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(AP)   News: The State Department has issued a updated travel advisory for Haiti, warning Americans planning to travel to the Caribbean island nation about robbery, lawlessness and infectious disease. Other News: Americans are still traveling to Haiti   (hosted.ap.org) divider line 118
    More: Strange, State Department, Americans, Haiti, emergency evacuation, military occupation, infectious diseases  
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1631 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Dec 2012 at 4:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-30 01:14:23 PM
Still the best place to buy a zombie.
 
2012-12-30 02:28:47 PM
Still safer than Chicago.
 
2012-12-30 02:32:51 PM
topnews.in

scoffs at such a fear-mongering tactic.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-30 02:35:59 PM
Royal Caribbean has a resort there where their ships make a stop.  They don't tell people they are going to Haiti, they refer to it as "Hispaniola".
 
2012-12-30 02:37:31 PM
Wyclef, Why Haiti, Why not.
 
2012-12-30 02:45:14 PM

vpb: Royal Caribbean has a resort there where their ships make a stop.  They don't tell people they are going to Haiti, they refer to it as "Hispaniola".


Wow. Don't people know that's not a country? Never mind, we're talking about people that go on cruises here.

I keed, I keed.
 
2012-12-30 03:14:25 PM

vpb: Royal Caribbean has a resort there where their ships make a stop.


Royal Caribbean's sole resort is in Jamaica.  It is a joint venture with Sandals.

The only resort on the Haitian side of Hispaniola was Club Med's "Magic Isle", which has been closed for some time.  There are over a hundred resorts on the Dominican Republic side, though.
 
2012-12-30 04:14:15 PM
dumbwire.com

CAN. YOU. DIG IT?!
 
2012-12-30 04:53:31 PM
Rush Limbaugh goes next door, where he can fark young boys with impunity.
 
2012-12-30 04:53:40 PM
If I owned Haiti and Hell, I'd rent out Haiti and live in Hell.

/shamelessly stolen
 
2012-12-30 04:54:12 PM

Dinjiin: The only resort on the Haitian side of Hispaniola was Club Med's "Magic Isle", which has been closed for some time. There are over a hundred resorts on the Dominican Republic side, though.


Punta Cana DR has become the third busiest Caribbean airport behind Cancun and San Juan PR.
 
2012-12-30 04:56:34 PM
Normally I wear protection, but then I thought, "When am I ever going to make it back to Haiti?"
 
2012-12-30 04:57:08 PM

Jake Havechek: Rush Limbaugh goes next door, where he can fark young boys with impunity.


Fark is not the dumping ground for your masturbatory fantasies. Try a fanfiction site.
 
2012-12-30 04:57:48 PM
Normally I wear protection, but then I thought, "When am I gonna make it back to Haiti?"
 
2012-12-30 04:57:56 PM

B.L.Z. Bub: Jake Havechek: Rush Limbaugh goes next door, where he can fark young boys with impunity.

Fark is not the dumping ground for your masturbatory fantasies. Try a fanfiction site.


Your mother writes fanfiction.
 
2012-12-30 04:58:15 PM
Check with your travel agent for the best time to travel.

t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-30 04:58:40 PM
So many places to see in the world, and you choose Haiti?
 
2012-12-30 04:58:41 PM

Alpine_Dino: Normally I wear protection, but then I thought, "When am I ever going to make it back to Haiti?"


Goddammit.
 
2012-12-30 04:59:28 PM

Dinjiin: vpb: Royal Caribbean has a resort there where their ships make a stop.

Royal Caribbean's sole resort is in Jamaica.  It is a joint venture with Sandals.

The only resort on the Haitian side of Hispaniola was Club Med's "Magic Isle", which has been closed for some time.  There are over a hundred resorts on the Dominican Republic side, though.



nope. RC still has an active stop in Haiti

Labadee
 
2012-12-30 05:00:47 PM
files.myfrogbag.com
"You didn't say rape."
"I don't like rape."
 
2012-12-30 05:02:28 PM
Nothing To See Here
Royal Caribbean has a resort there where their ships make a stop. They don't tell people they are going to Haiti, they refer to it as "Hispaniola".

wrong
http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/ports/group/home.do?portCod e =LAB
 
2012-12-30 05:03:04 PM
Visiting Haiti can be a bit shaky.
 
2012-12-30 05:05:13 PM

Dinjiin: vpb: Royal Caribbean has a resort there where their ships make a stop.

Royal Caribbean's sole resort is in Jamaica.  It is a joint venture with Sandals.

The only resort on the Haitian side of Hispaniola was Club Med's "Magic Isle", which has been closed for some time.  There are over a hundred resorts on the Dominican Republic side, though.


What about Labadee?
 
2012-12-30 05:05:14 PM

Apos: [topnews.in image 300x413]

scoffs at such a fear-mongering tactic.


On that note, any Anthony Bourdain fans who haven't seen the No Reservations special on Haiti should definitely watch it.
 
2012-12-30 05:07:31 PM

LemSkroob: nope. RC still has an active stop in Haiti

Labadee


I stand corrected.  It doesn't seem to show up in online searches.  Is it a fairly new resort?
 
