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(NewsOK)   Hobby Lobby to continue hobby of lobbying Appeals Court to allow their other hobby of lobbing their beliefs on their employees private lobby hobbies   (newsok.com) divider line 526
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7701 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Dec 2012 at 4:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-28 05:26:09 PM

KidneyStone: I'm against my healthcare costs going up to pay for contraceptives. And that includes what I use.

How do you feel about your health care costs going up due to unplanned or unwanted pregnancies?

Birth control costs much much less than prenatal care, delivery with potential complications, postpartum care of the mother and then years of pediatric care.
 
2012-12-28 05:26:24 PM
As for the potential fines, Duncan said, "We're just going to have to cross that bridge when we come to it."
That's gonna be some fine mother farkin' green bridge.

I see this turning into George Wallace vs the Federal Government in the school integration issue.
 
2012-12-28 05:27:37 PM

special20: Romeo_Santana: Is that what CNN and John Stewart told you to think?

It's Jon, you farkin dumb ass. I guess it's not important in the bubble you live in.


;::notsureifserious.jpg:::::
 
2012-12-28 05:27:40 PM

KidneyStone: Bontesla: KidneyStone: Bontesla: KidneyStone: I have a big problem with the government making it a law that health insurance must pay for contraceptives. Ya wanna fark and not make babies? Cool, but don't make my health insurance costs go up because of it.

Uhm your health insurance costs Do go up because employers weren't forced to cover things like contraception. Who do you think eats those costs when an uninsured mother gives birth?

Uhm, the doctor/hospital, not the insurance company.

Wait - you think doctors and hospitals are giving out free medical care? With no compensation? Just for free because... They're notoriously nice?

Are you that naive or are you that stupid? If an uninsured mother is giving birth then where does she go? Doctor? Hospital? You pick one of those and tell us which one will turn away a woman in labor. If she is uninsured then how do the insurance companies get stuck with the bill? Do you suppose there's some general "uninsured mothers fund" where they all chip in or is it more of a round-robin thing where State Farm pays one week and then it's up to UHC and the next week it's someone else?

And they call ME stupid here.


LOL.

Insurance companies pay inflated prices that, when spread out, cover for the uninsured. Hospitals don't just eat those costs, they charge $900 for a friggin aspirin.
 
2012-12-28 05:28:05 PM

giftedmadness: Um...#1 violates the employers right to practice their religion.


BS.

No religion I have ever heard of says you can't partake in insurance.

If religions were to argue that any insurance they pay for has to follow their beliefs then what would stop people from claiming that they are christian scientists, and can pay for no procedures?

The fact is insurance, like OSHA standards are requirements if you want to employ people in the US. Saying they can't support insurance that allows BC is no different than saying they don't want their employees to wear respirators in a toxic environment.
 
2012-12-28 05:28:14 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: So now the State invades religion, and forces some people to pay for abortions against their religious beliefs. Seriously, how is this really different from forcing people to worship a particular religion?


Care to quote the section of the bible that says you can't pay for someone else's abortion?
 
2012-12-28 05:28:22 PM

Great Janitor: If you work for Company ABC and you think you should make more money and get certain benefits, it shouldn't be the government who forces Company ABC to make those changes. It should be up to you to make the change to get the benefits and pay that you believe that you deserve. If that means changing jobs or acquiring a new job skills set, then make those changes.


Because that worked out so well before the government got involved...
 
2012-12-28 05:28:31 PM

giftedmadness: Bontesla: imtheonlylp: ok, here goes..

if you don't like it, then find another job...it's not mandatory that you believe what they do nor is it mandatory that you are employed there...

Your logic:
1). Law is created to protect employees.
2). Employer violates law.
3). Punish employee.

Um...#1 violates the employers right to practice their religion....


...and forcing the employee to adhere to their employer's religion doesn't interfere with their right to not be subject to their employer's religion? Hobby Lobby's owners are more than free to not use contraception - they don't get to make the choice for their employees. Well, I suppose unless sex and/or procreation are part of their duties as employees, but I'm thinking it isn't that sort of place.
 
