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(The Daily Caller)   Perfect Citizen, your computer has been probed by the NSA. No bits to see here, MOV along   ( dailycaller.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, NSA, private network, Electronic Privacy Information Center, computers  
•       •       •

4275 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Dec 2012 at 5:58 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



68 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2012-12-27 03:36:32 PM  
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
 
2012-12-27 03:52:30 PM  
So here's something funny... when they say "domestic computer systems" they're not talking about your eMachines running Windows ME. They're talking about critical computer systems.

It goes something like this... One day China, Iran or someone else will attack our power grid, our banking system, and other critical things that allow this country to run. With the current state of network security, they could cause serious damage.

Since the DoD, NSA, and every other govt agency has been talking about this for years, people would be up in arms that "nothing was done" to stop a $5tril attack on the US.

On the other hand, if the NSA or other agency does try to do something about it, or at least learn more about which areas are most vulnerable, people are up in arms about their privacy being violated.

I know in a perfect world all these corporations and state/public entities would protect their systems. But this isn't a perfect world. Their systems are vulnerable, and unfortunately that affects all of us. If this were some e-commerce site that had problems, no one would give a sh*t. F*ck em, let em burn. But we're talking about the power grid. Companies that leave open holes and allow the power grid to be at risk. It's a little different.
 
2012-12-27 04:41:00 PM  
Actually, it sounds like a really good idea to do penetration testing on critical control systems. I'm glad to see this is being done.
 
2012-12-27 05:56:18 PM  
Not clicking. What's the Faily Caller derping about this time?
 
2012-12-27 06:02:31 PM  
Of the 190 pages obtained by EPIC about the program, 98 were heavily redacted for a number of reasons, including portions labeled "classified top secret."

So... sounds like the penetration testing revealed some pretty significant vulnerabilities, which can now be patched.

Why is this supposed to be an outrage again? This is how computer security has worked forever. I'd kind of prefer if the DNS servers and the Pentagon and so on were secure from random third-party attacks, thanks.
 
2012-12-27 06:05:43 PM  
This is not ne*************Carrier Lost**************
 
2012-12-27 06:06:49 PM  
Those aren't my donkeys.
 
2012-12-27 06:06:58 PM  
make me some tea: Actually, it sounds like a really good idea to do penetration testing on critical control systems. I'm glad to see this is being done.

pffft, I've been getting intimate with my computer for years.
 
2012-12-27 06:09:43 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Of the 190 pages obtained by EPIC about the program, 98 were heavily redacted for a number of reasons, including portions labeled "classified top secret."

So... sounds like the penetration testing revealed some pretty significant vulnerabilities, which can now be patched.

Why is this supposed to be an outrage again? This is how computer security has worked forever. I'd kind of prefer if the DNS servers and the Pentagon and so on were secure from random third-party attacks, thanks.


Yeah for once it sounds like the NSA is being sneaky for all the right reasons.
 
2012-12-27 06:21:14 PM  

themindiswatching: Segmentation fault (core dumped)


www.gdargaud.net
 
2012-12-27 06:29:06 PM  
nmap.org
Wait? So, this is "secret NSA tests"?
 
2012-12-27 06:29:43 PM  
Meh. I miss all hot SEX instructions I got to code on the Motorola 6809E .
 
2012-12-27 06:35:43 PM  
So cancel your internet, paranoiacs.  You can still watch Fox News on TV (hell, AM radio is all you really need), and the rest of the internet doesn't need to read your drivel.

Two birds with one stone.
 
2012-12-27 06:48:24 PM  
The secret program, dubbed Perfect Citizen, is part of an effort by the government to improve security systems in the private sector and test offensive operations against enemies' computer system

imokwiththis.jpg
 
2012-12-27 06:50:11 PM  
Its funny that most people have zero problem with cooperation's recording browser history, putting tacking cookies in and all sorts of shady things even willfully putting in anti-virus ware that scans your computer and sends results to the company that makes it.

But the big bad ol govt? Nope!