2012-12-30 05:08:53 PM

Alpine_Dino: Normally I wear protection, but then I thought, "When am I ever going to make it back to Haiti?"


God damn it, way ahead of me.
 
2012-12-30 05:09:18 PM

Dinjiin: LemSkroob: nope. RC still has an active stop in Haiti

Labadee

I stand corrected.  It doesn't seem to show up in online searches.  Is it a fairly new resort?


been there since at least 2009, from what i can find.
 
2012-12-30 05:09:24 PM
News: The State Department has issued a updated travel advisory for Haiti, warning Americans planning to travel to the Caribbean island nation about robbery, lawlessness and infectious disease. Other News:

chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-30 05:12:11 PM
Dicslexics?

and
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-30 05:12:17 PM

vpb: Royal Caribbean has a resort there where their ships make a stop.  They don't tell people they are going to Haiti, they refer to it as "Hispaniola".


Good idea, but they really ought to take it one step further and tell people they're going for a brief trip on an airplane, rather than using the term "Royal Caribbean cruise."
 
2012-12-30 05:15:30 PM
Guess they've never watched The Serpent And The Rainbow.
 
2012-12-30 05:16:02 PM

Indolent: Still the best place to buy a zombie.


And it's just a hop to the Dominican Republic for some underage boy ass. Just remember to bring your Viagra.
 
2012-12-30 05:18:18 PM
"Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it," [Pat] Robertson said. "They were under the heel of the French ... and they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, 'We will serve you if you'll get us free from the French.'"

"True story," he continued. "And the devil said, 'OK, it's a deal.' Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after another."
 
2012-12-30 05:18:23 PM
Any place that you need several injections in order to safely visit is off my list.
 
2012-12-30 05:19:11 PM
If I had the money, I'd go. Then again, I've been somewhat fascinated with the place since reading The Comedians years ago in college.
 
2012-12-30 05:23:21 PM
Couldn't they make their life better by just walking over to the Dominican Republic?
 
2012-12-30 05:24:02 PM
Having traveled to haiti, and seeing the royal caribbean cruise company "compound" the build, with razor wire and armed guards with machine guns, I can only imagine

Dinjiin: LemSkroob: nope. RC still has an active stop in Haiti

Labadee

I stand corrected.  It doesn't seem to show up in online searches.  Is it a fairly new resort?


Nope on the new part. I cruised RC to labadee a little before 2000 IIRC. Though it does represent a hell of a contrast - it's a rich, RC style resort surrounded by concertina wire and men with machine guns ostensibly there to keep out the actual haitians (that aren't working the bar or the 'local goods' hut)
 
2012-12-30 05:25:49 PM
www.expertcomics.com

/obscure?
 
2012-12-30 05:30:31 PM
And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .
 
2012-12-30 05:34:35 PM

Alpine_Dino: Normally I wear protection, but then I thought, "When am I ever going to make it back to Haiti?"


Bad Idea...
 
2012-12-30 05:35:47 PM
I like how they greet you at the airport with Haitian leis.
 
2012-12-30 05:36:16 PM

Nothing To See Here: Still safer than Chicago.



Not really......

Study: Violent Crime Has Spiked in Haiti's Cities
By Trenton Daniel
Associated Press
Posted: 03/06/2012

UNODC: Intentional homicide, count and rate per 100,000 population (1995 - 2011) (146k XLS download)

CPD: YTD City Wide Crime Statistics (pdf)

Chicago Metro Area Population: around 9.5 million
Haiti Population (total): around 10.2 million

No doubt, Chitown is no walk in the park, especially in certain neighborhoods. However, the homicide rate per 100k is far lower as well as the overall number of homicides. Not that the statistic is anything to be proud of, but saying Haiti is safer is just false.
 
2012-12-30 05:36:20 PM

whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .



"We" caused Haiti's "3rd world squalor"  ?

Who is "we", and how exactly did "we" do that, pray tell?

Better still, what's your recipe for "fixing" said "3rd world squalor" ?
 
2012-12-30 05:38:59 PM
Other News: Americans are still traveling to Haiti

If you can recommend a better place to buy a child slave, I'd like to hear it.
 
2012-12-30 05:39:44 PM
I have a bunch of vacation days saved up...
 
2012-12-30 05:40:16 PM

Amos Quito: whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .


"We" caused Haiti's "3rd world squalor"  ?

Who is "we", and how exactly did "we" do that, pray tell?


LOL. Apologize for much colonialism, much?

Better still, what's your recipe for "fixing" said "3rd world squalor" ?
You must really be bored if you can't think of a few obvious examples. My guess is that you wouldn't want any resources diverted to improving social conditions there. Oh well.
 
2012-12-30 05:41:51 PM

whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .


This.  Propping up one of the sleaziest dictators ever because he pinky-swore he'd keep Commies out of there didn't help matters in the least.
 
2012-12-30 05:42:11 PM
There's a million places in the world to see and that place isn't one of them I need to see.

Fark you Haitians. Straighten up your country.
 
