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(Wired)   Shockingly enough it turns out that people don't want to tweet from their TV. Or read books. Or Fark. Because as it turns out, smart TVs pretty much suck   (wired.com) divider line 118
    More: Obvious, Apple TV, college kids, SimCity, Google TV, reading a book, Design for Loving, highlights  
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2580 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Dec 2012 at 10:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-28 11:51:45 AM
In the 3 years since I bought my flat screen I think I've used the smart features twice. As a matter of fact, last night was the second time and I **gasp** used the YouTube feature to watch TV. The only other feature I have used is the weather widget, but even that is limited.
 
2012-12-28 11:52:10 AM

Earpj: Hmm... I want to get one (once the kids get the x-box out of my living room) for Netflix. Do they do Netflix ok?


My Vizio does netflix poorly. Load times are 5x longer with Vizio compared to my HTPC. Now that everything has a hdmi, the HTPC is king and everything else sucks.

Also, rip all your movies to hdd and you never have to watch previews or have your kids scratch a disc again.
 
2012-12-28 11:53:18 AM
I use my smart TV to stream audio from my media server all the time in the living room and I watch TV.
 
2012-12-28 11:55:42 AM

pdieten: Which is too bad - whoever figures out how to make this easy ought to have a real popular product.


People are going to hate it, but Apple's pretty close to that. Pretty much anything you do on your iOS devices gets over to your AppleTV transparently, especially if you set up iCloud. It's the advantage of having a closed ecosystem.
 
2012-12-28 11:57:10 AM

Marine1: [onlinerecenze.cz image 850x772]

Problem, meet solution. Solution, meet problem.


Only if you pay the yearly subscription to Xbox Live Gold on top of your Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon. Microsoft is the ONLY company making a set-top box that requires you to subscribe to ANOTHER service in order to use services you already subscribe to. The Xbox 360 is the worst media streamer for this reason alone. Why should I have to give Microsoft more money to use something I already pay for? Screw that!

I've used them all, and the best Netflix and Hulu Plus interface is the Wii U. It uses a combination of the touch screen and TV screen, and it handles it brilliantly.

For Amazon, the best is the PS3 (and, of course, the Kindle Fire is good, but that's a portable solution, not a set-top box).

The various low-cost media streamers all do a decent job, but have generally clunky interfaces. Roku has a great interface for most services. WDTV has a halfway decent interface, but WD has a habit of leaving owners out to dry as soon as a new model hits the market each year. Apple TV is decent but limited. XBMC is great, but suffers from various little problems. Boxee was good, but kind of barebones and had limited support of various services.

I think I've owned them all at one point or another. Currently, I'm happy with a PS3, a Sony Media Streamer, and a PC.

But Xbox 360? Hell no. I wouldn't bother to use that for media streaming, since it's so tied to a pay service.
 
2012-12-28 11:59:46 AM

Great Janitor: Okay, apparently we keep making this mistake, so here's the lesson (again):

Computers can do what televisions can do and more
televisions shouldn't do what computers can do.

Just because I can check email and tweet and surf the internet from my ipad, laptop and phone doesn't mean everything should, the tv does just what it should do, a device for television shows, movies and video game consoles.

/failed in the 1990s with Interactive TV
//failed later with Current TV
///just doesn't work


you are so very very wrong. you are NOT wrong in that early attempts failed, because there was NOTHING on the internet in the late 90's - early 2000's that justified surfing the net on a tv and what was there looked like ass.

times have changed. most tv's are nothing more than glorified computer monitors. the best apps out there play video and music and games that for MOST consumers equal anything Nintendo makes (since MOST consumers only really like WII Sports).

Much like how the laptop is fading in favor of the tablet (and smart phone, honestly) for average consumers (because most consumers don't NEED a laptop to check email and netflix), the stand-alone PC is going to fade as that functionality is incorporated into the tv. I can sit back on my couch right now with a wireless mouse and do everything on my television that I used to do hunched over a monitor in the "computer room". it rules.
 
2012-12-28 12:01:00 PM

wholedamnshow: janeuner: wholedamnshow: Everything you said after "Netflix/Amazon/Pandora," 99.9% of the baby-boomer population doesn't give a shiat about.

FTFY

I think you're overestimating how much people care about their TVs. I'm 30. Most of my friends are the same age or younger. I can't think of more than one of my friends that would be interested in any of those features.


Pretty much this. When you add in that something like 80% of Netflix users already watch on a device that's hooked up to a TV, you find that Smart TVs are being marketed to everybody when their potential user base is significantly smaller. It's now wonder their features aren't being heavily used.
 
2012-12-28 12:03:51 PM

t3knomanser: I cannot feel this way about televisions. Televisions are monitors.


This. If I drop a couple grand on a TV, I don't want it to be obsolete in a year or two because the "smart features" are obsolete. You can always upgrade discrete components (like Roku or Apple TV) relatively cheaply, swap them between TVs, etc. etc. Not quite as easy if everything is built in (this fact alone more than makes up for the fact that you "lose" a power outlet).