Not saying its right. We got duped into living in a surveilled society for for the false feeling of security by both the govt and market. But a boot in your neck is still a boot no matter if its from the government or cooperate
 
2012-12-27 06:50:36 PM  
Y'all know that the NSA wrote the book on trusted computing systems, right?

No, really. They wrote The Orange Book, and they are *the* authority within the US on such things, they set the standards and *they do consulting when asked*.

Also, the first rule of security testing is... You don't talk about security testing. So yes. Secret testing.
 
2012-12-27 06:52:58 PM  

ultraholland: make me some tea: Actually, it sounds like a really good idea to do penetration testing on critical control systems. I'm glad to see this is being done.

pffft, I've been getting intimate with my computer for years.


HOT
 
2012-12-27 06:58:18 PM  
Somebody at the NSA saw Live Free or Die Hard and asked, "Wait, should we make sure no one can actually do that?"

But yeah, intrusion testing of your nation's infrastructure does sound like a good idea.
 
2012-12-27 07:11:50 PM  
The system should at least try to protect itself. How is this a surprise to anyone? Oh yeah, it isn't.
 
2012-12-27 07:15:04 PM  

ItchyMcDoogle: But a boot in your neck is still a boot no matter if its from the government or cooperate


Difference: corporations don't have subpoena powers.

Also: maybe don't rely so heavily on spellcheck.
 
2012-12-27 07:18:12 PM  
Did they do it with this?
 
2012-12-27 07:20:01 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
Chopped for size, I meant this!
 
2012-12-27 07:29:18 PM  

MetaCarpal: Somebody at the NSA saw Live Free or Die Hard and asked, "Wait, should we make sure no one can actually do that?"

But yeah, intrusion testing of your nation's infrastructure does sound like a good idea.


And certainly, we can trust that this is precisely what the $91M is being spent on, that there will be no mission creep beyond helping out Jimmy Citizen like a good neighbor since, after all, the NSA has proven to be absolutely trustworthy.

Nah, bullshiat.

What this means is, the NSA has been doing this already without the benefit of legality, and wants to expand out in a way that can no longer be easily hidden. This is the first step to leveraging retroactive legalization. They announce that they're giving chocolate ponies to everyone, and it's not like the citizenry can tell them "no" or anything. After an appropriate pause, they sign documents making it all legal, and extraordinarily expensive to overturn.

Our nation's mangers of infrastructure should be overwhelmingly encouraged to obtain intrusion testing and certification from a private industry or non-profit specializing in the service. It should not be left up to the government's technothugs who elbow their way into the role.
 
2012-12-27 07:37:40 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: So here's something funny... when they say "domestic computer systems" they're not talking about your eMachines running Windows ME. They're talking about critical computer systems.

It goes something like this... One day China, Iran or someone else will attack our power grid, our banking system, and other critical things that allow this country to run. With the current state of network security, they could cause serious damage.

Since the DoD, NSA, and every other govt agency has been talking about this for years, people would be up in arms that "nothing was done" to stop a $5tril attack on the US.

On the other hand, if the NSA or other agency does try to do something about it, or at least learn more about which areas are most vulnerable, people are up in arms about their privacy being violated.

I know in a perfect world all these corporations and state/public entities would protect their systems. But this isn't a perfect world. Their systems are vulnerable, and unfortunately that affects all of us. If this were some e-commerce site that had problems, no one would give a sh*t. F*ck em, let em burn. But we're talking about the power grid. Companies that leave open holes and allow the power grid to be at risk. It's a little different.


Your argument wouldn't be full of shiat if the NSA did something other than illegally collect information. Corporations and public entities don't get a post it note from Big Sis telling them how their system is open to compromise.
 
2012-12-27 07:49:42 PM  
I hope the NSA enjoyed the new porn I downloaded last night.

/bets Tucker "Bow Tie Wearing Dick" Carlson was just as vigiliant about possible rights violations during the Bush administration
//to repeat: Tucker Carlson is a dick
 
2012-12-27 08:01:25 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-27 08:07:31 PM  

maxheck: Y'all know that the NSA wrote the book on trusted computing systems, right?

No, really. They wrote The Orange Book, and they are *the* authority within the US on such things, they set the standards and *they do consulting when asked*.