2012-12-30 05:42:30 PM

Amos Quito: "We" caused Haiti's "3rd world squalor"  ?


In an earlier thread, someone cited a French court ruling on marginal tax rates as if it has real bearing on the fiscal cliff talks stateside, so it's only fair the U.S also shares ownership of French colonial failures.
 
2012-12-30 05:42:31 PM
I'd love to visit Haiti. It's one of the few places in the world where a man of humble beginnings such as myself could rise to a upper management position in some warlord's regime. If things didn't work out, it's a short flight home.
 
2012-12-30 05:42:57 PM

homelessdude: Nothing To See Here: Still safer than Chicago.

Not really......

Study: Violent Crime Has Spiked in Haiti's Cities
By Trenton Daniel
Associated Press
Posted: 03/06/2012

UNODC: Intentional homicide, count and rate per 100,000 population (1995 - 2011) (146k XLS download)

CPD: YTD City Wide Crime Statistics (pdf)

Chicago Metro Area Population: around 9.5 million
Haiti Population (total): around 10.2 million

No doubt, Chitown is no walk in the park, especially in certain neighborhoods. However, the homicide rate per 100k is far lower as well as the overall number of homicides. Not that the statistic is anything to be proud of, but saying Haiti is safer is just false.


Good knowledge, thanks.

/How do you stand on pigs feet?
 
2012-12-30 05:43:33 PM
Stopped in labadee last year. Strange place. It is completely walled off with guards just like people are saying. Zip line, little roller coaster, strong rum drinks & hot hot sun. It's not real Haiti at all.
 
2012-12-30 05:46:58 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Indolent: Still the best place to buy a zombie.

And it's just a hop to the Dominican Republic for some underage boy ass. Just remember to bring your Viagra.


Go away

I'm sure there are plenty of other sites you'd fit in at
 
2012-12-30 05:48:14 PM

Killer Cars: Amos Quito: "We" caused Haiti's "3rd world squalor"  ?

In an earlier thread, someone cited a French court ruling on marginal tax rates as if it has real bearing on the fiscal cliff talks stateside, so it's only fair the U.S also shares ownership of French colonial failures.


We do, actually. Ever since Haiti achieved independence and we failed use our influence to help it achieve a stable democracy, but I know you know that, and also have no actual interest in addressing it.
 
2012-12-30 05:50:01 PM

Nothing To See Here: /How do you stand on pigs feet?



my official stance on pigs feet is: t1.gstatic.com
 
ows
2012-12-30 05:52:29 PM
listen, you got a caribbean island where folks eat mud cakes to survive.

maybe try fishing? i'm just sayin'
 
2012-12-30 05:53:30 PM

DownDaRiver: ArcadianRefugee: Indolent: Still the best place to buy a zombie.

And it's just a hop to the Dominican Republic for some underage boy ass. Just remember to bring your Viagra.

Go away

I'm sure there are plenty of other sites you'd fit in at


Ain't been here long, have ya?
 
2012-12-30 05:54:07 PM

whidbey: Amos Quito: whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .


"We" caused Haiti's "3rd world squalor" ?

Who is "we", and how exactly did "we" do that, pray tell?

LOL. Apologize for much colonialism, much?



No, I wasn't there. I have an airtight alibi, in fact.


whidbey: Better still, what's your recipe for "fixing" said "3rd world squalor" ?
You must really be bored if you can't think of a few obvious examples. My guess is that you wouldn't want any resources diverted to improving social conditions there. Oh well.



Let me guess: Throw money at it.

But not YOUR money, other people's money, right?
 
2012-12-30 05:54:12 PM

ows: listen, you got a caribbean island where folks eat mud cakes to survive.

maybe try fishing? i'm just sayin'


Trolling?
 
2012-12-30 05:56:25 PM

Amos Quito: Let me guess: Throw money at it.

But not YOUR money, other people's money, right?


Yeah, actually some of it is. It's called "foreign aid."

Throw money at it

Because any and all attempts at social reform are relegated to such terms in your mind. How cynical of you.
 
2012-12-30 05:57:08 PM

lewismarktwo: Any place that you need several injections in order to safely visit is off my list.


Here's a list of countries and their recommended vaccines.

All of them seem to require "Routine" (the most common few) and "Hepatitis B". These are some more vaccine-oriented travel destinations:

* Haiti: 5
* Philippines: 6
* China, Congo: 7
* Nigeria, Uganda, : 8
 
2012-12-30 05:58:11 PM

whidbey: Killer Cars: Amos Quito: "We" caused Haiti's "3rd world squalor"  ?

In an earlier thread, someone cited a French court ruling on marginal tax rates as if it has real bearing on the fiscal cliff talks stateside, so it's only fair the U.S also shares ownership of French colonial failures.

We do, actually. Ever since Haiti achieved independence and we failed use our influence to help it achieve a stable democracy, but I know you know that, and also have no actual interest in addressing it.



Seems to me that the more we "help" (meddle with political affairs of) other countries, the more enemies we make.
 
