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(Politico)   Reid vs. McConnell. This is the fight of the century. A knockdown drag out between the Old Man and the Turtle. This is your official Sunday GOV Showdown. Let's get ready to HUMBLE   (politico.com) divider line 177
    More: Followup, Mitch McConnell, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, obama, rollbacks, Alternative Minimum Tax, minority leaders, turtles, senate democrats  
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2913 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Dec 2012 at 3:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-30 11:30:34 PM

Curious: machodonkeywrestler: Curious: Notabunny: nmrsnr: Obama has as much as said that if we pass Jan. 1 without a compromise he's going to ask Reid to enter a no-frills, straight up tax cut on everyone making less than $250k and dare the GOP to filibuster a tax cut for 98% or Americans.

The Republicans attached a new "chained" formula for calculating the COLA for Social Security, which Democrats are calling a "poison pill" and a non-starter. So there's a good chance Obama's plan is the one we'll get.

the chained formula sucks. why the fark do SS recipients, who get screwed on COLA as it is, have to get double screwed? damn Obama hasn't even got his second inauguration and he's pissing me off again.

What??

see this article for why i said Obama http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/nancy-pelosi-social-security _ n_2333285.html may be a republican idea but obama and pelosi are on board with it.


You can quit concern trolling now, the Republicans dropped that like six hours ago.
 
2012-12-30 11:32:10 PM

coco ebert: What's all this then?


i232.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-30 11:41:02 PM
We're going over the cliff. The GOP is willing to go over the cliff if they don't get all cuts extended. The dems are willing forego extensions of tax cuts for the 98% if it requires extending for the other 2% as well (even though it would cost only about 20% more to extend all cuts than those the dems want to extend).

So be it. Let's go over the cliff. Spending is too high and we never should have passed the bush tax cuts in the first place.
 
2012-12-30 11:46:43 PM

cameroncrazy1984: You can quit concern trolling now, the Republicans dropped that like six hours ago.


and as we all know it will vanish into the ether of unfilled dreams that the political landscape is littered with.

look i'm not trolling. that POS directly impacts me if it is put in any legislation. i don't care which party thought it up or which one is pushing it i don't like it. and you and i both know the wheeling and dealing isn't over.
 
2012-12-30 11:50:53 PM
I'd just like to gesture "power suck it" to the power of the purse. No more appropriations for your constituents until you manage the budget.
 
2012-12-30 11:54:37 PM

goodbomb: right wing ideologues are incorrect. i don't have time to explain.


Oh, okay. We'll just take your word for it, then.
 
2012-12-30 11:57:17 PM

Infernalist: diaphoresis: I'm hoping for a Thelma and Louise ending to the fiscal cliff

[baltimorepostexaminer.com image 490x246]
/I want it to happen so damn badly

It'll happen, most likely, but instead of going off a cliff, imagine a slow slope that takes a full year to reach the bottom, and can be entirely overturned by retro-active legislation by the next congress.


Except that the cliff contains some things like unemployment benefits and subsidies for dairy farmers going away. Even if they are re-instated, that's still time of actual suffering by people who can little afford it. What do you tell the 2 million about to be jolted off of unemployment insurance? "Don't worry, we'll settle things in February and say you can get back benefits. Then you can apply those backpaid benefits to the bills that went unpaid or the food you couldn't afford to buy in January." ?
 
2012-12-30 11:59:02 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: We're going over the cliff. The GOP is willing to go over the cliff if they don't get all cuts extended. The dems are willing forego extensions of tax cuts for the 98% if it requires extending for the other 2% as well (even though it would cost only about 20% more to extend all cuts than those the dems want to extend).

So be it. Let's go over the cliff. Spending is too high and we never should have passed the bush tax cuts in the first place.


Oh my Zeus. I never thought I would ever agree with you on anything.


I completely agree. Lets go over this so called 'cliff'. Its good for the country, and good for the middle class. On this alone, we reduce wasteful military spending by $1.2 trillion.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.


There's is a lot of roads, schools, and bridges we can build with that money instead of dumping it into some desert overseas.
 
2012-12-31 12:02:55 AM

namatad: so they are not going to raise the debt limit and they are not going to fark with the cuts, but they are going to play with who gets a tax cut?