I learned my lesson when I bought a 24" iMac in late 2007. Decent computer with a very nice built in 24" monitor. It's getting to be time to upgrade; if I had instead bought a Mac mini and a Cinema display (for about the same price), I'd still have a usable display for any new computer. As it sits, because of the integrated nature of the iMac, I've now got an obsolete paperweight.
 
2012-12-28 12:04:53 PM

frepnog: Slaves2Darkness: Why would I waste a lot of time trying to duplicate capabilities I all ready posses?

why would you waste time having sex when you could just masturbate?


Hardly a valid analogy when the quality of experience for viewing something on the TV is exactly the same just the source of the content is different.  Your argument is more appropriately stated by saying why masturbate with the KY when you could masturbate with hand lotion.
 
2012-12-28 12:08:50 PM

WhippingBoy: If I drop a couple grand on a TV, I don't want it to be obsolete in a year or two because the "smart features" are obsolete.


Essentially, TV manufacturers are trying to break the sense people have of a TV-as-an-appliance, and instead force people to think of them as gadgets. Once upon a time, you bought a TV and used it until it broke. Then you bought another one. Maybe you saved up to buy a bigger one, but for the most part, you weren't buying new TVs much more frequently than you were buying new refrigerators or washing machines.

When the HDTV switchover happened, the people making TVs suddenly saw a huge uptick in sales as people upgraded. And they don't want to go back. They want you buying a new TV every five years.
 
2012-12-28 12:09:43 PM

meanmutton: wholedamnshow: I can't imagine the interface or anything of a smart TV being any better than my Roku. I get Netflix, HBO GO, Amazon Instant Video, and Hulu Plus if I decided to sign up for it. I also use Pandora when I'm having a party and Epix if I wanna watch a more recent movie.

What can a Smart TV do that my $80 Roku can't?

Not cost you the extra $80, not require an extra plug in your powerstrip, not require one extra cable to your TV. It's basically a Roku built into the TV.


Until of course a new services is available or there is a change in your existing server. Smart TV manufactures seem to forget about TVs that are more than a year old. I bought a high end Samsung 55" LED couple of years ago. I bought for other features aside from the smart one. Aside from a few firmware updates about that only thing of note was that they REMOVED blockbuster streaming service from the interface. There have been no other real updates and no way to really expand services.

At least with Roku, Xbox, PS3 and other devices, you will have some support. TV manufactures thing the way to update the software is for you to simply buy a new farking TV set. Not thanks, just make a good monitor with plenty of inputs I can use.
 
2012-12-28 12:09:54 PM
Another feature-rich device with features no one wants or uses. This has held true for generations of electronics. Most people use less than10% of the features on anything they own. Companies focus on jamming more features into a box, resulting in a complicated, unworkable system. People will learn how to do the few things they care about and ignore everything else. Make the interface too complicated and all they'll do is dis the product and use something else.

Remember the Flip camera? Point-n-shoot movies, nothing extra. Went from zero to 40% of the market before being purchased and killed.
 
2012-12-28 12:13:52 PM
Eh, I'd use the Netflix app if I had a "Smart TV."  My main rig is hooked up to my TV so I can play all those hundreds of games picked up on Steam using a nice big screen.  However, because nVidia can't code drivers, if I want to switch over to my consoles I have to shut down my PC (because if I switch back, I can't get picture - no video and no way to safely shut down the PC.  Should have stuck with AMD, because their shiat works).  Would be nice to load up Netflix without having to turn on another console or fire up the PC.

But I'm certainly not going to buy a TV based on what apps it supports.
 
2012-12-28 12:14:42 PM
I have no idea what half of you are saying with all your fancy acronyms.

I got a Sony Google TV with a surround sound system last Christmas, hooked up an AT&T DVR, PS3, PS2, and Wii, and tried to use the built-in web search thingie. It's slow and annoying to use, so we don't internet through the TV.

What we use the smart TV for is Netflixing wirelessly like many have mentioned. In hindsight we probably didn't even need the smart TV part of it, since the Wii and PS3 can Netflix, but it was on sale for a good price, and the remote allows very easy typing when searching for movies and shows.

The old TV that went into the bedroom now has a Roku box.

So mark me down as one of the masses who don't like fighting with the TV-based internet interface--we just use one of the two computers in the same room for that. Or the iPad my son has, but that's more annoying than the desktop computer, too.
 
2012-12-28 12:16:11 PM

MayoSlather: Your argument is more appropriately stated by saying why masturbate with the KY when you could masturbate with hand lotion.


WINNER
 
2012-12-28 12:19:17 PM

frepnog: Great Janitor: Okay, apparently we keep making this mistake, so here's the lesson (again):

Computers can do what televisions can do and more
televisions shouldn't do what computers can do.

Just because I can check email and tweet and surf the internet from my ipad, laptop and phone doesn't mean everything should, the tv does just what it should do, a device for television shows, movies and video game consoles.

