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(Digital Spy)   Christopher Nolan says that adapting Superman is more difficult than adapting Batman, presumably because Superman is so damned boring   (digitalspy.com) divider line 216
    More: Obvious, Man of Steel, Dark Knight, Superman, Batman, Michael Caine, John McClane, Christian Bale, Zack Snyder  
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3419 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 29 Dec 2012 at 4:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-29 01:07:50 PM  
Superman is boring. On the other hand, I thought Batman was boring. (From the comics,that is.)
 
2012-12-29 01:13:44 PM  
Superman is lame.
 
2012-12-29 01:25:04 PM  
I hope Superman talks with a gravely voice, too.
 
2012-12-29 01:34:15 PM  
Superman is not boring, Superman is not lame, it just requires a certain degree of talent to write for that type of character that most comics writers don't have.
 
2012-12-29 01:39:00 PM  
It is hard to come up with a plausible antagonist when the protagonist can:
A: Move so fast he can draw spewing dongs over the bad guy's face before the bad guy can even start his "I'm going to take over the world" speech.
B: Go back in time and give the bad guy's grandfather a case of condoms AND a cock punch so hard it changes the tides.
C: Simply shove the entire planet into the sun if he gets bored.
 
2012-12-29 01:44:46 PM  
Batman is easier because of the "dark" past.  It's the same reason that goth poetry is easy.  Selling misery/darkness is always easier than selling hope.
 
2012-12-29 01:58:44 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Batman is easier because of the "dark" past.  It's the same reason that goth poetry is easy.  Selling misery/darkness is always easier than selling hope.


Never thought of it that way, good analogy.
 
2012-12-29 02:03:06 PM  
That's because Nolan is a hack.

His dialog is either exposition or Epic Proclamation, characters are one dimensional, everything has to be dark and brooding, there is zero humor, and everything goes on way too long.
 
2012-12-29 02:26:34 PM  
www.sidekickcomicsuk.com
 
2012-12-29 02:31:01 PM  
If you look at the history of popular characters, you will find that what made them popular is watered down as they became more mainstream.

Mickey Mouse was a bit of a smart ass prankster. Popeye was a rough and tumble sailor. Superman was a bully who forced his liberal agenda on people. (His first major story was to stop ammunition manufacturers from cintinuing a civil war in South America.)

Superman isn't invunerable, nor is he always strongest. He always had a tendency hit first and ask questions later. In all of his adventures he gets knocked out, hurt, restrained... Etc. just like any other superhero.

But superman cannot be defeated due to normal human achievement. Thats why people find him boring. You can shoot Batman. You can't just shoot Superman.

Its why Superman's adventures involve mad scientist, aliens, and supernatural elements.
 
2012-12-29 02:36:59 PM  
Saw the trailer for this before The Hobbit the other night.

Looked pretty good.

Nolan plus Snyder plus MOS = Win, I'mma thinking.
 
2012-12-29 02:47:11 PM  
I'd want to believe that Nolan's involvement will lead to a decent-if unnecessary- reboot of Superman II. I really, really do.
 
2012-12-29 02:52:56 PM  
Superman is so boring there was a long period where his writer/artist was actually named Boring...
 
2012-12-29 04:12:32 PM  
You know your character is boring when every movie made of him involves the same basic plot - villain uses kryptonite against hero
 
2012-12-29 04:15:32 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Batman is easier because of the "dark" past.  It's the same reason that goth poetry is easy.  Selling misery/darkness is always easier than selling hope.


Well, that and Batman is human. Technically, anyone can kick his ass, which gives the writers a lot of freedom.

Superman, you're basically stuck with three options:

1. Kryptonite
2. Magic
3. Another super-being.
 
2012-12-29 04:35:26 PM  
Wish they would just make a live action Dark Night Returns already. Only convincing foe for Superman that I've ever seen. John Hamm can finally play Superman. Not sure about Bruce though. Can't imagine someone who looks both like a grizzled crime fighter and a rich playboy. Mickey Rourke could be a convincing Batman, but a horrible Bruce Wayne.
 
2012-12-29 04:39:45 PM  
Maybe it's harder because these stupid comic book characters have been done and redone a bazillion times already. How about trying something original for once?
 
