FARK.com: (7508973) Christopher Nolan says that adapting Superman is more difficult than adapting Batman, presumably because Superman is so damned boring

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		Christopher Nolan says that adapting Superman is more difficult than adapting Batman, presumably because Superman is so damned boring (digitalspy.com)		216
		More: Obvious, Man of Steel, Dark Knight, Superman, Batman, Michael Caine, John McClane, Christian Bale, Zack Snyder

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Jizz Master Zero		2012-12-29 09:53:26 PM

WhippingBoy: If I made a Superman movie, it would be 2 1/2 hours of Superman kicking ass.
No drama, no weaknesses, no overcoming obstacles, just a whole bunch of ass kicking.

Sounds like a boring farking movie.

Champion of the Sun		2012-12-29 10:04:38 PM

Bill Frist: If questions didn't make you feel so bad, I'd ask how you think America has less faults (or less evil ones) than the past but has "lots its way".

Guess we should have stayed on course and gotten more evil instead?

Are you hard right now? Does this feeling make you happy? Do you pick up women by telling them you aggravation troll on the Internet? Your parents are very proud of you. You have spent the gift of life in such a meaningful way. I wish I was more like you. If I pay you, will you show me the way? I'm potty trained and I don't mind sleeping in garages or basements. Even a chest stored in the closet will be an acceptable bed for me. Please

WhippingBoy		2012-12-29 10:06:12 PM

Jizz Master Zero: WhippingBoy: If I made a Superman movie, it would be 2 1/2 hours of Superman kicking ass.
No drama, no weaknesses, no overcoming obstacles, just a whole bunch of ass kicking.

Sounds like a boring farking movie.

Couldn't be any worse than Superman Returns.

Bill Frist		2012-12-29 10:06:54 PM

You're the dork that tried to make a Superman movie thread about some half-assed political opinions you hold.

But, man, maybe internet discussion boards just aren't for you if you can't handle any discussion?

AsprinBurn		2012-12-29 10:10:00 PM

Bill Frist: Like, you think Superman wouldn't be cool with one in five children going hungry but... he was cool with the mass poverty and hunger of Hoover's presidency? (Superman was created in 1932)

You really don't know your Superman history. It's the exact opposite of what you said. The Truth, Justice and the American Way only came later, after WWII. He was much more a people's hero fighting corrupt politicians and dirty landlords in the first decade. Having been created in 1932 is absolute zero evidence that he was cool with anything happening in that year.

Bill Frist		2012-12-29 10:11:47 PM

AsprinBurn: Bill Frist: Like, you think Superman wouldn't be cool with one in five children going hungry but... he was cool with the mass poverty and hunger of Hoover's presidency? (Superman was created in 1932)

You really don't know your Superman history. It's the exact opposite of what you said. The Truth, Justice and the American Way only came later, after WWII. He was much more a people's hero fighting corrupt politicians and dirty landlords in the first decade. Having been created in 1932 is absolute zero evidence that he was cool with anything happening in that year.

I doubt said fictional character is cool with drone bombings either...

Champion of the Sun		2012-12-29 10:16:18 PM

Bill Frist: You're the dork that tried to make a Superman movie thread about some half-assed political opinions you hold.

But, man, maybe internet discussion boards just aren't for you if you can't handle any discussion?

Did you finish? Do you feel shame right now? I always feel shame when I finish. My refractory period is about thirty minutes, what's yours? We can go again when you're ready.

But seriously, don't talk to me about discussion when you don't address any points I make or even attempt to engage in meaningful debate. Read your comments and see if you come off as someone worthy of interaction.

Bill Frist		2012-12-29 10:17:53 PM

You are really bad at this! haha

moothemagiccow		2012-12-29 10:18:20 PM

smimmy: moothemagiccow: Mentat: Superman is not boring, Superman is not lame, it just requires a certain degree of talent to write for that type of character that most comics writers don't have.

and tv writers
and movie writers
and cartoon writers
and novel writers

The first season of Smallville was pretty good, admittedly it got a lot worse as it went on.

Meteorite freak of the week? It was terrible.

The first two Christopher Reeve-Superman movies were good.