/failed in the 1990s with Interactive TV
//failed later with Current TV
///just doesn't work

you are so very very wrong. you are NOT wrong in that early attempts failed, because there was NOTHING on the internet in the late 90's - early 2000's that justified surfing the net on a tv and what was there looked like ass.


I will agree with that

times have changed. most tv's are nothing more than glorified computer monitors. the best apps out there play video and music and games that for MOST consumers equal anything Nintendo makes (since MOST consumers only really like WII Sports).


I will agree that the line between computer monitor and television is starting to blur, but apps for a television that can play music and video games seem redundant and pointless when you already have a Wii, PS3 or Xbox 360 hooked up to your television as well as a computer.

Much like how the laptop is fading in favor of the tablet (and smart phone, honestly) for average consumers (because most consumers don't NEED a laptop to check email and netflix), the stand-alone PC is going to fade as that functionality is incorporated into the tv. I can sit back on my couch right now with a wireless mouse and do everything on my television that I used to do hunched over a monitor in the "computer room". it rules.


The laptop isn't fading away. I have both a laptop and an iPad. The iPad does have it's uses, but when on Fark, for example, and I'm replying to a post and doing as much typing as I am, a tablet is useless. I hate typing on my ipad and smart phone. Even the Microsoft Surface, that tablet with the keyboard, isn't going to kill the laptop or even the PC.

The Smart Television and smart phone and tablet is not going to kill the PC/Laptop, not even for home use. The segment of society that only has a computer for email/facebook/netflix is a small segment. Add to that the PS3, Wii and 360, and the number of homes that have at least one of those items if not more, and it becomes clear that Smart tvs are rather pointless.
 
2012-12-28 12:20:25 PM

natazha: Another feature-rich device with features no one wants or uses. This has held true for generations of electronics. Most people use less than10% of the features on anything they own. Companies focus on jamming more features into a box, resulting in a complicated, unworkable system. People will learn how to do the few things they care about and ignore everything else. Make the interface too complicated and all they'll do is dis the product and use something else.

Remember the Flip camera? Point-n-shoot movies, nothing extra. Went from zero to 40% of the market before being purchased and killed.


Printers have been the shiny gloss poster child for this.  Touch screens, a myriad of USB/SD card inputs, apps, print from the internet features...total desperate overkill for a device that is being increasingly phased out at home.
 
2012-12-28 12:27:40 PM

Great Janitor: I will agree that the line between computer monitor and television is starting to blur, but apps for a television that can play music and video games seem redundant and pointless when you already have a Wii, PS3 or Xbox 360 hooked up to your television as well as a computer.


not everyone has a game console. Hell, MOST people don't have a game console. and yet most people DO have a television.....

Great Janitor: The laptop isn't fading away. I have both a laptop and an iPad. The iPad does have it's uses, but when on Fark, for example, and I'm replying to a post and doing as much typing as I am, a tablet is useless. I hate typing on my ipad and smart phone. Even the Microsoft Surface, that tablet with the keyboard, isn't going to kill the laptop or even the PC.


i get you here, and for some people that is true - but tablets are currently outselling laptops and in the next year or two tablet sales are going to dwarf laptop sales especially as they get more powerful. fact is that most people simply do not need a full fledged computer for what they use a computer for. I personally thought that the iPad was a useless piece of cool tech. I was wrong - much how the iPhone changed the mobile phone market, the iPad has fundamentally changed the computing market.
 
2012-12-28 12:28:31 PM

MayoSlather: natazha: Another feature-rich device with features no one wants or uses. This has held true for generations of electronics. Most people use less than10% of the features on anything they own. Companies focus on jamming more features into a box, resulting in a complicated, unworkable system. People will learn how to do the few things they care about and ignore everything else. Make the interface too complicated and all they'll do is dis the product and use something else.

Remember the Flip camera? Point-n-shoot movies, nothing extra. Went from zero to 40% of the market before being purchased and killed.

Printers have been the shiny gloss poster child for this.  Touch screens, a myriad of USB/SD card inputs, apps, print from the internet features...total desperate overkill for a device that is being increasingly phased out at home.


I've got a printer like the one you described. The added features add nothing to it. The sad thing is, it seems that when I actually want to print something, there's about a 50% chance that the computer won't be able to find the printer unless I reboot both devices. I'd pay good money for a printer that lacked all of those "cool" features if it actually worked when I needed it to.
 
2012-12-28 12:30:02 PM
If you have Video On Demand, Netflix, a DVR, and an internet connection - you don't need anything else. Ever. Add Redbox if you are feeling lazy.
 
2012-12-28 12:32:58 PM

ZeroCorpse: Marine1: [onlinerecenze.cz image 850x772]

Problem, meet solution. Solution, meet problem.

Only if you pay the yearly subscription to Xbox Live Gold on top of your Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon. Microsoft is the ONLY company making a set-top box that requires you to subscribe to ANOTHER service in order to use services you already subscribe to. The Xbox 360 is the worst media streamer for this reason alone. Why should I have to give Microsoft more money to use something I already pay for? Screw that!