2012-12-29 04:40:58 PM  
Superman is invulnerable to everything so who gives a shiat.
 
2012-12-29 04:41:51 PM  

had98c: Maybe it's harder because these stupid comic book characters have been done and redone a bazillion times already. How about trying something original for once?


Isn't there only like seven different stories ever told? Joseph Campbell wrote about it. Besides, suck a dong
 
2012-12-29 04:45:03 PM  

Champion of the Sun: Can't imagine someone who looks both like a grizzled crime fighter and a rich playboy


Tom Hardy could probably be that guy. In Bronson and other movies he plays what could be the "grizzled crime fighter." then, in movies like Thinker Tailor Soldier Spy and to some extent Inception he somewhat plays more of a suit wearing clean looking guy.
 
2012-12-29 04:46:48 PM  

Farksteron: Champion of the Sun: Can't imagine someone who looks both like a grizzled crime fighter and a rich playboy

Tom Hardy could probably be that guy. In Bronson and other movies he plays what could be the "grizzled crime fighter." then, in movies like Thinker Tailor Soldier Spy and to some extent Inception he somewhat plays more of a suit wearing clean looking guy.


Too young though.
 
2012-12-29 04:47:29 PM  

gopher321: You know your character is boring when every movie made of him involves the same basic plot - villain uses kryptonite against hero


I missed the scene where Zod came after Supes with kryptonite boxing gloves. Is that in the Donner cut?

That aside, you're mostly right. The biggest flaw in Singer's reboot (apart from the whole stalker thing and the Superkid thing and the basic concept of him being a deadbeat dad thing) was that he decided to make Luthor the bad guy again. Superman needs a villain he can hit. Otherwise you're left with a climactic battle between your hero and a land mass.
 
2012-12-29 04:55:23 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

I'm not a big comics person, but this was one of the best original spins on Superman I've seen in awhile. (I know it's several years old at this point.) I wouldn't mind seeing a movie adaptation, though I'm not sure how that would play in Peoria.
 
2012-12-29 04:56:49 PM  

Champion of the Sun: Farksteron: Champion of the Sun: Can't imagine someone who looks both like a grizzled crime fighter and a rich playboy

Tom Hardy could probably be that guy. In Bronson and other movies he plays what could be the "grizzled crime fighter." then, in movies like Thinker Tailor Soldier Spy and to some extent Inception he somewhat plays more of a suit wearing clean looking guy.

Too young though.


George Clooney? :D
 
2012-12-29 04:56:53 PM  

Mentat: Superman is not boring, Superman is not lame, it just requires a certain degree of talent to write for that type of character that most comics writers don't have.


You're my new hero. :)

/ Fark's Journeyman Supermanologist
 
2012-12-29 04:59:10 PM  
Superman is only boring if you don't understand the story.

Superman is the classic "god in love with a mortal" archetype, so any story about superman must, to work, be about the mortals in his life--not just Lane and Olson always. It has to be about character, about love and sacrifice, to work well as a story. Superman's true weakness isn't kryptonite or magic (yes, magic--it's in the books), it's love. Yet, Hollywood can't seem to make a Superman movie without kryptonite, and I'm getting tired of it. This one, I predict, will be no different.

Stepping back from Superman for a moment, I think any superhero story should not only involve some cool CGI of their powers, sure; but more important is using their powers in new and surprising ways. Show me some thought and creativity behind being a super-powered person. That gets difficult when a hero only has super-strength, flight and heat vision to work with (and a few others, I know). Seeing the comic book Superman shave his beard via heat-visioning his own face in a mirror may make me say, 'wtf is that mirror made of,' but it is a nice start. It's better than the movies have done yet.

Different versions of Superman have had vastly different power levels. Only a few have had the strength to push the planet. I think he is his best when he's fast, but not time-bending fast, and when he's strong, but not planet-shoving strong, etc. And when he's not amnesia-kissing the memories out of people (unless he uses it on Lex Luthor all of a sudden--that I'd pay to see, just for the LOLs).

