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(Chron)   Bellaire officer and bystander killed in shooting. Carlton is dancing with less vigor these days   (chron.com) divider line 49
    More: Sad, Bellaire, Bellaire Police Department  
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4132 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Dec 2012 at 8:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
 
2012-12-27 05:02:57 PM  
chickenpotspy.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-27 05:03:46 PM  
damnit....they changed the headline from Carl

well played admins...well played....
 
2012-12-27 06:08:54 PM  
img826.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-27 06:20:46 PM  
If only that police officer had been armed this wouldn't have happened.
 
2012-12-27 07:43:57 PM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-27 08:26:19 PM  
"Activist Quanell X said he knows Lewis' family well because they attend the same mosque. He watched Lewis grow up in a strict household and said he was stunned by Monday's events"

Well of course...
 
2012-12-27 08:28:14 PM  
Throw the book at him, Uncle Phil

/you smell like broccoli
 
2012-12-27 08:32:58 PM  
"This is not a kid that grew up in a broken home," Quanell X said. "He had a faithful Muslim mother and father. He was raised in a good community. This is outside the imagination of anybody who knows this young boy."

Firstly - "Quanell X"? What the hell?

Secondly - what the hell does growing up in a broken home have to do with anything? Do we live in a world where not one murderous jackass has ever had a happy childhood? Also, he said "Muslim". A sad number of people are going to think he just answered his own question:

He added: "The No. 1 question we all keep asking is, 'Why?'"

The reality is that it doesn't matter at this point. Once he started shooting people the only pertinent question became how to punish you for it. Oh wait..he's in Texas. With any luck his appeals will keep him alive long enough to truly come to regret his actions before he dies for them.
 
2012-12-27 08:34:04 PM  
The above should read "punish him" not "punish you". Preview fail.
 
2012-12-27 08:46:57 PM  

MilesTeg: "Activist Quanell X said he knows Lewis' family well because they attend the same mosque. He watched Lewis grow up in a strict household and said he was stunned by Monday's events"

Well of course...

/waits for the other attention whores to show up and get their time in the limelight. What a douche. Thanks for your pointless thoughts and opinion about this crazed gunman that nobody gives a shiat about.  Step back from the microphone, and let someone with actual merit use it.
 
2012-12-27 08:53:24 PM  
Whatchyou talkin about, Willis?
 
2012-12-27 09:10:38 PM  
If there were only more guns, to stop this tragedy.
 
2012-12-27 09:10:48 PM  
Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link
 
2012-12-27 09:12:04 PM  
It's not unusual to be shot by anyone...

/Although it's getting too damn close to that point.
 
2012-12-27 09:16:40 PM  

mjjt: Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link


Only 574 drunk driver deaths in 2 weeks since Newtown. Socially acceptable slaughter.
 
2012-12-27 09:29:31 PM  

mjjt: Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link


That's a cool chart that slate came up with man.

Just FYI: Murder by firearm is decreasing and is at its lowest since at least 1981. http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun- rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/colt ar15 ban

Yet the evil car keeps on claiming about 115 per day.
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/st ats.html

/I learned my lesson last time. This is just going to become another troll thread, so when in Rome?
//Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"
 
2012-12-27 09:38:34 PM  

A Shambling Mound: "This is not a kid that grew up in a broken home," Quanell X said. "He had a faithful Muslim mother and father. He was raised in a good community. This is outside the imagination of anybody who knows this young boy."

Firstly - "Quanell X"? What the hell?

Quannell is a Sharpton wannabe who is a notorious AW. It has come out in recent years that he charges people upwards of $5000 to be their "spokesman." he pops up when there is a black victim of some heinous white person or the police.
Secondly - what the hell does growing up in a broken home have to do with anything? Do we live in a world where not one murderous jackass has ever had a happy childhood? Also, he said "Muslim". A sad number of people are going to think he just answered his own question:

He added: "The No. 1 question we all keep asking is, 'Why?'"