I've used them all, and the best Netflix and Hulu Plus interface is the Wii U. It uses a combination of the touch screen and TV screen, and it handles it brilliantly.

For Amazon, the best is the PS3 (and, of course, the Kindle Fire is good, but that's a portable solution, not a set-top box).

The various low-cost media streamers all do a decent job, but have generally clunky interfaces. Roku has a great interface for most services. WDTV has a halfway decent interface, but WD has a habit of leaving owners out to dry as soon as a new model hits the market each year. Apple TV is decent but limited. XBMC is great, but suffers from various little problems. Boxee was good, but kind of barebones and had limited support of various services.

I think I've owned them all at one point or another. Currently, I'm happy with a PS3, a Sony Media Streamer, and a PC.

But Xbox 360? Hell no. I wouldn't bother to use that for media streaming, since it's so tied to a pay service.


If you're gaming, it's fine. I mean, I'm just some college student with a lab assistant job, and I've never had any real problem paying.

If I weren't into online gaming as well, I might see your point. However, my point is more that the 360 is a type of device that is selling, as opposed to Smart TVs. Why? Because you can hook it into any TV that you already have. That's why people don't want to buy Smart TVs; they just dropped a few grand on a 1080P panel just a few years back and it works fine. Until they can come up with some way to make flat screen TVs a commodity item that can be bought and sold for a max of $1000, the Rokus and 360s of the world will continue to rule.
 
2012-12-28 12:40:23 PM

t3knomanser: pdieten: Which is too bad - whoever figures out how to make this easy ought to have a real popular product.

People are going to hate it, but Apple's pretty close to that. Pretty much anything you do on your iOS devices gets over to your AppleTV transparently, especially if you set up iCloud. It's the advantage of having a closed ecosystem.


I hear that but Apple doesn't have a storage server yet. Unless you're going to keep your videos on your iToy forever you're SOL. I can't believe Apple doesn't have a storage server in the works that will automatically slurp media off the iToys and stream them back.
 
2012-12-28 12:54:12 PM

frepnog: Great Janitor: I will agree that the line between computer monitor and television is starting to blur, but apps for a television that can play music and video games seem redundant and pointless when you already have a Wii, PS3 or Xbox 360 hooked up to your television as well as a computer.

not everyone has a game console. Hell, MOST people don't have a game console. and yet most people DO have a television.....


I only know of one person who does not have a video game console, and that is my mother in law. Most of the older people I know of who have video game consoles do for their grandchildren. Not only that, but who out there really is looking for a television that can surf the internet? My PS3 can do it, and according to the posts in this thread, do it better than a smart television, but when I go to surf the internet I will either grab my iPad or laptop. If I grab my iPad it's really only a matter of time before I set it down in favor of my laptop because of the keyboard. As far as using the television to surf the internet, it's really a bad idea unless your tv is the right size for where you are sitting.

Great Janitor: The laptop isn't fading away. I have both a laptop and an iPad. The iPad does have it's uses, but when on Fark, for example, and I'm replying to a post and doing as much typing as I am, a tablet is useless. I hate typing on my ipad and smart phone. Even the Microsoft Surface, that tablet with the keyboard, isn't going to kill the laptop or even the PC.

i get you here, and for some people that is true - but tablets are currently outselling laptops and in the next year or two tablet sales are going to dwarf laptop sales especially as they get more powerful. fact is that most people simply do not need a full fledged computer for what they use a computer for. I personally thought that the iPad was a useless piece of cool tech. I was wrong - much how the iPhone changed the mobile phone market, the iPad has fundamentally changed the computing market.


The biggest problems with tablets are 1) you can't type worth a damn on the tablets. 2) Limited. I remember this debate going back to at least 2000 when it was laptops, phones or PDAs. The only correct part then was the prediction that the phone was going to become more powerful and be able to do more. Now it's Tablet or Laptop. The segment that only wants or needs a tablet is rather small and once they all have tablets, they won't be buying the latest iPad or Surface or what have you. So tablet sells will taper off once those who only need something small for casual use has their tablet. The iPad is not the game changer to the computer market that the iPhone was. It has it's uses, yes. From a business standpoint, it's very limited, and it doesn't have the potential to replace the laptop.
 
2012-12-28 12:55:43 PM

Egoy3k: Earpj: Hmm... I want to get one (once the kids get the x-box out of my living room) for Netflix. Do they do Netflix ok?

This. I helped my mother pick out a TV on boxing day and basically told her that video streaming (like
netflix) is the only real reason for having a smart TV and since she doesn't own an Xbox or PS3 having the smart TV built in would be nice but since she's probably buying a blu-ray player she can probably get one that is network enabled instead of getting the 'smart TV'. As it turns out the TV she wanted had 'Smart TV' anyway but it wasn't factored into her decision.


I would imagine that this is the case for just about everyone. My TV has smart tv and 3d, neither of which I use, it just comes standard on higher end TV's.
 
