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12648 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2012 at 10:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-29 11:06:24 AM

Rootus: I had freedom until I was 35, now I have two kids. Yeah, freedom was great, enjoyed every minute of it. And yep, I hated kids, still do in fact. Except mine. Couldn't imagine life without them.

IMO make your choice as an adult (in other words, 25+) and don't look back. You'll make the right choice. Some people are definitely not well suited to raising kids, and recognizing that would save everyone a headache.

/prophylactics should be plentiful and free, it's a good investment


I agree, make your decisions now while you still can-my old man became a father at 28 and by the time the kid is off on his own we will both still have another half of our lives ahead of us and look forward to it.

Any Farkers interested, your local Planned Parenthood clinic offers free condoms on the front desk shelf, take as many as you wish, no questions asked.
 
2012-12-29 11:07:38 AM
We are programmed to reproduce, and our brains are wired to get rewards from having kids.
 
2012-12-29 11:07:47 AM

BlousyBrown: There are a lot of people who should not have children, and I'm one of those people. I recognize that.
I've been so lucky to find a great guy who doesn't want them either. I don't think it's selfish to not have
children, for me it's just the responsible choice.


I like the cut of your jibe
 
2012-12-29 11:08:04 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: I have one kid and do not plan on having more.
/What do I get?


Perspective.
 
2012-12-29 11:08:33 AM
ctrl+f 'breeders'....Phase not found


Who are you people and what have you done with the farkers?
 
2012-12-29 11:08:50 AM

MBooda: What Is It Like To Be an Adult and Not Have Kids?

Nice, except for the annoying compulsion to tell everybody What Is It Like To Be an Adult and Not Have Kids.


LOL... THIS.

It's not for everyone, and lots of kids have crappy parents because of it, but it's no freaking merit badge to state that you'd be a crappy parent.

I do acknowledge and applaud those that do recognize this and get fixed, but a simple "not for me" is enough. (and no, I don't want to hear about your dog, just as much as you don't want to hear about my kids).
 
2012-12-29 11:14:12 AM

Tommy Moo: Mouser: Life: It's not about you.

Why the hell shouldn't it be? No, seriously. What cosmic principle did I ever swear fealty to that demands I should sacrifice my happiness for another person? Why is having one or two kids your sacred duty to those potential kids, but not the 5th or 6th? I'm a man. I could, in principle, sire thousands of potential kids. Am I wrong to not bring them into the world? Then what's so special about the first one?

I don't want kids right now because I don't think they would make me happy. If that changes one day, then I will have one. But not more than one, because I want to contribute to negative population growth. Anyone who has more than two kids and calls him/herself an environmentalist is a farking hypocrite.


And this, students, is a textbook example of the narcissism that characterizes immaturity.

As for the "what cosmic principle" thing, you are a human. You did not choose to be born a human, but a human is what you are. As such, you function (or not) according to the "design specifications" of our species. Over a century of psychology (and I mean all of it, this is one of the few things that Skinner and Rogers and Adler and Frankl and Baumeister and Zimbardo all agree on) that the more you make life all about you, the worse you do at pretty much every level. High levels of functionality are found when you willingly give of yourself. It doesn't have to be kids, but it does have to be something other than the all-consuming ego.
 
2012-12-29 11:16:43 AM
45 YO and three kids.

Its pretty clear at this point that they'll be my only worthwhile accomplishment.
 
2012-12-29 11:22:17 AM
45 YO and kids are grown, and they have turned into the most awesome, productive members of society. Moved out at 18, got good jobs after college, and have never asked for money. Hubby and I are relatively young, financially secure and carefree at this point. That is my reward for 18 years of losing freedom, having no money and the aggravation of raising 2 kids 18 months apart. It really made it all worth it.
 
2012-12-29 11:22:22 AM

BlousyBrown: There are a lot of people who should not have children, and I'm one of those people. I recognize that.
I've been so lucky to find a great guy who doesn't want them either. I don't think it's selfish to not have
children, for me it's just the responsible choice.


That about sums it up for me (although I found a great gal).

I've heard the "selfish" accusation before. I've never understood how it's selfish to not bring more children into an already overpopulated world.
 