Nope, goofy. Reeve played both parts well but everyone else was terrible and Lex was a shiatty villain.

The Superman and Justice League/JLU cartoons were awesome.

Justice League was OK but about 8 minutes into every episode they're fighting an avalanche or robots or something that's total filler.

I can't speak for novels...

Let's assume they're terrible.

moothemagiccow		2012-12-29 10:18:56 PM

karasoth		2012-12-29 10:19:21 PM

Adapting Superman is easy:

They are trying to do with Superman what Marvel did with Iron Man. Build a cornerstone for a group movie franchise... thats difficult.

if you wan't to make a superman movie: Don't bother retelling the back story.... we all know it... planet blowing up, growing up in Kansas, being a reporter

get to the heart of the story

which is Superman was an alien god who fell to earth and became a man, a man who holds back against the fragility of the world around him and keeps himself from shattering the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiTWeu0nOKs

this video says it well enough

dalbuc		2012-12-29 10:24:51 PM

So the defense of the ball of suck that is superman is that in 1932 he didn't suck - not sure beating up landlords and ward bosses doesn't suck but whatever floats your boat. Superman is a god and stories about gods suck. Stories about people f'ed with by the gods don't suck. The Iliad isn't about the god, it is about the people the gods have ruined. It is entirely possible a Lois Lane focused movie would be vastly more compelling than a Superman focused movie.

Superman also has no rivals anyone cares about. Batman has rivals that people want to see - the Joker being likely the best arch-villain out there. Superman doesn't have anyone that sniffs Joker level and really nothing at the Catwoman/Penguin level.

karasoth		2012-12-29 10:25:37 PM

demonfaerie: I actually enjoyed Superman in the DC cartoons, but mostly when Batman is around. They really complement each other well. I have not read enough Superman comics, but that was because I couldn't get into them. However, didn't they just hook up Superman and Wonder Woman to make them more relevant again? Also they did with match.com I guess too. http://mashable.com/2012/08/27/superman-wonder-woman/

Also obligatory: Death and Return of Superman

Sums up Superman.

Death and Return of Superman is terrible and from the pop culture perspective of superman an not from the actual comic fan perspective

karasoth		2012-12-29 10:29:53 PM

dalbuc: So the defense of the ball of suck that is superman is that in 1932 he didn't suck - not sure beating up landlords and ward bosses doesn't suck but whatever floats your boat. Superman is a god and stories about gods suck. Stories about people f'ed with by the gods don't suck. The Iliad isn't about the god, it is about the people the gods have ruined. It is entirely possible a Lois Lane focused movie would be vastly more compelling than a Superman focused movie.

Superman also has no rivals anyone cares about. Batman has rivals that people want to see - the Joker being likely the best arch-villain out there. Superman doesn't have anyone that sniffs Joker level and really nothing at the Catwoman/Penguin level.

Superman isn't a god... see thats your problem right there.

He is Gallahad who was given the power of the Gods. And he has to keep his power in check because of his humanity.

He is the best humanity has to offer

Byrne made Lex Luthor vs Superman interesting

Lex is a self made man: He came out of the slums and did so with grit , determination, and a grey morality. He views himself as the greatness of humanity. Superman is a mirror that shows he isn't great he is just powerful.

Braniac is the knowledge of the Kryptonian race that exists without the humanity Clark has

the story is his humanity, not his powers

Bill Frist		2012-12-29 10:30:47 PM

dalbuc: Superman also has no rivals anyone cares about. Batman has rivals that people want to see - the Joker being likely the best arch-villain out there. Superman doesn't have anyone that sniffs Joker level and really nothing at the Catwoman/Penguin level.

Lex is a cool villain, but everyone else in Superman's rogue gallery is pretty farking dumb. I mean, who are the next biggest ones? Brainiac and Mr. Mxyzptlk?

Bill Frist		2012-12-29 10:38:40 PM

karasoth: the story is his humanity, not his powers

Superman has no humanity. Humanity is messy. Humanity farks and pukes and loves and despairs. Superman is idealized Boy Scout virtues, not humanity. He is more or less Jesus Christ with a cape.

In a narrative sense, humanity really needs to overcome challenges. Needs to be tempted into evil or failure, but overcome anyway.

