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(Fox News)   Three shot, one injured inside New Jersey Police station. If only the police had been armed, this would never have happened   (foxnews.com) divider line 555
    More: News, New Jersey, police stations, stairwell  
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12575 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Dec 2012 at 9:04 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-28 09:51:35 AM  
This reminds me of when I was working the front desk at a police station back in 1984.

This guy comes in and says he's looking for a woman, who was at the station making a statement. I tell the guy to cool it in the lounge and wait for her to come out. Don't you know about thirty seconds later that guy rammed his car through the front of the station, crushing me in my booth?

Then he proceeds to come into the station and shoot up the place.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:51:56 AM  

Infernalist: I said 'civilized' world. I'm fairly sure that BURMA is not a country we should be looking up to, son.


Even more hysterical. So you only want to include white folks in your sophisticated analysis of "the way things should work" instead of all of those brown folks who now compose more than 70% of the world.

Do tell me, son, how effective England and Australia have been at protecting said white folks from assault, robbery, daytime burglary, rape, and so on. Wait, before you answer, at least read one scholarly work published well before the Newtown tragedy. Try this one here:

http://www.joyceleemalcolm.com/books/guns_and_violence

On the extremely high likelihood that you're not going to bother to read up on any fact-based analysis, I'll summarize: disarming the law-abiding citizens did nothing other than empower the criminals who now basically do whatever they want.
 
2012-12-28 09:52:13 AM  
If only someone could explain why only 3 people were shot... hmm, it's a little hard....
 
2012-12-28 09:52:33 AM  

Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.


If you're one of the seven, it's pretty significant.
 
2012-12-28 09:52:39 AM  
I bet the air really smelled of sulphur
 
2012-12-28 09:52:49 AM  

GanjSmokr: Infernalist: Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: I know, right? It's always funny until it happens to someone you personally give a shiat about.

I don't give a shiat about a criminal who went for a cop's gun and lost.

I know you don't. You see a nameless, faceless loser who got what he deserved. And I pity you for your lack of comprehension.

You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.

I'm saying he shouldn't have had to have died because some farking retard of a cop left his gun unsecured.

So you don't believe that this person should have been punished for his decision to take that retard of a cop's gun and start shooting at the other officers in the building? Is this entrapment of some kind in your mind? It's all the fault of the gun again, not the person pulling the trigger?


/the idiocy in this thread is much deeper than the previous gun threads recently.


Misbehaving? That's a shooting.
Tell a lie? That's a shooting.

Or wait... Do you use some other forms of punishment? Perhaps non-lethal forms? Because given your post - the you imply only one for exists.
 
2012-12-28 09:52:57 AM  

TheTrashcanMan: Chinchillazilla: Days since last mass shooting: 0

Your definition of "mass" confuses me.


/there is gang related gun violence about... every damn day.
//but if its a bunch of white people getting shot, god help us.


Sorry. How many people have to get shot at once for it to be noteworthy? 26 is definitely enough, 3 is not. Where's the line, so I know in the future?
 
2012-12-28 09:53:03 AM  

Bontesla: The fact is you're hiring a RESPONDER and not a preventer. So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.


Seven lives aren't significant?

Why can't we do both, in hiring responders *AND* preventers?
 
2012-12-28 09:53:16 AM  

bulldg4life: dittybopper: Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.

Dancin_In_Anson: Yep. But we can't let that get in the way of a good derpfest!

Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.

At which point in the past few weeks has any argument been made to keep guns out of the hands of police officers?

You know, continuing to harp on events where trained police officers stopped a shooting doesn't further the argument that you are intending to make. I mean, assuming you aren't just making silly comments to further some twisted agenda because reasonable discussion about a serious problem is beyond your pay grade.

Just think, if the police officers DIDN'T have guns, the person in custody wouldn't have been able to steal a weapon and shoot three people.


Nice one. Self-pwned much?
 
2012-12-28 09:53:27 AM  

Infernalist: So, if wasn't unsecured, how did he manage to get it?


You're right. It must have just been laying there on the table right next to him.
 
2012-12-28 09:53:45 AM  

Kit Fister: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

How many people have died since Newtown as a result of Murder? more than 500+. How many have died since Newton due to cancer caused by cigarettes? How many by auto accidents and drunk drivers?

Now how many of those 500+ have been suicides?