2012-12-28 05:30:03 PM

KidneyStone: Bontesla: KidneyStone: Bontesla: KidneyStone: I have a big problem with the government making it a law that health insurance must pay for contraceptives. Ya wanna fark and not make babies? Cool, but don't make my health insurance costs go up because of it.

Uhm your health insurance costs Do go up because employers weren't forced to cover things like contraception. Who do you think eats those costs when an uninsured mother gives birth?

Uhm, the doctor/hospital, not the insurance company.

Wait - you think doctors and hospitals are giving out free medical care? With no compensation? Just for free because... They're notoriously nice?

Are you that naive or are you that stupid? If an uninsured mother is giving birth then where does she go? Doctor? Hospital? You pick one of those and tell us which one will turn away a woman in labor. If she is uninsured then how do the insurance companies get stuck with the bill? Do you suppose there's some general "uninsured mothers fund" where they all chip in or is it more of a round-robin thing where State Farm pays one week and then it's up to UHC and the next week it's someone else?

And they call ME stupid here.


You ARE stupid.! All that money has to get made back by billing INSURED patients more to cover the loss. That is why there is a 500% markup on gauze and aspirin and other basics. That is how insurance companies and insured patients get stuck with the bill. How dense are you not to be able to follow this simple concept?
 
2012-12-28 05:30:43 PM

mmagdalene: Sin_City_Superhero: KidneyStone: I'm against my healthcare costs going up to pay for contraceptives. And that includes what I use.

You idiot.  Contraceptives cost LESS than a baby.  The BABY makes the cost go up.  Contraceptives prevent the expensive baby-making, thus costing LESS.  How do you not understand this?

Kidney stones, like babies, are entirely preventable. I resent paying for other peoples' failure to drink enough water.


And if insurance covering bottled water was cheaper than the cost of all kidney stone treatments, that would be a good idea too...
 
2012-12-28 05:31:25 PM

ProfessorOhki: giftedmadness: Bontesla: imtheonlylp: ok, here goes..

if you don't like it, then find another job...it's not mandatory that you believe what they do nor is it mandatory that you are employed there...

Your logic:
1). Law is created to protect employees.
2). Employer violates law.
3). Punish employee.

Um...#1 violates the employers right to practice their religion....

...and forcing the employee to adhere to their employer's religion doesn't interfere with their right to not be subject to their employer's religion? Hobby Lobby's owners are more than free to not use contraception - they don't get to make the choice for their employees. Well, I suppose unless sex and/or procreation are part of their duties as employees, but I'm thinking it isn't that sort of place.


I dunno. Someone upthread mentioned they interviewed with them and was informed they start at minimum wage, so it sounds like Hobby Lobby does like farking its employees.
 
2012-12-28 05:33:11 PM
It seems Hobby Lobby has already gone over the contraceptive cliff.
 
2012-12-28 05:33:13 PM

Bontesla: KidneyStone: I have a big problem with the government making it a law that health insurance must pay for contraceptives. Ya wanna fark and not make babies? Cool, but don't make my health insurance costs go up because of it.

Uhm your health insurance costs Do go up because employers weren't forced to cover things like contraception. Who do you think eats those costs when an uninsured mother gives birth?


You're assuming that the only way people can access contraceptives is if their health insurance pays for it.....that's a stupid assumption.
 
2012-12-28 05:33:37 PM

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: KidneyStone: Bontesla: KidneyStone: Bontesla: KidneyStone: I have a big problem with the government making it a law that health insurance must pay for contraceptives. Ya wanna fark and not make babies? Cool, but don't make my health insurance costs go up because of it.

Uhm your health insurance costs Do go up because employers weren't forced to cover things like contraception. Who do you think eats those costs when an uninsured mother gives birth?

Uhm, the doctor/hospital, not the insurance company.

Wait - you think doctors and hospitals are giving out free medical care? With no compensation? Just for free because... They're notoriously nice?

