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(Salon)   "We remember the killers' names, but not the names of the victims. We know the gory details. Media bloodlust is killing us as a society"   (salon.com ) divider line 182
    More: Obvious, Dylan Klebold, forensic psychologist, public university, public good, CHS  
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5549 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2012 at 2:21 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



182 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-29 03:00:50 PM  

mittromneysdog: 2) The identities of the shooters are important, newsworthy public information. Except in general terms, the identities of the victims are not. This is not because of any moral judgment positive or negative of either the shooters or the victims. It is simply because the shooter did something newsworthy, while the victims really did not.

3) Publicizing the identities of the shooters involves fewer privacy issues for victims and families than publicizing the identities of the victims. I feel for the families of the shooters, I really do. But there is no question that the newsworthiness of the shooters' identities outweighs their privacy concerns. For the victims, this is less clear.

I mean, why do we remember Hitler's name, but not the names of his millions of innocent victims? Historians' blood lust is killing our world, because there is clearly causation between mass homicidal tyranny and what gets written about in the history books.

That argument is only marginally dumber than the the argument offered in the headline.


You're confusing 'newsworthiness' with information that is actually useful or important to the public. The fact is that for a desperately unhappy person, who is bitter at the world and wants the whole world to know their suffering, their best chance is to go and commit a horrific murder and go down in history.

Most people are mentally stable enough to not want to take out their suffering on others and instead just kill themselves in a way that at most gets reported on page 12 of the local newspaper. But there's that small percentage who aren't content ending their own lives, but have to end that of others before they go. Familicide is the most common, but that's a different psychological problem, I think.

The media loves a shooting spree, and the more you kill, the more they'll talk about you. That's incentive enough for a relatively tiny number of young men who keep their feelings to themselves and have no one to talk them out of it.

It might also be a factor that they don't have the balls to kill themselves but once they've killed lots of innocent bystanders, they realise their lives are over anyway, so they may as well kill themselves. The guy that shot Giffords and the guy that shot up the Denver movie theater are notable in that they both survived, and both appear to be completely insane and dellusional, rather than bitter assholes who just want to make a point before they go.

Oh, and your point about genocidal leaders is utterly stupid, because they don't want to be remembered for their crimes, but for how great they were. No leader says 'I want to be known as the worst person in history', they say the exact opposite.
 
2012-12-29 03:00:55 PM  

Ed Willy: Semi-automatic high capacity guns useful for a killing spree are indubitably a new phenomenon


Pretty sure people were being shot to death by semi-automatic magazine fed weapons a century ago.
 
2012-12-29 03:02:09 PM  
Speak for yourself, Salon.com
 
2012-12-29 03:02:40 PM  

Alonjar: Ed Willy: Semi-automatic high capacity guns useful for a killing spree are indubitably a new phenomenon

Pretty sure people were being shot to death by semi-automatic magazine fed weapons a century ago.


Oh, and before that, instead of an insane kid at your school, it was some strange dudes who would come to your village and massacre every living creature with blunderbusses.
 
2012-12-29 03:03:49 PM  
i276.photobucket.com

FFS people, let's at least make the trolls get creative before responding.
 
2012-12-29 03:04:05 PM  
FREEE MAHRKEEEEET!!!!  INVISUHBAL HAANNNND!!!

/Humanity is naturally brutal
//civilization was Man's attempt to fight Human nature
///we are not civilized in the US
 
2012-12-29 03:04:37 PM  
I'm afraid the media is simply supplying demand in these cases.
 
2012-12-29 03:07:17 PM  

Alonjar: Ed Willy: Semi-automatic high capacity guns useful for a killing spree are indubitably a new phenomenon

Pretty sure people were being shot to death by semi-automatic magazine fed weapons a century ago.


Or incinerated by fireballs spewed from the maw of a giant metal tarantula.
 
2012-12-29 03:07:50 PM  
I have no idea what the shooter's name is. I didn't watch the news. I don't know what his victims look like either. It doesn't matter, I have a little cousin going to first grade so I can imagine what her head exploding looks like. I guess I just have to deal with the fact that one day some crazy person might make her head explode because you gun nuts need to masturbate to your guns without restricting semi-auto or having a registration or doing mental health checks. Cum away, American heroes!
 