The reality is that it doesn't matter at this point. Once he started shooting people the only pertinent question became how to punish you for it. Oh wait..he's in Texas. With any luck his appeals will keep him alive long enough to truly come to regret his actions before he dies for them.

 
2012-12-27 09:42:57 PM  
Gee, the Cop Haters must all be drunk.
 
2012-12-27 09:45:47 PM  

President Raygun: If there were only more guns, to stop this tragedy.


If only you had a sense of shame.

0/10
 
2012-12-27 09:46:05 PM  
at least they didn't use... DY-NO-MITE!!
 
2012-12-27 10:01:29 PM  
I live in houston and the new county D.A. said he will personally trie him. The scumbag is charged with capital muder, it is automatic when a cop is killed. In Texas we don't like cop killers.
 
2012-12-27 10:07:11 PM  

kombat_unit: mjjt: Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link

Only 574 drunk driver deaths in 2 weeks since Newtown. Socially acceptable slaughter.


The number of deaths in automobile accidents related to alcohol has declined sharply over the last twenty years. Why? Because we have stricter limits on legal BAC, stricter penalties for those caught, and greater education of the dangers of drinking and driving. Has it completely stopped alcohol-related traffic fatalities? No. Can you find a better explanation of why the numbers are decreasing? No.

flabmaster: Just FYI: Murder by firearm is decreasing and is at its lowest since at least 1981. http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun- rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/colt ar15 ban

Yet the evil car keeps on claiming about 115 per day.
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/st ats.html

/I learned my lesson last time. This is just going to become another troll thread, so when in Rome?
//Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"


The car/gun analogy is useless. Deaths involving cars are mostly accidents that involve driver error or loss of control. Gun deaths are largely intentional homicides, and involve using a gun for the purpose it was created for.

Cars can be murder weapons, and guns can cause accidental deaths - but directly comparing the two is fallacious.

/Yes, I just tooted my own horn here
 
2012-12-27 10:16:35 PM  

mat catastrophe:
The car/gun analogy is useless. Deaths involving cars are mostly accidents that involve driver error or loss of control. Gun deaths are largely intentional homicides, and involve using a gun for the purpose it was created for.

Cars can be murder weapons, and guns can cause accidental deaths - but directly comparing the two is fallacious.

/Yes, I just tooted my own horn here


But, isnt it interesting that something 'designed to kill' routinely kills less people than something else does accidentally. The people who own the vast majority of guns must be law-abiding people, else we would be awash in as much blood as cars spill.

And, with the number of guns in circulation always going up, how is the number of people *deliberately and accidentally* killed with guns going down?
 
2012-12-27 10:21:02 PM  
i210.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-27 10:30:04 PM  

76794p: I live in houston and the new county D.A. said he will personally trie him. The scumbag is charged with capital muder, it is automatic when a cop is killed. In Texas we don't like cop killers.


/Im with you there. Too bad they still don't use the chair. Would love to watch this bastards nuts cook. What a piece of shiat.
 
2012-12-27 10:48:33 PM  

mat catastrophe: kombat_unit: mjjt: Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link

Only 574 drunk driver deaths in 2 weeks since Newtown. Socially acceptable slaughter.

The number of deaths in automobile accidents related to alcohol has declined sharply over the last twenty years. Why? Because we have stricter limits on legal BAC, stricter penalties for those caught, and greater education of the dangers of drinking and driving. Has it completely stopped alcohol-related traffic fatalities? No. Can you find a better explanation of why the numbers are decreasing? No.

flabmaster: Just FYI: Murder by firearm is decreasing and is at its lowest since at least 1981. http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun- rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/colt ar15 ban

Yet the evil car keeps on claiming about 115 per day.
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/st ats.html

/I learned my lesson last time. This is just going to become another troll thread, so when in Rome?
//Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"

The car/gun analogy is useless. Deaths involving cars are mostly accidents that involve driver error or loss of control. Gun deaths are largely intentional homicides, and involve using a gun for the purpose it was created for.

Cars can be murder weapons, and guns can cause accidental deaths - but directly comparing the two is fallacious.

