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(Eye on Annapolis)   Pizza Hut demotes driver for having the audacity to defend himself when he was being attacked   (eyeonannapolis.net) divider line 342
    More: Stupid, Pizza Hut, Glen Burnie, kitchen staff, Anne Arundel County, bus drivers, nye  
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13292 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Dec 2012 at 12:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-30 03:48:57 AM
So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?
 
2012-12-30 07:46:35 AM
The managers just want him to hand over the money & not do anything but hope that the thugs don't hurt him. If he were to hurt one of them then they (the robbers) might sue Pizza Hut because of emotional distress or some such nonsense. If he (the driver) were to get hurt himself, well worker's comp may go up a bit but he'd be easy to replace.

Sadly it is a very common thought process. In addition to delivery drivers, many (most?) corporate owned gas stations/convenience stores will fire their clerks if they use any sort of weapon to defend themselves in a robbery. It rarely makes waves here on Fark just because it IS so common.
 
Pud [TotalFark]
2012-12-30 08:37:53 AM
What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?
 
2012-12-30 09:12:33 AM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Anchovy can opener.
 
2012-12-30 09:15:57 AM
Is this really any different than any other corporate policy on the books telling employees not to "be a hero" when it comes to being robbed/stopping shoplifters? Major liabilities for them are abound if you try to stop them, and we've seen enough stories about people getting fired here for doing just that. It's an unfortunate situation, but people need to know the company is more than likely *not* to take their side in a situation like this.
 
2012-12-30 10:34:41 AM

DanZero: Is this really any different than any other corporate policy on the books telling employees not to "be a hero" when it comes to being robbed/stopping shoplifters? Major liabilities for them are abound if you try to stop them, and we've seen enough stories about people getting fired here for doing just that. It's an unfortunate situation, but people need to know the company is more than likely *not* to take their side in a situation like this.


We should change the law, then.

For a corporate chain? Hells yeah take everything insurance has got their back.

But for personal property or your person? There's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to shoot someone dead if they try to rob you personally or harm you in any way, regardless of if you are currently working or not. I'm not saying pizza guys should pack heat, but the passenger seat is called "shotgun" for a reason.
 
2012-12-30 10:38:57 AM
the corporate policy at the grocery store I work at is that you try to detain shoplifters until police arive unless they have a weapon, then you do everying thing you can to get them out of the store as quickly as possible with no injuries to workers or shoppers. Also amended a few years back to include not following robbers/shoplifters once they are out of the store because a manager got a kife to the gut trying to get a guy's license plate number
 
2012-12-30 10:47:43 AM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes
 
2012-12-30 10:58:36 AM
No subby, he was demoted for carrying a weapon.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-30 12:34:40 PM

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


Something that couldn't get them sued or make their insurance rates go up.
 
2012-12-30 12:36:58 PM

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?

Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.
 
2012-12-30 12:37:43 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes


Customer?

How much would it suck to have to actually eat that crap?
 
2012-12-30 12:38:20 PM
This reminds me of that lifeguard bullshiat story

/my money is on that they would have fired him for giving the 'za and the cash away if that was the path he so choose
 
2012-12-30 12:39:22 PM
I am assuming they were Urban Youth. He committed a racist act and should be fired.
 
2012-12-30 12:39:39 PM

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


Most retail jobs like that would rather you give up the money or product than anything else.
 
2012-12-30 12:39:52 PM
Clearly the answer is move to Florida.
 
2012-12-30 12:40:17 PM

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).
 
2012-12-30 12:41:29 PM
This is the company that fired me (and other drivers) right before reaching 200 Accident Free Hours driving. At the time, anyway, the 200 AFH mark was supposed to earn a raise. They couldn't have that, so....
 
2012-12-30 12:41:34 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes


Pecking order

/there's the delivery guy, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo
 
2012-12-30 12:41:34 PM
The PH facebook page posts "Rule 7 - never ever ever use a fork to eat chicken wings"

I suggested that never ever carry a fork when delivering pizzas.   It's not only ineffective against a knife, but you can get fired for it.
 
2012-12-30 12:44:13 PM

spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).


Collapsible metal baton is the only way to go.
 
2012-12-30 12:45:53 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Came for this.
 
2012-12-30 12:47:17 PM
Self defense is a Right. You are allowed to use the force necessary to stop the attack from continuing.

Women have murdered their rapist to stop the attack and most of them have gone free depending on whether the Judge likes rape or not.

People have even not been charged when defending themselves against the police attacking them without just cause(excessive force).

/Still not legal to go down to the U.S. congress and kick Boehner in the nutsack for his parties attack on people.

//Pizza dude could make a few grand due to the corporate policy of being killed in the name of policy. "Hey muggers, you can beat the shiat out of our employees and they will just stand there and take it like a good little sheeple".
 
2012-12-30 12:47:23 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes


If only there were a handy link to an article that would answer your question.
 
2012-12-30 12:47:42 PM
Wait he got demoted? Send a news crew.
 
2012-12-30 12:47:48 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Taster. It is Pizza Hut after all.
 
2012-12-30 12:47:54 PM
I used to carry a bat and glove when I was delivering. Never had to use it thankfully.

I did deliver to a Bee Gee and Kevin VonErick once. His wife was as hot as they come.
 
2012-12-30 12:48:05 PM

sheep snorter: People have even not been charged when defending themselves against the police attacking them without just cause(excessive force).


Source?
 
2012-12-30 12:48:29 PM
Demoted for "violating a company policy on carrying weapons".
A tent pole? Seriously?
What if he had used a snow brush/ice scraper? Would that be a prohibited weapon not allowed to be in cars of Pizza Hut delivery drivers?
 
2012-12-30 12:48:49 PM

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


This. "Demote" a pizza driver?
 
2012-12-30 12:49:08 PM
And the five teens? Are they OK?
 
2012-12-30 12:49:23 PM

titwrench: spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

Collapsible metal baton is the only way to go.


I'm in the sca and regularly have a shield or rattan stick lying in the backseat our trunk

/lucky for many people that I've yet to get road rage
//unlucky for the idiot who will give me a reason to use it defensively
 
2012-12-30 12:49:32 PM
"Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens... "

"Teens", you say?
 
2012-12-30 12:49:40 PM

Recoil Therapy: The managers just want him to hand over the money & not do anything but hope that the thugs don't hurt him. If he were to hurt one of them then they (the robbers) might sue Pizza Hut because of emotional distress or some such nonsense. If he (the driver) were to get hurt himself, well worker's comp may go up a bit but he'd be easy to replace.

Sadly it is a very common thought process. In addition to delivery drivers, many (most?) corporate owned gas stations/convenience stores will fire their clerks if they use any sort of weapon to defend themselves in a robbery. It rarely makes waves here on Fark just because it IS so common.


As for these draconian policies, all I have to say is this:

"Be a farking person!"
- Jon Stewart

Seriously, this guy was obviously scared for his farking life, and as opposed to helping him out, they kick him in the balls!  FU Pizza Hut, FU in the ass!  I would like to see what one of these corporate HR drones would do in that very situation (aside from piss themselves).  What do they expect him to do?  Lay back and take it?
 
2012-12-30 12:49:56 PM
At least it wasn't late... You do NOT want to upset Uncle Enzo...
 
2012-12-30 12:50:08 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.


Sure, if you call a tent pole a weapon. It was only a "weapon" because he was defending himself with it.
 
2012-12-30 12:51:39 PM
The My Little Pony Killer:sheep snorter: People have even not been charged when defending themselves against the police attacking them without just cause(excessive force).


Even if there were just ONE TIME when this happened I'd like to see the source article on THAT.
 
2012-12-30 12:52:15 PM
google is a nice source.

/Also many a victim stupidly signs a confidentiality agreement to keep it out of the news cycle.
//Take 15 grand now or be forever in court to get pennies on the dollar.
 
2012-12-30 12:53:04 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.


He had a tent pole. Not a Glock.
 
2012-12-30 12:53:24 PM
In the right situations, threatening cardboard cuts (way worse than paper cuts) from the boxes the pizza is in could make those boxes a weapon.

The point is, when someone is threatened, just about anything could be used as a weapon. Pizza Hut is idiotic in the way they're handling this. Demote him for standing up for himself instead of just handing over the money and pizza, don't demote him for picking the first random thing in his car and calling it a weapon. Because hell, by that loose definition I have hundreds of weapons in my car. The bad guys better watch out!
 
2012-12-30 12:53:36 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.


no where in either story I read talks about him keeping the tent pole as a weapon.
 
2012-12-30 12:53:44 PM

spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).


The backseat of my car is the repository of all things kid-related. If my kid was super active in scouting, I would probably be able to find most of the parts of a tent back there. And if, I drive up to an intersection and an incident of attempted thuggery were to occur, I most definitely would be able to improvise a weapon out of the debris in my car. And my standard response to any question is "I panicked, because I was in fear of my life. I didn't know that a (insert noun here) could do that much damage to a person."
 
2012-12-30 12:53:59 PM
Oh Pizza Hut. My husband worked there when we were very young. How do they consider a tent pole a weapon? Because he brandished it? So if he threw hot pizza at them, would that be a weapon too? Just handing over food and cash isn't always going to do it. We had a delivery driver hand over everything and they still knocked him down and kicked the crap out of him. I had pepper spray when I used to deliver for Little Ceasar's. No min wage job is worth that shiat.
 
2012-12-30 12:54:15 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that
 
2012-12-30 12:54:34 PM
www.wichitathunder.com
NOTICE:
Driver is unarmed, and carries cash
 
2012-12-30 12:57:46 PM

MrBallou: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Anchovy can opener.


Cheese boy.
 
2012-12-30 12:57:55 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Hey, delivery driver is a good job for a pizza place compared to kitchen staff or wait staff. You're not farking around with dough or chopping vegetables or washing dishes. You're driving around in your car, listening to your music, without someone constantly supervising you. And you get tips.
 
2012-12-30 12:59:28 PM

lmxloco: In the right situations, threatening cardboard cuts (way worse than paper cuts) from the boxes the pizza is in could make those boxes a weapon.

The point is, when someone is threatened, just about anything could be used as a weapon. Pizza Hut is idiotic in the way they're handling this. Demote him for standing up for himself instead of just handing over the money and pizza, don't demote him for picking the first random thing in his car and calling it a weapon. Because hell, by that loose definition I have hundreds of weapons in my car. The bad guys better watch out!


Yeah, you use any object to defend yourself, it's considered a weapon. You punch someone in the face, you get charged with assault. You punch them with your travel mug, it's assault with a weapon according to police.
 
2012-12-30 01:00:43 PM
Because, as everyone knows, the good of the corporation outweighs the good of the individual.

Interesting if you think about it. The corporation is legally a person. A person whose rights the laws and rules favor over the rights of the employee who is another person.

One person has more value than the other person.

Amazing what money can do.
 
2012-12-30 01:02:53 PM

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


"We expect you to DIE Mr. Swicegood!"
 
2012-12-30 01:03:20 PM

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


let the people attack him or something that doesn't involve being gay to a whole bunch of people
 
2012-12-30 01:04:06 PM
Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.
 
2012-12-30 01:04:10 PM
Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens and he defended himself with a part of a tent pole that was in his car.

The Deliverator never pulled that gun in anger, or in fear. He pulled it once in Gila Highlands. Some punks in Gila Highlands, a fancy Burbclave, wanted themselves a delivery, and they didn't want to pay for it. Thought they would impress the Deliverator with a baseball bat. The Deliverator took out his gun, centered its laser doohickey on that poised Louisville Slugger, fired it. The recoil was immense, as though the weapon had blown up in his hand. The middle third of the baseball bat turned into a column of burning sawdust accelerating in all directions like a bursting star. Punk ended up holding this bat handle with milky smoke pouring out the end. Stupid look on his face. Didn't get nothing but trouble from the Deliverator.

Since then the Deliverator has kept the gun in the glove compartment and relied, instead, on a part of a tent pole, which had always been his weapon of choice anyhow. The punks in Gila Highlands weren't afraid of the gun, so the Deliverator was forced to use it. But partially assembled tents need no demonstrations.
 
2012-12-30 01:04:28 PM

mr lawson: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that


Depends on the area.  I used to do pizza delivery in an faux upper-middle class area, where everyone thought they were rich and acted like they were rich, but didn't really have the money for it. Sort of a "keeping up with the Jones" kind of suburban area. They were the worst tippers I've ever seen.  I would usually make out with about $30-40 on a good Friday or Saturday night.  Once I transferred to another store in a lower-middle class area, my tip earnings skyrocketed.
 
2012-12-30 01:04:52 PM

dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...


Four seconds. You couldn't wait four lousy seconds.
 
2012-12-30 01:04:56 PM

dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.


Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.
 
2012-12-30 01:05:12 PM

DanZero: Is this really any different than any other corporate policy on the books telling employees not to "be a hero" when it comes to being robbed/stopping shoplifters?


He was 'demoted' for carrying a weapon in the car.
"... Sam was demoted for violating a company policy on carrying weapons."

A tent pole that happened to be in his car.
 
2012-12-30 01:05:14 PM

Amos Quito: "Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens... "

"Teens", you say?


Maybe in your neck of the woods, they're referred to as "yutes."
 
2012-12-30 01:05:15 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Probably coordinating deliveries (grouping orders for delivery by neighborhood, 4 pizzas per driver at a time) and handling the drivers' cash register (they have a separate register in the back for the delivery cash-handling). The "demotion" part is that you're not out there getting tips -- but you're also not out there burning up your own gas and oil -- or attacked by punks.

Recoil Therapy said it best in the 2nd post. Drivers are not supposed to fight back because it's cheaper for Pizza Hut to replace a dead driver than it is to deal with a lawsuit from a litigious punk who gets "traumatized" when a driver fights back.

/Delivered for the Hut briefly back in the early 90s. Had a damn good manager, though.
 
2012-12-30 01:05:21 PM
What would be his family's compensation, from Pizza Hut, for the loss of his life?
 
2012-12-30 01:05:21 PM

Recoil Therapy: The managers just want him to hand over the money & not do anything but hope that the thugs don't hurt him. If he were to hurt one of them then they (the robbers) might sue Pizza Hut because of emotional distress or some such nonsense. If he (the driver) were to get hurt himself, well worker's comp may go up a bit but he'd be easy to replace.


Not exactly. The whole notion of "Don't Be a Hero" is because big chains don't care (or file claims for such things as one store getting a register knocked over) and big and small stores alike are in no mood to get hit for a potential death claim on their work comp policies. Small companies don't want a hit to their experience mod and big businesses usually keep deductibles high enough that they'll be on the hook for the brunt of the claim.

/And death claims can start at a $250K in a good many states.
 
2012-12-30 01:05:38 PM
Well that's what he gets for being a slacker. If he had worked harder in life he wouldn't have had to deal with this. Don't blame Pizza Hut for standing by company policy.
 
2012-12-30 01:05:40 PM
This is why anybody delivering pizza should carry one of these:

images.knifecenter.com

/"We don't allow weapons for our drivers."
//"No problem. I only bring a flashlight with me on my deliveries."
 
2012-12-30 01:05:43 PM
Oh good, more gun free zones. This should end well.
 
2012-12-30 01:06:36 PM
I was a pizza guy for 3 years. Rich people and teenagers are the worst tippers.

Plus the jerks who send their farking 5 year old to pay you so you have to count out the change to the last penny and give it to the little shiat.
 
2012-12-30 01:06:47 PM

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?


They probably wanted him to let the attackers butt-rape him. That way he would get used to the same sort of treatment that he will receive working at pizza hut, kfc, etc.
 
2012-12-30 01:07:05 PM

RickN99: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes

If only there were a handy link to an article that would answer your question.


I'm guessing that the only thing lower than Pizza Delivery Boy is Planet Express Delivery Boy. Only you do get to defend yourself in the latter position, except for shooting customers.
 
2012-12-30 01:07:28 PM

elffster: dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.

Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.


Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.

I wold have been happy with:

"Didn't get nothing but trouble from The Swincegood"
 
2012-12-30 01:07:33 PM
I guess you could say the protagonist was trying to be a...hiro?
 
2012-12-30 01:08:33 PM

stuffy: tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.

He had a tent pole. Not a Glock.


Baseball bat in my car - not a weapon
Baseball bat that I smack you with -- a weapon, even though it is not a Glock.

The tent pole was not called a weapon because of its mere existence in the universe. It was called a weapon because he used it as one.

Personally, I am torn here. Kudos to the guy for defending himself against 5 guys (although I do like their burgers). But I understand Pizza Hut's anxiety over big potential lawsuits.
 
2012-12-30 01:09:26 PM

here to help: Well that's what he gets for being a slacker. If he had worked harder in life he wouldn't have had to deal with this. Don't blame Pizza Hut for standing by company policy.


www.patentspostgrant.com
 
2012-12-30 01:09:46 PM
When I delivered for Hungry Howie's, damn right use drivers all carried knives, and I even had a can of mace on me. We all knew it against the rules, but the managers were okay with it, especially since we had to deliver to a couple of urban demographic areas.

/closest I got to macing was a drunk male prostitute who wouldn't let me leave until I gave him my number
//I'm a dude
 
2012-12-30 01:09:53 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.



Actually, you're wrong. It wasn't a weapon per se, it was an improvised weapon. Basically it sounds like he was surrounded by a group of thugs and so he grabbed the biggest piece of flotsam he had within arm's reach in his car and used it to defend himself in the face of overwhelming numbers (five dudes).

It's a dumb rule to begin with, insisting that their drivers who carry cash and can be summoned to any location within minutes via a simple phone call, be helpless and unable to defend themselves. But if that rule is stretched to mean that they cannot defend themselves at ALL, even in the face of five dudes when they picked something up they essentially find on the ground, then it seems like it's nothing but pure greedy madness. A dubious attempt to shield the parent company from liability while actively putting lives at risk. Pizza drivers do get killed or seriously assaulted on a more regular basis then we'd like to think.

Pizza Hut was actually my first job when I was a kid, and when I got old enough to do deliveries I moved up to driver. All of us drivers were armed to the hilt. In the town I worked some delivery drivers had been beaten and robbed, and one guy was murdered, within recent memory. We all needed jobs, everyone had to eat and jobs in that part of Florida weren't exactly in overabundance, but none of us wanted to die for $50 and a pizza. When you un-arm yourself - or force someone else to be unarmed - you are putting that person's life in the hands of their attacker. You are asking the attacker to make the decision about what happens to the victim - does he die or live? Arming yourself helps to ensure that the decision of whether or not you'll ever see your family again remains in your own hands. Disarming someone you know has a decent chance of being put in a dangerous situation with an attacker is a deeply immoral act, IMHO.
 