They're out of time, and they know it. As they looked across the bargaining table at each other, an unspoken understanding passed between them. The question, abruptly, had changed from "What the fark are we going to do about this mess?" to "Which part of this mess is most politically damaging?" They agreed solemnly to work on just that part, and forget the rest. The deal was sealed with the secret Senate handshake. Because at the end of the day, this really was all about not yielding the levers of power. At the end of the day, it came down to self preservation. And a man has to have a job to live.
 
2012-12-31 12:04:18 AM

RminusQ: Infernalist: diaphoresis: I'm hoping for a Thelma and Louise ending to the fiscal cliff

[baltimorepostexaminer.com image 490x246]
/I want it to happen so damn badly

It'll happen, most likely, but instead of going off a cliff, imagine a slow slope that takes a full year to reach the bottom, and can be entirely overturned by retro-active legislation by the next congress.

Except that the cliff contains some things like unemployment benefits and subsidies for dairy farmers going away. Even if they are re-instated, that's still time of actual suffering by people who can little afford it. What do you tell the 2 million about to be jolted off of unemployment insurance? "Don't worry, we'll settle things in February and say you can get back benefits. Then you can apply those backpaid benefits to the bills that went unpaid or the food you couldn't afford to buy in January." ?


You tell them that unemployment insurance was never intended to be a permanent replacement for half your pre unemployment income. Either find a new job or go apply for welfare or food stamps or any other benefits you might qualify for.
 
2012-12-31 12:04:49 AM
I forgot to say something about this epic struggle.
 
2012-12-31 12:06:10 AM

nmrsnr: Obama has as much as said that if we pass Jan. 1 without a compromise he's going to ask Reid to enter a no-frills, straight up tax cut on everyone making less than $250k and dare the GOP to filibuster a tax cut for 98% or Americans.


A tax cut for the first $250,000 of income for ALL 100% of people in the country. That's what's on offer. Everyone - not just 98% - gets the same discount on the first $250k.

The difference is that the republicans want to maintain an ADDITIONAL tax break for income over $250k.
 
2012-12-31 12:06:49 AM

Goodfella: Debeo Summa Credo: We're going over the cliff. The GOP is willing to go over the cliff if they don't get all cuts extended. The dems are willing forego extensions of tax cuts for the 98% if it requires extending for the other 2% as well (even though it would cost only about 20% more to extend all cuts than those the dems want to extend).

So be it. Let's go over the cliff. Spending is too high and we never should have passed the bush tax cuts in the first place.

Oh my Zeus. I never thought I would ever agree with you on anything.


I completely agree. Lets go over this so called 'cliff'. Its good for the country, and good for the middle class. On this alone, we reduce wasteful military spending by $1.2 trillion.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.


There's is a lot of roads, schools, and bridges we can build with that money instead of dumping it into some desert overseas.


Yeah, I agree that money dumped in the desert is a waste. Although I'd disagree what we should do with those savings. It's better used to reduce borrowing than to waste on other spending here. We have a trillion dollar deficit. We need higher revenues and lower spending, defense and otherwise.
 
2012-12-31 12:15:15 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Goodfella: Debeo Summa Credo: We're going over the cliff. The GOP is willing to go over the cliff if they don't get all cuts extended. The dems are willing forego extensions of tax cuts for the 98% if it requires extending for the other 2% as well (even though it would cost only about 20% more to extend all cuts than those the dems want to extend).

So be it. Let's go over the cliff. Spending is too high and we never should have passed the bush tax cuts in the first place.

Oh my Zeus. I never thought I would ever agree with you on anything.


I completely agree. Lets go over this so called 'cliff'. Its good for the country, and good for the middle class. On this alone, we reduce wasteful military spending by $1.2 trillion.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.


There's is a lot of roads, schools, and bridges we can build with that money instead of dumping it into some desert overseas.

Yeah, I agree that money dumped in the desert is a waste. Although I'd disagree what we should do with those savings. It's better used to reduce borrowing than to waste on other spending here. We have a trillion dollar deficit. We need higher revenues and lower spending, defense and otherwise.


So a decades-long depression it is then. Economic death-spirals are good for the soul, or so I've heard.
 
2012-12-31 12:15:29 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: waste on other spending here.