Are you that naive or are you that stupid? If an uninsured mother is giving birth then where does she go? Doctor? Hospital? You pick one of those and tell us which one will turn away a woman in labor. If she is uninsured then how do the insurance companies get stuck with the bill? Do you suppose there's some general "uninsured mothers fund" where they all chip in or is it more of a round-robin thing where State Farm pays one week and then it's up to UHC and the next week it's someone else?

And they call ME stupid here.

You ARE stupid.! All that money has to get made back by billing INSURED patients more to cover the loss. That is why there is a 500% markup on gauze and aspirin and other basics. That is how insurance companies and insured patients get stuck with the bill. How dense are you not to be able to follow this simple concept?


The hospital has several places where they can make up the shortfall: they can pay staff less, they can understaff, they jack up the insured patients' bills, they can put off building maintenance. You're both right, stupids.

/The only thing they can't do is cut admin salaries
//I mean, obviously
 
2012-12-28 05:34:03 PM

randomjsa: Once again...

Government: You must do this! It's the law because we say so!

Private Company: We don't want to do that, it violates our personal religious beliefs.

Liberals: Private company! Stop "forcing" your beliefs on your employees!

The only group here using force is the government because its the only thing in this scenario that can even use force but in the twisted and deranged mind of a liberal, somehow it becomes the company forcing things on people that they don't want instead of the government.


The Establishment clause exists for a reason. I'm sorry this bothers you.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled flamewar.
 
2012-12-28 05:34:20 PM

Great Janitor: Interestingly enough, I don't think they should have the ability to tell you who to marry or if you can or can not adopt a child.


So what? If you vote Republican, you're helping elect people who do think they should have the ability to tell me just that.
 
2012-12-28 05:35:09 PM

ghare: If Hobby Lobby closes due to a drop in sales, due to them being perceived by the public left as douchebags, then another art store will move in to take their place, and they will hire basically the same number of employees as Hobby Lobby did.


FTFY.... Let's see how bad it was for business last time.....

www.frugal-cafe.com
 
2012-12-28 05:35:20 PM

gaspode: cwolf20: On an unrelated note.

Owner with 6 employees figured up the math on providing insurance for the first time to his employees.

It'll be cheaper for him to take a 350 dollar hit per employee including himself and wife. Which wouldn't be an issue except she's never worked there. But the state government told him she always has. Meanwhile the employees will go forth and get Obama care.
False economy... it might be a tiny bit cheaper in the short term, but in terms of running a good long term business paying a few bucks a month per employee will pay back in spades. If he only had the sense.


It has nothing to do with its long-term viability, but everything to do with sticking it to the left at the expense of his employees.
 
2012-12-28 05:36:26 PM

randomjsa: Once again...

Government: You must do this! It's the law because we say so! -Must? Nobody said they need to hire people or pay for insurance, but if they do there are rules. If they don't want to pay insurance,they are can choose not too.

Private Company: We don't want to do that, it violates our personal religious beliefs. -No religion I have ever heard of has said paying into an insurance plan is against their religion. If we were to allow religions to opt out of labor rules on newly discovered whims (because unless you can point me to some religion using this argument before Obamacare, that is what this is) then any employee can just claim they don't believe in th emost expensive treatments, thus reducing their cost of doing business.



The rest of your derp falls apart once you understand the above bolded parts.
 
2012-12-28 05:36:44 PM

ghare: Great Janitor: Bontesla: Great Janitor: I really can't hate them for saying that they don't want to offer coverage that goes against their beliefs. They aren't saying that they don't want their female employees not to be on the pill or whatever, just that they don't want to offer those programs. If their employees don't like it, they can find work else where. It shouldn't be the government's position to tell businesses exactly what benefits they have to offer, what kind of healthcare packages they have to provide.

Why should your employer's religious preferences be imposed on the standard of insurance you can receive?

Other than offering insurance - the business has no business in my medical business.

Because they are paying for it.

Well, then, they obviously have the right to restrict what employees do with their paychecks too.


Your logic is awful, typical female emotional logic.  If I trade money for your work, I'm not paying you anything.  You are free to do with that money whatever you please.   Before Obamacare, I wasn't required to give you any healthcare, let alone something that goes against my religion.
 