2012-12-30 01:10:04 PM
You gotta wonder what damage control the Sr. Marketing, PR and HR teams are doing right this second.  Their Facebook page is getting blown up right now...
 
2012-12-30 01:10:15 PM

cherryl taggart: spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

The backseat of my car is the repository of all things kid-related. If my kid was super active in scouting, I would probably be able to find most of the parts of a tent back there. And if, I drive up to an intersection and an incident of attempted thuggery were to occur, I most definitely would be able to improvise a weapon out of the debris in my car. And my standard response to any question is "I panicked, because I was in fear of my life. I didn't know that a (insert noun here) could do that much damage to a person."


I'm not from USA, so not too familiar with Pizza Hut.

I thought they drove around in a Pizza Hut car? If it's their own car, then yes it seems plausible that there's a lot of stuff there that could be used as a weapon, even though it wasn't why it was placed there.

That explanation sounds plausible, because if you're going to drive around with a weapon, you would probably do better than a tentpole.
 
2012-12-30 01:10:32 PM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7509593/81573631#c81573631" target="_blank">tenpoundsofcheese</a>:</b> <i>No subby, he was demoted for carrying a weapon.</i>

I'm betting it was the fact that he fought back, and the "you were carrying a weapon" sounds better than having a company-wide policy of not defending yourself no matter what. When it comes down to it, anything is a weapon. Take off your belt. Now strangle somebody with it. Or drop a can of Coke in your sock and beat somebody viciously with it. Roll up a newspaper and slam the end of it into somebody's temple. I bet this guy was employee roadkill the minute he didn't capitulate.
 
2012-12-30 01:13:43 PM

dr-shotgun: elffster: dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.

Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.

Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.

I wold have been happy with:

"Didn't get nothing but trouble from The Swincegood"

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-30 01:16:05 PM

thecactusman17: This is why anybody delivering pizza should carry one of these:


That looks like it takes 178 D-cells. I'm not sure your average pizza driver can afford one.
 
2012-12-30 01:17:07 PM

WordyGrrl: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Probably coordinating deliveries (grouping orders for delivery by neighborhood, 4 pizzas per driver at a time) and handling the drivers' cash register (they have a separate register in the back for the delivery cash-handling). The "demotion" part is that you're not out there getting tips -- but you're also not out there burning up your own gas and oil -- or attacked by punks.

Recoil Therapy said it best in the 2nd post. Drivers are not supposed to fight back because it's cheaper for Pizza Hut to replace a dead driver than it is to deal with a lawsuit from a litigious punk who gets "traumatized" when a driver fights back.

/Delivered for the Hut briefly back in the early 90s. Had a damn good manager, though.


He said it, but it was stupid.

People end up dead if they start a fight, especially if it's with a tent pole.

People usually don't end up dead if they just comply with the people robbing them.
 
2012-12-30 01:17:30 PM
Fark it.

I'd drop the pizzas and the money on the ground and walk away. Let the robbers have it. Pizza Hut's products and their money is not worth my life.
 
2012-12-30 01:17:44 PM
I quit working for Papa Johns for similar reasons. Found a shop that had a driver shoot and kill his attacker and not get fired. I work for them now.

/deliver to Jack White once in a while. He's not very chatty though.
 
2012-12-30 01:18:24 PM
Maybe the big mistake was reporting it. "Hey boss, I went to 2311 Mugging Drive and there were some guys fighting so I got out of there." No need to mention to the boss or cops that you were one of them.
 
2012-12-30 01:18:46 PM

Jake Havechek: I was a pizza guy for 3 years. Rich people and teenagers are the worst tippers.


I was a mover for 3 years, and I can attest to this. Ironically, the rich are terrible tippers. Half the time, they don't even say "Thank you." The poor don't tip either, but it's hard to blame them. Middle-class folk are the best and most consistent tippers.

/Teenagers don't hire movers ... all their shiat in the world fits in the passenger seat.
 
2012-12-30 01:19:22 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: dr-shotgun: elffster: dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.

Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.

Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.

I wold have been happy with:

"Didn't get nothing but trouble from The Swincegood"
[farm9.staticflickr.com image 430x350]


Oh come on. Uncle Enzo would never fire a Deliverator for roughing up a couple of punks with a stick. Wouldn't even cross his neurons...
 
2012-12-30 01:21:05 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: Jake Havechek: I was a pizza guy for 3 years. Rich people and teenagers are the worst tippers.

I was a mover for 3 years, and I can attest to this. Ironically, the rich are terrible tippers. Half the time, they don't even say "Thank you."


That shouldn't be a surprise. The rich didn't get rich by giving away their money.


/Just sayin'
 
2012-12-30 01:21:18 PM
Pizza Hut is messed up with their delivery rules.  Basically, you need more than 20 dollars on you when you make deliveries in some cases....but if you get robbed and had more than 20 bucks on you, you can get fired because drivers aren't supposed to have more than 20 bucks on them.

I remember there was one place we delivered where a there had been 2 or 3 robberies AND then driver got stabbed (we had the inner city route). PH decided not to drop that location despite no tips/always dangerous but allowed the driver who got stabbed to always skip those so someone else had to take it.
 
2012-12-30 01:21:19 PM

silverjets: Pizza Hut's products and their money is not worth my life.


Corporate assets are not worth my life, even if they're valuable. I read a post here years ago that said "If a fire breaks out in the data center where I work, I'm supposed to activate a Halon fire suppression system that will save the equipment and kill me. fark that." Yep.
 
2012-12-30 01:21:30 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Actually, when you think about it, when was the last time you heard of anyone getting demoted in anything? Even in the military, on the rare occasions it happens, it's really just shorthand for "please accept this greatly reduced pay while we do the paperwork on throwing your loser/criminal ass out of the Army."

Work in general would probably be a lot more fulfilling if it were possible to try and fail at the next job up the ladder, or screw up without worrying about the only button on your boss's console being the big red one marked "FIRE." Oh well.
 
2012-12-30 01:21:45 PM

spawn73: cherryl taggart: spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

The backseat of my car is the repository of all things kid-related. If my kid was super active in scouting, I would probably be able to find most of the parts of a tent back there. And if, I drive up to an intersection and an incident of attempted thuggery were to occur, I most definitely would be able to improvise a weapon out of the debris in my car. And my standard response to any question is "I panicked, because I was in fear of my life. I didn't know that a (insert noun here) could do that much damage to a person."

I'm not from USA, so not too familiar with Pizza Hut.

I thought they drove around in a Pizza Hut car? If it's their own car, then yes it seems plausible that there's a lot of stuff there that could be used as a weapon, even though it wasn't why it was placed there.

That explanation sounds plausible, because if you're going to drive around with a weapon, you would probably do better than a tentpole.


They make you drive your own car and just slap a Pizza Hut sign on top. You have to provide your own gas, insurance, and maintenance. They used to give drivers one dollar per delivery to offset the cost (lol) and then you keep your meager tips and get min wage hourly pay.
 
2012-12-30 01:22:14 PM

Amos Quito: "Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens... "

"Teens", you say?


If you were writing the story, what word would you use to describe them?
 
2012-12-30 01:22:47 PM

spawn73: I'm not from USA, so not too familiar with Pizza Hut.

I thought they drove around in a Pizza Hut car? If it's their own car, then yes it seems plausible that there's a lot of stuff there that could be used as a weapon, even though it wasn't why it was placed there.


Drivers here (Pizza Hut and everyone else) use their own cars, usually with a sign on top.
Both places I've driven for in the long distant past (one small shop and one slightly larger regional) , I used my own vehicle.

Pizza delivery lives off parental car insurance rates. If a driver had to insure his car as a 'commercial vehicle', no one could afford it on what they make.
 
2012-12-30 01:22:50 PM

dr-shotgun: Agent Smiths Laugh: dr-shotgun: elffster: dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.

Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.

Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.

I wold have been happy with:

"Didn't get nothing but trouble from The Swincegood"
[farm9.staticflickr.com image 430x350]

Oh come on. Uncle Enzo would never fire a Deliverator for roughing up a couple of punks with a stick. Wouldn't even cross his neurons...



I tried to, but duty called in mid-reply. :(
 
2012-12-30 01:22:55 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Phone Operator, like i was at 14...
 
2012-12-30 01:24:20 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: sheep snorter: People have even not been charged when defending themselves against the police attacking them without just cause(excessive force).

Source?


Not that I sympathize with these guys...but these two brothers shot and killed a sheriff deputy, and were acquitted at trail. They also continue to taunt the police and the neighbors over it by posting photos of the dead sheriff on their property.
 
2012-12-30 01:24:51 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Pizza Hut Manager.
 
2012-12-30 01:24:51 PM

dr-shotgun: Agent Smiths Laugh: dr-shotgun: elffster: dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.

Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.

Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.

I wold have been happy with:

"Didn't get nothing but trouble from The Swincegood"
[farm9.staticflickr.com image 430x350]

Oh come on. Uncle Enzo would never fire a Deliverator for roughing up a couple of punks with a stick. Wouldn't even cross his neurons...


We weren't talking about the relevance of the reference in some hypothetical situation. Your complaint was a lack of Snow Crash references. Someone pointed out that you overlooked one.

Whether or not it was a perfectly contextual reference was never the issue.

However, it occurs to me that if you are indicating that you did not miss the reference, but simply dismissed it as being inadequate, that perhaps you're really attempting to cover for having actually missed the reference.
 
2012-12-30 01:25:18 PM
Corporate policy = "how many lights do you see?"
 
2012-12-30 01:26:00 PM

spawn73: People end up dead if they start a fight, especially if it's with a tent pole.


"Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens and he defended himself with a part of a tent pole "

Seems to me the other guys 'started' the fight.
 
2012-12-30 01:26:51 PM

Jake Havechek: I was a pizza guy for 3 years. Rich people and teenagers are the worst tippers.

Plus the jerks who send their farking 5 year old to pay you so you have to count out the change to the last penny and give it to the little shiat.


I used to have my niece pay when she was living with us as a wee kiddo, but I'd hand her the cash and tell her what change to ask for. Our local delivery guy thought she was hilarious when she'd say "keep the change!" in that proud little kid way. Probably helped that I also stood there with her. I was teaching her, not using her as an errand runner.

/I tip well
//my food is always hot and on time
///as are my slashies
 
2012-12-30 01:27:07 PM

mongbiohazard: Pizza drivers do get killed or seriously assaulted on a more regular basis then we'd like to think.


To be fair, they also get tips in the form of oral sex from attractive mature women who answer the door in a negligee more often than we think. Or so many a Fark thread would have me believe. I tried asking the kid who delivered MY pizza about it a few times, but now they have my number blocked for some reason.
 
2012-12-30 01:28:04 PM
THOSE DAMN YOUTHS!

YOUTHS!!!!
 
2012-12-30 01:28:19 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: silverjets: Pizza Hut's products and their money is not worth my life.

Corporate assets are not worth my life, even if they're valuable. I read a post here years ago that said "If a fire breaks out in the data center where I work, I'm supposed to activate a Halon fire suppression system that will save the equipment and kill me. fark that." Yep.


Someone was a moran. Halon is safe under 7% concentration, most places use 5%.
 
2012-12-30 01:28:55 PM

Ex-Texan: Corporate policy = "how many lights do you see?"


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-30 01:29:51 PM

silverjets: That shouldn't be a surprise. The rich didn't get rich by giving away their money.


I don't know...I see what you're saying, but at the same time the rich man I know best (founder and CEO of our company before we got acquired) got rich while being very, very good about spreading the wealth around in the form of great salaries, stock options & purchase plans ... etc.

Would it kill them to be decent human beings and at least say "thank you" when we've - oh, I don't know - moved the heirloom piano up three flights of spiral stairs in the brand-new house with nary a ding or scratch on the house or the piano? $5 a head on that job would have set them back ... a whopping $30. And all we got for it was (effectively) a GTFO.
 
2012-12-30 01:30:28 PM

MrBallou: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Anchovy can opener.


since it's pizza hut...he was demoted to having to eat their pizza.
 
2012-12-30 01:31:21 PM

DanZero: Is this really any different than any other corporate policy on the books telling employees not to "be a hero" when it comes to being robbed/stopping shoplifters? Major liabilities for them are abound if you try to stop them, and we've seen enough stories about people getting fired here for doing just that. It's an unfortunate situation, but people need to know the company is more than likely *not* to take their side in a situation like this.


Going on the article he was attacked. In that case it isn't defending company property he is defending himself. I am sure a good lawyer could come up with some rights of hit they violated for punishing himself for self defense.


sheep snorter: People have even not been charged when defending themselves against the police attacking them without just cause(excessive force).



Never heard of that, and have heard of people being charged for defending themsleves when police illegally attacked them/invaded their home.
 
2012-12-30 01:31:51 PM

brobinson2001: Halon is safe under 7% concentration, most places use 5%.


Interesting ... *strokes goatee*

I did not know that.
 
2012-12-30 01:32:04 PM

silverjets: Fuggin Bizzy: Jake Havechek: I was a pizza guy for 3 years. Rich people and teenagers are the worst tippers.

I was a mover for 3 years, and I can attest to this. Ironically, the rich are terrible tippers. Half the time, they don't even say "Thank you."

That shouldn't be a surprise. The rich didn't get rich by giving away their money.

/Just sayin'


There are people who look rich because they have so much financing going on. They are tightasses with all their money going to keeping up their lifestyle. Guys who own landscaping and fabricating businesses and such, they're the people who have all kinds of cash to throw around and have fun with. They don't usually look rich but they've got more money than the people with the huge house and the front yard that looks like it came out of a magazine.
 
2012-12-30 01:32:22 PM

spawn73: cherryl taggart: spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

The backseat of my car is the repository of all things kid-related. If my kid was super active in scouting, I would probably be able to find most of the parts of a tent back there. And if, I drive up to an intersection and an incident of attempted thuggery were to occur, I most definitely would be able to improvise a weapon out of the debris in my car. And my standard response to any question is "I panicked, because I was in fear of my life. I didn't know that a (insert noun here) could do that much damage to a person."

I'm not from USA, so not too familiar with Pizza Hut.

I thought they drove around in a Pizza Hut car? If it's their own car, then yes it seems plausible that there's a lot of stuff there that could be used as a weapon, even though it wasn't why it was placed there.

That explanation sounds plausible, because if you're going to drive around with a weapon, you would probably do better than a tentpole.


They drive their own cars with movable signs attached to the top of the car.
 
2012-12-30 01:32:41 PM

dr-shotgun: Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.


Seriously? You're going to go with that? Uncle Enzo is oblique?

Next time, try "Oh, yeah, I missed it. Oops."
 
2012-12-30 01:34:55 PM

liam76: Going on the article he was attacked. In that case it isn't defending company property he is defending himself. I am sure a good lawyer could come up with some rights of hit they violated for punishing himself for self defense.


The company's issue isn't with it's property being damaged, it's paying a work comp death claim for a worker who didn't need to put their life on the line.
 
2012-12-30 01:34:59 PM

stuffy: He had a tent pole.


That he was carrying around for the purpose of ...?

/it's a stupid farking rule
//but it's still their rule and he broke it
 
2012-12-30 01:35:35 PM
However, it occurs to me that if you are indicating that you did not miss the reference, but simply dismissed it as being inadequate, that perhaps you're really attempting to cover for having actually missed the reference.

Why must you see so through me?
 
2012-12-30 01:35:43 PM
Why do you people give your money to Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and KFC!!
Yeah, it's cheaper sometimes, but there are better alternatives out there that don't cost much more.

I'd rather pay $12 for an awesome pizza from my local mom & pop, or even $1 per taco at the (real) Mexican place.
Maybe it's just where I live, the local KFC shut down.
There's a local place that has wings that will make you orgasm. And I don't even particularly like wings.
 
2012-12-30 01:36:32 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: A tent pole that happened to be in his car.


That he was doing what with again?
 
2012-12-30 01:37:28 PM
Here's a feel good story from the WXYZ-TV archives for y'all....

Link
 
2012-12-30 01:38:42 PM
What kind of idiots are these 5 teens anyway? You wait until the driver gets up to the house or whatever and then you jump him. He'd have to be carrying his weapon to the door.
 
2012-12-30 01:39:14 PM

mr lawson: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that


I would assume this depends on where you work. I spent three months delivering pizza and at the end of that time, had made a grand total of eighty-some-odd dollars in tips.
 
2012-12-30 01:39:46 PM
Papa Johns is better anyway. No more of my money to Pizza Hut, KFC, Taco Bell.
 
2012-12-30 01:39:58 PM

dr-shotgun: elffster: dr-shotgun: Nearly 50 posts in and not a single Snow Crash reference...

You people are slipping.

Look upthread, someone said Enzo. Pay attention, squirt.

Eh, Uncle Enzo is an oblique reference to the situation at best.

I wold have been happy with:

"Didn't get nothing but trouble from The Swincegood"


But it's still a reference.  You don't have to get mad that you missed it.
 
2012-12-30 01:41:49 PM
Every story has two sides. Maybe the teens were defending themselves from awful pizza.
 
2012-12-30 01:42:15 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: YouPeopleAreCrazy: A tent pole that happened to be in his car.

That he was doing what with again?


I know it's weird but maybe he... camps? It's his personal car and It's a pretty good bet he doesn't keep a flimsy tent pole as a weapon. Those are hollow aluminum. Sounds like "grab what you can get"
 
2012-12-30 01:42:49 PM
why is he working delivering pizza's anyway
he should be a computer programmer
 
2012-12-30 01:43:11 PM

ima turkey: Papa Johns is better anyway. No more of my money to Pizza Hut, KFC, Taco Bell.


same policy as pizza hut.
 
2012-12-30 01:45:39 PM

mongbiohazard: tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.


Actually, you're wrong. It wasn't a weapon per se, it was an improvised weapon...


That's much more impressive, then. He managed to fight off five attackers with a -4 to hit?

/Obscure?
 
2012-12-30 01:46:00 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: That he was doing what with again?


According to the article, defending himself.

At any point in time, I might have several items in my car of similar size, and possibly even heavier.
A lug wrench, crowbar, some 1x2s for a home project, maybe even a tent pole. None of which are a 'weapon'.

