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(Eye on Annapolis)   Pizza Hut demotes driver for having the audacity to defend himself when he was being attacked   (eyeonannapolis.net) divider line 86
    More: Stupid, Pizza Hut, Glen Burnie, kitchen staff, Anne Arundel County, bus drivers, nye  
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13295 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Dec 2012 at 12:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-30 01:05:40 PM
4 votes:
This is why anybody delivering pizza should carry one of these:

images.knifecenter.com

/"We don't allow weapons for our drivers."
//"No problem. I only bring a flashlight with me on my deliveries."
2012-12-30 01:04:10 PM
3 votes:
Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens and he defended himself with a part of a tent pole that was in his car.

The Deliverator never pulled that gun in anger, or in fear. He pulled it once in Gila Highlands. Some punks in Gila Highlands, a fancy Burbclave, wanted themselves a delivery, and they didn't want to pay for it. Thought they would impress the Deliverator with a baseball bat. The Deliverator took out his gun, centered its laser doohickey on that poised Louisville Slugger, fired it. The recoil was immense, as though the weapon had blown up in his hand. The middle third of the baseball bat turned into a column of burning sawdust accelerating in all directions like a bursting star. Punk ended up holding this bat handle with milky smoke pouring out the end. Stupid look on his face. Didn't get nothing but trouble from the Deliverator.

Since then the Deliverator has kept the gun in the glove compartment and relied, instead, on a part of a tent pole, which had always been his weapon of choice anyhow. The punks in Gila Highlands weren't afraid of the gun, so the Deliverator was forced to use it. But partially assembled tents need no demonstrations.
2012-12-30 12:49:56 PM
3 votes:
At least it wasn't late... You do NOT want to upset Uncle Enzo...
2012-12-31 03:18:07 AM
2 votes:
Too bad he didn't slam one of the attackers' hands in the car door. Not that it would have helped the situation, but it would have been interesting to see people do mental gymnastics about whether delivery drivers should be able to use cars to deliver since the car itself could be used as a weapon.
2012-12-30 03:22:25 PM
2 votes:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: I assume he was using his own car to make deliveries? So if the attackers demanded his keys, would Pizza Hut buy him a new car?

No? Then they don't have a leg to stand on. You can't make "let other people take your stuff" a part of your business policy. How hard is it for management to just act like human beings?


Very good point. I find it funny how the people who work in security-laden environments away from the dangers of the streets (and reality itself) and who live in homes with elaborate security systems, watch dogs, and probably firearms are always the ones who are so willing to impose rules on others keeping them from defending themselves.... "I may protect myself and my property... but you may not... peasant"....
2012-12-30 02:48:22 PM
2 votes:

I Browse: Amos Quito: "Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens... "

"Teens", you say?

If you were writing the story, what word would you use to describe them?



Everyone knows that the word "teens" (in the context of such an article) is a "code word" that almost always refers to strawberry blonde adolescent girls wearing My Little Pony sweat shirts and listening to Justin Bieber on their MP3 players.

Why not just come out and say so?
2012-12-30 01:35:43 PM
2 votes:
Why do you people give your money to Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and KFC!!
Yeah, it's cheaper sometimes, but there are better alternatives out there that don't cost much more.

I'd rather pay $12 for an awesome pizza from my local mom & pop, or even $1 per taco at the (real) Mexican place.
Maybe it's just where I live, the local KFC shut down.
There's a local place that has wings that will make you orgasm. And I don't even particularly like wings.
2012-12-30 01:24:51 PM
2 votes:

dr-shotgun: Agent Smiths Laugh: dr-shotgun: elffster: dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.

Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.

Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.

I wold have been happy with:

"Didn't get nothing but trouble from The Swincegood"
[farm9.staticflickr.com image 430x350]

Oh come on. Uncle Enzo would never fire a Deliverator for roughing up a couple of punks with a stick. Wouldn't even cross his neurons...


We weren't talking about the relevance of the reference in some hypothetical situation. Your complaint was a lack of Snow Crash references. Someone pointed out that you overlooked one.

Whether or not it was a perfectly contextual reference was never the issue.