Also, the first rule of security testing is... You don't talk about security testing. So yes. Secret testing.


Yeah, but did they write the Ugly Red Book that Won't Fit On a Shelf?
 
2012-12-27 08:14:41 PM  

lokis_mentor: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]


I know what you're saying. I had to pay a guy $500 add the any key to my keyboard. I'm surprised more people don't get pissed off about this. None of the computers I see at the store have one. M$ really likes to screw over it's users.
 
2012-12-27 08:17:11 PM  

1derful: Cubansaltyballs: So here's something funny... when they say "domestic computer systems" they're not talking about your eMachines running Windows ME. They're talking about critical computer systems.

It goes something like this... One day China, Iran or someone else will attack our power grid, our banking system, and other critical things that allow this country to run. With the current state of network security, they could cause serious damage.

Since the DoD, NSA, and every other govt agency has been talking about this for years, people would be up in arms that "nothing was done" to stop a $5tril attack on the US.

On the other hand, if the NSA or other agency does try to do something about it, or at least learn more about which areas are most vulnerable, people are up in arms about their privacy being violated.

I know in a perfect world all these corporations and state/public entities would protect their systems. But this isn't a perfect world. Their systems are vulnerable, and unfortunately that affects all of us. If this were some e-commerce site that had problems, no one would give a sh*t. F*ck em, let em burn. But we're talking about the power grid. Companies that leave open holes and allow the power grid to be at risk. It's a little different.

Your argument wouldn't be full of shiat if the NSA did something other than illegally collect information. Corporations and public entities don't get a post it note from Big Sis telling them how their system is open to compromise.


Um, no, Senior Salty Balls is right. We now live in a world where politics is dead and it's every man for himself. This NSA tribe is only collecting the electronic finger prints you leave behind. Why shouldn't they? It's there. Don't like it? Go offline.
 
2012-12-27 09:24:19 PM  
Oh good. For a minute there I thought somebody might have submitted a slightly accurate headline on the politics tab.

I guess we dodged that bullet.
 
2012-12-27 09:32:29 PM  
On this particular front, I'm far more worried about Google, Facebook and MS. I guess if the NSA really wants to throw themselves against the firewalls on the occupy websites I run and help me with pentesting they're welcome to?
 
2012-12-27 09:33:10 PM  

Surool: Oh good. For a minute there I thought somebody might have submitted a slightly accurate headline on the politics tab.

I guess we dodged that bullet.


That is something I am sure we will never have to worry about.
 
2012-12-27 10:10:38 PM  
I hope they enjoyed the porn...
 
2012-12-27 10:12:21 PM  

discount sushi: I hope they enjoyed the porn...


shiat...the NSA knows I like goth/punk girls with big tits...I'M RUINED!!!
 
2012-12-27 10:19:39 PM  
The NSA can choke on a bowl of dicks.
 
2012-12-27 10:41:36 PM  
To all the NSA analysts out there who may read my emails, I offer my sympathies. Your life sucks if you are reduced to reading my shiat. You will never get that time back. To the advanced algorithms that consider whether to pass me and my communications on to analysts, I salute you, and look forward to being ruled by your hyper-intelligent AI descendants.
 
2012-12-27 10:48:55 PM  
Considering that we still haven't patched the vulnerability in our drone software, I don't have particularly high hopes for this leading anywhere useful.
 
2012-12-27 10:57:31 PM  

maxheck: Y'all know that the NSA wrote the book on trusted computing systems, right?

No, really. They wrote The Orange Book, and they are *the* authority within the US on such things, they set the standards and *they do consulting when asked*.

Also, the first rule of security testing is... You don't talk about security testing. So yes. Secret testing.


This seems like red/blue teaming with an unfortunate operation name. And yeah, vulnerabilities found on critical infrastructure would probably rate the redact treatment... But let's not get in the way of the Daily Caller's alarmist nonsense.
 
2012-12-27 10:59:11 PM  
I don't see this anywhere in teh constitution and i'm a single-issue voter!
 