2012-12-28 05:36:53 PM

Great Janitor: The Why Not Guy: Great Janitor: It shouldn't be the government's position to tell businesses exactly what benefits they have to offer, what kind of healthcare packages they have to provide.

Oh, but they can tell me who I can or cannot marry, and prevent me from adopting a child?

Conservatives. Bless their hearts. Please.

Interestingly enough, I don't think they should have the ability to tell you who to marry or if you can or can not adopt a child.

The role of the government should be small. Making sure we have infrastructure, clean water, a military and police and fire. That's about where it should end. Telling your employer how much you should be paid and what benefits you should or should not get shouldn't be the government's concern. If you work for Company ABC and you think you should make more money and get certain benefits, it shouldn't be the government who forces Company ABC to make those changes. It should be up to you to make the change to get the benefits and pay that you believe that you deserve. If that means changing jobs or acquiring a new job skills set, then make those changes.


GENERAL STRIKE!! GENERAL STRIKE!!
 
2012-12-28 05:37:30 PM

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: ghare: If Hobby Lobby closes due to a drop in sales, due to them being perceived by the public left as douchebags, then another art store will move in to take their place, and they will hire basically the same number of employees as Hobby Lobby did.

FTFY.... Let's see how bad it was for business last time.....

[www.frugal-cafe.com image 709x413]


That was ONE day.  It's not like those lines were there the next day...
 
2012-12-28 05:39:30 PM

giftedmadness: Bontesla: KidneyStone: I have a big problem with the government making it a law that health insurance must pay for contraceptives. Ya wanna fark and not make babies? Cool, but don't make my health insurance costs go up because of it.

Uhm your health insurance costs Do go up because employers weren't forced to cover things like contraception. Who do you think eats those costs when an uninsured mother gives birth?

You're assuming that the only way people can access contraceptives is if their health insurance pays for it.....that's a stupid assumption.


You're assuming that someone making minimum wage can afford to pay for a visit to the OBGYN to get a prescription for contraceptives out-of pocket as well as pay for the actual drugs.... that> is the stupid assumption. Why should a minimum wage employee take on such a huge health related cost out-of-pocket when they supposedly have health insurance? Family planning is a requirement for adults by because of natural processes. Type 2 diabetes is not, yet we are not debating covering the costs of that entirely avoidable condition. So really, WTF is your problem anyway?
 
2012-12-28 05:39:54 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: CreampuffCasperMilktoast: ghare: If Hobby Lobby closes due to a drop in sales, due to them being perceived by the public left as douchebags, then another art store will move in to take their place, and they will hire basically the same number of employees as Hobby Lobby did.

FTFY.... Let's see how bad it was for business last time.....

[www.frugal-cafe.com image 709x413]

That was ONE day.  It's not like those lines were there the next day...


They had fiscal quarter increases, but yeah the picture was more to show that point.
 
2012-12-28 05:40:45 PM

giftedmadness: let alone something that goes against my religion.


It's funny (both funny "ha ha" and funny "strange") to see the Conservatives who cheered our invasion of Iraq clutching their pearls over things that go against their religion.

War? Tens of thousands dead or injured? USA! USA! USA!
Birth control pills? Gasp!
 
2012-12-28 05:41:05 PM

clyph: What was the name of the religious leader who commanded his followers to cure the sick?

Oh right, is was Jesus.

But fundies only read the part of the bible that has smiting and abominations... they skip over the parts that say "feed and clothe the poor", "cure the sick", and "love one another". And especially the parts that say to give away your riches and pray in private. They NEVER read those parts.


um....conservative Christians donate more to help the poor than anyone else.  Also, how does providing a morning after pill "cure" someone?
 
2012-12-28 05:42:35 PM

giftedmadness: Before Obamacare, I wasn't required to give you any healthcare, let alone something that goes against my religion


You aren't required to now either.

You can choose not to and pay a fine.

I don't think it is an ideal solution, but aside from universal healthcare I don't see how else to get people covered. It is prohibitively expensive for an individual to get it on his own.
 
2012-12-28 05:45:18 PM

giftedmadness: um....conservative Christians donate more to help the poor than anyone else. Also, how does providing a morning after pill "cure" someone?