However, it occurs to me that if you are indicating that you did not miss the reference, but simply dismissed it as being inadequate, that perhaps you're really attempting to cover for having actually missed the reference.
2012-12-30 01:09:53 PM
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.



Actually, you're wrong. It wasn't a weapon per se, it was an improvised weapon. Basically it sounds like he was surrounded by a group of thugs and so he grabbed the biggest piece of flotsam he had within arm's reach in his car and used it to defend himself in the face of overwhelming numbers (five dudes).

It's a dumb rule to begin with, insisting that their drivers who carry cash and can be summoned to any location within minutes via a simple phone call, be helpless and unable to defend themselves. But if that rule is stretched to mean that they cannot defend themselves at ALL, even in the face of five dudes when they picked something up they essentially find on the ground, then it seems like it's nothing but pure greedy madness. A dubious attempt to shield the parent company from liability while actively putting lives at risk. Pizza drivers do get killed or seriously assaulted on a more regular basis then we'd like to think.

Pizza Hut was actually my first job when I was a kid, and when I got old enough to do deliveries I moved up to driver. All of us drivers were armed to the hilt. In the town I worked some delivery drivers had been beaten and robbed, and one guy was murdered, within recent memory. We all needed jobs, everyone had to eat and jobs in that part of Florida weren't exactly in overabundance, but none of us wanted to die for $50 and a pizza. When you un-arm yourself - or force someone else to be unarmed - you are putting that person's life in the hands of their attacker. You are asking the attacker to make the decision about what happens to the victim - does he die or live? Arming yourself helps to ensure that the decision of whether or not you'll ever see your family again remains in your own hands. Disarming someone you know has a decent chance of being put in a dangerous situation with an attacker is a deeply immoral act, IMHO.
2012-12-30 12:54:34 PM
2 votes:
www.wichitathunder.com
NOTICE:
Driver is unarmed, and carries cash
2012-12-30 12:49:32 PM
2 votes:
"Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens... "

"Teens", you say?
2012-12-30 12:48:29 PM
2 votes:
Demoted for "violating a company policy on carrying weapons".
A tent pole? Seriously?
What if he had used a snow brush/ice scraper? Would that be a prohibited weapon not allowed to be in cars of Pizza Hut delivery drivers?
2012-12-30 12:39:39 PM
2 votes:

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


Most retail jobs like that would rather you give up the money or product than anything else.
2012-12-30 12:39:22 PM
2 votes:
I am assuming they were Urban Youth. He committed a racist act and should be fired.
2012-12-30 12:36:58 PM
2 votes:

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?

Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.
2012-12-30 10:34:41 AM
2 votes:

DanZero: Is this really any different than any other corporate policy on the books telling employees not to "be a hero" when it comes to being robbed/stopping shoplifters? Major liabilities for them are abound if you try to stop them, and we've seen enough stories about people getting fired here for doing just that. It's an unfortunate situation, but people need to know the company is more than likely *not* to take their side in a situation like this.


We should change the law, then.

For a corporate chain? Hells yeah take everything insurance has got their back.

But for personal property or your person? There's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to shoot someone dead if they try to rob you personally or harm you in any way, regardless of if you are currently working or not. I'm not saying pizza guys should pack heat, but the passenger seat is called "shotgun" for a reason.
Pud [TotalFark]
2012-12-30 08:37:53 AM
2 votes:
What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?
2012-12-31 10:41:08 AM
1 votes:
The more I look at that picture.... he was expecting robbers with guns and that was his reaction? That seems like a pretty poor plan; and he's probably lucky. This just seems like it has potential for ending up much worse later...
It also mentions that he says he asked the manager to let him keep a "lower profile" as he was scared... and then on Pizza Hut's facebook:

Pizza Hut Dana, we have policies in place to best protect our drivers and team members across the country. Despite what has been reported, we never demoted or reduced the hours of this driver. While the investigation was ongoing and at his request, he was moved in restaurant. Temporarily. We will continue to handle the incident with the safety of everyone involved as priority No. 1. Thank you.