Now, if a group of teens attacked me (according to the article), I might grab one of those items to defend myself (again, according to the article).
Now...was the lug wrench in the car as a weapon, or did it just happen to be at hand when I was attacked?

I know the state of current journalistic investigation really sucks, but at no point in that article did the words mugging or robbery appear. Attacked.
 
2012-12-30 01:46:23 PM

semiotix: Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens and he defended himself with a part of a tent pole that was in his car.

The Deliverator never pulled that gun in anger, or in fear. He pulled it once in Gila Highlands. Some punks in Gila Highlands, a fancy Burbclave, wanted themselves a delivery, and they didn't want to pay for it. Thought they would impress the Deliverator with a baseball bat. The Deliverator took out his gun, centered its laser doohickey on that poised Louisville Slugger, fired it. The recoil was immense, as though the weapon had blown up in his hand. The middle third of the baseball bat turned into a column of burning sawdust accelerating in all directions like a bursting star. Punk ended up holding this bat handle with milky smoke pouring out the end. Stupid look on his face. Didn't get nothing but trouble from the Deliverator.

Since then the Deliverator has kept the gun in the glove compartment and relied, instead, on a part of a tent pole, which had always been his weapon of choice anyhow. The punks in Gila Highlands weren't afraid of the gun, so the Deliverator was forced to use it. But partially assembled tents need no demonstrations.


immokalee.biz
http://immokalee.biz/assets/content/applauseResized.jpg
 
2012-12-30 01:47:05 PM

gambitsgirl: The My Little Pony Killer: YouPeopleAreCrazy: A tent pole that happened to be in his car.

That he was doing what with again?

I know it's weird but maybe he... camps? It's his personal car and It's a pretty good bet he doesn't keep a flimsy tent pole as a weapon. Those are hollow aluminum. Sounds like "grab what you can get"


Which would make the tentpole a ...?

/come on people, I know you're not this ignorant
 
2012-12-30 01:48:04 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: According to the article, defending himself.


You're so close, yet still so far away.  You must be doing this on purpose.  You're good.
 
2012-12-30 01:48:55 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: No subby, he was demoted for carrying a weapon.


He was not. He had a tent pole in the car that he used to defend himself. I can create some decent blunt force trauma with a tightly rolled newspaper, that doesn't make it a weapon, it means that a "weapon" can be improvised from just about anything.

/Would rather swing this stainless steel coffee cup rather than poke you with paper though.
 
2012-12-30 01:49:04 PM
Because I have not seen it, the idea is not that they will be sued, but what happens now that the thieves know this guy is carrying a weapon? they will carry a bigger weapon, and maybe shoot the driver instead of just telling him to hand over the money. The corporate policy is there to protect all the drivers and store employees from this sort of escalation. If the public things drivers get killed, then they wont be able to hire drivers.
 
2012-12-30 01:50:13 PM

RINO: I would assume this depends on where you work. I spent three months delivering pizza and at the end of that time, had made a grand total of eighty-some-odd dollars in tips.


That's bad. Even back in the mid-eighties in NW Lousyana I'd makemin $75/week in tips.
Biggest single tip? $60. Sunday afternoon church youth service meeting. $140 order, and he wrote me a check for $200.
 
2012-12-30 01:53:57 PM

mongbiohazard: ed something up the


TheManofPA: Pizza Hut is messed up with their delivery rules.  Basically, you need more than 20 dollars on you when you make deliveries in some cases....but if you get robbed and had more than 20 bucks on you, you can get fired because drivers aren't supposed to have more than 20 bucks on them.

I remember there was one place we delivered where a there had been 2 or 3 robberies AND then driver got stabbed (we had the inner city route). PH decided not to drop that location despite no tips/always dangerous but allowed the driver who got stabbed to always skip those so someone else had to take it.


When do you ever need more then 20 on you? They dont accept 100s unless the bill is 80 or greater, or 50s unless 30 or greater, so you never need more then 20 on you.
 
2012-12-30 01:54:32 PM
So you fire a delivery driver? No Problem!
In a recession - there's no shortage of applicants for the job if you lose one or two...
img204.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-30 01:55:11 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: You're so close, yet still so far away. You must be doing this on purpose. You're good.


FTA:
"Sam was demoted for violating a company policy on carrying weapons."

He wasn't carrying a weapon, he was carrying a tentpole in the car. He used the pole as a weapon to defend himself when attacked. But that was (apparently) not the intended purpose of the tentpole being in the car.

Under your reasoning, any item would be a "weapon" if I used it to defend myself, no matter why it was in the car. So I guess the only option is to let them beat my ass.
No thanks.
 
2012-12-30 01:56:04 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: RINO: I would assume this depends on where you work. I spent three months delivering pizza and at the end of that time, had made a grand total of eighty-some-odd dollars in tips.

That's bad. Even back in the mid-eighties in NW Lousyana I'd makemin $75/week in tips.
Biggest single tip? $60. Sunday afternoon church youth service meeting. $140 order, and he wrote me a check for $200.


I once delivered to Pope Air force base and got a 200 tip from the officers wives, but that is back when I was skinny and attractive, damn inactivity.
 
2012-12-30 01:57:19 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: thecactusman17: This is why anybody delivering pizza should carry one of these:

That looks like it takes 178 D-cells. I'm not sure your average pizza driver can afford one.


Nope, just six. But that makes it long enough to get some serious swing momentum with more weight (and pain) than a tent pole.
 
2012-12-30 01:57:41 PM

Ken VeryBigLiar: liam76: Going on the article he was attacked. In that case it isn't defending company property he is defending himself. I am sure a good lawyer could come up with some rights of hit they violated for punishing himself for self defense.

The company's issue isn't with it's property being damaged, it's paying a work comp death claim for a worker who didn't need to put their life on the line.


He was attacked. He didn't put his life on the line, the attackers did. The company, by demoting him, is saying employees will be punished for defending themselves.
 
2012-12-30 01:57:50 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: The My Little Pony Killer: You're so close, yet still so far away. You must be doing this on purpose. You're good.

FTA:
"Sam was demoted for violating a company policy on carrying weapons."

He wasn't carrying a weapon, he was carrying a tentpole in the car. He used the pole as a weapon to defend himself when attacked. But that was (apparently) not the intended purpose of the tentpole being in the car.

Under your reasoning, any item would be a "weapon" if I used it to defend myself, no matter why it was in the car. So I guess the only option is to let them beat my ass.
No thanks.


Amazing thought, that.  If you use something as a weapon, it's a weapon.  If you improvise something to use as a weapon, and you then use it as a weapon, it's a weapon.  Granted, it wasn't a weapon before the attack, but the instant he used it as one and then put it right back into his car, it became a weapon in his car.  He broke Pizza Hut's stupid little rule.
 
2012-12-30 01:59:33 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: RINO: I would assume this depends on where you work. I spent three months delivering pizza and at the end of that time, had made a grand total of eighty-some-odd dollars in tips.

That's bad...


Yeah, but that's Dayton for you.

/There was a section of our delivery area we weren't allowed to go to because the drivers were robbed so often.
//There was another section we still went to but were told never to leave the car running there.
///I carried a 16" ASP, but never had to use it.
 
2012-12-30 02:00:39 PM
I don't know why we let thieves get off as easily as we do. Get rid of a thief, and you not only get rid of a thief, its less economic pressure on everyone else (which should mean less incentive for others to steal, as there's less demand for resources). In the interests of fairness we would have to do the same for the corporate versions, though, and, sad to say, that wouldn't fly.
 
2012-12-30 02:01:10 PM

thaylin: Because I have not seen it, the idea is not that they will be sued, but what happens now that the thieves know this guy is carrying a weapon? they will carry a bigger weapon, and maybe shoot the driver instead of just telling him to hand over the money. The corporate policy is there to protect all the drivers and store employees from this sort of escalation. If the public things drivers get killed, then they wont be able to hire drivers.


Or they could decline to deliver in that neighborhood again.
 
2012-12-30 02:02:00 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: The My Little Pony Killer: You're so close, yet still so far away. You must be doing this on purpose. You're good.

FTA:
"Sam was demoted for violating a company policy on carrying weapons."

He wasn't carrying a weapon, he was carrying a tentpole in the car. He used the pole as a weapon to defend himself when attacked. But that was (apparently) not the intended purpose of the tentpole being in the car.

Under your reasoning, any item would be a "weapon" if I used it to defend myself, no matter why it was in the car. So I guess the only option is to let them beat my ass.
No thanks.


The only reason the tent pole was in the car was to be used as a weapon, unless of course he had the rest of the tent there.

So yes, he was carrying a weapon with him.

The option was to give up the pizzas and the money.  That is what the company wants you to do.
 
2012-12-30 02:02:27 PM

here to help: Well that's what he gets for being a slacker. If he had worked harder in life he wouldn't have had to deal with this. Don't blame Pizza Hut for standing by company policy.


This. While our society would cease to function in a New York minute if people didn't do menial jobs, we should still stipulate that those who do them should be paid and treated like shiat, as a demonstration of our superiority over them.
 
2012-12-30 02:02:40 PM

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: This is the company that fired me (and other drivers) right before reaching 200 Accident Free Hours driving. At the time, anyway, the 200 AFH mark was supposed to earn a raise. They couldn't have that, so....


Hilarious, since 200 accident-free days shouldn't be an issue, even for stoned 18-year-olds. It's sort of like those "achievement badges" you get for clicking on the start button of a flash game.

FWIW, since Pizza Hut probably does enter into a written contract of employment with its drivers, they didn't have to give you a raise then or any other time. Obviously you were fired the minute you stopped making the trainee wage, but in this case it sounds more like the work of a desperate asshole low-level manager trying to balance the books. Pizza Hut, Inc., probably wanted you to stay on the job making minimum-wage-plus-a-quarter rather than being pissed off at them for the rest of your life.
 
2012-12-30 02:03:35 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Amazing thought, that. If you use something as a weapon, it's a weapon. If you improvise something to use as a weapon, and you then use it as a weapon, it's a weapon. Granted, it wasn't a weapon before the attack, but the instant he used it as one and then put it right back into his car, it became a weapon in his car. He broke Pizza Hut's stupid little rule.


Yes, it becomes a weapon when you use it as such.
However....right now, there is a tire iron on the passenger floor of my truck. Am I carrying a weapon? If I use it to defend myself, it is still a tire iron - an item carried in alomst every car on the road.

PH has taken issue with him 'carrying a weapon'. In that case, every single driver they have is 'carrying a weapon' in their vehicle.
 
2012-12-30 02:04:24 PM
If you don't mindlessly rules like this, especially when it's a high profile case, it sends a signal that thinking is tolerated.
 
2012-12-30 02:04:38 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: The only reason the tent pole was in the car was to be used as a weapon, unless of course he had the rest of the tent there.


And you know this how? A tent pole is not what I would choose to carry as a 'weapon'.
 
2012-12-30 02:05:27 PM

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: This is the company that fired me (and other drivers) right before reaching 200 Accident Free Hours driving. At the time, anyway, the 200 AFH mark was supposed to earn a raise. They couldn't have that, so....


/Hardly surprising.  I've seen people fired from a large company here when they were one day from their one year anniversary. The next day they were supposed to be a full union member with benefits.  Time after time, just walked them out.  Next. Gotta feel the love.
 
2012-12-30 02:05:46 PM
Glen Burnie? Really? The evil is spreading.
 
2012-12-30 02:09:03 PM

jso2897: here to help: Well that's what he gets for being a slacker. If he had worked harder in life he wouldn't have had to deal with this. Don't blame Pizza Hut for standing by company policy.

This. While our society would cease to function in a New York minute if people didn't do menial jobs, we should still stipulate that those who do them should be paid and treated like shiat, as a demonstration of our superiority over them.


That's why we have to ramp up the pressure on illegals. You want those 3 sweet AMERICAN dollars an hour? You're gonna fookin' suffer for it you dirty Brownie Mcbrownan Brownstein Shabadabadoowahtser!
 
2012-12-30 02:10:02 PM

silverjets: Fark it.

I'd drop the pizzas and the money on the ground and walk away. Let the robbers have it. Pizza Hut's products and their money is not worth my life.


THIS
Let the police do the dirty work (i.e., follow the trail of diarrhea back to the perps)
 
2012-12-30 02:14:37 PM
Just a point, and without the police report we don't really know, but the article says "attacked", nothing about it being an attempted robbery. It coulda been some kids just looking for someone to jump. I've been beaten up before pretty bad and not robbed. At that point he's not defending company property, he's defending himself. What if you give a robber the money and they start beating you demanding more that you don't have? You have a right to defend YOURSELF.
 
2012-12-30 02:15:20 PM
I don't think some people know what a tent pole is.
 
2012-12-30 02:15:23 PM

here to help: jso2897: here to help: Well that's what he gets for being a slacker. If he had worked harder in life he wouldn't have had to deal with this. Don't blame Pizza Hut for standing by company policy.

This. While our society would cease to function in a New York minute if people didn't do menial jobs, we should still stipulate that those who do them should be paid and treated like shiat, as a demonstration of our superiority over them.

That's why we have to ramp up the pressure on illegals. You want those 3 sweet AMERICAN dollars an hour? You're gonna fookin' suffer for it you dirty Brownie Mcbrownan Brownstein Shabadabadoowahtser!


Well, we can't very well expect American labor to maintain the proper attitudes if they aren't reminded that they can be replaced by a third-world peasant any time they start demanding living wages or some other such communist nonsense.
 
2012-12-30 02:16:46 PM
They were probably going to beat him in addition to robbing him. For fun. Five teenagers? Yeah.
 
2012-12-30 02:18:15 PM

Begoggle:
There's a local place that has wings that will make you orgasm. And I don't even particularly like wings.


Nothing to do with TFA, but last weekend I was biatching about there being no good wing places in this town, so my buddy swung by and took me to this little hole-in-the-wall place in a strip mall. Had a 20 piece of something called "tactical nuke"

I don't think it was an orgasm as much as it was endorphin overload, but I was proven wrong in spades.

/just need to go out and look
//now back to your regularly scheduled thread
 
2012-12-30 02:18:54 PM

dr-shotgun: However, it occurs to me that if you are indicating that you did not miss the reference, but simply dismissed it as being inadequate, that perhaps you're really attempting to cover for having actually missed the reference.

Why must you see so through me?


Well if you wouldn't stand in front of the x-ray machine...
 
2012-12-30 02:20:05 PM

lewismarktwo: I don't think some people know what a tent pole is.


I have one in my car...and my shorts...would you like to see it? The one in my car I mean.
 
2012-12-30 02:21:10 PM
Can he hire armed guards, as the execs would do?
 
2012-12-30 02:26:15 PM

spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).


You know nothing of pizza delivery.  Do you really think a pizza franchise (Pizza Hut of Maryland) provides company cars for delivery drivers?

It was his car, not Pizza Hut's.  The tent stake was not in it to be a weapon; he must have gone camping recently.

He was punched several times.  He grabbed the stake to defend himself.  IDK if he would have been punched had he meekly offered up the pizza and cash.  Maybe he never got a chance to make that offer before being punched.  Given five unarmed teenagers, I suspect they punched while yelling, "Give us the dough - both kinds!"  His response was perfectly appropriate under the circumstances.

His employer has every right to say, "Give up our property" but no right to say, "Let yourself be injured or killed."
 
2012-12-30 02:28:07 PM

thaylin: When do you ever need more then 20 on you? They dont accept 100s unless the bill is 80 or greater, or 50s unless 30 or greater, so you never need more then 20 on you.


And then the customer calls up and biatches that you wouldn't give them their pizza simply because they had a large bill. And the manager caves and gives them their food free. And tells you it's coming out of your salary- next time just take the $100 bill. Oh, and it's your ass if it turns out to be fake.

Not to mention there's the possibility of delivering two or more orders per trip, thus possibly needing $20 X [number or orders].
 
2012-12-30 02:28:09 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.


A tent pole is not a weapon although it can be used as one. The same goes for many items found in a vehicle. The tire iron for example, not a weapon per se, but deadly.
 
2012-12-30 02:28:19 PM
Humm, guess delivery drivers are the new atms
 
2012-12-30 02:29:09 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: lewismarktwo: I don't think some people know what a tent pole is.

I have one in my car...and my shorts...would you like to see it? The one in my car I mean.


"Pizza delivery guy beats off 5 men with a massive erection. Next on FOX New at 6."
 
2012-12-30 02:29:20 PM

thecactusman17: This is why anybody delivering pizza should carry one of these:

/"We don't allow weapons for our drivers."
//"No problem. I only bring a flashlight with me on my deliveries."


So you think a big arse flashlight would not be considered a weapon while a fiberglass tent pole was considered a weapon?

Drove pizza's for six years of my youth and never got robbed. I think I looked so poor the criminals felt sorry for me.
 
2012-12-30 02:34:15 PM

Moonfisher: Oh Pizza Hut. My husband worked there when we were very young. How do they consider a tent pole a weapon? Because he brandished it? So if he threw hot pizza at them, would that be a weapon too? Just handing over food and cash isn't always going to do it. We had a delivery driver hand over everything and they still knocked him down and kicked the crap out of him. I had pepper spray when I used to deliver for Little Ceasar's. No min wage job is worth that shiat.


Clearly, we must outlaw tent poles.
 
2012-12-30 02:37:24 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: mover


You're supposed to tip movers??? sh*t...
 
2012-12-30 02:39:00 PM
No "hate crime" charges against the driver for emotionally scarring those adorable little scamps? All they were after was their entitlement pies.

Clearly, the trauma they suffered as a result of his defense and their subsequent arrests will have a deleterious effect on their future studies, jeopardizing their post-graduate aspirations.

Mr. Swicegood is no less than the Bull Connor of pizza delivery drivers, and should be called out for his hatred!
Not only were his actions in defiance of company policy, they were racist!
 
2012-12-30 02:40:08 PM
Its important to note that Pizza Hut doesn't own anything (TFA said it owned a few other fast food chains) Pepsi owns Pizza Hut and the other chains (why you cant get a farking Coke at any of those places). I will never purchase another Pepsi product from this point forward, and would urge others to boycott also. In light of this insanity, putting every last one of pepsi's share holders on the public dole is too good for them.
 
