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(Some Guy)   Apparently Linus Torvalds can channel Steve Jobs when he wants to. (warning: serious nerdspeak mixed with Not safe for work language)   (article.gmane.org) divider line 11
    More: Amusing, regression, kde  
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2652 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Dec 2012 at 10:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-29 12:12:42 PM  
2 votes:
I wish we had a Linus Torvalds where I work.

We've got some developers that could use a proper talking-to.
2012-12-31 08:38:34 AM  
1 votes:
Advice to guy that Torvalds beat down: RTFM.
2012-12-29 10:11:55 PM  
1 votes:
Oh, yeah, and not only is Linus being a total asshole, he is being a terrible manager.  You are always supposed to praise in public and criticize in private.

He just publicly humiliated some really talented guy who was donating his time and skill.  Maybe he was screwing up (maybe not when you look at the details.)  It takes a REALLY mature person to be able to go through a drubbing like that and not feel deeply angry and resentful-- probably only a tiny percent of people could.

shiat like this only hurts Linux in the long run. There are precious few people who understand how the Linux kernel works even in general terms, and far fewer still who know it well enough to work on it.  Linus should be inspiring the not-so-great kernel programmers to do better, not drive them away.
2012-12-29 06:43:19 PM  
1 votes:

Benjimin_Dover: Phil Payne: Torvalds is correct in every point in this. If a program works before a kernel commit and doesn't afterwards it is obviously the kernel fix that broke things. What the maintainer is doing is like saying a car was running just fine until you put water in the gas tank and start blaming the radio because the car wont run.

Just out of curiosity...

if a program has worked for a very long time by doing something that it should never had been able to do, say by exploiting a known bug in the OS. And then along comes a patch that fixes the bug in the OS and the program stops working, that is considered something to be avoided because it "breaks a userspace application" and therefore is bad?


Yeah, that's dumb. Linus is being pretty over the top here. There are no absolutes in this arena--there are userspace apps that exploit kernel bugs (intentionally OR inadvertantly). If the bug is harmless, it may make sense to grandfather in this behavior and create a new API. Or special case what the app is doing.

Not all bugs are harmless, though, even if the apps that exploit them are.
2012-12-29 05:55:16 PM  
1 votes:

Phil Payne: Torvalds is correct in every point in this. If a program works before a kernel commit and doesn't afterwards it is obviously the kernel fix that broke things. What the maintainer is doing is like saying a car was running just fine until you put water in the gas tank and start blaming the radio because the car wont run.


Just out of curiosity...

if a program has worked for a very long time by doing something that it should never had been able to do, say by exploiting a known bug in the OS. And then along comes a patch that fixes the bug in the OS and the program stops working, that is considered something to be avoided because it "breaks a userspace application" and therefore is bad?
2012-12-29 02:53:27 PM  
1 votes:
This used to be the same attitude that Dave Cutler applied when he ran Windows NT development. If a program can bring down the OS, it's entirely the OS's fault.

No excuses.
2012-12-29 02:14:24 PM  
1 votes:

rekoil: What's interesting is that reading further down the thread, turns out the change in kernel behavior Linus got so pissed about was actually a bug (the changed error code was supposed to stay inside the kernel, not sent to userspace processes). So, like so many managers, he burst in guns blazing way too soon.

Linus actually does this quite often, and 90% of the time for the right reasons. Unfortunately this is not one of those times.


Three points:

1. Why change error codes? Period. This is a definite backwards-compatibility issue. Even if it is "wrong", you don't change it and risk breaking things.
2. As somebody pointed out, "ENOENT from ioctl does deserve a few curse words". I/O has nothing to do with pathing.
3. Mauro whole approach to the issue was farked from the beginning and he deserved a few more cuss words for that.
2012-12-29 01:04:48 PM  
1 votes:
This is the difference between the Bazaar and the Cathedral. The Bazaar is not afraid of telling you to SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH WHEN REAL CODERS ARE TALKING! And they are not afraid to do it publicly.

Good on Linus. Some dumbasses need a biatchslap now and then.
2012-12-29 12:55:04 PM  
1 votes:
ENOENT from ioctl does deserve a few curse words
2012-12-29 11:33:44 AM  
1 votes:
i236.photobucket.com
wee [TotalFark]
2012-12-29 09:19:56 AM  
1 votes:

Gonz: seems like pretty much the opposite of Jobs to me.


Yeah, I don't see it either.  Also, what Torvalds is saying is 100% valid from a technical standpoint.
 
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