The kitchen staff do get paid less and the work sucks. That's why people are always fighting for the driver positions here. If he wanted out of driving, which is understandable, then he can't really expect to keep getting the same as he earned in tips. Perhaps it's better for everyone if he finds something else, and good luck to him in that. This doesn't seem to be quite as one sided as the initial article, as bad as it initially sounded. I think if they'd really wanted to deal with it harshly, he'd be fired - people lose those jobs at the drop of a hat. It sounds like they're probably trying to work with him, even though it isn't to his liking.
2012-12-31 01:38:00 AM
1 votes:

thaylin: Why you have been doing it the entire time


thaylin - please allow me the honor of putting this bluntly. You are a clueless idiot that only believes they are smart (or a phenomenal troll).

For anyone that agrees with me feel free to just quote it and say "this". And for anyone that disagree with me, feel free to quote it and say "I object"

Thaylin, by all means keep digging, it is hilarious to watch you make a fool of yourself and you don't even know it.
2012-12-30 09:14:41 PM
1 votes:

Jake Havechek: I was a pizza guy for 3 years. Rich people and teenagers are the worst tippers.

Plus the jerks who send their farking 5 year old to pay you so you have to count out the change to the last penny and give it to the little shiat.


I had someone do that to me, but he was hiding behind the door prompting the kid on how to properly pay for a pizza and give a tip. That was one of my favorite houses to deliver to.
2012-12-30 08:11:32 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: And for what purpose would you have them in your car, while at work?


Because I don't completely empty the car before each and every shift. Just stuff that happens to be in there.

You said:
"Tent poles are made up of many pieces tied together with bungie."

That is patently and demonstrably false.
2012-12-30 07:37:28 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: It was not a tent pole, it was a piece of a tent pole. Tent poles are made up of many pieces tied together with bungie. Since he had a peace it is safe to say it was broken. What reason is there to have a broken peice of a tent pole in the car other than as a weapon.


Um, no. Give me 45 seconds, and I can grab 'tent poles' that are not attached with bungie cords. They live in the shed, in the bag with the rest of the large tent.
Aluminum poles that fit together without benefit of bungies.

like these:
3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-12-30 06:38:25 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: Stop with the ad hominems, I fully believe int he rights to use them to defend myself, but if you use that right you have to be willing to accept the consquenses if it is againstYouPeopleAreCrazy: g wrench for defending myself if attacked by 5 persons?

your job to have that weapon in the first place, and for potentially putting the rest of your fellow workers in danager.


If, in deciphering this mashup, I am correct....
"I fully believe int he rights to use them to defend myself, but if you use that right you have to be willing to accept the consquenses if it is against your job to have that weapon in the first place, and for potentially putting the rest of your fellow workers in danager."

He had a stick in his car. A lightweight, hollow aluminum tube. He wasn't carrying a weapon...he had a tentpole in his car.
He wasn't carrying a weapon to defend himself, he grabbed what was at had to defend himself when 5 people attacked him.

In your view, any object that he happened to grab to defend himself from 5 attackers would be a classed as a 'weapon', and therefore would be in violation of corporate policy.
So....whatever you do, do not defend yourself with anything. A stick, a pen you used to stab the attacked in the temple, a rock...anything is a weapon, and you will be fired for holding that in your hand. Allow yourself to succumb to whatever the perps want to do.

Because, otherwise, you had 'a weapon' and we will fire you.
2012-12-30 06:32:32 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: liam76: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?

Don't play dumb.

Risking the life of the driver by saying as an employee they have no right to defend themselves because they are worried about lawsuits doesn't factor into a policy that keeps a thief from putting more people at risk.

I am not playing dumb, however you seem to be. No where in the article did it say he had no right to defend himself, that is a strawman. The policy is not there to prevent lawsuits from injuries to a thief, it is there to save the lives of the employees, so as to keep theft insurance low.

So you aren't playing dumb, you are dumb.

If he was demoted for actions he took defending himself, they are saying as an employee he has no right to self defense. Only a moron would think that policy protects employees(not resisting a robbery isn't the same as not resisting an attack). Only a moron would think your gun scenario was related. In that case the driver was in no position to defend them self and letting the thief in the store would only increase risk to the other employees and the thief.