I think that person was highlighting the trend of "conservative Christians" doing everything in their power to stop any action that would help poor get better access to healthcare.
 
2012-12-28 05:45:34 PM

giftedmadness: clyph: What was the name of the religious leader who commanded his followers to cure the sick?

Oh right, is was Jesus.

But fundies only read the part of the bible that has smiting and abominations... they skip over the parts that say "feed and clothe the poor", "cure the sick", and "love one another". And especially the parts that say to give away your riches and pray in private. They NEVER read those parts.

um....conservative Christians donate more to help the poor build megachurches than anyone else.  Also, how does providing a morning after pill "cure" someone?


FTFY
 
2012-12-28 05:46:57 PM

liam76: giftedmadness: Before Obamacare, I wasn't required to give you any healthcare, let alone something that goes against my religion

You aren't required to now either.

You can choose not to and pay a fine.

I don't think it is an ideal solution, but aside from universal healthcare I don't see how else to get people covered. It is prohibitively expensive for an individual to get it on his own.


The definition of a "fine" is "A sum of money required to be paid as a penalty for an offense." So it sort of is required, you can just choose to break the law and suffer the consequences, which is in the form of a fine.
 
2012-12-28 05:48:15 PM

ProfessorOhki:

The hospital has several places where they can make up the shortfall: they can pay staff less, they can understaff, they jack up the insured patients' bills, they can put off building maintenance. You're both right, stupids.

/The only thing they can't do is cut admin salaries
//I mean, obviously


Hospitals do not have several places where they can make up the shortfall. They can increase revenue, or decrease expenses. The former is billing the paying patients more which I mentioned, the latter involves shorting the quality of care that is provided. No one in their right mind would argue that providing lower quality care to insured patients is a viable solution, not while malpractice liability exists.

You honestly believe skipping annual (monthly) HVAC maintenance or not replacing burned out florescent light bulbs right-away is how hospitals cover their losses from treating uninsured patients?
 
2012-12-28 05:48:31 PM
Its a christianly good store. If not for their occasional 40% off coupon, I wouldnt go near that farking place.
 
2012-12-28 05:50:00 PM

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: The definition of a "fine" is "A sum of money required to be paid as a penalty for an offense." So it sort of is required, you can just choose to break the law and suffer the consequences, which is in the form of a fine.


The claim was that you were forced to do it.

If the fine increased every time, or you would eventually lose your business license if you didn't have healthcare, I would accept that claim. But since you can pay a "tax" "penalty" or "fine" to get out of it then it isn't required.
 
2012-12-28 05:50:31 PM
i2.squidoocdn.com

Holly Hobbie frowns on your shenanigans.

/I assume
 
2012-12-28 05:50:37 PM

giftedmadness: .conservative Christians donate more to help the poor than anyone else


How much of that is non-required tithing?
 
2012-12-28 05:52:40 PM

KidneyStone: ghare: KidneyStone: the_end_is_rear: KidneyStone: I have a big problem with the government making it a law that health insurance must pay for contraceptives. Ya wanna fark and not make babies? Cool, but don't make my health insurance costs go up because of it.

Contraceptives are cheaper then babies

Personal responsibility is free

/and may as well be a unicorn these days

?? People want contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancies, they try to go to their doctor to get them (acting responsibly) but find their EMPLOYER has interfered with them trying to act responsibly, and you think this is good?

Ahh, the Modern Republican: willfully, insistently stupid, and proud of it.

I never said they're not allowed to have them. I never said anything about not paying for a doctor visit. I never said i was even AGAINST contraceptives.

I'm against my healthcare costs going up to pay for contraceptives. And that includes what I use.

Ahh, the Modern Presumptuous Douchebag: Clueless, insistently entitled, and proud of it.

/I'm a Libertarian. Some conservative views without all the bullshiat worrying about who sleeps with who or who prays to whatever they call god


Um, you are NOT a libertarian.  If you were one, you would allow a company to provide whatever benefits they damn well pleased.
 