Your crass statements about the patheticness are misleading and eggregiously stupid.


So is your spelling. Anyway, this thread isn't about people dying of cancer, or people dying in auto accidents either with or without the aid of a drunk driver. This is yet another thread about yet another moron who decided to take his gun and play bang bang bang out in public. I'm not arguing that before Sandy Hook this never happened, what I'm saying is that since Sandy Hook, it seems like it's happened more frequently than usual. Maybe people are more hyper-aware of this stuff now, I don't know.

I just found it pathetic that yet again, some moron decided to go play bang bang bang with his toy.
 
2012-12-28 09:53:47 AM  

tbhouston: I wish I could get shot without being injured


Ummm...  You could get a job in porn.
 
2012-12-28 09:53:48 AM  
I hate to be this guy but "MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed."

So he only managed to shoot a couple people before being taken out. Versus 10 times that number in Newton. I don't understand why people act like armed police officers in school is some outrageous thing, we had an armed police officer on campus sometimes at my high school, which was a nice high school in a nice area. That guy from meet the press apparantly has his kids in a school with a security staff of 11.

I think it doesn't fit gun control advocate's message so they try and dismiss it out of hand. I don't own any guns, nor own stock in companies that make them, this isn't an agenda talking, just common sense.
 
2012-12-28 09:55:08 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: And the green light trolling continues.


What? Haven't you noticed the reasonable discourse, leading to mutually acceptable proposals regarding gun control and school safety?

Heh. Actually, I noticed most of those guys disappeared days ago...
 
2012-12-28 09:55:32 AM  
"The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

This is great evidence for not arming our school staff and banning some types of guns. In fact, yesterday a woman pushed a man in front of a subway, killing him. Seeing as I don't use the Subway and their only purpose is to commit horrific murders, they should be banned immediately. Any subway riders who disagree are sick, twisted farks who care only for their little toys and have no regard for innocent human lives.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:01 AM  

The Muthaship: Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.

Really?


Hey. What's seven lives worth compared to being able to go out and shoot high-powered weaponry and get drunk for the shiat of it? I'm sure the families of the dead understand that their loved ones died for the noble cause of letting rednecks get drunk and shoot shiat on the weekend.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:09 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: I bet the air really smelled of sulphur


I doubt it. That's a feature of black powder, not smokeless powder.

/Loves the smell of "The Devil's Flatulence".
 
2012-12-28 09:56:13 AM  
this wasn't some random crazy walking into and shooting up a police station.  This was someone already arrested getting loose, grabbing a cops gun and then shooting the guys who brought him in.  Still unfortunate, but doesn't count as a mass shooting.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:19 AM  

People_are_Idiots:

To the cops that got shot: I'm glad it wasn't worse. Hope the cop with the belly wound makes it through to full duty.


I'm interpreting this differently from the way you had intended. Gross.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:24 AM  
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-28 09:56:32 AM  

imontheinternet: pdee: imontheinternet: BizarreMan: If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.

FTFA:  The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said.

As mentioned above, I'm sure teachers would be able to protect their firearms much better than trained law enforcement personnel.

I'm sure teachers have to deal with large, angry ,drunk criminal types all the time like cops do.

Apples =/= Oranges.

You realize gang members go to school, right?


While Im opposed to arming teachers you do have a point. Perhapse I should change my mind.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:47 AM  

Kit Fister: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

How many people have died since Newtown as a result of Murder? more than 500+. How many have died since Newton due to cancer caused by cigarettes? How many by auto accidents and drunk drivers?

Now how many of those 500+ have been suicides?

Your crass statements about the patheticness are misleading and eggregiously stupid.


You're understanding of nuance is limited. Low-effort thinker? Poor kit.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:48 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Uhm, to the cop that had his gun stolen: They make special holsters now to prevent that from happening.

To the cops that attended to him un-cuffed: Next time, try cuffing him until the weapons are secured.

To the cops that got shot: I'm glad it wasn't worse. Hope the cop with the belly wound makes it through to full duty.

To the cops that shot and killed the idiot: Good call. Glad you came out without any fatalities (well, save for the dead idiot).


We just went to those new double retention holsters, they are nice but if someone knows how they work they could still get your gun. They say police station not jail..here those are two different places so this guy could have been coming to turn himself in on the DV warrant, that happens alot. So he might not even have been in cuffs yet if so, definitely not in the front. I don't know of anyone, outside of the jail, that would cuff in the front.