Again with the strawman. They fired him for having a weapon in the car, not defending himself.


I am going to try one more time, I doubt it will work as I think you are not interested in being honest (because I doubt anyone is really this dumb).

Do you think if his boss saw a tent stake in his car he would have been fired? I think every sane, and above dog stool person intelligent person could agree the answer is no. If you still think the answer is somehow "yes" then do you think a manager would fire someone for having a wrench or a jack (equally as dangerous and found in about every car in the US). So unless drivers are made to remove those items a tent stake is ok.

Now I am sure you are going to argue that once he used it to defend himself it became a weapon. Using that argument he could be fired for punching his attackers, since once he did that his hands were weapons and he was driving around with weapons.

So dance around it all you like he wasn't demoted for "having a weapon" he was demoted for defending himself. If you can make the weapon argument about the stake you can make it about his hands. If you are going to argue that the stake alone was considered a weapon then PIzza Hut would have to demote every driver with a jack, tire iron, or wrench in their car.

thaylin: My senerio is to show you that not all policy is there for theft insurance, some is there to protect the people. The fact you cant reason that shows who the dumb one is


I never said "all policy is there for theft insurance".

I am pointing to this policy which punished him for defending himself.

Every policy they have is about making money. That is it.
2012-12-30 06:29:52 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: you are assuming this is a franchise, like they have no corporate stores...Even still the settlement will come out of the insurance policy.


If if it's owned by PEPSI/YUM they're deductibles are in the millions. It won't even rate at the policy level.

/Used to work on Pepsi GL/Auto/WC policies.
2012-12-30 06:15:51 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: liam76: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?

Don't play dumb.

Risking the life of the driver by saying as an employee they have no right to defend themselves because they are worried about lawsuits doesn't factor into a policy that keeps a thief from putting more people at risk.

I am not playing dumb, however you seem to be. No where in the article did it say he had no right to defend himself, that is a strawman. The policy is not there to prevent lawsuits from injuries to a thief, it is there to save the lives of the employees, so as to keep theft insurance low.


So you aren't playing dumb, you are dumb.

If he was demoted for actions he took defending himself, they are saying as an employee he has no right to self defense. Only a moron would think that policy protects employees(not resisting a robbery isn't the same as not resisting an attack). Only a moron would think your gun scenario was related. In that case the driver was in no position to defend them self and letting the thief in the store would only increase risk to the other employees and the thief.
2012-12-30 06:13:45 PM
1 votes:
You fully believe in gun rights, just not the right to use them (or anything other than your hands) or defend themselves. Now if that doesn't show some of the flaws in your logic, i will have to address you as Pointy Haired Boss.
2012-12-30 06:12:47 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: That is not guaranteed, however it is possible, however from your story they were letting him live UNTIL the saw the gun. The point is, as I have stated several times, that had he not had the gun there is a better chance then not that he would still be alive, just from your description of the events.


Not my description, but rather the newspaper article of the undercover cop getting killed. For trying to prevent a string of armed robberies.

Back to the original issue:
Right now, I have a lug wrench in the cab of my truck. Should I be fired for 'carrying a weapon'? As this guy seems to have been fired for.
Should I be fired for using that lug wrench for defending myself if attacked by 5 persons?
2012-12-30 06:02:27 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: If the driver was killed the family would make the claim for Yum!


No, it would be to the franchisee's LLC (or other corporate arrangement). They could try to file and Employment Practices lawsuit against them and YUM but usually all you get is some spare change in a settlement that doesn't even raise anyone's pulse at corporate.
2012-12-30 06:01:51 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.


was the delivery driver charged with assault? You are probably the same winey person that calls the cops when they see a person carrying a gun on their hip. Where they doing anything wrong? OMG call the cops.

Your logic is non-existant.  I wish fark could highlight in pink. Unfortunately yellow will have to work for you.
2012-12-30 05:58:54 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: If he used it as a weapon then yes.. If he had not used it as a weapon then it wasn't a weapon.


