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(NPR)   Sounds like Otto from "Airplane" will have no problem getting a job next year   (npr.org) divider line 40
    More: Scary, Air Line Pilots Association, University of North Dakota, airplanes, airlines, mandatory retirements, shortages  
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4373 clicks; posted to Business » on 30 Dec 2012 at 7:57 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



40 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-30 05:57:57 PM  
There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
2012-12-30 06:07:24 PM  
They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.
 
2012-12-30 06:13:35 PM  
Luke, I am your father.
 
2012-12-30 06:23:16 PM  
As someone who got out of this game right before I got in, I'm getting a kick...

/bonus points for one of my professors being quoted in the article.
 
2012-12-30 06:29:02 PM  
As long as they don't run out of coffee.
 
2012-12-30 06:33:24 PM  
"They value friends, family. Those kind of lifestyle issues in many ways are more important than money. So they look at the challenge of being away from home roughly half the month, and they don't look at it as a positive," Lovelace says.

Not to mention the money is awful. I'm not in the US (it's even worse there) but it's not that people are electing to choose lifestyle over pay - they're saying they don't want a shiatty lifestyle for shiatty pay just so they get to walk through hotel lobbies and airport terminals in a pilot's uniform.
 
2012-12-30 08:04:05 PM  
dubsism.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-30 08:05:58 PM  

costermonger: "They value friends, family. Those kind of lifestyle issues in many ways are more important than money. So they look at the challenge of being away from home roughly half the month, and they don't look at it as a positive," Lovelace says.

Not to mention the money is awful. I'm not in the US (it's even worse there) but it's not that people are electing to choose lifestyle over pay - they're saying they don't want a shiatty lifestyle for shiatty pay just so they get to walk through hotel lobbies and airport terminals in a pilot's uniform.


There is some sort of strange irony that US trained pilots are going to Asia and India in search of better paying jobs.
I wonder if they have an equivalent H1B program over there.
 
2012-12-30 08:13:19 PM  
I have a friend who just got out of flying the jumbos across the water. It used to be that you'd have a little down time in an exotic city now and then, see the girls in California, have some kippers for breakfast in Houston, etc.. Not every time, but enough to keep hoping it was going to come true. Now, the airlines have you scheduled so tight that you basically have time for sleep and flight, and not much else until you're on the long way home. These days, there's not a lot you can do about it.
 
2012-12-30 08:53:14 PM  
i'll go fly for someone like fedex and let someone there go to the airlines. just as long as i can get someone to pay for my hours and a little more training ---any takers??????
 
2012-12-30 08:55:43 PM  

johndalek: i'll go fly for someone like fedex and let someone there go to the airlines. just as long as i can get someone to pay for my hours and a little more training ---any takers??????


LOL. People retire from FedEx, they don't start there.
 
2012-12-30 09:17:51 PM  
So after shiatting all over pilots for almost 2 decades claiming they were over paid they're surprised there arent thousands of people just dying to fly commuter routes for $50k a year....

/color me shocked
//yes I saw the quote in the article about pay but where all know where they were a couple years ago when the new pilots of today would have began their education.
 
2012-12-30 10:20:37 PM  
I thought the commuter pilots started in the 20s, not the 50s.
 
2012-12-30 10:36:02 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: I thought the commuter pilots started in the 20s, not the 50s.


Many are retired military, who are in their 40s and 50s
 
2012-12-30 10:41:21 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: I thought the commuter pilots started in the 20s, not the 50s.


Yeah 50k is what they're looking forward to.
 
2012-12-30 11:01:53 PM  

costermonger: TheGreatGazoo: I thought the commuter pilots started in the 20s, not the 50s.

Yeah 50k is what they're looking forward to.


If that. When I was looking at regionals back in 2007 you'd be lucky to gross anywhere near 40k.

Stuck in a shiatty domicile for shiatty pay, away from home 75% of the time, sitting on reserve and flying crappy equipment around with biatchy passengers? Not to mention the constant threat of furlough.

Yeah, I took a desk job instead. I don't regret it one bit.
 
2012-12-30 11:22:58 PM  

joness0154: costermonger: TheGreatGazoo: I thought the commuter pilots started in the 20s, not the 50s.

Yeah 50k is what they're looking forward to.

