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(Telegraph)   Judge rules Christians have no right to refuse to work on Sundays   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 247
    More: Asinine, Judges' Rules, senior judge, MBA, reasonable accommodation, Employment Appeal Tribunal, legal claims, other Christians  
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4917 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Dec 2012 at 10:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-30 01:03:53 AM
images.sodahead.com
 
2012-12-30 01:08:56 AM
I'm pretty sure anyone can refuse to work any time.
 
2012-12-30 01:42:23 AM

Relatively Obscure: I'm pretty sure anyone can refuse to work any time.


yeah, but it's a question of whether you can be fired for it.

"christian" is a large enough class of people that it is pretty easy to show that plenty of people who identify as "christian" will work on sunday, and who don't seem to believe that not working on sunday is a central belief.

Mormons are pretty explicitly not supposed to work on sunday, or transact business of any kind if they can avoid it. There are vague rules about sewing on sunday. The test that is applied is the "ox in a mire" test. If your ox is stuck in a mire, and you don't go get it out, it'll die. It's an emergency. There are exemptions for caring for the ill or infirm, etc.

But it's kinda like how methodists don't recognize each other at the liquor store. A lot of mormons end up doing minor grocery shopping on sunday - just whatever they needed for dinner that they forgot on saturday. What i find odd is that they usually do this shopping in their sunday best. Guys in suits picking up a pint of sour cream, etc.

Thing is, a lot of mormons work on sunday. Generally because they have a crappy job where you can't get out of it. I wonder if this has something to do with the mormon brand of prosperity doctrine, which has only really existed for the last 30-40 years. The well-off don't have to have a shiat job that requires weekend work.

So i don't know if mormons would fare any better in an anti-discrimination case like this.
 
2012-12-30 05:32:58 AM

JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.


If only there were a group who would advent the second coming of that belief...
 
2012-12-30 08:23:01 AM
If you can't regularly fulfill the duties and obligations to your job due to religious beliefs, find another one or choose a different career. Or just attention whore at how oppressed you are
 
2012-12-30 09:22:51 AM
www.examiner.com
Sounds like somebody has a case of the Sundays!
 
2012-12-30 09:24:37 AM

JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.


so you think that God started his work week on Sunday to create Heaven and Earth?
 
2012-12-30 10:28:14 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

so you think that God started his work week on Sunday to create Heaven and Earth?


Well, I'm sure he had to get coffee and read his email... maybe scan the main page of Fark

/no one likes to just jump into it first thing
 
2012-12-30 10:46:26 AM
Why don't they all just work at chick-fil-a?
 
2012-12-30 10:48:08 AM
Hmmmm, which options might a reasonable person choose.

Option 1:
Work someplace which is not open Sundays

Option 2:
Before starting a job, explain your objection to working Sundays and ask the employer to agree

Option 3:
AFTER starting a job, DEMAND every Sunday off. Skip your assigned shifts. Sue your employer
 
2012-12-30 10:50:39 AM
While this makes me happy that religidiots got rejected in this case, things like this make me rage so hard.

No, your religion's retarded notions do not have to be catered to by the rest of society.

Yes, you do have to remove your burka covering your face to buy booze.

Yes, you do have to take off your turban in the Legion.

No, your religion does not give you the right to force it on your employees.

Ohmygoddammitsomuch
 
2012-12-30 10:50:55 AM
I told that kraut a farking thousand times, I don't roll on Shabbos.

i165.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-30 10:51:27 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

so you think that God started his work week on Sunday to create Heaven and Earth?


Jews celebrate the Sabbath (Saturday), Christians observe Sunday because it's the day traditionally thought to be when Jesus rose from the dead. It just goes to show most Christians don't understand their own religion.
 
2012-12-30 10:52:25 AM
As a Christian myself, I think that most Christians would agree that it is not a sin to work on Sunday.

JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.


And, IMO, the reason God commanded a day of rest to start with was so his people wouldn't wear themselves out working day after day without taking a day to R&R.
 
2012-12-30 10:54:08 AM

jaytkay: Hmmmm, which options might a reasonable person choose.

Option 1:
Work someplace which is not open Sundays

Option 2:
Before starting a job, explain your objection to working Sundays and ask the employer to agree

Option 3:
AFTER starting a job, DEMAND every Sunday off. Skip your assigned shifts. Sue your employer


To be fair at least according to her claim she did #2.
 