So if he used the hot bag to shield himself from the attackers, he should be fired for holding something that his employer required him to carry?
2012-12-30 05:57:21 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: The policy is not there to prevent lawsuits from injuries to a thief, it is there to save the lives of the employees, so as to keep theft insurance low.


YUM franchisees wouldn't even bother at that level to make a theft claim. Even on low end commercial policies the deductible for theft is usually at least $250-$500 so people won't report their register/driver getting knocked off but can stll get something if their safe is hit.
2012-12-30 05:44:45 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: No one said he had to accept a beating, just that he is not allowed to have a weapon stick him is car, or resist a robbery getting beaten.


Show us, in the linked article, where the word 'robbery' appears. I see 'attacked' and 'defend'. But not robbery.
2012-12-30 05:42:11 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: But they were allowing him to live.. That is the point, it was not a murder until they saw he was carrying a gun of his own. If he did not have it there would have been a good chance of him living...... How do you keep glossing over that...


I'm not glossing over that. I am saying that it was already an armed robbery, in a local string of armed robberies of pizza delivery drivers.
I'm not sure what your point is in relation to the overall discussion. During armed robberies, people have been shot, whether or not they had a weapon on them. Just because the armed robbers were idiots.
2012-12-30 05:31:44 PM
1 votes:
Don't know if it's been covered, but TFA doesn't even say they were robbing him. If they just attacked him, which there's a very good chance of being true since it was 5 teens and that's the kind of thing 5 teens would do, couldn't Pizza Hut be sued by the driver?

Telling someone they have to accept a beating is in no way legal.
2012-12-30 05:17:18 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: That is funny. Reread your statement


Funny? Reread?
I read it. I used to work for that chain.

The perps had the gun. It was an armed robbery to begin with, before they saw the gun.

So are you proposing that delivery drivers carry open, with a big sign on the car: "I HAVE A GUN. DO NOT TRY TO ROB ME".

/being young and dumb, they would try it anyway, just to steal the gun as well as the pizza+cash
2012-12-30 04:59:23 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?


What are they paying you for this?
2012-12-30 04:48:34 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s

You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.

By that logic, the only solution is to kill the robber, thus ensuring no further escalation. A policy I wouldn't disagree with.

Not true in the least. The reason for the policy is not for that individual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons then ALL robberies would likely use guns and/or deadly force.


BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.
2012-12-30 04:44:13 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: lewismarktwo: idual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons th

But if you were wanting to rob a pizza driver and did not have easy access to a gun you would probably not use a gun, but if you knew they were packing, then you would ensure you were packing.


Or you would rob someones house while they were at work instead.
2012-12-30 04:36:27 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: ....

Not true in the least. The reason for the policy is not for that individual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons then ALL robberies would likely use guns and/or deadly force.


If you're going to rob a pizza driver and have access to a gun you would use the gun anyway. This is about keeping Pizza Hut's insurance low, not about the safety of the driver.
2012-12-30 04:03:30 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: No subby, he was demoted for carrying a weapon.


Well pretty much any old thing can be a weapon if employed properly. Heck, they can charge you with posession of bomb making materials if you have clorox.

/This guy didn't seem to be protecting the pizza or the money, but is Pizza Hut going to buy him a new car or pay for his injuries? Maybe they'd have to pay for health treatment, but I don't think they'd pay for car repairs.
2012-12-30 03:34:03 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: breaking cooperate policy... 2 deliveries max is also corporate policy)


"Now, I'm not telling you to break policy (or break the speed limit), I'm just saying that you're taking too long coming back to the shop after every 2 deliveries... customer service... speedy delivery... so do more deliveries faster, or you're fired."

Seriously- haven't you ever been in a job where you were expected (although it was never actually said) to break the rules?? Yeah, you're not supposed to work on your break... but if a customer complains you didn't help them, you'll be written up, regardless. yeah, you are supposed to get,/i> a break, but we're busy today.... And so on. And, standing up for yourself gets you on the trouble-makers list, and possibly fired.
2012-12-30 03:28:22 PM
1 votes:

No Time To Explain: This reminds me of that lifeguard bullshiat story

/my money is on that they would have fired him for giving the 'za and the cash away if that was the path he so choose


They would have.