2012-12-29 11:23:25 AM
As a new father (11 months) of a COMPLETELY unexpected child from a friend (one night stand) I can only say this :

I'm really farking glad I'm 36, have a career, have lived a ridiculously fun, irresponsible, dangerous, life that has included living in many of the major cities in this country. His mom is 26 and it's just now dawning on her, i think (hopeful), that she isn't going to get that. It's farking done - unless she wants to be a bad parent. She realizes now how incredibly irresponsible it was for her to have a child in her financial, family and mental state. She, and the boy, are lucky i'm not some deadbeat shiathead like so many guys are (it's pretty amazing to find out just how many assholes simply walk away! ) and that I make enough money to adequately (and then some) make sure little DV is taken care of.

I guess my point is this : Kids are a lot more fun and rewarding than i ever thought, but i would recommend waiting until after 30 and you have already had a chance to do some fun stuff (whatever that may be). It's a lot of work. LOT OF WORK.

I feel pretty lucky to have this little guy in my life, but i sure as heck wasn't planning on it.

img703.imageshack.us
 
pla
2012-12-29 11:28:22 AM
MBooda : Nice, except for the annoying compulsion to tell everybody What Is It Like To Be an Adult and Not Have Kids.

Ahahahaahah... Good one, MBooda!

For every thread like this where we DINKs get to rant, we get to endure a hundred of you breeders constantly trying to justify your own life-choices, on a daily basis.

"Oh, you'd make such a good father!" - No. No, I would not.
"But don't you want kids?" - Nope. Simple enough? So why did you ask again this week?
"Who will carry on your genes/legacy/name?" - US genomics? The census bureau? I don't care?
"Damnit pla, I want grandkids!" - Well then you'd better have a chat with dad before menopause hits!
"Who will take care of you when you get old?" - You mean like your grudging monthly visit to "the home" to see your parents?

No. I don't have a compulsion to tell everyone. I visibly have a LIFE outside school functions and doctor appointments, which does all the "telling" I need.
 
2012-12-29 11:30:39 AM
i512.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-29 11:31:15 AM
Really, I'm the first?

Louis CK on single people.
 
2012-12-29 11:32:28 AM

Eegah: BlousyBrown: There are a lot of people who should not have children, and I'm one of those people. I recognize that.
I've been so lucky to find a great guy who doesn't want them either. I don't think it's selfish to not have
children, for me it's just the responsible choice.

That about sums it up for me (although I found a great gal).

I've heard the "selfish" accusation before. I've never understood how it's selfish to not bring more children into an already overpopulated world.


It's from bitter parents. You find that parents that are truly happy with their choice, and there are a great many of them, don't feel the need to harass you about having children. My cousins are like that, they have two kids, couldn't be happier with their family, and never give me any shiat for having none and having no plans for any. They made their choice, they are happy in it, they don't feel the need to harp on others.

However there are more than a few parents who are bitter and resentful to people without children and the freedom they have. They are not happy with their choice and so justify it as the only "correct" choice. They hate on those who did things differently because it shows them what they want and cannot have.

As a practical matter, it can be a rather unselfish act to not have kids. If we are to have a stable world, we need to stop the massive population growth. No that can be done China style where the government enforces shiat... or it can be done in a voluntary fashion. Some people have no children and thus others that want more than 2 can have it, and not affect growth.
 
2012-12-29 11:32:46 AM
Had three kids, wish I had more. Too old now. Some of my best memories are of when we were young, almost broke, and found free things to do with the family. We managed to survive just fine.
 
2012-12-29 11:33:33 AM
i'm 33, single, with no kids. and to be honest it kind of sucks. don't get me wrong, i enjoyed the hell out of my 20s, and at this point in my life i have financial and personal freedom that my married-with-kids friends lack. but i'm bored.

i was single and childless for a long time. it was fun, but now i want to move on to something new. i can't see myself being single and childless the rest of my life, i just think i'll be bored to death in another couple years. i want the challenge and the experience of raising children, i want to see what that's like.
 
2012-12-29 11:34:54 AM
Kids are an investment for your old age. Not so much for financial support nowadays, but still for help with your care if you are frail, and for having someone in your life who understands you after friends start dying and moving away.

For this purpose, a niece or nephew could work, though.
 
2012-12-29 11:39:45 AM
I don't mind the kids, but I wish I could get rid of my wife.
 