2012-12-28 01:00:32 PM
I have a smart TV. I only really got it because it had 3 HDMIs, where the non-smart only had two. But, we use it quite a lot:-

1) Lovefilm (like Amazon streaming). Works great
2) BBC iPlayer. Again - great
3) ITV player.
4) It's good for showing awesome YouTube videos. Not very often, but sometimes I'll see something that's great and show it to the kids
5) Curzon cinemas who do indie/arthouse films have a channel where you can watch films like Three Colours Blue.

Yeah, I could attach a PC, but along with DLNA on the TV I don't bother. Smart TV is pretty much "cold, dead hands" for me.
 
2012-12-28 01:00:49 PM

pdieten: Unless you're going to keep your videos on your iToy forever you're SOL. I can't believe Apple doesn't have a storage server in the works that will automatically slurp media off the iToys and stream them back.


iTunes on a computer does that. You can access anything in iTunes on any computer on your network via the AppleTV.
 
2012-12-28 01:06:23 PM

Great Janitor: From a business standpoint, it's very limited, and it doesn't have the potential to replace the laptop.


except that it does and is. The company I work for is and has replaced many laptops already with iPads as have several of the companies we do business with.

Great Janitor: The segment that only wants or needs a tablet is rather small and once they all have tablets, they won't be buying the latest iPad or Surface or what have you.


Except that they do in fact do just that. old outdated iPads get replaced every year or two just like old outdated laptops (even more so if the device is tied to a 3 or 4 G data plan, surprise, Verizon and AT&T will want you on a new device every other year) - and the market for tablets is doing NOTHING but growing. Kids no longer want laptops - the want iPads.

face it - the laptop, while not yet in danger of extinction, is an endangered species.
 
2012-12-28 01:08:09 PM

t3knomanser: pdieten: Unless you're going to keep your videos on your iToy forever you're SOL. I can't believe Apple doesn't have a storage server in the works that will automatically slurp media off the iToys and stream them back.

iTunes on a computer does that. You can access anything in iTunes on any computer on your network via the AppleTV.


"iTunes does that". You might as well just say "stabbing yourself in the eye with a fork does that".
 
2012-12-28 01:10:56 PM
Here's a question... why the FARK isn't Pandora available as an app on PS3/XBOX? If that one app was available on either, I would want for no other appliances (since both already do the the other two apparitions of the Netflix/Amazon Video/Pandora Holy Trinity)

Sure I could fire up the browser on PS3, but I'd rather gouge out my own eyeballs before using that abortion of a browser ever again.

//walled garden is the likely answer
//it has been a few months since I actually looked if I'm honest
 
2012-12-28 01:11:18 PM

GRCooper: "iTunes does that". You might as well just say "stabbing yourself in the eye with a fork does that"


Like I said, people would hate it, but the AppleTV ecosystem handles syncing pretty seamlessly across devices, and it does it transparently. What I do not, and never will understand, is why Apple has not yet figured out how to make iTunes work on Windows. While it's not the best media manager on any platform, on OSX it's at least usable (and better than just dumping things into folders).
 
2012-12-28 01:12:39 PM

t3knomanser: pdieten: Unless you're going to keep your videos on your iToy forever you're SOL. I can't believe Apple doesn't have a storage server in the works that will automatically slurp media off the iToys and stream them back.

iTunes on a computer does that. You can access anything in iTunes on any computer on your network via the AppleTV.


If you remember to (a) save your media to iTunes and (b) leave the computer on. I guess I was thinking something more appliance-ish might be easier. And I'd think that in a house with multiple computers & devices, the fact that home sharing isn't turned on by default could make looking for media a bit confusing.
 
2012-12-28 01:14:33 PM
Personally, I don't think Smart TVs are too hard to use, or as the author states, make it too hard to find what you want to watch. I think it comes down to the horrible user interface virtually all of these TVs and app-enabled bluray players offer (to date). It has little to do with the size of the screen or the distance or even the lack of a keyboard. To me, it all comes down to predictability and responsiveness, two very simple tenants of user interface design that manufacturers and app developers have almost unanimously shiat all over. Maybe it's because they cheaped out on the processors, maybe it's because developers cut too many corners. But, time and time again on just about every tv and bluray player, these apps are frustrating and unstable messes.

This is exactly why I tell friends and family and anybody else that will listen: save your money and get the tv or bluray player that doesn't have "apps", then use those savings to go get a Roku, Apple TV, etc. Not only is that usually the cheaper solution, you get much better user experience and more apps out of those devices. And ultimately if you like the convenience of the apps, you're going to end up getting a Roku or similar media player anyway because the ones on your "smart" device are on the verge of unusable.
 