2012-12-30 10:54:15 AM
Apparently this woman explained her aversion to working on Sundays before taking the job, so she has that in her favor. On the other hand, her employer was within its rights to say "Look, we thought we could work around this Sunday thing but it's not happening. If you refuse to come in on Sundays we're going to have to let you go." That is apparently pretty much what did happen, and the fact that it ended up in court suggests that Ms. Mba was just looking for an excuse to be a martyr in the first place, The judge acted correctly, the war on Christianity continues to be a paranoid fantasy, end of story.
 
2012-12-30 10:55:48 AM
cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2012-12-30 10:56:40 AM
Looks like I might be the only one, but I do have a problem with this. As long as reasonable accommodations can be made, and according TFA, they could, the woman should be allowed to work. What bugs me is that I've been noticing more and more that employers are going after people like this "just because." If you require some kind of special treatment, either due to your religion or health or something else, it seems that employers specifically will target and ignore your requests just to force you to go around them, and then they have justification to write you up. I cant tell you how many times I heard of students getting shifts when they have class, or parents scheduled beyond when their kids gt home from school, even though in the past there was never a problem and the employer had ample notice and was willing to make allowances.

And can we please stop with the "she could just get another job" bit? She might not be able to because of this shiathole of an economy we're in, so stfu. That should NEVER be a justification for firing someone.
/atheist here, so it's not like I would ever claim a religious holiday, but I completely respect those who do
 
2012-12-30 10:57:04 AM
"the decision puts Christians at a disadvantage to other religions"

and they proceed to give examples of other religions being allowed exemptions for Friday, Saturday, or whatever. Or, they don't.
 
2012-12-30 10:58:04 AM

Fart_Machine: To be fair at least according to her claim she did #2.


Oh I see you're one of those read-the-article fact-finding smartypants types :-)
 
2012-12-30 10:58:23 AM
Clearly it is her personal interpretation, not church doctrine. With over 63,000 sub-cults, what can you expect?
 
2012-12-30 10:59:13 AM

JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.


Depends on what specific faith you are. For some, it is Saturday, for others it is Sunday, and for others still it is Friday.

That, in addition to the other poster above who pointed out that literally tens of millions of Christians have no problem working on Sundays, thus demonstrating it not to be a core belief of Christianity, pretty much clinches it. There's nothing special about Sunday to Christians as a whole. If one belongs to one of the sects that does consider Sunday particularly special, then get a job at Chic-fil-A, and you'll never have to worry about it again.
 
2012-12-30 11:00:50 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: As a Christian myself, I think that most Christians would agree that it is not a sin to work on Sunday.JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

And, IMO, the reason God commanded a day of rest to start with was so his people wouldn't wear themselves out working day after day without taking a day to R&R.


Many Biblical scholars and theologians would agree with that last statement. I am no scholar, nor am I a theologian, but I think you hit the nail on the head.

Also, first-century Christians often met at sunrise on the first day of the week, sang songs, had a meal, shared cyclical letters that came from apostles and other prominent believers... then disbanded and went to work. Particularly in the area surrounding Israel, where most believers came from Jewish heritage, it would have been odd to refuse work on the first day of the week.
 
2012-12-30 11:00:51 AM
So in reading the article, it appears she was scheduled to work on Sundays, worked those shifts but asked not to be scheduled for future Sundays, the company refused, so she quit. It appears she never actually refused to work a shift, nor was she "sacked". That, to me, should be the end of the story. I can't comprehend the mindset that then says, hey, I'm going to sue somebody over this!
 
2012-12-30 11:01:14 AM
Not work on Sundays? That explains the Jacksonville Jaguars
 
2012-12-30 11:01:48 AM
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-12-30 11:02:26 AM

Peki: Looks like I might be the only one, but I do have a problem with this. As long as reasonable accommodations can be made, and according TFA, they could, the woman should be allowed to work. What bugs me is that I've been noticing more and more that employers are going after people like this "just because." If you require some kind of special treatment, either due to your religion or health or something else, it seems that employers specifically will target and ignore your requests just to force you to go around them, and then they have justification to write you up. I cant tell you how many times I heard of students getting shifts when they have class, or parents scheduled beyond when their kids gt home from school, even though in the past there was never a problem and the employer had ample notice and was willing to make allowances.

And can we please stop with the "she could just get another job" bit? She might not be able to because of this shiathole of an economy we're in, so stfu. That should NEVER be a justification for firing someone.
/atheist here, so it's not like I would ever claim a religious holiday, but I completely respect those who do


It's more an incident of her employer reneging on an unofficial verbal agreement to try and honor her request than any sort of religious discrimination which is why the case failed.
 