That never* happens to Superman. He is always good, never tempted, never fails. His setbacks are just logistical, like figuring out how to counter this or that type of kryptonite

*(In the bazillions of comics that have been written I'm sure some writers have tried to make Superman be tempted by evil, but generally...)

karasoth		2012-12-29 10:44:02 PM

Bill Frist: dalbuc: Superman also has no rivals anyone cares about. Batman has rivals that people want to see - the Joker being likely the best arch-villain out there. Superman doesn't have anyone that sniffs Joker level and really nothing at the Catwoman/Penguin level.

Lex is a cool villain, but everyone else in Superman's rogue gallery is pretty farking dumb. I mean, who are the next biggest ones? Brainiac and Mr. Mxyzptlk?

Lex
Braniac
Zod (his big entry into comics was pretty awesome)
Darkside
Cyborg-Superman
Metallo
Bizarro
Parasite
Mister Mxyzptlk
Doomsday
Toyman

simplicimus		2012-12-29 10:48:15 PM

"Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent. He's weak... he's unsure of himself... he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race. "

karasoth		2012-12-29 10:49:17 PM

Bill Frist: karasoth: the story is his humanity, not his powers

Superman has no humanity. Humanity is messy. Humanity farks and pukes and loves and despairs. Superman is idealized Boy Scout virtues, not humanity. He is more or less Jesus Christ with a cape.

In a narrative sense, humanity really needs to overcome challenges. Needs to be tempted into evil or failure, but overcome anyway.

That never* happens to Superman. He is always good, never tempted, never fails. His setbacks are just logistical, like figuring out how to counter this or that type of kryptonite

*(In the bazillions of comics that have been written I'm sure some writers have tried to make Superman be tempted by evil, but generally...)

*says some one who has never read superman*

Superman is tempted in the comics and struggles

Bill Frist		2012-12-29 10:50:09 PM

Right, but most of those are pretty darn lame. Cybog-Superman? Bizarro (fun as pure camp sometimes, but hardly cool as a real villain)? Ditto Mxyzptik. Doomsday is corny as hell. Toyman seems like a wannabe Batman rogue, except he doesn't really fit into the superman world.

Darkseid (I assume that's what you meant) is pretty cool though.

Mad_Radhu		2012-12-29 10:50:26 PM

Bill Frist: dalbuc: Superman also has no rivals anyone cares about. Batman has rivals that people want to see - the Joker being likely the best arch-villain out there. Superman doesn't have anyone that sniffs Joker level and really nothing at the Catwoman/Penguin level.

Lex is a cool villain, but everyone else in Superman's rogue gallery is pretty farking dumb. I mean, who are the next biggest ones? Brainiac and Mr. Mxyzptlk?

Check out "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" to see what those two can do when you let them off their leashes.

Bill Frist		2012-12-29 10:53:24 PM

karasoth: Superman is tempted in the comics and struggles

Not in the ones I've read, or at least not done effectively.

I think the right way to do superman is to ignore him as a real character and just play off his archtype and history. This is what, say, Grant Morrison does in All Star Superman and it works. Just go for the pure goofy fun that silver age superman represents. Embrace the camp of super dogs and robot doubles and crazy space monsters.

The probablem, though, is that this is hard to translate to film probably. And this is clearly NOT what Nolan is doing (or capable of doing). They should have someone like Del Toro write and direct a superman movie. Just make it campy monster fun.

MurphyMurphy		2012-12-29 11:12:16 PM

They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way.

For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you... my only son.

one of the greatest movie lines ever.

Knowingly or not, it's the modern John 3:16 for those of us that don't believe in hokey religions but grew up obsessed with Superman, Batman and all those other stories of greatness versus mediocrity, good versus evil and man's inner struggle with himself.

Many of us built our moral codes on these stories as children and we still look to them for inspiration and reminders of our ideologies.

I'm sure not every comic book or superhero fan identifies with them this way, but the underlying story behind Superman (as with other superheros) is a story well worth telling. I can't wait until someone finds the way to tell it correctly and effectively as Richard Donner did. I sure hope Man of Steel pulls it off.

