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(Columbia Journalism Review)   Do super PACS have a right to lie?   (cjr.org) divider line 79
    More: Interesting, Florida Senate, media studies, reckless disregard, Gipper, Annenberg Public Policy Center, actual malice, permanent campaign  
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2818 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Dec 2012 at 4:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-28 10:37:58 AM
Yes, just as we should have the right to forcibly dissolve them should they be proven liars.
 
2012-12-28 10:56:36 AM
I just adore that we're basically forced to create an entire media industry centered around calling out political lies, and the lying liars that tell them.  Sure would be nice if we could just punish the liars, so they would stop lying.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-28 11:01:36 AM
i don't think they have a right to exist.
 
2012-12-28 11:03:20 AM
They should at least be accountable for liable.  Screw fact checking, sue the hell out of them.
 
2012-12-28 11:19:52 AM
If their donor list is fully disclosed, yes.
 
2012-12-28 11:24:46 AM
Don't make it illegal. Create a private of action within the existing defamation laws.
 
2012-12-28 11:27:11 AM

Elandriel: I just adore that we're basically forced to create an entire media industry centered around calling out political lies,


What country do you live in?  The drive-by gotcha lamestream msm media here in America thinks that responsible journalism means giving both sides equal time even when one side is spouting easily disprovable nonsense.
 
2012-12-28 11:40:34 AM
If you can't lie on tv, there isn't going to be shiat on anywhere.
 
2012-12-28 11:40:58 AM
vpb: i don't think they have a right to exist.

QFT!
 
2012-12-28 11:54:29 AM
5k fine?

Blue light special on lies, aisle 9.
 
2012-12-28 12:06:51 PM

PreMortem: 5k fine?

Blue light special on lies, aisle 9.


Seriously, fines for companies should be crippling.  For PACs, it's double the money that was paid for the ad to run.
 
2012-12-28 12:07:21 PM
Of course. Super PACs are people, my friend.

www.esquire.com
 
2012-12-28 12:26:50 PM

Saberus Terras: Yes, just as we should have the right to forcibly dissolve them should they be proven liars.


I like it.  Can we do that with politicians too?
 
2012-12-28 12:28:49 PM
Sure. Fox News does it all the time
 
2012-12-28 12:37:19 PM

gilgigamesh: Saberus Terras: Yes, just as we should have the right to forcibly dissolve them should they be proven liars.

I like it.  Can we do that with politicians too?


Liars and the Lye They Lie In.
 
2012-12-28 02:01:17 PM
It would help if she won her lawsuit and she was awarded 100 million dollars. Bankrupting them for lying would go a long way to solving at least part of the problem. And it would be so satisfying!
 
2012-12-28 02:22:31 PM

gilgigamesh: Saberus Terras: Yes, just as we should have the right to forcibly dissolve them should they be proven liars.

I like it.  Can we do that with politicians too?


Dissolve them?

2.bp.blogspot.com
I like it also, too.
 
2012-12-28 02:47:54 PM

RexTalionis: gilgigamesh: Saberus Terras: Yes, just as we should have the right to forcibly dissolve them should they be proven liars.

I like it.  Can we do that with politicians too?

Liars and the Lye They Lie In.


Only when they know it's a lie, if they're spouting BS because they don't know better, they need a Gibbs smack, aka a Brainduster or 'Percussive Education'.
 
2012-12-28 03:19:32 PM

GAT_00: PreMortem: 5k fine?

Blue light special on lies, aisle 9.

Seriously, fines for companies should be crippling.  For PACs, it's double the money that was paid for the ad to run.


per lie, regardless of the number of lies in the ad.
 
2012-12-28 03:47:13 PM
Lying is what Super PACS were formed to do.  Take away their ability to lie and they'll be forced out of existence.

NTTAWWT.
 
2012-12-28 03:49:31 PM

PreMortem: 5k fine?


I agree.  That it is a fairly weak fine, even if it is applied on a per ad basis.  It is little more than a tax for doing business as usual.

Slap some criminal conspiracy charges against these SuperPACs and then you might grab some attention.
 
2012-12-28 04:13:51 PM
Isn't lying the reason they're created in the first place?
 
2012-12-28 04:16:09 PM
There's the truth, and then there's the truth.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-28 04:18:01 PM
Of course they do. Money is speech. They just can't yell "Fire!" In a theater.

idon'twanttoliveonthisplanetanymore.jpg
 
2012-12-28 04:19:12 PM

Kibbler: Isn't lying the reason they're created in the first place?


Pretty much, yeah.
 
2012-12-28 04:21:50 PM
Since Super PACs are the embodiment of Freedom of Speech (see Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (Docket No. 08-205)), then yeah, they have a right to lie so long as it isn't slander.

/amirite?
 
2012-12-28 04:32:25 PM
No legal fiction should have any "rights". A superpac is property, in a sane society it would have no more rights than my teacup.
 
2012-12-28 04:35:38 PM
FTA Groups found guilty of smears by a nonpartisan state commission could be fined up to $5,000.

Ooh, $5,000. That's gonna stop 'em.
 
2012-12-28 04:36:18 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: No legal fiction should have any "rights". A superpac is property, in a sane society it would have no more rights than my teacup.


What do you have against teacups?
 
2012-12-28 04:36:23 PM

Lionel Mandrake: gilgigamesh: Saberus Terras: Yes, just as we should have the right to forcibly dissolve them should they be proven liars.

I like it.  Can we do that with politicians too?

Dissolve them?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 280x373]
I like it also, too.