2012-12-28 05:53:14 PM

ElwoodCuse: Yes, the pill, morning-after pill, and IUDs are "abortion-causing devices". Whatta maroon.


Seriously...if that's the angle they use, then half of the products on their shelves (various chemicals, glues, xacto blades, wiring, hand tools) are abortion-causing devices.

/doesn't shop at HL
//Petco of Hobby stores
///prefers specialty shops that actually know their farking products
 
2012-12-28 05:53:49 PM

giftedmadness: um....conservative Christians donate more to help the poor than anyone else.


Donating to a church counts as donating to charity, but it doesn't necessarily equal donating to the poor. Many churches do wonderful work for the poor. Many churches do not.
 
2012-12-28 05:55:07 PM

giftedmadness: clyph: What was the name of the religious leader who commanded his followers to cure the sick?

Oh right, is was Jesus.

But fundies only read the part of the bible that has smiting and abominations... they skip over the parts that say "feed and clothe the poor", "cure the sick", and "love one another". And especially the parts that say to give away your riches and pray in private. They NEVER read those parts.

um....conservative Christians donate more to help the poor than anyone else.  Also, how does providing a morning after pill "cure" someone?


[citation needed]

Difficulty: Don't count tithes, political lobbying, or contributions to megachurch leader's pockets as "donations."

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: The definition of a "fine" is "A sum of money required to be paid as a penalty for an offense." So it sort of is required, you can just choose to break the law and suffer the consequences, which is in the form of a fine.


That's true, but the supreme court already ruled that it is a tax, not a fine penalty, so the semantics of "fine" don't matter here.
 
2012-12-28 05:55:25 PM

fanbladesaresharp: ElwoodCuse: Yes, the pill, morning-after pill, and IUDs are "abortion-causing devices". Whatta maroon.

Seriously...if that's the angle they use, then half of the products on their shelves (various chemicals, glues, xacto blades, wiring, hand tools) are abortion-causing devices.

/doesn't shop at HL
//Petco of Hobby stores
///prefers specialty shops that actually know their farking products


COMPLETELY off-topic, but curious. What's the story with Petco? I actually prefer them to PetSmart but that has more to do with selection than anything else. Judging by the slashies I would guess you take issue with the knowledge level of their staff?
 
2012-12-28 05:55:53 PM

giftedmadness: Um...#1 violates the employers right to practice their religion....


Learn the difference between "practicing your religion" and "imposing your religion on other people".

Your right to practice YOUR religion ENDS where my right to practice MY religion BEGINS. That's the distinction you teabagging fundie assholes never seem to understand. Practicing your religion means "I must wear magic underwear". That's fine. What we have a problem with is when you say "My employees must wear magic underwear".

Practice your own farking religion to your heart's content. Wear funny hats and magic underwear, eat special food, abstain from sex and dancing, whatever you think makes your invisible sky wizard happy -- all perfectly fine with us. Just leave the rest of us out of it.

If you're right, we're going to hell anyway. That's actually fine with us, as long as our afterlife doesn't mean spending an eternity surrounded by self-righteous douchebags like you.
 
2012-12-28 05:57:14 PM

randomjsa: Once again...

Government: You must do this! It's the law because we say so!

Private Company: We don't want to do that, it violates our personal religious beliefs.

Liberals: Private company! Stop "forcing" your beliefs on your employees!

The only group here using force is the government because its the only thing in this scenario that can even use force but in the twisted and deranged mind of a liberal, somehow it becomes the company forcing things on people that they don't want instead of the government.


Very very well put.  Bravo.
 
2012-12-28 05:57:59 PM
I feel like I do a good job of boycotting companies that like to refuse basic rights because of religion or flying spaghetti monsters or whatever. I'm just not sure I can live without Hobby Lobby in my life. Their sales are all sorts of amazing.
 
2012-12-28 05:58:26 PM

Great Janitor: It shouldn't be the government's position to tell businesses exactly what benefits they have to offer, what kind of healthcare packages they have to provide.


or who they have to sell to or if they have to have handicap access. you and rand paul would fit right in at the sit ins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-in

btw are you against minimum wage also?
 