2012-12-30 11:02:36 AM

Tamater: While this makes me happy that religidiots got rejected in this case, things like this make me rage so hard.

No, your religion's retarded notions do not have to be catered to by the rest of society.

Yes, you do have to remove your burka covering your face to buy booze.

Yes, you do have to take off your turban in the Legion.

No, your religion does not give you the right to force it on your employees.

Ohmygoddammitsomuch


Those are sensible rules. The problem comes when employers pick out other rules to specifically discriminate against a group of people. Or when a person in that group picks out a rule that gets him preferential treatment. Balance is the hard part, especially because there are asshats on both sides.

/this is why we can't have nice things
 
2012-12-30 11:04:36 AM

Kome: JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

Depends on what specific faith you are. For some, it is Saturday, for others it is Sunday, and for others still it is Friday.

That, in addition to the other poster above who pointed out that literally tens of millions of Christians have no problem working on Sundays, thus demonstrating it not to be a core belief of Christianity, pretty much clinches it.


hmmm, where does this come from?  "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy."

Literally tens of millions work?  Out of how many Christians?
 
2012-12-30 11:04:55 AM
Maybe she was a crap employee/or her boss was an ahole otherwise and switching her schedule around was a means to oust her.
 
2012-12-30 11:06:56 AM

Fart_Machine: To be fair at least according to her claim she did #2.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-30 11:07:43 AM

Relatively Obscure: I'm pretty sure anyone can refuse to work any time.


In a free country, you have the right to not work at all. You just don't have the right to a paycheck.
 
2012-12-30 11:08:14 AM

Bermuda59: Not work on Sundays? That explains the Jacksonville Jaguars

Pittsburgh Steelers.

/FTFY
 
2012-12-30 11:08:29 AM

Peki: Looks like I might be the only one, but I do have a problem with this. As long as reasonable accommodations can be made, and according TFA, they could, the woman should be allowed to work. What bugs me is that I've been noticing more and more that employers are going after people like this "just because." If you require some kind of special treatment, either due to your religion or health or something else, it seems that employers specifically will target and ignore your requests just to force you to go around them, and then they have justification to write you up. I cant tell you how many times I heard of students getting shifts when they have class, or parents scheduled beyond when their kids gt home from school, even though in the past there was never a problem and the employer had ample notice and was willing to make allowances.


It's down right dickish but it's not illegal to not accomodate to their schedule.

She didn't even get fired, she decided to quit AND THEN sue her former employer. Just read the rest of the idiocy involved in this case:


Campaigners said the ruling showed that Christians are being treated less favourably than people from other religions, such as Muslims, Jews and Sikhs. They pointed to cases where the courts offered protection to other religions even when only a minority of adherents were affected.

In 2008 Sarika Watkins-Singh, then 14, successfully claimed she was a victim of unlawful discrimination because she had been excluded from school in Aberdare, south Wales, for breaking a jewellery ban by refusing to remove a "kara" bangle which she said was central to her faith.

But in her case the court did not examine how many Sikhs wanted to wear similar items of jewellery.

The judgment in Miss Mba's case will fuel concerns that judges are promoting secularism. A report from the cross-party Christians in Parliament group warned earlier this year that there was a lack of religious literacy among judges, politicians and officials.

Andrea Williams, director of Christian Concern, said of the latest ruling: "The court in this case created an unrealistic test which means that people like Celestina who wish to respect the Sabbath will be forced out of the workplace.

"The court seems to be requiring a significant number of adherents of the Christian faith to observe a particular practice before the court is willing to accept and protect the practice.

"In the past year we have seen mandatory tests of faith in relation to the wearing of crosses by Christians, belief about marriage between a man and a woman and now observing the Sabbath when in all cases reasonable accommodation could have been made.

"Such tests do not appear to be similarly applied to Muslims who are permitted to wear the hijab and observe prayers and Sikhs with the kara bracelet."


Or to sum it up in graphical form:

cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2012-12-30 11:09:34 AM

jaytkay: Fart_Machine: To be fair at least according to her claim she did #2.

Oh I see you're one of those read-the-article fact-finding smartypants types :-)


/hangs head in shame.
 
2012-12-30 11:09:42 AM

Somacandra: Bermuda59: Not work on Sundays? That explains the Jacksonville Jaguars Pittsburgh Steelers.

/FTFY


Too soon.
 
