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(Fox News)   Three shot, one injured inside New Jersey Police station. If only the police had been armed, this would never have happened   ( foxnews.com) divider line
    More: News, New Jersey, police stations, stairwell  
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12603 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Dec 2012 at 9:04 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



555 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2012-12-28 08:43:29 AM  
They obviously need Paul Newman in the police station.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-28 08:56:25 AM  
The uprising against tearrany has begun!
 
2012-12-28 08:56:43 AM  
Three people were shot, but only one was injured?
 
2012-12-28 09:01:52 AM  

propasaurus: Three people were shot, but only one was injured?


Hmm...  Maybe two were wearing their vests?
 
2012-12-28 09:05:56 AM  
Days since last mass shooting: 0
 
2012-12-28 09:06:30 AM  
I'll bet it was one day before one of the cop's retirement, too. Those guys should know better than to show up on their last day.
 
2012-12-28 09:06:57 AM  
Wayne LaPierre has the solution to this problem: Place armed teachers inside every police station.
 
2012-12-28 09:07:32 AM  
That does it. We need to give police officers guns. Then everyone would be too scared to shoot them.
 
2012-12-28 09:07:49 AM  
Those cops obviously needed more guns.
 
2012-12-28 09:08:33 AM  
This happened because they've taken God out of the police stations.
 
2012-12-28 09:09:04 AM  

Fissile: Wayne LaPierre has the solution to this problem: Place armed teachers inside every police station.


+1 hahahahaha
 
2012-12-28 09:09:05 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I'll bet it was one day before one of the cop's retirement, too. Those guys should know better than to show up on their last day.


Actually, he was shot on the last day before they were going to seal him into the bulletproof bunker, which is now SOP on the day before they retire...
 
2012-12-28 09:09:20 AM  
What the cops needed were assault rifles. Much more scary.
 
2012-12-28 09:09:30 AM  
I've been saying it for years.  Every police officer should be issued a rocket-propelled grenade launcher and claymores.  When will these libby libs stop treading on us?
 
2012-12-28 09:09:44 AM  

Oysterman: That does it. We need to give police officers guns. Then everyone would be too scared to shoot them.


From the article, it sounds like one of the cops should have kept better control of his own weapon.
 
2012-12-28 09:09:52 AM  
Actually, they did subby:

Three New Jersey police officers were reportedly wounded during a shooting inside the Gloucester Township Police station.
MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed.


Initial report is that 3 are wounded, and the shooter was shot and killed.

Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.
 
2012-12-28 09:09:52 AM  
Your probably pissed the shooter didn't gun down some kids before his suicide by cop. Oh well, maybe you'll get your wish tomorrow.
 
2012-12-28 09:09:52 AM  
Maybe the shooter was committing suicide-by-cop?
 
2012-12-28 09:09:55 AM  
The police need to stop training inmates on how to use assault rifles?
 
2012-12-28 09:10:09 AM  
Give the cops more guns, and take away their video games.
 
2012-12-28 09:10:43 AM  
He was just trying to get his wanted level up to six stars.
 
2012-12-28 09:10:51 AM  
The shooter took a cop's gun. Nobody would be able to get a gun from a teacher.
 
2012-12-28 09:10:56 AM  
This is why one officer needs to be designated as the office popper. Every half hour he squeezes off a few rounds into the ceiling below a bunch of TempurPedic mattresses. Honestly, do you guys think that criminals are going to shoot up a building that has shots being fired several times a day? I think not.
 
2012-12-28 09:11:09 AM  

phaseolus: Maybe the shooter was committing suicide-by-cop?


quite probable
 
2012-12-28 09:11:12 AM  

Fissile: Wayne LaPierre has the solution to this problem: Place armed teachers inside every police station.


Yeah! Then maybe cops would finally LEARN something.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:11:13 AM  
Wow - so these are the guys you think have the ability to protect every citizen from criminals? These are the government agents you think can bring about peace while every other law abiding citizen is disarmed?
 
2012-12-28 09:11:14 AM  
I thought all you had to do was show the perp that you had a gun and they would run away? That worked 2 million times last year!

Or not. 2 million is five times the number of violent crimes that occurred in the USA last year. If that was what the CC folks stopped, then there must have been 4-6 million violent crimes that were not reported.
 
2012-12-28 09:11:26 AM  
If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.
 
2012-12-28 09:12:03 AM  

kombat_unit: Your probably pissed the shooter didn't gun down some kids before his suicide by cop. Oh well, maybe you'll get your wish tomorrow.


No, but I am pissed that people don't know the difference between "your" and "you're".
 
2012-12-28 09:12:11 AM  
I was gonna make a crack about the NRA blaming Grand Theft Auto for this, and how their should be vets walking the halls with guns to prevent these things...but meh, it's Friday...gonna go grab a breakfast taco instead.
 
2012-12-28 09:12:48 AM  

dittybopper: Actually, they did subby:

Three New Jersey police officers were reportedly wounded during a shooting inside the Gloucester Township Police station.
MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed.

Initial report is that 3 are wounded, and the shooter was shot and killed.

Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.


This. Three shot is a lot different than 26 dead. Hint: It's more difficult to shoot accurately when someone is shooting back at you.
 
2012-12-28 09:13:03 AM  
Only 3? hmmmm and why didn't they just kill every polioce officer in the building?? oh the shooter was shot and killed..... nice try Farker

images.sodahead.com
 
2012-12-28 09:13:15 AM  

dittybopper: Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.


Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around made the attack possible.
 
2012-12-28 09:13:25 AM  

Nem Wan: The shooter took a cop's gun. Nobody would be able to get a gun from a teacher.


schmoesknow.com
What an average teacher might look like
 
2012-12-28 09:13:58 AM  

KIA: Wow - so these are the guys you think have the ability to protect every citizen from criminals? These are the government agents you think can bring about peace while every other law abiding citizen is disarmed?


Naw, we'd rather depend on the untrained law abiding citizen. Like the one who got killed here. Lets see:

Untrained civilians: 1 dead
Trained Police: One shot. Two with boo boos.

/check the stats
 
2012-12-28 09:14:13 AM  

propasaurus: Three people were shot, but only one was injured?


2 were killed but they're listed as resulting from allergic reaction (to small metallic objects)

//new nra excuse
 
2012-12-28 09:14:30 AM  
No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.
 
2012-12-28 09:15:01 AM  
A gun isn't a force field.
 
2012-12-28 09:16:18 AM  
Are you all retarded?

"Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident when a struggle with officers ensued at around 5:30 a.m. The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work.
 
2012-12-28 09:16:22 AM  

BizarreMan: If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.


FTFA:  The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said.

As mentioned above, I'm sure teachers would be able to protect their firearms much better than trained law enforcement personnel.
 
2012-12-28 09:16:32 AM  
It's not that they weren't armed, it's because they took prayer away from police stations.
 
2012-12-28 09:16:43 AM  

Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.


It's cute how grown people still use terms like 'good guys' and 'bad guys' and they're totally serious in their usage, too.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:17:15 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: KIA: Wow - so these are the guys you think have the ability to protect every citizen from criminals? These are the government agents you think can bring about peace while every other law abiding citizen is disarmed?

Naw, we'd rather depend on the untrained law abiding citizen. Like the one who got killed here. Lets see:

Untrained civilians: 1 dead
Trained Police: One shot. Two with boo boos.

/check the stats


Actually, the police were wearing body armor which Feinstein is still trying to make illegal for civilians. One got hit below the body armor. It is unclear which one was careless enough to let a perp swipe their gun and how a perp who should have been in handcuffs managed to do that anyway.
 
2012-12-28 09:17:45 AM  
Two things:

a) I thought the knowledge of guns would dissuade people from attacking...where is that stupid f*cking Facebook post with the sign that says "if this sign was in front of the school, would the attack have happened"?
2) Yes, police officers that are trained and highly regulated were able to take down this criminal
d) The pro gun nitwits (specifically the people that have gone nutso the past couple weeks) seem to forget the above when making their new arguments today
 
2012-12-28 09:17:59 AM  

Schroedinger's Glory Hole: This is why one officer needs to be designated as the office popper. Every half hour he squeezes off a few rounds into the ceiling below a bunch of TempurPedic mattresses. Honestly, do you guys think that criminals are going to shoot up a building that has shots being fired several times a day? I think not.


t3.gstatic.com

Not amused.
 
2012-12-28 09:18:25 AM  

dittybopper: Initial report is that 3 are wounded, and the shooter was shot and killed.

Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.


Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.


Yep. But we can't let that get in the way of a good derpfest!
 
2012-12-28 09:18:32 AM  

BizarreMan: If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.


This is funny and true
 
2012-12-28 09:18:44 AM  

natazha: I thought all you had to do was show the perp that you had a gun and they would run away? That worked 2 million times last year!

Or not. 2 million is five times the number of violent crimes that occurred in the USA last year. If that was what the CC folks stopped, then there must have been 4-6 million violent crimes that were not reported.


Ummm... no. Don't know where those numbers came from, I'm just commenting on the (il)logic of your statement. If someone stopped a violent crime before it was committed, then there was - by definition - no violent crime committed to be reported.

/Logikal thot, how duz it wurk?
 
2012-12-28 09:19:00 AM  
I think the headline summed it up, and generally speaking, I agree. However. If you've ever been in a police station, you may notice that once an officer enters the building, they have to check their firearm at the front desk. In other words, most of the people in the building, in fact, are not armed. Only select individuals, like detectives, are allowed to carry in the building.

I'm speaking of this from the one time that I got arrested, and was rather surprised to see that routine as I was being shuffled into the station.

It was a mistake in a traffic violation. Sorry for the letdown in terms of why I got arrested to start with. It still sucked, though.
 
2012-12-28 09:19:09 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I'll bet it was one day before one of the cop's retirement, too. Those guys should know better than to show up on their last day.


They're getting too old for this shiat
 
2012-12-28 09:19:14 AM  

Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.


Cops are civilians?
 
2012-12-28 09:19:59 AM  

Vodka Zombie: propasaurus: Three people were shot, but only one was injured?

Hmm...  Maybe two were wearing their vests?


Now it's "too soon" once again.
 
2012-12-28 09:20:06 AM  

maggoo: dittybopper: Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.

Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around made the attack possible.


Damn straight. If cops didn't have guns this would never have happened.

/If it saves just one life...
 
2012-12-28 09:20:32 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: dittybopper: Initial report is that 3 are wounded, and the shooter was shot and killed.

Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.

Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.

Yep. But we can't let that get in the way of a good derpfest!


Kiriyama9000: Are you all retarded?

"Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident when a struggle with officers ensued at around 5:30 a.m. The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work.


Funny, the way I see it working is the guy gets restrained and charged with trying to escape. Of course, in my view of things, the cops would have been armed with non-lethal weapons and no one would have died and most likely, the only guy to get hurt would have been the retard being arrested.

But, hey, what do I know? I'm only one guy.
 
2012-12-28 09:21:07 AM  

dittybopper: Actually, they did subby:

Three New Jersey police officers were reportedly wounded during a shooting inside the Gloucester Township Police station.
MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed.

Initial report is that 3 are wounded, and the shooter was shot and killed.

Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.


The entire event demonstrates armed people do not prevent mass shootings. They're responders.
 
2012-12-28 09:21:08 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: natazha: I thought all you had to do was show the perp that you had a gun and they would run away? That worked 2 million times last year!

Or not. 2 million is five times the number of violent crimes that occurred in the USA last year. If that was what the CC folks stopped, then there must have been 4-6 million violent crimes that were not reported.

Ummm... no. Don't know where those numbers came from, I'm just commenting on the (il)logic of your statement. If someone stopped a violent crime before it was committed, then there was - by definition - no violent crime committed to be reported.

/Logikal thot, how duz it wurk?


That's similar to the often repeated "thought" that only criminals commit crimes with firearms.
 
2012-12-28 09:21:17 AM  

Kiriyama9000: Are you all retarded?

"Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident when a struggle with officers ensued at around 5:30 a.m. The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work.


THIS!!! The fark arm-chair anti gun task force is getting derpier by the moment. Subby, your headline is shiatty, inaccurate, and not even a good troll.
 
2012-12-28 09:21:34 AM  
s1.ibtimes.com

"What we need doing in this country is start training police on the use of firearms and then putting armed police inside police stations!"
 
2012-12-28 09:21:47 AM  

dittybopper: Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.


Dancin_In_Anson: Yep. But we can't let that get in the way of a good derpfest!


Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.


At which point in the past few weeks has any argument been made to keep guns out of the hands of police officers?

You know, continuing to harp on events where trained police officers stopped a shooting doesn't further the argument that you are intending to make. I mean, assuming you aren't just making silly comments to further some twisted agenda because reasonable discussion about a serious problem is beyond your pay grade.

Just think, if the police officers DIDN'T have guns, the person in custody wouldn't have been able to steal a weapon and shoot three people.
 
2012-12-28 09:21:48 AM  

Infernalist: Funny, the way I see it working is the guy gets restrained and charged with trying to escape.


That is funny!
 
2012-12-28 09:21:50 AM  
F*ck, I know a Jersey cop.

Wait this place is way South of him.

Hope all the officers recover fully.
 
2012-12-28 09:21:53 AM  

KIA: Actually, the police were wearing body armor which Feinstein is still trying to make illegal for civilians.


Yeah, think of how much fairer it would have been if the perp had had body armor as well.
 
2012-12-28 09:22:01 AM  

Chinchillazilla: Days since last mass shooting: 0


Your definition of "mass" confuses me.