2012-12-29 11:43:49 AM
FTA~ I knew that I had made the right choice. <b>I wasn't "made" to be a mother. I had spared a child from having to have me as one.</b>

A very powerful statement.
 
2012-12-29 11:47:06 AM
FTA~ I knew that I had made the right choice. I wasn't "made" to be a mother. I had spared a child from having to have me as one.

A very powerful statement.

-now with Formatting Buttons-
 
2012-12-29 11:47:55 AM

ramblinwreck: I miss those days of independence and being DINKs, but it's hard to imagine life without my two kids.


THIS.

/sitting at daughter's dining table while she cooks brekkie and the two grandsons lounge about
//gonna go shoot BB guns with them later and build the basketball hoop thingie we bought them for xmas
///then drive home Monday to our two Labs and a cat
 
2012-12-29 11:51:48 AM
I chose cats over kids. No diapers (which are expensive and suck to change) and I don't have to pay for college educations for my cat snowflakes.
/And I can easily afford to drive BMWs.
//Helped raise my niece when I was 18. What a pain in the arse she was.
///Now she has a crotchfruit that's 18 months old. She complains constantly about it's behavior.
 
2012-12-29 11:58:20 AM

pla: namatad : How are 2-3 dogs at a time not the same as having kids that never grow up?
publikenemy : Is taking care of a dog or cat not a PIA sometimes?

Imagine a ferret that understands the destructive power of fire and power tools.

Imagine a dog that costs $2k/year in doctors visits and you can't chose "the shot" instead of that insanely expensive procedure.

Imagine leaving your 7YO home alone for the weekend with just a giant bowl of food and a fresh litterbox.

Sure, sometimes, I need to trim mats out of my cat's fur. Take them to their yearly vet visit ($150, done until next year). I play with them daily before feeding them. And the rest of they day, they do their thing, I do mine, occasionally I'll give them a scritch on the chin if one comes within arm's length.

The difference? Parents define their lives around parenting. I just "have" a mostly-self-entertaining pair of cats.


True enough, more problems to overcome equals greater reward, as do most things in life. Also with a child, most people have a life long love instead of a 10 or 15 year one. Plus, it's a deeper and more rewarding relationship for obvious reasons.

It's not or everyone though..or so you would think. I didn't think it was for me either, but nature takes over and most people do find it rewarding.
 
2012-12-29 12:06:01 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: We are programmed to reproduce, and our brains are wired to get rewards from having kids.


'We' aren't all wired the same way. This world should be grateful not everyone has the desire to reproduce. The population would be 100 times the number we have now.

All of this pro family talk stinks of Christian anti-gay propaganda anyway.

img690.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-29 12:07:25 PM
I like how TFA's argument for kids is basically "shiat, I'm bored. Better have kids."
 
2012-12-29 12:09:26 PM
I had a pain in the neck
But then he went to college
 
2012-12-29 12:11:47 PM

Eegah: That about sums it up for me (although I found a great gal).
I've heard the "selfish" accusation before. I've never understood how it's selfish to not bring more children into an already overpopulated world.


It's selfish if your reason for not having kids is so that you can have more money. Unless you're dirt poor, that is a selfish reason.

But if you'd rather have money than anything else, just as well you don't have any kids anyway. Try to keep it that way.
 
2012-12-29 12:14:04 PM
Until 27, I never had the desire to have kids. Ever. My family was told long ago and stopped bothering us but acquaintances/other relatives are more annoying. Been together for 10+ years, bought the house, bought the seemingly family-oriented car, fiancé settled into good job, finishing my graduate degree, got engaged and still nothing. The questions have been coming fast and furious from people who have no business asking. The expectation that EVERYONE wants to have kids is still very prevalent. I had been questioning my zero child policy for a while but a false alarm this Fall has changed my mind. That doesn't mean I will sharing that decision publicly, not even with family. We will have kids when we feel it is time but I am not going to rationalize my reproductive decisions with every person who asks the question.

If you want kids, great. If you don't, that's great too.
 
2012-12-29 12:23:29 PM

cryinoutloud: Eegah: That about sums it up for me (although I found a great gal).
I've heard the "selfish" accusation before. I've never understood how it's selfish to not bring more children into an already overpopulated world.

It's selfish if your reason for not having kids is so that you can have more money. Unless you're dirt poor, that is a selfish reason.