2012-12-30 02:40:38 PM

fredklein: thaylin: When do you ever need more then 20 on you? They dont accept 100s unless the bill is 80 or greater, or 50s unless 30 or greater, so you never need more then 20 on you.

And then the customer calls up and biatches that you wouldn't give them their pizza simply because they had a large bill. And the manager caves and gives them their food free. And tells you it's coming out of your salary- next time just take the $100 bill. Oh, and it's your ass if it turns out to be fake.

Not to mention there's the possibility of delivering two or more orders per trip, thus possibly needing $20 X [number or orders].


And then you get your manager fired for breaking cooperate policy, seen this happen more then once.

as for your last statement the most you would need is 20-x + 20-y where x and y are the cost of the orders. If any order is greater then 20 then replace 20 with the next multiple of 20 over the order, you will never carry 40 (since 2 deliveries max is also corporate policy) and you always get manager permission to carry that much.
 
2012-12-30 02:47:57 PM

thaylin: If any order is greater then 20 then replace 20 with the next multiple of 20 over the order, you will never carry 40 (since 2 deliveries max is also corporate policy)


Not in either of the places where I delivered.
Even just one run to the local college might be 3 or 4 separate orders.
 
2012-12-30 02:48:22 PM

I Browse: Amos Quito: "Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens... "

"Teens", you say?

If you were writing the story, what word would you use to describe them?



Everyone knows that the word "teens" (in the context of such an article) is a "code word" that almost always refers to strawberry blonde adolescent girls wearing My Little Pony sweat shirts and listening to Justin Bieber on their MP3 players.

Why not just come out and say so?
 
2012-12-30 02:50:38 PM

thecactusman17: This is why anybody delivering pizza should carry one of these:

[images.knifecenter.com image 800x800]

/"We don't allow weapons for our drivers."
//"No problem. I only bring a flashlight with me on my deliveries."


You gotta be able to see the house numbers...hardest part of being a delivery driver.

/along with working while high
//and not eating the customer's pizza as a result
 
2012-12-30 02:52:35 PM
Hard to tell from the article what exactly happened.

If it was a matter of "hand over the pizza and money" and he responded by grabbing a tentpole and going Jackie Chan then yes he's right to be fired. I've worked retail. The policy is ALWAYS hand over the goods, don't do anything to escalate the situation or impede the quick departure of the criminal. Insurance will handle the loss and your life isn't worth whatever cash is in the till and whatever crap it is you sell. Even when I was in the armed forces that was the policy. When I was out in the bush and unfortunate enough to pull weapons sentry my C.O. would say my job is to help the thieves load the weapons into their vehicles. The idea being anyone ballsy enough to sneak that deep into an army base to steal a weapons cache is going to be armed to the teeth and twitchy as all fark. If you try to go all John Wayne you're going to end up getting a shiat load of your people killed.

Now if it was a case of him actually being attacked first, and then defending himself then he's completely justified in defending himself.

As for the tentpole in the car issue that's a tough one. Does he go camping and just happened to have a tentpole in the car that he grabbed in desperation? Not to sound all ninja-force ITG here but pretty much everything is a weapon. I'm assuming that pizza hut delivery drivers use their own vehicles for delivery . If its anything like my car its probably past due for a cleaning and there's a lot of crap I could grab and defend myself with in a pinch lying about it.

Now if it's a piece of a tentpole  that he's modified specifically to be a weapon then yes they're justified in firing for the weapon thing.
 
2012-12-30 02:53:30 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Ex-Texan: Corporate policy = "how many lights do you see?"

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 636x480]


undiscoveredcountryproject.com
THERE WERE FIVE FIGHTS
 
2012-12-30 02:54:00 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.


A farking tent pole? Seriously? Jesus.....
 
2012-12-30 02:54:21 PM

thaylin: fredklein: thaylin: When do you ever need more then 20 on you? They dont accept 100s unless the bill is 80 or greater, or 50s unless 30 or greater, so you never need more then 20 on you.

And then the customer calls up and biatches that you wouldn't give them their pizza simply because they had a large bill. And the manager caves and gives them their food free. And tells you it's coming out of your salary- next time just take the $100 bill. Oh, and it's your ass if it turns out to be fake.

Not to mention there's the possibility of delivering two or more orders per trip, thus possibly needing $20 X [number or orders].

And then you get your manager fired for breaking cooperate policy, seen this happen more then once.

as for your last statement the most you would need is 20-x + 20-y where x and y are the cost of the orders. If any order is greater then 20 then replace 20 with the next multiple of 20 over the order, you will never carry 40 (since 2 deliveries max is also corporate policy) and you always get manager permission to carry that much.


That's an impressive lack of fourth grade math skills.
You really do work at Pizza Hut don't you?
 
2012-12-30 02:54:25 PM
- Twelve-gauge. You need shells?
- Yeah, double-ought.


- Yeah, that'll give you a wallop.
- Y'all got camping supplies?


Tent poles. You already have the tent?


Well, something like that.


Give me the model number on the tent,
I can order poles.


- Never mind. I want a tent.
- What kind?


The kind with most poles.
 
2012-12-30 02:54:29 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: RINO: I would assume this depends on where you work. I spent three months delivering pizza and at the end of that time, had made a grand total of eighty-some-odd dollars in tips.

That's bad. Even back in the mid-eighties in NW Lousyana I'd makemin $75/week in tips.
Biggest single tip? $60. Sunday afternoon church youth service meeting. $140 order, and he wrote me a check for $200.


I once got $50 for a 20 pie order close to Christmas time. Made my month, especially as I was only making about $7.50/hour then.
 
2012-12-30 02:55:10 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


The poor soul who actually has to taste-test the pizzas...
 
2012-12-30 02:55:59 PM
As someone who used to work at Pizza Hut, I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

/shiatty job, but made me appreciate doing the hard work and getting a good wage
 
2012-12-30 02:56:37 PM
There was a time, long long ago, when Pizza Hut did not suck.

You could get these massive pitchers of beer, for $3.
 
2012-12-30 02:58:35 PM

thisisarepeat: Its important to note that Pizza Hut doesn't own anything (TFA said it owned a few other fast food chains) Pepsi owns Pizza Hut and the other chains (why you cant get a farking Coke at any of those places). I will never purchase another Pepsi product from this point forward, and would urge others to boycott also. In light of this insanity, putting every last one of pepsi's share holders on the public dole is too good for them.


Pepsi haven't owned Pizzahut, KFC,and Taco bell since 97'. Yum brands owns them.
/I use to think the same thing until 2010
 
2012-12-30 03:08:01 PM
No "company policy' should ever prevent you from defending yourself from harm.
 
2012-12-30 03:09:09 PM
I have seen a lot of cases in the news where groups of teens go around various towns picking out victims and beating them up for shiats and giggles.... in some cases injuring them quite badly. I guess I can understand the company policy about not fighting people over small amounts of company money or property. However, I do have a problem with a company policy that prevents lone employees (as delivery drivers are) from effectively defending themselves from an assault where they face large groups of assailants who could potentially hurt or kill them.

Basically, if some random dude runs up and grabs the pizza box and tries to run, let them keep the stupid pizza. However, if 5 dudes run up and try to assault you and rob you and you feel they are posing a threat to your personal safety, you should be able to defend yourself without facing the loss of your job and / or wages...
 
2012-12-30 03:13:19 PM
I assume he was using his own car to make deliveries? So if the attackers demanded his keys, would Pizza Hut buy him a new car?

No? Then they don't have a leg to stand on. You can't make "let other people take your stuff" a part of your business policy. How hard is it for management to just act like human beings?
 
2012-12-30 03:14:36 PM

Lidocaine: I have seen a lot of cases in the news where groups of teens black youth go around various towns picking out victims white and Asian folks and beating them up for shiats and giggles.... in some cases injuring them quite badly even killing them.


FTFY

It's happening all over the country even though the media is twisting itself into pretzels to ignore it.
 
2012-12-30 03:22:25 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: I assume he was using his own car to make deliveries? So if the attackers demanded his keys, would Pizza Hut buy him a new car?

No? Then they don't have a leg to stand on. You can't make "let other people take your stuff" a part of your business policy. How hard is it for management to just act like human beings?


Very good point. I find it funny how the people who work in security-laden environments away from the dangers of the streets (and reality itself) and who live in homes with elaborate security systems, watch dogs, and probably firearms are always the ones who are so willing to impose rules on others keeping them from defending themselves.... "I may protect myself and my property... but you may not... peasant"....
 
2012-12-30 03:24:53 PM
He should've just squirted the stuffed crust at them.
 
2012-12-30 03:27:11 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: thisisarepeat: Its important to note that Pizza Hut doesn't own anything (TFA said it owned a few other fast food chains) Pepsi owns Pizza Hut and the other chains (why you cant get a farking Coke at any of those places). I will never purchase another Pepsi product from this point forward, and would urge others to boycott also. In light of this insanity, putting every last one of pepsi's share holders on the public dole is too good for them.

Pepsi haven't owned Pizzahut, KFC,and Taco bell since 97'. Yum brands owns them.
/I use to think the same thing until 2010


Awesome, I was going to give up mountain dew.
 
2012-12-30 03:28:22 PM

No Time To Explain: This reminds me of that lifeguard bullshiat story

/my money is on that they would have fired him for giving the 'za and the cash away if that was the path he so choose


They would have.

Pizza Hut and Dominos have a strict $20 limit on the cash a driver can carry. However, they are supposed to have $20 in order to make proper change. If the driver lost more than $20, he would've been fired. And odds are he would've lost more than $20, because - despite there being drop boxes for each driver - since you have to carry $20, odds are you have to go to a manager and have him write out a receipt to document the transaction to split a 5 or 10 dollar bill.

But the managers are busy. The managers are making pizzas. And if you wait for a manager, you'll miss your pizza, and you will be fired.
 
2012-12-30 03:30:17 PM

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?


Answering the phone, speaking with the in-bread.
 
2012-12-30 03:34:03 PM

thaylin: breaking cooperate policy... 2 deliveries max is also corporate policy)


"Now, I'm not telling you to break policy (or break the speed limit), I'm just saying that you're taking too long coming back to the shop after every 2 deliveries... customer service... speedy delivery... so do more deliveries faster, or you're fired."

Seriously- haven't you ever been in a job where you were expected (although it was never actually said) to break the rules?? Yeah, you're not supposed to work on your break... but if a customer complains you didn't help them, you'll be written up, regardless. yeah, you are supposed to get,/i> a break, but we're busy today.... And so on. And, standing up for yourself gets you on the trouble-makers list, and possibly fired.
 
2012-12-30 03:37:51 PM

BarkingUnicorn: spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

You know nothing of pizza delivery.  Do you really think a pizza franchise (Pizza Hut of Maryland) provides company cars for delivery drivers?

It was his car, not Pizza Hut's.  The tent stake was not in it to be a weapon; he must have gone camping recently.

He was punched several times.  He grabbed the stake to defend himself.


To bad they weren't vampires.
 
2012-12-30 03:37:56 PM
Argh. Last line should be:

Yeah, you are supposed to get a break, but we're busy today.... And so on. And, standing up for yourself gets you on the trouble-makers list, and possibly fired.
 
2012-12-30 03:38:45 PM
Was it one of those assault tent poles?
 
2012-12-30 03:46:19 PM
Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s
 
2012-12-30 03:49:55 PM

spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut

Personal car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

Pizza Hut does not provide company cars.
Maybe the rest of the tent was in the car from a camping trip?
 
2012-12-30 03:54:46 PM

thisisarepeat: Its important to note that Pizza Hut doesn't own anything (TFA said it owned a few other fast food chains) Pepsi owns Pizza Hut and the other chains (why you cant get a farking Coke at any of those places). I will never purchase another Pepsi product from this point forward, and would urge others to boycott also. In light of this insanity, putting every last one of pepsi's share holders on the public dole is too good for them.


So a subsidiary cant own anything, just because it itself is owned by something? Does not make sense.

also since you are on a roll, Pepsi has not owned it in 15 years, Yum! brands owns it.
 
2012-12-30 03:56:21 PM

farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s


any chance you can put the email address you used in here?  i don't see it on their contact page
 
2012-12-30 03:58:13 PM

farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s


You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.
 
2012-12-30 04:03:21 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s

any chance you can put the email address you used in here?  i don't see it on their contact page


Gladly, kind farker. It was posted on the PH FB page - inf­o[nospam-﹫-backwards]tuhazzi­p­*co­m
 
2012-12-30 04:03:30 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: No subby, he was demoted for carrying a weapon.


Well pretty much any old thing can be a weapon if employed properly. Heck, they can charge you with posession of bomb making materials if you have clorox.

/This guy didn't seem to be protecting the pizza or the money, but is Pizza Hut going to buy him a new car or pay for his injuries? Maybe they'd have to pay for health treatment, but I don't think they'd pay for car repairs.
 
2012-12-30 04:04:45 PM

thaylin: You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.


I hate to break this news to you, but if you give up or don't give up, they will still kill you on a whim.  Better not to lie down and beg "thank you sir, may i have another?".
 
2012-12-30 04:05:05 PM

thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s

You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.


It's only flawed in the fact that I (and YOU) were not there. #SMH
 
2012-12-30 04:06:12 PM

farkingbubbler: any chance you can put the email address you used in here? i don't see it on their contact page

Gladly, kind farker. It was posted on the PH FB page - info at pizzahut dot com


thank you very much
 
2012-12-30 04:06:49 PM

mgshamster: Once I transferred to another store in a lower-middle class area, my tip earnings skyrocketed.


with the inflated gas prices, what is a reasonable amount to tip these days? I mean it seems a little ridiculous to tip 10% of the price of pizza for delivery, it is sort of the same with carry-out. But I think it is good to tip something. What is an appropriate amount these days? (difference for city versus boonies)

enqui-farking minds want to know! It was so much simpler when gas was like $1-2/gallon.

i want to know so i can tip the dominos guy...
 
2012-12-30 04:07:17 PM

halB: Pizza Hut and Dominos have a strict $20 limit on the cash a driver can carry. However, they are supposed to have $20 in order to make proper change. If the driver lost more than $20, he would've been fired. And odds are he would've lost more than $20, because - despite there being drop boxes for each driver - since you have to carry $20, odds are you have to go to a manager and have him write out a receipt to document the transaction to split a 5 or 10 dollar bill.


/CSB time

I was fired from Dominoes for being robbed.

I didn't defend myself, I didn't have any weapon, I just diffused the situation and walked away, exactly as the manager had drilled into our heads each month.

I was only doing one delivery at the time, so I was under the $20 limit.

So why was I fired? The robber stole $19 in cash, and a $35 order of pizza... According to the regional/corporate manager, the pizza itself counts toward that $20 limit, so I really lost $54...

Then to add insult to injury, my final paycheck had a $54 deduction for the money I lost during the robbery. Being a tipped position ($2.75/hr), that put my paycheck down to less than a dollar.

The paycheck deduction was overturned in court, but the firing was completely legal because it's an at-will state.
 
2012-12-30 04:11:10 PM

thaylin: thisisarepeat: Its important to note that Pizza Hut doesn't own anything (TFA said it owned a few other fast food chains) Pepsi owns Pizza Hut and the other chains (why you cant get a farking Coke at any of those places). I will never purchase another Pepsi product from this point forward, and would urge others to boycott also. In light of this insanity, putting every last one of pepsi's share holders on the public dole is too good for them.

So a subsidiary cant own anything, just because it itself is owned by something? Does not make sense.

also since you are on a roll, Pepsi has not owned it in 15 years, Yum! brands owns it.


Another farker already told me about the pepsi thing. A subsidiary owning something doesn't make sense. It would be like saying my dog owns a rubber newspaper. I own the dog, and I own the newspaper. I don't use the newspaper, my dog does, but my dog doesn't own property.
 
2012-12-30 04:12:50 PM
An entity can not simultaneously own and be owned.
 
2012-12-30 04:16:24 PM

thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s

You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.


By that logic, the only solution is to kill the robber, thus ensuring no further escalation. A policy I wouldn't disagree with.
 
2012-12-30 04:18:39 PM

the ha ha guy: halB: Pizza Hut and Dominos have a strict $20 limit on the cash a driver can carry. However, they are supposed to have $20 in order to make proper change. If the driver lost more than $20, he would've been fired. And odds are he would've lost more than $20, because - despite there being drop boxes for each driver - since you have to carry $20, odds are you have to go to a manager and have him write out a receipt to document the transaction to split a 5 or 10 dollar bill.

/CSB time

I was fired from Dominoes for being robbed.

I didn't defend myself, I didn't have any weapon, I just diffused the situation and walked away, exactly as the manager had drilled into our heads each month.

I was only doing one delivery at the time, so I was under the $20 limit.

So why was I fired? The robber stole $19 in cash, and a $35 order of pizza... According to the regional/corporate manager, the pizza itself counts toward that $20 limit, so I really lost $54...

Then to add insult to injury, my final paycheck had a $54 deduction for the money I lost during the robbery. Being a tipped position ($2.75/hr), that put my paycheck down to less than a dollar.

The paycheck deduction was overturned in court, but the firing was completely legal because it's an at-will state.


Wanna know how I know you are lieing? First dominos pays full minimum wage, not tip minimum wage at corporate stores. I worked for them for over 10 years from mid 90s to mid 2000's and then again in 2009 for a year when I got laid off. Second the pizza never counts.

Now if it was a franchise that may be different, but they dont have corporate managers.
 
2012-12-30 04:19:54 PM

thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s

You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.

By that logic, the only solution is to kill the robber, thus ensuring no further escalation. A policy I wouldn't disagree with.


Not true in the least. The reason for the policy is not for that individual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons then ALL robberies would likely use guns and/or deadly force.
 
2012-12-30 04:21:13 PM

halB: No Time To Explain: This reminds me of that lifeguard bullshiat story

/my money is on that they would have fired him for giving the 'za and the cash away if that was the path he so choose

They would have.

Pizza Hut and Dominos have a strict $20 limit on the cash a driver can carry. However, they are supposed to have $20 in order to make proper change. If the driver lost more than $20, he would've been fired. And odds are he would've lost more than $20, because - despite there being drop boxes for each driver - since you have to carry $20, odds are you have to go to a manager and have him write out a receipt to document the transaction to split a 5 or 10 dollar bill.

But the managers are busy. The managers are making pizzas. And if you wait for a manager, you'll miss your pizza, and you will be fired.


