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(NewsOK)   Hobby Lobby to continue hobby of lobbying Appeals Court to allow their other hobby of lobbing their beliefs on their employees private lobby hobbies   (newsok.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, sidelines, appeals court  
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7724 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Dec 2012 at 4:02 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-28 11:57:24 PM  
So I'm working for these christian scientists, right? Funny folks but it was a plump gig juggling chainsaws as part of a kiddie birthday clown act.

One day I'm hungover (well, most days) and I slipped by a half-second on the catch and, damnit, there goes my left hand with the kids all screaming and me screaming and my bloody stump squirting all over the crowd of kids who then started to cry, scream, and vomit up sickly sweet birthday cake with too much frosting all over everywhere. it looked like it was marble cake but now all gooey and with many red streaks from the bloody stump I was still waving all over while screaming. 'cause it hurt, ya know?

"Take me to a doctor! Oh god, they can save my hand if you throw it in the freezer! A doctor!"

"But we don't believe in doctors," my boss said. "We can pray about it."

"Pray about it? what? I don't even - no sutures or nothing? Just prayer?"

My boss nodded.

And that's why i had to tell all you good people that story while typing with my nose. it took longer than I expected.

with much love,
Stumpy
 
2012-12-29 12:19:43 AM  

vernonFL: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 230x219]
Do you see that? Its a modern reflector on an Amish buggy. The Amish did not want to put modern reflectors on their buggies, but the law says they have to.


That probably doesn't violate any of the Amish beliefs.

Methinks you don't understand Amish folk.
 
2012-12-29 12:25:57 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: This applies, it seems, to companies run by Bible thumpers, but not to companies with union contracts in states without a Right to Freeload on the UnionWork law.


If unions offered value for membership, people would join voluntarily. The ACLU and NRA will spend millions of dollars fighting for the rights of non-paying members and rely on voluntary contributions to sustain their activities. What are unions so afraid of that they need compulsory membership in order to survive? The NRA and ACLU dont seem to have a problem with freeloaders

cameroncrazy1984: Okay you have a valid comparison. What industries has Obama nationalized, again?


automotive, banking, housing, student loans, healthcare.

Some are more nationalized than others but public/private partnerships, aka cronyism are alive and well. There's still other options in the marketplace but eventually, UAW Ford workers will tire of seeing their income taxes go to the guys across town who are getting paid to produce cars that nobody wants to buy. Government is the only entity that has a monopoly of force and eventually, businesses will fold since they cant levy taxes or pass laws to force people to buy their stuff.
 
2012-12-29 12:30:35 AM  

you are a puppet: Submitter: you sir, are a mouthful.


I go to the same gym as subby. Half a mouthful at best.
 
2012-12-29 12:32:01 AM  

o5iiawah: automotive, banking, housing, student loans, healthcare.

Some are more nationalized than others


Uh, you don't understand the meaning of the word "nationalized"

Here, let me help you out:

Nationalize:to bring under the ownership or control of a nation.Now please explain to me which of these industries is owned by the government.Automotive isn't. the US doesn't even own a majority of GM, much less literally any other automotive company in the USStudent loans: Nope, you can still get a private student loan from Citi or Nelnet or othersHousing: Nope you can still buy and sell houses from private companies.Healthcare: Nope, you can still get healthcare wholly from a private company or insurer.Now please, can you find even  ONE industry that has been nationalized in the US? Oil? Anything?
 
2012-12-29 12:34:29 AM  

gopher321: [mojoimage.com image 500x333]


Dobby approves of the headline


It was a bad headline.  I was so saddened by it that I got rather sobby.
 
2012-12-29 12:37:58 AM  

WhoopAssWayne: Convenience abortions should be prosecuted as first degree murder.

Go ahead idiot liberals - open up this can of worms of pushing your beliefs on others through Obamacare and see what kind of a country we end up with. Because it won't take long for the ball to be in the other court, and I have a feeling the next republican president will make G W Bush look like Mahatma Gandhi, and then you dumbasses will really have something to cry about.


Well, keep enjoying that feeling.
 