2012-12-28 05:58:46 PM

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: ProfessorOhki:

The hospital has several places where they can make up the shortfall: they can pay staff less, they can understaff, they jack up the insured patients' bills, they can put off building maintenance. You're both right, stupids.

/The only thing they can't do is cut admin salaries
//I mean, obviously

Hospitals do not have several places where they can make up the shortfall. They can increase revenue, or decrease expenses. The former is billing the paying patients more which I mentioned, the latter involves shorting the quality of care that is provided. No one in their right mind would argue that providing lower quality care to insured patients is a viable solution, not while malpractice liability exists.

You honestly believe skipping annual (monthly) HVAC maintenance or not replacing burned out florescent light bulbs right-away is how hospitals cover their losses from treating uninsured patients?


No, but working staff long hours without enough pay to make up for it is a form of decreasing expenses and you better believe it happens. So, go ahead and tell me again how doctors bear none of the burden.
 
2012-12-28 05:59:39 PM

Bontesla: KidneyStone: ghare: KidneyStone: the_end_is_rear: KidneyStone: I have a big problem with the government making it a law that health insurance must pay for contraceptives. Ya wanna fark and not make babies? Cool, but don't make my health insurance costs go up because of it.

Contraceptives are cheaper then babies

Personal responsibility is free

/and may as well be a unicorn these days

?? People want contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancies, they try to go to their doctor to get them (acting responsibly) but find their EMPLOYER has interfered with them trying to act responsibly, and you think this is good?

Ahh, the Modern Republican: willfully, insistently stupid, and proud of it.

I never said they're not allowed to have them. I never said anything about not paying for a doctor visit. I never said i was even AGAINST contraceptives.

I'm against my healthcare costs going up to pay for contraceptives. And that includes what I use.

Ahh, the Modern Presumptuous Douchebag: Clueless, insistently entitled, and proud of it.

/I'm a Libertarian. Some conservative views without all the bullshiat worrying about who sleeps with who or who prays to whatever they call god

Your health care costs will go up regardless, kitten.

And they go up - often - because uninsured are seeking medical treatment.


Switching to a different debate point, nancy?

Gotcha!
 
2012-12-28 06:00:38 PM

dr_blasto: giftedmadness: ThrobblefootSpectre: Religious belief does not make you exempt from law that affects everyone.* You do not get to deny health benefits, hide your face for a driver's licence photo, beat your children for having a boyfriend, or smoke weed.


*(Unless your ancestors were here before the U.S. existed and peyote is a historically documented part of your religion.)

false equivalence.   Nobody is forcing people to work for Hobby Lobby.  If they don't like the health benefits offered by HL, they can apply for a job elsewhere.

Nobody is forcing Hobby Lobby to sell their shiat in the United States. If Hobby Lobby doesn't like the US, they can go run their business elsewhere.


wtf....I don't even.....have the words....wtf......lol
 
2012-12-28 06:00:48 PM
I would be wondering what the underlying condition of the company is at this time. This would give them a way to shut it down without taking any of the blame. If this company is privately held, their next step will be to shutter it and blame it on the government. I hope they don't expect to see the kind of faux support that Chik Fillet got. They were in the much better situation of having supporters who were hungry every day. You can only stockpile so much of the artsy crafty merch.
 
2012-12-28 06:02:15 PM
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
 
2012-12-28 06:02:17 PM

giftedmadness: dr_blasto: giftedmadness: ThrobblefootSpectre: Religious belief does not make you exempt from law that affects everyone.* You do not get to deny health benefits, hide your face for a driver's licence photo, beat your children for having a boyfriend, or smoke weed.


*(Unless your ancestors were here before the U.S. existed and peyote is a historically documented part of your religion.)

false equivalence.   Nobody is forcing people to work for Hobby Lobby.  If they don't like the health benefits offered by HL, they can apply for a job elsewhere.

Nobody is forcing Hobby Lobby to sell their shiat in the United States. If Hobby Lobby doesn't like the US, they can go run their business elsewhere.

wtf....I don't even.....have the words....wtf......lol


What? What's wrong?
 
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