/there is gang related gun violence about... every damn day.
//but if its a bunch of white people getting shot, god help us.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:22:06 AM  

Infernalist: Of course, in my view of things, the cops would have been armed with non-lethal weapons and no one would have died


Yes, however there is no evidence of any kind that water-pistols are effective in law enforcement or that they have any effect upon crime rates.
 
2012-12-28 09:23:08 AM  

PaulRB: propasaurus: Three people were shot, but only one was injured?

2 were killed but they're listed as resulting from allergic reaction (to small metallic objects)

//new nra excuse


www.webelements.com
 
2012-12-28 09:23:21 AM  

Slappajo: dittybopper: Actually, they did subby:

Three New Jersey police officers were reportedly wounded during a shooting inside the Gloucester Township Police station.
MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed.

Initial report is that 3 are wounded, and the shooter was shot and killed.

Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.

This. Three shot is a lot different than 26 dead. Hint: It's more difficult to shoot accurately when someone is shooting back at you.


You're hint is why arming citizens isn't a good defense against mass shooters. It's a great point to buttress gun control.
 
2012-12-28 09:23:25 AM  
Certainly doesn't help that the media keeps making all of these shooters into celebs.
 
2012-12-28 09:24:06 AM  

Kiriyama9000: The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work


Really?

I am pretty sure whn the police have somebody in custody they, as a rule, shouldn't be able to take police officers weapon from them.
 
2012-12-28 09:24:10 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: Funny, the way I see it working is the guy gets restrained and charged with trying to escape.

That is funny!


I know, right? It's always funny until it happens to someone you personally give a shiat about.

Another example of the primary lesson: Do NOT call the cops unless your life is in danger because if you do, your life may well end when they get involved.
 
2012-12-28 09:24:25 AM  
MORE GUNS!

Love the headline subby :)
 
2012-12-28 09:24:33 AM  
Does anyone know the status of the shooter's Man Card?

I'm asking for a friend.
 
2012-12-28 09:24:46 AM  
How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.
 
2012-12-28 09:25:06 AM  

TheTrashcanMan: Certainly doesn't help that the media keeps making all of these shooters into celebs.


I think if you see a shooter and think of him as a "celeb" that's kind of on you, man.
 
2012-12-28 09:25:35 AM  

KIA: Infernalist: Of course, in my view of things, the cops would have been armed with non-lethal weapons and no one would have died

Yes, however there is no evidence of any kind that water-pistols are effective in law enforcement or that they have any effect upon crime rates.


I was thinking more along the lines of tasers and industrial strength pepper spray, billy clubs and other methods of non-lethal weaponry.

But, you knew that.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:26:05 AM  

Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown? Something like 500+?


About the same number that have died as a result of the flu. Same as always. Did you get your flu shot?
 
2012-12-28 09:26:45 AM  
The Herp-A-Derp anti-gunners are out in force this morning.

The still havent figured out bad people will still do bad things. Cute.
 
2012-12-28 09:26:59 AM  
Did the suspect aquire his own weapon that the cops missed in a search or did he aquire the cops weapon because his hands were cuffed in front of his body.

I thought it was the weapon owners fault when a crime is committed with their firearm? Is the prosecutor filing charges against the weapons owner?
 
2012-12-28 09:27:14 AM  

EbolaNYC: A gun isn't a force field.


A gun endows a Sphere of Protection +3 when equipped.
 
2012-12-28 09:27:34 AM  

Fissile: Wayne LaPierre has the solution to this problem: Place armed teachers inside every police station.


But what happens if a nutjob drives an armored Zamboni into the station??? We have to make sure all teachers and all police have an armored Zamboni parked next to their desks. Otherwise, bedlam will rule!
 
2012-12-28 09:27:53 AM  

propasaurus: Three people were shot, but only one was injured?


==============

It's called "cop math". It's like when they find a little baggie of stems and seeds on a 19 year old pizza-face and they declare a "major" drug bust "with a street value of $1.2 million".

The shooting inside this cop station means all the cops at this station have just won the cop lottery. Every one will now declare an injury.....flying "shrapnel", loss of hearing, stress, etc.....and retire on a 100% disability pension that will pay six figures, and include a Cadillac health plan. The week after they "retire" they get another municipal/county job that pays at least six figures and the hiring authority will say, "It was such a bargain finding this guy because we don't need to pay his health care!"
 
2012-12-28 09:28:07 AM  

Bontesla: Slappajo: dittybopper: Actually, they did subby:

Three New Jersey police officers were reportedly wounded during a shooting inside the Gloucester Township Police station.
MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed.

Initial report is that 3 are wounded, and the shooter was shot and killed.

Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.

This. Three shot is a lot different than 26 dead. Hint: It's more difficult to shoot accurately when someone is shooting back at you.

You're hint is why arming citizens isn't a good defense against mass shooters. It's a great point to buttress gun control.


*your hint
goddamitsomuch
 
2012-12-28 09:28:19 AM  
/grabs popcorn
//whiskey too
 
2012-12-28 09:28:26 AM  

Infernalist: I know, right? It's always funny until it happens to someone you personally give a shiat about.


I don't give a shiat about a criminal who went for a cop's gun and lost.
 
2012-12-28 09:28:39 AM  

Giltric: Did the suspect aquire his own weapon that the cops missed in a search or did he aquire the cops weapon because his hands were cuffed in front of his body.

I thought it was the weapon owners fault when a crime is committed with their firearm? Is the prosecutor filing charges against the weapons owner?


Depends on the situation, I think. If he was cuffed in front and managed to grab an unsecured gun from deputy derper, then yeah, that cop is likely looking at a lengthy paid vacation with outcome unknown.

The rules are different for cops. I thought everyone knew this by now.
 
2012-12-28 09:28:53 AM  
media.comicvine.com
for questioning
 
2012-12-28 09:29:00 AM  

Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.


Sad thing is this stuff has got to take its toll on the cops' well-being, through no fault of their own. Their job is harrowing enough without this shiat.
 
2012-12-28 09:29:01 AM  

imontheinternet: Nem Wan: The shooter took a cop's gun. Nobody would be able to get a gun from a teacher.


What an average teacher might look like


He's a cop, you idiot.
 
2012-12-28 09:29:48 AM  

LasersHurt: TheTrashcanMan: Certainly doesn't help that the media keeps making all of these shooters into celebs.

I think if you see a shooter and think of him as a "celeb" that's kind of on you, man.


Ha. Well said
 
2012-12-28 09:30:28 AM  

imontheinternet: BizarreMan: If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.

FTFA:  The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said.

As mentioned above, I'm sure teachers would be able to protect their firearms much better than trained law enforcement personnel.

The talk of giving teachers guns is silly. Having said that, I went to a high school that had two armed police officers on duty at all times. If someone did come in with a gun, they'd have to deal with an armed response. Even if somehow both officers failed to bring down an assailant, isn't that still better than no response at all?

Not once in my four years in high school did I feel encroached by having officers around, nor did I ever feel that I was in a prison. If I were an elementary school student, I probably thought it would have been awesome to have an officer around. Didn't some of us aspire to be a cop some day at one point or another? Middle school students probably wouldn't care much -- we were all little asses back then.

Put an officer at every school. Give them an office. They are trained and have sworn an oath. Will this be perfect? No. Will this be cheap? No. Will more children be better protected than they are now? YES.

You cannot find and prevent every crazy or mentally sick person from doing crazy things. It is IMPOSSIBLE to predict crazy and even more IMPOSSIBLE to find every potential weapon for said crazy that could be used and destroy them.

Instead, provide an armed response. The only way to deal with deadly force is unfortunately to respond with deadly force.
 
2012-12-28 09:30:33 AM  

PaulRB: propasaurus: Three people were shot, but only one was injured?

2 were killed but they're listed as resulting from allergic reaction (to small metallic objects)

//new nra excuse


I like this one. Boys lets get the FDA on this. I smell good PR in our future.
www.51allout.co.uk
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:30:38 AM  

Infernalist: other methods of non-lethal weaponry


A) You forgot about Nerf guns. Very intimidating in some of the larger models.

B) Billy-clubs. Right. Why not give them a 18th-century man-catcher? Those were non-lethal and had like a nine-foot range rather than the more limited three-foot range of a billy club.

C) If criminals want habanera sauce, they can generally get it without going to the police for it.

D) Tasers aren't necessarily non-lethal and also aren't necessarily effective.
 
2012-12-28 09:30:59 AM  

LasersHurt: TheTrashcanMan: Certainly doesn't help that the media keeps making all of these shooters into celebs.

I think if you see a shooter and think of him as a "celeb" that's kind of on you, man.


Very rarely do you remember the names of the victims, but you always remember the name of the shooter. It seems in recent events, gun men are trying to "one-up" each other.
 
2012-12-28 09:31:15 AM  

socodog: Kiriyama9000: Are you all retarded?

"Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident when a struggle with officers ensued at around 5:30 a.m. The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work.

THIS!!! The fark arm-chair anti gun task force is getting derpier by the moment. Subby, your headline is shiatty, inaccurate, and not even a good troll.


So if the cops WEREN'T armed, this would have never happened.
 
2012-12-28 09:31:21 AM  

blogs.suntimes.com
WANTED FOR QUESTIONING

 
2012-12-28 09:31:26 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: I know, right? It's always funny until it happens to someone you personally give a shiat about.

I don't give a shiat about a criminal who went for a cop's gun and lost.


I know you don't. You see a nameless, faceless loser who got what he deserved. And I pity you for your lack of comprehension.

You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.

I'm saying he shouldn't have had to have died because some farking retard of a cop left his gun unsecured.
 
2012-12-28 09:32:53 AM  
Maybe the cops need bigger guns, with 25mm exploding rounds.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:33:05 AM  

Infernalist: You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.


Well... Bye.
 
2012-12-28 09:33:16 AM  
did someone armed end it?

/drtfa
 
2012-12-28 09:33:24 AM  

Goodfella: [s1.ibtimes.com image 578x365]

"What we need doing in this country is start training police on the use of firearms and then putting armed police inside police stations!"


You hit the nail on the head sir.
 
2012-12-28 09:33:34 AM  
He won't be back.
 
2012-12-28 09:33:58 AM  
It's time the police step up their game:
www.animereq.com
Leona wouldn't have let this shiat happen.
 
2012-12-28 09:34:00 AM  

KIA: Infernalist: other methods of non-lethal weaponry

A) You forgot about Nerf guns. Very intimidating in some of the larger models.

B) Billy-clubs. Right. Why not give them a 18th-century man-catcher? Those were non-lethal and had like a nine-foot range rather than the more limited three-foot range of a billy club.

C) If criminals want habanera sauce, they can generally get it without going to the police for it.

D) Tasers aren't necessarily non-lethal and also aren't necessarily effective.


Your snark is noted, I'll have to mentally adjust your scores downward as a result.

Your response shows that you have zero comprehension of how 90% of the civilized world deals with criminals. I have to dub thee 'retarded' and move on.
 
2012-12-28 09:34:21 AM  

Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.


b...b...but somebody shot somebody else....and another guy....mass shooting?...newsflash?

:(
 
2012-12-28 09:34:45 AM  
Jesus Derping Christ. Not this shiat again.
 
2012-12-28 09:35:08 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I'll bet it was one day before one of the cop's retirement, too. Those guys should know better than to show up on their last day.


s2.postimage.org

"He was just two days away from retirement - then he took an early retirement."
 
2012-12-28 09:35:47 AM  

Kiriyama9000: If someone did come in with a gun, they'd have to deal with an armed response.


Yes, armed officers will have a chance to take down a shooter before he does the maximum amount of damage.  However, what is more common - school shootings or fights?  If these armed officers are there, will they not be breaking up fights?  When they break up fights, will the students not have an opportunity to take the handgun from the police, just as the man did in this story?  Finally, do you think having guns in schools will make deaths by guns in schools go down or up?
 
2012-12-28 09:35:49 AM  

Goodfella: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I'll bet it was one day before one of the cop's retirement, too. Those guys should know better than to show up on their last day.

They're getting too old for this shiat


*shakes fist*

/I'll be back
 
2012-12-28 09:36:18 AM  

Fissile: Wayne LaPierre has the solution to this problem: Place armed teachers inside every police station.


Winner!
 
2012-12-28 09:36:39 AM  

Kiriyama9000: imontheinternet: BizarreMan: If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.

FTFA:  The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said.

As mentioned above, I'm sure teachers would be able to protect their firearms much better than trained law enforcement personnel.
The talk of giving teachers guns is silly. Having said that, I went to a high school that had two armed police officers on duty at all times. If someone did come in with a gun, they'd have to deal with an armed response. Even if somehow both officers failed to bring down an assailant, isn't that still better than no response at all?

Not once in my four years in high school did I feel encroached by having officers around, nor did I ever feel that I was in a prison. If I were an elementary school student, I probably thought it would have been awesome to have an officer around. Didn't some of us aspire to be a cop some day at one point or another? Middle school students probably wouldn't care much -- we were all little asses back then.

Put an officer at every school. Give them an office. They are trained and have sworn an oath. Will this be perfect? No. Will this be cheap? No. Will more children be better protected than they are now? YES.

You cannot find and prevent every crazy or mentally sick person from doing crazy things. It is IMPOSSIBLE to predict crazy and even more IMPOSSIBLE to find every potential weapon for said crazy that could be used and destroy them.

Instead, provide an armed response. The only way to deal with deadly force is unfortunately to respond with deadly force.


And when the shooter kills the officer first? Perhaps the officer has his back turned or is locking her office to patrol? Or suppose the officer is on the other side of the building? You could unload an entire clip on many guns before the officer arrives.