/Yes, I just tooted my own horn here


Most folks on the opposite side of this debate from me like to point out that a gun's only purpose is killing. I strongly disagree with this statement. Is one of the purposes of a firearm killing? Yes. Is that its sole purpose? Absolutely not. Is killing our fellow man even the main use of firearms in the US? Absolutely not - just look at the staggering number of shots fired by sportsmen and recreational shooters each year compared to the number of shots fired by criminals.

Hell, I fire between 10,000 and 15,000 rounds of ammunition a year. Not a single one has ever been fired with the intent of killing - nor have I ever come close to accidentally killing someone with a negligent discharge (note that I say "negligent" and not "accidental" discharge - in my mind "accidental" firearms deaths are the result of negligence and disobeying the golden rule of muzzle control). I enjoy shooting sports as a hobby, as a form of stress relief, and I enjoy participating in local competitive events.

And no, I am not the exception to the rule. The vast majority of firearms enthusiasts I've come across (no, not ITG trolls on the internet, but real life ;shooters) also fire thousands and thousands of rounds without ever having an intent to kill. They are substantially more responsible, knowledgeable, and respectful of their tool than the vast majority of motorists are of theirs.

How else can you explain the fact that automotive deaths FAR outweigh the number of firearm deaths?

So no, I really don't think it's a BS comparison.
 
2012-12-27 10:50:22 PM  
Man, I really do not like Quannell.

He's already been under investigation for extorting money out of the people he "helps." In this case I hope he slips up and ends up back in prison.
 
2012-12-27 11:04:35 PM  

flabmaster: mjjt: Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link

That's a cool chart that slate came up with man.

Just FYI: Murder by firearm is decreasing and is at its lowest since at least 1981. http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun- rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/colt ar15 ban

Yet the evil car keeps on claiming about 115 per day.
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/st ats.html



So how exactly does that thinking work?

Lots of people are dying of cancer, but look, lots of people die in car crashes so we shouldn't do anything to try to reduce the number of cancer deaths?
 
2012-12-27 11:15:17 PM  
if only the good guys had guns..oh...wait...

right on Gunmerica...you keep that death toll a climbin till new years.
 
2012-12-27 11:34:14 PM  

flabmaster: mjjt: Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link

That's a cool chart that slate came up with man.

Just FYI: Murder by firearm is decreasing and is at its lowest since at least 1981. http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun- rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/colt ar15 ban

Yet the evil car keeps on claiming about 115 per day.
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/st ats.html

/I learned my lesson last time. This is just going to become another troll thread, so when in Rome?
//Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"


They'll have to pull my muzzleloader from my clammy paws...
 
2012-12-27 11:37:57 PM  

Deadwing: Quannell is a Sharpton wannabe who is a notorious AW. It has come out in recent years that he charges people upwards of $5000 to be their "spokesman." he pops up when there is a black victim of some heinous white person or the police.


I looked him up as well. He sounds like a real stand-up guy.

Thanks though, I'd never heard of him before.
 
2012-12-27 11:43:32 PM  

flabmaster: mat catastrophe: kombat_unit: mjjt: Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link

Only 574 drunk driver deaths in 2 weeks since Newtown. Socially acceptable slaughter.

The number of deaths in automobile accidents related to alcohol has declined sharply over the last twenty years. Why? Because we have stricter limits on legal BAC, stricter penalties for those caught, and greater education of the dangers of drinking and driving. Has it completely stopped alcohol-related traffic fatalities? No. Can you find a better explanation of why the numbers are decreasing? No.

flabmaster: Just FYI: Murder by firearm is decreasing and is at its lowest since at least 1981. http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun- rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/colt ar15 ban

Yet the evil car keeps on claiming about 115 per day.
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/st ats.html

/I learned my lesson last time. This is just going to become another troll thread, so when in Rome?
//Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"

The car/gun analogy is useless. Deaths involving cars are mostly accidents that involve driver error or loss of control. Gun deaths are largely intentional homicides, and involve using a gun for the purpose it was created for.

Cars can be murder weapons, and guns can cause accidental deaths - but directly comparing the two is fallacious.