2012-12-27 11:15:00 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: So here's something funny... when they say "domestic computer systems" they're not talking about your eMachines running Windows ME. They're talking about critical computer systems.


Shh- you get the paranoid crowd upset when you tell them the truth- that they really aren't that important.

There's a line somewhere on the continuum between "the government knows everything, and will stop at nothing to suppress it" and "Alex Jones (or similar) knows the truth about the government. Read these sites" where the crazed bunch should realize they don't matter.
 
2012-12-27 11:36:01 PM  

MJMaloney187: Um, no, Senior Salty Balls is right. We now live in a world where politics is dead and it's every man for himself. This NSA tribe is only collecting the electronic finger prints you leave behind. Why shouldn't they? It's there. Don't like it? Go offline.


The reality is, the NSA is tasked with securing the .com namespace, while DoD and others are in charge of .gov, .mil, etc. Typically the NSA doesn't give two sh*ts about one website or another's security or lack thereof, they really only care about things that are relevant to national security.

The inter-connectivity of the internet and key national/public/private infrastructure makes certain things relevant to national security. For example, if the power grid is attacked and falls to foreign cyber criminals, the ability for the nation to defend itself is severely hindered. Can't dispatch planes to protect the nation because refineries will be offline, no jet fuel, etc. Commerce immediately stops when the nation has no power. All those things make the nation vulnerable to a myriad of attacks... hence the term "national security"

I know the standard talking point... that it's more important to let corporations do what they please without regard to the "bigger picture", because the doctrine of the church of libertarianism requires unyielding faith in the belief that if left to their own devices corporations will always do what's right. The religious doctrine of libertarianism requires that belief to be infallible, because if it were proven wrong, as it often is, allowing private corps to do act without regulation opens the possibility of allowing catastrophic damage to the nation because protecting the infrastructure that allows it to exist as it does, would require a govt agency pen testing a private corporation's computer systems.
 
2012-12-28 12:52:55 AM  

Austinoftx: MetaCarpal: Somebody at the NSA saw Live Free or Die Hard and asked, "Wait, should we make sure no one can actually do that?"

But yeah, intrusion testing of your nation's infrastructure does sound like a good idea.

And certainly, we can trust that this is precisely what the $91M is being spent on, that there will be no mission creep beyond helping out Jimmy Citizen like a good neighbor since, after all, the NSA has proven to be absolutely trustworthy.

Nah, bullshiat.

What this means is, the NSA has been doing this already without the benefit of legality, and wants to expand out in a way that can no longer be easily hidden. This is the first step to leveraging retroactive legalization. They announce that they're giving chocolate ponies to everyone, and it's not like the citizenry can tell them "no" or anything. After an appropriate pause, they sign documents making it all legal, and extraordinarily expensive to overturn.

Our nation's mangers of infrastructure should be overwhelmingly encouraged to obtain intrusion testing and certification from a private industry or non-profit specializing in the service. It should not be left up to the government's technothugs who elbow their way into the role.


I'd rather it was the government's technothugs, who are at least subject to FOIA and other laws that can at least theoretically be used to make them 'fess up to what they're doing, than Joe Anonymous who says he's working for a non-profit white-hat agency this week, but who may or may not have been black-hat hacking only yesterday, collecting credit card numbers for his buddies down at Sketchycarders.com.

There are, believe it or not, more criminals out in the world than there are in the government, and fewer constraints on them. Our "nation's managers" as you quaintly call them, are not driven by a desire to protect themselves from foreign intrusion; they are driven by profit margins and a need to get shiat done as quickly and painlessly as possible and ideally without pissing off too many of their overseas clients. I would not trust a manager of, say So Cal Edison, who has obligations to an overseas oil company, to get a cyberintrusion test which shows his system might be vulnerable to hackers based in Taiwan, to be either honest to the government about weaknesses OR get those holes plugged in a timely fashion if it might piss off his Taiwanese investors.
 
2012-12-28 01:11:10 AM  
For the last time... the government is not spying on you.

You are not that damn interesting.
 
2012-12-28 01:37:03 AM  
Considering how much effort the Chicom puts into its cyberwarfare against the US I am ok with this.