2012-12-29 12:55:40 AM  

specialkae: Cool HL story time: Few years back I was in my local Hobby Lobby in Cowtown and was doing some shopping but also considering applying there since they offered a decent starting wage. What stopped me from applying was a young lady in one of the home decor aisles speaking to a customer about how she was a member of a Bible study group and that they met on Wednesdays and how delighted she and her brethren/sisteren would be if said customer would but consent to join them. Sorry, Hobby Lobby, you're a business. Either run it as such or STFU and if you don't hush it, hope you get sued to kingdom come and may your sanctimonious asses be handed to you as was the head of John the Baptist delivered to Salome on a silver platter. Sadly, HL does have the best selection of dollhouse kits I've found in a brick and mortar store and have put it off, as one of my reasons is shipping of delicate parts and returning items from an online retailer. They have received no further business from me except for the one time I took an out of town houseguest at her request there and chose not to delve into why I boycotted the company. Amazon, who has a better return policy than I would've imagined, should have the same dollhouse kits for cheaper, so HL and all of their nonsense may go fly a kite and hopefully go down in flames for their neglect of the health and consideration of their employees and their families. I will not shed a tear to see them all close shop permanently and GTFU of my state.  I pray it is soon.


wow. go fark yourself.

i've been a farker for longer than most of the anti-hobby lobby farkers in this thread, and this thread has made me realize that Fark now belongs to a younger generation of utter douchebags.

I stopped using facebook once I realized it's basically just self-aggrandizement and Farmville updates. Pretty sure Fark has now become a wing of the Obama administration. That's too bad, because this site was awesome.
 
2012-12-29 12:58:04 AM  

PepperFreak: I don't understand why you teabaggers have a problem with this.
The only people who will take advantage of birth control and abortion are liberals and brown people, right? You pay for enough of it and surely within a few generations this country will turn into a glorious white Jesusland.
Pay a little now, live in a glorious Fatherland later. It seems like a good investment. Call it a solution to your problems. Carry it out far enough and it might even turn into a, how to say it, final solution?


You're a tool.
 
2012-12-29 01:00:57 AM  
cbathrob

This thread is further proof that calling oneself a Libertarian is the simplest, most elegant IQ test ever devised--along with support for Ron Paul or the gold standard. Might as well just wear a helmet at all times, because you lack the sense that the FSM gave dirt.


So, why did Ron Paul run on the republican ticket this election?
 
2012-12-29 01:06:48 AM  
BarkingUnicorn [TotalFark]

You've been trolled. Firms with fewer than 50 employees are not subject to the employer mandate.

Trolled, schmolled. It doesn't change what the guy said on Thursday night. And on that note who gives a rats ass.
 
2012-12-29 01:07:27 AM  
That was annoying.. the whole thing went into quotes
 
2012-12-29 01:13:48 AM  

mwfark: The govt is forcing Hobby Lobby to act in a way that conflicts with their beliefs, so I'm proud of this private enterprise for standing its ground against an aggressively coercive government. I believe in freedom, and Hobby Lobby should be free to run it's business as the owners see fit, and the employees are free to seek work elsewhere if they don't like it.


ct.fra.bz
 
2012-12-29 01:17:53 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy:
No, but that corporation is closely held, maybe even by one person, and that group or individual is religious, it is a violation of their/his religious freedom to dictate (Seig Heil) that they must violate their religious principles in order to remain in business.

Fascism is alive and well in America. USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! ......


But on the flip-side, it's apparently perfectly acceptable for a business owner to be the one dictating.
 
2012-12-29 01:21:29 AM  

TanHamster: That's too bad, because this site was awesome.


Well, bye.
 
2012-12-29 01:26:53 AM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: Well, I didn't come on here to defend Republicans, but let's see if I have your logic correct.... The Democrats take control of the House (and Senate) in 2007, and coincidentally in 2007 the USPS operated at a loss for the first time in over 5 years..... but this is somehow the Republicans fault?


The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 was passed by the Republican Congress.  It mandated $5.5 billion per year to be paid into an account to pre-fund retiree health-care, 75 years into the future, a requirement unique to the USPS.  The purpose of this bill was to force the USPS into a budgetary crisis which Darrel Issa then used to try and pass a union busting bill to remedy the crisis they created.  Without the PAEA, the USPS would have a $1.5 billion surplus.  This was nothing more than another GOP attempt to intentionally break a government agency in order to prove that government doesn't work.
 
2012-12-29 01:31:40 AM  

cmb53208: What makes fundies such awful pieces of shiat?


Actually the nastiest name calling unpleasant crybabies in this thread are on the government's side. Count them.
 
2012-12-29 01:35:17 AM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: ghare: If Hobby Lobby closes due to a drop in sales, due to them being perceived by the public left as douchebags, then another art store will move in to take their place, and they will hire basically the same number of employees as Hobby Lobby did.

FTFY.... Let's see how bad it was for business last time.....

[www.frugal-cafe.com image 709x413]


How cute.  That was the one day bump in sales that they had.  Their sales for the entire quarter dropped.  Lol.
 
2012-12-29 01:38:10 AM  

STRYPERSWINE: cmb53208: What makes fundies such awful pieces of shiat?

Actually the nastiest name calling unpleasant crybabies in this thread are on the government's side. Count them.


Okay: 1

You.
 
