If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Digital Spy)   Christopher Nolan says that adapting Superman is more difficult than adapting Batman, presumably because Superman is so damned boring   (digitalspy.com) divider line 216
    More: Obvious, Man of Steel, Dark Knight, Superman, Batman, Michael Caine, John McClane, Christian Bale, Zack Snyder  
•       •       •

3413 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 29 Dec 2012 at 4:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



216 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-12-30 06:15:40 AM

i382.photobucket.com


media.screened.com



Are there any character that attack his mind? Braniac "out-thinks" him, but when the body is invulnerable, hit him in the thoughts.
 
2012-12-30 06:27:30 AM

WippitGuud: [i382.photobucket.com image 850x359]


[media.screened.com image 649x320]


Are there any character that attack his mind? Braniac "out-thinks" him, but when the body is invulnerable, hit him in the thoughts.


It's happened now and again, but much like Captain America has trained a great many of the Avengers in hand to hand combat, the Martian Manhunter has trained much of the JLA in telepath protection. But to answer directly, no, Superman has no arch-telepath-foe. He's had villains fark with his mind, Dominus, I suppose.

As long as we're on Superman, a)fark the new 52, and b)i've always been disappointed that it was never addressed that the superman that doomsday killed, the superman for a good half of the post-crisis run, wasn't really superman at all.
 
2012-12-30 06:33:28 AM

robohobo: WippitGuud: [i382.photobucket.com image 850x359]


[media.screened.com image 649x320]


Are there any character that attack his mind? Braniac "out-thinks" him, but when the body is invulnerable, hit him in the thoughts.

It's happened now and again, but much like Captain America has trained a great many of the Avengers in hand to hand combat, the Martian Manhunter has trained much of the JLA in telepath protection. But to answer directly, no, Superman has no arch-telepath-foe. He's had villains fark with his mind, Dominus, I suppose.

As long as we're on Superman, a)fark the new 52, and b)i've always been disappointed that it was never addressed that the superman that doomsday killed, the superman for a good half of the post-crisis run, wasn't really superman at all.


Also The Key did a serious number on the league back in the mid-90's. That was a great story, actually. It was early in Morrison's run.

/"Nintendo has a lot to answer for. If you were antimatter, you and I would be exploding right now."
 
2012-12-30 06:35:05 AM

robohobo:
It's happened now and again, but much like Captain America has trained a great many of the Avengers in hand to hand combat, the Martian Manhunter has trained much of the JLA in telepath protection. But to answer directly, no, Superman has no arch-telepath-foe. He's had villains fark with his mind, Dominus, I suppose.



Well, if I were to write a trilogy here... and ignore anyone from JLA and keep it strictly Superman.

Movie 1: Origin, typical Superman, but introduce telepath near the end.
Movie 2: 1/2 hour in, telepath starts to exert dominance on Superman. At the end of the movie, Superman is broken and works for telepath
Movie 3: World War Superman, and for the sake of the character he manages to break free and do the righteous win. But of course nobody trusts him anymore...
 
2012-12-30 06:41:24 AM
I think what they mean is it's difficult adapting Superman as an entertaining blockbuster Hollywood movie. With over powered characters the best story lines are when they focus on everyone else but that character and just have them in the background like a force of nature. Obviously that could never be done on film, if the movie is called Superman then it better be about Superman smashing stuff.
 
2012-12-30 06:43:20 AM
i.imgur.com

THIS THREAD ARE TEH WINZ!!!!
 
2012-12-30 07:04:24 AM

WippitGuud: robohobo:

Well, if I were to write a trilogy here... and ignore anyone from JLA and keep it strictly Superman.

Movie 1: Origin, typical Superman, but introduce telepath near the end.

etc etc etc

No no no no no....

OPENING SHOT:

Giant Red Planet
floats into view firing lasers at Morbidly Obese American Internet Fan, himself the size of a planet.

The Giant "Hammer and Sickle" logo seems to make up the geography of this planet.

Just then, a sexually ambiguous man in tights with a flowing red gown..er..flowing red cape speeds into view between the giant Orca of a Comic Kid and pushes a giant homoerotic assteroid into the path of the communist bastard planet thus destroying it completely.

