getting pamphlets. No one here is saying people should be put to death, no one is talking euthanasia, except idiots like you.
Linking end of life care to the Nazis though? That marks you as a very special sort of individual.
 
2013-01-01 04:32:58 AM

Oldiron_79: We called it a crime against humanity and hung people for doing it


Withdrawing external life support and allowing people to die pain free by adjusting the doses of opiates to match their failing organ's capabilities to process it into an active pro-drug is not the same as shooting Phenol into their hearts to murder them. Try harder.

People like you, with your stupendously idiotic and uninformed rhetoric, is the exact reason why I told my family and friends my wishes should I become unable to make my own decisions, and why I have a plan of care and advanced directives with people I trust. I don't want someone like you making a decision to keep me alive on a ventilator and gastric feeding tube because of some misguided "LIFE IS PRECIOUS1111!!!!11101" tripe you set on your couch and spew at Fox News.
 
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