/Yes, I just tooted my own horn here

Most folks on the opposite side of this debate from me like to point out that a gun's only purpose is killing. I strongly disagree with this statement. Is one of the purposes of a firearm killing? Yes. Is that its sole purpose? Absolutely not. Is killing our fellow man even the main use of firearms in the US? Absolutely not - just look at the staggering number of shots fired by sportsmen and recreational shooters each year compared to the number of shots fired by criminals.

Hell ...


THIS^ I go through at least 200 rounds a week of various calibers....aimed at paper targets and steel plates! I reload my own cartridges, I melt scrap lead and cast my own bullets, but I pray the day never comes where I would have to use a firearm on another human being. I shoot because I enjoy the hobby. That being said, AR-15s are mall ninja-tier guns.
 
2012-12-27 11:59:35 PM  

mjjt: flabmaster: mjjt: Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link

That's a cool chart that slate came up with man.

Just FYI: Murder by firearm is decreasing and is at its lowest since at least 1981. http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun- rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/colt ar15 ban

Yet the evil car keeps on claiming about 115 per day.
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/st ats.html



So how exactly does that thinking work?

Lots of people are dying of cancer, but look, lots of people die in car crashes so we shouldn't do anything to try to reduce the number of cancer deaths?


You didn't do a very good job reading my post, did you?

I posted some trolltastic biased numbers in response to you posting a trolltastic biased link. I then outright admitted I was trolling because let's be honest - every one of these fark threads just turns into a joke and a bottom feeding trollfest, so why bother?

I even went so far as saying:
//Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"

Which should clearly indicate that I don't think there should be no talking/debating and I don't think *nothing* should be done (though I 100% believe whatever measure is proposed to Congress in early January will be an emotionally based knee jerk reaction and wholly ineffective. See 1994-2004's useless attempt at banning cosmetic features of firearms used in less than 1-2% of all violent crimes). It may surprise you, but there are some new forms of firearms related legislation I would support. I live in WA state where private party pistol sales are legal. I personally am fine requiring background checks for those. I would LOVE if the NICS system had a webpage anyone could access where a prospective buyer could type in all the info required on a 4473. The system could then kick out either a thumbs up or a thumbs down for the buyer. That beats the hell out of the current law which states nothing more than I am not "knowingly" allowed to sell firearms to a felon.

I would also support an additional 2-5% tax on all firearms and ammunition if it allowed us to better reform our mental health care system and our prison system.

But rational discourse isn't what fark threads want. They want trolltastic posts like Haliburton Cummings and his trite "Gunmerica" post, or any link to slate.
 
2012-12-28 12:03:35 AM  

baronvonzipper: flabmaster: mjjt: Only 242 gun deaths in the 2 weeks since Newtown

Link

That's a cool chart that slate came up with man.

Just FYI: Murder by firearm is decreasing and is at its lowest since at least 1981. http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun- rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/colt ar15 ban

Yet the evil car keeps on claiming about 115 per day.
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/st ats.html

/I learned my lesson last time. This is just going to become another troll thread, so when in Rome?
//Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"

They'll have to pull my muzzleloader from my clammy paws...


LOL! Ok, I'm unwadding my panties and putting my rant above about fark trolls ruining my desire to discuss firearms politics aside for a moment.

This made me chortle. Well done sir.
 
2012-12-28 12:19:11 AM  

flabmaster: Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"


How about liability insurance for all gun owners? Or criminal penalties if a gun you own isn't properly secured and someone gets hold of it and uses it to commit a crime?
 
2012-12-28 12:45:51 AM  
NOT REPORTED: Local youth's mother becomes frightened over events, sends him to live with aunt & uncle in west Philadelphia.
 
2012-12-28 12:48:18 AM  

fusillade762: flabmaster: Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"

How about liability insurance for all gun owners? Or criminal penalties if a gun you own isn't properly secured and someone gets hold of it and uses it to commit a crime?


From my comment in another one of these threads:

" I agree with you on this one, but defining the parameters of that punishment is really quite sticky.