2012-12-29 03:10:55 PM  
Oh look, another concerned soul who doesn't know the difference between "newsworthy" and "praiseworthy." Or between Page One and Page Six.

This article is republished every time a mass murderer or serial killer gets his picture in the paper.
 
2012-12-29 03:11:53 PM  

Zombie DJ: I remember Hitlers name but, gun to my head, couldn't tell you 5 people he killed.


Helen Keller, Amelia Eirhart, the Lindbergh baby, Lou Gehrig, and one of the Wayans brothers.
 
2012-12-29 03:12:05 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: We also tend to focus a bit too much on the weapon of choice while conveniently ignoring what might have driven the killer to that point.

Can we start talking about mental health yet?


Thank you. It needed to be said.
 
2012-12-29 03:12:29 PM  
SKEET SKEET SKEET GUN NUTS! This shower of semen is so much more important than our children's safety!
 
2012-12-29 03:14:01 PM  
Yes...do tell us, blogger

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-29 03:15:15 PM  
So clearly we need to repeal the 1st Amendment and expand the 2nd Amendment. Right?
 
2012-12-29 03:16:26 PM  

furiousxgeorge: SKEET SKEET SKEET GUN NUTS! This shower of semen is so much more important than our children's safety!




nathantimmel.com
 
2012-12-29 03:19:06 PM  

letrole: Spree shootings are caused by a lack of personal restraint. In some cases, such as Charles Whitman, the fellow was suffering from madness with an organic cause ie a brain tumour. He left diaries and letters that showed jumbled and irrational thoughts.

But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society.

1. If suicide is no longer a sin,
2. If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,
3. If fame or celebrity is rewarded without merit,
4. If Right and Wrong are no longer absolute,
5. If erratic behaviour is no longer shameful,
6. If internal or self justification is held as a virtue,

-- then it will all continue along this path until society completely collapses, and a new order reforms from the ashes


I'm already tired of this copy/paste post and I've only seen it twice.
 
2012-12-29 03:19:46 PM  
letrole: Government used to be much smaller.
HotWingConspiracy:You're just inventing shiat now [...].

Government used to be smaller. That refers to less expenditure, number of federal employees, as well as the scope of areas that various departments administer and control.

Whether this is a good or bad thing is of no importance to me. It seems to be important to you. You went off on a political tangent that frankly cannot be justified by fact.

Government used to be smaller. Grass be green. Sky be blue.
 
2012-12-29 03:22:50 PM  
I don't remember the guy in Colorado's name, or that guy who shot all those school kids.
 
2012-12-29 03:24:23 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Weaver95:   what DOES America stand for these days?  Truth?  not after the lies Romney told during this last election cycle.  Justice?  can any country that created/funded and runs secret CIA torture prisons be considered 'just'?  I think not.

you whine about Romney's campaign lies but say nothing about 0bama's campaign lies.
then you whine about CIA torture prisons but you say nothing about 0bama killing US Citizens without benefit of trial via drones, much less how he runs the Justice Department or Homeland security.

So what DOES your America stand for these days?  Based on your post, it stands for partisan hackery.


I tend to come down harder on the GOP because of their claims of moral superiority.  they're supposedly the party of personal responsibility and family values...but I see NOTHING in that party except for greed, lust and hypocrisy.  if you are going to claim to be the party of jesus and you pervert christian values in order to gain worldly power...you damn well better get used to being mocked and hated for it.  Occupy Wall Street has done more to follow the teaching of Jesus Christ than the ENTIRE leadership roster of the Republican party...and OWS is secular, humanist and partly comprised of hipster atheist jerks.

so yeah, I put a lot of blame on the GOP for destroying the 'American way of life'.  they pervert religion to get elected and use fear to keep voters in line.  they exploit situations for personal and corporate advantage, and seem hell bent on destroying what little is left of a rapidly shrinking middle class.  now i'm sure you want to change the subject and talk about the flaws of the Democratic party (of which there are many) but...and I say this with the greatest of respect - STFU and pay attention.  I'm talking about the REPUBLICAN party.  i'm talking about the flaws, weaknesses and practices of the Republicans.  lets stay focused on them for a moment.  CAN you stay focused on what's wrong with the GOP?  Because I've gotta tell ya - when I stopped and really thought about what the Republicans actually stood for...that was the moment I realized I wasn't actually a Republican anymore.  there is something deeply flawed on the Republican side of the aisle.  If the GOP doesn't confront those flaws, if they don't wake the hell up and fix their problems....then they're going to be run over by history.  they'll fail, fall apart, scattered to the winds forever.

pay attention now, because this is the important part - fix...your gotdamn....party.  admit you've got problems, admit you've become too radical for the majority of voters in this nation and move back to the center.  do it, or the voters in this country are going to force you to pay a very heavy price.  if you can't admit the Republicans are wrong on almost every issue and challenge we face today...then I have no sympathy for you, or for the Republican party as a whole.
 