Shop wal-mart. Burn a Walton kid for Christmas next time fools.
 
2012-12-28 01:56:15 AM  
Well this is from the daily caller so I'm assuming it's not true.
 
2012-12-28 02:44:16 AM  
Here's the original, less trolly CNET article for anyone who doesn't want to click on the Fail-y Crawler link and contribute to the bow tied wanker's ad revenue:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57560644-93/revealed-nsa-targeting- do mestic-computer-systems-in-secret-test/
 
2012-12-28 02:45:27 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Austinoftx:
Our nation's mangers of infrastructure should be overwhelmingly encouraged to obtain intrusion testing and certification from a private industry or non-profit specializing in the service. It should not be left up to the government's technothugs who elbow their way into the role.

I'd rather it was the government's technothugs, who are at least subject to FOIA and other laws that can at least theoretically be used to make them 'fess up to what they're doing, than Joe Anonymous who says he's working for a non-profit white-hat agency this week, but who may or may not have been black-hat hacking only yesterday, collecting credit card numbers for his buddies down at Sketchycarders.com.

There are, believe it or not, more criminals out in the world than there are in the government, and fewer constraints on them. Our "nation's managers" as you quaintly call them, are not driven by a desire to protect themselves from foreign intrusion; they are driven by profit margins and a need to get shiat done as quickly and painlessly as possible and id ...


No. When private and corporate criminals act against the best interests and wishes of the citizens, they run the risk of being punished. A criminal practice doesn't get legalized simply because the criminal finds it beneficial, though sometimes it does seem that way. Even then, it doesn't make it right. They may have ways to keep operating in violation of the law, but their actions remain illegal.

But the government's acronym bureaus don't get punished. When government entities like the NSA act against the best interests and wishes of the citizens, the goalpost gets moved. The government always finds a way to let them keep operating. The law gets changed to protect their secret interests. Missions creep. The FOIA applies only when the government graciously permits it. Civil rights get warped beyond recognition. The NSA's track record brilliantly illustrates why they are the worst possible choice. They're meant for spooking government networks and foreign nations, and should leave domestic matters to domestic entities who don't enjoy unlimited protection from prosecution for abuse.
 
2012-12-28 02:50:29 AM  

Empty Matchbook: discount sushi: I hope they enjoyed the porn...

shiat...the NSA knows I like goth/punk girls with big tits...I'M RUINED!!!


The NSA would be truly entertained by the size and scope of my Panoptikos folders alone.


/Right there with ya..
 
2012-12-28 02:58:08 AM  

Austinoftx: And certainly, we can trust that this is precisely what the $91M is being spent on, that there will be no mission creep beyond helping out Jimmy Citizen like a good neighbor since, after all, the NSA has proven to be absolutely trustworthy.


Nothing gathered from this would be admissible in court, neither probable cause nor exigent circumstance applies as the searches are more or less random, not targeted, and the files aren't in the electronic equivalent of 'plain view'.

Or are you worried about people knowing about your stuff in the first place? Because if that's your concern, I have some bad news for you, dude. Everyone already knows. Yes, even your grandma.
 
2012-12-28 03:54:32 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Austinoftx: And certainly, we can trust that this is precisely what the $91M is being spent on, that there will be no mission creep beyond helping out Jimmy Citizen like a good neighbor since, after all, the NSA has proven to be absolutely trustworthy.

Nothing gathered from this would be admissible in court, neither probable cause nor exigent circumstance applies as the searches are more or less random, not targeted, and the files aren't in the electronic equivalent of 'plain view'.

Or are you worried about people knowing about your stuff in the first place? Because if that's your concern, I have some bad news for you, dude. Everyone already knows. Yes, even your grandma.


Whether or not grandma knows I humped a girl on her living room rug has nothing to do with letting an untrustworthy government agency expand it's scope. The arguments are unconnected. It is a straw man.

The NSA operates out of sight of the people and the courts. They do not wait obediently for a court to legalize their use of information they have vacuumed up. Their assurances of privacy are less meaningful than business promises from the mob.
 
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