Yes, this is common in the modern corporate 'unskilled' labor market. They make up a bunch of Hammurabi-esque rules that are all but impossible to comply with in real world operations so they always have an excuse to fire an employee.
 
2012-12-30 04:22:02 PM
Update on the "info at pizzahut dot com" email address: had my rant bounced back to me. So, apparently you can't blow up their email box. Checking Yum!'s site bounces back to the horror that is PH. Not a lot of help there other than what is listed here already. Sowwy.
 
2012-12-30 04:24:28 PM

thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s

You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.

By that logic, the only solution is to kill the robber, thus ensuring no further escalation. A policy I wouldn't disagree w ...

Not true in the least. The reason for the policy is not for that individual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons then ALL robberies would likely use guns and/or deadly force.


Or they would choose a softer target, cops carry cash, but nobody robs them.
 
2012-12-30 04:29:55 PM
www.chillywilly.org

ob-Fry
 
2012-12-30 04:31:50 PM

DanZero: Is this really any different than any other corporate policy on the books telling employees not to "be a hero" when it comes to being robbed/stopping shoplifters? Major liabilities for them are abound if you try to stop them, and we've seen enough stories about people getting fired here for doing just that. It's an unfortunate situation, but people need to know the company is more than likely *not* to take their side in a situation like this.


Funny how instinct kicks in and corporate policy is forgotten. Board members think everything happens in a vacuum and there's time to be rational.
 
2012-12-30 04:33:42 PM

thaylin: Wanna know how I know you are lieing? First dominos pays full minimum wage, not tip minimum wage at corporate stores. I worked for them for over 10 years from mid 90s to mid 2000's and then again in 2009 for a year when I got laid off. Second the pizza never counts.

Now if it was a franchise that may be different, but they dont have corporate managers.


It was a franchise, so they didn't have to pay full minimum wage.

The regional manager was sent as a representative during the lawsuit, since corporate was named as a defendant.

As for the pizza never counting, the regional manager said that's up to the franchise owner. In corporate stores, only cash counts, but franchisees are given the option to count any and all company-owned property lost during the robbery.
 
2012-12-30 04:36:27 PM

thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: ....

Not true in the least. The reason for the policy is not for that individual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons then ALL robberies would likely use guns and/or deadly force.


If you're going to rob a pizza driver and have access to a gun you would use the gun anyway. This is about keeping Pizza Hut's insurance low, not about the safety of the driver.
 
2012-12-30 04:39:39 PM

thisisarepeat: ...(why you cant get a farking Coke at any of those places)...


You say that like it's a bad thing.
 
2012-12-30 04:41:45 PM

lewismarktwo: idual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons th


But if you were wanting to rob a pizza driver and did not have easy access to a gun you would probably not use a gun, but if you knew they were packing, then you would ensure you were packing.
 
2012-12-30 04:44:13 PM

thaylin: lewismarktwo: idual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons th

But if you were wanting to rob a pizza driver and did not have easy access to a gun you would probably not use a gun, but if you knew they were packing, then you would ensure you were packing.


Or you would rob someones house while they were at work instead.
 
2012-12-30 04:45:28 PM

lewismarktwo: Or you would rob someones house while they were at work instead.


Right, now we are just getting into guesses, you assume that all thieves are smart, most are not that is why they have to be thieves.
 
2012-12-30 04:46:19 PM

thaylin: lewismarktwo: Or you would rob someones house while they were at work instead.

Right, now we are just getting into guesses, you assume that all thieves are smart, most are not that is why they have to be thieves.


lols
 
2012-12-30 04:48:34 PM

thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

Kinda ironic that a place called YUM.... serves up such swill (both IN the kitchen and, apparently, on the road with their driver policies). The driver did NOT have a gun, knife, mace, or such: he defended himself with a makeshift pole piece. Do your restaurants not verify addresses before making deliveries, especially in surly areas? Now assuming drivers follow Tip #45 (lie back & take it) - would your employee get covered while recouperating (worker's comp - which only goes so far)? What about loss of life? And your company doesn't give two shiats (let alone one) that he tried to exercise a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT? It's one thing to tell the employee "give up the cash and/or product"; but to DEMOTE the employee for trying to save his life???? Are your delivery people THAT expendable? These aren't the days of just college kids trying to earn a few bucks between classes - these are MAIN family-supporting JOBS for quite a few, and jobs that are well below the poverty line INCLUDING low-level management staff! I'm going to go the boycott thing one step further and not only boycott Pizza Hut, but ALL Yum Brands corporate restaurants (that includes Taco Bell and KFC). My local Pizza Hut is franchised by Wisconsin Hospitality Group and does not offer delivery at my area; however, being under the PH umbrella they will be bypassed in the days and weeks to come. (MSG COPIED AND E-MAILED TO CORPORATE AS WELL)

/former Domino's driver in the 80s

You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.

By that logic, the only solution is to kill the robber, thus ensuring no further escalation. A policy I wouldn't disagree with.

Not true in the least. The reason for the policy is not for that individual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons then ALL robberies would likely use guns and/or deadly force.


BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.
 
2012-12-30 04:49:02 PM

RINO: thisisarepeat: ...(why you cant get a farking Coke at any of those places)...

You say that like it's a bad thing.


It is. Pepsi tastes like sweetened swamp water. I prefer something with a little kick, and actual taste. The only good product that Pepsi Co. makes is Mountain Dew, and even that is better with the real sugar version.
 
2012-12-30 04:52:20 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: RINO: I would assume this depends on where you work. I spent three months delivering pizza and at the end of that time, had made a grand total of eighty-some-odd dollars in tips.

That's bad. Even back in the mid-eighties in NW Lousyana I'd makemin $75/week in tips.
Biggest single tip? $60. Sunday afternoon church youth service meeting. $140 order, and he wrote me a check for $200.


Back when I got out of the military, my first job was delivering for Domino's. Our manager was cool, he would only make us put the car topper on if the owner was in town. Anyway, my church delivery involved a weatherman on the local (small town) NBC affiliate who was a superb asshole. Keep in mind, at Domino's, you also have to help in the store - ovens, make pies, wash dishes, etc. This delivery was in the evening, 5 or 6pm, I roll up there with his 10 pies and he immediately starts berating me in front of everyone for my dirty clothes. I held my tongue, as i knew i would be the bad guy on this. I wanted to just haul off and give him one right in his smug face sooo bad. I went back and told my boss what happened and he just shrugged and apologized to me. There wasn't much anything he could really do about it.

/my tip for that run - a whopping $0
//he was also a hypocrite. church going family man - ended up cheating on his wife and he left town. he was also subsequently fired from his next two markets, so i heard.
 
2012-12-30 04:52:54 PM

liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.



Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?
 
2012-12-30 04:56:25 PM

KarmicDisaster: MrBallou: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Anchovy can opener.

Cheese boy.


Jizz mopper.
 
2012-12-30 04:57:32 PM

mr lawson: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that


That seems fairly unbelievable. Can you do that 50 weeks a year working a reasonable number of hours a week?
 
2012-12-30 04:59:23 PM

thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?


What are they paying you for this?
 
2012-12-30 05:03:16 PM

Jument: mr lawson: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that

That seems fairly unbelievable. Can you do that 50 weeks a year working a reasonable number of hours a week?


At Fort Bragg/Pope Air Force base I averaged 3 bucks a run tips, and could take 4-6 an hour. Average that to 5 and you get 15 an hour on top of my 7 an hour wage, that is 21 an hour. Back then the gas money really paid for gas and maintenance though unlike today..
 
2012-12-30 05:03:41 PM

thisisarepeat: Not true in the least. The reason for the policy is not for that individual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons then ALL robberies would likely use guns and/or deadly force.

Or they would choose a softer target, cops carry cash, but nobody robs them.


Some years ago, after a string of delivery driver robberies, the local police inserted an undercover cop into the delivery chain.

"Officer Steven Rutherford was shot and killed while working undercover disguised as a pizza delivery person, in anticipation of a robbery.

That night, several juveniles did rob him at gun point. As he was complying to their demands to lay on the ground, his jacket rose up and exposed his gun and one of the juveniles opened fire, striking him twice. Officer Rutherford got up and chased the juveniles approximately 200 yards and collapsed as his partner fired from the delivery vehicle. He was pronounced dead at the scene. The suspects were arrested a short time later."

The 18 year old who pulled the trigger got two life terms in prison plus eight years.

lewismarktwo: If you're going to rob a pizza driver and have access to a gun you would use the gun anyway. This is about keeping Pizza Hut's insurance low, not about the safety of the driver.


This.
 
2012-12-30 05:04:20 PM

thisisarepeat: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?

What are they paying you for this?


Right, because no one can have an independent thought outside of the hive mind without being paid for it, but nice logical fallacy.
 
2012-12-30 05:05:53 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: thisisarepeat: Not true in the least. The reason for the policy is not for that individual robber but for all robbers. If it got around that drivers carried weapons then ALL robberies would likely use guns and/or deadly force.

Or they would choose a softer target, cops carry cash, but nobody robs them.

Some years ago, after a string of delivery driver robberies, the local police inserted an undercover cop into the delivery chain.

"Officer Steven Rutherford was shot and killed while working undercover disguised as a pizza delivery person, in anticipation of a robbery.

That night, several juveniles did rob him at gun point. As he was complying to their demands to lay on the ground, his jacket rose up and exposed his gun and one of the juveniles opened fire, striking him twice. Officer Rutherford got up and chased the juveniles approximately 200 yards and collapsed as his partner fired from the delivery vehicle. He was pronounced dead at the scene. The suspects were arrested a short time later."

The 18 year old who pulled the trigger got two life terms in prison plus eight years.

lewismarktwo: If you're going to rob a pizza driver and have access to a gun you would use the gun anyway. This is about keeping Pizza Hut's insurance low, not about the safety of the driver.

This.


That is funny. Reread your statement. They did not shot till they saw he had a gun....Had they not see this there is a far better chance then not he would be alive today.
 
2012-12-30 05:12:27 PM

Jument: That seems fairly unbelievable. Can you do that 50 weeks a year working a reasonable number of hours a week?


My first delivery job (mid 80's Lousyana), we had a guy who did that as his primary and only job. Wife, kids, house, etc. He worked 4/5/6 days a week, maybe 2PM to midnight.
Yes, you can do it. But one of the issues is the vehicle. Your car can't be offline for service for any length of time.
 
2012-12-30 05:15:03 PM
Warmachine999:
It is. Pepsi tastes like sweetened swamp water. I prefer something with a little kick, and actual taste.

Wel, you are entiled to your own opinion, wrongheaded as it may be.

The only good product that Pepsi Co. makes is Mountain Dew, and even that is better with the real sugar version.

I absolutely love throwback Dew. I can't wait until that makes it into the giant cans MD is sold in now.

/Throwback Pepsi is awful, however.
 
2012-12-30 05:17:18 PM

thaylin: That is funny. Reread your statement


Funny? Reread?
I read it. I used to work for that chain.

The perps had the gun. It was an armed robbery to begin with, before they saw the gun.

So are you proposing that delivery drivers carry open, with a big sign on the car: "I HAVE A GUN. DO NOT TRY TO ROB ME".

/being young and dumb, they would try it anyway, just to steal the gun as well as the pizza+cash
 
2012-12-30 05:17:32 PM

Jument: mr lawson: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that

That seems fairly unbelievable. Can you do that 50 weeks a year working a reasonable number of hours a week?


It's not the hours that matter, it's the tips.

Some days, I barely broke even after paying for expenses. Other days, I came home with $600 for 4 hours of "work".

If you're in a good area, without a lot of very rich or very poor, you can make better money than a lot of "good" jobs out there. As long as you get a decent manager (indie shops are virtually always better than corporate/franchise), it's practically the best job you can find if you want a low-stress job with a decent earning potential.

I wouldn't recommend it as a career, but for someone between jobs it's better than waiting 6+ hours in the welfare office just to find out that you don't qualify since you have $500 over the limit in your bank account.
 
2012-12-30 05:18:55 PM
RINO: Typos and bolded text.


Wow, I failed pretty hard, there.
 
2012-12-30 05:20:10 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: That is funny. Reread your statement

Funny? Reread?
I read it. I used to work for that chain.

The perps had the gun. It was an armed robbery to begin with, before they saw the gun.

So are you proposing that delivery drivers carry open, with a big sign on the car: "I HAVE A GUN. DO NOT TRY TO ROB ME".

/being young and dumb, they would try it anyway, just to steal the gun as well as the pizza+cash


THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF ROBBING HIM AND LETTING HIM LIVE BEFORE THEY SAW THE GUN.

If they wanted him dead they would have shot him and took the cash to begin win, but they didnt until they saw the gun, PER YOUR OWN WORDS.
 
2012-12-30 05:30:55 PM

thaylin: THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF ROBBING HIM AND LETTING HIM LIVE BEFORE THEY SAW THE GUN.

If they wanted him dead they would have shot him and took the cash to begin win, but they didnt until they saw the gun, PER YOUR OWN WORDS.


It was already armed robbery. He was face down on the ground, with a gun aimed at him.
 
2012-12-30 05:31:44 PM
Don't know if it's been covered, but TFA doesn't even say they were robbing him. If they just attacked him, which there's a very good chance of being true since it was 5 teens and that's the kind of thing 5 teens would do, couldn't Pizza Hut be sued by the driver?

Telling someone they have to accept a beating is in no way legal.
 
2012-12-30 05:33:48 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF ROBBING HIM AND LETTING HIM LIVE BEFORE THEY SAW THE GUN.

If they wanted him dead they would have shot him and took the cash to begin win, but they didnt until they saw the gun, PER YOUR OWN WORDS.

It was already armed robbery. He was face down on the ground, with a gun aimed at him.


But they were allowing him to live.. That is the point, it was not a murder until they saw he was carrying a gun of his own. If he did not have it there would have been a good chance of him living...... How do you keep glossing over that...
 
2012-12-30 05:34:37 PM

JonPace: Don't know if it's been covered, but TFA doesn't even say they were robbing him. If they just attacked him, which there's a very good chance of being true since it was 5 teens and that's the kind of thing 5 teens would do, couldn't Pizza Hut be sued by the driver?

Telling someone they have to accept a beating is in no way legal.


No one said he had to accept a beating, just that he is not allowed to have a weapon him is car, or resist a robbery.
 
2012-12-30 05:41:01 PM
If I had to deliver pizza I'd certainly carry a blasterpiece.  How many times can you listen to biatching from some fat ass that they forgot the extra cheese or didn't put on enough pepperoni?  You just have to pop that cap.  I read where someone actually wanted them to bring back napkins.  At minimum that would have been a stabbin'.
 
2012-12-30 05:42:11 PM

thaylin: But they were allowing him to live.. That is the point, it was not a murder until they saw he was carrying a gun of his own. If he did not have it there would have been a good chance of him living...... How do you keep glossing over that...


I'm not glossing over that. I am saying that it was already an armed robbery, in a local string of armed robberies of pizza delivery drivers.
I'm not sure what your point is in relation to the overall discussion. During armed robberies, people have been shot, whether or not they had a weapon on them. Just because the armed robbers were idiots.
 
2012-12-30 05:44:45 PM

thaylin: No one said he had to accept a beating, just that he is not allowed to have a weapon stick him is car, or resist a robbery getting beaten.


Show us, in the linked article, where the word 'robbery' appears. I see 'attacked' and 'defend'. But not robbery.
 
2012-12-30 05:47:58 PM

thaylin: No one said he had to accept a beating, just that he is not allowed to have a weapon him is car, or resist a robbery.


Most cars have a lug wrench, which can easily be used as a weapon. Should a driver get fired for that as well? Or is this one of those "we just want a reason to fire you at any time" rules, so they always have a plausible excuse if the manager decides he doesn't like you anymore?
 
2012-12-30 05:49:11 PM

Recoil Therapy: The managers just want him to hand over the money & not do anything but hope that the thugs don't hurt him. If he were to hurt one of them then they (the robbers) might sue Pizza Hut because of emotional distress or some such nonsense. If he (the driver) were to get hurt himself, well worker's comp may go up a bit but he'd be easy to replace.

Sadly it is a very common thought process. In addition to delivery drivers, many (most?) corporate owned gas stations/convenience stores will fire their clerks if they use any sort of weapon to defend themselves in a robbery. It rarely makes waves here on Fark just because it IS so common.


Guy here in my state stopped a robbery (using a legally owned and carried firearm). Got fired from Walgreens for the same reason, since he violated the company's no-weapons policy.
 
2012-12-30 05:49:54 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: But they were allowing him to live.. That is the point, it was not a murder until they saw he was carrying a gun of his own. If he did not have it there would have been a good chance of him living...... How do you keep glossing over that...

I'm not glossing over that. I am saying that it was already an armed robbery, in a local string of armed robberies of pizza delivery drivers.
I'm not sure what your point is in relation to the overall discussion. During armed robberies, people have been shot, whether or not they had a weapon on them. Just because the armed robbers were idiots.


That is not guaranteed, however it is possible, however from your story they were letting him live UNTIL the saw the gun. The point is, as I have stated several times, that had he not had the gun there is a better chance then not that he would still be alive, just from your description of the events.

YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: No one said he had to accept a beating, just that he is not allowed to have a weapon stick him is car, or resist a robbery getting beaten.

Show us, in the linked article, where the word 'robbery' appears. I see 'attacked' and 'defend'. But not robbery.



An attack can mean just a hostile action, which a robbery is. That means that a robbery can be an attack. It does not say he was beaten.
 
2012-12-30 05:50:00 PM

thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?


Don't play dumb.

Risking the life of the driver by saying as an employee they have no right to defend themselves because they are worried about lawsuits doesn't factor into a policy that keeps a thief from putting more people at risk.
 
2012-12-30 05:51:17 PM

the ha ha guy: thaylin: No one said he had to accept a beating, just that he is not allowed to have a weapon him is car, or resist a robbery.

Most cars have a lug wrench, which can easily be used as a weapon. Should a driver get fired for that as well? Or is this one of those "we just want a reason to fire you at any time" rules, so they always have a plausible excuse if the manager decides he doesn't like you anymore?


If he used it as a weapon then yes.. If he had not used it as a weapon then it wasn't a weapon.
 