As for Superman himself, yes he is especially difficult to portray. But it's not because he is the pinnacle of greatness... from his strength of flesh and near invincibility to his superior intelligence and morality. And it's not that he is without fault because he is. And it isn't that out of necessity and will to survive that evil will seek his fall relentlessly.
All of these are the easy parts. Just doing them makes a mediocre Superman story (and I think we know which ones they are)

The difficulty lies in finding a way to portray that because of all his god-like gifts; that he holds the weight of a world and the fate of a people on his shoulders. A fate he was chosen for but must accept willingly.
And that when he falters, it's those who suffer from his mistakes and he must cope with that inevitability.. That because he is held (and holds himself) to such high standards and aspirations that when he falls short, it's a very very long fall for both himself and those who look to him.

The higher we climb (or fly), the further we have to fall and the greater the consequences will be when we do.
It's a theme and lesson without age. And Superman can fly so very very high.

/haters gonna hate
//can't wait for the movie

Tarl3k		2012-12-29 11:25:18 PM

Best Superman graphic novel ever made was Superman: Red Son...

Snapper Carr		2012-12-29 11:29:13 PM

Shrugging Atlas: Not a boring Superman story...

[i.imgur.com image 398x609]

That looks like it's about to get all slashficcy

blue_2501		2012-12-29 11:36:20 PM

Mentat: Superman is not boring, Superman is not lame, it just requires a certain degree of talent to write for that type of character that most comics writers don't have.

media.comicvine.com

Superman is ultra boring and mega lame. Why? Because you have very few weaknesses, all of the stories are going to revolve around those weaknesses, over and over and over and over again. I mean, have you seen a Superman movie that DIDN'T involve Kryptonite?

Also, his "stars and stripes forever" level of patriotism makes him a pretty one-dimensional goody two shoes. Batman has a dark side and a dark past. Many good superheroes do. The best stories revolve around anti-heroes or ones that have danced around shades of grey.

Lastly, when Alan Moore was creating the character Dr. Manhattan, he was basically making fun of Superman. This is what you do when you have as much power as Superman...

Dr.Zom		2012-12-29 11:46:47 PM

I don't understand people biatching about kryptonite. Sunlight kills vampires and they still find ways to make it interesting.

And stop rebooting the Donner films. They were weak sauce to begin with.

Carth		2012-12-29 11:53:27 PM

Dr.Zom: I don't understand people biatching about kryptonite. Sunlight kills vampires and they still find ways to make it interesting.

And stop rebooting the Donner films. They were weak sauce to begin with.

and sunlight operates on a fairly easy to understand system. Kryptonite is either as rare or common as the plot line requires. And unlike vampires who also have nearly a dozen other weakness they have to watch out for when the sun is down if there is no Kryptonite around superman is pretty much invulnerable.

Captain Steroid		2012-12-30 12:10:18 AM

karasoth: Bill Frist: dalbuc: Superman also has no rivals anyone cares about. Batman has rivals that people want to see - the Joker being likely the best arch-villain out there. Superman doesn't have anyone that sniffs Joker level and really nothing at the Catwoman/Penguin level.

Lex is a cool villain, but everyone else in Superman's rogue gallery is pretty farking dumb. I mean, who are the next biggest ones? Brainiac and Mr. Mxyzptlk?

Lex
Braniac
Zod (his big entry into comics was pretty awesome)
Darkside
Cyborg-Superman
Metallo
Bizarro
Parasite
Mister Mxyzptlk
Doomsday
Toyman

You forgot one...

i657.photobucket.com

\ Nothing "boring" about THAT fight! o.o

FuryOfFirestorm		2012-12-30 12:20:16 AM

Mentat: kroonermanblack: Superman is lame. He's a full fledged god. He has no power limitations, has every power, and is completely immune to everything but magic rocks or magic.

Unless we're taking away all the super powers that make the escapism cool, super man is a tits up boring character because he's a GOD. There's no training or difficulty for him to overcome, it's all worthless challenges. And when he DOES have a fight? It's farking super-sayan Dragon Ball Z levels of stupid 'blowing up the sun to power punch' strength. Those characters are tepidly boring to watch because there's no real risk or harm to them, so why care? Especially since he has EVERY super power known to man, and has it better than the premier exemplar of it anyway.