If that. When I was looking at regionals back in 2007 you'd be lucky to gross anywhere near 40k.

Stuck in a shiatty domicile for shiatty pay, away from home 75% of the time, sitting on reserve and flying crappy equipment around with biatchy passengers? Not to mention the constant threat of furlough.

Yeah, I took a desk job instead. I don't regret it one bit.




Bingo. Although I wish I hadn't spent damn near 100k before I bailed on aviation as a career. Saw the writing on the wall during the week after 9/11 and pulled the pin.

csb: my CPL AMEL is dated 9/10/01. Nevar forget.
 
2012-12-30 11:24:27 PM  

joness0154: Yeah, I took a desk job instead. I don't regret it one bit.


In American terms I'm a CFI-I/ME at a big school. I've been doing it for a few years and it's a far better living than the airlines.
 
2012-12-30 11:26:28 PM  

Fizpez: So after shiatting all over pilots for almost 2 decades claiming they were over paid they're surprised there arent thousands of people just dying to fly commuter routes for $50k a year....

/color me shocked
//yes I saw the quote in the article about pay but where all know where they were a couple years ago when the new pilots of today would have began their education.


There are still plenty of people willing to do it, it's the required flight hours to qualify that's the killer. Odds are that you don't spend 500 hours in a year driving a car, that's 3 months at 8 hours a work day as Pilot in Command. To triple that requirement only raises the barrier without addressing safety.

Hours in the cockpit don't make you safe. Practicing what to do in an emergency does and you don't do that in an actual plane. What should be happening is that pilots should be required to spend time in simulators practicing non-routine flying.
 
2012-12-30 11:32:13 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Practicing what to do in an emergency does and you don't do that in an actual plane. What should be happening is that pilots should be required to spend time in simulators practicing non-routine flying.


Yes, practicing things like an engine fire
 
2012-12-30 11:50:39 PM  
media.steampowered.com
"Don't worry scro'! There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded. She's a pilot now."

See? Nothing to worry about.
 
2012-12-31 12:32:22 AM  
"They're a number of factors in play..." WTF? That's no typo. That's just plain ignorant.
 
2012-12-31 01:47:53 AM  
So, they're mandating an ATP ticket (1500 hours) instead of a CPL (250 hours).

I wonder whose campaign coffers were greased for that bit of legislation.

There's no real safety increase as only the junior pilot would have the low hours while an ATP would be other one up front.

So much for mentoring.
 
2012-12-31 02:00:14 AM  

lohphat: So, they're mandating an ATP ticket (1500 hours) instead of a CPL (250 hours).

I wonder whose campaign coffers were greased for that bit of legislation.

There's no real safety increase as only the junior pilot would have the low hours while an ATP would be other one up front.

So much for mentoring.


The sad thing about all of this is that they used the Colgan crash to push it through, but if you read the NTSB report, one pilot had his ATP, the other had enough hours to get one. This rule would have done nothing, in other words.
 
2012-12-31 02:03:13 AM  
We don't *need* to jet everywhere. We can adjust with longer vacations to account for travel time.
 
2012-12-31 02:46:23 AM  
so the broken system...is still broken?

and in the five years since mandatory retirement was pushed from 60 to 65...all thats changed is now more flight time is required to even start at an airline?

/waiting to see things crash and burn
//no pun intended
 
2012-12-31 03:52:02 AM  

joness0154: Stuck in a shiatty domicile for shiatty pay, away from home 75% of the time, sitting on reserve and flying crappy equipment around with biatchy passengers? Not to mention the constant threat of furlough.


Don't forget all that delicious airport fare - and so well priced!
 
2012-12-31 08:14:26 AM  
With all the fatties in America, Leon should do ok too.
 
2012-12-31 08:46:36 AM  

nmemkha: We don't *need* to jet everywhere. We can adjust with longer vacations to account for travel time.


Good luck with that in the United States -- were we are worked to death for a pittance and do NOT get any mandatory vacation time.
 
2012-12-31 09:42:27 AM  

tillerman35: I have a friend who just got out of flying the jumbos across the water. It used to be that you'd have a little down time in an exotic city now and then, see the girls in California, have some kippers for breakfast in Houston, etc.. Not every time, but enough to keep hoping it was going to come true. Now, the airlines have you scheduled so tight that you basically have time for sleep and flight, and not much else until you're on the long way home. These days, there's not a lot you can do about it.