2012-12-29 03:26:09 PM  

epoc_tnac: mittromneysdog: 2) The identities of the shooters are important, newsworthy public information. Except in general terms, the identities of the victims are not. This is not because of any moral judgment positive or negative of either the shooters or the victims. It is simply because the shooter did something newsworthy, while the victims really did not.

...

I mean, why do we remember Hitler's name, but not the names of his millions of innocent victims? Historians' blood lust is killing our world, because there is clearly causation between mass homicidal tyranny and what gets written about in the history book.

...

That argument is only marginally dumber than the the argument offered in the headline.

You're confusing 'newsworthiness' with information that is actually useful or important to the public. The fact is that for a desperately unhappy person, who is bitter at the world and wants the whole world to know their suffering, their best chance is to go and commit a horrific murder and go down in history.

Most people are mentally stable enough to not want to take out their suffering on others and instead just kill themselves in a way that at most gets reported on page 12 of the local newspaper. But there's that small percentage who aren't content ending their own lives, but have to end that of others before they go. Familicide is the most common, but that's a different psychological problem, I think.

The media loves a shooting spree, and the more you kill, the more they'll talk about you. That's incentive enough for a relatively tiny number of young men who keep their feelings to themselves and have no one to talk th ...


mittromneysdog is 100% correct. If anything is stupid, it's the idea that news media should censor themselves for fear of encouraging psychopaths. For the most part, these people don't want fame. Absolutely nothing in the pasts of Adam Lanza or William Spengler (there, I said their names!) indicated a hunger for publicity. They just wanted to hurt people, preferably as many as possible.
 
2012-12-29 03:30:35 PM  
I find it mind blowing that this country considers affordable medical care to be 'tyrannical' government control while at the same time making sure that powerful weapons are easily and readily available to even mentally ill individuals.  all you need is the cash, and you can get hold of a surprising amount of weaponry in a relatively short period of time.  But mental health screening and/or treatment?  THAT'S socialisms!  making sure crazy people don't get treated is 'government oppression'.

then along comes the press to film the carnage for posterity.  the rest of the world must think we're all insane or something.
 
2012-12-29 03:31:42 PM  

had98c: The killer has one name, the victims 27. It's a lot easier to remember one name than 27. Just sayin'.

On a serious note, I don't think the media is the problem. They're just reporting what we want to see/hear. The problem is us, not the media.


Why do we remember Billy the Kid? The James Gang? lucky Luciano? Because we glorify the scalawags. Bad Boys always get the girls, including the pussified press. We'll always remember the outlaws
 
2012-12-29 03:32:52 PM  

letrole: Government used to be smaller. That refers to less expenditure, number of federal employees, as well as the scope of areas that various departments administer and control


The population used to be smaller too, didn't it, Mr. Troll.
 
2012-12-29 03:32:56 PM  
"But if everyone's mentally ill then no one will be allowed to buy guns!"
"Book 'em, Dr. Phil..."
 
2012-12-29 03:34:02 PM  

Mikeyworld: had98c: The killer has one name, the victims 27. It's a lot easier to remember one name than 27. Just sayin'.

On a serious note, I don't think the media is the problem. They're just reporting what we want to see/hear. The problem is us, not the media.

Why do we remember Billy the Kid? The James Gang? lucky Luciano? Because we glorify the scalawags. Bad Boys always get the girls, including the pussified press. We'll always remember the outlaws


But we also remember Marshall Dillon and Wyatt Earp.
 
2012-12-29 03:34:05 PM  
Speak for yourself.
 
2012-12-29 03:34:52 PM  
Uh, knowing the shooter's name and not all the victims is perfectly normal. I don't really want a list of the victims. And just because journalists are subhuman does not mean that society is going the same route. But hopefully we'll just find a way to make this a big political spittlefest with idiots thinking they have joined the correct party and dying to show everyone how brainwashed they are.
 