The Sexually Ambiguous Man In A Flowing Cape says;
"Don't worry Morbidly Obese American Internet Fan, you won't be wearing any of those crappy Commie Knockoffs and eating Dogs from the land of the hated Chinee! We won the cold war!"

Morbidly Obese American Internet Fan says;
"Gee thanks American Icon Of Imperialist Superiority! My Pants are feeling really tight right now!"

etc etc etc

--------

I love these fan threads more than the Twyhard / Twy Little Pony Erotica threads on the newsgroups...

this stuff sure warms up my adult diaper...

"if i had things my way I'd...."

if we had things your way internet fan, we'd all be jobless and obese socially awkward morons and the species would die out because no one would ever get laid.

you don't have things your way for a reason... and trudging through the waste of grey matter on these fan threads, it becomes painfully obvious why...

a little tip.

no one cares what you think, so just get in the seat with your popcorn and stfu like everyone else...

Cheers!

Haliburton

/Mountain Du
//Husker Du
///Cheetos smothered in gravy.

 
2012-12-30 07:24:37 AM
does Superman help MOAIF use the toilet
 
2012-12-30 07:25:11 AM

Haliburton Cummings: no one cares what you think, so just get in the seat with your popcorn and stfu like everyone else...


2/10... nobody care what you think either :)
 
2012-12-30 08:12:54 AM
I just watched Dark Knight Rises last night and I was bored to tears.

Admittedly I'm not a Batman fan, but Dark Knight was at least somewhat enjoyable.
Rises was a muddled, boring mess.

/and I'm not a hater. I liked Begins AND Burton's films. I wanted to like it. It was just boring and felt like snippets glued together into one movie.
 
2012-12-30 08:26:24 AM

Mentat: Superman is not boring, Superman is not lame, it just requires a certain degree of talent to write for that type of character that most comics writers don't have.


Superman is unsustainable as a character over long periods of time.

That is why he is boring.
 
2012-12-30 08:28:39 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: It is hard to come up with a plausible antagonist when the protagonist can:
A: Move so fast he can draw spewing dongs over the bad guy's face before the bad guy can even start his "I'm going to take over the world" speech.
B: Go back in time and give the bad guy's grandfather a case of condoms AND a cock punch so hard it changes the tides.
C: Simply shove the entire planet into the sun if he gets bored.


Well, they can get some kryptonite and then twist their moustaches while laughing a hammy little laugh.
 
2012-12-30 08:35:30 AM
Youtube "For the Man Who has Everything".

Absolutely boring. In no wayl a compelling and heartwrenching character study.
 
2012-12-30 08:39:30 AM

Captain Steroid: You forgot one...

[i657.photobucket.com image 800x800]

\ Nothing "boring" about THAT fight! o.o


Hm.

Accelerator may be an unfair fight for Superman. Hit Superman, he shrugs it off. Hit Accelerator, it ricochets and hits you.

/not sure how making blood flow backwards makes people explode, admittedly
 
2012-12-30 08:40:05 AM

Wasteland: Picture Brainiac as the logical sci-fi extension of AI research and crimefighting/counterterrorism: an ultra-authoritarian Big Brother that manages to infest most of the world's networks before anyone notices what it's up to. It demands that humanity live in peace as rational beings- and will nuke us, turn drones on us or simply take all our toys away, the moment we make one false move. Like Superman, it's a transhuman intelligence with its own notions of Truth and Justice and a vision for humanity's future. It has no body to punch, no secret core system to heat-vision into slag, and can hold the entire species hostage against Supes and his interference. Even if Brainiac is bluffing on that last point, it may well be that the only way to stop it is to undo the entire Information Age and then start over from untainted systems.


OK--we'll do it! But, one change. We're gonna make Braniac the creation of a sassy, street-wise computer programmer. We're thinking Chris Tucker.
 
2012-12-30 08:41:05 AM
Just finished watching Superman vs the Elite. Not a bad story, actually.
 
2012-12-30 09:09:15 AM

Mad_Radhu: Tarl3k: Best Superman graphic novel ever made was Superman: Red Son...

I have a soft spot for A Superman for All Seasons. I really like how it cures the essence of what makes Superman a great character. Until I read this story, I really didn't get Superman as a character.