What if we "wasted" it on infrastructure spending? That would have a double effect on the economy.
 
2012-12-31 12:24:59 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Debeo Summa Credo: waste on other spending here.

What if we "wasted" it on infrastructure spending? That would have a double effect on the economy.


Psh. Everyone knows the money we spent building the Interstate was completely wasted and that we would have been better off burning it in a giant bonfire.
 
2012-12-31 12:29:05 AM

Kuroshin: Debeo Summa Credo: Goodfella: Debeo Summa Credo: We're going over the cliff. The GOP is willing to go over the cliff if they don't get all cuts extended. The dems are willing forego extensions of tax cuts for the 98% if it requires extending for the other 2% as well (even though it would cost only about 20% more to extend all cuts than those the dems want to extend).

So be it. Let's go over the cliff. Spending is too high and we never should have passed the bush tax cuts in the first place.

Oh my Zeus. I never thought I would ever agree with you on anything.


I completely agree. Lets go over this so called 'cliff'. Its good for the country, and good for the middle class. On this alone, we reduce wasteful military spending by $1.2 trillion.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.


There's is a lot of roads, schools, and bridges we can build with that money instead of dumping it into some desert overseas.

Yeah, I agree that money dumped in the desert is a waste. Although I'd disagree what we should do with those savings. It's better used to reduce borrowing than to waste on other spending here. We have a trillion dollar deficit. We need higher revenues and lower spending, defense and otherwise.

So a decades-long depression it is then. Economic death-spirals are good for the soul, or so I've heard.


I believe you are exaggerating. The CBO estimates a 2.9% decline in GDP over the next year if we go off the fiscal cliff, relative to what we would have without the cliff (1-2% growth) returning to growth in subsequent years. It's not pretty but it's not a decades long depression by any means.

If you'd like to phase in the tax hikes and spending cuts, go ahead. But we never seem to have the political will to raise taxes or cut spending. Even Obama, who just won his second term and will never run for anything again, doesn't have the guts to tell the American middle class that maybe its better for the long term fiscal health of the country if they go back to Clinton era tax rates. No, he wants 82% of the bush cuts to be made permanent.

This fiscal cliff could be a once in a generation chance to right the fiscal ship. Raise taxes, slash spending. We'll get over it. We've been borrowing too much for too long.
 
2012-12-31 12:30:56 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Yeah, I agree that money dumped in the desert is a waste. Although I'd disagree what we should do with those savings. It's better used to reduce borrowing than to waste on other spending here. We have a trillion dollar deficit. We need higher revenues and lower spending, defense and otherwise.


Why? We can invest in infrastructure (which is sorely in need of upgrades), which has a stimulative effect on the economy, while also reducing the deficit in a responsible way over the next few decades with tweaks to Medicare and the cuts to defense.

OR we can slash spending drastically and plunge the country into another recession/depression and get nothing for it.
Our debt won't be solved in one budget deal, or one fiscal year, or even one decade of budgets. It took us decades to get here, and it will take decades to fix [responsibly]. Not all spending is ebil socialisms, and this ridiculous single-minded focus on it will do us no good in the long-term.
 
2012-12-31 12:33:49 AM

Serious Black: cameroncrazy1984: Debeo Summa Credo: waste on other spending here.

What if we "wasted" it on infrastructure spending? That would have a double effect on the economy.

Psh. Everyone knows the money we spent building the Interstate was completely wasted and that we would have been better off burning it in a giant bonfire.


And of course, every dollar spend on infrastructure is automatically accretive to GDP. There is no diminishing marginal returns at all. If one interstate highway system is good, three systems would be three times as good, right?

And sure we lose money on Amtrak every year, but thats only because we're focusing on highly populated east coast states. If we expanded to the midwest and Alaska with that shiat we'd see the economy blossom, am i right?

Take your infrastructure fairy dust elsewhere. Nobody is buying it here.
 
2012-12-31 12:36:41 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Kuroshin: Debeo Summa Credo: Goodfella: Debeo Summa Credo: We're going over the cliff. The GOP is willing to go over the cliff if they don't get all cuts extended. The dems are willing forego extensions of tax cuts for the 98% if it requires extending for the other 2% as well (even though it would cost only about 20% more to extend all cuts than those the dems want to extend).