The fact is you're hiring a RESPONDER and not a preventer. So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.

We need preventative measures.
 
2012-12-28 09:37:13 AM  

PaulRB: propasaurus: Three people were shot, but only one was injured?

2 were killed but they're listed as resulting from allergic reaction (to small metallic objects)

//new nra excuse


I thought the technical term was "High Velocity Lead Poisoning", but I could be wrong.
 
2012-12-28 09:37:25 AM  

imontheinternet: BizarreMan: If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.

FTFA:  The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said.

As mentioned above, I'm sure teachers would be able to protect their firearms much better than trained law enforcement personnel.


I'm sure teachers have to deal with large, angry ,drunk criminal types all the time like cops do.

Apples =/= Oranges.
 
2012-12-28 09:37:31 AM  

Kiriyama9000: The talk of giving teachers guns is silly. Having said that, I went to a high school that had two armed police officers on duty at all times. If someone did come in with a gun, they'd have to deal with an armed response. Even if somehow both officers failed to bring down an assailant, isn't that still better than no response at all?


Well, some could argue that it is the same as no response at all...plus two guards on the funeral pyre, plus two guns and two clips (at least) in the shooter's arsenal.

But aside from that...again, how are we, who vote down simple school levies because our kids don't go to the schools in question, going to pay for the positioning of armed guards? Because with the nearly coast-to-coast downsizing of local and county police forces, there aren't going to be enough police to be in every school and enough to patrol. Like I said, the kid from Die Hard 3 knows the scenario: "It's Christmas! You could steal City Hall!" So the guards are either going to have to be hired by the schools, or the locals are going to have to bring more cops back on payroll. Either way, this costs money; money that, in the past decade at the very least, everyone seems reluctant to give.
 
2012-12-28 09:37:40 AM  

Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.


If you include suicides it would be a bit less than that. No suicides, it would be considerably lower than that.
 
2012-12-28 09:38:08 AM  

liam76: Kiriyama9000: The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work

Really?

I am pretty sure whn the police have somebody in custody they, as a rule, shouldn't be able to take police officers weapon from them.

You're making an assumption that every officer is perfect at their job.
You also fail to realize that the officer needs access to their service weapon.
They can do as much as they can to prevent others from gaining access, but it is still a weapon holstered at their side that they need immediate access to should the need arise. Other officers did this and lives were saved because of it.

Where are you going with your logic?
What should the officers have done prior to this?
Disarm themselves and then move the guy?

They are armed for a reason.
For this very reason.
 
2012-12-28 09:38:10 AM  

Infernalist: You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.


Sounds to me like he has...sorry...had a bit of history of violent behavior. Anyone that is willing to shoot a cop is more than willing to shoot the likes of you while you're in the process of asking him if he would like a hug.

Infernalist: I'm saying he shouldn't have had to have died because some farking retard of a cop left his gun unsecured.


Where in the article did it say that a cop's firearm was unsecured?

Yes, I'll wait.
 
2012-12-28 09:39:06 AM  

Infernalist: Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: I know, right? It's always funny until it happens to someone you personally give a shiat about.

I don't give a shiat about a criminal who went for a cop's gun and lost.

I know you don't. You see a nameless, faceless loser who got what he deserved. And I pity you for your lack of comprehension.

You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.

I'm saying he shouldn't have had to have died because some farking retard of a cop left his gun unsecured.


So you don't believe that this person should have been punished for his decision to take that retard of a cop's gun and start shooting at the other officers in the building? Is this entrapment of some kind in your mind? It's all the fault of the gun again, not the person pulling the trigger?


/the idiocy in this thread is much deeper than the previous gun threads recently.
 
2012-12-28 09:39:21 AM  

Infernalist: Those cops obviously needed more guns.


Additionally they need them to practice with Nintendo Duck Hunt to improve there accuracy, or at least make it available to them inside every Dunkin' and Krispy Kreme donut.
 
2012-12-28 09:40:24 AM  

natazha: I thought all you had to do was show the perp that you had a gun and they would run away? That worked 2 million times last year!

Or not. 2 million is five times the number of violent crimes that occurred in the USA last year. If that was what the CC folks stopped, then there must have been 4-6 million violent crimes that were not reported.


If the perp stops when he sees an armed citizen then there was no crime to report. Besides you should know by reading FARK that the last thing you do in inviolve the cops unless you have no other choice.
 
2012-12-28 09:40:36 AM  
So, it sounds like the shooter grabbed one of the cops guns.  Well, the solution is obvious, Diane Feinstein needs to sponsor a bill to ban cops from having guns.
 
2012-12-28 09:40:37 AM  

TheTrashcanMan: LasersHurt: TheTrashcanMan: Certainly doesn't help that the media keeps making all of these shooters into celebs.

I think if you see a shooter and think of him as a "celeb" that's kind of on you, man.

Very rarely do you remember the names of the victims, but you always remember the name of the shooter. It seems in recent events, gun men are trying to "one-up" each other.


Maybe, but it's kind of a Catch 22. What do you want to do, ignore the crimes? Not report them? That has a host of other implications that I don't like - Americans are already far to willing to pretend nothing's wrong.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:41:16 AM  

Infernalist: I'll have to mentally adjust your scores downward as a result.


Lol. OK, Simon Cowell, proceed with your mental scoring and see how many farks people don't give.

Infernalist: you have zero comprehension of how 90% of the civilized world deals with criminals


Really. Fifty-nine countries retain the death penalty as reported in 2007.[4] Comparativists study the different ways in which execution is carried out across the world including hanging, shooting, beheading, injection, electrocution, and even stoning.[4] Comparativists find that in many developing countries such as Iran, Indonesia, Belarus, and many others, that violent methods of execution such as hanging beheading, shooting, and stoning are much more common ways of carrying out the death penalty, and in many cases the only ways... In many countries such as Burma a person can be sentenced to prison for merely disagreeing with the government.[

Perhaps it is not I who lacks a comprehension of how other countries "deal with criminals."
 
2012-12-28 09:41:31 AM  
OMG! Quick, ban some guns before it's too late.
Once those guns get a taste of blood, they are UNSTOPPABLE!

huh?

You're telling me someone actually used a gun as a weapon?
From all the recent media reports I was under the assumption that guns killed on their own.

what?

You mean to say that a criminal used a gun to commit a crime?
But don't we already have laws to prevent criminals from having guns?

Better ban some more guns Barocky.
 
2012-12-28 09:41:46 AM  
Easy solution. Get rid of police stations

/my bill is in the mail
 
2012-12-28 09:42:04 AM  

pdee: imontheinternet: BizarreMan: If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.

FTFA:  The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said.

As mentioned above, I'm sure teachers would be able to protect their firearms much better than trained law enforcement personnel.

I'm sure teachers have to deal with large, angry ,drunk criminal types all the time like cops do.

Apples =/= Oranges.


You realize gang members go to school, right?
 
2012-12-28 09:42:08 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.

Sounds to me like he has...sorry...had a bit of history of violent behavior. Anyone that is willing to shoot a cop is more than willing to shoot the likes of you while you're in the process of asking him if he would like a hug.

Infernalist: I'm saying he shouldn't have had to have died because some farking retard of a cop left his gun unsecured.

Where in the article did it say that a cop's firearm was unsecured?

Yes, I'll wait.


So, if wasn't unsecured, how did he manage to get it? Did he blink his eyes like I Dream of Jeanie and poof it into his hands?

Think before you post.

And you're assuming the guy was in his right head.

Regardless, this death is entirely the retarded cop's fault for not maintaining control of his handgun. But, naturally, nothing will come of that incompetence.
 
2012-12-28 09:42:10 AM  

martid4: Additionally they need them to practice with Nintendo Duck Hunt


Jesus Christ, man.  Don't you know that violent video games ARE the farking problem?

What's next?  You want the cops driving around listening to that Run DCM gangsta music or Winger heavy-metals?
 
2012-12-28 09:42:11 AM  

MythDragon: It's time the police step up their game:
[www.animereq.com image 550x412]
Leona wouldn't have let this shiat happen.


I raise you...

www.amongninjas.co.uk
/and it's BIG
 
2012-12-28 09:43:05 AM  

BillCo: So, it sounds like the shooter grabbed one of the cops guns.  Well, the solution is obvious, Diane Feinstein needs to sponsor a bill to ban cops from having guns.


They should be required to secure their weapons with a Slinky.
 
2012-12-28 09:43:14 AM  
And the green light trolling continues.
 
2012-12-28 09:43:19 AM  

Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.


How many people have died since Newtown as a result of Murder? more than 500+. How many have died since Newton due to cancer caused by cigarettes? How many by auto accidents and drunk drivers?

Now how many of those 500+ have been suicides?

Your crass statements about the patheticness are misleading and eggregiously stupid.
 
2012-12-28 09:43:22 AM  

KIA: Infernalist: I'll have to mentally adjust your scores downward as a result.

Lol. OK, Simon Cowell, proceed with your mental scoring and see how many farks people don't give.

Infernalist: you have zero comprehension of how 90% of the civilized world deals with criminals

Really. Fifty-nine countries retain the death penalty as reported in 2007.[4] Comparativists study the different ways in which execution is carried out across the world including hanging, shooting, beheading, injection, electrocution, and even stoning.[4] Comparativists find that in many developing countries such as Iran, Indonesia, Belarus, and many others, that violent methods of execution such as hanging beheading, shooting, and stoning are much more common ways of carrying out the death penalty, and in many cases the only ways... In many countries such as Burma a person can be sentenced to prison for merely disagreeing with the government.[

Perhaps it is not I who lacks a comprehension of how other countries "deal with criminals."


I said 'civilized' world. I'm fairly sure that BURMA is not a country we should be looking up to, son.
 
2012-12-28 09:43:26 AM  

Infernalist: Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: I know, right? It's always funny until it happens to someone you personally give a shiat about.

I don't give a shiat about a criminal who went for a cop's gun and lost.

I know you don't. You see a nameless, faceless loser who got what he deserved. And I pity you for your lack of comprehension.

You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.

I'm saying he shouldn't have had to have died because some farking retard of a cop left his gun unsecured.


Agreed.
 
2012-12-28 09:44:09 AM  
God, guns and Internet Tough Guys. That shall be our legacy.
 
2012-12-28 09:44:29 AM  
The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said.

That sounds like code for "took a gun from the officers".

/They failed to secure their own firearm and people were shot as a result.
/Why are cops still allowed to carry guns?
 
2012-12-28 09:45:19 AM  

rev. dave: Maybe the cops need bigger guns, with 25mm exploding rounds.


The cops were blinded by a cloud of powdered sugar.
 
2012-12-28 09:45:25 AM  
I'm pretty sure nobody ever shot a cop who was carrying a Hello Kitty lunchbox.   Why are we not using those to protect our officers?
 
2012-12-28 09:45:35 AM  

FinFangFark: I was gonna make a crack about the NRA blaming Grand Theft Auto for this, and how their should be vets walking the halls with guns to prevent these things...but meh, it's Friday...gonna go grab a breakfast taco instead.


The end result will also be more poignant than anything that gets dropped in this thread.
 
2012-12-28 09:45:37 AM  

Fissile: propasaurus: Three people were shot, but only one was injured?

==============

It's called "cop math". It's like when they find a little baggie of stems and seeds on a 19 year old pizza-face and they declare a "major" drug bust "with a street value of $1.2 million".

The shooting inside this cop station means all the cops at this station have just won the cop lottery. Every one will now declare an injury.....flying "shrapnel", loss of hearing, stress, etc.....and retire on a 100% disability pension that will pay six figures, and include a Cadillac health plan. The week after they "retire" they get another municipal/county job that pays at least six figures and the hiring authority will say, "It was such a bargain finding this guy because we don't need to pay his health care!"


I just figured the uninjured were black knights.
 
2012-12-28 09:46:14 AM  

Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.


Really?
 
2012-12-28 09:47:07 AM  
They need armed guards inside the police station.
 
2012-12-28 09:48:19 AM  
Uhm, to the cop that had his gun stolen: They make special holsters now to prevent that from happening.

To the cops that attended to him un-cuffed: Next time, try cuffing him until the weapons are secured.

To the cops that got shot: I'm glad it wasn't worse. Hope the cop with the belly wound makes it through to full duty.

To the cops that shot and killed the idiot: Good call. Glad you came out without any fatalities (well, save for the dead idiot).
 
2012-12-28 09:48:35 AM  

KIA: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown? Something like 500+?

About the same number that have died as a result of the flu. Same as always. Did you get your flu shot?


Yup.  Though I'd like to see something empirical that says over 500 people have died of the flu in the last three weeks.
 
2012-12-28 09:49:33 AM  
I wish I could get shot without being injured
 
2012-12-28 09:50:02 AM  

Coco LaFemme: Though I'd like to see something empirical that says over 500 people have died of the flu in the last three weeks.


And that those people were intentionally injected with the flu virus by another person.
 
2012-12-28 09:50:13 AM  
I bet the perp was just in the process of "turning his life around" too.
 
2012-12-28 09:51:01 AM  
Three shot, one injured?

Drtfa
 
2012-12-28 09:51:06 AM  
A shooter tries this type of thing where there are other weapons and he manages only to wound 3 before being taken down.

It's almost as if those evil nasty murderous scary guns that the good guys had stopped a crime and saved innocent lives.
 
2012-12-28 09:51:14 AM  

GanjSmokr: /the idiocy in this thread is much deeper than the previous gun threads recently.