But if you'd rather have money than anything else, just as well you don't have any kids anyway. Try to keep it that way.


By that logic, any decision that a person makes in order to have more money is selfish. Accepted a promotion? You selfish bastard.
 
2012-12-29 12:25:46 PM
Wow, the boomer lady sounds JUST like me, except my family has never pressured me about the kids thing. I think it was obvious from an early age. The second answer sounds like the typical Vegas douchebag I've avoided for a decade now. Yeah, if your only drive in life is money, you will feel empty. But you can fill your life with so much, with or without children. Maybe i don't really know what I'm missing, but maybe I don't really want to know what that is.
 
2012-12-29 12:25:59 PM
i216.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-29 12:30:08 PM
There's enough Kinderfeindlichkeit on this thread to make Gilles de Rais sick.

Re the first Slate poster: what is it about so many Jewish-American women spreading the don't-get-married-don't-have-kids gospel? Did they get diddled by pervy rabbis as kids? Does that really give you satisfaction to foist your preferences upon others?

I think happiness comes down to love of family and a sense of human continuity; can you really get that from a badminton partner? The US doesn't do community well as it is, what with neighbors refraining from learning each others' names: family is about the only sense of connection we have left.

I identify with the second Slate poster. When society expects you to be a corporate cog earning big bucks, you have little time to look for the mate who is doing the same, fears pregnancy as a disaster conferring future unemployability, or is 'self-actualizing' like the Boobieser.

To improve future human security, we need to lessen the corporate/financial overlordship and increase the sense of community and mutual enjoyment of lives lived with others, including and especially families.

Oh, and for the 'Children of Men' ain't gonna happen' crowd, I'll just leave this:

Link

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/magazine/110861/how-older-parenth o od-will-upend-american-society
 
2012-12-29 12:30:16 PM

cryinoutloud: Eegah: That about sums it up for me (although I found a great gal).
I've heard the "selfish" accusation before. I've never understood how it's selfish to not bring more children into an already overpopulated world.

It's selfish if your reason for not having kids is so that you can have more money. Unless you're dirt poor, that is a selfish reason.

But if you'd rather have money than anything else, just as well you don't have any kids anyway. Try to keep it that way.


I would only be selfish if the world needed more kids, which it does not. I love your logic, though. If you don't create a child that needs something from you, and then give it to them, you are selfish. Why not abstain from creating the child in the first place? You can't be selfish for withholding something from someone that does not exist.

I also love that you assume that our decision to not have kids is to have more money. I think this comment may apply to you:

sycraft: It's from bitter parents. You find that parents that are truly happy with their choice, and there are a great many of them, don't feel the need to harass you about having children. My cousins are like that, they have two kids, couldn't be happier with their family, and never give me any shiat for having none and having no plans for any. They made their choice, they are happy in it, they don't feel the need to harp on others.

However there are more than a few parents who are bitter and resentful to people without children and the freedom they have. They are not happy with their choice and so justify it as the only "correct" choice. They hate on those who did things differently because it shows them what they want and cannot have.

As a practical matter, it can be a rather unselfish act to not have kids. If we are to have a stable world, we need to stop the massive population growth. No that can be done China style where the government enforces shiat... or it can be done in a voluntary fashion. Some people have no children and thus others that want more than 2 can have it, and not affect growth.

 
2012-12-29 12:30:55 PM

MBooda: What Is It Like To Be an Adult and Not Have Kids?

Nice, except for the annoying compulsion to tell everybody What Is It Like To Be an Adult and Not Have Kids.


The "no kids" people are alot like the atheists. Rather than quietly go on with their lives, they feel they need to both tell you about their choice and defend it without solicitation.
 
2012-12-29 12:31:03 PM
It is easier to not have kids if you aren't married in the first place. But, then you get the questions on when will you "settle down" with someone.

If you want to get hit from all sides, don't marry, don't have a kid, and be sure you RENT not own (VOID in places like New York City). Ideally rent an apartment. I might never own a house, much less spawn an offspring.
 
2012-12-29 12:31:53 PM

cryinoutloud: Eegah: That about sums it up for me (although I found a great gal).
I've heard the "selfish" accusation before. I've never understood how it's selfish to not bring more children into an already overpopulated world.