2012-12-29 03:35:20 PM  

letrole: letrole: Government used to be much smaller.
HotWingConspiracy:You're just inventing shiat now [...].

Government used to be smaller. That refers to less expenditure, number of federal employees, as well as the scope of areas that various departments administer and control.

Whether this is a good or bad thing is of no importance to me. It seems to be important to you. You went off on a political tangent that frankly cannot be justified by fact.


I didn't bring up small government.

Government used to be smaller. Grass be green. Sky be blue.

Thing is, you're wrong on a per capita basis in terms of cash and practical basis in terms of law. Also, the size of today's government has been trending downward.
 
2012-12-29 03:35:21 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Mikeyworld: had98c: The killer has one name, the victims 27. It's a lot easier to remember one name than 27. Just sayin'.

On a serious note, I don't think the media is the problem. They're just reporting what we want to see/hear. The problem is us, not the media.

Why do we remember Billy the Kid? The James Gang? lucky Luciano? Because we glorify the scalawags. Bad Boys always get the girls, including the pussified press. We'll always remember the outlaws

But we also remember Marshall Dillon and Wyatt Earp.


but we tend to forget about Tesla and think Edison was some kind of nice guy, hardworking genius.
 
2012-12-29 03:37:48 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: The My Little Pony Killer: We also tend to focus a bit too much on the weapon of choice while conveniently ignoring what might have driven the killer to that point.

Can we start talking about mental health yet?

Thank you. It needed to be said.


Absolutely this↑↑↑↑↑

It's not movies, video games, music, magazines, or any other form of media.

It's not the type of guns, the availability of guns, the caliber of guns, the cosmetic design features of the guns, the magazine capacity, or any other variable pertaining to the guns themselves.

It is because (almost without exception) the friends, families, school administrators, and mental health professionals have begged for something to be done before the crazy person killed someone. But, they have been denied by a system that has been broken since the 1980's.


Link

Link


We need to change that system and make it work again. Make it easier to commit someone who is clearly violent. At the very least require some sort of supervision that ensures those who are incapable or unwilling actually take the medications that prevent them from becoming violent.

The newspapers need to stop publishing the names and addresses of legal gun owners and start publishing the names of the judges who deny commitment of the dangerous lunatics who are doing the killing.

The rest of the media need to stop blowing the stories of these tragedies completely out of proportion and perpetuating a constant state of fear.

The government needs to stop trying to restrict the rights of the law abiding based on the actions of the criminals.
 
2012-12-29 03:39:21 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: steamingpile: Nu uh, its all evil gun manufacturers fault! They should all be sued to oblivion so as to not spread their evil to everyone!

They really should be, but they wisely paid for indulgences and their employees in our federal government granted them special dispensation.


I was being sarcastic, the problem is you are too obviously outed as trolling too many threads so we all knew you would get drawn in.

Oh and there is no direct line you can draw from video games to gun availability, but that has never stopped you from arguing before, just like you asked someone to prove government used to be smaller......
 
2012-12-29 03:40:36 PM  

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: Weaver95:   what DOES America stand for these days?  Truth?  not after the lies Romney told during this last election cycle.  Justice?  can any country that created/funded and runs secret CIA torture prisons be considered 'just'?  I think not.

you whine about Romney's campaign lies but say nothing about 0bama's campaign lies.
then you whine about CIA torture prisons but you say nothing about 0bama killing US Citizens without benefit of trial via drones, much less how he runs the Justice Department or Homeland security.

So what DOES your America stand for these days?  Based on your post, it stands for partisan hackery.

I tend to come down harder on the GOP because of their claims of moral superiority.  they're supposedly the party of personal responsibility and family values...but I see NOTHING in that party except for greed, lust and hypocrisy.  if you are going to claim to be the party of jesus and you pervert christian values in order to gain worldly power...you damn well better get used to being mocked and hated for it.  Occupy Wall Street has done more to follow the teaching of Jesus Christ than the ENTIRE leadership roster of the Republican party...and OWS is secular, humanist and partly comprised of hipster atheist jerks.