[i.imgur.com image 700x1075]

[www.blogcdn.com image 400x638]
All Star Superman is also great as well.


Didn't he just stick that toddler right back up on that ledge and leave him?
 
2012-12-30 09:20:38 AM
The more I think about it a superman movie could be pretty good if the writers can create a villain who sets up a believable Xanatos Gambit. If no matter what superman does results in a poor outcome all his god like powers shouldn't ruin the plot.
 
2012-12-30 09:25:31 AM

CPT Ethanolic: Batman is easier because of the "dark" past.  It's the same reason that goth poetry is easy.  Selling misery/darkness is always easier than selling hope.


Superman storylines have about the same hope/misery ratio as Batman storylines. If anything, they're more depressing, since the protagonist could solve everything in about half a second but doesn't because he's dumb as a goddamned post.

That said, Superman's probably harder to write for because his continuity issues are significantly more obvious -- most batman storylines are solved by xanatos speed chess, whereas most superman storylines are solved by introducing a new power. While it's technically still a bit weird when Batman doesn't remember a skill or bit of info that was important in a previous storyline, it doesn't have quite the face-palm value of Superman forgetting, say, that he can fly, or freeze things with his breath, or see through walls. It means he's literally the equivalent of a human that's too dumb to breathe.

Superman's also tied up in a lot more restrictive status quo than Batman. Bruce Wayne is quite literally insane, so writing him with various personalities and character arcs without making everyone stop buying the book isn't all that hard, but almost anything that could make supes interesting would be considered a major violation of his character by everyone.

//Additionally, the problem with literal invincible characters is that suspense is impossible so long as they're the good guy. Adding a random maguffin to re-introduce suspense? The worst kind of hack-work. So there's kind of a dilemma there, too.
 
2012-12-30 09:37:22 AM
Only one person can be cast to save the entire Superman franchise.

Samuel
L
Jackson
 
2012-12-30 09:45:22 AM

qsblues: Only one person can be cast to save the entire Superman franchise.

Samuel
L
Jackson


They called me Mr Glass...
 
2012-12-30 09:59:16 AM
If they make this into a trilogy the second movie should be Doomsday and use the Coast City plot as a secondary plotline, but use a real city and leave out the Green Lantern, and replace Mongul with Darkseid. Then in the third movie recover from death, battle Darkseid, but leave out the four Supermen with the exception of Steel. To be played by Shaq of course.
 
2012-12-30 10:19:45 AM

robohobo: WippitGuud: [i382.photobucket.com image 850x359]


[media.screened.com image 649x320]


Are there any character that attack his mind? Braniac "out-thinks" him, but when the body is invulnerable, hit him in the thoughts.

It's happened now and again, but much like Captain America has trained a great many of the Avengers in hand to hand combat, the Martian Manhunter has trained much of the JLA in telepath protection. But to answer directly, no, Superman has no arch-telepath-foe. He's had villains fark with his mind, Dominus, I suppose.

As long as we're on Superman, a)fark the new 52, and b)i've always been disappointed that it was never addressed that the superman that doomsday killed, the superman for a good half of the post-crisis run, wasn't really superman at all.


Maxwell Lord mind controlled him which caused Wonder Woman to snap his neck.
 
2012-12-30 10:23:16 AM

WippitGuud: Haliburton Cummings: no one cares what you think, so just get in the seat with your popcorn and stfu like everyone else...

2/10... nobody care what you think either :)


"waahhhhh you are a big pooh pooh head ...waaaahhhhh"

"are you the ..Fatman? NOOOOO?"

you sure showed me..
 
2012-12-30 10:27:24 AM

WippitGuud: qsblues: Only one person can be cast to save the entire Superman franchise.

Samuel
L
Jackson

They called me Mr Glass...


That movie never happened ... IT NEVER HAPPENED! LALALALALALALAICAN'THEARYOULALALALALANEVERHAPPENEDNEVERHAPPENEDNEVERHA PPENEDLALALALALALA
 
2012-12-30 10:30:03 AM

Haliburton Cummings: WippitGuud: Haliburton Cummings: no one cares what you think, so just get in the seat with your popcorn and stfu like everyone else...