Pizza Hut and Dominos have a strict $20 limit on the cash a driver can carry. However, they are supposed to have $20 in order to make proper change. If the driver lost more than $20, he would've been fired. And odds are he would've lost more than $20, because - despite there being drop boxes for each driver - since you have to carry $20, odds are you have to go to a manager and have him write out a receipt to document the transaction to split a 5 or 10 dollar bill.

But the managers are busy. The managers are making pizzas. And if you wait for a manager, you'll miss your pizza, and you will be fired.
2012-12-30 03:14:36 PM
1 votes:

Lidocaine: I have seen a lot of cases in the news where groups of teens black youth go around various towns picking out victims white and Asian folks and beating them up for shiats and giggles.... in some cases injuring them quite badly even killing them.


FTFY

It's happening all over the country even though the media is twisting itself into pretzels to ignore it.
2012-12-30 03:13:19 PM
1 votes:
I assume he was using his own car to make deliveries? So if the attackers demanded his keys, would Pizza Hut buy him a new car?

No? Then they don't have a leg to stand on. You can't make "let other people take your stuff" a part of your business policy. How hard is it for management to just act like human beings?
2012-12-30 03:09:09 PM
1 votes:
I have seen a lot of cases in the news where groups of teens go around various towns picking out victims and beating them up for shiats and giggles.... in some cases injuring them quite badly. I guess I can understand the company policy about not fighting people over small amounts of company money or property. However, I do have a problem with a company policy that prevents lone employees (as delivery drivers are) from effectively defending themselves from an assault where they face large groups of assailants who could potentially hurt or kill them.

Basically, if some random dude runs up and grabs the pizza box and tries to run, let them keep the stupid pizza. However, if 5 dudes run up and try to assault you and rob you and you feel they are posing a threat to your personal safety, you should be able to defend yourself without facing the loss of your job and / or wages...
2012-12-30 02:54:25 PM
1 votes:
- Twelve-gauge. You need shells?
- Yeah, double-ought.


- Yeah, that'll give you a wallop.
- Y'all got camping supplies?


Tent poles. You already have the tent?


Well, something like that.


Give me the model number on the tent,
I can order poles.


- Never mind. I want a tent.
- What kind?


The kind with most poles.
2012-12-30 02:28:07 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: When do you ever need more then 20 on you? They dont accept 100s unless the bill is 80 or greater, or 50s unless 30 or greater, so you never need more then 20 on you.


And then the customer calls up and biatches that you wouldn't give them their pizza simply because they had a large bill. And the manager caves and gives them their food free. And tells you it's coming out of your salary- next time just take the $100 bill. Oh, and it's your ass if it turns out to be fake.

Not to mention there's the possibility of delivering two or more orders per trip, thus possibly needing $20 X [number or orders].
2012-12-30 02:21:10 PM
1 votes:
Can he hire armed guards, as the execs would do?
2012-12-30 02:15:20 PM
1 votes:
I don't think some people know what a tent pole is.
2012-12-30 02:10:02 PM
1 votes:

silverjets: Fark it.

I'd drop the pizzas and the money on the ground and walk away. Let the robbers have it. Pizza Hut's products and their money is not worth my life.


THIS
Let the police do the dirty work (i.e., follow the trail of diarrhea back to the perps)
2012-12-30 02:04:24 PM
1 votes:
If you don't mindlessly rules like this, especially when it's a high profile case, it sends a signal that thinking is tolerated.
2012-12-30 02:02:00 PM
1 votes:

YouPeopleAreCrazy: The My Little Pony Killer: You're so close, yet still so far away. You must be doing this on purpose. You're good.

FTA:
"Sam was demoted for violating a company policy on carrying weapons."

He wasn't carrying a weapon, he was carrying a tentpole in the car. He used the pole as a weapon to defend himself when attacked. But that was (apparently) not the intended purpose of the tentpole being in the car.

Under your reasoning, any item would be a "weapon" if I used it to defend myself, no matter why it was in the car. So I guess the only option is to let them beat my ass.
No thanks.