2012-12-28 01:14:36 PM

Great Janitor: The biggest problems with tablets are 1) you can't type worth a damn on the tablets. 2) Limited. I remember this debate going back to at least 2000 when it was laptops, phones or PDAs. The only correct part then was the prediction that the phone was going to become more powerful and be able to do more. Now it's Tablet or Laptop. The segment that only wants or needs a tablet is rather small and once they all have tablets, they won't be buying the latest iPad or Surface or what have you. So tablet sells will taper off once those who only need something small for casual use has their tablet. The iPad is not the game changer to the computer market that the iPhone was. It has it's uses, yes. From a business standpoint, it's very limited, and it doesn't have the potential to replace the laptop.


It's only a sample of 5, but over half the people I've met that have iPads consider them to be a bit of a waste of money. The other two? I saw them using them at work for about a week or two, then I've not seen them with them.

I know Ultrabooks cost a bit more, but as an investment, a light one will pay off better than a tablet, which are deliberately designed with short lifespans by only giving you a few years of OS updates (WinRT has 3 years of updates compared to 11 years for Windows 7), and then of course, you can pay a small amount for an upgrade of the software.
 
2012-12-28 01:16:38 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Why would I waste a lot of time trying to duplicate capabilities I all ready posses?


This. My PS3 plays all the media I want and does a great job of upscaling DVDs and rendering Netflix streamed video. I thought about hacking a Raspberry Pi to be a little media center, but it would just duplicate the PS3's basic capabilities.
 
2012-12-28 01:17:37 PM
I actually like my smart TV. I understand that Panasonic makes one of the best Smart-TV interfaces, so maybe it's terrible for other models. I originally used the 360, but I hated having to dig out the controller. I don't play console games too much so it's usually at the bottom of the remote bin. Then I switched to a roku and it was great for a while. But the Netflix app for the roku is seriously buggy, and at least once a week you have to reboot the stupid hockey puck because it locks up. Also it's another remote I have to keep track of.

So I got my Panasonic GT-50 and tried out all the apps for it. Pandora is awesome, Netflix is amazing on this TV. Better than the interface for Roku and the XB360 for sure. It's quick, responsive, and was very easy to set up. The best thing is that I can use the same goddamned remote. I hate having to juggle remotes, and the "universal" remotes are even less responsive, and are way too fiddly for my tastes. I just want to push a button to turn the TV, a button to open Netflix, and that's it.
 
2012-12-28 01:21:51 PM

pdieten: If you remember to (a) save your media to iTunes and (b) leave the computer on. I guess I was thinking something more appliance-ish might be easier.


You're absolutely right. The Apple solution is feature complete, but not elegant. They've got all the pieces, and could really put it together if they made their Time Capsule implement an iTunes server protocol.
 
2012-12-28 01:30:00 PM

farkeruk: It's only a sample of 5, but over half the people I've met that have iPads consider them to be a bit of a waste of money. The other two? I saw them using them at work for about a week or two, then I've not seen them with them.


Apple sold 3 MILLION iPads over the weekend that the mini debuted.

Wish I had that kind of money to waste. Point me to even ONE laptop maker that sold even a fraction of that this YEAR.
 
2012-12-28 01:38:02 PM

JustHereForThePics: Here's a question... why the FARK isn't Pandora available as an app on PS3/XBOX? If that one app was available on either, I would want for no other appliances (since both already do the the other two apparitions of the Netflix/Amazon Video/Pandora Holy Trinity)


Just a guess, but on the PS3, it would compete with Sony's music service: Music Unlimited.
 
2012-12-28 01:38:36 PM

frepnog: Great Janitor: From a business standpoint, it's very limited, and it doesn't have the potential to replace the laptop.

except that it does and is. The company I work for is and has replaced many laptops already with iPads as have several of the companies we do business with.


What company do you work for? I have heard of some hospitals giving them to their nursing staff because there they actually make sense. For actual data entry of any form, iPads suck. I do insurance sells and taxes. I can not do taxes on an iPad. I can do some insurance sells on an iPad, but I sell for five different companies. It's easier to have the one program on my laptop that handles all five companies than it is to carry around both the iPad and laptop and use the iPad when processing sells for the two companies that have iPad apps.

The iPad only has two real advantages, it's lightweight and it's battery lasts longer than a laptop battery. That's it. If you're into amateur video editing, sound editing, PC gaming, computer programming, writing, any type of task that requires a spreadsheet, youtube (before you bring this one up, some youtube videos can not be shown on mobile devices), putting music or data onto a flash drive (without an expensive iPad to USB device), running heavy loaded software, then yeah, the iPad is perfect. And the above list is a huge segment of the U.S. population.

Great Janitor: The segment that only wants or needs a tablet is rather small and once they all have tablets, they won't be buying the latest iPad or Surface or what have you.

Except that they do in fact do just that. old outdated iPads get replaced every year or two just like old outdated laptops (even more so if the device is tied to a 3 or 4 G data plan, surprise, Verizon and AT&T will want you on a new device every other year) - and the market for tablets is doing NOTHING but growing. Kids no longer want laptops - the want iPads.

face it - the laptop, while not yet in danger of extinction, is an endangered species.