2/10... nobody care what you think either :)

"waahhhhh you are a big pooh pooh head ...waaaahhhhh"

"are you the ..Fatman? NOOOOO?"

you sure showed me..


Why do you care what I think?
 
2012-12-30 10:37:32 AM

Darth_Lukecash: If you look at the history of popular characters, you will find that what made them popular is watered down as they became more mainstream.

Mickey Mouse was a bit of a smart ass prankster. Popeye was a rough and tumble sailor. Superman was a bully who forced his liberal agenda on people. (His first major story was to stop ammunition manufacturers from cintinuing a civil war in South America.)

Superman isn't invunerable, nor is he always strongest. He always had a tendency hit first and ask questions later. In all of his adventures he gets knocked out, hurt, restrained... Etc. just like any other superhero.

But superman cannot be defeated due to normal human achievement. Thats why people find him boring. You can shoot Batman. You can't just shoot Superman.

Its why Superman's adventures involve mad scientist, aliens, and supernatural elements.


Goes back way further than that, look into the history of Robin Hood. Originally he was a yeoman, never had any ties to royalty. But the story was changed, to make him more palatable to the ruling class.
 
2012-12-30 10:51:00 AM

Jim_Callahan: CPT Ethanolic: Batman is easier because of the "dark" past.  It's the same reason that goth poetry is easy.  Selling misery/darkness is always easier than selling hope.

Superman storylines have about the same hope/misery ratio as Batman storylines. If anything, they're more depressing, since the protagonist could solve everything in about half a second but doesn't because he's dumb as a goddamned post.......


I give you Superman: Peace on Earth. The real dilemna for Clark is that despite all of his physical powers, he's incapable of fixing the root cause of all strife - the evil lurking in the human heart.

Jim_Callahan:
//Additionally, the problem with literal invincible characters is that suspense is impossible so long as they're the good guy. Adding a random maguffin to re-introduce suspense? The worst kind of hack-work. So there's kind of a dilemma there, too.


Doomsday was invented becdause at the time there was no character in the DCU that Kal-EL couldn't punch out. This lesson was not lost on the DCAU creators, where Kryptonians in general are shown to less able to take a punch than other continuities. Even better, there seems to be a recent trend among the creative types in how Clark is depicted, and that is that among humans he is a demi-god, but among other Kryptonians he is decidedly average, meaning that in any fight it's really his heart and experience that win out, not his powers.

texdent: robohobo: WippitGuud: [i382.photobucket.com image 850x359]


Are there any character that attack his mind? Braniac "out-thinks" him, but when the body is invulnerable, hit him in the thoughts....
Maxwell Lord mind controlled him which caused Wonder Woman to snap his neck.


What made that seen so unbelieveably effective was the stark demonstration of just how much stronger Kal-el is than Dianna. He broke her arm just sorta because and the fear portrayed really drove home just what a danger he really could be on Earth, and just how much control he has to maintain over himself....and back to the DCAU and the "World Made of Cardboard" speech.
 
2012-12-30 10:54:45 AM
Lots of great stuff in this thread but one of the things that I've always found interesting about Superman isn't Superman, but Clarke Kent. THAT'S the real Jor-El. A humble guy that's just wants to get on with his life who happens to be in love with crack reporter Lois Lane.

Where this story connects from a human, dramatic point of view is before Lane knows his secret identity. Kent can't tell her who he really is even though she's always pining after Superman. The poor bastard is in a love triangle with himself. What's makes it dramatic is that this is unrequited on two levels- Lane doesn't love Kent so they aren't going to get it on and Superman's too noble for a relationship.

He can be or do almost anything but he can't have the woman he loves.
 
2012-12-30 11:02:10 AM
Has anyone said Superman is lame yet?
 
2012-12-30 11:15:33 AM

meanmutton: Bill Frist: downstairs: CPT Ethanolic: Batman is easier because of the "dark" past.  It's the same reason that goth poetry is easy.  Selling misery/darkness is always easier than selling hope.

Never thought of it that way, good analogy.

Pure nonsense. Hallmark cards sell plenty well. Most people love the corniest, easiest, happiest shiat (thus why even "dark" hollywood films have to have happy endings)

Memento, Insomnia, and The Prestige all has pretty farked up endings, all done by Nolan.