For now we only have the cops' word, I wonder what really happened. Knowing cops I would not be surprised if one of them accidentily shot himself, and not wanting a reprimand they decided to blame it on a likely looking civilian they had in custody for something minor, and then loosed a few shots into the body armor of some other cops to "prove" that they had no choice but to respond with deadly force.
 
2012-12-28 09:51:20 AM  

Bontesla: Kiriyama9000: imontheinternet: BizarreMan: If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.

FTFA:  The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said.

As mentioned above, I'm sure teachers would be able to protect their firearms much better than trained law enforcement personnel.
The talk of giving teachers guns is silly. Having said that, I went to a high school that had two armed police officers on duty at all times. If someone did come in with a gun, they'd have to deal with an armed response. Even if somehow both officers failed to bring down an assailant, isn't that still better than no response at all?

Not once in my four years in high school did I feel encroached by having officers around, nor did I ever feel that I was in a prison. If I were an elementary school student, I probably thought it would have been awesome to have an officer around. Didn't some of us aspire to be a cop some day at one point or another? Middle school students probably wouldn't care much -- we were all little asses back then.

Put an officer at every school. Give them an office. They are trained and have sworn an oath. Will this be perfect? No. Will this be cheap? No. Will more children be better protected than they are now? YES.

You cannot find and prevent every crazy or mentally sick person from doing crazy things. It is IMPOSSIBLE to predict crazy and even more IMPOSSIBLE to find every potential weapon for said crazy that could be used and destroy them.

Instead, provide an armed response. The only way to deal with deadly force is unfortunately to respond with deadly force.

And when the shooter kills the officer first? Perhaps the officer has his back turned or is locking her office to patrol? Or suppose the officer is on the other side of the building? You could unload an entire clip on many guns before the officer arrives.

The fact is you're hiring a RESPONDER and not a preventer. So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead ...

That is absurd and sickening logic.
I guess those 7 lives wouldn't matter to you.

"Oh don't bother. Just let him keep firing away. Don't put an officer or someone else with a gun in there; they might get die or shoot someone accidentally."

Right, so just let the sicko have his way then.
 
2012-12-28 09:51:22 AM  

ghare: Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.

Cops are civilians?


Yes. They aren't military.
 
2012-12-28 09:51:35 AM  
This reminds me of when I was working the front desk at a police station back in 1984.

This guy comes in and says he's looking for a woman, who was at the station making a statement. I tell the guy to cool it in the lounge and wait for her to come out. Don't you know about thirty seconds later that guy rammed his car through the front of the station, crushing me in my booth?

Then he proceeds to come into the station and shoot up the place.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:51:56 AM  

Infernalist: I said 'civilized' world. I'm fairly sure that BURMA is not a country we should be looking up to, son.


Even more hysterical. So you only want to include white folks in your sophisticated analysis of "the way things should work" instead of all of those brown folks who now compose more than 70% of the world.

Do tell me, son, how effective England and Australia have been at protecting said white folks from assault, robbery, daytime burglary, rape, and so on. Wait, before you answer, at least read one scholarly work published well before the Newtown tragedy. Try this one here:

http://www.joyceleemalcolm.com/books/guns_and_violence

On the extremely high likelihood that you're not going to bother to read up on any fact-based analysis, I'll summarize: disarming the law-abiding citizens did nothing other than empower the criminals who now basically do whatever they want.
 
2012-12-28 09:52:13 AM  
If only someone could explain why only 3 people were shot... hmm, it's a little hard....
 
2012-12-28 09:52:33 AM  

Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.


If you're one of the seven, it's pretty significant.
 
2012-12-28 09:52:39 AM  
I bet the air really smelled of sulphur
 
2012-12-28 09:52:49 AM  

GanjSmokr: Infernalist: Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: I know, right? It's always funny until it happens to someone you personally give a shiat about.

I don't give a shiat about a criminal who went for a cop's gun and lost.

I know you don't. You see a nameless, faceless loser who got what he deserved. And I pity you for your lack of comprehension.

You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.

I'm saying he shouldn't have had to have died because some farking retard of a cop left his gun unsecured.

So you don't believe that this person should have been punished for his decision to take that retard of a cop's gun and start shooting at the other officers in the building? Is this entrapment of some kind in your mind? It's all the fault of the gun again, not the person pulling the trigger?


/the idiocy in this thread is much deeper than the previous gun threads recently.


Misbehaving? That's a shooting.
Tell a lie? That's a shooting.

Or wait... Do you use some other forms of punishment? Perhaps non-lethal forms? Because given your post - the you imply only one for exists.
 
2012-12-28 09:52:57 AM  

TheTrashcanMan: Chinchillazilla: Days since last mass shooting: 0

Your definition of "mass" confuses me.


/there is gang related gun violence about... every damn day.
//but if its a bunch of white people getting shot, god help us.


Sorry. How many people have to get shot at once for it to be noteworthy? 26 is definitely enough, 3 is not. Where's the line, so I know in the future?
 
2012-12-28 09:53:03 AM  

Bontesla: The fact is you're hiring a RESPONDER and not a preventer. So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.


Seven lives aren't significant?

Why can't we do both, in hiring responders *AND* preventers?
 
2012-12-28 09:53:16 AM  

bulldg4life: dittybopper: Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.

Dancin_In_Anson: Yep. But we can't let that get in the way of a good derpfest!

Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.

At which point in the past few weeks has any argument been made to keep guns out of the hands of police officers?

You know, continuing to harp on events where trained police officers stopped a shooting doesn't further the argument that you are intending to make. I mean, assuming you aren't just making silly comments to further some twisted agenda because reasonable discussion about a serious problem is beyond your pay grade.

Just think, if the police officers DIDN'T have guns, the person in custody wouldn't have been able to steal a weapon and shoot three people.


Nice one. Self-pwned much?
 
2012-12-28 09:53:27 AM  

Infernalist: So, if wasn't unsecured, how did he manage to get it?


You're right. It must have just been laying there on the table right next to him.
 
2012-12-28 09:53:45 AM  

Kit Fister: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

How many people have died since Newtown as a result of Murder? more than 500+. How many have died since Newton due to cancer caused by cigarettes? How many by auto accidents and drunk drivers?

Now how many of those 500+ have been suicides?

Your crass statements about the patheticness are misleading and eggregiously stupid.


So is your spelling. Anyway, this thread isn't about people dying of cancer, or people dying in auto accidents either with or without the aid of a drunk driver. This is yet another thread about yet another moron who decided to take his gun and play bang bang bang out in public. I'm not arguing that before Sandy Hook this never happened, what I'm saying is that since Sandy Hook, it seems like it's happened more frequently than usual. Maybe people are more hyper-aware of this stuff now, I don't know.

I just found it pathetic that yet again, some moron decided to go play bang bang bang with his toy.
 
2012-12-28 09:53:47 AM  

tbhouston: I wish I could get shot without being injured


Ummm...  You could get a job in porn.
 
2012-12-28 09:53:48 AM  
I hate to be this guy but "MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed."

So he only managed to shoot a couple people before being taken out. Versus 10 times that number in Newton. I don't understand why people act like armed police officers in school is some outrageous thing, we had an armed police officer on campus sometimes at my high school, which was a nice high school in a nice area. That guy from meet the press apparantly has his kids in a school with a security staff of 11.

I think it doesn't fit gun control advocate's message so they try and dismiss it out of hand. I don't own any guns, nor own stock in companies that make them, this isn't an agenda talking, just common sense.
 
2012-12-28 09:55:08 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: And the green light trolling continues.


What? Haven't you noticed the reasonable discourse, leading to mutually acceptable proposals regarding gun control and school safety?

Heh. Actually, I noticed most of those guys disappeared days ago...
 
2012-12-28 09:55:32 AM  
"The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

This is great evidence for not arming our school staff and banning some types of guns. In fact, yesterday a woman pushed a man in front of a subway, killing him. Seeing as I don't use the Subway and their only purpose is to commit horrific murders, they should be banned immediately. Any subway riders who disagree are sick, twisted farks who care only for their little toys and have no regard for innocent human lives.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:01 AM  

The Muthaship: Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.

Really?


Hey. What's seven lives worth compared to being able to go out and shoot high-powered weaponry and get drunk for the shiat of it? I'm sure the families of the dead understand that their loved ones died for the noble cause of letting rednecks get drunk and shoot shiat on the weekend.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:09 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: I bet the air really smelled of sulphur


I doubt it. That's a feature of black powder, not smokeless powder.

/Loves the smell of "The Devil's Flatulence".
 
2012-12-28 09:56:13 AM  
this wasn't some random crazy walking into and shooting up a police station.  This was someone already arrested getting loose, grabbing a cops gun and then shooting the guys who brought him in.  Still unfortunate, but doesn't count as a mass shooting.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:19 AM  

People_are_Idiots:

To the cops that got shot: I'm glad it wasn't worse. Hope the cop with the belly wound makes it through to full duty.


I'm interpreting this differently from the way you had intended. Gross.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:24 AM  
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-28 09:56:32 AM  

imontheinternet: pdee: imontheinternet: BizarreMan: If the police station was a weapons free zone this would not have happened.

FTFA:  The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said.

As mentioned above, I'm sure teachers would be able to protect their firearms much better than trained law enforcement personnel.

I'm sure teachers have to deal with large, angry ,drunk criminal types all the time like cops do.

Apples =/= Oranges.

You realize gang members go to school, right?


While Im opposed to arming teachers you do have a point. Perhapse I should change my mind.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:47 AM  

Kit Fister: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

How many people have died since Newtown as a result of Murder? more than 500+. How many have died since Newton due to cancer caused by cigarettes? How many by auto accidents and drunk drivers?

Now how many of those 500+ have been suicides?

Your crass statements about the patheticness are misleading and eggregiously stupid.


You're understanding of nuance is limited. Low-effort thinker? Poor kit.
 
2012-12-28 09:56:48 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Uhm, to the cop that had his gun stolen: They make special holsters now to prevent that from happening.

To the cops that attended to him un-cuffed: Next time, try cuffing him until the weapons are secured.

To the cops that got shot: I'm glad it wasn't worse. Hope the cop with the belly wound makes it through to full duty.

To the cops that shot and killed the idiot: Good call. Glad you came out without any fatalities (well, save for the dead idiot).


We just went to those new double retention holsters, they are nice but if someone knows how they work they could still get your gun. They say police station not jail..here those are two different places so this guy could have been coming to turn himself in on the DV warrant, that happens alot. So he might not even have been in cuffs yet if so, definitely not in the front. I don't know of anyone, outside of the jail, that would cuff in the front.

My thought is this all happened when they went to cuff him. Over powered one officer, got his gun, two responded to help. He was gut shot fighting for the gun.

my .02...
 
2012-12-28 09:57:00 AM  
Left out :

/on my Facebook Feed this morning
 
2012-12-28 09:57:43 AM  

Civil_War2_Time: Nice one. Self-pwned much?


Not really, because it is a stupid argument.

In response to recent shootings, no reasonable person is going to advocate removing guns from police officers. I surely don't see it as a solution and the nitwit in this thread advocating it seems to be the only one even coming close to making the statement.

However, there are countless people blindly making a comment about how having guns stopped the shooter after three wounds...the inverse of that would be no guns in the station causing no wounds at all.

It is a stupid simplistic argument.
 
2012-12-28 09:57:52 AM  

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: "The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

This is great evidence for not arming our school staff and banning some types of guns. In fact, yesterday a woman pushed a man in front of a subway, killing him. Seeing as I don't use the Subway and their only purpose is to commit horrific murders, they should be banned immediately. Any subway riders who disagree are sick, twisted farks who care only for their little toys and have no regard for innocent human lives.


Idiots keep making this argument about cars, trains, pencils, whatever, without a hint of understanding how farking retarded it is.
 
2012-12-28 09:57:54 AM  

Kiriyama9000: Are you all retarded?

"Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident when a struggle with officers ensued at around 5:30 a.m. The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work.


In many stations, cops check their service sidearms as they enter... when bad guys go to try to escape, they neither have guns, nor can they get them from the locked boxes at the entrance... what there is is a wall of cops who are well trained, and one unarmed guy, they force him to the floor, do a better job of restraining him (seems pretty obvious that whenever a criminal gets loose enough to fight, that's not how things are supposed to work), and carry on with their day... nobody gets shot, certainly nobody gets killed, and everyone goes on with their day after a minor scuffle... the guy gets an additional couple counts of battery on a peace officer, and the officer who did a shiat job of restraining the suspect in the first place gets reviewed to see if he violated policy in the course of his failure to control the suspect... everyone goes either home or to jail alive... and that's how things are supposed to work.

/mind boggling that you think a criminal getting a cops gun is how things are supposed to work.
 
2012-12-28 09:58:02 AM  

Bontesla: MisbehavingStealing a cop's gun? That's a shooting.
Tell a lieShooting at cops with that stolen gun? That's a shooting.


FTFY.
Or did you really believe that this particular guy was just "misbehaving"?
 
2012-12-28 09:58:17 AM  
Many police stations have lock boxes at the vestibule of the in-booking area where police lock their weapon before escorting a subject in. I guess this one did not.
 
2012-12-28 09:58:42 AM  

KIA: Actually, the police were wearing body armor which Feinstein is still trying to make illegal for civilians.


citationneeded.jpg
 
KIA
2012-12-28 09:58:55 AM  

Coco LaFemme: KIA: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown? Something like 500+?

About the same number that have died as a result of the flu. Same as always. Did you get your flu shot?

Yup.  Though I'd like to see something empirical that says over 500 people have died of the flu in the last three weeks.