I don't mind a Superman movie once every fifteen or twenty years or so, maybe even a trilogy if it is of excellent quality, but, seriously, the constant rebooting of well known characters for the big screen is getting old, fast. I know Spider-man's origin story. there was no need to start all over again so damn soon (even if they do Gwen Stacey this time). I just saw a different version of Superman a few years back. Why should I be interested in another one? I would have been more interested in a Wonder Woman or even Captain Marvel movie than another version of Superman. Even a well-done Supergirl would have been a better idea, let alone a slightly more obscure hero.
 
2012-12-29 05:03:11 PM  

Farksteron: George Clooney? :D


Ha, I was gonna say Hardy couldn't do it because he was in a Batman movie, same reason Clooney can't play old Superman. He doesn't have the voice or chin for it anyway.
 
2012-12-29 05:05:12 PM  

Martstar: [upload.wikimedia.org image 250x375]

I'm not a big comics person, but this was one of the best original spins on Superman I've seen in awhile. (I know it's several years old at this point.) I wouldn't mind seeing a movie adaptation, though I'm not sure how that would play in Peoria.


Favorite Superman story EVER.

I love how they handled the other Super Heroes. Green Lantern, Batman, Wonder Woman... it was great. I don't think they could have gone much longer than they did, but that just proves how well it was written; they knew when to stop.
 
2012-12-29 05:09:48 PM  

Mentat: Superman is not boring, Superman is not lame, it just requires a certain degree of talent to write for that type of character that most comics writers don't have.


To a point, yes. But comparatively, there are a LOT of really good Batman graphic novels. Superman has maybe 3 decent ones, none of them amazing (maaaaybe All Star fits the category, but just barely).

No one had written anything close to "Dark Knight Returns" or "Year One" on the Superman side.
 
2012-12-29 05:19:27 PM  

Hebalo: Mentat: Superman is not boring, Superman is not lame, it just requires a certain degree of talent to write for that type of character that most comics writers don't have.

To a point, yes. But comparatively, there are a LOT of really good Batman graphic novels. Superman has maybe 3 decent ones, none of them amazing (maaaaybe All Star fits the category, but just barely).

No one had written anything close to "Dark Knight Returns" or "Year One" on the Superman side.


Batman is a normal (albeit rich) guy who physically worked his ass off to train his body and his mind to be at its peak. It's through his sheer determination that he is able to do what he does.

Superman was simply born on the right planet to have all of his power handed to him.
 
2012-12-29 05:21:11 PM  

AsprinBurn: Superman is the classic "god in love with a mortal" archetype


It's a matter of considerable irony that the people who have most captured the Superman persona isn't DC but Marvel - in their portrayal of Thor. There's a lot of similarities.

When you write a story about Superman, there's one truth that you have to get right or it doesn't work. That truth is that all other superhero books are about what the character does, but Superman stories have to be about who the character is. It isn't about 'what' or 'how', but about 'why' he does what he does.
 
2012-12-29 05:23:00 PM  

AsprinBurn: Superman is only boring if you don't understand the story.

Superman is the classic "god in love with a mortal" archetype, so any story about superman must, to work, be about the mortals in his life--not just Lane and Olson always. It has to be about character, about love and sacrifice, to work well as a story. Superman's true weakness isn't kryptonite or magic (yes, magic--it's in the books), it's love. Yet, Hollywood can't seem to make a Superman movie without kryptonite, and I'm getting tired of it. This one, I predict, will be no different.


You could have that archetype and a more interesting story if Superman wasn't so impervious to everything but kryptonite. Make him super strong like most other super heroes, but dramatically lower the threshold that it takes to kill him so that there is a sense that he's putting his life on the line, that he could die.
 
2012-12-29 05:24:19 PM  
They should have superman vs he man made into a movie just for the sake of it. Not sure who would play he man though.
 
2012-12-29 05:24:51 PM  

Mentat: Superman is not boring, Superman is not lame, it just requires a certain degree of talent to write for that type of character that most comics writers don't have.


Superman is lame. He's a full fledged god. He has no power limitations, has every power, and is completely immune to everything but magic rocks or magic.

Unless we're taking away all the super powers that make the escapism cool, super man is a tits up boring character because he's a GOD. There's no training or difficulty for him to overcome, it's all worthless challenges. And when he DOES have a fight? It's farking super-sayan Dragon Ball Z levels of stupid 'blowing up the sun to power punch' strength. Those characters are tepidly boring to watch because there's no real risk or harm to them, so why care? Especially since he has EVERY super power known to man, and has it better than the premier exemplar of it anyway.
 