Imagine for a moment how much concentration is required for Clark Kent to shake someone's hand without crushing it into paste. Or to kiss Lois without crushing her face. or opening a car door without ripping it off. Superman doesn't get an off-day. He doesn't get to daydream or let his mind wander. He has to maintain that level of concentration 24/7, even in the midst of battle. This is a man who can literally crack the planet in half, and yet he chooses not to. Why? Because Superman's limits have never been physical, they are moral and ethical. This is a man who holds himself to a superhuman standard of conduct not simply because he wants to, but because he has to for the safety of everyone around him. Moreover, he knows that his greatest power is the ability to inspire humanity to greatness, but he has to exercise that power cautiously so that he doesn't instead make humanity feel small and weak in his presence. It's his greatest strength and his most glaring weakness. It's how his greatest enemies attack him. And that's where you find the best stories about Superman.

That's another thing that makes Batman and Superman part of a yin/yang dynamic.

Batman was born into money and had to work for his abilities.

Superman was born into his abilities and had to work for his money.

Batman is a human who tries to be super-human

Superman is a super-human that tries to be human.

Haliburton Cummings		2012-12-30 01:08:50 AM

i saw the trailer online, then on the big screen.

it looked like a whole lot of fail.

Kevin Costner? gimme a break.
the nobody guy from that show i could care less about playing supertights? yawn.

and this is what now , reboot number 400?

i will watch it on dvd because Diane Lane is in it and I'd watch Diane Lane read a toyota repair manual in a burlap sack with no makeup on so...

it looks like a whole lotta crap.
/Christina Fillion
//Nathan Bale
///etc etc fanboy butthurt

Haliburton Cummings		2012-12-30 01:12:06 AM

spice this thread up a bit

TheJoe03		2012-12-30 01:16:45 AM

Bill Frist: Champion of the Sun: I was being serious about the truth justice and the American way thing. Yes, America has an ugly past but we at least paid lip service to a higher ideal. Now no one cares about justice as we kill people with drones. Superman probably wouldn't be cool with one in five American children going hungry. I can't remember the last time I heard truth out of any public figure, even the ones I kinda like

In all seriousness, America holds up a much higher standard for "truth and justice" now than we did in any time in the past. While I'm no fan of drones, you really think they are worse than slavery? Internment camps? Making homosexuality illegal? Not allowing women or minorities (or non-property holding whites) to vote? Mass murdering native americans? Censoring books and works of art? Hollywood blacklisting?

etc. etc.

The good old days are myth.

gadian		2012-12-30 01:20:26 AM

Superman is a great character. People don't like "Good" right now though. People see themselves as falling so short of good that it makes it impossible to like a truly good character. Good is boring. "Boy Scout", "Goody-two-shoes", "Moral" are all derogatory because they can't be achieved by the masses.

Superman works when the audience feels like they're achieving good - like fighting Nazis or the KKK. Right now the world isn't working towards greater good, there is no great evil being fought - pretty much only petty politics where everyone is the bad guy all the time. This is why Batman works right now. The irony is that the world needs good in order to work towards good. Superman will work again in the next world war and should probably be shelved until he can fight along side the audience.

For the record though, Captain America is my favorite superhero. Not in any "America, fark yeah" sense, though.

Mentat		2012-12-30 01:21:43 AM

blue_2501: Superman is ultra boring and mega lame. Why? Because you have very few weaknesses, all of the stories are going to revolve around those weaknesses, over and over and over and over again. I mean, have you seen a Superman movie that DIDN'T involve Kryptonite?

Also, his "stars and stripes forever" level of patriotism makes him a pretty one-dimensional goody two shoes. Batman has a dark side and a dark past. Many good superheroes do. The best stories revolve around anti-heroes or ones that have danced around shades of grey.

Lastly, when Alan Moore was creating the character Dr. Manhattan, he was basically making fun of Superman. This is what you do when you have as much power as Superman...