2012-12-29 01:41:12 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: TanHamster: That's too bad, because this site was awesome.

Well, bye.


hey, douchebag, by any chance do you play a lot of video games? not married? no kids? still live in an apartment? in your 30s?

i'm all for ad hominem attacks, because it greatly simplifies the process of arguing with some 35 yr old who plays call of duty, and still thinks he knows jack shiat about being an adult
 
2012-12-29 01:45:56 AM  

TanHamster: cameroncrazy1984: TanHamster: That's too bad, because this site was awesome.

Well, bye.

hey, douchebag, by any chance do you play a lot of video games? not married? no kids? still live in an apartment? in your 30s?

i'm all for ad hominem attacks, because it greatly simplifies the process of arguing with some 35 yr old who plays call of duty, and still thinks he knows jack shiat about being an adult


I'm still in my twenties, and by the time I get to be whatever age you are, I hope I'm not nearly as irrationally angry about my life as you appear to be about yours. Because wow do you fly off the handle way too easily. Calm down. It's the Internet, gramps.
 
2012-12-29 02:19:34 AM  
"They're not going to comply with the mandate," said Kyle Duncan, general counsel of The Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty, which is representing the company. "They're not going to offer coverage for abortion-inducing drugs in the insurance plan."

then the courts will fine them a couple million for every day they refuse to comply with the court order.  which should put them out of business within about a week.
 
2012-12-29 02:22:16 AM  
wait, what's wrong with being in your 30s and still enjoying video games? :-(
 
2012-12-29 02:24:16 AM  

TanHamster: . Pretty sure Fark has now become a wing of the Obama administration. That's too bad, because this site was awesome.


this site is STILL awesome.  look, I know you have to actually confront libruls here on fark and sometimes they'll actually be smarter than you, or more articulate.  hey, it happens.  no matter HOW good you are, someone is always better than you.  Try not to think of fark as being overrun with 'libruls'. instead, try to think of fark as a collection of random ideas.  some good, some bad, and most of 'em batshiat insane.

Just a thought.
 
2012-12-29 02:26:56 AM  

Uniquely Common: wait, what's wrong with being in your 30s and still enjoying video games? :-(


got me.  I've worked nights and weekends for over 15 years.  which means I don't usually get home till after midnight.  only thing you can do at 1am is drink or log into an online game and play games with folks in another time zone.  And drinking alone gets boring real fast. video games + rum shooters are a bit less pathetic than just the rum.
 
2012-12-29 02:31:57 AM  

TanHamster: specialkae: Cool HL story time: Few years back I was in my local Hobby Lobby in Cowtown and was doing some shopping but also considering applying there since they offered a decent starting wage. What stopped me from applying was a young lady in one of the home decor aisles speaking to a customer about how she was a member of a Bible study group and that they met on Wednesdays and how delighted she and her brethren/sisteren would be if said customer would but consent to join them. Sorry, Hobby Lobby, you're a business. Either run it as such or STFU and if you don't hush it, hope you get sued to kingdom come and may your sanctimonious asses be handed to you as was the head of John the Baptist delivered to Salome on a silver platter. Sadly, HL does have the best selection of dollhouse kits I've found in a brick and mortar store and have put it off, as one of my reasons is shipping of delicate parts and returning items from an online retailer. They have received no further business from me except for the one time I took an out of town houseguest at her request there and chose not to delve into why I boycotted the company. Amazon, who has a better return policy than I would've imagined, should have the same dollhouse kits for cheaper, so HL and all of their nonsense may go fly a kite and hopefully go down in flames for their neglect of the health and consideration of their employees and their families. I will not shed a tear to see them all close shop permanently and GTFU of my state.  I pray it is soon.

wow. go fark yourself.

i've been a farker for longer than most of the anti-hobby lobby farkers in this thread, and this thread has made me realize that Fark now belongs to a younger generation of utter douchebags.

I stopped using facebook once I realized it's basically just self-aggrandizement and Farmville updates. Pretty sure Fark has now become a wing of the Obama administration. That's too bad, because this site was awesome.


So you want those damned kids to get off your Fark? :-)

I agree about specialkae .  She reminds me of Adam M. Smith, the guy who thought he was so clever while berating a Chick-Fil-A girl.   He got fired the next day.

Seriously, specialkae, you should have stopped at, "I decided not to apply for a job there because I didn't want to be proselytized."  But redhead rage is hard to stop, isn't it?
 
2012-12-29 02:48:45 AM  
bottled redhead rage or natural redhead rage? One is just being witchy the other is being feisty.

/feisty
 
2012-12-29 03:07:10 AM  
I have to admire Hobby Lobby's owners.  They won't compromise their religious beliefs.  They also won't throw their employees under the bus by dropping health insurance, even though that would be much cheaper.