Are you disagreeing that most hollywood films have happy endings?

Anyway, I think The Prestige was Nolan's best film. Good stuff and no dumb batman voice.
 
2012-12-30 11:25:57 AM

Lord Binky: "But Superman has a corny personality," you say. Newsflash: everyone did in the Silver Age. Yes, even the wonderful Batman, Iron Man, or even Thor all were corny by today's standards then. DC's just been too stupid to shake Supes out of it like the rest.


No, not really.

You are correct that the writing of the silver age characters is probably corny, or at least campy, by today's standards for almost any hero. But Superman has always been a goody two shoes boy scout with no real flaws, no real doubts, and no real complexity.

On the flip side, Batman always had a dark tortured past, Iron Man was always a snarky dick, Spiderman was always insecure and haunted by his past, Hulk was always this duality of madness and intelligence, etc. etc.

It is totally possible to write a cool story that features superman. But it is almost impossible to make Superman himself interesting as a character. You make Superman stories interesting by either being metafictional about it (like Alan Moore always does, or with something like Red Son), or you make a fun story about crazy monsters and evils and Superman is the god that defeats him.

Lord Binky: He's no more powerful than, say, Thor (who can fly and shoot lightning) or the Hulk (who isn't harmed by tank shells).


Well you are picking the two most powerful Marvel heroes here, but Hulk has no other powers and the traditional hulk is basically a wild beast when he has his strength. Now Hulk normally has intelligence too, but he still loses that intelligence when he really goes into a rage. I never really bothered with Thor because I also find him boring, but I don't remember Thor being super intelligent.

Superman, otoh, is normally written with near Batman-levels of intelligence in deducuction, Lex Luthor levels of intelligence in science (his fortress is full of robotic doubles and he spends his time working on crazy scientific problems), Hulk level strength, Flash level speed, flight that works in space, laser eyes, freeze breathe, and whatever else I'm forgetting.
 
2012-12-30 11:34:33 AM

born_yesterday: OK--we'll do it! But, one change. We're gonna make Braniac the creation of a sassy, street-wise computer programmer. We're thinking Chris Tucker.


It's too bad Richard Pryor is dead.
 
2012-12-30 11:37:07 AM
They should definitely be developing Darkseid as a movie villain because of the effect he has on Superman.

Supes' relationship with Lex Luthor is complex. He hates and distrusts him, while simultaneously trying to save him from himself.

His relationship with Darkseid is nothing like that. Darkseid makes Supes farking crazy. As soon as he so much as sees Darkseid he starts boiling over with rage and his brain switches off and he starts making mistakes. This largely comes from the fact that Darkie managed to take control of Supes a few times in the past and use him to do very naughty things. He's the only person Supes not only seriously considers but actually threatens to kill on a regular basis.

In contrast, Darkseid could barely be more indifferent to it all. In true M. Bison fashion, he sees Supes' insane rage at being used the way he was, but to Darkie it was just Tuesday.

Darkseid should be the next movie villain.
 
2012-12-30 11:44:35 AM

PIP_the_TROLL: Darkseid should be the next movie villain.


If they ever manage to get it going, supposedly he'll be in the Justice League movie.
 
2012-12-30 11:49:18 AM

PIP_the_TROLL: They should definitely be developing Darkseid as a movie villain because of the effect he has on Superman.

Supes' relationship with Lex Luthor is complex. He hates and distrusts him, while simultaneously trying to save him from himself.

His relationship with Darkseid is nothing like that. Darkseid makes Supes farking crazy. As soon as he so much as sees Darkseid he starts boiling over with rage and his brain switches off and he starts making mistakes. This largely comes from the fact that Darkie managed to take control of Supes a few times in the past and use him to do very naughty things. He's the only person Supes not only seriously considers but actually threatens to kill on a regular basis.

In contrast, Darkseid could barely be more indifferent to it all. In true M. Bison fashion, he sees Supes' insane rage at being used the way he was, but to Darkie it was just Tuesday.

Darkseid should be the next movie villain.


"Any minute now, Brainiac is going to explode. And guess what? You're going with him."
 
2012-12-30 12:13:37 PM
To be fair Christopher Nolan made Batman boring too.
 