So be it. Let's go over the cliff. Spending is too high and we never should have passed the bush tax cuts in the first place.

Oh my Zeus. I never thought I would ever agree with you on anything.


I completely agree. Lets go over this so called 'cliff'. Its good for the country, and good for the middle class. On this alone, we reduce wasteful military spending by $1.2 trillion.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.

$1.2 trillion saved, and that's just on what would have been wasted on the military alone.


There's is a lot of roads, schools, and bridges we can build with that money instead of dumping it into some desert overseas.

Yeah, I agree that money dumped in the desert is a waste. Although I'd disagree what we should do with those savings. It's better used to reduce borrowing than to waste on other spending here. We have a trillion dollar deficit. We need higher revenues and lower spending, defense and otherwise.

So a decades-long depression it is then. Economic death-spirals are good for the soul, or so I've heard.

I believe you are exaggerating. The CBO estimates a 2.9% decline in GDP over the next year if we go off the fiscal cliff, relative to what we would have without the cliff (1-2% growth) returning to growth in subsequent years. It's not pretty but it's not a decades long depression by any means.

If you'd like to phase in the tax hikes and spending cuts, go ahead. But we never seem to have the political will to raise taxes or cut spending. Even Obama, who just won his second term and will never run for anything again, doesn't have the guts to tell the American middle class that maybe its better for the long term fiscal health of the country if they go back to Clinton era tax rates. No, he wants 82% of the bush cuts to be made permanent.

This fiscal cliff could be a once in a generation chance to right the fiscal ship. Raise taxes, slash spending. We'll get over it. We've been borrowing too much for too long.


Sorry about the long quote. Mobile Fark.

Anyway, I'm not referring to the "cliff." I'm referring to slashing spending on domestic projects, instead focusing on paying off debt exclusively. Domestic spending, when spent on the right projects, returns more economic activity than the original dollars spent. Money spent directly on debt is money lost, dollar-for-dollar. The ROI is better on infrastructure projects.

Slashing spending on domestic projects during a time of slow economic activity is slashing your own throat. The time for austerity is after we're back on our feet.
 
2012-12-31 12:37:23 AM

Propain_az: hell yeah! fark rich white people!


Im not a rpub but u know we all pay more right?
 
2012-12-31 12:38:20 AM
But wait, we're going to build more aircraft carriers, right? I have no problem urging husky 12-year-olds to zerg rush the psycho shooting up their school, but I'm a Real Murican. When it comes to keeping my ass safe, cost is no object. Refresh the tree and all that. But not *my* blood.
 
2012-12-31 12:51:41 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Take your infrastructure fairy dust elsewhere. Nobody is buying it here.


Speak for yourself. Infrastructure spending is more than just Amtrak. It's maintaining or replacing bridges or sewer systems or dams that are close to a century old. It's improving our fragile power grid. These things are good for people, good for business, good for security.
 
2012-12-31 12:52:03 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Serious Black: cameroncrazy1984: Debeo Summa Credo: waste on other spending here.

What if we "wasted" it on infrastructure spending? That would have a double effect on the economy.

Psh. Everyone knows the money we spent building the Interstate was completely wasted and that we would have been better off burning it in a giant bonfire.

And of course, every dollar spend on infrastructure is automatically accretive to GDP. There is no diminishing marginal returns at all. If one interstate highway system is good, three systems would be three times as good, right?

And sure we lose money on Amtrak every year, but thats only because we're focusing on highly populated east coast states. If we expanded to the midwest and Alaska with that shiat we'd see the economy blossom, am i right?

Take your infrastructure fairy dust elsewhere. Nobody is buying it here.


Isn't sarcasm great?
 
2012-12-31 12:53:44 AM

The Why Not Guy: Debeo Summa Credo: Take your infrastructure fairy dust elsewhere. Nobody is buying it here.

Speak for yourself. Infrastructure spending is more than just Amtrak. It's maintaining or replacing bridges or sewer systems or dams that are close to a century old. It's improving our fragile power grid. These things are good for people, good for business, good for security.


Equally as important is upgrading our aging telecom infrastructure. When S. Korea is outdoing us, we have a major, major problem.
 
2012-12-31 01:04:39 AM
Apakolypse now!!!

fun time!

I hope harry fists ol turtle neck in the anus.