1) Superman II didn't involve kryptonite.
2) Your attitude is the reason the comics industry has been saddled with an endless stream of generic anti-heroes since the 90's. Superman and Batman are two sides of the same coin. Batman is the cynical realist who sees humanity for what it is. Superman is the idealist who sees what humanity could be. We may live in Batman's world but we should strive for Superman's. Without a Superman, life is just an endless struggle until you're shot dead in some grimy Gotham alley. For all of his struggle, Batman ultimately accomplishes nothing. It's not just that the villains always come back, it's that the low level criminals never go away. There is always an endless stream of muggers, robbers, rapists, thieves, mobsters, crooked cops and low-lifes that are willing to risk Batman's wrath in order to operate in Gotham. Superman is a ray of hope in that world.
3) No, Alan Moore wasn't "making fun" of Superman, he was deconstructing the character. Dr. Manhattan is what happens to Superman when he loses his tether to humanity. Superman unbound from his ethical code is terrifying.

Mad_Radhu		2012-12-30 01:34:23 AM

Tarl3k: Best Superman graphic novel ever made was Superman: Red Son...

I have a soft spot for A Superman for All Seasons. I really like how it cures the essence of what makes Superman a great character. Until I read this story, I really didn't get Superman as a character.

i.imgur.com

All Star Superman is also great as well.

jimmyjackfunk		2012-12-30 01:40:58 AM

jj325: I think that a part of the problem is that to a whole generation, and to a lot of other people, this

[scrapetv.com image 283x350]

is Superman. Christopher Reeve owned that role, and his image has become so closely associated with Superman, that it's hard to get people on the side of a different actor.

^THIS. This is the Superman I remember. Of course the animated series I got used to hearing Tim Daly's voice but that is a different matter. When we rented The Dark Knight Rises, there was a trailer for this movie and the wife was echoing my sentiment, "There will only be ONE Superman and he is dead now"

/of course I think one of the better comics I remember reading was something along the lines of a "what if" storyline where what if Kal-El had crashed just outside Gotham and the Waynes had found him, decided to not have children and adopt him. One of the images I can remember was in the alley when they get shot, he gets pissed and pretty much burns them up with his heat vision.

Wasteland		2012-12-30 02:16:14 AM

As far as coming up with a good movie villain to go against Big Blue... I think Brainiac has the most potential, if done right.

The key to dealing with top-tier superpowers, and demigod characters in general, is to use conflicts that render those powers at least partially useless. That doesn't always mean the magic or kryptonite method. Kingdom Come worked by confronting him with a dilemma that he no longer had the perspective to solve. Brainiac can do the same, while playing to enough tropes to make the character quickly understood by viewers.

Picture Brainiac as the logical sci-fi extension of AI research and crimefighting/counterterrorism: an ultra-authoritarian Big Brother that manages to infest most of the world's networks before anyone notices what it's up to. It demands that humanity live in peace as rational beings- and will nuke us, turn drones on us or simply take all our toys away, the moment we make one false move. Like Superman, it's a transhuman intelligence with its own notions of Truth and Justice and a vision for humanity's future. It has no body to punch, no secret core system to heat-vision into slag, and can hold the entire species hostage against Supes and his interference. Even if Brainiac is bluffing on that last point, it may well be that the only way to stop it is to undo the entire Information Age and then start over from untainted systems.

That should be plenty to keep him busy, for a start.

walrusonion		2012-12-30 03:21:46 AM

Mad_Radhu: Tarl3k: Best Superman graphic novel ever made was Superman: Red Son...

I have a soft spot for A Superman for All Seasons. I really like how it cures the essence of what makes Superman a great character. Until I read this story, I really didn't get Superman as a character.

[i.imgur.com image 700x1075]

[www.blogcdn.com image 400x638]
All Star Superman is also great as well.

Superman for all seasons is an amazing comic I wish more people read. It essential to the who the character is in the same way Batman: Year One is to Bruce.

meanmutton		2012-12-30 03:27:06 AM

had98c: Maybe it's harder because these stupid comic book characters have been done and redone a bazillion times already. How about trying something original for once?

Yeah, Christopher Nolan has NEVER done an original movie.

meanmutton		2012-12-30 03:35:39 AM

Bill Frist: downstairs: CPT Ethanolic: Batman is easier because of the "dark" past. It's the same reason that goth poetry is easy. Selling misery/darkness is always easier than selling hope.

Never thought of it that way, good analogy.