2012-12-30 05:52:20 PM

ideamaster: mgshamster: Once I transferred to another store in a lower-middle class area, my tip earnings skyrocketed.

with the inflated gas prices, what is a reasonable amount to tip these days? I mean it seems a little ridiculous to tip 10% of the price of pizza for delivery, it is sort of the same with carry-out. But I think it is good to tip something. What is an appropriate amount these days? (difference for city versus boonies)

enqui-farking minds want to know! It was so much simpler when gas was like $1-2/gallon.

i want to know so i can tip the dominos guy...




I have no idea anymore. My pizza delivery time was back in the 90s when I had just got out of high school. Nowadays, I usually give $5 for one or two pizzas, but I have no idea if that's good or bad these days.
 
2012-12-30 05:53:28 PM

liam76: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?

Don't play dumb.

Risking the life of the driver by saying as an employee they have no right to defend themselves because they are worried about lawsuits doesn't factor into a policy that keeps a thief from putting more people at risk.


I am not playing dumb, however you seem to be. No where in the article did it say he had no right to defend himself, that is a strawman. The policy is not there to prevent lawsuits from injuries to a thief, it is there to save the lives of the employees, so as to keep theft insurance low.
 
2012-12-30 05:57:21 PM

thaylin: The policy is not there to prevent lawsuits from injuries to a thief, it is there to save the lives of the employees, so as to keep theft insurance low.


YUM franchisees wouldn't even bother at that level to make a theft claim. Even on low end commercial policies the deductible for theft is usually at least $250-$500 so people won't report their register/driver getting knocked off but can stll get something if their safe is hit.
 
2012-12-30 05:58:54 PM

thaylin: If he used it as a weapon then yes.. If he had not used it as a weapon then it wasn't a weapon.


So if he used the hot bag to shield himself from the attackers, he should be fired for holding something that his employer required him to carry?
 
2012-12-30 05:59:05 PM

Ken VeryBigLiar: thaylin: The policy is not there to prevent lawsuits from injuries to a thief, it is there to save the lives of the employees, so as to keep theft insurance low.

YUM franchisees wouldn't even bother at that level to make a theft claim. Even on low end commercial policies the deductible for theft is usually at least $250-$500 so people won't report their register/driver getting knocked off but can stll get something if their safe is hit.


If the driver was killed the family would make the claim for Yum!
 
2012-12-30 06:01:51 PM

thaylin: You make several assumptions that are not in the article. No where did it say his life was in danger. Attacked can mean robbed just as easily as physically beaten. The policy is there to PREVENT the loss of human life, as by fighting back now the robbers know to bring more force and may just shoot first.. Your logic is VERY flawed.


was the delivery driver charged with assault? You are probably the same winey person that calls the cops when they see a person carrying a gun on their hip. Where they doing anything wrong? OMG call the cops.

Your logic is non-existant.  I wish fark could highlight in pink. Unfortunately yellow will have to work for you.
 
2012-12-30 06:02:27 PM

thaylin: If the driver was killed the family would make the claim for Yum!


No, it would be to the franchisee's LLC (or other corporate arrangement). They could try to file and Employment Practices lawsuit against them and YUM but usually all you get is some spare change in a settlement that doesn't even raise anyone's pulse at corporate.
 
2012-12-30 06:04:27 PM
Why would I call the cops over a gun, I grew up in the south, I believe fully in gun rights. What does if the driver was charged with any thing have to do with him violating corporate policy put in place to prevent him and other drivers from being killed. I am sorry but your logic, if you call it that is the one in doubt, not mine.
 
2012-12-30 06:05:36 PM

Ken VeryBigLiar: thaylin: If the driver was killed the family would make the claim for Yum!

No, it would be to the franchisee's LLC (or other corporate arrangement). They could try to file and Employment Practices lawsuit against them and YUM but usually all you get is some spare change in a settlement that doesn't even raise anyone's pulse at corporate.


you are assuming this is a franchise, like they have no corporate stores...Even still the settlement will come out of the insurance policy.
 
2012-12-30 06:10:06 PM

MrBallou: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Anchovy can opener.


I used to deliver for Papa Johns when I was in college at Texas A&M. If someone ordered anchovies on their pizza, they'd get one per slice. If they ordered anchovies on the side, and it was for delivery, they got an entire tin. My manager said it was because we couldn't transport unsealed raw food. I don't know if it was just a liability issue or if there's a law; but if you like anchovies give it a try because there were like 3 or 4 pizzas worth in one of those tins. Also, a tin of fish won't stink up your driver's car like a pizza with anchovy on it.
 
2012-12-30 06:12:47 PM

thaylin: That is not guaranteed, however it is possible, however from your story they were letting him live UNTIL the saw the gun. The point is, as I have stated several times, that had he not had the gun there is a better chance then not that he would still be alive, just from your description of the events.


Not my description, but rather the newspaper article of the undercover cop getting killed. For trying to prevent a string of armed robberies.

Back to the original issue:
Right now, I have a lug wrench in the cab of my truck. Should I be fired for 'carrying a weapon'? As this guy seems to have been fired for.
Should I be fired for using that lug wrench for defending myself if attacked by 5 persons?
 
2012-12-30 06:13:45 PM
You fully believe in gun rights, just not the right to use them (or anything other than your hands) or defend themselves. Now if that doesn't show some of the flaws in your logic, i will have to address you as Pointy Haired Boss.
 
2012-12-30 06:15:51 PM

thaylin: liam76: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?

Don't play dumb.

Risking the life of the driver by saying as an employee they have no right to defend themselves because they are worried about lawsuits doesn't factor into a policy that keeps a thief from putting more people at risk.

I am not playing dumb, however you seem to be. No where in the article did it say he had no right to defend himself, that is a strawman. The policy is not there to prevent lawsuits from injuries to a thief, it is there to save the lives of the employees, so as to keep theft insurance low.


So you aren't playing dumb, you are dumb.

If he was demoted for actions he took defending himself, they are saying as an employee he has no right to self defense. Only a moron would think that policy protects employees(not resisting a robbery isn't the same as not resisting an attack). Only a moron would think your gun scenario was related. In that case the driver was in no position to defend them self and letting the thief in the store would only increase risk to the other employees and the thief.
 
2012-12-30 06:17:57 PM

ideamaster: You fully believe in gun rights, just not the right to use them (or anything other than your hands) or defend themselves. Now if that doesn't show some of the flaws in your logic, i will have to address you as Pointy Haired Boss.


if it is a known policy that you are not allowed to use it as a weapon, then yes. You accepted the rules when you took the job, why would you not be held accoutable for breaking them..

That is like the people who joined the army in the time of peace then sued to get out because they did not want to be in a war.

Stop with the ad hominems, I fully believe int he rights to use them to defend myself, but if you use that right you have to be willing to accept the consquenses if it is against

YouPeopleAreCrazy: g wrench for defending myself if attacked by 5 persons?


your job to have that weapon in the first place, and for potentially putting the rest of your fellow workers in danager.
 
2012-12-30 06:19:47 PM

liam76: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?

Don't play dumb.

Risking the life of the driver by saying as an employee they have no right to defend themselves because they are worried about lawsuits doesn't factor into a policy that keeps a thief from putting more people at risk.

I am not playing dumb, however you seem to be. No where in the article did it say he had no right to defend himself, that is a strawman. The policy is not there to prevent lawsuits from injuries to a thief, it is there to save the lives of the employees, so as to keep theft insurance low.

So you aren't playing dumb, you are dumb.

If he was demoted for actions he took defending himself, they are saying as an employee he has no right to self defense. Only a moron would think that policy protects employees(not resisting a robbery isn't the same as not resisting an attack). Only a moron would think your gun scenario was related. In that case the driver was in no position to defend them self and letting the thief in the store would only increase risk to the other employees and the thief.


Again with the strawman. They fired him for having a weapon in the car, not defending himself.

My senerio is to show you that not all policy is there for theft insurance, some is there to protect the people. The fact you cant reason that shows who the dumb one is.
 
2012-12-30 06:20:37 PM

Recoil Therapy: The managers just want him to hand over the money & not do anything but hope that the thugs don't hurt him. If he were to hurt one of them then they (the robbers) might sue Pizza Hut because of emotional distress or some such nonsense. If he (the driver) were to get hurt himself, well worker's comp may go up a bit but he'd be easy to replace.

Sadly it is a very common thought process. In addition to delivery drivers, many (most?) corporate owned gas stations/convenience stores will fire their clerks if they use any sort of weapon to defend themselves in a robbery. It rarely makes waves here on Fark just because it IS so common.


Yep
Knew a guy who worked at a shell gas station-prevented a robbery-got fired
 
2012-12-30 06:29:11 PM

thaylin: That is like the people who joined the army in the time of peace then sued to get out because they did not want to be in a war.


thaylin: Again with the strawman.


I love it when people like you make up one set of rules for themselves and another set of rules for everyone else. It makes it easier to figure out the trolls (who usually put effort into their arguments) from the idiots.
 
2012-12-30 06:29:52 PM

thaylin: you are assuming this is a franchise, like they have no corporate stores...Even still the settlement will come out of the insurance policy.


If if it's owned by PEPSI/YUM they're deductibles are in the millions. It won't even rate at the policy level.

/Used to work on Pepsi GL/Auto/WC policies.
 
2012-12-30 06:32:32 PM

thaylin: liam76: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: liam76: thaylin: thisisarepeat: thaylin: farkingbubbler: Here's what I sent to their corporate email:

BS. The reason for the policy is so they can't get sued by injured thieves.


Really, so I guess not opening the door for a robber holding a driver at gun point, when no one in the store can open the safe, is to just protect from injured robbers as well, not to ensure the safety of the other employees?

Don't play dumb.

Risking the life of the driver by saying as an employee they have no right to defend themselves because they are worried about lawsuits doesn't factor into a policy that keeps a thief from putting more people at risk.

I am not playing dumb, however you seem to be. No where in the article did it say he had no right to defend himself, that is a strawman. The policy is not there to prevent lawsuits from injuries to a thief, it is there to save the lives of the employees, so as to keep theft insurance low.

So you aren't playing dumb, you are dumb.

If he was demoted for actions he took defending himself, they are saying as an employee he has no right to self defense. Only a moron would think that policy protects employees(not resisting a robbery isn't the same as not resisting an attack). Only a moron would think your gun scenario was related. In that case the driver was in no position to defend them self and letting the thief in the store would only increase risk to the other employees and the thief.

Again with the strawman. They fired him for having a weapon in the car, not defending himself.


I am going to try one more time, I doubt it will work as I think you are not interested in being honest (because I doubt anyone is really this dumb).

Do you think if his boss saw a tent stake in his car he would have been fired? I think every sane, and above dog stool person intelligent person could agree the answer is no. If you still think the answer is somehow "yes" then do you think a manager would fire someone for having a wrench or a jack (equally as dangerous and found in about every car in the US). So unless drivers are made to remove those items a tent stake is ok.

Now I am sure you are going to argue that once he used it to defend himself it became a weapon. Using that argument he could be fired for punching his attackers, since once he did that his hands were weapons and he was driving around with weapons.

So dance around it all you like he wasn't demoted for "having a weapon" he was demoted for defending himself. If you can make the weapon argument about the stake you can make it about his hands. If you are going to argue that the stake alone was considered a weapon then PIzza Hut would have to demote every driver with a jack, tire iron, or wrench in their car.

thaylin: My senerio is to show you that not all policy is there for theft insurance, some is there to protect the people. The fact you cant reason that shows who the dumb one is


I never said "all policy is there for theft insurance".

I am pointing to this policy which punished him for defending himself.

Every policy they have is about making money. That is it.
 
2012-12-30 06:34:16 PM

thisisarepeat: Its important to note that Pizza Hut doesn't own anything (TFA said it owned a few other fast food chains) Pepsi owns Pizza Hut and the other chains (why you cant get a farking Coke at any of those places). I will never purchase another Pepsi product from this point forward, and would urge others to boycott also. In light of this insanity, putting every last one of pepsi's share holders on the public dole is too good for them.


Pepsi doesn't own Pizza Hut.
 
2012-12-30 06:34:42 PM

liam76: Do you think if his boss saw a tent stake in his car he would have been fired? I think every sane, and above dog stool person intelligent level of intelligence person could agree the answer is no. If you still think the answer is somehow "yes" then do you think a manager would fire someone for having a wrench or a jack (equally as dangerous and found in about every car in the US). So unless drivers are made to remove those items a tent stake is ok.


I need to slow down on the pre-new years eve pre gaming...
 
2012-12-30 06:34:45 PM

kareninsf: Recoil Therapy: The managers just want him to hand over the money & not do anything but hope that the thugs don't hurt him. If he were to hurt one of them then they (the robbers) might sue Pizza Hut because of emotional distress or some such nonsense. If he (the driver) were to get hurt himself, well worker's comp may go up a bit but he'd be easy to replace.

Sadly it is a very common thought process. In addition to delivery drivers, many (most?) corporate owned gas stations/convenience stores will fire their clerks if they use any sort of weapon to defend themselves in a robbery. It rarely makes waves here on Fark just because it IS so common.

Yep
Knew a guy who worked at a shell gas station-prevented a robbery-got fired


the ha ha guy: thaylin: That is like the people who joined the army in the time of peace then sued to get out because they did not want to be in a war.

thaylin: Again with the strawman.

I love it when people like you make up one set of rules for themselves and another set of rules for everyone else. It makes it easier to figure out the trolls (who usually put effort into their arguments) from the idiots.


So you dont believe that joining an organization and agreeing to live by their policies, then not, is the same as joining another organization, agreeing to live by their policies and then not?
 
2012-12-30 06:35:47 PM

JonPace: thisisarepeat: Its important to note that Pizza Hut doesn't own anything (TFA said it owned a few other fast food chains) Pepsi owns Pizza Hut and the other chains (why you cant get a farking Coke at any of those places). I will never purchase another Pepsi product from this point forward, and would urge others to boycott also. In light of this insanity, putting every last one of pepsi's share holders on the public dole is too good for them.

Pepsi doesn't own Pizza Hut.


Not for the last 15 years.
 
2012-12-30 06:38:25 PM

thaylin: Stop with the ad hominems, I fully believe int he rights to use them to defend myself, but if you use that right you have to be willing to accept the consquenses if it is againstYouPeopleAreCrazy: g wrench for defending myself if attacked by 5 persons?

your job to have that weapon in the first place, and for potentially putting the rest of your fellow workers in danager.


If, in deciphering this mashup, I am correct....
"I fully believe int he rights to use them to defend myself, but if you use that right you have to be willing to accept the consquenses if it is against your job to have that weapon in the first place, and for potentially putting the rest of your fellow workers in danager."

He had a stick in his car. A lightweight, hollow aluminum tube. He wasn't carrying a weapon...he had a tentpole in his car.
He wasn't carrying a weapon to defend himself, he grabbed what was at had to defend himself when 5 people attacked him.

In your view, any object that he happened to grab to defend himself from 5 attackers would be a classed as a 'weapon', and therefore would be in violation of corporate policy.
So....whatever you do, do not defend yourself with anything. A stick, a pen you used to stab the attacked in the temple, a rock...anything is a weapon, and you will be fired for holding that in your hand. Allow yourself to succumb to whatever the perps want to do.

Because, otherwise, you had 'a weapon' and we will fire you.
 
2012-12-30 06:42:06 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: Stop with the ad hominems, I fully believe int he rights to use them to defend myself, but if you use that right you have to be willing to accept the consquenses if it is againstYouPeopleAreCrazy: g wrench for defending myself if attacked by 5 persons?

your job to have that weapon in the first place, and for potentially putting the rest of your fellow workers in danager.

If, in deciphering this mashup, I am correct....
"I fully believe int he rights to use them to defend myself, but if you use that right you have to be willing to accept the consquenses if it is against your job to have that weapon in the first place, and for potentially putting the rest of your fellow workers in danager."

He had a stick in his car. A lightweight, hollow aluminum tube. He wasn't carrying a weapon...he had a tentpole in his car.
He wasn't carrying a weapon to defend himself, he grabbed what was at had to defend himself when 5 people attacked him.

In your view, any object that he happened to grab to defend himself from 5 attackers would be a classed as a 'weapon', and therefore would be in violation of corporate policy.
So....whatever you do, do not defend yourself with anything. A stick, a pen you used to stab the attacked in the temple, a rock...anything is a weapon, and you will be fired for holding that in your hand. Allow yourself to succumb to whatever the perps want to do.

Because, otherwise, you had 'a weapon' and we will fire you.


Have you ever delivered pizza? When I did so a lot of of the drivers carried items that could be used as weapons just in case. Why was this part of a tent pole in the car, was it to be used as a weapon? No, how do you know this? You have a baseball bat in your car, is it a weapon? To some people yes to others no. In my view no, not everything in your car that can be used as a weapon is a weapon, but anything used as a weapon sure is a weapon.
 
2012-12-30 06:42:56 PM

thaylin: So you dont believe that joining an organization and agreeing to live by their policies, then not, is the same as joining another organization, agreeing to live by their policies and then not?


People do have a right to self defense. People do not have a right to never be called on to defend their country.
 
2012-12-30 06:47:31 PM

the ha ha guy: thaylin: So you dont believe that joining an organization and agreeing to live by their policies, then not, is the same as joining another organization, agreeing to live by their policies and then not?

People do have a right to self defense. People do not have a right to never be called on to defend their country.


Again with that strawman, that is not what he was fired for. In any case people have both rights actually, women do not have to sign up for selective service like men do, so they have that rightand you can give up your rights, which he did when he voluntarily agreed to those policies.
 
2012-12-30 06:52:11 PM

thaylin: Jument: mr lawson: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that

That seems fairly unbelievable. Can you do that 50 weeks a year working a reasonable number of hours a week?

At Fort Bragg/Pope Air Force base I averaged 3 bucks a run tips, and could take 4-6 an hour. Average that to 5 and you get 15 an hour on top of my 7 an hour wage, that is 21 an hour. Back then the gas money really paid for gas and maintenance though unlike today..


Whenever you ask sometime about what they make in tips they always exaggerate and use good days as their 'average'.

There's no way you're keeping that pace up for 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. You have a window of about 5pm-8pm that's very busy, but most of the day it can be pretty slow. It also tends to be much busier Friday/Saturday nights.

That and most delivery drivers don't work 40 hour weeks.
 
2012-12-30 06:55:19 PM

thaylin: Again with that strawman, that is not what he was fired for.


Without a "weapon", he would he unable to defend himself at all, and may very well have been killed.