It's selfish if your reason for not having kids is so that you can have more money. Unless you're dirt poor, that is a selfish reason.

But if you'd rather have money than anything else, just as well you don't have any kids anyway. Try to keep it that way.

You've got it backwards. It's I don't want kids, therefore, I have more money: not, I want more money, so I won't have kids.

 
2012-12-29 12:40:09 PM

singularity or bust: I like how TFA's argument for kids is basically "shiat, I'm bored. Better have kids."


I assume you're talking about the 2nd writer. I read that and thought "I bet he doesn't have any actual passions".

I could not have kids, my job, and also fulfill all my interests and passions. Something had to be left out. I decided to leave out kids. My sister has 4, so there's lots of opportunity to be an uncle. It's not like the planet is suffering for lack of people. I will miss out on many of those "kid" moments... just like my sister will miss out on many adult moments. Like many other things in life, you make your choice and live with it. There will be moments of regret no matter which choice you make, because that's our nature, imagining what could have been.
 
2012-12-29 12:41:59 PM

imfallen_angel: Kibbler: So can you tell us which makes you more explosively outraged, people who don't have kids, but you think they should, or people who do have kids, but you think they shouldn't?

I'm not saying that everyone should have kids, but those that don't, shouldn't believe themselves better... but yet, they do, over and over, then at some point, most whine about missing out.

Funny how most have dogs and need to rant about these dogs though... over and over.

I simply don't like those people...outraged? nah... just finding them pathetic is enough.

Then there's those that are this very thing, have kids anyways, and still treat the dogs better.

It's pretty sad.


It's quite possible to make the decision not to have kids, and be happy with it, and still recognize what you missed. We're childless, and that's the right decision for us, but that doesn't mean we think having kids is 100% awful and crappy. Yes, there are times when I see my niece and nephew and they're all cuddly and laughing and it's something I wish I could have known for myself. Yes, there are moments when I wonder what it'd be like to see my son or daughter as an adult. I will never see these things, and that's a consequence of the choice we made. The freedom and disposable income that allow us to pursue other interests is the fun side of that decision.

Every decision comes with that kind of consequences - some happy, some not quite so. It's normal to wonder about the road not taken. But that doesn't mean we regret the road we did take. We're quite happy to be childless, for a variety of reasons, first being the knowledge that we would not have the patience and energy to raise a child decently. Not everybody is cut out to do the same thing, whether it's what you do for a living, where you live, or what kind of family you decide to build.

Basically, I'd encourage people to spend more time deciding what works best in their own lives based on their strengths and weaknesses, and less time judging other people for making different choices.
 
2012-12-29 12:42:31 PM
Acheivement Unlocked!

Poop Expert!
 
2012-12-29 12:45:30 PM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: To improve future human security, we need to lessen the corporate/financial overlordship and increase the sense of community and mutual enjoyment of lives lived with others, including and especially families.


You could also walk out the door and ring your neighbor's doorbell. My parents spend far more time with their neighbors and best friends who live a block away now that they're retired than they do with family.
 
2012-12-29 12:48:06 PM
Honestly, my mother ironed my dad's boxer shorts. And all of our sheets and his handkerchiefs; it was expected of her.

Oh, the humanity.
 
2012-12-29 12:49:00 PM
The whole 'You don't know what you're missing by having kids' argument is stupid.

You can't miss something you never had.
 
2012-12-29 12:59:08 PM

enderthexenocide: i'm 33, single, with no kids. and to be honest it kind of sucks. don't get me wrong, i enjoyed the hell out of my 20s, and at this point in my life i have financial and personal freedom that my married-with-kids friends lack. but i'm bored.

i was single and childless for a long time. it was fun, but now i want to move on to something new. i can't see myself being single and childless the rest of my life, i just think i'll be bored to death in another couple years. i want the challenge and the experience of raising children, i want to see what that's like.


As a 39 year old who knocked up a young lass - it's totally awesome. It's hard work, and your sleep can suffer for it, but when your heart melts from the coos and smiles from your little one, nothing else really compares.
 
2012-12-29 01:08:00 PM

pla: "Who will take care of you when you get old?" - You mean like your grudging monthly visit to "the home" to see your parents?