Wow. Jesus raped and pillaged? I must have missed that chapter in the Bible. Obviously, not everyone in OWS looted and violated but a good percentage did. My partisan mind can acknowledge the otherside makes some points sometimes and isn't a full force of evil. You seem to have lost that aspect of reality. You continue to look for others to blame during your decline and isolation, but ultimately all responsibility lies on your shoulders.
 
2012-12-29 03:42:01 PM  
Why should I remember either, unless I knew them?

I'll remember the locations more than the names -- except for serial killers, just because they're such an odd anomaly in human behavior.

People do bad things. I'm not obligated to cry and mourn every time that happens around the world. I am obligated to do my best not to facilitate bad things, but truly, I'm not going to set up a candlelight vigil for every unjust death on the freaking planet.
 
2012-12-29 03:43:57 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Thing is, you're wrong on a per capita basis in terms of cash and practical basis in terms of law. Also, the size of today's government has been trending downward.


No
 
2012-12-29 03:43:59 PM  

iheartscotch: panem et circenses.

Seriously.

If you are not familiar with the expression; it means bread and circuses; or in this case, it means bead and games.

The phrase originates from Rome in Satire X of the Roman satirist and poet Juvenal.

Basically; the roman senate/emperors would provide food and gladiator matches to keep the people from realizing how royally they were getting screwed.

Instead of gladiators and crusty bread; we get fast food and 24 hour news. While we argue about whatever is having its 15 minutes; politicians and special interest groups are robbing us blind.

Both sides are responsible.

/ I know, I know; you know of some mitigating factor for your side. I ask you, is it really a mitigating factor if it isn't 100% likely to get us out of our present circumstances? I know, I know; the other side is worse. They have been saying that about those bastards for years.


Well said.
 
2012-12-29 03:45:12 PM  
Nemo's Brother:
Wow. Jesus raped and pillaged? I must have missed that chapter in the Bible. Obviously, not everyone in OWS looted and violated but a good percentage did.

WTF are you talking about?


My partisan mind can acknowledge the otherside makes some points sometimes and isn't a full force of evil. You seem to have lost that aspect of reality. You continue to look for others to blame during your decline and isolation, but ultimately all responsibility lies on your shoulders.

you do realize that's complete bullshiat, right?
 
2012-12-29 03:46:03 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Why should I remember either, unless I knew them?


Thats a bigger point, I dont know any name but thats mainly because I chose not to watch any of the coverage, either I caught shows on DVR, used Roku, or just used the tablet and missed every single story on it after the initial barrage.
 
2012-12-29 03:46:31 PM  
It's not the media. The media is only interested in what you're interested in.

/i mean, everyone else but you, of course
 
2012-12-29 03:47:23 PM  
Well, duh. We also idolize people who throw a ball back and forth, calling them, "heroes." We give them free scholarships to schools that real scholars could only dream of getting into. Because they can play with balls, but can't even write a coherent sentence. We glorify chicks who sing songs that were written for them, simply because they are attractive and can dance simultaneously with a troop of other dancers. But these performers don't even know how to play one instrument nor read one note. Media humps murderers because people love to watch gore and then sob into their posts on Facebook that it's a terrible tragedy because, somehow, that will make them a better person for caring about it publicly on their chosen blog. Of course there is everything wrong with society.
 
2012-12-29 03:51:04 PM  
It does society a service to not hide the identity and life story of a killer.  Private people/institutions want to study these guys.  There was probably quite a bit of benefit to knowing all about Jeffery Dahmer, the BTK Killer, etc.

Experts can learn and debate what drove these men to madness.  And maybe provide us with signs that someone else may be that type of person.
 
2012-12-29 03:51:20 PM  
Weaver95: I find it mind blowing that this country considers affordable medical care to be 'tyrannical' government control while at the same time making sure that powerful weapons are easily and readily available to even mentally ill individuals.

One of the biggest problems that people have with universal health coverage is the inclusion of social programs and public assistance.

And yes, a lot of it goes back to the protestant work ethic and puritanical standards of behaviour. Only the most obtuse revisionists seem to think that the American Experiment has succeeded thus far without any benefit from these institutions. Remember, these were the norm for the majority of American history -- it's libertine excess and amoral self-actualisation that are new to the scene.

Perhaps it's worth eliminating rubbers for indigents, abortion on demand, and free school lunches for kids who have x-boxes and mobile phones. It might make universal health care a bit more palatable to those who have had paid their own way until now.
 