Last summer, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a report showing that over 20,000 people a year die in the U.S. as a result of influenza. About 90% of those people are over age 65, even though people over 65 make up only about 15% of the population.

See here: http://www.usmedicine.com/compendium/with-90-of-us-influenza-deaths-in -elderly-new-high-dose-vaccine-seeks-lower-mortality-morbidity-rates.h tml

CDC reported firearm homicides from 2009 as 11,493. Verify here http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Homicide is ranked #15 on the causes of death chart, far below heart disease, diabetes, influenza, septicemia, cirrhosis, and hypertension. Heck, it's lower than Parkinson's disease. Verify: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf
Heart disease and cancer caused 47.9% of the deaths all by themselves. Homicide itself was down 6.8% from 2008. Id.

By the way, the vast majority of firearms homicides are committed by people with prior criminal records. In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996. Other sources suggest that as much as 90% of all firearms offenses are committed by people with prior criminal convictions.
 
2012-12-28 09:59:08 AM  
Police should not have guns, but they should be mandatory for everyone else.
 
2012-12-28 09:59:10 AM  

Fissile: Wayne LaPierre has the solution to this problem: Place armed teachers inside every police station.


We can't trust teachers around the juvies. We should probably just arm a kindergartener in every station.
 
2012-12-28 09:59:49 AM  

imontheinternet: I've been saying it for years.  Every police officer should be issued a rocket-propelled grenade launcher and claymores.  When will these libby libs stop treading on us?


I know right? what we really need are hundreds of new duplicate gun laws voted through on pure emotion that will never enforced.

I've also written "Newtown" on my basketball shoes like the Pros do.

Boy do I feel better now!
 
2012-12-28 10:00:12 AM  

The Muthaship: Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.

Really?


Is 20 your definition of a significant improvement? You aim low.
 
2012-12-28 10:00:14 AM  
Good thing they weren't in NY or 9 police officers standing around would have been shot by the cop that returned fire
 
2012-12-28 10:01:54 AM  

Shahab: I hate to be this guy but "MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed."

So he only managed to shoot a couple people before being taken out. Versus 10 times that number in Newton. I don't understand why people act like armed police officers in school is some outrageous thing, we had an armed police officer on campus sometimes at my high school, which was a nice high school in a nice area. That guy from meet the press apparantly has his kids in a school with a security staff of 11.

I think it doesn't fit gun control advocate's message so they try and dismiss it out of hand. I don't own any guns, nor own stock in companies that make them, this isn't an agenda talking, just common sense.


When you get shot with your own farking gun, it fits gun control advocates message perfectly. I'm not a gun control advocate, I think people should be able to get whatever gun they frickin want (with the proviso that a periodic mental health check would be necessary for semi or full auto weapons)... but this, this fits their message perfectly, and this is precisely why so many jails don't have officers with guns, and why so many police departments require officers to check their guns and thoroughly search their suspects when entering the building.
 
2012-12-28 10:02:24 AM  
Remember when people pointed out that the knife attack in China only caused 22 wounded children, but pro-gun people said it didn't matter because people were going to get killed one way or the other......now we have people pointing out that armed guards might lead to 20 people getting killed instead of 27, therefore it is a reasonable solution.

How about just a tiny little bit of consistency...
 
2012-12-28 10:03:09 AM  

KIA: Coco LaFemme: KIA: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown? Something like 500+?

About the same number that have died as a result of the flu. Same as always. Did you get your flu shot?

Yup.  Though I'd like to see something empirical that says over 500 people have died of the flu in the last three weeks.

Last summer, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a report showing that over 20,000 people a year die in the U.S. as a result of influenza. About 90% of those people are over age 65, even though people over 65 make up only about 15% of the population.

See here: http://www.usmedicine.com/compendium/with-90-of-us-influenza-deaths-in -elderly-new-high-dose-vaccine-seeks-lower-mortality-morbidity-rates.h tml

CDC reported firearm homicides from 2009 as 11,493. Verify here http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Homicide is ranked #15 on the causes of death chart, far below heart disease, diabetes, influenza, septicemia, cirrhosis, and hypertension. Heck, it's lower than Parkinson's disease. Verify: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf
Heart disease and cancer caused 47.9% of the deaths all by themselves. Homicide itself was down 6.8% from 2008. Id.

By the way, the vast majority of firearms homicides are committed by people with prior criminal records. In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996. Other sources suggest that as much as 90% of all firearms offenses are committed by people with prior criminal convictions.


The thing is, everyone agrees we should work to end heart disease, diabetes, influenza, septicemia, cirrhosis, and hypertension. We throw money and research at those things. But apparently a lot of people think we should just let the firearm deaths keep on as they are.
 
2012-12-28 10:03:16 AM  
Well, thanks to guns, that is one criminal who will never be brought to justice. Whatever crime he originally committed, we will never know if he was guilty or not, who else was involved, or anything, really. If this was suicide by cop, then who was he protecting by dying? Thanks to guns, instead of, say, pepper spray or tasers, we are left with even larger mysteries and nothing but injustices all round, for which there will be no retributive justice or restorative justice.
 
2012-12-28 10:05:39 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: the families of the dead understand that their loved ones died for the noble cause of letting rednecks get drunk


getting drunk costs us 100k lives per year, and thats not including the molestations and rapes, beatings and abuses...etc.

Alchohol wasn't even designed to kill people like firearms were and there are less firearm fatalities per year than alchohol.
 
2012-12-28 10:05:39 AM  

Coco LaFemme: Kit Fister: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

How many people have died since Newtown as a result of Murder? more than 500+. How many have died since Newton due to cancer caused by cigarettes? How many by auto accidents and drunk drivers?

Now how many of those 500+ have been suicides?

Your crass statements about the patheticness are misleading and eggregiously stupid.

So is your spelling. Anyway, this thread isn't about people dying of cancer, or people dying in auto accidents either with or without the aid of a drunk driver. This is yet another thread about yet another moron who decided to take his gun and play bang bang bang out in public. I'm not arguing that before Sandy Hook this never happened, what I'm saying is that since Sandy Hook, it seems like it's happened more frequently than usual. Maybe people are more hyper-aware of this stuff now, I don't know.

I just found it pathetic that yet again, some moron decided to go play bang bang bang with his toy.


I agree with you, but we have little detail on the situation. For all we know, it was a subject of arrest who was attempting escape.
 
2012-12-28 10:05:44 AM  

Infernalist: Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: You don't grasp that this is the last step in what was likely a long line of bad judgement calls and mistakes, judging by what he was hauled in for.

Sounds to me like he has...sorry...had a bit of history of violent behavior. Anyone that is willing to shoot a cop is more than willing to shoot the likes of you while you're in the process of asking him if he would like a hug.

Infernalist: I'm saying he shouldn't have had to have died because some farking retard of a cop left his gun unsecured.

Where in the article did it say that a cop's firearm was unsecured?

Yes, I'll wait.

So, if wasn't unsecured, how did he manage to get it? Did he blink his eyes like I Dream of Jeanie and poof it into his hands?

Think before you post.

And you're assuming the guy was in his right head.

Regardless, this death is entirely the retarded cop's fault for not maintaining control of his handgun. But, naturally, nothing will come of that incompetence.


Wow, that is some weapons grade derp right there.
 
2012-12-28 10:05:50 AM  

kyrg: I know right? what we really need are hundreds of new duplicate gun laws voted through on pure emotion that will never enforced.


What we need is a global, bipartisan solution that puts everything on the table- gun control, mental health, school security, etc.  That will never happen because the gun nuts and all their wealthy backers won't budge an inch and their stooges in Congress will block everything for fear of getting primaried by an NRA-funded extremist..
 
2012-12-28 10:05:58 AM  

Bontesla: You aim low.


I think you are looking at it completely wrong. Saving one life is a significant improvement, regardless of how many were lost on a given occasion. There are bad/crazy people out there. That is unfortunate, but the lengths you (and a scary number of others in this thread) are willing to go in what would be a futile attempt to prevent the bad/crazy people from doing the evil things they do sacrifices the freedom of the vast majority of people who are not bad/crazy.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

We used to hear that quote a lot on Fark when the Patriot Act was passing. I wonder where it went......
 
2012-12-28 10:06:29 AM  

Bontesla: Kit Fister: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown?  Something like 500+?  This is yet another one.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

How many people have died since Newtown as a result of Murder? more than 500+. How many have died since Newton due to cancer caused by cigarettes? How many by auto accidents and drunk drivers?

Now how many of those 500+ have been suicides?

Your crass statements about the patheticness are misleading and eggregiously stupid.

You're understanding of nuance is limited. Low-effort thinker? Poor kit.


Well, if you'd like to show me where NUANCE is used here, and why the nuance of a gun being used is preferable to any other means of death...
 
2012-12-28 10:08:19 AM  
Anyone tally up the trollerific gun thread greenlights in the past few weeks? It's a bit tiring, but the derp the gun grabbers are spewing is getting ludicrous so I'm OK with it.

/they'll reach plaid by February
 
2012-12-28 10:08:56 AM  

dittybopper: Nana's Vibrator: I bet the air really smelled of sulphur

I doubt it. That's a feature of black powder, not smokeless powder.

/Loves the smell of "The Devil's Flatulence".


Thus, the new name for New Jersey was born!
 
2012-12-28 10:09:24 AM  

ghare: Click Click D'oh: No dead good guys, one dead bad guy... seems like it's working as intended.

Cops are civilians?


Cops are civilians. This is what seperates us from a police state.
 
2012-12-28 10:10:22 AM  

The Muthaship: Saving one life is a significant improvement,


You forgot to include the word innocent, none gun stealing, none cop shooting life. Otherwise some people on this thread will say its a fallacy or some BS.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 10:11:04 AM  

Chinchillazilla: The thing is, everyone agrees we should work to end heart disease, diabetes, influenza, septicemia, cirrhosis, and hypertension. We throw money and research at those things.


Close, but a slight miss. After we have already thrown a lot of money and research at these things they are still far higher than firearms homicides.

You also imply that money and research has not been spent on firearms laws and controls. We have some 20,000 firearms laws on the books. Even in the Newtown situation, the shooter tried to buy firearms at three different dealers and was rejected all three times. Our firearms laws are extensive and work when enforced. The rate of firearm homicides at 11,493 with 313 million residents in the US = 0.003671 percent. That's right. Three one-thousandths of one percent of people in the US died from firearms homicides.

Now when you consider that up to 90% of those may have been committed by people with prior criminal records, people who simply are not law-abiding folks, and that it is already illegal for felons to possess guns, you have to ask: is there any legislation short of banning a natural and constitutional right for the law-abiding citizens which can reduce the rate below three one-thousandths of one percent?

So far, nobody has come up with anything realistic in response to that core question.
 
2012-12-28 10:11:49 AM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: People_are_Idiots: Uhm, to the cop that had his gun stolen: They make special holsters now to prevent that from happening.

To the cops that attended to him un-cuffed: Next time, try cuffing him until the weapons are secured.

To the cops that got shot: I'm glad it wasn't worse. Hope the cop with the belly wound makes it through to full duty.

To the cops that shot and killed the idiot: Good call. Glad you came out without any fatalities (well, save for the dead idiot).

We just went to those new double retention holsters, they are nice but if someone knows how they work they could still get your gun. They say police station not jail..here those are two different places so this guy could have been coming to turn himself in on the DV warrant, that happens alot. So he might not even have been in cuffs yet if so, definitely not in the front. I don't know of anyone, outside of the jail, that would cuff in the front.


The nice thing about those though it takes a little bit more thought to get to the gun, something this guy probably didn't have. As far as having him cuffed or not, my thought was in this line: "Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident." Usually if you're under arrest like that from what I've seen, you're already in cuffs (not arguing with you mind you). Most towns I know of have their police station in the jail, so it isn't unusual to have police bringing the perp to the station.


My thought is this all happened when they went to cuff him. Over powered one officer, got his gun, two responded to help. He was gut shot fighting for the gun.

my .02...


BTW, my hat's off to you. :)
 
2012-12-28 10:12:02 AM  

Kiriyama9000: Are you all retarded?

"Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident when a struggle with officers ensued at around 5:30 a.m. The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work.


Don't most police holsters have safeties that require at least two actions to un-holster the weapon?
 
2012-12-28 10:12:42 AM  

Oysterman: That does it. We need to give police officers guns. Then everyone would be too scared to shoot them.


Yeah. It's not like the armed police officers shot and killed the bad guy before he could hurt anyone else. Oh...wait...
 
2012-12-28 10:13:03 AM  

Shahab: I hate to be this guy but "MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed."

So he only managed to shoot a couple people before being taken out. Versus 10 times that number in Newton. I don't understand why people act like armed police officers in school is some outrageous thing, we had an armed police officer on campus sometimes at my high school, which was a nice high school in a nice area. That guy from meet the press apparantly has his kids in a school with a security staff of 11.

I think it doesn't fit gun control advocate's message so they try and dismiss it out of hand. I don't own any guns, nor own stock in companies that make them, this isn't an agenda talking, just common sense.


He may have been killed but I'll bet he is still being shot. Cops are lined up, walking past the corpse and letting off a couple rounds. It could go on for hours.
 
2012-12-28 10:13:33 AM  
Useful gun control solutions: booker
 
2012-12-28 10:14:07 AM  

Bontesla: The Muthaship: Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.

Really?

Is 20 your definition of a significant improvement? You aim low.


Not that I think that having armed guards in every school is a good thing... but isn't this the exact argument used to limit magazine size? That yes people will still die but it will be less somehow with smaller magazines?
 