Seems odd that Obamacare's penalty structure strongly encourages employers to drop health insurance entirely.  That costs $2000 per employee per year.  The daily fine for non-compliant plans like HL's is $100, or $36,500 per employee per year.  What message is that supposed to send?
 
2012-12-29 03:10:31 AM  

Uniquely Common: bottled redhead rage or natural redhead rage? One is just being witchy the other is being feisty.

/feisty


Well, her profile says she's "currently" red with blonde streaks.  Also tattooed and "pagan."  I'd put my money on bottled hair coloring and natural rage.
 
2012-12-29 03:16:15 AM  
specialkae:

Specialkae, can you email me? (EIP) I want to ask you a question, nothing to do with this thread.

/sorry for threadjack
 
2012-12-29 08:36:27 AM  

Weaver95: Uniquely Common: wait, what's wrong with being in your 30s and still enjoying video games? :-(

got me.  I've worked nights and weekends for over 15 years.  which means I don't usually get home till after midnight.  only thing you can do at 1am is drink or log into an online game and play games with folks in another time zone.  And drinking alone gets boring real fast. video games + rum shooters are a bit less pathetic than just the rum.


FWIW, I'm 32, so apparently that makes me geriatric on Fark. I'm an engineer with a wife and son, and I work with "bros" my age who are doing the exact same thing they've been doing since graduating from college: playing video games, microwaving pizza shooters, and banging different chicks every few weeks.

Said bros then login to Fark and start firing full broadsides against people with values who don't necessarily believe that the gubmint should force employers to pay the costs associated with recreational sex.

My priority is the health and safety of my fambly, so health insurance to me means something that averts personal bankruptcy when someone is seriously sick or injured. It doesn't mean having the gubmint force my employer to pay for contraception and convenience abortions.
 
2012-12-29 09:21:50 AM  

o5iiawah: Lee Jackson Beauregard: This applies, it seems, to companies run by Bible thumpers, but not to companies with union contracts in states without a Right to Freeload on the UnionWork law.

If unions offered value for membership, people would join voluntarily.


One, people do join voluntarily. Two, negotiating for contracts and resolving grievances cost money. I'd be all for "right to work" if it didn't mean "right to freeload on the union" -- if the union didn't have to go to bat for those who don't support it. The Chamber of Commerce doesn't go to bat for businesses who don't support it. Aren't you right wingers supposed to be against freeloaders?

cameroncrazy1984: Okay you have a valid comparison. What industries has Obama nationalized, again?

automotive,


Ford has no government ownership and GM is planning to buy its shares back from the Treasury.

banking, housing,

If only. Given what a fine job the banks have done.

student loans,

Bullschitt.

healthcare.

One, if only. Two, It seems perfectly OK to nationalize healthcare when it's the NRA talking.
 
2012-12-29 09:25:28 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: When the Nazis (National Socialists) took control in Germany they nationalized some industries,

Okay you have a valid comparison. What industries has Obama nationalized, again?


Sigh.

>>>>What industries has Obama nationalized, again?

Mention of nationalization was a context/history lesson, dumbass, as you (hopefully) well know (re-read my post). If you really don't, then rational discussion with you is hopeless.
 
2012-12-29 09:31:07 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: ghare: I just spent $40 at Sam Flax instead of Hobby Lobby because of this. Tried to email them a pic of my receipt, but for some reason there doesn't appear o be a link to email them with comments on their website.

That 40 bucks is going to push them right over the edge.

Boycotting them is kind of counter productive. If enough people did that (they won't), it would have more of a negative impact on the employees, then it would the company. Sales are down, you lay off people.


Boycott them, shop at other hobby stores. HL sees decrease in business and lays people off. Other hobby stores see increase and hire more people. I'm really tired of this "think of the minimum-wage slaves" argument when it comes to boycotting. Sure, as a minimum-wage slave myself, I empathize. But just how else is society supposed to show displeasure toward a company behaving badly? Send strongly-worded letters?
 
2012-12-29 09:51:35 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: "If you own and run a business in this country, the State absolutely has the right to tell you how you may do that, yes," So: in principle, what's the difference? Give me a straight answer or STFU.

It's called "the law", or are you claiming that businesses are above the law?


Ah yes, "the law." Hmmmm... there are so many ways I could answer this.....

But I suggest you read a fun little book by a gentleman named Frederic Bastiat Link (pick your edition).

Ummm.... which law are we talking about, again? The Constitutional provision that Negros were to be counted as 3/5ths of a human being? Or was it the various laws that Negros could not own firearms? Or maybe the law that required Jews to sew yellow stars on their clothing? Or is it the current law that women cannot leave their homes without having an escort of a male relative? Or the one where a rape is considered the fault of the woman and the penalty is death by stoning?