I will give a similar example to what you provided above: I am an aerospace engineer and I work with all export sensitive data (ITAR and EAR controlled, but none of it classified - if it were classified this anecdote changes quite a bit). Let's say I leave my laptop out in my car and I am victim of a smash and grab. The data on my laptop could be sold and used by a less than hospitable nation to develop weapons that can cause a hell of a lot more damage than a stolen handgun.

While I was a victim of a crime, I am still very much at fault of being an idiot. So, what should my punishment be?

This is quite a common occurrence at large aerospace companies. The typical punishment ranges anywhere from a black mark on your file & some remedial "training", all the way up to financial penalties for the lost property and loss of employment.

To the best of my knowledge, however, no one has been fined millions of dollars by the State Department for export violations, nor have they faced jail time, since none of these instances were malicious or intentional.

The TLDR version: What type of punishment would someone face for having their gun stolen? I am fine with loss of firearms rights and fines (the suspension term and fine amount could be variable based on how stupid the owner was being with their gun). I am NOT ok with jail time. Punishments like that only create incentive for people NOT to report that they've been burgled."

So, I'm happy to deal and compromise. How about universally recognized concealed carry permits across the entire USA? I'm fine with requiring consistent training in all states, as well as yearly qualifications.

How about we also discuss avenues outside of nerfing the 2nd Amendment? Perhaps we recognize the 1st can also be dangerous when it comes to sick, vulnerable minds. I'd like to see the media restricted from mentioning Lanza's name - just refer to him as shiathead and give him a number. I would also LOVE to see them barred from covering every aspect of the shooter's life and barred from describing just how many bullet holes are in each little body. That just gives the next sick fark a high score to beat.

Perhaps we can also talk about improvements in mental health care (which undoubtedly result in stepping on some personal liberties) and our criminal justice system?

This is a complex multivariable system and most folks seem to only want to discuss one of those variables. Implementing further restrictions on the 2nd Amendment and not touching anything else will do absolutely nothing to fix our problems.
 
2012-12-28 01:50:03 AM  
What's changed over 20 years?
No mandatory draft, so no longer a well regulated militia model.
All these guns, with a new generation with no training and no basic training and no DI's busting peoples balls about weapons and safety procedures, as per the funny but serious chant "This is my rifle, this is my gun, this is for killing, this one's for fun"

Since Switzerland is usually the country which is used to justify the current situation, a situation that was mostly true in the US up until the late 80's when the draft was entirely phased out, and surprisingly, the 90's was the highest rate of handgun crime the US's major cities had ever experienced, but nobody really makes that correllation either. However here is the pertinent information about that:

Conscription
Main article: Conscription in Switzerland

Switzerland has mandatory military service for all able-bodied male citizens, who are conscripted when they reach the age of majority,[21] though women may volunteer for any position.[22] People determined unfit for service, where fitness is defined as "satisfying physically, intellectually and psychically requirements for military service or civil protection service and being capable of accomplishing these services without harming oneself or others",[23] are exempted from service but pay a 3% additional annual income tax until the age of 30, unless they are affected by a disability.[24] Almost 20% of all conscripts were found unfit for military or civilian service in 2008; the rate is generally higher in urban cantons such as Zurich and Geneva than in the rural ones.[25] Swiss citizens living abroad are generally exempted from conscription in time of peace[26] while dual citizenship by itself does not grant such exemption.[27]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_military

I would bet it is safe to say that in today's society, that these numbers are close to being the same for the US populace. However so many people are inheriting the guns that were previously held by people who understood the consequences of their usage and passed onto people who don't care, or fit the category as described above that a new level of scrutiny is going to be needed to bring some sense of reason, and or sorting mechanism into play if we are to see further reductions in criminal/inappropriate gun use in this country.

So I would suggest that we ask gun owners and potential gun owners to be assessed for their fitness to arm themselves according to existing military enlistment fitness guidelines, and that if they are found to be unfit, that they voluntarily disarm themselves, or take the steps neccessary to become fit enough to pass the current enlistment fitness guidelines, just like was done for every able bodied citizen in the past up until the all voluntary army came into being in the late 80's to the current period of time.