2012-12-28 10:14:11 AM  

bulldg4life: Civil_War2_Time: Nice one. Self-pwned much?

Not really, because it is a stupid argument.

In response to recent shootings, no reasonable person is going to advocate removing guns from police officers. I surely don't see it as a solution and the nitwit in this thread advocating it seems to be the only one even coming close to making the statement.

However, there are countless people blindly making a comment about how having guns stopped the shooter after three wounds...the inverse of that would be no guns in the station causing no wounds at all.

It is a stupid simplistic argument.


Yes, it IS a stupid simplistic argument.

BUT, this is where the concealed vs. open-view carry situation comes into play.

If the tackled cop had his gun in a holster around his ankle (like my dad's .45 mini), there would likely have been but one person shot...the perp. Although the perp wouldn't have tackled someone trying to get his gun if he didn't know if he even had one on-person (and in a police station).

It's time for cops to stop showing-off their weapons, because they don't need to. Conceal it, and there will be next to no shootings of cops with their own guns...IMO.
 
2012-12-28 10:14:13 AM  
After a few years, I think I finally have Fark figured out..

-Cops are hated
-Guns are bad
-Unions are great
-The U.S. sucks...but Obama is great
-The govt. sucks..but it's ok now because of Obama
-Republicans are evil and responsible for everything from killing old people, to killing the arts and global warming
-Religion is bad, and if you are a Christian especially, you are stupid and deserve scorn and hatred..but Obama being a Christian and mentioning God is a-ok
-Cars are bad..unless they're electric
-The rich are evil
-Obama biatches!


I miss anything?
 
2012-12-28 10:14:24 AM  

tarheel07: Kiriyama9000: Are you all retarded?

"Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident when a struggle with officers ensued at around 5:30 a.m. The suspect "obtained a firearm" during the struggle, police sources said. Officers then returned fire, killing the unidentified suspect."

The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work.

Don't most police holsters have safeties that require at least two actions to un-holster the weapon?


Some do. Some even require three. Unfortunately, some law enforcement holsters, and particularly those used by plainclothes officers generally do not.
 
2012-12-28 10:15:50 AM  

Audaeus: If only someone could explain why only 3 people were shot... hmm, it's a little hard....


you have the strangest boner right now because of the possibility of more injuries?
 
2012-12-28 10:16:21 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Infernalist: So, if wasn't unsecured, how did he manage to get it?

You're right. It must have just been laying there on the table right next to him.


Probably dressed all provocatively... practically begging to be used. If that slutty gun had just kept itself covered up none of this would have happened.
 
2012-12-28 10:16:56 AM  
How long before the TSA's presence is expanded beyond airports?
 
2012-12-28 10:17:22 AM  

Scerpes: Oysterman: That does it. We need to give police officers guns. Then everyone would be too scared to shoot them.

Yeah. It's not like the armed police officers shot and killed the bad guy before he could hurt anyone else. Oh...wait...


But I was told they pick their targets because they have "gun-free" signs outside. Is that not the case?
 
KIA
2012-12-28 10:17:44 AM  

publikenemy: After a few years, I think I finally have Fark figured out..

-Cops are hated
-Guns are bad
-Unions are great
-The U.S. sucks...but Obama is great
-The govt. sucks..but it's ok now because of Obama
-Republicans are evil and responsible for everything from killing old people, to killing the arts and global warming
-Religion is bad, and if you are a Christian especially, you are stupid and deserve scorn and hatred..but Obama being a Christian and mentioning God is a-ok
-Cars are bad..unless they're electric
-The rich are evil
-Obama biatches!


I miss anything?


You could have just summarized: Basement-dwelling dope-smoking pseudo-philosophy rules.

That and we all miss teh bewbies. Anyone else remember massive mammary threads? Weiners too, let's be fair. I suppose Tumblr kind of killed all of that. Oh, well. Maybe we can get a beer thread again.
 
2012-12-28 10:17:47 AM  

socodog: Many police stations have lock boxes at the vestibule of the in-booking area where police lock their weapon before escorting a subject in. I guess this one did not.


I thought that this is how most police stations operated also to keep things like this from happening. With the exception of a few armed officers that don't handle suspects and are there for security.
 
2012-12-28 10:18:06 AM  

Benjamin Orr: Probably dressed all provocatively... practically begging to be used. If that slutty gun had just kept itself covered up none of this would have happened


I know, right?
 
2012-12-28 10:18:58 AM  

Civil_War2_Time: It's time for cops to stop showing-off their weapons, because they don't need to. Conceal it, and there will be next to no shootings of cops with their own guns...IMO.


I don't know if that is true...I mean, a cop on patrol and the only option is an ankle holster? Not sure if that is a solution.

I would say there was obviously a breakdown in securing of weapons and/or the criminal, but I'm not sure if concealed carry for all cops makes sense.
 
2012-12-28 10:19:07 AM  

Civil_War2_Time: Yes, it IS a stupid simplistic argument.

BUT, this is where the concealed vs. open-view carry situation comes into play.

If the tackled cop had his gun in a holster around his ankle (like my dad's .45 mini), there would likely have been but one person shot...the perp. Although the perp wouldn't have tackled someone trying to get his gun if he didn't know if he even had one on-person (and in a police station).

It's time for cops to stop showing-off their weapons, because they don't need to. Conceal it, and there will be next to no shootings of cops with their own guns...IMO.


1. Ankle holsters are horrendous for a primary weapon.

2. I'm sure you've never taken off your jacket in your office.
 
2012-12-28 10:19:28 AM  

Benjamin Orr: Bontesla: The Muthaship: Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.

Really?

Is 20 your definition of a significant improvement? You aim low.

Not that I think that having armed guards in every school is a good thing... but isn't this the exact argument used to limit magazine size? That yes people will still die but it will be less somehow with smaller magazines?


The difference is 10 shots per mag vs. 100. Not 26 vs 20.
 
2012-12-28 10:20:23 AM  

Oh you're right sub-tard... I guess even the police shouldn't have guns!!!!



Using a gun grab by an in custody criminal as your call for gun control.... too many lulz.....
 
2012-12-28 10:20:30 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Scerpes: Oysterman: That does it. We need to give police officers guns. Then everyone would be too scared to shoot them.

Yeah. It's not like the armed police officers shot and killed the bad guy before he could hurt anyone else. Oh...wait...

But I was told they pick their targets because they have "gun-free" signs outside. Is that not the case?


I've never used that line of reasoning. It's quite possible. Of course when you've got an asshole in a police station that wants to leave and the police won't let him, he might try to get a hold of a weapon anyway.
 
2012-12-28 10:21:26 AM  
Shooter killed by the good guys. Problem solved.

/Former LEO
 
2012-12-28 10:21:36 AM  

dittybopper: Actually, they did subby:

Three New Jersey police officers were reportedly wounded during a shooting inside the Gloucester Township Police station.
MyFoxPhilly.com reports that the suspected shooter has been shot and killed.

Initial report is that 3 are wounded, and the shooter was shot and killed.

Seems to me that having a bunch of guns around prevented that from being much worse.


Yeah, about that. The shooter got his weapon from one of the cops during a struggle...
 
2012-12-28 10:21:38 AM  
There is a woman sleeping safely in her bed tonight.
 
2012-12-28 10:22:19 AM  
Taken from a cam at the scene:

img32.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-28 10:22:22 AM  

imontheinternet: Nem Wan: The shooter took a cop's gun. Nobody would be able to get a gun from a teacher.

[schmoesknow.com image 432x256]
What an average teacher might look like


photo.shockya.com
 
2012-12-28 10:22:26 AM  
You know what, honest question here for the "guns are not a part of the problem" crowd. I like facts and numbers and figures and I like to draw conclusions from them. Here's a series of facts I've gleaned from FBI crime stats and Wikipedia tables for other threads since Newtown:

1. The USA is far and away the most heavily armed society in the world. More than 88 guns per 100 citizens. More than 40% of all people in the country between the ages of zero and dead own at least one gun. That last bit isn't "on average", that's actually people who own at least one gun.

2. The OECD member country list is useful for comparing like nations based on their development. Among OECD member countries, only Mexico has more gun crimes per capita than the USA

3. 37/50 states in the USA have "will-issue" laws on the books for concealed carry permits. 2 states are "constitutional carry" and do not even require a permit. One state is technically "shall issue" but operates as "will issue". That means in 40 out 50 states the only people who can't get a concealed carry permit are felons and people who are known to be mentally unstable (which is a small number of people since states are not required to provide that information to the FBI anymore).

4. Only 7 of 50 states ranked 50 (out of 100) or above on Brady Campaign's gun control scorecard. 5 more ranked 25 or above leaving 38 of 50 states scoring 24 or less with the majority scoring between 0 and 10.

How can you, in a country more armed than any other nation, with a vast majority of states allowing unchallenged concealed carry for non-felons, and a vast majority of states having weak or no gun control laws on the books reconcile the argument that the problem is we need more armed citizens when we also lead all developed nations (except the one embroiled in a massive drug war) in gun violence and are way up the list on all countries combined?

I literally cannot even begin to comprehend the argument here. We're already more armed than any other country on earth, with the vast majority of states having extremely loose controls on concealed carry and what you can buy.... yet we lead the developed world in gun violence and the argument is there aren't enough people with guns?

You literally can't own more guns per capita than any other country on earth no matter how many more you add. If we're already the most heavily armed populace on the planet, but also the 10th most dangerous for gun violence.... how is more guns even remotely a justifiable position based on any actual data?
 
2012-12-28 10:22:51 AM  

ongbok: socodog: Many police stations have lock boxes at the vestibule of the in-booking area where police lock their weapon before escorting a subject in. I guess this one did not.

I thought that this is how most police stations operated also to keep things like this from happening. With the exception of a few armed officers that don't handle suspects and are there for security.


I've been in a ton of police stations and none of them ever required officers to secure weapons. The only place they usually have to do that is in a custody area, such as a jail. And it's entirely possible that they had this guy in an interview area that would not require them to secure their weapons.
 
2012-12-28 10:22:51 AM  
We need more big government. More guys with guns in case the good guys get their guns taken away.
 
2012-12-28 10:23:33 AM  

Audaeus: If only someone could explain why only 3 people were shot... hmm, it's a little hard....


You're right.  It shouldn't have been any.
 
2012-12-28 10:24:30 AM  

KIA: Coco LaFemme: KIA: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown? Something like 500+?

About the same number that have died as a result of the flu. Same as always. Did you get your flu shot?

Yup.  Though I'd like to see something empirical that says over 500 people have died of the flu in the last three weeks.

Last summer, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a report showing that over 20,000 people a year die in the U.S. as a result of influenza. About 90% of those people are over age 65, even though people over 65 make up only about 15% of the population.

See here: http://www.usmedicine.com/compendium/with-90-of-us-influenza-deaths-in -elderly-new-high-dose-vaccine-seeks-lower-mortality-morbidity-rates.h tml

CDC reported firearm homicides from 2009 as 11,493. Verify here http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Homicide is ranked #15 on the causes of death chart, far below heart disease, diabetes, influenza, septicemia, cirrhosis, and hypertension. Heck, it's lower than Parkinson's disease. Verify: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf
Heart disease and cancer caused 47.9% of the deaths all by themselves. Homicide itself was down 6.8% from 2008. Id.

By the way, the vast majority of firearms homicides are committed by people with prior criminal records. In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996. Other sources suggest that as much as 90% of all firearms offenses are committed by people with prior criminal convictions.


That's all well and good, but that's not what I asked you for.  If I wanted to know how many people died every year as a result of the flu, I could have looked that up on my own.  Same with every other statistic you threw at me.  You said that the same number of people that have died as a result of gun violence in the last three weeks is the same number of people who have died of the flu, and I wanted you to show me something that said that over 500 people have died of the flu in the last 21 days.
 
2012-12-28 10:24:39 AM  

Mart Laar's beard shaver: Taken from a cam at the scene:

[img32.imageshack.us image 650x366]


So close, and yet so far.
 
2012-12-28 10:24:44 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Benjamin Orr: Bontesla: The Muthaship: Bontesla: So maybe the shooter only kills 20 instead of 27? That's not a significant improvement.

Really?

Is 20 your definition of a significant improvement? You aim low.

Not that I think that having armed guards in every school is a good thing... but isn't this the exact argument used to limit magazine size? That yes people will still die but it will be less somehow with smaller magazines?

The difference is 10 shots per mag vs. 100. Not 26 vs 20.


My point is that either reducing deaths is a good thing or it isn't.

I don't even want to know what a handgun with a 100 rd magazine would look like.
 
2012-12-28 10:26:15 AM  

Scerpes: I've been in a ton of police stations and none of them ever required officers to secure weapons.


imagemacros.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-28 10:26:39 AM  

Mart Laar's beard shaver: Taken from a cam at the scene:


robertus: [photo.shockya.com image 500x375]


3 seconds off.  Damn, that was close.  Still awesome, though.
 
2012-12-28 10:26:54 AM  
Personally, I'm happy the officers are alive and hopefully able to return to their duties of turning their Tasers on the true criminal element that are elderly women and school children.
 
2012-12-28 10:27:06 AM  
Identical thing almost happened up here in Vermont earlier this year.
Guy I knew got hauled in for domestic (he went ballistic when he caught his wife in bed with a chick) and went for the cops gun while drunk. Needless to say, her bed's warm and his cot's cold.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 10:27:40 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: If we're already the most heavily armed populace on the planet, but also the 10th most dangerous for gun violence


You see what you did right there, right?
 