I thought one of the "perks" of the job was nailing the stewardesses.
 
2012-12-31 10:21:48 AM  

dustman81: tillerman35: I have a friend who just got out of flying the jumbos across the water. It used to be that you'd have a little down time in an exotic city now and then, see the girls in California, have some kippers for breakfast in Houston, etc.. Not every time, but enough to keep hoping it was going to come true. Now, the airlines have you scheduled so tight that you basically have time for sleep and flight, and not much else until you're on the long way home. These days, there's not a lot you can do about it.

I thought one of the "perks" of the job was nailing the stewardesses.


not for 50 years.
 
2012-12-31 10:59:33 AM  

buzzcut73: lohphat: So, they're mandating an ATP ticket (1500 hours) instead of a CPL (250 hours).

I wonder whose campaign coffers were greased for that bit of legislation.

There's no real safety increase as only the junior pilot would have the low hours while an ATP would be other one up front.

So much for mentoring.

The sad thing about all of this is that they used the Colgan crash to push it through, but if you read the NTSB report, one pilot had his ATP, the other had enough hours to get one. This rule would have done nothing, in other words.


Sounds like most legislations or regulations passed in an effort to DO SOMETHING.

Sure, they do something, but they don't do one damn thing about what people thought they were fixing. What they do is bring in unintended consequences that end up just screwing crap up for everybody else.
 
2012-12-31 11:11:42 AM  

tillerman35: I have a friend who just got out of flying the jumbos across the water. It used to be that you'd have a little down time in an exotic city now and then, see the girls in California, have some kippers for breakfast in Houston, etc.. Not every time, but enough to keep hoping it was going to come true. Now, the airlines have you scheduled so tight that you basically have time for sleep and flight, and not much else until you're on the long way home. These days, there's not a lot you can do about it.


Very true. Like most jobs these days, pilots are expected to do more with less in the name of "operational efficiency".

This article is the kind of thing that keeps the dream alive for most pilots that one day their job will pay them what they are worth while giving them the opportunity to enjoy the places they go.

Aviation is a volume business, and as long as that's true, nothing will change.

/Pilot
//Lucky I'm even employed
//And that attitude is why I have no life outside my job
 
2012-12-31 11:15:51 AM  

RoLleRKoaSTeR: nmemkha: We don't *need* to jet everywhere. We can adjust with longer vacations to account for travel time.

Good luck with that in the United States -- were we are worked to death for a pittance and do NOT get any mandatory vacation time.


I just want to tell you both good luck, we're all counting on you.
 
2012-12-31 07:24:57 PM  

johndalek: i'll go fly for someone like fedex and let someone there go to the airlines. just as long as i can get someone to pay for my hours and a little more training ---any takers??????


Fed Ex is an airline, they just happen to carry boxes as opposed to meat. And, they are the airline just about everyone wants to get on with. As of right now, you need 3 letters of rec. from their pilots and it doesn't hurt to have a couple of Space Shuttle landings on your resume. Then maybe they will call you for an interview.
 
2012-12-31 08:20:28 PM  
Working for 1994 wages in 2012.
Just awesome.
 
2012-12-31 10:00:34 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Working for 1994 wages in 2012.
Just awesome.


Cue the GED in Economics to tell you that $40K/yr means they could live like kings in Bumblescum, Arkansas and the only reason they're complaining is that they're living beyond their means.
 
2013-01-01 02:23:51 AM  
Don't worry, according to a certain film, the problem of piloting isn't the company: forcing flight crew to work beyond of what should be a natural human sleep/rest pattern, underpay of flight crew, or lack of proper maintenance of aircraft; it's alcoholism (and a lack of Jeebus, considering the film's strong undertones).

www.film.com

/apparently also according to Denzel, magic cocaine can also cure alcohol inhibition with no visible symptoms as long as you keep your sunglasses on!
 
2013-01-01 11:48:51 AM  
Pilot shortage? You mean pay shortage.
 
2013-01-01 03:38:05 PM  
I would do anything for 50k a year.

I've never made more than 28 because I'm a loser.
 
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