2012-12-30 06:00:18 PM

whidbey: Amos Quito: Let me guess: Throw money at it.

But not YOUR money, other people's money, right?

Yeah, actually some of it is. It's called "foreign aid."

Throw money at it

Because any and all attempts at social reform are relegated to such terms in your mind. How cynical of you.



In the mean time, I'm waiting for you to list some alternative approaches, and I expect that I'll be waiting for a while, yet.
 
2012-12-30 06:00:41 PM

whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .


Correct. We caused it by sending a lot of aid and free food. Which causes local farms (their entire economy) to go out of business and destroys their economy. The Haitian government has been asking the U.S. to stop sending free stuff for a long time.
 
2012-12-30 06:01:27 PM

whidbey: Ever since Haiti achieved independence and we failed use our influence to help it achieve a stable democracy, but I know you know that, and also have no actual interest in addressing it.


Supporting Duvalier was bad, and it's part of a long list of the U.S backing terrible horses because ZOMG COMMUNIZM. No argument there. There's a difference though between "U.S policies have strongly hindered Haiti's growth and stability" and "we caused it".
 
2012-12-30 06:03:01 PM
I've worked with several older Haitian engineers over the years. They told me that basically, anyone who could leave, did. The ones that didn't need to, stayed, as well as those that couldn't leave. So you're left with a country with the rich and powerful and the indigent.

How do you fix that?
 
2012-12-30 06:03:17 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .

Correct. We caused it by sending a lot of aid and free food. Which causes local farms (their entire economy) to go out of business and destroys their economy. The Haitian government has been asking the U.S. to stop sending free stuff for a long time.


The government corruption doesn't help matters either.
 
2012-12-30 06:03:18 PM

Amos Quito: whidbey: Killer Cars: Amos Quito: "We" caused Haiti's "3rd world squalor"  ?

In an earlier thread, someone cited a French court ruling on marginal tax rates as if it has real bearing on the fiscal cliff talks stateside, so it's only fair the U.S also shares ownership of French colonial failures.

We do, actually. Ever since Haiti achieved independence and we failed use our influence to help it achieve a stable democracy, but I know you know that, and also have no actual interest in addressing it.


Seems to me that the more we "help" (meddle with political affairs of) other countries, the more enemies we make.


Yeah well I'd agree that powerful private industries didn't want stable democracies there, either. We still have the obligation to do the right thing, and yes it's going to take some "throwing money" to do it.
 
2012-12-30 06:03:41 PM

ows: listen, you got a caribbean island where folks eat mud cakes to survive.

maybe try fishing? i'm just sayin'


They cut down all the trees decades ago. The erosion killed the reef system.
 
2012-12-30 06:05:39 PM

12349876: Punta Cana DR has become the third busiest Caribbean airport behind Cancun and San Juan PR.


Really? At 1503 PST there isn't a single vessel in either Punta Cana or Cancun. San Juan has eight.
 
2012-12-30 06:06:22 PM
Oh. Airport.

Never mind.
 
2012-12-30 06:07:45 PM

Amos Quito: Because any and all attempts at social reform are relegated to such terms in your mind. How cynical of you.


In the mean time, I'm waiting for you to list some alternative approaches, and I expect that I'll be waiting for a while, yet.


No you aren't. But you're welcome to keep pretending that keeping things the way they are is the best solution, that any attempts at engaging a country in a positive non-exploitative manner is a waste of resources.

I already knew what your position was going to be when I made the mistake of replying to you the first time.
 
2012-12-30 06:10:57 PM

homelessdude: Nothing To See Here: Still safer than Chicago.

Not really......

Study: Violent Crime Has Spiked in Haiti's Cities
By Trenton Daniel
Associated Press
Posted: 03/06/2012

UNODC: Intentional homicide, count and rate per 100,000 population (1995 - 2011) (146k XLS download)

CPD: YTD City Wide Crime Statistics (pdf)

Chicago Metro Area Population: around 9.5 million
Haiti Population (total): around 10.2 million

No doubt, Chitown is no walk in the park, especially in certain neighborhoods. However, the homicide rate per 100k is far lower as well as the overall number of homicides. Not that the statistic is anything to be proud of, but saying Haiti is safer is just false.


From your link:

"Haiti's capital saw 60.9 murders per 100,000 residents over the year leading up to February 2012 " [...]  "In comparison, New York City's homicide rate was less than 7 per 100,000 in 2011, while Oakland, California, had 23 homicides per 100,000 residents."


And the Haitians manage to do all this while being sorely deprived of access to firearms:

"Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population -  The rate of private gun ownership in Haiti is 0.62 firearms per 100 people"
Say what you will about those Haitians, but when it comes to murder, they're clever and resourceful.
 
2012-12-30 06:11:04 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .

Correct. We caused it by sending a lot of aid and free food. Which causes local farms (their entire economy) to go out of business and destroys their economy. The Haitian government has been asking the U.S. to stop sending free stuff for a long time.


Pretty sure we caused it by turning a blind eye to corporations raping the f*ck out of their natural resources and making sure elected governments were overthrown, but I wouldn't mind seeing a link. I have a hard time believing that any sort of aid to a starving country is a bad thing.
 