The point is this: the above were/are all laws that were passed by lawful governing authority - i.e.: the legal government of the time and place concerned. So to re-ask your own question: It's called "the law", or are you claiming that people are above the law?

I'm really not evading answering your question, I'm trying to make this a learning experience. Please think about: what IS law; what is it's purpose? Who can legitimately make it? And beyond: what is government? What makes a government legitimate? How is a "legitimate" government different from a bandit warlord who exercises a monopoly of force over his domain, extracts supplies and provisions from the peasants in that area, impresses them into the gang, and protects them from the other warlords who want to do the same thing? (Warning, this is a trick question.)
 
2012-12-29 09:55:38 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Fascism is alive and well in America.

[i80.photobucket.com image 300x470]

Nice that the wingnuts are finally noticing.


That list needs a little work. Actually a lot of work. Unless, of course, it's vying for the Best Fiction of the Year award. Oh, and nice of you elevate it's dismal status by throwing in some ad hominem.
 
2012-12-29 09:57:52 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Yeah, and the science is always 100% right, right? There were a whole bunch of scientists in Nazi Germany who declared that Jews were subhuman and needed to be exterminated.

No, there were a bunch of crazy people. Are you really comparing American scientists to Nazis?

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: No, but that corporation is closely held, maybe even by one person, and that group or individual is religious, it is a violation of their/his religious freedom to dictate (Seig Heil) that they must violate their religious principles in order to remain in business.

Again, no it isn't. Corporations don't get special rights because the owner "really" believes something. Sorry, it's just not part of US law.


Are you aware of the fact that individuals can become corporations? so... where would you draw the line? Also, under US law, corporations are considered to be individuals in most ways?
 
2012-12-29 10:10:05 AM  

dr_blasto: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: cameroncrazy1984: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Mmmm... first, by "State" I refer to the technical term of government (in this case the feds), just in case you thought I meant the STATE government. Second, if the feds tell the company that, yes, they have to pay for employee purchases of contraceptives and other things that the employer's religion defines as abortifacients then yes, indeed, they are forcing them to pay for someone else's abortion

No you're not, because it doesn't matter what your religion is, it matters what science says. And science says you're still wrong.

Additionally, a corporation is not a religious entity so you're STILL wrong!

Sigh.

>>>>"...it doesn't matter what your religion is, it matters what science says." Yeah, and the science is always 100% right, right? There were a whole bunch of scientists in Nazi Germany who declared that Jews were subhuman and needed to be exterminated. There were a whole bunch of scientists in the Soviet Union who toed the Party line against Darwinian evolution, Virtually the whole Geological scientific establishment had to be dragged screaming into accepting plate tectonics. There are endless examples. Oh, you say the "science is settled"? Really? That's a profoundly unscientific statement. Science by it's very nature is never settled.

>>>>>"Additionally, a corporation is not a religious entity so you're STILL wrong!"

No, but that corporation is closely held, maybe even by one person, and that group or individual is religious, it is a violation of their/his religious freedom to dictate (Seig Heil) that they must violate their religious principles in order to remain in business.

Fascism is alive and well in America. USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! ......

Lol, what are you on? Fascism? Nazi scientists?

Your godwin got all over the wall and stained the carpet. I hope your happy.


LOL! The history of godwining is interesting. Yes, it's been used (correctly) when someone, for example, has gone full retard with "But Nazis" when having an argument over a chess game. But it's also often used incorrectly, as a rhetorical (i.e.: cowardly) deflection from having to respond to someone who has made a valid point (as in: "Ha ha! You mentioned Nazi's so you lose!".

This present case is of the 2nd sort.

>>>>Lol, what are you on? Fascism? Nazi scientists?

So... what exactly is your point? Do you disagree that the United States exhibits some characteristics of Fascism? Do you disagree that the Nazi's had scientists? What? Please be specific. Try not to commit an ad hominem.
 
2012-12-29 10:13:39 AM  

Beavz0r: Just Another OC Homeless Guy:
No, but that corporation is closely held, maybe even by one person, and that group or individual is religious, it is a violation of their/his religious freedom to dictate (Seig Heil) that they must violate their religious principles in order to remain in business.

Fascism is alive and well in America. USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! ......

But on the flip-side, it's apparently perfectly acceptable for a business owner to be the one dictating.


Sigh.

Yes, particularly when he is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to work, and you are chained to the desk and cannot quit your job at any farking time.

Seriously, are you THAT context-challenged that you don't understand the difference between a LAW (enforced with guns) and a VOLUNTARY BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP? Seriously?
 