Pure nonsense. Hallmark cards sell plenty well. Most people love the corniest, easiest, happiest shiat (thus why even "dark" hollywood films have to have happy endings)

Memento, Insomnia, and The Prestige all has pretty farked up endings, all done by Nolan.

moothemagiccow		2012-12-30 03:51:44 AM

FuryOfFirestorm: That's another thing that makes Batman and Superman part of a yin/yang dynamic.

Batman was born into money and had to work for his abilities.

Superman was born into his abilities and had to work for his money.

Batman is a human who tries to be super-human

Superman is a super-human that tries to be human.

They're basically the same superhero, but different characters.

The movie shiat is easy: Batman is rich so you get to cut the action scenes with let me buy this restaurant, let me fark this model - which everyone wants to do, but can't, so they watch. They did this on Iron Man because he's Marvel's Batman.

Superman movies suck because the side story is boring. Superman is a reporter (seen any good reporter movies lately?) who wants to fark a co-worker. Everyone wants to do this, and they do it already - at their job.

Lord Binky		2012-12-30 04:01:35 AM

Superman > Deadpool. There I said it.

I honestly think Superman is in desperate need of a long term makeover and I think it's all too simple how to do it: revert him to his Golden Age roots. He's about Truth and Justice (not the American way). He takes matters into his own hands. He'll bash through the walls of the villain's base and scare the hell out of them. He'll chuck guys around with ease and laugh at their attacks.

Who is this Superman? He's the guy we wish we could be when we wake up in the morning and read the news of the world and are disgusted. He's who your Grandpa wished he was when he was growing up poor during the Depression. He's not the guy who's there to save you; he's you to save this world one injustice at a time if you just had the power.

"But Superman has a corny personality," you say. Newsflash: everyone did in the Silver Age. Yes, even the wonderful Batman, Iron Man, or even Thor all were corny by today's standards then. DC's just been too stupid to shake Supes out of it like the rest.

You now have a super strong (but not "move the planet" strong), super tough (but tank shells can hurt him), super fast (but not "go back in time" fast) guy who cannot fly and cannot shoot heat beams from his eyes. And he's sick of some of this world's bull shiat. He's a walking power fantasy that lives in a world of corrupt politicians, greedy businessmen, and economic stress and he fights back.

You take that walking power fantasy and you explore how he can (and cannot) deal with today's ills. He's no more powerful than, say, Thor (who can fly and shoot lightning) or the Hulk (who isn't harmed by tank shells). He's a man who wants to do the right thing and be a hero (like Cap).

That's what Superman should be and that's what he once basically was.

Plant Rights Activist		2012-12-30 04:02:17 AM

Superman is boring because he essentially has no weakness. Physically the only thing that can hurt him is kryptonite and morally he is incorruptible.

gadian		2012-12-30 04:51:58 AM

Lord Binky Isn't who you're describing the Punisher?

robohobo		2012-12-30 05:44:26 AM

Karac: texdent: jj325: I think that a part of the problem is that to a whole generation, and to a lot of other people, this

[scrapetv.com image 283x350]

is Superman. Christopher Reeve owned that role, and his image has become so closely associated with Superman, that it's hard to get people on the side of a different actor.

Although, I think today a lot of people see
[anitaabbasi.files.wordpress.com image 300x300]

As Clark/The Blur/Superman

Who gives a fark who plays superman.
THIS is the only person who has any business playing Lois Lane:
[img154.imagevenue.com image 160x131]
Sadly, that's the largest pic I could find of that particular shot, that showed up reliably in the opening credits of every episode.

sexynudeactresses.com

Here you go.

/dean cain was farking horrible. he was hardly kansas whitebread

lewismarktwo		2012-12-30 05:53:52 AM

I think the best villain for Superman would be one that could use his limitless powers against him or plan his capers in such a way that they were rendered all but useless. A supreme tactician. Brainiac could be used but gods is that a silly character as is. He would need an overhaul. Lex Luthor would work too, but that kryptonite shiat has got to go.

Lord Binky		2012-12-30 05:56:01 AM

gadian: Lord Binky Isn't who you're describing the Punisher?