So yes, he was demoted (not fired) for having a weapon, but his only alternative was to submit to the beating and hope to wake up in a hospital bed.

thaylin: you can give up your rights, which he did when he voluntarily agreed to those policies.


So you agree that he gave up his right to defend himself? Or are you referring to other rights that I never mentioned?
 
2012-12-30 06:59:04 PM

the ha ha guy: thaylin: Again with that strawman, that is not what he was fired for.

Without a "weapon", he would he unable to defend himself at all, and may very well have been killed.

So yes, he was demoted (not fired) for having a weapon, but his only alternative was to submit to the beating and hope to wake up in a hospital bed.


So no one ever defended themselves with their fists, nice to know...

the ha ha guy:
thaylin: you can give up your rights, which he did when he voluntarily agreed to those policies.

So you agree that he gave up his right to defend himself? Or are you referring to other rights that I never mentioned?


He gave up his rights to things I mentioned, his right to carry a weapon in his car.
 
2012-12-30 07:02:13 PM

JonPace: There's no way you're keeping that pace up for 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. You have a window of about 5pm-8pm that's very busy, but most of the day it can be prett


I was 18 at the time, worked the day shift for lunch. Most of my deliveries were to the baracks, or to the air force base's officer housing , both less then a mile away. The officers wives tipped the best on base and ordered regularly for lunch. I worked the night time rush.

When you deliver to a base everything is so close it is easy to get lots of deliveries in. There was also the option to buy discounted pies and take them to the back end of base and sell for a nice profit after the clubs closed.
 
2012-12-30 07:07:25 PM

JonPace: thaylin: Jument: mr lawson: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that

That seems fairly unbelievable. Can you do that 50 weeks a year working a reasonable number of hours a week?

At Fort Bragg/Pope Air Force base I averaged 3 bucks a run tips, and could take 4-6 an hour. Average that to 5 and you get 15 an hour on top of my 7 an hour wage, that is 21 an hour. Back then the gas money really paid for gas and maintenance though unlike today..

Whenever you ask sometime about what they make in tips they always exaggerate and use good days as their 'average'.

There's no way you're keeping that pace up for 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. You have a window of about 5pm-8pm that's very busy, but most of the day it can be pretty slow. It also tends to be much busier Friday/Saturday nights.

That and most delivery drivers don't work 40 hour weeks.


https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=domino's+pizza+near+Spring+Avenue, + Spring+Lake,+NC&daddr=ashely+street+fort+bragg&hl=en&ll=35.147477,-78. 960779&spn=0.015703,0.03165&sll=35.167404,-78.97394&sspn=0.00785,0.015 825&geocode=FaycGAIdDPRK-yHrdx-Y5rM_EintVXKJdWmriTHrdx-Y5rM_Eg%3BFXp_G AId4O1K-yndhgdJnWmriTEMUmiv0_X8Jw&mra=ls&t=m&z=16

That is to the officers housing. Then if you look further down Bragg blvd to the south east about another mile down you will see tones of barracks
 
2012-12-30 07:09:17 PM

thaylin: the ha ha guy: thaylin: So you dont believe that joining an organization and agreeing to live by their policies, then not, is the same as joining another organization, agreeing to live by their policies and then not?

People do have a right to self defense. People do not have a right to never be called on to defend their country.

Again with that strawman, that is not what he was fired for. In any case people have both rights actually, women do not have to sign up for selective service like men do, so they have that rightand you can give up your rights, which he did when he voluntarily agreed to those policies.


At this point everyone needs to just accept that this guy is successfully trolling you guys. No way is anybody really this stupid.

No job can enforce a policy that tells you not to defend yourself. It doesn't matter if it's a right to work state or not. Since the tent pole was completely acceptable until he chose to defend himself with it, that cannot be grounds for firing him.

Just like a job can't force you to accept sexual harassment.
 
2012-12-30 07:13:41 PM
I'll never eat Pizza Hut pizza again.

Not because of this incident, though. Just because it sucks. I haven't eaten it in at least five years. I just want to feel like one of the cool kids whose personal issues with a fast food company give meaning to his life.
 
2012-12-30 07:14:09 PM

JonPace: thaylin: the ha ha guy: thaylin: So you dont believe that joining an organization and agreeing to live by their policies, then not, is the same as joining another organization, agreeing to live by their policies and then not?

People do have a right to self defense. People do not have a right to never be called on to defend their country.

Again with that strawman, that is not what he was fired for. In any case people have both rights actually, women do not have to sign up for selective service like men do, so they have that rightand you can give up your rights, which he did when he voluntarily agreed to those policies.

At this point everyone needs to just accept that this guy is successfully trolling you guys. No way is anybody really this stupid.

No job can enforce a policy that tells you not to defend yourself. It doesn't matter if it's a right to work state or not. Since the tent pole was completely acceptable until he chose to defend himself with it, that cannot be grounds for firing him.

Just like a job can't force you to accept sexual harassment.


Dude, again, no one said you cant defend yourself, that is what you are making up. In addition, since you keep misconstruing what was used, it was not a tent pole, it was a piece of a tent pole.
 
2012-12-30 07:18:26 PM

thaylin: So no one ever defended themselves with their fists, nice to know...


Against five attackers who had likely set up the order as an ambush? It would take at least a level 4 ITG to walk away from that.

thaylin: He gave up his rights to things I mentioned, his right to carry a weapon in his car.


The item in question did not become a weapon until he used it as such. Therefore, he was punished for using a weapon, not merely owning one. And since it has already been established that defending himself with fists alone would likely have resulted in serious injury or death, it can reasonably be said that he gave up his right to defend himself against any sort of coordinated attack.
 
2012-12-30 07:19:57 PM

thaylin: Have you ever delivered pizza? When I did so a lot of of the drivers carried items that could be used as weapons just in case. Why was this part of a tent pole in the car, was it to be used as a weapon? No, how do you know this? You have a baseball bat in your car, is it a weapon? To some people yes to others no. In my view no, not everything in your car that can be used as a weapon is a weapon, but anything used as a weapon sure is a weapon.


Yes I did. Two cities (Shreveport and Newport News), prob 2.5 years total.
He was demoted (according to the article) for 'carrying a weapon'. I'm pretty sure if I wanted to carry anything as a weapon, it wouldn't be a tentpole.

If I grabbed the lug wrench, which is normally carried in the car, to use to defend myself when I am under actual attack...am I carrying a weapon?
Note: the lug wrench was not there as a weapon, but rather a normal tool in the car. I just happened to grab it to defend myself when the idiots attacked.
Having a tent pole in the car is not an unusual scenario.

/some people have a tent pole in the car, just because...
//if I just came off softball practice...am I carrying a weapon in the car?
///whatever...you can defend idiot Pizza Hut policies all you want. I'm gonna go make dinner
 
2012-12-30 07:22:47 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: Have you ever delivered pizza? When I did so a lot of of the drivers carried items that could be used as weapons just in case. Why was this part of a tent pole in the car, was it to be used as a weapon? No, how do you know this? You have a baseball bat in your car, is it a weapon? To some people yes to others no. In my view no, not everything in your car that can be used as a weapon is a weapon, but anything used as a weapon sure is a weapon.

Yes I did. Two cities (Shreveport and Newport News), prob 2.5 years total.
He was demoted (according to the article) for 'carrying a weapon'. I'm pretty sure if I wanted to carry anything as a weapon, it wouldn't be a tentpole.

If I grabbed the lug wrench, which is normally carried in the car, to use to defend myself when I am under actual attack...am I carrying a weapon?
Note: the lug wrench was not there as a weapon, but rather a normal tool in the car. I just happened to grab it to defend myself when the idiots attacked.
Having a tent pole in the car is not an unusual scenario.

/some people have a tent pole in the car, just because...
//if I just came off softball practice...am I carrying a weapon in the car?
///whatever...you can defend idiot Pizza Hut policies all you want. I'm gonna go make dinner


It was not a tent pole, it was a piece of a tent pole. Tent poles are made up of many pieces tied together with bungie. Since he had a peace it is safe to say it was broken. What reason is there to have a broken peice of a tent pole in the car other than as a weapon.
 
2012-12-30 07:25:18 PM

thaylin: Dude, again, no one said you cant defend yourself, that is what you are making up.


Ok. Let's say that you're facing an ambush of five thugs. How do you defend yourself without being seriously injured or killed?
Difficulty: Fists only, no kicking (judges have ruled that shoes are weapons), no grabbing the other guy's weapon (since at that point you can be fired for having a weapon), no getting into your car and driving away (a car is also considered a weapon).
 
2012-12-30 07:29:02 PM

the ha ha guy: thaylin: Dude, again, no one said you cant defend yourself, that is what you are making up.

Ok. Let's say that you're facing an ambush of five thugs. How do you defend yourself without being seriously injured or killed?
Difficulty: Fists only, no kicking (judges have ruled that shoes are weapons), no grabbing the other guy's weapon (since at that point you can be fired for having a weapon), no getting into your car and driving away (a car is also considered a weapon).


First, grabbing someones weapon is not the same as having a weapon in the car, which is what he was fired for. Second driving away is not using a car as a weapon unless he moves to run them over, any other idiotic rules you wanna make up?
 
2012-12-30 07:33:42 PM

Jument: mr lawson: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that

That seems fairly unbelievable. Can you do that 50 weeks a year working a reasonable number of hours a week?


it is the exception, not the rule. but yes,, working around 50 hr per week and in a good tipping delivery area it is possible. I know, i did it.
 
2012-12-30 07:36:17 PM

thaylin: First, grabbing someones weapon is not the same as having a weapon in the car, which is what he was fired for. Second driving away is not using a car as a weapon unless he moves to run them over, any other idiotic rules you wanna make up?


I'm not making up the rules, you are.

thaylin: So no one ever defended themselves with their fists, nice to know...


You say someone can defend against five attackers with only their fists. I'm only asking you to describe how that would be done.
 
2012-12-30 07:37:28 PM

thaylin: It was not a tent pole, it was a piece of a tent pole. Tent poles are made up of many pieces tied together with bungie. Since he had a peace it is safe to say it was broken. What reason is there to have a broken peice of a tent pole in the car other than as a weapon.


Um, no. Give me 45 seconds, and I can grab 'tent poles' that are not attached with bungie cords. They live in the shed, in the bag with the rest of the large tent.
Aluminum poles that fit together without benefit of bungies.

like these:
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-30 07:38:14 PM

the ha ha guy: thaylin: First, grabbing someones weapon is not the same as having a weapon in the car, which is what he was fired for. Second driving away is not using a car as a weapon unless he moves to run them over, any other idiotic rules you wanna make up?

I'm not making up the rules, you are.

thaylin: So no one ever defended themselves with their fists, nice to know...

You say someone can defend against five attackers with only their fists. I'm only asking you to describe how that would be done.


Difficulty: Fists only, no kicking (judges have ruled that shoes are weapons), no grabbing the other guy's weapon (since at that point you can be fired for having a weapon), no getting into your car and driving away (a car is also considered a weapon).

These are rules, which you made up.
 
2012-12-30 07:41:05 PM

thaylin: Tent poles are made up of many pieces tied together with bungie.


You be trollin'
 
2012-12-30 07:45:08 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: It was not a tent pole, it was a piece of a tent pole. Tent poles are made up of many pieces tied together with bungie. Since he had a peace it is safe to say it was broken. What reason is there to have a broken peice of a tent pole in the car other than as a weapon.

Um, no. Give me 45 seconds, and I can grab 'tent poles' that are not attached with bungie cords. They live in the shed, in the bag with the rest of the large tent.
Aluminum poles that fit together without benefit of bungies.

like these:
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 453x359]


And for what purpose would you have them in your car, while at work?
 
2012-12-30 07:46:36 PM

thaylin: YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: It was not a tent pole, it was a piece of a tent pole. Tent poles are made up of many pieces tied together with bungie. Since he had a peace it is safe to say it was broken. What reason is there to have a broken peice of a tent pole in the car other than as a weapon.

Um, no. Give me 45 seconds, and I can grab 'tent poles' that are not attached with bungie cords. They live in the shed, in the bag with the rest of the large tent.
Aluminum poles that fit together without benefit of bungies.

like these:
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 453x359]

And for what purpose would you have them in your car, while at work?


And that is not the type from the photo.
 
2012-12-30 07:54:23 PM

thaylin: These are rules, which you made up.


Throughout this thread, you are the one who has been saying "no weapons". I merely provided a list of what can, and has, been considered a weapon in similar circumstances.

Regardless, my question still stands. How would you, without using your own weapon, defend yourself against five attackers without ending up in the hospital or morgue?
 
2012-12-30 07:56:35 PM

the ha ha guy: thaylin: These are rules, which you made up.

Throughout this thread, you are the one who has been saying "no weapons". I merely provided a list of what can, and has, been considered a weapon in similar circumstances.

Regardless, my question still stands. How would you, without using your own weapon, defend yourself against five attackers without ending up in the hospital or morgue?


Still you failed to apply logic as to the "no weapon in the car" part. You made up stuff that does not break company policy..

In any addition find something on near by if you wanna get picky.
 
2012-12-30 07:57:16 PM

Amos Quito:


Everyone knows that the word "teens" (in the context of such an article) is a "code word" that almost always refers to strawberry blonde adolescent girls wearing My Little Pony sweat shirts and listening to Justin Bieber on their MP3 players.

Why not just come out and say so?



Sure, I'm fine with that...as long as we apply the rule equally.
 
2012-12-30 08:04:56 PM

thaylin: Still you failed to apply logic as to the "no weapon in the car" part. You made up stuff that does not break company policy..

In any addition find something on near by if you wanna get picky.


And you failed to apply logic as to the fact that he would have been seriously injured or killed had he not used the "weapon". Yet at the same time you claim that the "no weapons" policy is to protect the employees from injury or death.

But that wasn't my question, I was only asking you to elaborate on your claim that one unarmed man can fight off five attackers with only his fists.
 
2012-12-30 08:11:32 PM

thaylin: And for what purpose would you have them in your car, while at work?


Because I don't completely empty the car before each and every shift. Just stuff that happens to be in there.

You said:
"Tent poles are made up of many pieces tied together with bungie."

That is patently and demonstrably false.
 
2012-12-30 08:14:19 PM

the ha ha guy: thaylin: Still you failed to apply logic as to the "no weapon in the car" part. You made up stuff that does not break company policy..

In any addition find something on near by if you wanna get picky.

And you failed to apply logic as to the fact that he would have been seriously injured or killed had he not used the "weapon". Yet at the same time you claim that the "no weapons" policy is to protect the employees from injury or death.

That is not logic, that is assumption, major difference.

But that wasn't my question, I was only asking you to elaborate on your claim that one unarmed man can fight off five attackers with only his fists.


By taking fist and applying liberally to face.
 
2012-12-30 08:23:14 PM

thaylin: That is not logic, that is assumption, major difference.


I know firsthand that being attacked by two can put someone in ICU. Yet you claim that this guy would be able to walk away from five, using only his fists.

thaylin: By taking fist and applying liberally to face.


In other words, you're just an ITG and have never defended yourself against anything worse than a stray cat...
 
2012-12-30 08:24:02 PM

thaylin: By taking fist and applying liberally to face.


You have 5 fists and can deploy them simultaneously? Against people potentially both larger/stronger than you, and smaller/faster than you.
Impressive ITG skillz.
 
2012-12-30 08:26:11 PM

the ha ha guy: thaylin: That is not logic, that is assumption, major difference.

I know firsthand that being attacked by two can put someone in ICU. Yet you claim that this guy would be able to walk away from five, using only his fists.

Five guys was able to be taken down by one guy, with what you claim to be nothing more than a thin flimsy piece of metal. Either this was the makings for a hollywood kung fu movie, or they were wusses

thaylin: By taking fist and applying liberally to face.

In other words, you're just an ITG and have never defended yourself against anything worse than a stray cat...


you can assume all you want..
 
2012-12-30 08:32:51 PM

MrBallou: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Anchovy can opener.


The dominos in my town doesn't stock anchovies anymore. Lame
 
2012-12-30 08:34:43 PM

thaylin: Five guys was able to be taken down by one guy, with what you claim to be nothing more than a thin flimsy piece of metal.


I claimed nothing about the weapon itself, I was only asking you to elaborate on your claim.

If you're going to argue, at least keep your facts straight.
 
2012-12-30 08:37:03 PM

thaylin: Five guys was able to be taken down by one guy, with what you claim to be nothing more than a thin flimsy piece of metal. Either this was the makings for a hollywood kung fu movie, or they were wusses


Where does it say 'taken down'? Scared off, maybe, when shown something other than a fist.
Yes...wussies, as is typical.
 
2012-12-30 08:40:24 PM

the ha ha guy: thaylin: Five guys was able to be taken down by one guy, with what you claim to be nothing more than a thin flimsy piece of metal.

I claimed nothing about the weapon itself, I was only asking you to elaborate on your claim.

If you're going to argue, at least keep your facts straight.


So you agree it was a weapon, glad you finally came around. And it may have been someone else, however it has been asserted that is what it was.
 
2012-12-30 08:41:00 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: it say 'taken down'? Scared off, maybe, when shown something other than a fist.
Yes...wussies, as is typical.


YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: Five guys was able to be taken down by one guy, with what you claim to be nothing more than a thin flimsy piece of metal. Either this was the makings for a hollywood kung fu movie, or they were wusses

Where does it say 'taken down'? Scared off, maybe, when shown something other than a fist.
Yes...wussies, as is typical.


Take down as in scared them off. If he could do it with that, he could have done it with his fists.
 
2012-12-30 08:51:54 PM

JonZoidberg: MrBallou: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Anchovy can opener.

I used to deliver for Papa Johns when I was in college at Texas A&M. If someone ordered anchovies on their pizza, they'd get one per slice. If they ordered anchovies on the side, and it was for delivery, they got an entire tin. My manager said it was because we couldn't transport unsealed raw food. I don't know if it was just a liability issue or if there's a law; but if you like anchovies give it a try because there were like 3 or 4 pizzas worth in one of those tins. Also, a tin of fish won't stink up your driver's car like a pizza with anchovy on it.


canned anchovies arent raw, and it that WAS a law, the Schwann man would be serving consecutive life sentences. All that being said its a good policy. When I worked at Pizza Hut in the mid 90's I made one anchovy pizza in the six months I was there, so they don't exactly fly off the shelf. I put the whole can on there.
 