People tell me I'll have no one to take care of me when I'm old. They change the subject when I tell them about my grandmother who died alone in a hospice at age 86 - and she had 8 kids.

Banned on the Run: The "no kids" people are alot like the atheists. Rather than quietly go on with their lives, they feel they need to both tell you about their choice and defend it without solicitation.


Actually, it's more that we have to defend our choice to people who keep insisting we're doing the wrong thing. I've had this conversation foisted on me too many times to count, and even when I try to end it with a polite deflection and then an inquiry about something else in that person's life, some people will still come back to it. I'll never forget a lunch with an out-of-town coworker who just refused to drop the subject, and telling me to "just have one, you'll see you'll love it", as if a child was like a new restaurant I should try.

Really, I understand it's perfectly normal to ask someone "do you have kids" when you get to know them. It's small talk, same as "where do you live" or "what do you do for a living". But if I say "no, we don't, but we have a couple of cats", that's not an invitation to pry into the why of this and challenge me on that choice. If you meet someone and they say "I'm an engineer", would you go ahead and tell them they will regret it one day? I imagine not, because that would be rude. So all I ask is for people to have the basic civility to not argue about our life when they are not the ones living it.
 
2012-12-29 01:11:12 PM

Yzziefrog: It's quite possible to make the decision not to have kids, and be happy with it, and still recognize what you missed.


This.  I won't say I don't get second thoughts from time to time, but it registers like having to choose between two awesome dishes at a fancy restaurant and only enough money to buy one or the other.  The ONLY way to ruin your choice is to regret.  Not having everything is just a basic fact of life.

miscreant: I assume you're talking about the 2nd writer. I read that and thought "I bet he doesn't have any actual passions".


This.  If anything I suffer from having too many passions, because even without kids there's so much I'm holding off for lack of time.
 
2012-12-29 01:23:07 PM

Yzziefrog: Basically, I'd encourage people to spend more time deciding what works best in their own lives based on their strengths and weaknesses, and less time judging other people for making different choices.


Quite right...

There's truly pros and cons to having or not having kids.

My point is... most people that have kids were single once, and some made choices and now have kids, so they have the point of view of both lifestyles (not counting the teenage pregnancies of course).

As already stated, I'm quite fine with some that aren't parent material and choose to stay childless, and as said already, some that did have kids, shouldn't have.

There's not much sadder stuff than when you see a kid from a bad situation, unplanned, unwanted, used as a pawn, etc... simply unloved really.

So people without kids, get to live alone or in a couple and get to do everything that childless people do... nothing special about it.. but then again, some people with kids manage just fine and do plenty of non-child related stuff too.

Some people believe that life ends if you have a kid instead of understanding that done right, a child will add to your life, as much as a mate should. But many lack the effort is takes too, not that it's a put down at all, just that it's not for every one.

There's place for both type of people, and as you stated, being childless can be both a burden and a blessing.

One thing that I've already said though... those that "substitute" children with dogs should be left on a frigging island away from intelligent people, so far, rare as been the occasion to see an exception to the rule that a dog owner isn't an arse to a certain extent, put that mentality with the childless, and the odds are even lower.

Godscrack: The whole 'You don't know what you're missing by having kids' argument is stupid.

You can't miss something you never had.


Most stupid people don't miss being intelligent, so your argument is also valid for that.

I've never missed not being a drug user, but I sure know what it does.

As stated already... most parents have been single, so they know what that's like. A single person can't have a kid and then not have one... oh wait, there plenty of dead-beat parents out there, isn't it.

/eyes rolls.
 
2012-12-29 01:29:48 PM
Every time I feel that twinge in my uterus, I visit my nephews and am once again reminded that I enjoy leaving them with their parents at the end of the day and going home to my cat in my fortress of solitude.  Mama needs her quiet time, and she sure as hell won't get that with a rugrat in the house.
 
2012-12-29 01:32:01 PM

Fissile: I know LOTS of people who have children, but shouldn't.


And this.  So much this.

/watching a soap opera unfold on FB right now with a cousin who neglected to take her sick children to a doctor weeks ago, so now one of them is hooked up to breathing machines
//every time he gets "better" she thanks prayers instead of the doctors working their butts off
 
2012-12-29 01:35:39 PM
This thread should just be titled " justify to yourself and others why your life is so great, also talk about your dog/cat"
 
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