2012-12-30 12:34:41 PM

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: To be fair Christopher Nolan made Batman boring too.


He did make The Joker interesting, though.
 
2012-12-30 01:05:19 PM

Mister Peejay: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: To be fair Christopher Nolan made Batman boring too.

He did make The Joker interesting, though.


Hardly. He turned a magnificent study in psychosis and casual evil into a Die Hard villain with a facepaint fetish.
 
2012-12-30 01:37:11 PM

Bill Frist: Lord Binky: "But Superman has a corny personality," you say. Newsflash: everyone did in the Silver Age. Yes, even the wonderful Batman, Iron Man, or even Thor all were corny by today's standards then. DC's just been too stupid to shake Supes out of it like the rest.

No, not really.

You are correct that the writing of the silver age characters is probably corny, or at least campy, by today's standards for almost any hero. But Superman has always been a goody two shoes boy scout with no real flaws, no real doubts, and no real complexity.

On the flip side, Batman always had a dark tortured past, Iron Man was always a snarky dick, Spiderman was always insecure and haunted by his past, Hulk was always this duality of madness and intelligence, etc. etc.

It is totally possible to write a cool story that features superman. But it is almost impossible to make Superman himself interesting as a character. You make Superman stories interesting by either being metafictional about it (like Alan Moore always does, or with something like Red Son), or you make a fun story about crazy monsters and evils and Superman is the god that defeats him.

Lord Binky: He's no more powerful than, say, Thor (who can fly and shoot lightning) or the Hulk (who isn't harmed by tank shells).

Well you are picking the two most powerful Marvel heroes here, but Hulk has no other powers and the traditional hulk is basically a wild beast when he has his strength. Now Hulk normally has intelligence too, but he still loses that intelligence when he really goes into a rage. I never really bothered with Thor because I also find him boring, but I don't remember Thor being super intelligent.

Superman, otoh, is normally written with near Batman-levels of intelligence in deducuction, Lex Luthor levels of intelligence in science (his fortress is full of robotic doubles and he spends his time working on crazy scientific problems), Hulk level strength, Flash level speed, flight that works in space, laser eyes, freeze breathe, and whatever else I'm forgetting.


This is why I think he should return to his original power set and level. Again, no flight and no heat vision right off the bat. His powers derive from Krypton's high gravity. He would still have the genius element though.

So let's make him interesting in some way. I think it starts with making him psychologically no better than any normal person. He has a good sense of right and wrong instilled by the Kents, he has the power to do much right and good. This is where I like the idea of reintroducing his old devil-may-care, mildly roughneck style from way back when.

To illustrate my point, consider the only member of the Avengers to kill someone in the movie: Captain America. He hails from a time of war and a time in which people were raised with a simpler sense of right and wrong. Just because someone has a simplistic moral view of the world doesn't mean the world actually is that simple. Every other Avenger is much more capable of killing people than him, but he's the one who throws a guy out of the helicarrier to his death. He didn't do it with intent per se so much as he treated the situation like combat because that's what he knows. Thing is, that's how most Golden Age characters acted. Death, injury, and the like was just a part of the game if you were a mook. It didn't dwell on the morality of killing like today's comics do.

You take a Superman who is more liberal with his powers and you have a guy that is like us - who likes having the power to fight bad guys. But there are consequences to such irresponsibility. A hero who kills and easily causes collateral damage may have their heart in the right place, but it will frighten people around him given time. It makes him imperfect.

But wait, there's more. He's the last of his race. His planet was destroyed and Earth is his home. With the power he has (however reduced) and his simplistic morality, he might feel he must protect it. All of it. But he really is only one man and has to deal with having to choose who he helps and who he doesn't.

Then let's consider how the hell he juggles his professional life with his superhero life. A guy still has to sleep, right? How does he choose to socialize with Lois and Jimmy instead of searching for crimes to stop? Come to think of it, Supes could take a page out of the show Dexter to show how much thought must be put into that. Being Superman is not as easy as it's been made to look. A Superman movie needs to dwell on those things because that's the kind of stuff real people would have to think about every day if they wanted to be like him. We need to stop watching Superman and need to start being put in his boots.
 