2012-12-29 05:26:54 PM  
Superman is terrible.
 
2012-12-29 05:27:44 PM  

kroonermanblack: Superman is lame. He's a full fledged god. He has no power limitations, has every power, and is completely immune to everything but magic rocks or magic.


Because when you read a Batman comic or watch a movie, you're thinking that this could be the time that the caped crusader meets his end, right?
 
2012-12-29 05:30:17 PM  
Just do a live action All-Star Superman. I just saw the animated version and think that it could be done well live action. That being said, I am cautiously optimisitic about this Nolan/Snyder effort.
 
2012-12-29 05:30:27 PM  
Batman has the cool gadgets, the cool car, the cool suit, the tragic past... he is probably my favorite superhero... but he is there along with Superman.

The thing to me is that Superman represents the BEST that humanity could achieve as a moral standpoint. He is potential fully realized. He is a god among men, who could easily just blow shiat to pieces, and crown himself king and rule as he sees fit... but he decides to put his unmeasurable power to serve others. He decides to fight the intergalactic tyrants, and mad scientist and mad gods that want to put the world under their iron fists... and he decides to do it because he feels that is the right thing to do.

I know that it requires a certain degree of actual talent, but how interesting could be the story of a man that is pushed to be darker by enemies increasingly violent and dangerous and a world that keeps telling him that he is dumb and naive? Superman is someone that could see the world growing darker and darker and just stand on his principles and be determinate to be the last beacon of light if that's what is needed. And THAT is boring?

Hell, I'm asking you to do "To Kill a Mockingbird" with Superpowers...

As much as I really like heroes like Batman or Iron Man or anti-heroes like Deadpool or Wolverine, I'm kinda tired of the cliches that come along the dark, brooding and cynical type of character. Superman and Captain America probably aren't the coolest, but they are good men, and those characters are needed too.
 
2012-12-29 05:32:52 PM  

kroonermanblack: Especially since he has EVERY super power known to man, and has it better than the premier exemplar of it anyway.


Flash would like a word.
 
2012-12-29 05:37:30 PM  

DarkPascual: Superman and Captain America probably aren't the coolest, but they are good men, and those characters are needed too.


Yeah, we've lost our way. A little truth justice and the American way would be good right about now.
 
2012-12-29 05:39:58 PM  
For the love of God, just don't make Superman all dark and angsty. I hate how the fanboys have won and now everything has to be dark and serious or else they get their panties in a wad that directors aren't taking their favorite childhood hero/cartoon character seriously enough. Case in point: the persistent hate for the 60s Batman show. But it's a totally legit take on Batman. It was well-written, had good actors, and had a high budget (for its time). The writers knew exactly what they were doing and it works on different levels. It's a hell of a lot better then the dour and sanctimonious Dark Knight Rises and definitely better than the Burton/Schumacher messes of the 90s.

What I'm saying is - keep Superman lighthearted and don't turn him into Space Jesus. Not everything has to be dark and angry.
 
2012-12-29 05:40:19 PM  

Champion of the Sun: DarkPascual: Superman and Captain America probably aren't the coolest, but they are good men, and those characters are needed too.

Yeah, we've lost our way. A little truth justice and the American way would be good right about now.


BTW... what I said was totally from a narrative standpoint... Not being from the USA gives me certain difficulty to approach things the American way...
 
2012-12-29 05:43:21 PM  

DarkPascual: BTW... what I said was totally from a narrative standpoint... Not being from the USA gives me certain difficulty to approach things the American way...


Inside every furriner is an American just waiting to get out. Buy some guns and worship the rich, and you'll be welcomed with open arms. You're white, right?
 
2012-12-29 05:45:06 PM  
The problem with Superman isn't that the only thing that can hurt him is Kryptonite, or that the only memorable bad buy is Lex Luther, the problem is that Truth and Justice are no longer part of the American way.
 
2012-12-29 05:46:22 PM  

DarkPascual: how interesting could be the story of a man that is pushed to be darker by enemies increasingly violent and dangerous and a world that keeps telling him that he is dumb and naive?