2012-12-29 03:53:11 PM  

magicgoo: We glorify chicks who sing songs that were written for them...


Whoa, hey. No need to bring the Dicksy Chicks into this.
 
2012-12-29 04:00:48 PM  
It's not just "outlaws" and "bad guys" we remember, and its not the mere fact that they're "bad" that draws our attention. We gravitate towards anything that seems personally incredible or unfathomable.

There is really very little difference between our fascination with criminals and our fascination with athletes, actors, musicians, scientists, inventors, politicians, etc. We marvel because in most cases they have done or are doing something we either can't do ourselves or would never have thought of doing on our own.

And yes, this also means that occasionally we are so inspired by what we've previously considered unthinkable or undoable that we attempt to emulate -- even improve upon -- what we've witnessed. Such is the magic of inspiration. We may like to believe its only used for good but occasionally it's used for bad. Either way, we are never NOT going to be fascinated with what falls outside our own sense of normal and personal capability.

Now then, build an action plan around that.
 
2012-12-29 04:01:27 PM  
letrole: Government used to be smaller. That refers to less expenditure, number of federal employees, as well as the scope of areas that various departments administer and control

cameroncrazy1984: The population used to be smaller too, didn't it, Mr. Troll.

Yes. And there used to be only 48 states. Then they added Alaska and Hawaii. And before aeroplanes were invented, the FAA didn't exist. You go ahead and let those random thoughts continue to bounce around inside your skull. But don't come back until something relevant pops out.

And my surname is Le Trôle.
 
2012-12-29 04:04:31 PM  
I have trouble deconstructing the mechanism of empathy here,

99.9% of the country never knew one of the victims. As such it is not a direct loss, there was never a personal relationship to begin with.

The victims were unlikely to qualify as "heroes", there's no evidence that they acted unusually to save others (the principal and psychologist might be exceptions, but there's no evidence). They of course did nothing wrong, and did not deserve to be harmed in any way, let alone killed.

I'm just confused as the deep personal relevance to complete strangers. I see two ways to interpret this.

One is that it's a higher, transcendent form of empathy and love if it's not tied to a real-world relationship.
OR, two, that it cheapens and objectifies empathy and love, that you never actually cared about this person specifically because you didn't even know them, but now care for them because they died tragically, and only share empathy out of flocking behavior, because the news told you to.

Perhaps one cares through identifying with the story. For example, Rosa Park's story on the bus was of interest because so many had in some way experienced the same or similar problem in their own life, and her struggle represented theirs. But in this case the life story is not the issue, only the tragic, senseless, unprompted, just plain unfortunate freak death.

I also noticed the term "honor" the victims of such tragedies. Honor denoted honorable actions or character, which aren't part of the story when it's a senseless tragedy like 9-11, school shooting, bridge collapse, or natural disaster. I'm not sure what nature of the term is intended here.

The potential horror is that essentially all meanings of the term "honor" is associated with greatness, fame, and merit. Yet the sole element of their life putting them into this set is dying tragically. That's what bothered me about the usage of this term, it literally equates to "these people died in a really great way", a glorious death? Well, that's why I hate the term.
 
2012-12-29 04:05:29 PM  

Matthew Keene: I still don't know who killed JFK>


The more I study the movie JFK by Oliver Stone, the more I'm convinced it was suicide
 
2012-12-29 04:11:27 PM  

iollow: If this is true, why has violence been going down in America steadily over the last 20 years?


Maybe because the media says so. Who else can we count on to inform us? Pravda me thinks.
 
2012-12-29 04:13:13 PM  

Frankenstorm: So self-absorbed. Someone in the media blames the media. Look within yourself, dumbass.


Um, isn't that what you've just said they're doing?
 
2012-12-29 04:14:55 PM  
HotWingConspiracy: Thing is, you're wrong on a per capita basis in terms of cash and practical basis in terms of law. Also, the size of today's government has been trending downward.

Random department has annual budget of $1000. A proposed budget of $1200 is submitted for next year. Not all line items get ticked, so the approved budget is $1150.

Voila, the department faces a 5% reduction, not a 15% increase. This is the figure that gets used in discussion by partisans and political whores and people who use weaslish words like 'trending'.

.
 
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