2012-12-29 10:52:53 AM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: Just pandering to those narrow-minded imbeciles that want to score some brownie points for heaven for their imaginary but insecure sky-wizard.  OH MY, GAWD doesn't like ABORTION or BIRTH CONTROL!  It sez right there in the BAHBULL!!!  Praise the LAWD!!!

Oh, and they just feel the rush of POWER they get for doing this. Doesn't matter how many lives of women they ruin with their little 'hobby' here.

Selfish, goddamn assholes. With money. Lots of goddamn money. Money that goddamn politicians just farkin' LOVE.


Hey, don't think all of us Christens are like these morons. That's just plain stupid.
 
2012-12-29 10:53:34 AM  

WhoopAssWayne: Convenience abortions should be prosecuted as first degree murder.

Go ahead idiot liberals - open up this can of worms of pushing your beliefs on others through Obamacare and see what kind of a country we end up with. Because it won't take long for the ball to be in the other court, and I have a feeling the next republican president will make G W Bush look like Mahatma Gandhi, and then you dumbasses will really have something to cry about.


Just a troll, nothing to see here.
 
2012-12-29 11:01:07 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: cameroncrazy1984: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: When the Nazis (National Socialists) took control in Germany they nationalized some industries,

Okay you have a valid comparison. What industries has Obama nationalized, again?

Sigh.

>>>>What industries has Obama nationalized, again?

Mention of nationalization was a context/history lesson, dumbass, as you (hopefully) well know (re-read my post). If you really don't, then rational discussion with you is hopeless.


Well then how can you compare us to the Nazis if you can't actually compare us to anything the Nazis have done? You could just as easily compare us to the UK, Germany or France. But then that wouldn't have gotten you as much attention, and anyway those countries do just fine (or better) with more industrial regulation than we have.
 
2012-12-29 11:11:48 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: LOL! The history of godwining is interesting. Yes, it's been used (correctly) when someone, for example, has gone full retard with "But Nazis" when having an argument over a chess game. But it's also often used incorrectly, as a rhetorical (i.e.: cowardly) deflection from having to respond to someone who has made a valid point (as in: "Ha ha! You mentioned Nazi's so you lose!".

This present case is of the 2nd sort.

>>>>Lol, what are you on? Fascism? Nazi scientists?

So... what exactly is your point? Do you disagree that the United States exhibits some characteristics of Fascism? Do you disagree that the Nazi's had scientists? What? Please be specific. Try not to commit an ad hominem.


Your hyperbole is overboard. If you think this is remotely close to Nazi-ism or Fascism, there's no point in discussing anything further. I don't think you really believe that, I've seen you write non-insane comments before.

Now, to the godwinning bit, you've resorted to comparing the actions to Nazis without providing any remotely plausible link. It is a specious argument on your part, similar to the crazy here:
i233.photobucket.com
It isn't an argument. You want to discuss this? Make an argument. Wanna scream at clouds? Carry on with the same tack you've been following so far.
 
2012-12-29 12:16:40 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: "If you own and run a business in this country, the State absolutely has the right to tell you how you may do that, yes," So: in principle, what's the difference? Give me a straight answer or STFU.

It's called "the law", or are you claiming that businesses are above the law?

Ah yes, "the law." Hmmmm... there are so many ways I could answer this.....

But I suggest you read a fun little book by a gentleman named Frederic Bastiat Link (pick your edition).

Ummm.... which law are we talking about, again? The Constitutional provision that Negros were to be counted as 3/5ths of a human being? Or was it the various laws that Negros could not own firearms? Or maybe the law that required Jews to sew yellow stars on their clothing? Or is it the current law that women cannot leave their homes without having an escort of a male relative? Or the one where a rape is considered the fault of the woman and the penalty is death by stoning?


Roight, guv. Because all those things are just like requiring insurance to cover contraception.

Or how 'bout these gems: There are laws limiting pollution of the air, water and soil. Should businesses be above such laws because they're businesses?

I'm really not evading answering your question,

i112.photobucket.com

How is a "legitimate" government different from a bandit warlord who exercises a monopoly of force over his domain, extracts supplies and provisions from the peasants in that area, impresses them into the gang, and protects them from the other warlords who want to do the same thing? (Warning, this is a trick question.)

The consent of the governed, dumbass.

Now, if you're advocating an anarchist position, answer me this (you're probably going to dodge it, and claim while doing so that you're not dodging it, just like you did above, but what the hey): How do you expect to avoid the rise of "bandit warlords" in an anarchist society?
 
2012-12-29 01:31:32 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Sigh.

Yes, particularly when he is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to work, and you are chained to the desk and cannot quit your job at any farking time.