Where is yellow bastard, wher??

yea, I'm drunk.
 
2012-12-31 01:07:05 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Equally as important is upgrading our aging telecom infrastructure. When S. Korea is outdoing us, we have a major, major problem.


I agree. I know folks like Debeo will never admit they supported the Iraq war, but I'd rather spend on fairy dust infrastructure here in America than all the shock and awe in the Middle East any day of the week.
 
2012-12-31 01:18:23 AM
It's a farking disgrace that this is now how US federal budget negotiations work. The sequestration that was put in place to try to force both parties to work together didn't even even do that, since we're yet again at the same last minute hand wringing BS we had last time. And again, the best that can be hoped for is a last minute agreement that simply kicks the can down the road. What a farking joke for what these politicians say is, "the greatest country on Earth". Yet those same politicians, even after they agree to put triggers in place to force action on their part, still can't do it. Feh, absolutely disgraceful.
 
2012-12-31 01:24:31 AM

beer4breakfast: It's a farking disgrace that this is now how US federal budget negotiations work. The sequestration that was put in place to try to force both parties to work together didn't even even do that, since we're yet again at the same last minute hand wringing BS we had last time. And again, the best that can be hoped for is a last minute agreement that simply kicks the can down the road. What a farking joke for what these politicians say is, "the greatest country on Earth". Yet those same politicians, even after they agree to put triggers in place to force action on their part, still can't do it. Feh, absolutely disgraceful.


Take a look at why that is. There's a big chunk of America that doesn't see working with the other side as a good thing. They see it as weakness, and they reward it with primary challenges.

Speaking of, I think I'll have some tea.
 
2012-12-31 01:39:30 AM

The Why Not Guy: beer4breakfast: It's a farking disgrace that this is now how US federal budget negotiations work. The sequestration that was put in place to try to force both parties to work together didn't even even do that, since we're yet again at the same last minute hand wringing BS we had last time. And again, the best that can be hoped for is a last minute agreement that simply kicks the can down the road. What a farking joke for what these politicians say is, "the greatest country on Earth". Yet those same politicians, even after they agree to put triggers in place to force action on their part, still can't do it. Feh, absolutely disgraceful.

Take a look at why that is. There's a big chunk of America that doesn't see working with the other side as a good thing. They see it as weakness, and they reward it with primary challenges.

Speaking of, I think I'll have some tea.


You're wrong. They don't see it as weakness. They see it as siding with the Lord of Darkness.
 
2012-12-31 01:57:29 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Either find a new job or go apply for welfare or food stamps or any other benefits you might qualify for.


X = number of job openings
5X = number of unemployed persons no longer eligible for benefits

Solve for X = 5X

Required: must show your work.
 
2012-12-31 02:01:38 AM

El Pachuco: Debeo Summa Credo: Either find a new job or go apply for welfare or food stamps or any other benefits you might qualify for.

X = number of job openings
5X = number of unemployed persons no longer eligible for benefits

Solve for X = 5X

Required: must show your work.


X=0. Duh.
 
2012-12-31 02:03:59 AM

El Pachuco: Debeo Summa Credo: Either find a new job or go apply for welfare or food stamps or any other benefits you might qualify for.

X = number of job openings
5X = number of unemployed persons no longer eligible for benefits

Solve for X = 5X

Required: must show your work.


X=0 obviously. There are no jobs.
 
2012-12-31 02:15:36 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Serious Black: cameroncrazy1984: Debeo Summa Credo: waste on other spending here.

What if we "wasted" it on infrastructure spending? That would have a double effect on the economy.

Psh. Everyone knows the money we spent building the Interstate was completely wasted and that we would have been better off burning it in a giant bonfire.

And of course, every dollar spend on infrastructure is automatically accretive to GDP. There is no diminishing marginal returns at all. If one interstate highway system is good, three systems would be three times as good, right?

And sure we lose money on Amtrak every year, but thats only because we're focusing on highly populated east coast states. If we expanded to the midwest and Alaska with that shiat we'd see the economy blossom, am i right?

Take your infrastructure fairy dust elsewhere. Nobody is buying it here.


I wish you were f*cking kidding this time. If you seriously think that Amtrak is the only "infrastructure" that needs some fixing, you need a 9-gram lead injection to cure you of that brain damage.
 