The only reason the tent pole was in the car was to be used as a weapon, unless of course he had the rest of the tent there.

So yes, he was carrying a weapon with him.

The option was to give up the pizzas and the money.  That is what the company wants you to do.
2012-12-30 01:43:11 PM
1 votes:

ima turkey: Papa Johns is better anyway. No more of my money to Pizza Hut, KFC, Taco Bell.


same policy as pizza hut.
2012-12-30 01:39:46 PM
1 votes:
Papa Johns is better anyway. No more of my money to Pizza Hut, KFC, Taco Bell.
2012-12-30 01:34:59 PM
1 votes:

stuffy: He had a tent pole.


That he was carrying around for the purpose of ...?

/it's a stupid farking rule
//but it's still their rule and he broke it
2012-12-30 01:32:41 PM
1 votes:

dr-shotgun: Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.


Seriously? You're going to go with that? Uncle Enzo is oblique?

Next time, try "Oh, yeah, I missed it. Oops."
2012-12-30 01:32:22 PM
1 votes:

spawn73: cherryl taggart: spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

The backseat of my car is the repository of all things kid-related. If my kid was super active in scouting, I would probably be able to find most of the parts of a tent back there. And if, I drive up to an intersection and an incident of attempted thuggery were to occur, I most definitely would be able to improvise a weapon out of the debris in my car. And my standard response to any question is "I panicked, because I was in fear of my life. I didn't know that a (insert noun here) could do that much damage to a person."

I'm not from USA, so not too familiar with Pizza Hut.

I thought they drove around in a Pizza Hut car? If it's their own car, then yes it seems plausible that there's a lot of stuff there that could be used as a weapon, even though it wasn't why it was placed there.

That explanation sounds plausible, because if you're going to drive around with a weapon, you would probably do better than a tentpole.


They drive their own cars with movable signs attached to the top of the car.
2012-12-30 01:26:00 PM
1 votes:

spawn73: People end up dead if they start a fight, especially if it's with a tent pole.


"Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens and he defended himself with a part of a tent pole "

Seems to me the other guys 'started' the fight.
2012-12-30 01:21:30 PM
1 votes:

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Actually, when you think about it, when was the last time you heard of anyone getting demoted in anything? Even in the military, on the rare occasions it happens, it's really just shorthand for "please accept this greatly reduced pay while we do the paperwork on throwing your loser/criminal ass out of the Army."

Work in general would probably be a lot more fulfilling if it were possible to try and fail at the next job up the ladder, or screw up without worrying about the only button on your boss's console being the big red one marked "FIRE." Oh well.
2012-12-30 01:17:30 PM
1 votes:
Fark it.

I'd drop the pizzas and the money on the ground and walk away. Let the robbers have it. Pizza Hut's products and their money is not worth my life.
2012-12-30 01:16:05 PM
1 votes:

thecactusman17: This is why anybody delivering pizza should carry one of these:


That looks like it takes 178 D-cells. I'm not sure your average pizza driver can afford one.
2012-12-30 01:13:43 PM
1 votes:

dr-shotgun: elffster: dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.

Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.

Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.

I wold have been happy with:

"Didn't get nothing but trouble from The Swincegood"

farm9.staticflickr.com
2012-12-30 01:09:26 PM
1 votes:

here to help: Well that's what he gets for being a slacker. If he had worked harder in life he wouldn't have had to deal with this. Don't blame Pizza Hut for standing by company policy.


www.patentspostgrant.com
2012-12-30 01:08:33 PM
1 votes:

stuffy: tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.

He had a tent pole. Not a Glock.


Baseball bat in my car - not a weapon
Baseball bat that I smack you with -- a weapon, even though it is not a Glock.

The tent pole was not called a weapon because of its mere existence in the universe. It was called a weapon because he used it as one.

Personally, I am torn here. Kudos to the guy for defending himself against 5 guys (although I do like their burgers). But I understand Pizza Hut's anxiety over big potential lawsuits.
2012-12-30 01:06:47 PM
1 votes:

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


They probably wanted him to let the attackers butt-rape him. That way he would get used to the same sort of treatment that he will receive working at pizza hut, kfc, etc.
2012-12-30 01:06:36 PM
1 votes:
I was a pizza guy for 3 years. Rich people and teenagers are the worst tippers.