Seriously, are you THAT context-challenged that you don't understand the difference between a LAW (enforced with guns) and a VOLUNTARY BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP? Seriously?


Well by that logic, then no one is forcing the business owner to keep their business open (or even in the country for that matter). If you're going to continue to maintain that it's as easy as 1, 2, 3 for the average American to simply get up and find another job with health coverage options of equal or greater magnitude -- and in this economic climate, no less -- then there's no reason the business owner can't do the same.

At the end of the day, the employee is the one who feels the ramifications -- not the employer. Whether Hobby Lobby decides to provide the healthcare coverage or pay the fine, nothing will change in the daily lives of the company's owners. They can continue to not use contraceptives or not have abortions as before, and read their favorite scripture right before bed. It's the same smoke and mirrors argument they've always used against gay marriage -- there's this something that doesn't actually affect me, but I'm going to make damn sure I ruin it for all the people it impacts directly (because of MY religion).
 
2012-12-29 04:13:03 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: cameroncrazy1984: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: When the Nazis (National Socialists) took control in Germany they nationalized some industries,

Okay you have a valid comparison. What industries has Obama nationalized, again?

Sigh.

>>>>What industries has Obama nationalized, again?

Mention of nationalization was a context/history lesson, dumbass, as you (hopefully) well know (re-read my post). If you really don't, then rational discussion with you is hopeless.

Well then how can you compare us to the Nazis if you can't actually compare us to anything the Nazis have done? You could just as easily compare us to the UK, Germany or France. But then that wouldn't have gotten you as much attention, and anyway those countries do just fine (or better) with more industrial regulation than we have.


Now I know your trolling. Or your reading comprehension and international affairs/economics knowledge is zip.

Or both.

Go away. Shoo.
 
2012-12-29 04:46:32 PM  

dr_blasto: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: LOL! The history of godwining is interesting. Yes, it's been used (correctly) when someone, for example, has gone full retard with "But Nazis" when having an argument over a chess game. But it's also often used incorrectly, as a rhetorical (i.e.: cowardly) deflection from having to respond to someone who has made a valid point (as in: "Ha ha! You mentioned Nazi's so you lose!".

This present case is of the 2nd sort.

>>>>Lol, what are you on? Fascism? Nazi scientists?

So... what exactly is your point? Do you disagree that the United States exhibits some characteristics of Fascism? Do you disagree that the Nazi's had scientists? What? Please be specific. Try not to commit an ad hominem.

Your hyperbole is overboard. If you think this is remotely close to Nazi-ism or Fascism, there's no point in discussing anything further. I don't think you really believe that, I've seen you write non-insane comments before.

Now, to the godwinning bit, you've resorted to comparing the actions to Nazis without providing any remotely plausible link. It is a specious argument on your part, similar to the crazy here:
[i233.photobucket.com image 450x337]
It isn't an argument. You want to discuss this? Make an argument. Wanna scream at clouds? Carry on with the same tack you've been following so far.


>>>>>you've resorted to comparing the actions to Nazis without providing any remotely plausible link.

Your reading comprehension and retention sucks. Remember I said; "So, in theory, there is no difference (except in degree) between the United States and Nazi Germany?"

Key words: except in degree.

Now for Real World Politics 101. Fascism, socialism and capitalism are primarily economic terms. They really don't have a lot to do with the system of government (democracy / authoritarian / totalitarian) except by accident. (The overlays of "nationalism", "racism" etc. that are used to describe fascism are mostly bullshiat - accidents of history that are not central to the core definition.)

Most everyone should be aware of the well-documented tendency of authoritarian and (particularly) totalitarian systems to closely regulate economic activity. But there are numerous examples in history of authoritarian systems (generally the old monarchies) which were fairly hands-off on economic activity. There are also examples of democratic systems that experiment with socialism (state ownership of capital property); Sweden is perhaps the best known example of this. Also, there are differing degrees (ranges) and mixes of fascism, socialism and what is laughingly known as free-market capitalism.

Most national economic systems are mixes of, generally, fascism and capitalism (the US system is essentially a dominant fascistic "corporate socialist" system layered on top of a still-vibrant small-business sector that is still largely free market, with some broad restrictions.

There are - and never have been - no "pure" systems. Even the Soviet Union allowed a small free market segment to operate in agriculture. I forget the exact numbers, but 10% or 15% of the land, privately owned, grew 80% of the food.

Defining characteristics.

Socialism: State owns the majority of the "means of production" (i.e.: capital goods production).

Fascism: State CONTROLS the majority of the "means of production" (i.e.: capital goods production) which generally remain in private hands.

(Note that Socialism and Fascism are closely related. Both are on the "economic control" end of the Economic Scale and (generally, with exceptions noted above) on the authoritarian/totalitarian end of the Liberty Scale. Fascism is, essentially, "Socialism Light.")