My thought is this all happened when they went to cuff him. Over powered one officer, got his gun, two responded to help. He was gut shot fighting for the gun.

my .02...
 
2012-12-28 09:57:00 AM  
Left out :

/on my Facebook Feed this morning
 
2012-12-28 09:57:43 AM  

Civil_War2_Time: Nice one. Self-pwned much?


Not really, because it is a stupid argument.

In response to recent shootings, no reasonable person is going to advocate removing guns from police officers. I surely don't see it as a solution and the nitwit in this thread advocating it seems to be the only one even coming close to making the statement.

However, there are countless people blindly making a comment about how having guns stopped the shooter after three wounds...the inverse of that would be no guns in the station causing no wounds at all.

It is a stupid simplistic argument.
 
2012-12-28 09:57:52 AM  

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: "The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

This is great evidence for not arming our school staff and banning some types of guns. In fact, yesterday a woman pushed a man in front of a subway, killing him. Seeing as I don't use the Subway and their only purpose is to commit horrific murders, they should be banned immediately. Any subway riders who disagree are sick, twisted farks who care only for their little toys and have no regard for innocent human lives.


Idiots keep making this argument about cars, trains, pencils, whatever, without a hint of understanding how farking retarded it is.
 
2012-12-28 09:57:54 AM  

Kiriyama9000: Are you all retarded?

"Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident when a struggle with officers ensued at around 5:30 a.m. The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work.


In many stations, cops check their service sidearms as they enter... when bad guys go to try to escape, they neither have guns, nor can they get them from the locked boxes at the entrance... what there is is a wall of cops who are well trained, and one unarmed guy, they force him to the floor, do a better job of restraining him (seems pretty obvious that whenever a criminal gets loose enough to fight, that's not how things are supposed to work), and carry on with their day... nobody gets shot, certainly nobody gets killed, and everyone goes on with their day after a minor scuffle... the guy gets an additional couple counts of battery on a peace officer, and the officer who did a shiat job of restraining the suspect in the first place gets reviewed to see if he violated policy in the course of his failure to control the suspect... everyone goes either home or to jail alive... and that's how things are supposed to work.

/mind boggling that you think a criminal getting a cops gun is how things are supposed to work.
 
2012-12-28 09:58:02 AM  

Bontesla: MisbehavingStealing a cop's gun? That's a shooting.
Tell a lieShooting at cops with that stolen gun? That's a shooting.


FTFY.
Or did you really believe that this particular guy was just "misbehaving"?
 
2012-12-28 09:58:17 AM  
Many police stations have lock boxes at the vestibule of the in-booking area where police lock their weapon before escorting a subject in. I guess this one did not.
 
2012-12-28 09:58:42 AM  

KIA: Actually, the police were wearing body armor which Feinstein is still trying to make illegal for civilians.


citationneeded.jpg
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:58:55 AM  

Coco LaFemme: KIA: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown? Something like 500+?

About the same number that have died as a result of the flu. Same as always. Did you get your flu shot?

Yup.  Though I'd like to see something empirical that says over 500 people have died of the flu in the last three weeks.


Last summer, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a report showing that over 20,000 people a year die in the U.S. as a result of influenza. About 90% of those people are over age 65, even though people over 65 make up only about 15% of the population.

See here: http://www.usmedicine.com/compendium/with-90-of-us-influenza-deaths-in -elderly-new-high-dose-vaccine-seeks-lower-mortality-morbidity-rates.h tml

CDC reported firearm homicides from 2009 as 11,493. Verify here http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Homicide is ranked #15 on the causes of death chart, far below heart disease, diabetes, influenza, septicemia, cirrhosis, and hypertension. Heck, it's lower than Parkinson's disease. Verify: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf
Heart disease and cancer caused 47.9% of the deaths all by themselves. Homicide itself was down 6.8% from 2008. Id.

By the way, the vast majority of firearms homicides are committed by people with prior criminal records. In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996. Other sources suggest that as much as 90% of all firearms offenses are committed by people with prior criminal convictions.
 
2012-12-28 09:59:08 AM  
Police should not have guns, but they should be mandatory for everyone else.
 