2012-12-30 06:12:59 PM
mlkshk.com
 
2012-12-30 06:15:44 PM

born_yesterday: I'd love to visit Haiti. It's one of the few places in the world where a man of humble beginnings such as myself could rise to a upper management position in some warlord's regime. If things didn't work out, it's a short flight home.


It's a Fantasy Camp for synchophants.
 
2012-12-30 06:16:29 PM
I'm trying to imagine why anyone would want to go there in the first place. It's a cesspool.
 
2012-12-30 06:18:12 PM
skinink: So many places to see in the world, and you choose Haiti?

Ugh... this. Nothing I enjoy more on my vacation than grinding poverty, hunger and sadness all around me. Haiti would even be worse than Jamaica, which is bad enough.
 
2012-12-30 06:22:02 PM

ArcadianRefugee: DownDaRiver: ArcadianRefugee: Indolent: Still the best place to buy a zombie.

And it's just a hop to the Dominican Republic for some underage boy ass. Just remember to bring your Viagra.

Go away

I'm sure there are plenty of other sites you'd fit in at

Ain't been here long, have ya?


Long enough to know that homosexual pedophilia comments aren't as edgy as you might think tthey are
 
2012-12-30 06:24:17 PM

Amos Quito:
And the Haitians manage to do all this while being sorely deprived of access to firearms:
"Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population - The rate of private gun ownership in Haiti is 0.62 firearms per 100 people". Say what you will about those Haitians, but when it comes to murder, they're clever and resourceful.



Well, first off, I don't consider murder clever at all. In fact, I consider it to be the action of people who are anything but clever. I think clever people find solutions that, if in the least, do not involve snuffing out another human life.

Also, the gun ownership analogy you are using (and I am not completely clear why you are bringing it up) is pretty much an argument of false analogy . The issue was about murder rate, not firearm ownership. So I am not sure where you were going with that.
 
2012-12-30 06:25:44 PM

whidbey: Amos Quito: whidbey: Killer Cars: Amos Quito: "We" caused Haiti's "3rd world squalor" ?

In an earlier thread, someone cited a French court ruling on marginal tax rates as if it has real bearing on the fiscal cliff talks stateside, so it's only fair the U.S also shares ownership of French colonial failures.

We do, actually. Ever since Haiti achieved independence and we failed use our influence to help it achieve a stable democracy, but I know you know that, and also have no actual interest in addressing it.


Seems to me that the more we "help" (meddle with political affairs of) other countries, the more enemies we make.

Yeah well I'd agree that powerful private industries didn't want stable democracies there, either.



Why, for heaven's sake?


whidbey: We still have the obligation to do the right thing, and yes it's going to take some "throwing money" to do it.



Again, what (exactly) is the "right thing"? Whose money shall we throw, and what affect do you presume said money might have?

Beyond that, who should oversee the administration of these funds? Haitians? Americans? Someone else?

Don't these do-gooder programs usually just feed corruption while the poor and hungry just get poorer and hungrier?
 
2012-12-30 06:26:41 PM
So just reissuing the last advisory then?
 
2012-12-30 06:31:43 PM

DownDaRiver: ArcadianRefugee: DownDaRiver: ArcadianRefugee: Indolent: Still the best place to buy a zombie.

And it's just a hop to the Dominican Republic for some underage boy ass. Just remember to bring your Viagra.

Go away

I'm sure there are plenty of other sites you'd fit in at

Ain't been here long, have ya?

Long enough to know that homosexual pedophilia comments aren't as edgy as you might think tthey are


Are Rush Limbaugh jokes still good?

/"edgy"? really? on a site filled with priest pedophilia comments?
 
2012-12-30 06:36:33 PM

whidbey: Amos Quito: Let me guess: Throw money at it.

But not YOUR money, other people's money, right?

Yeah, actually some of it is. It's called "foreign aid."

Throw money at it

Because any and all attempts at social reform are relegated to such terms in your mind. How cynical of you.


For someone so concerned about other people, you reply like you're an asshole. You bought up this point, so instead of being sarcastic just answer it. You started it.
 
2012-12-30 06:41:02 PM

Amos Quito: Yeah well I'd agree that powerful private industries didn't want stable democracies there, either.


Why, for heaven's sake?


So you're just going to pretend that huge corporations like United Fruit and Dole want the locals deciding what should be done with the resources? Is this a joke?

whidbey: We still have the obligation to do the right thing, and yes it's going to take some "throwing money" to do it.


Again, what (exactly) is the "right thing"? Whose money shall we throw, and what affect do you presume said money might have?

Beyond that, who should oversee the administration of these funds? Haitians? Americans? Someone else?

Don't these do-gooder programs usually just feed corruption while the poor and hungry just get poorer and hungrier?


The "right thing" is to provide the kind of aid and leadership to improve Haiti's educational system and further them along to to a stable economic system where they can self-govern without the fear of living in a zone full of war lords. Come on. This isn't a radical concept.