2012-12-30 11:11:05 AM
So will Jews get the same treatment if they ask off for Rosh Hashanah? Just wondering b/c if we keep religion out of the workplace, let's keep all of them. My Jewish friends hate that view, but it is what it is.
 
2012-12-30 11:11:23 AM
In 1994, when Sunday trading in England was liberalised shopworkers were given a guarantee that working would be strictly voluntary, but the guarantee did not apply to people in other sectors.

The Employment Equality (Religion or Belief) Regulations, published in 2003, say employers must justify Sunday working as a "legitimate business need" and does not give a blanket right to Christians not to work.


I think running a care home is a pretty good reason to give when scheduling people to work on Sundays.
 
2012-12-30 11:11:27 AM

JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.


Oh look, another person who knows nothing about religion.
 
2012-12-30 11:12:57 AM
Get your panties of of their bunches, guys; it's an English ruling. FTFA:

The 57 year-old, from Streatham Vale, south London, worships every Sunday at her Baptist church, where she is also part of the ministry team offering pastoral care and support to the congregation. The 57 year-old, from Streatham Vale, south London, worships every Sunday at her Baptist church, where she is also part of the ministry team offering pastoral care and support to the congregation.

They don't have that church-state separation we do.
 
2012-12-30 11:13:55 AM
The Pope works on Sunday and Christmas and even Easter.
 
2012-12-30 11:14:59 AM

Asa Phelps: The well-off don't have to have a shiat job that requires weekend work.


I want you to repeat that the next time you need to see an ER doctor on a Sunday.
 
2012-12-30 11:16:07 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, I'm sure he had to get coffee and read his email... maybe scan the main page of Fark

/no one likes to just jump into it first thing


Here is video of the event....
 
2012-12-30 11:17:10 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: Contrary to popular belief, The Sabbath is actually on Saturday. You know, the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

Oh look, another person who knows nothing about religion.


Considering that the Jewish faith was around long before the Christian faith...yeah, the Sabbath is actually Saturday dumbass.
 
2012-12-30 11:17:58 AM
Pastors work on Sundays. They should get that day off too.
 
2012-12-30 11:22:22 AM

friday13: Get your panties of of their bunches, guys; it's an English ruling.


That doesn't stop Christians in the United States from crying about being persecuted.
 
2012-12-30 11:23:20 AM

zenobia: Tamater: While this makes me happy that religidiots got rejected in this case, things like this make me rage so hard.

No, your religion's retarded notions do not have to be catered to by the rest of society.

Yes, you do have to remove your burka covering your face to buy booze.

Yes, you do have to take off your turban in the Legion.

No, your religion does not give you the right to force it on your employees.

Ohmygoddammitsomuch

Those are sensible rules. The problem comes when employers pick out other rules to specifically discriminate against a group of people. Or when a person in that group picks out a rule that gets him preferential treatment. Balance is the hard part, especially because there are asshats on both sides.

/this is why we can't have nice things


The only sensible "balance" is having all religious "rules" have no effect or impact on interactions involving anyone not in complete agreement with those particular "rules". Ie., anyone else in public.

No religious rules should be respected or catered to by anyone outside of said religion.

Especially not in a workplace.
 
2012-12-30 11:24:11 AM
Hey, if the Free Market says it needs people to work Sundays, then the Free Market needs people to work Sundays.

Supply-side Jesus would approve.
 
2012-12-30 11:25:05 AM
As a Christian I hate working on sundays but being in the retail/service industry it is what I must do having accepted the job on those terms. What really bugs me is my fellow Christians who tell me to tell my boss I can't work on sundays or that they would never work on sundays but then they go and shop on sundays. Excuse me idiot if you Mr/Ms holier than thou Christina would stop shopping on sundays a lot of companies would not open on that day.

i've recently moved to a small town where a lot of local stores/shops are closed on Sunday and heck even early on Saturdays but of course not the chains or the places to eat. I swear I want to smack everyone at church for going out to lunch right after church which causes those folks to have to work on Sunday to feed the "church people".

I do feel that Christians should be able to take off on Christmas, Good Friday (evening) and Easter without issues as these are considered the major days for us.

I love BHphoto.com they shut down ordering for their Sabbath and every jewish holy holiday. they put into practice their faith.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-30 11:26:17 AM

Malacon: Hey, if the Free Market says it needs people to work Sundays, then the Free Market needs people to work Sundays.

Supply-side Jesus would approve.


Yup... it's amazing how fast a Christian rule flies out the window when it conflicts with a corporate want.
 
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