2012-12-28 09:59:10 AM  

Fissile: Wayne LaPierre has the solution to this problem: Place armed teachers inside every police station.


We can't trust teachers around the juvies. We should probably just arm a kindergartener in every station.
 
2012-12-28 09:59:49 AM  

imontheinternet: I've been saying it for years.  Every police officer should be issued a rocket-propelled grenade launcher and claymores.  When will these libby libs stop treading on us?


I know right? what we really need are hundreds of new duplicate gun laws voted through on pure emotion that will never enforced.

I've also written "Newtown" on my basketball shoes like the Pros do.

Boy do I feel better now!
 
2012-12-28 10:00:12 AM  

The Muthaship: Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.

Really?


Is 20 your definition of a significant improvement? You aim low.
 
2012-12-28 10:00:14 AM  
Good thing they weren't in NY or 9 police officers standing around would have been shot by the cop that returned fire
 
2012-12-28 10:01:54 AM  

Shahab: I hate to be this guy but "MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed."

So he only managed to shoot a couple people before being taken out. Versus 10 times that number in Newton. I don't understand why people act like armed police officers in school is some outrageous thing, we had an armed police officer on campus sometimes at my high school, which was a nice high school in a nice area. That guy from meet the press apparantly has his kids in a school with a security staff of 11.

I think it doesn't fit gun control advocate's message so they try and dismiss it out of hand. I don't own any guns, nor own stock in companies that make them, this isn't an agenda talking, just common sense.


When you get shot with your own farking gun, it fits gun control advocates message perfectly. I'm not a gun control advocate, I think people should be able to get whatever gun they frickin want (with the proviso that a periodic mental health check would be necessary for semi or full auto weapons)... but this, this fits their message perfectly, and this is precisely why so many jails don't have officers with guns, and why so many police departments require officers to check their guns and thoroughly search their suspects when entering the building.
 
2012-12-28 10:02:24 AM  
Remember when people pointed out that the knife attack in China only caused 22 wounded children, but pro-gun people said it didn't matter because people were going to get killed one way or the other......now we have people pointing out that armed guards might lead to 20 people getting killed instead of 27, therefore it is a reasonable solution.

How about just a tiny little bit of consistency...
 
2012-12-28 10:03:09 AM  

KIA: Coco LaFemme: KIA: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown? Something like 500+?

About the same number that have died as a result of the flu. Same as always. Did you get your flu shot?

Yup.  Though I'd like to see something empirical that says over 500 people have died of the flu in the last three weeks.

Last summer, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a report showing that over 20,000 people a year die in the U.S. as a result of influenza. About 90% of those people are over age 65, even though people over 65 make up only about 15% of the population.

See here: http://www.usmedicine.com/compendium/with-90-of-us-influenza-deaths-in -elderly-new-high-dose-vaccine-seeks-lower-mortality-morbidity-rates.h tml

CDC reported firearm homicides from 2009 as 11,493. Verify here http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Homicide is ranked #15 on the causes of death chart, far below heart disease, diabetes, influenza, septicemia, cirrhosis, and hypertension. Heck, it's lower than Parkinson's disease. Verify: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf
Heart disease and cancer caused 47.9% of the deaths all by themselves. Homicide itself was down 6.8% from 2008. Id.

By the way, the vast majority of firearms homicides are committed by people with prior criminal records. In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996. Other sources suggest that as much as 90% of all firearms offenses are committed by people with prior criminal convictions.


The thing is, everyone agrees we should work to end heart disease, diabetes, influenza, septicemia, cirrhosis, and hypertension. We throw money and research at those things. But apparently a lot of people think we should just let the firearm deaths keep on as they are.
 
2012-12-28 10:03:16 AM  
Well, thanks to guns, that is one criminal who will never be brought to justice. Whatever crime he originally committed, we will never know if he was guilty or not, who else was involved, or anything, really. If this was suicide by cop, then who was he protecting by dying? Thanks to guns, instead of, say, pepper spray or tasers, we are left with even larger mysteries and nothing but injustices all round, for which there will be no retributive justice or restorative justice.
 
2012-12-28 10:05:39 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: the families of the dead understand that their loved ones died for the noble cause of letting rednecks get drunk


getting drunk costs us 100k lives per year, and thats not including the molestations and rapes, beatings and abuses...etc.