2012-12-31 02:17:02 AM

It takes awhile for the American people to catch on, but they are catching on, as the last election and current polling shows.

If the Repubs block a deal this time there will be an even bigger backlash against them. The fact that the Turtle called up Joey Biden to try to help save his ass was a big tell that the GOP sees the corner they've painted themselves into and is starting to panic.

If the GOP tries this again and the 2014 midterm elections could give Obama the House back:

xtupload.com


Something about "you can fool some of the people all of the time (read: all GOP voters), and you can fool all of the people some of the time (read: George Bush from 2000 to 2005), but you can't fool all of the people all of the time (read: the majority of Americans, 2008 - present)"
 
2012-12-31 02:32:58 AM
Don't bother me. My gun needs petting!

www.fieldandstream.com
 
2012-12-31 02:52:08 AM
Republicans should buy some bootstrap derivatives until they can afford bootstraps.
 
2012-12-31 02:57:26 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: It's better used to reduce borrowing than to waste on other spending here.


No it isn't. With interest rates as low as they are this is a great time to borrow and spend on infrastructure; it's a great opportunity.

The majority of the money owed by the US is to itself and its citizens and institutions. Looking at it from one side it is debt, looking from the other side it is investment. I doubt all those retirement funds would thank us for paying off their US Treasuries early, forcing them to find another place to stow their money.

The only way to really screw up this sweet deal of low interest loans is to threaten to default on payment, and you can thank the Tea Baggers and the GOP for thinking that is a good idea with their debt ceiling hostage shenanigans. They are trying to scare low-information voters with the debt in order to leverage the reduction and elimination of social programs.
 
2012-12-31 03:17:34 AM
Another day, another thread trolled into the ground by debeo 'all or nothing' credo.

Gotta give him props for typing while in between fellating the wealthy.
 
2012-12-31 06:43:58 AM

The Why Not Guy: Debeo Summa Credo: Take your infrastructure fairy dust elsewhere. Nobody is buying it here.

Speak for yourself. Infrastructure spending is more than just Amtrak. It's maintaining or replacing bridges or sewer systems or dams that are close to a century old. It's improving our fragile power grid. These things are good for people, good for business, good for security.


What you haven't heard? We can build bridges with our bootstraps

/stimulus was used to fix a primary bridge less than 3 miles from me
//it was a complete deathtrap, so bad it was at an incline
///Romney supporters actually complained about it being "waste"
 
2012-12-31 09:00:53 AM
I can't help but shake the feeling that this, like the "super committee", is mere Kabuki theater to try to slip through deep and permanent cuts to social spending, while leaving tax rates on the wealthy at historic lows, or cutting them further, and leaving bloated "security" spending where it is, or raising it.

Once that's achieved, phase 2: higher income tax on the bottom 50%, higher sales tax, shift employer's share of payroll tax to employees, strip away any and all protections for workers.

I hope I'm paranoid. I used to be. Then along came the 21st century, and reality became worse than my paranoia.
 
2012-12-31 09:05:18 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Take your infrastructure fairy dust elsewhere. Nobody is buying it here.


No, no, no.

Pulling yourself into the air by your own bootstraps, aka "flying," THAT takes fairy dust.
 
2012-12-31 09:05:25 AM

Krustofsky: Guess I should be happy that I have two part-time jobs in addition to my full-time job.


You sound uniquely American.
 
2012-12-31 09:10:58 AM

El Pachuco: Debeo Summa Credo: Either find a new job or go apply for welfare or food stamps or any other benefits you might qualify for.

X = number of job openings
5X = number of unemployed persons no longer eligible for benefits

Solve for X = 5X

Required: must show your work.


4x = persons who won't find a job but shouldn't be getting unemployment benefits anymore. UE benefits are intended to be a temporary benefit, not perpetual. Those 4x can apply for other benefits, if they qualify. If they don't qualify, then they don't need them. See how easy that is?
 
2012-12-31 09:17:06 AM

Sergio_Van_Lukenstein: Does anybody have the website that this fight is streaming on? I really want to see it, but I don't have cable.


CSPAN.ORG generally runs live streaming of house and senate.Nothing on right now, but should be later
 
2012-12-31 09:32:02 AM

red5ish: Debeo Summa Credo: It's better used to reduce borrowing than to waste on other spending here.