2012-12-28 10:27:48 AM  

Kiriyama9000: liam76: Kiriyama9000: The jerk-off probably managed to yank one of the officers service weapons from a holster.
The cops responded with deadly force and killed the mother farker.
Thankfully there were only injuries to the police and only some asshat is dead.

This is how things are supposed to work
Really?

I am pretty sure whn the police have somebody in custody they, as a rule, shouldn't be able to take police officers weapon from them.
You're making an assumption that every officer is perfect at their job.
You also fail to realize that the officer needs access to their service weapon.
They can do as much as they can to prevent others from gaining access, but it is still a weapon holstered at their side that they need immediate access to should the need arise. Other officers did this and lives were saved because of it.

Where are you going with your logic?


I made no assumption.

You claimed this was how it was supposed to work, I pointed out it was pretty stupid to think that a guy, in custody, grabbing a cops gun is how it is "supposed to work".

it is also pretty stupid to claim their lives were saved by having guns holstered at their side when their lives were put in danger because they couldn't control guns holstered at their side.


What should the officers have done prior to this?
Disarm themselves and then move the guy?

They are armed for a reason.
For this very reason.


The officer should have made sure a person in custody couldn't take their weapon.

The officer who lost their weapon has just shown it isn't safe for them to carry a weapon.
 
2012-12-28 10:28:27 AM  

vudukungfu: Identical thing almost happened up here in Vermont earlier this year.
Guy I knew got hauled in for domestic (he went ballistic when he caught his wife in bed with a chick) and went for the cops gun while drunk. Needless to say, her bed's warm and his cot's cold.


Your friend sounds unstable and illogical
 
2012-12-28 10:28:27 AM  

Vodka Zombie: Personally, I'm happy the officers are alive and hopefully able to return to their duties of turning their Tasers on the true criminal element that are elderly women and school children.


With a little luck, they'll get a dirty hippy or two.
 
2012-12-28 10:28:58 AM  

vudukungfu: Gay guy I knew got hauled in for domestic (he went ballistic when he caught his wife in bed with a chick)


FTFY
 
2012-12-28 10:29:10 AM  

vudukungfu: when he caught his wife in bed with a chick


.... but why was he mad?
 
KIA
2012-12-28 10:29:18 AM  

Coco LaFemme: I wanted you to show me something that said that over 500 people have died of the flu in the last 21 days.


So, you don't believe in math or averages? Try it and see what you get. Go on. 20,000 flu deaths a year vs 11,493 firearms deaths per annum. I know you can do it!
 
2012-12-28 10:29:18 AM  

FinFangFark: I was gonna make a crack about the NRA blaming Grand Theft Auto for this, and how their should be vets walking the halls with guns to prevent these things...but meh, it's Friday...gonna go grab a breakfast taco instead.


Ladies and gentlemen, the most reasonable man on fark.

Driving into Pueblo this morning, a breakfast taco sounds right up my alley.
 
2012-12-28 10:29:43 AM  
AWESOME!

These gunmen are finally going after the right people!
 
2012-12-28 10:30:05 AM  
3 injured, 2 minor and one in stable condition, and a dead shooter.
Nice try, but +1 guns.
 
2012-12-28 10:30:45 AM  

People_are_Idiots: The nice thing about those though it takes a little bit more thought to get to the gun, something this guy probably didn't have. As far as having him cuffed or not, my thought was in this line: "Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident." Usually if you're under arrest like that from what I've seen, you're already in cuffs (not arguing with you mind you). Most towns I know of have their police station in the jail, so it isn't unusual to have police bringing the perp to the station.


Well, newspapers use the term arrest a lot and most people always picture an arrest as being cuffed and taken to jail. That leads to a lot of "what?? he was arrested for littering, jay walking, simple possession????" etc. I activate my lights and pull you over, technically that is an arrest. I give you a ticket for misdemeanor possession and you get to walk away. That is an arrest and release on summons.

So this guy "being arrested" doesn't automatically mean he was in cuffs.

It happens a lot for people turning themselves in at the jail. Jail Deputies can't arrest people so we will go over. Handcuff them for about 2 minutes while we search, take off the cuffs, issue the warrant, and take them to processing. Easily those guys could have changed their minds and decided they didn't want to go to jail that night.  Because they are turning themselves in they are not in the secure area of the jail and therefore I remain armed because they can be. It's only when I take them to processing to I turn over my weapons.
 
2012-12-28 10:30:54 AM  

WillyChase: FinFangFark: I was gonna make a crack about the NRA blaming Grand Theft Auto for this, and how their should be vets walking the halls with guns to prevent these things...but meh, it's Friday...gonna go grab a breakfast taco instead.

Ladies and gentlemen, the most reasonable man on fark.

Driving into Pueblo this morning, a breakfast taco sounds right up my alley.


Well it will certainly be shooting down your alley later on
 
2012-12-28 10:33:47 AM  

asscorethethird: AWESOME!

These gunmen are finally going after the right people!


The right one sure died.
 
2012-12-28 10:34:01 AM  

Scerpes: Civil_War2_Time: Yes, it IS a stupid simplistic argument.

BUT, this is where the concealed vs. open-view carry situation comes into play.

If the tackled cop had his gun in a holster around his ankle (like my dad's .45 mini), there would likely have been but one person shot...the perp. Although the perp wouldn't have tackled someone trying to get his gun if he didn't know if he even had one on-person (and in a police station).

It's time for cops to stop showing-off their weapons, because they don't need to. Conceal it, and there will be next to no shootings of cops with their own guns...IMO.

1. Ankle holsters are horrendous for a primary weapon.

2. I'm sure you've never taken off your jacket in your office.


I said it was just my opinion.

My friend and aunt was murdered 10 years ago this past week (when some dick took her purse, found only $20 and was so pissed he gut-shot her). IMO, if she had a gun that was reasonably accessable (ankle-holster, etc.), she might still be alive today. YMMV.

My dad carries because he works in the same part of Houston where she was killed. He had never had a CCW permit before that.
 
2012-12-28 10:34:22 AM  

Benjamin Orr: WillyChase: FinFangFark: I was gonna make a crack about the NRA blaming Grand Theft Auto for this, and how their should be vets walking the halls with guns to prevent these things...but meh, it's Friday...gonna go grab a breakfast taco instead.

Ladies and gentlemen, the most reasonable man on fark.

Driving into Pueblo this morning, a breakfast taco sounds right up my alley.

Well it will certainly be shooting down your alley later on


You, sir, have won the internet.
 
2012-12-28 10:35:08 AM  
If not previously stated, the toll could have been much worse if they did't have guns to protect themselves. And subby is a douche.
 
2012-12-28 10:35:18 AM  

thecpt: vudukungfu: when he caught his wife in bed with a chick

.... but why was he mad?


I'll respond to all 3 of you here.
His nickname was the "Funmeister" at America's #1 family resort.
He worked with children all his life and was like a kid at heart.
Acted young, thought young, even married a much younger woman.
After three kids, she decided it was time to "Experiment"

If she had told him and been honest with him, and broke it to him gently, he might have been OK with it.
But she was going over to her girl friend's house for "tupperware" parties, and calling him and saying she wasn't going to drive back, too much wine, etc, and spending the night and leaving him stuck in a small cabin (one I used to live in ) with the kids.

She was using him as a babby sitter while she got laid.
 
2012-12-28 10:36:02 AM  

KIA: Coco LaFemme: I wanted you to show me something that said that over 500 people have died of the flu in the last 21 days.

So, you don't believe in math or averages? Try it and see what you get. Go on. 20,000 flu deaths a year vs 11,493 firearms deaths per annum. I know you can do it!

So you can't find me something specific that says over 500 people have died of the flu in the last 21 days?  That's what you said, and I asked you to back it up.  It's not my job to prove your assertion - that's yours.  It doesn't mean I don't believe in math or averages.......it means I don't believe YOU.  If you count the number of major wars we've had since declaring our independence and divide it by the number of years since 1776, we average out to about 1 major war every 20 or so years.  However, that's an average, not the actual number.  Considering WWII, Korea, and Vietnam all happened within the same 15 year span, it proves that averages don't tell the whole story.


So for the last time - find me an article somewhere that says in the last 21 days over 500 people have died of the flu, or forever hold your peace.

 
2012-12-28 10:36:12 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: You know what, honest question here for the "guns are not a part of the problem" crowd. I like facts and numbers and figures and I like to draw conclusions from them. Here's a series of facts I've gleaned from FBI crime stats and Wikipedia tables for other threads since Newtown:

1. The USA is far and away the most heavily armed society in the world. More than 88 guns per 100 citizens. More than 40% of all people in the country between the ages of zero and dead own at least one gun. That last bit isn't "on average", that's actually people who own at least one gun.

2. The OECD member country list is useful for comparing like nations based on their development. Among OECD member countries, only Mexico has more gun crimes per capita than the USA

3. 37/50 states in the USA have "will-issue" laws on the books for concealed carry permits. 2 states are "constitutional carry" and do not even require a permit. One state is technically "shall issue" but operates as "will issue". That means in 40 out 50 states the only people who can't get a concealed carry permit are felons and people who are known to be mentally unstable (which is a small number of people since states are not required to provide that information to the FBI anymore).

4. Only 7 of 50 states ranked 50 (out of 100) or above on Brady Campaign's gun control scorecard. 5 more ranked 25 or above leaving 38 of 50 states scoring 24 or less with the majority scoring between 0 and 10.

How can you, in a country more armed than any other nation, with a vast majority of states allowing unchallenged concealed carry for non-felons, and a vast majority of states having weak or no gun control laws on the books reconcile the argument that the problem is we need more armed citizens when we also lead all developed nations (except the one embroiled in a massive drug war) in gun violence and are way up the list on all countries combined?

I literally cannot even begin to comprehend the argument here. We're already more armed th ...


Here's your problem: saying "gun crime" is a logical fallacy. You fail to consider:

- what is listed as "gun crime" for your statistics includes suicides and all manner of gun-related incidents. Suicides alone comprise about 60-70% of these so-called "gun crimes".
- Of the remaining crime figures, a vast majority of those are drug-related, stemming from the flow of illegal drugs into the country and the criminal organizations and gangs to whom the flow represents vast moneys.

Also, what you fail to recognize is that, in comparison, other nations in your list have far different systems for providing mental health care (non existent in this country beyond private insurance or out of pocket), far less poverty rates than the US, and far less diverse populations, leading to social friction.

I think it's fairly stupid to argue that "not enough people have guns", but would instead argue that we fail to address the process by which we handle criminals and the mentally ill, and have significantly failed insofar as maintaining and streamlining the process by which data on people who should NOT have guns make it into the system by which we determine eligibility to OWN guns.

Further I'd submit that we fail to stringently enforce the process of preventing straw purchases simply in that we do little to follow up and verify.

This is where I think registration could help, provided that the database of information were kept strictly confidential, and provisions were made to require a warrant and good cause to look at it beyond searching by serial number to determine ownership of a firearm and track its path.

I don;t think that it's necessary to pass a lot of gratuitous feel-good legislation that goes overboard on what we do when I think we can pass amended legislation that fix the NICS system, reporting requirements, and institute an electronic 4473 process that both streamlines the NICS background check system for dealers and keeps a copy of the paperwork on file with the ATF, as well as making it searchable for law enforcement.
 
2012-12-28 10:36:27 AM  

DeathCipris: 3 injured, 2 minor and one in stable condition, and a dead shooter.
Nice try, but +1 guns.


I'll guess you're not the officer that took a bullet in his gut.
 
2012-12-28 10:37:13 AM  
Ok, how many people in this thread had to change their pants before posting their stupid comments relating this to the (actual)mass murder of children in a gun free zone in a gun control state?


Hmmmm?

1 > 27
 
2012-12-28 10:37:22 AM  

Shahab: I think it doesn't fit gun control advocate's message so they try and dismiss it out of hand.


Sure it does. Guns are dangerous, more guns increase the potential for danger. The police officer had his/her gun stolen, you think this couldn't happen in a school where they are talking about arming teachers or to some retired NRA security volunteer?
 
2012-12-28 10:37:23 AM  

Civil_War2_Time: My friend and aunt was murdered 10 years ago this past week (when some dick took her purse, found only $20 and was so pissed he gut-shot her). IMO, if she had a gun that was reasonably accessable (ankle-holster, etc.), she might still be alive today. YMMV.


If she had a gun in an ankle holster, and the guy who shot her already had his gun out, he would've shot her for reaching for it.
 
2012-12-28 10:38:16 AM  

publikenemy: After a few years, I think I finally have Fark figured out..

-Cops are hated
-Guns are bad
-Unions are great
-The U.S. sucks...but Obama is great
-The govt. sucks..but it's ok now because of Obama
-Republicans are evil and responsible for everything from killing old people, to killing the arts and global warming
-Religion is bad, and if you are a Christian especially, you are stupid and deserve scorn and hatred..but Obama being a Christian and mentioning God is a-ok
-Cars are bad..unless they're electric
-The rich are evil
-Obama biatches!


I miss anything?



www.allmystery.de
 
2012-12-28 10:38:29 AM  

s2s2s2: Ok, how many people in this thread had to change their pants before posting their stupid comments relating this to the (actual)mass murder of children in a gun free zone in a gun control state?


Hmmmm?

1 > 27


Look, all we're saying is if we armed cops this wouldn't happen.
 
2012-12-28 10:38:53 AM  
So the only reason this guy got a gun is because the cops were carrying them around a criminal?

If this was the UK the guy would freak out, get beat down, then locked up.