Alchohol wasn't even designed to kill people like firearms were and there are less firearm fatalities per year than alchohol.
 
2012-12-28 10:05:39 AM  

Coco LaFemme: Kit Fister: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

How many people have died since Newtown as a result of Murder? more than 500+. How many have died since Newton due to cancer caused by cigarettes? How many by auto accidents and drunk drivers?

Now how many of those 500+ have been suicides?

Your crass statements about the patheticness are misleading and eggregiously stupid.

So is your spelling. Anyway, this thread isn't about people dying of cancer, or people dying in auto accidents either with or without the aid of a drunk driver. This is yet another thread about yet another moron who decided to take his gun and play bang bang bang out in public. I'm not arguing that before Sandy Hook this never happened, what I'm saying is that since Sandy Hook, it seems like it's happened more frequently than usual. Maybe people are more hyper-aware of this stuff now, I don't know.

I just found it pathetic that yet again, some moron decided to go play bang bang bang with his toy.


I agree with you, but we have little detail on the situation. For all we know, it was a subject of arrest who was attempting escape.
 
2012-12-28 10:05:44 AM  

Infernalist: Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.

Sounds to me like he has...sorry...had a bit of history of violent behavior. Anyone that is willing to shoot a cop is more than willing to shoot the likes of you while you're in the process of asking him if he would like a hug.

Infernalist: I'm saying he shouldn't have had to have died because some farking retard of a cop left his gun unsecured.

Where in the article did it say that a cop's firearm was unsecured?

Yes, I'll wait.

So, if wasn't unsecured, how did he manage to get it? Did he blink his eyes like I Dream of Jeanie and poof it into his hands?

Think before you post.

And you're assuming the guy was in his right head.

Regardless, this death is entirely the retarded cop's fault for not maintaining control of his handgun. But, naturally, nothing will come of that incompetence.


Wow, that is some weapons grade derp right there.
 
2012-12-28 10:05:50 AM  

kyrg: I know right? what we really need are hundreds of new duplicate gun laws voted through on pure emotion that will never enforced.


What we need is a global, bipartisan solution that puts everything on the table- gun control, mental health, school security, etc.  That will never happen because the gun nuts and all their wealthy backers won't budge an inch and their stooges in Congress will block everything for fear of getting primaried by an NRA-funded extremist..
 
2012-12-28 10:05:58 AM  

Bontesla: You aim low.


I think you are looking at it completely wrong. Saving one life is a significant improvement, regardless of how many were lost on a given occasion. There are bad/crazy people out there. That is unfortunate, but the lengths you (and a scary number of others in this thread) are willing to go in what would be a futile attempt to prevent the bad/crazy people from doing the evil things they do sacrifices the freedom of the vast majority of people who are not bad/crazy.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

We used to hear that quote a lot on Fark when the Patriot Act was passing. I wonder where it went......
 
2012-12-28 10:06:29 AM  

Bontesla: Kit Fister: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

How many people have died since Newtown as a result of Murder? more than 500+. How many have died since Newton due to cancer caused by cigarettes? How many by auto accidents and drunk drivers?

Now how many of those 500+ have been suicides?

Your crass statements about the patheticness are misleading and eggregiously stupid.

You're understanding of nuance is limited. Low-effort thinker? Poor kit.


Well, if you'd like to show me where NUANCE is used here, and why the nuance of a gun being used is preferable to any other means of death...
 
2012-12-28 10:08:19 AM  
Anyone tally up the trollerific gun thread greenlights in the past few weeks? It's a bit tiring, but the derp the gun grabbers are spewing is getting ludicrous so I'm OK with it.

/they'll reach plaid by February
 
2012-12-28 10:08:56 AM  

dittybopper: Nana's Vibrator: I bet the air really smelled of sulphur

I doubt it. That's a feature of black powder, not smokeless powder.

/Loves the smell of "The Devil's Flatulence".


Thus, the new name for New Jersey was born!
 
2012-12-28 10:09:24 AM  

ghare: Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.

Cops are civilians?


Cops are civilians. This is what seperates us from a police state.
 
2012-12-28 10:10:22 AM  

The Muthaship: Saving one life is a significant improvement,


You forgot to include the word innocent, none gun stealing, none cop shooting life. Otherwise some people on this thread will say its a fallacy or some BS.
 
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