They already tested that, in "Superman vs. The Elite". Check it out.

i.imgur.com

When Superman lowers himself to the level of his enemies, it's terrifying.

i.imgur.com

DarkPascual: As much as I really like heroes like Batman or Iron Man or anti-heroes like Deadpool or Wolverine, I'm kinda tired of the cliches that come along the dark, brooding and cynical type of character. Superman and Captain America probably aren't the coolest, but they are good men, and those characters are needed too.


Another guy after my own heart. My favorite comic characters are Supes, Cap and Cyclops (well, pre-2000 cyclops that wasn't destroyed by the writers). I like the good guys. Flawed is easy to write. Being a stand up guy is hard.
 
2012-12-29 05:51:24 PM  

DarkPascual: The thing to me is that Superman represents the BEST that humanity could achieve as a moral standpoint. He is potential fully realized. He is a god among men, who could easily just blow shiat to pieces, and crown himself king and rule as he sees fit... but he decides to put his unmeasurable power to serve others. He decides to fight the intergalactic tyrants, and mad scientist and mad gods that want to put the world under their iron fists... and he decides to do it because he feels that is the right thing to do.


Pretty much all super heroes do this. They either feel morally obligated to help others, or some event in their life compels them to use their powers or fortune for the betterment of mankind. One of the reasons I think Wolverine is such a popular super hero is because he falls outside of this common mold. He's self interested, but allows himself to get caught up in helping good guys fight bad guys (probably a more accurate reflection of how someone with super powers would act).

I know that it requires a certain degree of actual talent, but how interesting could be the story of a man that is pushed to be darker by enemies increasingly violent and dangerous and a world that keeps telling him that he is dumb and naive? Superman is someone that could see the world growing darker and darker and just stand on his principles and be determinate to be the last beacon of light if that's what is needed. And THAT is boring?

Well, this is pretty what Batman is all about. While Batman operates outside of the law, he doesn't resort to walking around with machine guns and killing people. No matter how vicious his enemies are, he sticks to his moral code. And the Nolan films have largely been about that -- that Batman is the "last beacon of light" despite being a vigilantly.

The problem with Superman, is that if there's never any real risk of him dying -- he's not risking his life to save humanity. At most, it disrupts his personal life. And it's hard to feel bad for someone who's omnipotent.
 
2012-12-29 05:52:22 PM  
I actually enjoyed Superman in the DC cartoons, but mostly when Batman is around. They really complement each other well. I have not read enough Superman comics, but that was because I couldn't get into them. However, didn't they just hook up Superman and Wonder Woman to make them more relevant again? Also they did with match.com I guess too. http://mashable.com/2012/08/27/superman-wonder-woman/

Also obligatory: Death and Return of Superman

Sums up Superman.
 
2012-12-29 05:52:24 PM  

Ryker's Peninsula: The problem with Superman isn't that the only thing that can hurt him is Kryptonite, or that the only memorable bad buy is Lex Luther, the problem is that Truth and Justice are no longer part of the American way.


Which is why What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way? was so good. It tackles that idea head on.

What if Superman played by everyone elses rules?
 
2012-12-29 05:56:02 PM  

velvet_fog: For the love of God, just don't make Superman all dark and angsty. I hate how the fanboys have won and now everything has to be dark and serious or else they get their panties in a wad that directors aren't taking their favorite childhood hero/cartoon character seriously enough. Case in point: the persistent hate for the 60s Batman show. But it's a totally legit take on Batman. It was well-written, had good actors, and had a high budget (for its time). The writers knew exactly what they were doing and it works on different levels. It's a hell of a lot better then the dour and sanctimonious Dark Knight Rises and definitely better than the Burton/Schumacher messes of the 90s.

What I'm saying is - keep Superman lighthearted and don't turn him into Space Jesus. Not everything has to be dark and angry.


Let me help you out here.

The two Richard Donner Superman films hold up so well because they were tongue-in-cheek -- Donner was well aware he was making a film where the hero wore a spandex bodysuit and red cape.

I'd argue that the Iron Man movies have been so popular because they also don't take themselves too seriously, that they don't try to be deep character studies of what makes a super hero tick.
 
2012-12-29 05:57:26 PM  
Well he's got this going for him, which is nice.

pdubyah.files.wordpress.com
 
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