Obviously this would be worse than him getting a gun and shooting three people.
 
2012-12-28 10:39:45 AM  

KIA: Coco LaFemme: How many people have died in this country as a result of guns since Newtown? Something like 500+?

About the same number that have died as a result of the flu. Same as always. Did you get your flu shot?


Perhaps. And if we could eradicte the flu, we would. Instead we take steps to reduce the mortality. Hmmm
 
2012-12-28 10:40:25 AM  

meintx2001: If not previously stated, the toll could have been much worse if they did't have guns to protect themselves. And subby is a douche.


How does one differentiate the guns they use to protect themselves versus the ones they willingly hand out to violent offenders? I'm just asking because the entire story revolves around the latter.
 
2012-12-28 10:41:42 AM  

Civil_War2_Time: Yes, it IS a stupid simplistic argument.

BUT, this is where the concealed vs. open-view carry situation comes into play.

If the tackled cop had his gun in a holster around his ankle (like my dad's .45 mini), there would likely have been but one person shot...the perp. Although the perp wouldn't have tackled someone trying to get his gun if he didn't know if he even had one on-person (and in a police station).

It's time for cops to stop showing-off their weapons, because they don't need to. Conceal it, and there will be next to no shootings of cops with their own guns...IMO.


1) The suspect is the only one that know's ahead of time that there is going to be some shooting. He has the tremendous tactical advantage of action where I have to rely on reaction to respond. So now you want me to drop to a knee, pull up my pants, pull out a useless sub compact and get into a fight?

2) It's called deterrent. Your gun is in your waistband behind your back and mine is about 2" from the gun hand. Going to draw on me? There is a chance that you might get a shot off but I am going to be returning fire almost immediately after it. Unless you happen to get me in the head I am shooting back.
 
2012-12-28 10:42:35 AM  
I will never understand facilities that think having officers in direct contact with the accused while carrying a gun is a good idea. I'd like to see someone shoot up a room full of people out take a dozen hostages after wrestling a baton away from an officer. Stow the firearms and carry contact weapon only when in direct contact with the accused; what is wrong with this concept?
 
2012-12-28 10:42:53 AM  

People_are_Idiots: The nice thing about those though it takes a little bit more thought to get to the gun, something this guy probably didn't have. As far as having him cuffed or not, my thought was in this line: "Police said a suspect was under arrest in connection with a domestic violence-related incident." Usually if you're under arrest like that from what I've seen, you're already in cuffs (not arguing with you mind you). Most towns I know of have their police station in the jail, so it isn't unusual to have police bringing the perp to the station.


It would be very uncommon to have a police station in a jail. Some police stations have temporary holding cells, but jails are generally run by counties where as the police stations are run by cities. They may even be in the same building, but the entrances to the jails will be separate and secured. Even if they share a common public entrance, the jail will be a very definite separate area.

Being in handcuffs is not a requirement to be under arrest. All that has to happen is some action to indicate that you're in police custody, such as being told that you're under arrest.
 
2012-12-28 10:43:48 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: only Mexico has more gun crimes per capita than the USA


And Mexico has very strict gun control over civilian firearm ownership. Yay prohibition. Failing forever.
 
2012-12-28 10:44:24 AM  

vudukungfu: She was using him as a babby sitter while she got laid.


Sorry, it was obligatory snark. I for one would crumble if I experienced the same thing, even without having kids.
 
2012-12-28 10:46:13 AM  

Civil_War2_Time: It's time for cops to stop showing-off their weapons, because they don't need to. Conceal it, and there will be next to no shootings of cops with their own guns...IMO.

1. Ankle holsters are horrendous for a primary weapon.

2. I'm sure you've never taken off your jacket in your office.

I said it was just my opinion.

My friend and aunt was murdered 10 years ago this past week (when some dick took her purse, found only $20 and was so pissed he gut-shot her). IMO, if she had a gun that was reasonably accessable (ankle-holster, etc.), she might still be alive today. YMMV.

My dad carries because he works in the same part of Houston where she was killed. He had never had a CCW permit before that.


I'm sorry to hear about your aunt, but she'd have been shot trying to get to an ankle holster. It's a horrible choice for law enforcement because it's not reasonably accessible. For a backup weapon it's fine, but for a primary, your options are pretty limited.
 
2012-12-28 10:46:17 AM  

publikenemy: After a few years, I think I finally have Fark figured out..

-Cops are hated
-Guns are bad
-Unions are great
-The U.S. sucks...but Obama is great
-The govt. sucks..but it's ok now because of Obama
-Republicans are evil and responsible for everything from killing old people, to killing the arts and global warming
-Religion is bad, and if you are a Christian especially, you are stupid and deserve scorn and hatred..but Obama being a Christian and mentioning God is a-ok
-Cars are bad..unless they're electric
-The rich are evil
-Obama biatches!


I miss anything?


Basically, it's whatever CNN and John Stewart tell them to think.
 
2012-12-28 10:46:30 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Look, all we're saying is if we armed cops this wouldn't happen.


What wouldn't happen? Perps being killed for trying to kill cops? Getting shot is in the job description of cops. Is that news to you? You are acting like that is news to you.

Oh I see. The effective use of guns to prevent a wider tragedy has you needing to run defense.

Much like the man in PA who was proving the words of that idiot, LaPierre as he was saying them.
 
2012-12-28 10:46:50 AM  

meintx2001: If not previously stated, the toll could have been much worse if they did't have guns to protect themselves. And subby is a douche.


As previously stated the toll would have been much less if the police were not carrying the gun the guy stole from them.....

And you are a douche.
 
2012-12-28 10:47:16 AM  

KIA: You see what you did right there, right?


You're seriously gonna run with the argument that everything's cool because at least we're not El Salvador or Colombia? Really?

Anyway, don't bother answering that. Either answer the question or don't, I'm not getting into this idiotic "debate" again for the billionth time with people who have no interest in even considering any viewpoint but their own.

Kit Fister: stuff snipped for brevity


Your response suggests you're not really the target of my question. I am specifically seeking a response from the crowd of people who are absolutely opposed to even considering that the current level of access to firearms is part of the problem. The fact that you even support the notion of talking about controlling straw purchases or registration puts you far to the left of the people I'm seeking an answer from here.
 
2012-12-28 10:48:15 AM  

s2s2s2: cameroncrazy1984: Look, all we're saying is if we armed cops this wouldn't happen.

What wouldn't happen? Perps being killed for trying to kill cops? Getting shot is in the job description of cops. Is that news to you? You are acting like that is news to you.

Oh I see. The effective use of guns to prevent a wider tragedy has you needing to run defense.

Much like the man in PA who was proving the words of that idiot, LaPierre as he was saying them.


It really is tragic that there wasn't armed police officer in the Sandy Hook school. There might have only been three people wounded there, too. Or less.
 
2012-12-28 10:48:22 AM  

dready zim: if the police were not carrying the gun the guy stole from them


Um, no. Had the police still been carrying that gun, he'd have had no gun to shoot at them with.
 
2012-12-28 10:48:44 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Civil_War2_Time: My friend and aunt was murdered 10 years ago this past week (when some dick took her purse, found only $20 and was so pissed he gut-shot her). IMO, if she had a gun that was reasonably accessable (ankle-holster, etc.), she might still be alive today. YMMV.

If she had a gun in an ankle holster, and the guy who shot her already had his gun out, he would've shot her for reaching for it.


That's a valid point. But, he snatched her purse in a warehouse (he'd been stalking her), and only the two were there. He was 3X her size, and the cameras caught him pulling the gun out after he checked the contents. He then blew her away.

Our family didn't seek the death penalty, and convinced the prosecuter and judge to let him live the rest of his days in prison.

Had she been carrying a gun on-her (waist, ankle, etc.), he'd be the one likely dead...not her.
 
2012-12-28 10:49:21 AM  

Civil_War2_Time: I said it was just my opinion.

My friend and aunt was murdered 10 years ago this past week (when some dick took her purse, found only $20 and was so pissed he gut-shot her). IMO, if she had a gun that was reasonably accessable (ankle-holster, etc.), she might still be alive today. YMMV.

My dad carries because he works in the same part of Houston where she was killed. He had never had a CCW permit before that.


I could offer up several better options for your father for concealment. Ankle holsters are good for stash or back up weapons only. I would not consider them for a primary defensive weapon. Accessing the weapon is not a natural or fluid motion.
 
2012-12-28 10:49:37 AM  

Scerpes: It really is tragic that there wasn't armed police officer in the Sandy Hook school. There might have only been three people wounded there, too. Or less.


Only if that mythical cop had a weapon with real stopping power, and really good aim.
 
KIA
2012-12-28 10:50:16 AM  

Coco LaFemme: KIA: Coco LaFemme: find me an article somewhere that says in the last 21 days over 500 people have died of the flu


Are you seriously contending that the long-term average of flu deaths has somehow been suspended over the last 21 days? 20,000 flu deaths a year is an average of (20,000 / 365) 54.79 per day. Round to 55 x 21 days = 1155 flu deaths in the last 21 days.

Now, you appear to want to argue that if there aren't statistics which have been gathered and published already for the last 21 days, then nobody actually died of the flu. That's a whole new level of stupid which has no place in rational discussions.

If you're going to concede that you're being wildly irrational, then by all means proceed.
 
2012-12-28 10:50:18 AM  

generallyso: I will never understand facilities that think having officers in direct contact with the accused while carrying a gun is a good idea. I'd like to see someone shoot up a room full of people out take a dozen hostages after wrestling a baton away from an officer. Stow the firearms and carry contact weapon only when in direct contact with the accused; what is wrong with this concept?


Large amounts of THIS.
 
2012-12-28 10:51:01 AM  

bulldg4life: Remember when people pointed out that the knife attack in China only caused 22 wounded children, but pro-gun people said it didn't matter because people were going to get killed one way or the other......now we have people pointing out that armed guards might lead to 20 people getting killed instead of 27, therefore it is a reasonable solution.

How about just a tiny little bit of consistency...


OK, how about the knife attack at a Chinese kindergarten that resulted in 12 dead and 5 injured? Or the guy in Africa who killed 21 people with an axe? Or the guy in Sweden who killed 9 with an axe? What about the guy in the UK who managed to kill 12 and injure 11 using "sporting" firearms: A double barrel shotgun and a .22 rifle.
 
2012-12-28 10:51:22 AM  

s2s2s2: Scerpes: It really is tragic that there wasn't armed police officer in the Sandy Hook school. There might have only been three people wounded there, too. Or less.

Only if that mythical cop had a weapon with real stopping power, and really good aim.


Depends on what you mean by "real stopping power." And average aim could have sufficed.
 
d23 [BareFark]
2012-12-28 10:51:37 AM  
www.animeout.com

Easy on the eyes AND will basically have more weaponry than any street thug will ever have.
 
2012-12-28 10:51:50 AM  

Scerpes: s2s2s2: cameroncrazy1984: Look, all we're saying is if we armed cops this wouldn't happen.

What wouldn't happen? Perps being killed for trying to kill cops? Getting shot is in the job description of cops. Is that news to you? You are acting like that is news to you.

Oh I see. The effective use of guns to prevent a wider tragedy has you needing to run defense.

Much like the man in PA who was proving the words of that idiot, LaPierre as he was saying them.

It really is tragic that there wasn't armed police officer in the Sandy Hook school. There might have only been three people wounded there, too. Or less.


Or the officer could have been the first victim, and the shooter could have had an extra weapon as a result. It's easy to play the woulda coulda shoulda game and come up with whatever outcome you want.
 
2012-12-28 10:53:07 AM  

dready zim: generallyso: I will never understand facilities that think having officers in direct contact with the accused while carrying a gun is a good idea. I'd like to see someone shoot up a room full of people out take a dozen hostages after wrestling a baton away from an officer. Stow the firearms and carry contact weapon only when in direct contact with the accused; what is wrong with this concept?

Large amounts of THIS.


Because there are secure and non secure areas of the jail. In the non-secure area the subject could still be armed therefore I will remain armed.
 
2012-12-28 10:53:38 AM  
While I'm against a mandate for civilians, this is why the development of smart guns that only fire for the owner is so important. Last time I heard, the number one source of a gun when a cop is shot is still his or her own gun. I know the technology exists, but it is still not ready for the field. It has to be relatively fool proof, and reliable enough that when an office draws his weapon, he knows it will fire.

Hell I'd use that technology at home. Since the kids got old enough to get into anything and everything, my guns have been locked up. The odds of me needing to defend my family from a home invasion are simply too low vs. the chance of one of my family getting accidentally shot with one of my guns.
 
2012-12-28 10:53:54 AM  

seatown75: Scerpes: s2s2s2: cameroncrazy1984: Look, all we're saying is if we armed cops this wouldn't happen.

What wouldn't happen? Perps being killed for trying to kill cops? Getting shot is in the job description of cops. Is that news to you? You are acting like that is news to you.

Oh I see. The effective use of guns to prevent a wider tragedy has you needing to run defense.

Much like the man in PA who was proving the words of that idiot, LaPierre as he was saying them.

It really is tragic that there wasn't armed police officer in the Sandy Hook school. There might have only been three people wounded there, too. Or less.

Or the officer could have been the first victim, and the shooter could have had an extra weapon as a result. It's easy to play the woulda coulda shoulda game and come up with whatever outcome you want.


If you think the school wouldn't have been safer with an armed police officer on campus, you're out of your mind. I can't guarantee that he could have ended the incident without some loss of life, but I can tell you that 20 dead 2nd graders would have had a better chance.