It's actually pretty hard to tell where you're just being willfully dense, or just too cynical to consider a course of action at all.
 
2012-12-30 06:53:52 PM

homelessdude: Amos Quito:
And the Haitians manage to do all this while being sorely deprived of access to firearms:
"Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population - The rate of private gun ownership in Haiti is 0.62 firearms per 100 people". Say what you will about those Haitians, but when it comes to murder, they're clever and resourceful.

Well, first off, I don't consider murder clever at all. In fact, I consider it to be the action of people who are anything but clever. I think clever people find solutions that, if in the least, do not involve snuffing out another human life.

Also, the gun ownership analogy you are using (and I am not completely clear why you are bringing it up) is pretty much an argument of false analogy . The issue was about murder rate, not firearm ownership. So I am not sure where you were going with that.



My response wasn't necessarily directed AT YOU. I don't necessarily disagree with what said, but I did read your link, did some research, and posted what I thought was interesting comparative data.

America is currently in an anti-gun hissy-fit, and in the minds of many 'Mericuns, murder=guns, therefor (in their minds) fewer guns automatically means lower murder rate.

Port au Prince offers a different perspective.
 
2012-12-30 06:58:02 PM
A friend's daughter went to Haiti to "try to help out." She probably gave out sunscreen and expounded on the virtues of Tupperware. Of course, she's from Venice, CA so Haiti may have been a refuge from insanity.
 
2012-12-30 07:02:41 PM

whidbey: but I wouldn't mind seeing a link.


Link

They've been pleading with us for years to stop destroying their only form of employment by dumping ships full of free stuff on their shores.
 
2012-12-30 07:04:34 PM

Ronin_S: ThrobblefootSpectre: whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .

Correct. We caused it by sending a lot of aid and free food. Which causes local farms (their entire economy) to go out of business and destroys their economy. The Haitian government has been asking the U.S. to stop sending free stuff for a long time.

The government corruption doesn't help matters either.


What government? They haven't had a functioning one in fifteen years.
 
2012-12-30 07:07:04 PM

whidbey: Amos Quito: Yeah well I'd agree that powerful private industries didn't want stable democracies there, either.


Why, for heaven's sake?

So you're just going to pretend that huge corporations like United Fruit and Dole want the locals deciding what should be done with the resources? Is this a joke?

whidbey: We still have the obligation to do the right thing, and yes it's going to take some "throwing money" to do it.


Again, what (exactly) is the "right thing"? Whose money shall we throw, and what affect do you presume said money might have?

Beyond that, who should oversee the administration of these funds? Haitians? Americans? Someone else?

Don't these do-gooder programs usually just feed corruption while the poor and hungry just get poorer and hungrier?

The "right thing" is to provide the kind of aid and leadership to improve Haiti's educational system and further them along to to a stable economic system where they can self-govern without the fear of living in a zone full of war lords. Come on. This isn't a radical concept.



So you're saying that we need to go in and take charge - to teach these primitive, backward people how to rise up to OUR standards by doing things OUR way?

You know, you started off by saying that "we" caused Haiti's economic problems with out "colonization".

Now it sounds like you're saying that the "problem" is that "we" didn't colonize them thoroughly enough.
 
2012-12-30 07:08:59 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: whidbey: but I wouldn't mind seeing a link.


BTW, many economists in African nations have been begging us for the same thing for decades.

Link
 
2012-12-30 07:35:42 PM
Eyes back to our own fiscal issues....
 
2012-12-30 07:43:26 PM

Amos Quito: homelessdude: Amos Quito:
And the Haitians manage to do all this while being sorely deprived of access to firearms:
"Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population - The rate of private gun ownership in Haiti is 0.62 firearms per 100 people". Say what you will about those Haitians, but when it comes to murder, they're clever and resourceful.

Well, first off, I don't consider murder clever at all. In fact, I consider it to be the action of people who are anything but clever. I think clever people find solutions that, if in the least, do not involve snuffing out another human life.

Also, the gun ownership analogy you are using (and I am not completely clear why you are bringing it up) is pretty much an argument of false analogy . The issue was about murder rate, not firearm ownership. So I am not sure where you were going with that.

My response wasn't necessarily directed AT YOU. I don't necessarily disagree with what said, but I did read your link, did some research, and posted what I thought was interesting comparative data.

America is currently in an anti-gun hissy-fit, and in the minds of many 'Mericuns, murder=guns, therefor (in their minds) fewer guns automatically means lower murder rate.

Port au Prince offers a different perspective.



Cool....I hear ya. Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like we are on the same page. Don't get me wrong either about PaP and the parallels with the Windy City. Chicago has a seriously screwed up situation that is not likely to get better soon. There is a "that's just the way it is" culture when looking at the city's issues that is pervasive in not only city ranks, but in the general public. I have only been back here for 7 years, but I still am not used to the way people so blithely dismiss corruption and crime as a way of life as one might dismiss a kid who stole a cookie. It is a weird mindset.

NYC had this mentality too up until just about the turn of the century. While it has diminished quite a bit, it has at the same time been at expense of the civil liberties of large swaths of the population who are not powerful enough in politics to defend themselves. While I am not dismissing criminal behavior, I also like to think that beating down people is not an answer either.