2012-12-30 01:42:12 PM
Goddamn I'm long-winded about this subject. Supes isn't even my favorite Superhero. I will also clarify that I don't think Superman needs to be more interesting than others brought up; he just needs to be interesting at all to people.

Batman, Iron Man, Spider-Man; these characters could have all been written like Superman, free of character flaws and real problems. They would be regarded the same if so, if lower powered, but I doubt "at least he's not as powerful as Superman" is a winning selling point if that's all you got.
 
2012-12-30 02:54:50 PM

Bill Frist: Superman, otoh, is normally written with near Batman-levels of intelligence in deducuction, Lex Luthor levels of intelligence in science (his fortress is full of robotic doubles and he spends his time working on crazy scientific problems), Hulk level strength, Flash level speed, flight that works in space, laser eyes, freeze breathe, and whatever else I'm forgetting.


I'm not a Superman fan by any stretch of the imagination, but as I understand it, John Byrne declared that Superman was a "Jack of all trades, but a master of none" in the late 80's. The powers were strictly defined, and limited to a certain degree. He was 2nd best at everything, meaning there was always somebody who could beat him in a certain category:

The Flash was faster. The Hulk was stronger (or whatever the DC equivalent). Batman was smarter (and actually knew how to kill him).

He also didn't have whatever power they cared to invent, like that stupid S logo net thing from Superman 2.
 
2012-12-30 03:24:42 PM

kroonermanblack: Mentat: Superman is not boring, Superman is not lame, it just requires a certain degree of talent to write for that type of character that most comics writers don't have.

Superman is lame. He's a full fledged god. He has no power limitations, has every power, and is completely immune to everything but magic rocks or magic.

Unless we're taking away all the super powers that make the escapism cool, super man is a tits up boring character because he's a GOD. There's no training or difficulty for him to overcome, it's all worthless challenges. And when he DOES have a fight? It's farking super-sayan Dragon Ball Z levels of stupid 'blowing up the sun to power punch' strength. Those characters are tepidly boring to watch because there's no real risk or harm to them, so why care? Especially since he has EVERY super power known to man, and has it better than the premier exemplar of it anyway.


Does it matter? Batman could be taken out by a blow to the back of the head, if any of his villains weren't so crazy they've never thought of it. In a relative sense, he has story immunity on par with superman. Hell, he's survived one of Darkseid's Omega beams, which pretty much guarantee oblivion to even superman level characters. Pair superman up against a stronger threat than a real estate swindle and it gets interesting. Think of superman getting played during the Cadmus arc of justice league.
 
2012-12-30 03:26:01 PM

Malacon: Ryker's Peninsula: The problem with Superman isn't that the only thing that can hurt him is Kryptonite, or that the only memorable bad buy is Lex Luther, the problem is that Truth and Justice are no longer part of the American way.

Which is why What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way? was so good. It tackles that idea head on.

What if Superman played by everyone elses rules?


The superman vs. The elite cartoon was great at showing how frightening superman could be if he didn't want to be a boy scout anymore.
 
2012-12-30 03:26:31 PM

blue_2501: Bill Frist: Superman, otoh, is normally written with near Batman-levels of intelligence in deducuction, Lex Luthor levels of intelligence in science (his fortress is full of robotic doubles and he spends his time working on crazy scientific problems), Hulk level strength, Flash level speed, flight that works in space, laser eyes, freeze breathe, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

I'm not a Superman fan by any stretch of the imagination, but as I understand it, John Byrne declared that Superman was a "Jack of all trades, but a master of none" in the late 80's. The powers were strictly defined, and limited to a certain degree. He was 2nd best at everything, meaning there was always somebody who could beat him in a certain category:

The Flash was faster. The Hulk was stronger (or whatever the DC equivalent). Batman was smarter (and actually knew how to kill him).

He also didn't have whatever power they cared to invent, like that stupid S logo net thing from Superman 2.


I'm sure that most writers follow this, but being the SECOND smartest and the SECOND fastest and the SECOND strongest (I'm not actually sure who is stronger than superman, but some nerd here probably knows), and SECOND best freeze breathe, and SECOND best lazer eyes, and SECOND best flight, and SECOND best x-ray vision, etc.

is still making him be so all around powerful, and with such a wide array of powers, that his victory is never really in doubt AND there is never really any tension or suspense about the outcomes.