Capitalism: State activity is restricted to building/maintaining "commons" infrastructure, "defining the rules of the game," enforcing a level playing field, and protecting citizens from domestic and foreign aggression.

The U.S. has NEVER been a capitalist system. It started out, perhaps, 95% free market (consider things like the Whiskey Rebellion), but has gradually over the decades adopted greater and greater fascistic methods of organizing economic activity (this is a normal progression of any culture).
 
2012-12-29 05:08:48 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: "If you own and run a business in this country, the State absolutely has the right to tell you how you may do that, yes," So: in principle, what's the difference? Give me a straight answer or STFU.

It's called "the law", or are you claiming that businesses are above the law?

Ah yes, "the law." Hmmmm... there are so many ways I could answer this.....

But I suggest you read a fun little book by a gentleman named Frederic Bastiat Link (pick your edition).

Ummm.... which law are we talking about, again? The Constitutional provision that Negros were to be counted as 3/5ths of a human being? Or was it the various laws that Negros could not own firearms? Or maybe the law that required Jews to sew yellow stars on their clothing? Or is it the current law that women cannot leave their homes without having an escort of a male relative? Or the one where a rape is considered the fault of the woman and the penalty is death by stoning?

Roight, guv. Because all those things are just like requiring insurance to cover contraception.

Or how 'bout these gems: There are laws limiting pollution of the air, water and soil. Should businesses be above such laws because they're businesses?

I'm really not evading answering your question,

[i112.photobucket.com image 180x180]

How is a "legitimate" government different from a bandit warlord who exercises a monopoly of force over his domain, extracts supplies and provisions from the peasants in that area, impresses them into the gang, and protects them from the other warlords who want to do the same thing? (Warning, this is a trick question.)

The consent of the governed, dumbass.

Now, if you're advocating an anarchist position, answer me this (you're probably going to dodge it, and claim while doing so that you're not dodging it, just like you did above, but what the hey): How do you expect to avoid the rise of "bandit warlords" in an anarchist society?


>>>>>Roight, guv. Because all those things are just like requiring insurance to cover contraception.

They are just the same in the fact that they are LAWS. Whether they are just or unjust laws - why THAT'S what we are discussing, isn't it? You are ASSUMING that the law requiring insurance to cover contraception is just. Logical fallacy.

>>>>>Or how 'bout these gems: There are laws limiting pollution of the air, water and soil. Should businesses be above such laws because they're businesses?

Air, water and soil are "commons" items that the government SHOULD have been holding businesses accountable for polluting from the very start. But - as I pointed out in another post in this thread - the U.S. has had a peculiar form of private property violation I call "corporate socialism" for most of it's life. Private profit combined with public cost. A true free enterprise system would have privatized those costs. (This is one area where the U.S. is moving towards private property rights - the private property rights of the citizens who have to breath and use the polluted air, water and soil.) This, IMHO, is right and proper.

>>>>>[i112.photobucket.com image 180x180]

Whups! more ad hominem. Bad habit there. People might not take you seriously.

I said: How is a "legitimate" government different from a bandit warlord who exercises a monopoly of force over his domain, extracts supplies and provisions from the peasants in that area, impresses them into the gang, and protects them from the other warlords who want to do the same thing? (Warning, this is a trick question.)

>>>>>The consent of the governed, dumbass.

Hmmm.... consent? As in.... democracy? As in.... majority rule? (Careful, now!)

>>>>>Now, if you're advocating an anarchist position, answer me this (you're probably going to dodge it, and claim while doing so that you're not dodging it, just like you did above, but what the hey): How do you expect to avoid the rise of "bandit warlords" in an anarchist society?

I'm not an anarchist. As a stable system, it is an impossibility, just like communism. Neither has ever or ever will exist for longer than a couple of months, or perhaps years. You are correct: since it only takes one side to create a war/slaughter, there would be nothing to prevent the rise of bandit warlords.
 
2012-12-29 05:09:14 PM  

Uniquely Common: wait, what's wrong with being in your 30s and still enjoying video games? :-(


Or your 60's?

/keeps me off the streets, a good thing
 
2012-12-29 05:19:09 PM  

TanHamster: cameroncrazy1984: TanHamster: That's too bad, because this site was awesome.

Well, bye.

hey, douchebag, by any chance do you play a lot of video games? not married? no kids? still live in an apartment? in your 30s?

i'm all for ad hominem attacks, because it greatly simplifies the process of arguing with some 35 yr old who plays call of duty, and still thinks he knows jack shiat about being an adult


Lol, you think people are using ad hominem attacks against you.
 
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