But Haiti is a different case in that it has the unfortunate history of getting kicked in the teeth, stepped on, stripped down and for the most part raped by not only governments, but big business. What is left is a largely dysfunctional society (governmentally dysfunctional) that is still years from recovery, if not decades. The progress has been slow, but not for a lack of trying. Instead, what probably amounts to over 100 years of getting kicked to the curb just won't go away overnight. It is going to take some time - maybe a couple of generations.

I will stop here before I get too much farther into a wall-of-text. Suffice to say, the whole Haiti situation is not as cut and dry as the bad guys wearing the black hats and the good guys wearing the white hats.
 
2012-12-30 07:52:18 PM
What happened to all that money Clinton and Bush collected?
 
2012-12-30 07:56:14 PM
My wife's friend has gone to Haiti three times this year. She does something in the medical field.

I heard Haiti has natural resources in their mountains. Maybe eventually that will help Haiti out.

Big maybe ofcourse.
 
2012-12-30 08:00:13 PM

whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .


Subby's fail attempt at humor notwithstanding, the "americans still traveling to Haiti" are mostly aid workers and volunteers, trying to do something about the horrible conditions. Some friends of my family go on a regular basis with a farkload of building materials, medical supplies, etc. They've never told any stories about being in any kind of danger; sometimes the locals will volunteer themselves as unofficial bodyguards because they know that letting medical aid get killed is a really retarded thing to do in the long term.
 
2012-12-30 08:14:14 PM

whidbey: Amos Quito: Yeah well I'd agree that powerful private industries didn't want stable democracies there, either.


Why, for heaven's sake?

So you're just going to pretend that huge corporations like United Fruit and Dole want the locals deciding what should be done with the resources? Is this a joke?

whidbey: We still have the obligation to do the right thing, and yes it's going to take some "throwing money" to do it.


Again, what (exactly) is the "right thing"? Whose money shall we throw, and what affect do you presume said money might have?

Beyond that, who should oversee the administration of these funds? Haitians? Americans? Someone else?

Don't these do-gooder programs usually just feed corruption while the poor and hungry just get poorer and hungrier?

The "right thing" is to provide the kind of aid and leadership to improve Haiti's educational system and further them along to to a stable economic system where they can self-govern without the fear of living in a zone full of war lords. Come on. This isn't a radical concept.

It's actually pretty hard to tell where you're just being willfully dense, or just too cynical to consider a course of action at all.


As someone who's lived in Haiti longer than everyone else in this thread combined, let me tell you that Haitian *schools* are adequate, in the Catholic tradition. The problems can be found in thrrupt government and the vastly inequitable distribution of wealth.
 
2012-12-30 08:17:19 PM

Indolent: Still the best place to buy a zombie.


Yeah but they ate voo doo zombies not undead ones
 
2012-12-30 08:45:37 PM

whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions...



So, exactly how much money have you sent to Haiti in order to aid their miserable "social-economic" conditions?

/the word is "socioeconomic", dumbass
 
2012-12-30 08:49:21 PM

born_yesterday: I'd love to visit Haiti. It's one of the few places in the world where a man of humble beginnings such as myself could rise to a upper management position in some warlord's regime. If things didn't work out, it's a short flight home.


If that doesn't work out there are always the Mexican cartels. Los Zetas are hiring I hear!
 
2012-12-30 09:14:43 PM

eatin' fetus: whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions...


So, exactly how much money have you sent to Haiti in order to aid their miserable "social-economic" conditions?

/the word is "socioeconomic", dumbass


So because I personally haven't spearheaded the movement and donated shiattons of cash means there isn't a problem, but I see you've appointed yourself Lord King of Terminology Corrections Bhufu. Got it.

/hurr
 
2012-12-30 09:22:55 PM

whidbey: eatin' fetus: whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions...


So, exactly how much money have you sent to Haiti in order to aid their miserable "social-economic" conditions?

/the word is "socioeconomic", dumbass

So because I personally haven't spearheaded the movement and donated shiattons of cash means there isn't a problem, but I see you've appointed yourself Lord King of Terminology Corrections Bhufu. Got it.

/hurr


So, you've sent nothing. Unsurprisingly, you failed to spearhead yet another movement -- the idea that we should fix this problem with other people's money. Many have beaten you to the punch on that one.

I get it though, you're an ideas guy.
 
2012-12-30 09:27:28 PM

eatin' fetus: whidbey: eatin' fetus: whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions...


So, exactly how much money have you sent to Haiti in order to aid their miserable "social-economic" conditions?

/the word is "socioeconomic", dumbass

So because I personally haven't spearheaded the movement and donated shiattons of cash means there isn't a problem, but I see you've appointed yourself Lord King of Terminology Corrections Bhufu. Got it.

/hurr

So, you've sent nothing. Unsurprisingly, you failed to spearhead yet another movement -- the idea that we should fix this problem with other people's money. Many have beaten you to the punch on that one.