As someone said above, too often superman plots just revolve around Superman kind of FORGETTING his powers. So he fights some robots or whatever for 80% of the issue and then at the end is like "Oh yeah, maybe my freeze breath will stop them" and then wins. Or he is trying to find someone and then at the end of the issue is like "oh, whoops, I can just x-ray vision for them".
 
2012-12-30 03:28:03 PM

PIP_the_TROLL: DarkPascual: how interesting could be the story of a man that is pushed to be darker by enemies increasingly violent and dangerous and a world that keeps telling him that he is dumb and naive?

They already tested that, in "Superman vs. The Elite". Check it out.



When Superman lowers himself to the level of his enemies, it's terrifying.



DarkPascual: As much as I really like heroes like Batman or Iron Man or anti-heroes like Deadpool or Wolverine, I'm kinda tired of the cliches that come along the dark, brooding and cynical type of character. Superman and Captain America probably aren't the coolest, but they are good men, and those characters are needed too.

Another guy after my own heart. My favorite comic characters are Supes, Cap and Cyclops (well, pre-2000 cyclops that wasn't destroyed by the writers). I like the good guys. Flawed is easy to write. Being a stand up guy is hard.


Oops, came late to the thread, glad to see you have this covered. It is more of a challenge to do Superman right because it takes more imagination. Batman is just a boy in a playsuit, crying for mommy and daddy.
 
2012-12-30 03:31:06 PM

Lord Binky: But wait, there's more. He's the last of his race. His planet was destroyed and Earth is his home. With the power he has (however reduced) and his simplistic morality, he might feel he must protect it. All of it. But he really is only one man and has to deal with having to choose who he helps and who he doesn't.


This is like the only interesting thing about Superman as a character, but no one ever really stuck to it. Superman has a whole CITY of Kryptonians he hangs out with, and he has a bunch of other Kryptonians that he is constantly fighting and putting in the phantom zone.

Lord Binky: Then let's consider how the hell he juggles his professional life with his superhero life. A guy still has to sleep, right? How does he choose to socialize with Lois and Jimmy instead of searching for crimes to stop? Come


He probably doesn't have to sleep, but I agree that the morality of Superman ever living an actual life instead of constantly saving peopel could be kind of interesting to look at. Although the same could be done with basically any hero, and most Marvel characters have spent time struggling with that... especially Spiderman.
 
2012-12-30 03:36:48 PM

blue_2501: Superman is ultra boring and mega lame. Why? Because you have very few weaknesses, all of the stories are going to revolve around those weaknesses, over and over and over and over again. I mean, have you seen a Superman movie that DIDN'T involve Kryptonite?


You just have to write a different kind of story. The threat should never be against Superman. The threat should always be against SOMEBODY ELSE and Superman has to stop it. That and tone down the stupid power inflation like "I hear everything" -- just because you have xray vision and "super hearing" shouldn't mean you can see and hear the entire world at once. If he still has to decide "where to be" because he isn't infinitely fast, and "what to look for" because he DOESN'T see everything, then you have conflict that requires resolution. If you realize that he CAN'T hold a collapsing building together -- which is logical even given his powers -- then you realize there are interesting stories to be told.

Superman is like Columbo. You can say Columbo is a lame boring mystery because both you and Columbo always know who the murderer is from the beginning, but you're wrong. A Columbo mystery just works by different rules. In a Columbo mystery, the mystery is how Columbo will prove the killer did it.
 
2012-12-30 03:41:25 PM
I still think the right way to do a Superman movie is to stop trying to force Superman to be a dark/complex/interesting character, and just use him as he is used best in comics: as a a goofy fun character who fights wacky enemies.

Have him fly around with Krypto and fight Bizarro and deal with Brainiac using 8 different kinds of kryptonite on him. shiat like that.

Not only is that the right way to use superman, but it also would make the movie stand out among the current crop of superhero films that all feel really similar in tone.
 
2012-12-30 06:24:44 PM
I think the answer is a 30's era Superman film, with a drastically depowered Superman. Maybe by the end he learns to fly, He should be able to be hurt, but stronger than the average man.

Or fark it, just reboot the Rocketeer. He's really cool.
 
Displayed 50 of 216 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report