The primary problem is we don't know what the inventory nor the population density of unfit individuals in society is today, and we haven't known for nearly 2 decades. The guns were a hedge against an oppressive government, but we now have an unfiltered and unregulated populace that has no real screening at all. While it is true that violent criminal actions with guns are going down, the numbers of mentally unfit people gaining access to firearms with no prior official record of mental illness seems to be going up.

We need to establish draft model for psychiatric screenings to re-establish a baseline of who and who is not mentally fit to have access to firearms at the age of majority, and while they will still be citizens, at least the laws that pre-empt legal gun ownership will be able to actively screen out those who could be the most prone to fail to use the firearms correctly, safely and for what the society has deemed legitimate uses for those firearms.
 
2012-12-28 06:59:32 AM  

sugar_fetus: But, isnt it interesting that something 'designed to kill' routinely kills less people than something else does accidentally. The people who own the vast majority of guns must be law-abiding people, else we would be awash in as much blood as cars spill.


No, it isn't interesting. Most cars are used every day by their owners, most guns are not. You would expect injuries and fatalities to go up with rates of usage.


And, with the number of guns in circulation always going up, how is the number of people *deliberately and accidentally* killed with guns going down?


That's a pretty good question, and it may have something to do with the reasons that deaths by drunk driver are falling - we're smarter than we were twenty years ago, for one. I don't know how we would stack up arrest and conviction rates for gun crimes, though, since most of the time all you hear is how "our court system fails us" by not handing out everyone arrested for any violent crime a life sentence.

Again, no one should make the mistake of guessing where I stand on gun rights - since I haven't said one way or the other. What I care about is that people understand when their arguments and their logic make sense and comparing gun deaths with traffic deaths doesn't make sense, unless you want to strictly compare accidental and intentional deaths by each.
 
2012-12-28 07:06:00 AM  
Yay! My hometown made Fark! Pro tip, be careful driving through Bellaire if you're not white.
 
2012-12-28 07:42:46 AM  

GonadtheBarbarian: That being said, AR-15s are mall ninja-tier guns.


I agree. Thats why I go with the FS2000 for all my 5.56 needs
i198.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-28 08:11:24 AM  

76794p: ... The scumbag is charged with capital muder, it is automatic when a cop is killed. In Texas we don't like cop killers.


Why is a cop's life automatically worth more than yours or mine?
 
2012-12-28 08:17:36 AM  

fusillade762:
How about liability insurance for all gun owners? Or criminal penalties if a gun you own isn't properly secured and someone gets hold of it and uses it to commit a crime?


How about criminal penalties for the person who commits a crime?
 
2012-12-28 08:24:27 AM  

Haliburton Cummings: if only the good guys had guns..oh...wait...


Did you read the article? "Good guys with guns" shot the murderer.
 
2012-12-28 08:32:49 AM  

Oblio13: 76794p: ... The scumbag is charged with capital muder, it is automatic when a cop is killed. In Texas we don't like cop killers.

Why is a cop's life automatically worth more than yours or mine?


Keep hating, but it's also capital to kill a child or an old person, as well as any public servant performing his or her duties (like firefighters), and killing someone while committing a felony, like robbery.
 
2012-12-28 10:01:19 AM  

Acravius: What's changed over 20 years?
No mandatory draft, so no longer a well regulated militia model.
All these guns, with a new generation with no training and no basic training and no DI's busting peoples balls about weapons and safety procedures, as per the funny but serious chant "This is my rifle, this is my gun, this is for killing, this one's for fun"

Since Switzerland is usually the country which is used to justify the current situation, a situation that was mostly true in the US up until the late 80's when the draft was entirely phased out, and surprisingly, the 90's was the highest rate of handgun crime the US's major cities had ever experienced, but nobody really makes that correllation either. However here is the pertinent information about that:

Conscription
Main article: Conscription in Switzerland

Switzerland has mandatory military service for all able-bodied male citizens, who are conscripted when they reach the age of majority,[21] though women may volunteer for any position.[22] People determined unfit for service, where fitness is defined as "satisfying physically, intellectually and psychically requirements for military service or civil protection service and being capable of accomplishing these services without harming oneself or others",[23] are exempted from service but pay a 3% additional annual income tax until the age of 30, unless they are affected by a disability.[24] Almost 20% of all conscripts were found unfit for military or civilian service in 2008; the rate is generally higher in urban cantons such as Zurich and Geneva than in the rural ones.[25] Swiss citizens living abroad are generally exempted from conscription in time of peace[26] while dual citizenship by itself does not grant such exemption.[27]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_military

I would bet it is safe to say that in today's society, that these numbers are close to being the same for the US populace. However so many people are inheriting the guns that were previously held by people who understood the consequences of their usage and passed onto people who don't care, or fit the category as described above that a new level of scrutiny is going to be needed to bring some sense of reason, and or sorting mechanism into play if we are to see further reductions in criminal/inappropriate gun use in this country.

So I would suggest that we ask gun owners and potential gun owners to be assessed for their fitness to arm themselves according to existing military enlistment fitness guidelines, and that if they are found to be unfit, that they voluntarily disarm themselves, or take the steps neccessary to become fit enough to pass the current enlistment fitness guidelines, just like was done for every able bodied citizen in the past up until the all voluntary army came into being in the late 80's to the current period of time.

The primary problem is we don't know what the inventory nor the population density of unfit individuals in society is today, and we haven't known for nearly 2 decades. The guns were a hedge against an oppressive government, but we now have an unfiltered and unregulated populace that has no real screening at all. While it is true that violent criminal actions with guns are going down, the numbers of mentally unfit people gaining access to firearms with no prior official record of mental illness seems to be going up.

We need to establish draft model for psychiatric screenings to re-establish a baseline of who and who is not mentally fit to have access to firearms at the age of majority, and while they will still be citizens, at least the laws that pre-empt legal gun ownership will be able to actively screen out those who could be the most prone to fail to use the firearms correctly, safely and for what the society has deemed legitimate uses for those firearms.


Cool. I want that for voting and drivers licenses.
 
2012-12-28 10:11:35 AM  
"This is not a kid that grew up in a broken home," Quanell X said. "He had a faithful Muslim mother and father. He was raised in a good community. This is outside the imagination of anybody who knows this young boy

Is this the same as, "he's a good boy and was turning his life around"?
 
2012-12-28 12:35:02 PM  
Activist Quanell X said he knows Lewis' family well because they attend the same mosque. He watched Lewis grow up in a strict household and said he was stunned by Monday's events.
"This is not a kid that grew up in a broken home," Quanell X said. "He had a faithful Muslim mother and father. He was raised in a good community. This is outside the imagination of anybody who knows this young boy."


A young punk jacked up on Islam sneaks up on an infidel police officer and shoots him dead out of the blue, for no reason?

The hell you say.
 
2012-12-28 05:40:31 PM  

fusillade762: flabmaster: Let me know if anyone actually wants to have a serious and constructive conversation that doesn't involve the lines "from my cold dead hands" or "ZOMG BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!!"

How about liability insurance for all gun owners? Or criminal penalties if a gun you own isn't properly secured and someone gets hold of it and uses it to commit a crime?


are you farking retarded? you want me to pay for insurance on my guns so that ____ what? i'm never going to misuse them and by that i mean injure or kill a person. so this insurance would do what? yes i ask again because i'm so confused as to the point of insurance.

now your second point is equally stupid. define properly secured. locked in a glass front display case. that would stop the law abiding and children. would a handgun owner with a single handgun be ok with a small safe? they are portable you know. and if the person doing B&E on the single handgun owner's home stole the small safe and used the purloined gun in a crime what should the penalty be for the buyer/owner?

i should be politer and probably either won't get an answer or get flamed but damn man if you are going to parrot the anti gun folks phrase your talking points better.
 
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