2012-12-30 08:56:17 PM

thaylin: Take down as in scared them off. If he could do it with that, he could have done it with his fists.


o_O
Stop changing precepts and definitions.

/sorry guys...I'm done feeding the troll
 
2012-12-30 08:57:29 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: Take down as in scared them off. If he could do it with that, he could have done it with his fists.


Stop changing precepts and definitions.



Why you have been doing it the entire time
 
2012-12-30 09:11:23 PM

thaylin: So you agree it was a weapon, glad you finally came around.


Did I ever deny that it was used as a weapon? I only argued that everything can be called a weapon, I didn't deny that the tent pole was used as one.

Don't claim victories over nonexistent fights, you only make yourself look even more foolish.
 
2012-12-30 09:12:14 PM
Pizza Hut corporate policy has for a long time clearly stated that anyone delivering food cannot carry or use anything that can be construed as a weapon. No guns, knives, bats, tire irons in your back seat, crowbars in your back seat, no tent poles, etc.... This is the same with other corporate chains like Dominoes and Papa Johns.

This policy is supposed to be reviewed with all driving staff when they are hired and reviewed periodically at staff meetings. There is a sign off that says you were told this.

Managers are not exempt from this policy and can be fired for it. The management can be fired for not enforcing it too.

The true reason for this policy comes down to corporate liability. Our farked up legal system can in some cases allow for an alleged assailant to turn around and sue the victim... making shiat up, driver said this, they said that, blows were made. Pizza Hut being a LARGE company has deep pockets and makes a frequent target for lawsuits versus a small mom n pop pizza joints which are less attractive legal targets.

My take based on the article; the driver was not fired but could have been. He was just taken off the road. The 'demote' is nonsense; drivers and cooks are the same level. His hours were cut probably because they had enough in house staff and are making do to fit him in. It will probably remain this way until a thorough investigation is done. He could possibly drive again at some point.

Management is probably sweating it out. They should be aware of their drivers habits. There may be some local safety practices that were not executing properly.

When confronted with a robbery they are supposed to give up the pizzas and the money (which should only be about $25 or so). Obviously this situation sounds different.

\former (corporate) Pizza Hut General Manager
 
2012-12-30 09:14:41 PM

Jake Havechek: I was a pizza guy for 3 years. Rich people and teenagers are the worst tippers.

Plus the jerks who send their farking 5 year old to pay you so you have to count out the change to the last penny and give it to the little shiat.


I had someone do that to me, but he was hiding behind the door prompting the kid on how to properly pay for a pizza and give a tip. That was one of my favorite houses to deliver to.
 
2012-12-30 09:21:07 PM

TheManofPA: Pizza Hut is messed up with their delivery rules.  Basically, you need more than 20 dollars on you when you make deliveries in some cases....but if you get robbed and had more than 20 bucks on you, you can get fired because drivers aren't supposed to have more than 20 bucks on them.

I remember there was one place we delivered where a there had been 2 or 3 robberies AND then driver got stabbed (we had the inner city route). PH decided not to drop that location despite no tips/always dangerous but allowed the driver who got stabbed to always skip those so someone else had to take it.


When I was a delivery driver, there would often be customers who'd want to pay with a $100 bill. Sometimes they'd surprise me at the door with it and I'd shrug and say "Sorry, I don't carry that kind of cash. It's a safety thing.". Towards the end of my tenure, it seemed that they'd tell the order taker ahead of time that they'd be paying with a C-note and add a little note that I should take change for that. After having a childhood friend killed while delivering pizza and having some co-workers get robbed, I wasn't having any of that. The rules clearly forbade that sort of thing. Eventually someone got fired for violating it.
 
2012-12-30 09:21:11 PM

mahkno: The 'demote' is nonsense; drivers and cooks are the same level.


Drivers make tips and are on the road throughout their shift. Cooks make minimum wage, and when they aren't cooking, they're washing dishes, mopping the floor, cleaning the toilet, etc.

Somehow, I don't think "$15/hour driver" is the same level as "$7/hr toilet scrubber".
 
2012-12-30 09:41:06 PM

ideamaster: mgshamster: Once I transferred to another store in a lower-middle class area, my tip earnings skyrocketed.

with the inflated gas prices, what is a reasonable amount to tip these days? I mean it seems a little ridiculous to tip 10% of the price of pizza for delivery, it is sort of the same with carry-out. But I think it is good to tip something. What is an appropriate amount these days? (difference for city versus boonies)

enqui-farking minds want to know! It was so much simpler when gas was like $1-2/gallon.

i want to know so i can tip the dominos guy...


Fifteen percent of the total rounded up to the nearest dollar is good.
 
2012-12-30 09:41:49 PM

the ha ha guy: mahkno: The 'demote' is nonsense; drivers and cooks are the same level.

Drivers make tips and are on the road throughout their shift. Cooks make minimum wage, and when they aren't cooking, they're washing dishes, mopping the floor, cleaning the toilet, etc.

Somehow, I don't think "$15/hour driver" is the same level as "$7/hr toilet scrubber".



How much you get paid an hour doesn't determine your 'rank'. If it did, they would have all been my supervisor. In my store and in the other stores in my area, all drivers were trained as cooks and expected to fill in, in-house as needed. We had few in-house only folks. It wasn't unusual on some nights to only have management in the store and drivers on the road.

As few drivers actually claim their tips; to Pizza Hut and the public (read IRS), they make the same as the cooks. If someone wants to claim otherwise in a court of law, to insurance etc... there could be unintended consequences for the driver. You have to prove it.
 
2012-12-30 09:46:12 PM

thaylin: YouPeopleAreCrazy: thaylin: THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF ROBBING HIM AND LETTING HIM LIVE BEFORE THEY SAW THE GUN.

If they wanted him dead they would have shot him and took the cash to begin win, but they didnt until they saw the gun, PER YOUR OWN WORDS.

It was already armed robbery. He was face down on the ground, with a gun aimed at him.

But they were allowing him to live.. That is the point, it was not a murder until they saw he was carrying a gun of his own. If he did not have it there would have been a good chance of him living...... How do you keep glossing over that...


How do you know that the robber would not have shot had the cop not had a gun on him?
 
2012-12-30 10:01:14 PM

mahkno: How much you get paid an hour doesn't determine your 'rank'. If it did, they would have all been my supervisor.


If a teacher is made a janitor, is that a demotion? Since the janitors don't answer to teachers, it wouldn't be a demotion in the chain of command, but I'm sure the teacher wouldn't consider the jobs to be the same level.

mahkno: In my store and in the other stores in my area, all drivers were trained as cooks and expected to fill in, in-house as needed.


So the drivers were paid full minimum wage when in the store, or were the tips from the rest of their shift expected to make up the difference?

My store (a Domino's franchise) tried making the drivers work in the store a few days a week, while only paying the $3 tipped wage. After a few anonymous calls to the DOL, the owner decided not to go through with that plan.
 
2012-12-30 10:14:48 PM

the ha ha guy: mahkno: How much you get paid an hour doesn't determine your 'rank'. If it did, they would have all been my supervisor.

If a teacher is made a janitor, is that a demotion? Since the janitors don't answer to teachers, it wouldn't be a demotion in the chain of command, but I'm sure the teacher wouldn't consider the jobs to be the same level.

mahkno: In my store and in the other stores in my area, all drivers were trained as cooks and expected to fill in, in-house as needed.

So the drivers were paid full minimum wage when in the store, or were the tips from the rest of their shift expected to make up the difference?

My store (a Domino's franchise) tried making the drivers work in the store a few days a week, while only paying the $3 tipped wage. After a few anonymous calls to the DOL, the owner decided not to go through with that plan.


When I was managing/working at Pizza Hut, there was no distinction in the system, in payroll, between cooks, drivers, phone people, and even waitresses; they were all 'Crew'. Drivers didn't get a 'tipped wage'. They earned the same base pay a cook did. Only wait staff (if the store had any) got a 'tipped wage' and only when they were waiting on tables. If a wait person were to cook or go out on the road, they got bumped to the normal base pay rate.

If any drivers are earning the lower 'tipped wage' they are being hosed.
 
2012-12-30 10:38:56 PM

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: This is the company that fired me (and other drivers) right before reaching 200 Accident Free Hours driving. At the time, anyway, the 200 AFH mark was supposed to earn a raise. They couldn't have that, so....


Um, no. I worked for PH for many, many years (until I snapped and quit because the manager - a 20 year old with no previous management experience - was an a-hole who couldn't get a suite number or business name when taking phone orders for the local outlet mall with over 100 stores) and had several thousand AFH (please don't do math on that) - I might still have the pins in a box somewhere. Minimum wage had gone up while I was working there, so I was making minimum wage, again. AFH had nothing to do with raises.

Moonfisher: spawn73: cherryl taggart: spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

The backseat of my car is the repository of all things kid-related. If my kid was super active in scouting, I would probably be able to find most of the parts of a tent back there. And if, I drive up to an intersection and an incident of attempted thuggery were to occur, I most definitely would be able to improvise a weapon out of the debris in my car. And my standard response to any question is "I panicked, because I was in fear of my life. I didn't know that a (insert noun here) could do that much damage to a person."

I'm not from USA, so not too familiar with Pizza Hut.

I thought they drove around in a Pizza Hut car? If it's their own car, then yes it seems plausible that there's a lot of stuff there that could be used as a weapon, even though it wasn't why it was placed there.

That explanation sounds plausible, because if you're going to drive around with a weapon, you would probably do better than a tentpole.

They make you drive your own car and just slap a Pizza Hut sign on top. You have to provide your own gas, insurance, and maintenance. They used to give drivers one dollar per delivery to offset the cost (lol) and then you keep your meager tips and get min wage hourly pay.


$1.00? Try again. $0.50 (bumped to $0.60 when gas initially went above $2.00/gallon, back in early 2000s). I doubled my hourly minimum wage with tips and trip fees. As noted by a few others, the best tips came from middle class people. Teens and rich people tipped the worst.

I always carried an 18" steel pipe under my front seat. Never had to use it.

Good minimum tip for a pizza guy? 10% or $2.00, whichever is greater. I always tip $5.00, minimum.
 
2012-12-31 12:16:26 AM

thecactusman17: This is why anybody delivering pizza should carry one of these:

[images.knifecenter.com image 800x800]

/"We don't allow weapons for our drivers."
//"No problem. I only bring a flashlight with me on my deliveries."


I've got this one.

uncrate.com
 
2012-12-31 12:56:33 AM

mahkno: When confronted with a robbery they are supposed to give up the pizzas and the money (which should only be about $25 or so). Obviously this situation sounds different.

\former (corporate) Pizza Hut General Manager


What was the policy about self-defense, if you were not being robbed but "merely" attacked?
 
2012-12-31 01:10:25 AM

splorp!: Good minimum tip for a pizza guy? 10% or $2.00, whichever is greater. I always tip $5.00, minimum.


I tip depending on service:
Within the promised time? $2-$4
Really quick? $5+
Cold and late? $0
Call me and say "I can't find your house" (Porch light on, numbers lit up, the street is 6 houses long) I walk outside...'are you driving a red Honda? .I can see you...turn around' $0

Good service does count.
 
2012-12-31 01:38:00 AM

thaylin: Why you have been doing it the entire time


thaylin - please allow me the honor of putting this bluntly. You are a clueless idiot that only believes they are smart (or a phenomenal troll).

For anyone that agrees with me feel free to just quote it and say "this". And for anyone that disagree with me, feel free to quote it and say "I object"

Thaylin, by all means keep digging, it is hilarious to watch you make a fool of yourself and you don't even know it.
 
2012-12-31 02:48:22 AM
i haven't eaten it in at least ten years, because i enjoy food, but from what i remember pizza hut is pretty disgusting anyways.
 
2012-12-31 03:18:07 AM
Too bad he didn't slam one of the attackers' hands in the car door. Not that it would have helped the situation, but it would have been interesting to see people do mental gymnastics about whether delivery drivers should be able to use cars to deliver since the car itself could be used as a weapon.
 
2012-12-31 04:00:33 AM

spawn73:

People usually don't end up dead if they just comply with the people robbing them.


That's true much of the time. But sometimes the thugs want more than just "pizza and the contents of your change bag," especially if you are female or have some nice electronics in the car, etc.
 
2012-12-31 04:54:49 AM

splorp!: Dumb-Ass-Monkey: This is the company that fired me (and other drivers) right before reaching 200 Accident Free Hours driving. At the time, anyway, the 200 AFH mark was supposed to earn a raise. They couldn't have that, so....

Um, no. I worked for PH for many, many years (until I snapped and quit because the manager - a 20 year old with no previous management experience - was an a-hole who couldn't get a suite number or business name when taking phone orders for the local outlet mall with over 100 stores) and had several thousand AFH (please don't do math on that) - I might still have the pins in a box somewhere. Minimum wage had gone up while I was working there, so I was making minimum wage, again. AFH had nothing to do with raises.

Moonfisher: spawn73: cherryl taggart: spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

The backseat of my car is the repository of all things kid-related. If my kid was super active in scouting, I would probably be able to find most of the parts of a tent back there. And if, I drive up to an intersection and an incident of attempted thuggery were to occur, I most definitely would be able to improvise a weapon out of the debris in my car. And my standard response to any question is "I panicked, because I was in fear of my life. I didn't know that a (insert noun here) could do that much damage to a person."

I'm not from USA, so not too familiar with Pizza Hut.

I thought they drove around in a Pizza Hut car? If it's their own car, then yes it seems plausible that there's a lot of stuff there that could be used as a weapon, even though it wasn't why it was placed there.

That explanation sounds plausible, because if you're going to drive around with a weapon, you would probably do better than a tentpole.

They make you drive your own car and just slap a Pizza Hut sign on top. You have to provide your own gas, insurance, and maintenance. They used to give drivers one dollar per delivery to offset the cost (lol) and then you keep your meager tips and get min wage hourly pay.

$1.00? Try again. $0.50 (bumped to $0.60 when gas initially went above $2.00/gallon, back in early 2000s). I doubled my hourly minimum wage with tips and trip fees. As noted by a few others, the best tips came from middle class people. Teens and rich people tipped the worst.

I always carried an 18" steel pipe under my front seat. Never had to use it.

Good minimum tip for a pizza guy? 10% or $2.00, whichever is greater. I always tip $5.00, minimum.


No need to try again. They paid a dollar per delivery at our store. It may have been because we live in a high cost of living area. It was about 6 years ago. Either way, it's paltry and shameful.
 
2012-12-31 05:11:35 AM

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: This is the company that fired me (and other drivers) right before reaching 200 Accident Free Hours driving. At the time, anyway, the 200 AFH mark was supposed to earn a raise. They couldn't have that, so....


I'd love to work in the US - fuked over by mega-corps, no job security, healthcare or bonuses, whilst the execs lives the life of the 1%
 
2012-12-31 10:15:33 AM
I've had camping gear in my car many times; usually packing early for a weekend trip, so I could get on the road sooner, or unpacking days later because I was tired after a trip, and I could easily see a tent pole part sitting in a car a while. From the pictures, that sort of pole would be a very, very poor weapon - aluminum and fiberglass and fairly light, and I'd certainly not carry one as a weapon on purpose. There are many things usually in a car which would be better.

However.... then I got to some other articles that said a coworker had been held at gunpoint recently in that neighborhood, and so the driver hid the tentpole in his sleeve while going to the house. It sucks, but right there I could definitely see it breaking the rules - that's not a momentary weapon of convenience (which could hardly be avoided unless you said no self defense and utterly clean cars - one would likely even use keys in a momentary reaction). He put the pole in his sleeve specifically in case of something like that. Then, he was sucker punched, lost his glasses, dropped the pizza, covered his face with one arm and started flailing the pole around with the other before 'escaping'. It doesn't seem particularly effective had the situation been more serious, and could have ended worse than it did (the attackers got no money, and of the five three 13-14 year olds were caught). Hopefully the restaurant has dropped that street from their deliveries though. This guy is probably better off not running deliveries though, and Pizza Hut could have problems if they ignored him habitually carrying the pole around. It's not quite the same as JUST the momentary defense. Keeping him on in the kitchen may have been about the best the manager could do at that point.

tent pole fighting stance:
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-31 10:41:08 AM
The more I look at that picture.... he was expecting robbers with guns and that was his reaction? That seems like a pretty poor plan; and he's probably lucky. This just seems like it has potential for ending up much worse later...
It also mentions that he says he asked the manager to let him keep a "lower profile" as he was scared... and then on Pizza Hut's facebook:

Pizza Hut Dana, we have policies in place to best protect our drivers and team members across the country. Despite what has been reported, we never demoted or reduced the hours of this driver. While the investigation was ongoing and at his request, he was moved in restaurant. Temporarily. We will continue to handle the incident with the safety of everyone involved as priority No. 1. Thank you.

The kitchen staff do get paid less and the work sucks. That's why people are always fighting for the driver positions here. If he wanted out of driving, which is understandable, then he can't really expect to keep getting the same as he earned in tips. Perhaps it's better for everyone if he finds something else, and good luck to him in that. This doesn't seem to be quite as one sided as the initial article, as bad as it initially sounded. I think if they'd really wanted to deal with it harshly, he'd be fired - people lose those jobs at the drop of a hat. It sounds like they're probably trying to work with him, even though it isn't to his liking.
 
2012-12-31 02:05:40 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: splorp!: Good minimum tip for a pizza guy? 10% or $2.00, whichever is greater. I always tip $5.00, minimum.

I tip depending on service:
Within the promised time? $2-$4
Really quick? $5+
Cold and late? $0
Call me and say "I can't find your house" (Porch light on, numbers lit up, the street is 6 houses long) I walk outside...'are you driving a red Honda? .I can see you...turn around' $0

Good service does count.


There was only one time I wasn't able to find someone's house, and it was due to poor street design.  The street in question actually didn't go all the way through.  Now that I'm trying to explain it, it's kind of difficult to come up with the right words.  Basically, the street was disconnected by a huge park.  It really should have been two streets, but the city decided they were the same street.  I went down the wrong side, and got to the end of the street and couldn't find the house.  The customer was extremely irritated (rightfully so) because she didn't realize that there was a whole different road that had an identical name.

You know what? I'll just post an image from google maps.  Here you go:

s8.postimage.org

And no, the two streets don't connect in any way.
 
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