The preference of paying ransom instead of killing the pirates needs to stop.  I guess I'm being callous when I say we should always go in guns a-blazing because in the long run it will save more lives once the pirates learn that there is no profit in their trade.  I'm also in favor of high seas justice involving hanging from the yardarm.

OgreMagi: The preference of paying ransom instead of killing the pirates needs to stop.  I guess I'm being callous when I say we should always go in guns a-blazing because in the long run it will save more lives once the pirates learn that there is no profit in their trade.  I'm also in favor of high seas justice involving hanging from the yardarm.

I will also bear the burden of being the person who says not to negotiate with pirates. I'm sorry your stuck in a hellhole, but we aren't going to let those pirates get what they want.

Something should've been done to facilitate a rescue operation though.

cgraves67: OgreMagi: The preference of paying ransom instead of killing the pirates needs to stop.  I guess I'm being callous when I say we should always go in guns a-blazing because in the long run it will save more lives once the pirates learn that there is no profit in their trade.  I'm also in favor of high seas justice involving hanging from the yardarm.

I will also bear the burden of being the person who says not to negotiate with pirates. I'm sorry your stuck in a hellhole, but we aren't going to let those pirates get what they want.

Something should've been done to facilitate a rescue operation though.

I'm thinking that after a year, the pirates would have let their guard down so much a seal team could have taken them out without breaking a sweat.  Hell, a bunch of seals in training could have done it as a training operation.  Somalian pirates aren't exactly high grade soldiers.

cgraves67: OgreMagi: The preference of paying ransom instead of killing the pirates needs to stop.  I guess I'm being callous when I say we should always go in guns a-blazing because in the long run it will save more lives once the pirates learn that there is no profit in their trade.  I'm also in favor of high seas justice involving hanging from the yardarm.

I will also bear the burden of being the person who says not to negotiate with pirates. I'm sorry your stuck in a hellhole, but we aren't going to let those pirates get what they want.

Something should've been done to facilitate a rescue operation though.

Trouble is, a lot of these ships have traveled through or are inside Somali territorial waters. For years, international companies have been destructively harvesting Somail fisheries and illegally dumping toxic waste on the Somali coast. We created this problem by behaving lawlessly in that area and now we complain when the area becomes lawless.

It makes us feel good to describe the pirate as vicious murders and thieves, born rotten, but many of them simply have no other options due to our (The Developed World's)actions either wholly or in part.

How dare they say that squeezing boobs doesn't cure cancer

Step 1: Get myself a yacht
Step 2: Gather NRA Types
Step 3: Pirate Shooting Charters
Step 4: $$$

The article is probably right that if the crew were Westerners, something would have been done sooner. Unfortunately that is simply because Western nations are more efficient and powerful and care for their nationals more. If you come from a weak nation and work for a company in a country noteworthy for their chauvanistic disdain of outsiders, one cannot expect much help from either.

threadjackistan: cgraves67: OgreMagi: The preference of paying ransom instead of killing the pirates needs to stop.  I guess I'm being callous when I say we should always go in guns a-blazing because in the long run it will save more lives once the pirates learn that there is no profit in their trade.  I'm also in favor of high seas justice involving hanging from the yardarm.

I will also bear the burden of being the person who says not to negotiate with pirates. I'm sorry your stuck in a hellhole, but we aren't going to let those pirates get what they want.

Something should've been done to facilitate a rescue operation though.

Trouble is, a lot of these ships have traveled through or are inside Somali territorial waters. For years, international companies have been destructively harvesting Somail fisheries and illegally dumping toxic waste on the Somali coast. We created this problem by behaving lawlessly in that area and now we complain when the area becomes lawless.

It makes us feel good to describe the pirate as vicious murders and thieves, born rotten, but many of them simply have no other options due to our (The Developed World's)actions either wholly or in part.

1 - Piracy is an ancient practice in Somalia which far pre-dates the industrial age.

2 - The excuse that Piracy is a result of overfishing and industrial waste is posited by the pirates themselves who are not an unimpeachable source. Piracy is VERY lucrative for them and that is the real reason.

3 - Assuming overfishing and pollution are the root cause, who exactly are you blaming? Who is "we"? Do you imagine that American, European and Japanese are dumping waste or overfishing? Illegal international destructive overfishing is notably done by Russians and Chinese. I'd like to see any evidence of dumping and if there is, who is it likely to be? The Developed world has very strong laws against that sort of thing and there is plenty of industry elsewhere.

Fano: Let Julius Caesar do the talking

Indeed, The only real way to deal with piracy is to find their home bases and destroy them on land. No one really has a strong enough interest in bothering.

This might actualy be job for mercenaries hired by shipping companies.

Part of the problem is the ship in Panamanian flagged. If you're on a US flagged ship, the USN will pay attention. If you're on a Panamanian flagged vessel, don't hold your breath waiting for the Panamanian Navy to swoop in.

threadjackistan: Trouble is, a lot of these ships have traveled through or are inside Somali territorial waters.

And a lot of them aren't. I don't think Somali waters extend 500 miles out.

Yes, yes, they're were pirates in the area in ancient times. Obviously Somalis are nothing but brute pirates, since times immemorial.

Pollution, over fishing? Why that's all done by those dirty Russians and devious Red China-men. We would never casually engage in these sorts of activities. Afterall, they are forbidden in our territorial waters, why would we go elsewhere to do it?

Pull your head out of your ass.

I'm not saying that all the Somalians are blessed little angels, but seriously? You want to blame everything on dirty furiners?

I dont know what else I was expecting...