Yes, iPads get replaced annually when the new model comes out. But that's not all iPad users, that's a small segment that has to have the latest greatest iPad so they look cool and trendy when they go to Starbucks. The people who just need a small device for checking email and updating facebook and NOTHING ELSE, well, that and playing Words with Friends, don't upgrade every time Apple releases the next iPad. Hell, many of those won't upgrade unless someone buys them an iPad for Christmas. Those who aren't huge computer users who just need a simple device to surf the internet and play Words with Friends, aren't going to replace their iPads until they stop working.

The laptop is in no danger of becoming an endangered species.
 
2012-12-28 01:39:12 PM
I've got a WDTV Live Hub and WDTV HD plus and love them. The streaming is nice but the built in hard drive and USB ports are the best part. I have an old laptop setup to download TV shows via Torrents and RSS feeds. They can play almost any video format you can think of and having the simple interface with remote control is nice.
 
2012-12-28 01:52:35 PM

Great Janitor: The laptop is in no danger of becoming an endangered species.


ok.

Tablets Could Outsell Laptops in 2013

Tablets to Outsell Laptops in Q4, Beyond

why-laptop-makers-should-be-focusing-on-tablets-now

Tablets to Outsell Laptops This Black Friday
I realize you love your laptop and all, I loved mine like a fat kid loves cake.

But sticking your head in the sand and singing lalalala does fark all to reality, which is that laptops are fading. most people are going to end up with a main pc type computer hooked up to their HDTV in the living room and they are going to use some form of table for mobile computing.

the future is here, dude, and it is going to be hell on the laptop. there will always be a market for the laptop for gamers and for people that simply need more power or flexibility but the average consumer, that is, MOST of the buying public, just doesn't.
 
2012-12-28 01:54:08 PM

frepnog: table


tablet, I meant.

there, FTFM
 
2012-12-28 01:59:00 PM

pdieten: t3knomanser: pdieten: Unless you're going to keep your videos on your iToy forever you're SOL. I can't believe Apple doesn't have a storage server in the works that will automatically slurp media off the iToys and stream them back.

iTunes on a computer does that. You can access anything in iTunes on any computer on your network via the AppleTV.

If you remember to (a) save your media to iTunes and (b) leave the computer on. I guess I was thinking something more appliance-ish might be easier. And I'd think that in a house with multiple computers & devices, the fact that home sharing isn't turned on by default could make looking for media a bit confusing.


My Mac mini is my iTunes server. I leave it on all the time and it sips electricity. (New ones use even less.) It doesn't get any more appliance-like than that. Not sure how confusing Home Sharing is to turn on, but if it is to you, I can't argue with your experience. I'm semi-geeky, so I use Twonky media server to stream to my PS3 from my Mac mini and use some Tivo hackware (pyTivo, iTivo and Roxio Toast Titanium) to get media off my Tivo and convert it to MP4 so I can access that from my 40GB Tivo HD as well as any of my Apple products.

I've thought about getting an Apple TV to simplify this setup, but it's the devil I know, works well enough, and keeps the cable and device clutter down.
 
2012-12-28 02:11:37 PM

frepnog: Great Janitor: The laptop is in no danger of becoming an endangered species.

ok.

Tablets Could Outsell Laptops in 2013

Tablets to Outsell Laptops in Q4, Beyond

why-laptop-makers-should-be-focusing-on-tablets-now

Tablets to Outsell Laptops This Black Friday
I realize you love your laptop and all, I loved mine like a fat kid loves cake.

But sticking your head in the sand and singing lalalala does fark all to reality, which is that laptops are fading. most people are going to end up with a main pc type computer hooked up to their HDTV in the living room and they are going to use some form of table for mobile computing.

the future is here, dude, and it is going to be hell on the laptop. there will always be a market for the laptop for gamers and for people that simply need more power or flexibility but the average consumer, that is, MOST of the buying public, just doesn't.


I'm far from sticking my head in the sand on this issue. Again, I use both and while a laptop can do what a tablet does, a tablet can not do what a laptop does, and the tablet is not going to kill the laptop. Not going to happen. The two exist is completely separate niches. Saying that tablets are set to outsell laptops makes as much sense as saying cars are set to outsell bicycles.

The buying public right now is buying tablets, but that's not going to be a market that will always be as lucrative as it is now. Once it's saturated, you could very well start to see laptop sells improve. The average consumer isn't going to take long to realize that while the tablet is nice, they are going to need a real keyboard at some point. They are going to realize that if they want to have actual use from the MP3 player, that they are going to need a computer. They are going to realize they are going to need an actual computer, and when that happens, laptop sells will improve.
 
2012-12-28 02:19:12 PM

Great Janitor: Again, I use both and while a laptop can do what a tablet does, a tablet can not do what a laptop does, and the tablet is not going to kill the laptop. Not going to happen. The two exist is completely separate niches. Saying that tablets are set to outsell laptops makes as much sense as saying cars are set to outsell bicycles.


a tablet is nothing more than a mobile computer. it (a tablet) is for all intents and purposes, a laptop with the keyboard removed. the two not only share the exact same niche, one is currently beating the other to death in that niche no matter how much you may thing otherwise. It isn't a fad; it is a paradigm shift.