When did they start selling Thunder Muscle in 55 gallon drums?
 
2012-12-28 04:38:14 PM
No individual or organization who is in the business of influencing politics in this country has a "right" to lie. IAC, they only make that claim when they get caught at it.

/screw 'em
//hard
 
2012-12-28 04:42:57 PM
ooh, ooh, can we put Glenn Kessler in as arbitrator? That will totally work.
 
2012-12-28 04:44:33 PM
If corporations are people then how do we put them in jail?
 
2012-12-28 04:46:10 PM
They should be able to lie as much as the politicians they're supporting do. Which is all of them
 
2012-12-28 04:46:39 PM

vpb: i don't think they have a right to exist.


I agree. PACs and Lobbying isn't mentioned in the Constitution. I think most Originalists would agree that if the Founding Fathers wanted Super PACs and Lobbiest, they'd have included them in the Constitution.
 
2012-12-28 04:50:43 PM
The question isn't do they have a right to lie but more like do they have an obligation to tell the truth?

Like the news doesn't.
 
2012-12-28 04:51:41 PM
From TFA: Groups found guilty of smears by a nonpartisan state commission could be fined up to $5,000.

Uh huh. How much do the TV ads cost, again? That's a drop in the advertising budget.
 
2012-12-28 04:52:23 PM
Right? Right?

It's their duty. Their raison d'etre. Their point fixe!

Why, they'd be some Super PAC if they didn't lie!
 
2012-12-28 04:56:36 PM

mksmith: No individual or organization who is in the business of influencing politics in this country has a "right" to lie.


That may not be true.  Two news anchors from Florida sued Fox News after they were fired for refusing to report on a story they knew was false.  They sued under a Florida whistleblower law while referencing an FCC rule prohibiting intentional falsification of the news.  After several appeals, Fox News was able to win by showing that the FCC rule was not a law, thereby stripping the FCC of the power to enforce it.

Given that no other state or federal laws against intentional falsification were brought forward, one might assume that there are none, save for when lies are used to libel or slander.  As such, the news anchors lost their ability to suggest that they were trying to avoid an unlawful action.
 
2012-12-28 05:02:12 PM

RexTalionis: gilgigamesh: Saberus Terras: Yes, just as we should have the right to forcibly dissolve them should they be proven liars.

I like it.  Can we do that with politicians too?

Liars and the Lye They Lie In.


What can we dissolve punsters with?
 
2012-12-28 05:02:39 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Sure. Fox News does it all the time


But remember when Clinton does it, there must be a national movement to impeach him.
 
2012-12-28 05:06:59 PM

Dinjiin: mksmith: No individual or organization who is in the business of influencing politics in this country has a "right" to lie.

That may not be true.  Two news anchors from Florida sued Fox News after they were fired for refusing to report on a story they knew was false.  They sued under a Florida whistleblower law while referencing an FCC rule prohibiting intentional falsification of the news.  After several appeals, Fox News was able to win by showing that the FCC rule was not a law, thereby stripping the FCC of the power to enforce it.

Given that no other state or federal laws against intentional falsification were brought forward, one might assume that there are none, save for when lies are used to libel or slander.  As such, the news anchors lost their ability to suggest that they were trying to avoid an unlawful action.


No court in Florida (or any other state for that matter) has the authority strip the FCC of any powers.

The Court ruled that the local TV station (not Fox News) did not violate a LAW within the meaning of the whistleblower statute (which says you cannot fire someone because they report you to the authorities for breaking a LAW). The court said that because the guideline in question was just a policy and not an actual law or formally promulgated administrative rule, that the whistleblower statute did not apply.
 
2012-12-28 05:08:26 PM

Gyrfalcon: RexTalionis: gilgigamesh: Saberus Terras: Yes, just as we should have the right to forcibly dissolve them should they be proven liars.

I like it.  Can we do that with politicians too?

Liars and the Lye They Lie In.

What can we dissolve punsters with?


They have to lie down in a puddle of hydro-floor-ic acid.
 
2012-12-28 05:10:57 PM
They should be liable for slander, and courts should be allowed to issue gag orders pending litigation.

That would pretty much solve the entire problem, in my mind.
 
2012-12-28 05:12:32 PM

make me some tea: They should be liable for slander, and courts should be allowed to issue gag orders pending litigation.

That would pretty much solve the entire problem, in my mind.


I LIKE
 
2012-12-28 05:12:55 PM

make me some tea: They should be liable for slander, and courts should be allowed to issue gag orders pending litigation.

That would pretty much solve the entire problem, in my mind.


Of course that would be quickly abused by just about everyone, and create a whole 'nother mess. Nevermind.
 
2012-12-28 05:32:30 PM
Freedom of the press seems to include the right to mislead and simply not report things if not outright lie so I'm not seeing why freedom of speech should be held to a different standard.
 
2012-12-28 05:38:51 PM

CourtroomWolf: Gyrfalcon: RexTalionis: gilgigamesh: Saberus Terras: Yes, just as we should have the right to forcibly dissolve them should they be proven liars.

I like it.  Can we do that with politicians too?

Liars and the Lye They Lie In.

What can we dissolve punsters with?

They have to lie down in a puddle of hydro-floor-ic acid.


Win.
 
2012-12-28 05:41:15 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Dissolve them?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 280x373]
I like it also, too.


Bonus points if they can be dissolved in lye.
 
2012-12-28 05:42:00 PM
Damnation, I need to remember to only load one thread at a time here.
 
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