Poundit Hardus: Step 1: Get myself a yacht
Step 2: Gather NRA Types
Step 3: Pirate Shooting Charters
Step 4: $$$

Article One Section 8 of the United States Constitution

The Congress shall have power To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

letters of marque

1.license to seize foreign property: a formal document issued by one country authorizing one of its private citizens to take possession of goods, or sometimes citizens, belonging to another country
2.license to arm ship: an official document issued by one country authorizing one of its citizens to fit a ship with weapons in order to attack or seize another country's ships and cargo

The ship's owner, Weyland-Yutani, apparently just decided to do nothing and let the crew rot.

LargeCanine: The article is probably right that if the crew were Westerners, something would have been done sooner. Unfortunately that is simply because Western nations are more efficient and powerful and care for their nationals more. If you come from a weak nation and work for a company in a country noteworthy for their chauvanistic disdain of outsiders, one cannot expect much help from either.

Indeed, it is a tactic I often see employed in various situations. "But if I was X then Y would have done so." With X often being a group who you don't like and blame for a lot of crap until you need them for something. And as the article states, countries are not likely to risk their own people to safe foreigners. While this might make the international force seem like a paper tiger, this is not the case. Information lovingly provided by wiki states the following:

Combined Maritime Forces Participants: Australia, Bahrain, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Republic of Korea, Kuwait, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Malaysia, Pakistan, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Thailand, Turkey, UAE, UK, US.

Victims: six Indians, nine Yemenis, four Ghanaians, two Sudanese, two Pakistanis and one Filipino

India, Yemen, Sudan, the Philippines and Ghana have no right to demand anything if they do not contribute. Only Pakistan has a valid claim to aid from the task force. If the family wants the task force to do something they should get their government to contribute, even if it is just paying for part of the operational costs.

Won' t post a link, but you should see how the Russians handle pirates. They capture everyone on the boat, te thei rhands together, back off and then sink the boat.

threadjackistan: Yes, yes, they're were pirates in the area in ancient times. Obviously Somalis are nothing but brute pirates, since times immemorial.

Pollution, over fishing? Why that's all done by those dirty Russians and devious Red China-men. We would never casually engage in these sorts of activities. Afterall, they are forbidden in our territorial waters, why would we go elsewhere to do it?

Pull your head out of your ass.

I'm not saying that all the Somalians are blessed little angels, but seriously? You want to blame everything on dirty furiners?

I dont know what else I was expecting...

You are the one laying blame.

If you are truly interested:
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htseamo/20120410.aspx
That will get you started on educationg yourself about the Somali pirate situation.

If you want to stop the problem arm the ships. Have traned mercenaries & sharpshooters onboard. I know the argument, that will just cause the Somalian pirates to escalate their attacks and make them more severe. Just do the same with the ships. I am sure the shipping companies have more access to better weapons and countermeasures than the pirates.

threadjackistan: Trouble is, a lot of these ships have traveled through or are inside Somali territorial waters. For years, international companies have been destructively harvesting Somail fisheries and illegally dumping toxic waste on the Somali coast. We created this problem by behaving lawlessly in that area and now we complain when the area becomes lawless.

It makes us feel good to describe the pirate as vicious murders and thieves, born rotten, but many of them simply have no other options due to our (The Developed World's)actions either wholly or in part.

ADM shuts down the local mill and therefore I didn't have a job so I had to rob that store to get money and the cashier tried to stop me and was shot. It's ADM's fault that the cashier was killed right?

heavymetal: If you want to stop the problem arm the ships. Have traned mercenaries & sharpshooters onboard. I know the argument, that will just cause the Somalian pirates to escalate their attacks and make them more severe. Just do the same with the ships. I am sure the shipping companies have more access to better weapons and countermeasures than the pirates.

You wont have free passage through a lot of territorial waters with armed men aboard.

Its Dubai-based owner, who appears not to have been insured, refused to pay a ransom for it and simply went to ground, ignoring pleas for help from the hostages' families.



Their mistake was thinking arabs had souls and cared about things like human life.

ClavellBCMI: And a lot of those attacks are in or near waters controlled by our old anti-terrorist friends Yemen, back before the brave ex-President of Yemen decided his health was more important than taking bribes and oppressing his own citizens (after someone fired an RPG through the doors of the mosque he was in, damn near killing him and actually killing his Prime Minister and a few of his other top aides).

Going through that patch of water doesn't leave a lot of choice. It's only about 300 miles wide.
You can either cruise near Somalia, or cruise near Yemen.

while keeping a armed group of people on the ships at all times would prevent your ship form entering most countries waters. I am surprised someone hasn't setup something up where on both sides of the area(outside of the danger zone) are ships with teams of armed/trained personal. when your ship gets near you pick up a team with all their weapsons. they stay with your ship until you pass though the area and drop them off on the other side.

jumac: while keeping a armed group of people on the ships at all times would prevent your ship form entering most countries waters. I am surprised someone hasn't setup something up where on both sides of the area(outside of the danger zone) are ships with teams of armed/trained personal. when your ship gets near you pick up a team with all their weapsons. they stay with your ship until you pass though the area and drop them off on the other side.

They have.

OgreMagi: The preference of paying ransom instead of killing the pirates needs to stop.  I guess I'm being callous when I say we should always go in guns a-blazing because in the long run it will save more lives once the pirates learn that there is no profit in their trade.  I'm also in favor of high seas justice involving hanging from the yardarm.

The preference of paying ransom should continue.
It should be followed up very shortly with a raid to recover the money.

This isn't rocket science.