Not exactly, but I think that it's telling of how different Superman was in the beginning and it even shows some common ground with The Punisher. Golden Age Supes wasn't a killer per se, but he was more liberal with his super powers and did things that probably would actually kill people. Frederick Wertham, while dubious at best about the sexual aspects of comics, had something of a point about the trivialization of violence and his main reference points were Golden Age comics. Superman was a bit of a roughneck by comparison to his classic image which would emerge in the 50s.

The Silver Age, more importantly the Comics Code and the creative stifling it wrought on comics for decades, softened Superman (and Batman and more) into silly, whimsical fare that he is associated with (superdickery.com hers most of its material from this time). I'm not saying that Superman was a ripsnorting, edgy badass free of corniness in the Golden Age - all Golden Age comics have an unconscious, "old-fashioned" corny feel to them, but their heroes still got down and dirty in ways that would translate quite well to modern action fare. Superman is no different to me in this regard.

Superman is stuck in the same funk Batman was in until the '89 movie. I think many have forgotten or don't realize that until Burton's movie, Adam West and the Superfriends were the major reference points for Batman in pop culture. Batman was a joke but now he's taken more seriously.

Superman doesn't need "careful" or "creative" writing any more than any other superhero. He just needs his clock turned back in order to trade some power for some balls he used to have.

Apos		2012-12-30 05:57:42 AM

robohobo: Karac: texdent: jj325: I think that a part of the problem is that to a whole generation, and to a lot of other people, this

[scrapetv.com image 283x350]

is Superman. Christopher Reeve owned that role, and his image has become so closely associated with Superman, that it's hard to get people on the side of a different actor.

Although, I think today a lot of people see
[anitaabbasi.files.wordpress.com image 300x300]

As Clark/The Blur/Superman

Who gives a fark who plays superman.
THIS is the only person who has any business playing Lois Lane:
[img154.imagevenue.com image 160x131]
Sadly, that's the largest pic I could find of that particular shot, that showed up reliably in the opening credits of every episode.

[sexynudeactresses.com image 850x694]Here you go.

/dean cain was farking horrible. he was hardly kansas whitebread

Great Scott Teri Hatcher was smoldering hot back then(still is, actually). She was the only reason I bothered to watch this otherwise saccharine-laden dreck.

robohobo		2012-12-30 06:13:37 AM

Apos: robohobo: Karac: texdent: jj325: I think that a part of the problem is that to a whole generation, and to a lot of other people, this

[scrapetv.com image 283x350]

is Superman. Christopher Reeve owned that role, and his image has become so closely associated with Superman, that it's hard to get people on the side of a different actor.

Although, I think today a lot of people see
[anitaabbasi.files.wordpress.com image 300x300]

As Clark/The Blur/Superman

Who gives a fark who plays superman.
THIS is the only person who has any business playing Lois Lane:
[img154.imagevenue.com image 160x131]
Sadly, that's the largest pic I could find of that particular shot, that showed up reliably in the opening credits of every episode.

[sexynudeactresses.com image 850x694]Here you go.

/dean cain was farking horrible. he was hardly kansas whitebread

Great Scott Teri Hatcher was smoldering hot back then(still is, actually). She was the only reason I bothered to watch this otherwise saccharine-laden dreck.

I logged many hours with her in my spank bank. However the rack is not as impressive as one might believe. Real and spectacular? More like real and decent enough(see: The Cool Surface). But yeah, she was gorgeous back then. Pretty as all get-out.

I remember wondering, as a kid, why in the hell Chris Reeve's Superman(the one true film Superman for me, forever) was so hung up on Margot Kidder. The older I get, the more appealing she becomes. There's a cut scene in Donner's Superman 2 where she punks Clark into reveal his identity. While I disagree with how it happened(dude would know if he was hit by a bullet or not), it kinda opened my eyes as to how awesome a Lois she could be, and she's just got this...allure for me now.. Although for my money, and as much as I hate to say it, Erica Durance from Smallville made a very fine Lois Lane. That being said, I didn't mind Chloe as a Lois sub. Woulda been fine with her as Lois, actually. Teri Hatcher's Lois was always kinda meh, and very, very 90's. Much like Cain's Superman. Dana Delaney FTW, though.

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