Great Janitor: They are going to realize they are going to need an actual computer, and when that happens, laptop sells will improve.


nope. they will likely ALREADY HAVE some sort of pc that stays at home and fills the need. Laptop sales are in decline, and are going to do nothing BUT decline to the point when in a few years, there will be likely only a few companies that even bother making them anymore. Hell, Dell has already gutted their laptop division. HP is not going to be far behind.
 
2012-12-28 02:29:30 PM

aka_mrcam: I've got a WDTV Live Hub and WDTV HD plus and love them. The streaming is nice but the built in hard drive and USB ports are the best part. I have an old laptop setup to download TV shows via Torrents and RSS feeds. They can play almost any video format you can think of and having the simple interface with remote control is nice.


Count me as another fan of the WD TV Live Hub. I used to use my PS3 for media streaming, but with my WD box I now use Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll and MLB.TV without having to boot up the PS3. Plus the fact that I can encode my DVD and Blu-ray discs as multi-audio/multi-subtitle MKVs and upload them to the box and play them natively is great. Really, the only thing I've tried to play on it that it can't deal with is Hi10P (10bit) encoded videos.
 
2012-12-28 02:38:31 PM

frepnog: But sticking your head in the sand and singing lalalala does fark all to reality, which is that laptops are fading. most people are going to end up with a main pc type computer hooked up to their HDTV in the living room and they are going to use some form of table for mobile computing.

the future is here, dude, and it is going to be hell on the laptop. there will always be a market for the laptop for gamers and for people that simply need more power or flexibility but the average consumer, that is, MOST of the buying public, just doesn't.


Show me someone that makes money from a tablet. And not some boss that happens to have an iPad, but a boss that told IT to throw his laptop out and is solely using a tablet. Show me how many people are solely running on an iPad at home, because I know 1 person that is (a co-worker's old dad). Everyone else I know with a tablet or who knows people with a tablet also has a PC.

The reason tablets are selling more is that everyone has a laptop they want, and tablets are the trendy gift for the affluent. Give it a few years after the fad has passed and laptops will be selling more.
 
2012-12-28 02:42:30 PM
Got an xbox, two computers and a laptop in my house that can do anything a smart TV would do, and roommate has a 1tb passport drive filled with movies and weird documentaries that we can just plug into the usb port on the TV. Don't need a roku or smart TV.
 
2012-12-28 02:43:08 PM

frepnog: Great Janitor: Again, I use both and while a laptop can do what a tablet does, a tablet can not do what a laptop does, and the tablet is not going to kill the laptop. Not going to happen. The two exist is completely separate niches. Saying that tablets are set to outsell laptops makes as much sense as saying cars are set to outsell bicycles.

a tablet is nothing more than a mobile computer. it (a tablet) is for all intents and purposes, a laptop with the keyboard removed. the two not only share the exact same niche, one is currently beating the other to death in that niche no matter how much you may thing otherwise. It isn't a fad; it is a paradigm shift.


Wrong. Look at a PC, then look at an iPad. Look at any tablet then look at any laptop. If you think they are the same, minus a keyboard, you're an idiot. Of course, that might also explain why you think that tablets can kill the laptop. There is really nothing that I can think of that I can do on a PC that I can not do on a laptop. That is not true for tablets. For one thing, tablets can not run .exe programs. There is no paradigm shift, as you say there is because the tablet can not replace the laptop. It can not be done.

Great Janitor: They are going to realize they are going to need an actual computer, and when that happens, laptop sells will improve.

nope. they will likely ALREADY HAVE some sort of pc that stays at home and fills the need. Laptop sales are in decline, and are going to do nothing BUT decline to the point when in a few years, there will be likely only a few companies that even bother making them anymore. Hell, Dell has already gutted their laptop division. HP is not going to be far behind.



Dell computers suck anyways. My wife bought a Dell, I told her not to. Damn thing never worked more than a month. HP isn't much better. The laptop market will shrink, yes, but not to the point that you are predicting. One company gutting their laptop division means nothing.

Again, let me repeat this, and I'm typing it slowly so you can read it, tablets are not going to kill the laptop, they are only going to be replaced by laptop users who don't need anything beyond surfing the internet and netflix. For everyone else, that is, the majority of the population, laptops are going to remain. Companies like Dell which decide to switch from laptops to tablets means nothing beyond that there is going to be one more tablet maker and one less laptop maker. That's it. And it doesn't mean that this is a shift from laptop to tablet. That means that Dell would rather take a slice from the pie that is the tablet market instead of taking a slice from both the laptop and tablet pie.
 
hej
2012-12-28 02:43:10 PM
TV's that stream video from the net without needing a separate box are actually pretty awesome. It's playing content from cable or over the air that I could give a damn about. Give me a remote without all the 0-9/guide/last channel/etc. buttons and I'd be much happier.
 
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