No it isn't. With interest rates as low as they are this is a great time to borrow and spend on infrastructure; it's a great opportunity.

The majority of the money owed by the US is to itself and its citizens and institutions. Looking at it from one side it is debt, looking from the other side it is investment. I doubt all those retirement funds would thank us for paying off their US Treasuries early, forcing them to find another place to stow their money.

The only way to really screw up this sweet deal of low interest loans is to threaten to default on payment, and you can thank the Tea Baggers and the GOP for thinking that is a good idea with their debt ceiling hostage shenanigans. They are trying to scare low-information voters with the debt in order to leverage the reduction and elimination of social programs.


And interest rates are guaranteed to stay low forever? We're already borrowing a trillion a farking year. And we're borrowing at the short end of the yield curve. Primarily 5 years and shorter.

What happens when rates return to historic averages and we have to refinance all our debt? you're trying to delude low information voters by claiming trillion dollar deficits are no problem because we have low interest rates now. Very irresponsible and short sighted.
 
2012-12-31 09:33:30 AM
i owe myself a new brain : Those 4x can apply for other benefits, if they qualify. If they don't qualify, then they don't need them. See how easy that is?

Protip: it is possible to qualify for a public provision and yet not actually receive it. Especially when that program is disbursed by state or local governments which are legally bound to balance the budget and have taken a massive hit on the revenue side.

/Bored and feeding the shill.
 
2012-12-31 09:37:25 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: red5ish: Debeo Summa Credo: It's better used to reduce borrowing than to waste on other spending here.

No it isn't. With interest rates as low as they are this is a great time to borrow and spend on infrastructure; it's a great opportunity.

The majority of the money owed by the US is to itself and its citizens and institutions. Looking at it from one side it is debt, looking from the other side it is investment. I doubt all those retirement funds would thank us for paying off their US Treasuries early, forcing them to find another place to stow their money.

The only way to really screw up this sweet deal of low interest loans is to threaten to default on payment, and you can thank the Tea Baggers and the GOP for thinking that is a good idea with their debt ceiling hostage shenanigans. They are trying to scare low-information voters with the debt in order to leverage the reduction and elimination of social programs.

And interest rates are guaranteed to stay low forever? We're already borrowing a trillion a farking year. And we're borrowing at the short end of the yield curve. Primarily 5 years and shorter.

What happens when rates return to historic averages and we have to refinance all our debt? you're trying to delude low information voters by claiming trillion dollar deficits are no problem because we have low interest rates now. Very irresponsible and short sighted.


So because we're not guaranteed to have people throwing themselves at us and shouting "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" forever, we should not take advantage of the opportunity when we have it? I wonder what would have happened to Thomas Edison if he had the foresight to realize that people would stop using incandescent light bulbs and following your thinking.
 
2012-12-31 09:45:20 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: red5ish: Debeo Summa Credo: It's better used to reduce borrowing than to waste on other spending here.

No it isn't. With interest rates as low as they are this is a great time to borrow and spend on infrastructure; it's a great opportunity.

The majority of the money owed by the US is to itself and its citizens and institutions. Looking at it from one side it is debt, looking from the other side it is investment. I doubt all those retirement funds would thank us for paying off their US Treasuries early, forcing them to find another place to stow their money.

The only way to really screw up this sweet deal of low interest loans is to threaten to default on payment, and you can thank the Tea Baggers and the GOP for thinking that is a good idea with their debt ceiling hostage shenanigans. They are trying to scare low-information voters with the debt in order to leverage the reduction and elimination of social programs.

And interest rates are guaranteed to stay low forever? We're already borrowing a trillion a farking year. And we're borrowing at the short end of the yield curve. Primarily 5 years and shorter.

What happens when rates return to historic averages and we have to refinance all our debt?


If you're worried about that, just spend the money on repairing existing infrastructure. It's money we'll have to spend anyways, so do it while it's cheap (low interest rates, high unemployment) rather than wait until it's expensive.

Hell, we could spend a trillion dollars just fixing freight railways.
 
2012-12-31 10:02:13 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: What happens when rates return to historic averages and we have to refinance all our debt?


What do you think this is, a credit card?
 
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