I get it though, you're an ideas guy.


Not so sure about that, he still hasn't answered the point that his suggested cure for colonialism sounds a lot like colonialism. So no ideas either.
 
2012-12-30 10:12:01 PM

Boojum2k: I get it though, you're an ideas guy.

Not so sure about that, he still hasn't answered the point that his suggested cure for colonialism sounds a lot like colonialism. So no ideas either.



Well, they're "hey man, you know what would be awesome," between-bong-rips-style ideas that seem to change every time a significant logical obstacle is encountered. But they're still ideas.

And they're all but guaranteed to change to foaming at the mouth against American corporations/military/whoever and denouncement of our involvement in the first place if the U.S. gets involved and doesn't completely fix the problem within a year or two.
 
2012-12-30 10:32:26 PM
The only thing awesome about this is that the fark "random words become ad links" chose "travel to the caribbean" as the words and offered to help me travel there. Good one guys, the hard sell.
 
2012-12-30 10:36:09 PM
I'd assume it's mostly missionaries, doctors and such that travel there...
 
2012-12-30 10:49:09 PM

whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .


Oh boo hoo and what a silly woo you are!
 
2012-12-30 11:28:47 PM
Ehh that advisory is to keep people that have no idea what they are doing from going into the country... If you have the right connections down there people won't fark with you.
My dad goes down there every few months and loves the culture and people he has met.
If you are some weird bible hugger that wants to convert everyone from their voodoo ways, you will be farked.
 
2012-12-31 01:53:54 AM
images.zap2it.com
Disapproves.

They could gin up some kind of tourist industry based on restavecs. Or maybe that already exists.
 
2012-12-31 01:57:30 AM

Porous Horace: [images.zap2it.com image 270x360]
Disapproves.

They could gin up some kind of tourist industry based on restavecs. Or maybe that already exists.


www.latimes.com

"Wow... she has my nose!"
 
2012-12-31 02:42:18 AM

whidbey: ThrobblefootSpectre: whidbey: And of course, no one wants to address how we caused the kind of 3rd world squalor found in Haiti and have done nothing to alleviate its miserable social-economic conditions so we don't have these passive-aggressive "warnings" about visiting the country in the first place. .

Correct. We caused it by sending a lot of aid and free food. Which causes local farms (their entire economy) to go out of business and destroys their economy. The Haitian government has been asking the U.S. to stop sending free stuff for a long time.

Pretty sure we caused it by turning a blind eye to corporations raping the f*ck out of their natural resources and making sure elected governments were overthrown, but I wouldn't mind seeing a link. I have a hard time believing that any sort of aid to a starving country is a bad thing.


Agreed.
 
2012-12-31 02:47:56 AM

DownDaRiver: ArcadianRefugee: DownDaRiver: ArcadianRefugee: Indolent: Still the best place to buy a zombie.

And it's just a hop to the Dominican Republic for some underage boy ass. Just remember to bring your Viagra.

Go away

I'm sure there are plenty of other sites you'd fit in at

Ain't been here long, have ya?

Long enough to know that homosexual pedophilia comments aren't as edgy as you might think tthey are


IMHO the comment was ment to be taken tounge in cheek, pointing out a serious problem in the 'better off' DR.
 
2012-12-31 03:58:26 AM

eatin' fetus: the idea that we should fix this problem with other people's money.


HURR DEE HURR DEE DURRRRR
 
2012-12-31 05:30:48 AM
whidbey:

LOL. Apologize for much colonialism, much?

Cliché much, much?

You might have a good point buried under that trying-too-hard, teeny-bopper babble.
 
2012-12-31 06:05:46 AM
Haiti is the best, ever, place, ever.

Just go to Haiti.

Your government just don't want you to leave your precious, economy-less, zombie-less country for Haiti.

Come to Haiti.

The fun never ends.

The drinking never ends.

Come to Haiti.

You are all welcome to Haiti.

Come to Haiti.
 
2012-12-31 08:09:44 AM
Hey, why not?

I hear Papa Doc's Tonton Macoute nightclub is the most happenin' place in the whole Caribbean!
 
2012-12-31 09:35:40 AM
Fun fact: when the Haitians won their independence, they were made to pay reparations, with interest, for France's property losses (i.e. they bought their own farking freedom, on credit).

They didn't finish paying until 1947.

I shiat you not.
 
2012-12-31 11:26:40 AM
Haiti's been farked in many ways, both intentional (when they were the first black-ruled country in the world, absolutely no country would support them), and unintentional (their exposure to hurricanes, their volcanic soil, which is very hard to farm, as opposed to the fertile soil on the DR side of the island).

Not sure the solution to the seemingly intractable problems. But the blame, like that in many impoverished corrupt nations, lies only partly on the western/colonizing nations, and would be very difficult to fix.

"Throwing money at the problem" hasn't exactly worked in most situations, although investing money towards developing industries does seem to have some promise (see china's involvement in africa right now for example).

Ultimately it's up to the haitians to find solutions for the many issues they face. Handouts and benign paternalism is certainly not gonna get us or them anywhere.
 
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