Plus the jerks who send their farking 5 year old to pay you so you have to count out the change to the last penny and give it to the little shiat.
2012-12-30 01:05:14 PM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: "Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens... "

"Teens", you say?


Maybe in your neck of the woods, they're referred to as "yutes."
2012-12-30 01:04:56 PM
1 votes:

dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.


Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.
2012-12-30 01:04:28 PM
1 votes:

mr lawson: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that


Depends on the area.  I used to do pizza delivery in an faux upper-middle class area, where everyone thought they were rich and acted like they were rich, but didn't really have the money for it. Sort of a "keeping up with the Jones" kind of suburban area. They were the worst tippers I've ever seen.  I would usually make out with about $30-40 on a good Friday or Saturday night.  Once I transferred to another store in a lower-middle class area, my tip earnings skyrocketed.
2012-12-30 01:04:06 PM
1 votes:
Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.
2012-12-30 12:57:55 PM
1 votes:

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Hey, delivery driver is a good job for a pizza place compared to kitchen staff or wait staff. You're not farking around with dough or chopping vegetables or washing dishes. You're driving around in your car, listening to your music, without someone constantly supervising you. And you get tips.
2012-12-30 12:52:15 PM
1 votes:
google is a nice source.

/Also many a victim stupidly signs a confidentiality agreement to keep it out of the news cycle.
//Take 15 grand now or be forever in court to get pennies on the dollar.
2012-12-30 12:51:39 PM
1 votes:
The My Little Pony Killer:sheep snorter: People have even not been charged when defending themselves against the police attacking them without just cause(excessive force).


Even if there were just ONE TIME when this happened I'd like to see the source article on THAT.
2012-12-30 12:50:08 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.


Sure, if you call a tent pole a weapon. It was only a "weapon" because he was defending himself with it.
2012-12-30 12:47:48 PM
1 votes:

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Taster. It is Pizza Hut after all.
2012-12-30 12:47:42 PM
1 votes:
Wait he got demoted? Send a news crew.
2012-12-30 12:44:13 PM
1 votes:

spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).


Collapsible metal baton is the only way to go.
2012-12-30 12:41:34 PM
1 votes:
The PH facebook page posts "Rule 7 - never ever ever use a fork to eat chicken wings"

I suggested that never ever carry a fork when delivering pizzas.   It's not only ineffective against a knife, but you can get fired for it.
2012-12-30 12:41:34 PM
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes


Pecking order

/there's the delivery guy, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo
2012-12-30 12:40:17 PM
1 votes:

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).
2012-12-30 12:38:20 PM
1 votes:
This reminds me of that lifeguard bullshiat story

/my money is on that they would have fired him for giving the 'za and the cash away if that was the path he so choose
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-30 12:34:40 PM
1 votes:

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


Something that couldn't get them sued or make their insurance rates go up.
2012-12-30 10:58:36 AM
1 votes:
No subby, he was demoted for carrying a weapon.
2012-12-30 09:15:57 AM
1 votes:
Is this really any different than any other corporate policy on the books telling employees not to "be a hero" when it comes to being robbed/stopping shoplifters? Major liabilities for them are abound if you try to stop them, and we've seen enough stories about people getting fired here for doing just that. It's an unfortunate situation, but people need to know the company is more than likely *not* to take their side in a situation like this.
2012-12-30 07:46:35 AM
1 votes:
The managers just want him to hand over the money & not do anything but hope that the thugs don't hurt him. If he were to hurt one of them then they (the robbers) might sue Pizza Hut because of emotional distress or some such nonsense. If he (the driver) were to get hurt himself, well worker's comp may go up a bit but he'd be easy to replace.

Sadly it is a very common thought process. In addition to delivery drivers, many (most?) corporate owned gas stations/convenience stores will fire their clerks if they use any sort of weapon to defend themselves in a robbery. It rarely makes waves here on Fark just because it IS so common.
 
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