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(WTOP)   If you're going to drive drunk, make sure that parking lot you drove into isn't really someone's lawn. To avoid getting on Fark, the lawn should not be at AA founder Bill Wilson's historic home   (wtop.com) divider line 60
    More: Dumbass, Alcoholics Anonymous, Vermont State Police, co-founder, Bennington, lawns  
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3654 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Dec 2012 at 6:11 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-27 03:49:17 PM  
Isn't it ironic? Don't you think?
 
2012-12-27 04:08:02 PM  
Maybe he was a friend.
 
2012-12-27 05:23:53 PM  
I do know someone who, while walking attempting to stumble home one night, passed out in a puddle of her own puke on the steps of the community church during an AA meeting. She likes to think she did them a service by reinforcing why sobriety is a good idea.

They were surprisingly cool and non-judgy as they took care of her. Although she does have an open invitation to come back anytime.
 
2012-12-27 05:49:00 PM  

namegoeshere: I do know someone who, while walking attempting to stumble home one night, passed out in a puddle of her own puke on the steps of the community church during an AA meeting. She likes to think she did them a service by reinforcing why sobriety is a good idea.

They were surprisingly cool and non-judgy as they took care of her. Although she does have an open invitation to come back anytime.


Divine intervention.

Btw subby, he is referred to as Bill W.
/my ex husband
told me.
 
2012-12-27 06:19:26 PM  
God, give me grace to accept with serenity
the things that are not parking lots,
Courage to locate parking lots
which should be parking lots,
and the Wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.
 
2012-12-27 06:19:37 PM  

"Police say 55-year-old Donald Blood III of Marlborough, Mass., was ordered to appear in court in Bennington on Jan. 14."


(Said in unison): "Hi Donald!"


He crashed his cart in Marlborough Country.
 
2012-12-27 06:20:35 PM  
Wonder what the sentence will be...
 
2012-12-27 06:25:19 PM  
Sounds like he was just going AA meeting to me.
 
2012-12-27 06:25:39 PM  
...he was only 12 steps from freedom.
 
2012-12-27 06:28:25 PM  
"If I can't be a good role model, at least let me serve as a good example of what not to do"
 
2012-12-27 06:28:42 PM  
In before criticism of AA.
 
2012-12-27 06:30:24 PM  
Drinking and driving is no joke, they should throw the Big Book at him.
 
2012-12-27 06:36:05 PM  
'AA? You're crazy! I needed AAA!"
/can't remember who said
 
2012-12-27 06:37:52 PM  

moops: In before criticism of AA.


Considering that Wilson was batshiat insane and that AA is basically a cult ... Woohoo!
 
2012-12-27 06:38:09 PM  
He landed in exactly the same place on that lawn that Bill W did in his most challenging year. Both men skidded to a stop just off the driveway into the sod; where the topsoil is thinnest. In both cases the men had realized rock-bottom.

That patch of turf will never be the same.
 
2012-12-27 06:43:13 PM  
Making amends should include things this substantial
 
2012-12-27 06:44:25 PM  

gingerjet: moops: In before criticism of AA.

Considering that Wilson was batshiat insane and that AA is basically a cult ... Woohoo!


Cultish in the hands of some. But decidedly not a cult.

I'm in Al-Anon (thanks alcoholic ex-GF with borderline personality disorder!), and I can say from first hand experience that, like anything even remotely resembling a religion or social group or "self help" situation, sure there's people who are batshiat insane in their ranks. However, the majority are really pretty cool folks who have been through a crapton of evil and walked out the other side.

Are there whackjobs who take things too far? Sure (*cough*greysheet*ahem*), just like there are with anything. Unfortunately those are the people who most folks remember. But I can promise you that, right now, there's people you encounter on a daily basis, doctors, lawyers, coffee shop employees, CEOs, actors/actresses, you name it who aren't like... Gary Busey.

As an agnostic, borderline atheist, personally I don't care what it takes for someone to get sober if they're not hurting anyone else.
 
2012-12-27 06:45:27 PM  
His name was Bill Wilson. His name was Bill Wilson. His name was Bill Wilson. His name was Bill Wilson. His name was Bill Wilson.
 
2012-12-27 06:54:43 PM  

Walker: Isn't it ironic? Don't you think?


God damn it. Well I brought a pic.
www.fuckfrance.com

/AM
 
2012-12-27 06:55:13 PM  
Did he have to turn back in that 30 day coin?
 
2012-12-27 06:55:21 PM  

unchellmatt: gingerjet: moops: In before criticism of AA.

Considering that Wilson was batshiat insane and that AA is basically a cult ... Woohoo!

Cultish in the hands of some. But decidedly not a cult.

I'm in Al-Anon (thanks alcoholic ex-GF with borderline personality disorder!), and I can say from first hand experience that, like anything even remotely resembling a religion or social group or "self help" situation, sure there's people who are batshiat insane in their ranks. However, the majority are really pretty cool folks who have been through a crapton of evil and walked out the other side.

Are there whackjobs who take things too far? Sure (*cough*greysheet*ahem*), just like there are with anything. Unfortunately those are the people who most folks remember. But I can promise you that, right now, there's people you encounter on a daily basis, doctors, lawyers, coffee shop employees, CEOs, actors/actresses, you name it who aren't like... Gary Busey.

As an agnostic, borderline atheist, personally I don't care what it takes for someone to get sober if they're not hurting anyone else.


I wish there was an alternative to AA that was a bit easier to take than AA's form of spirituality/religion. As an atheist, it's a really irritating place to be. Or maybe it's just the overreliance on slogans and crap. Personally, I just got the sense that too many members weren't really being honest, but rather just spouting what they think was the right thing to say.
 
2012-12-27 06:59:00 PM  

unchellmatt: Cultish in the hands of some. But decidedly not a cult.

I'm in Al-Anon (thanks alcoholic ex-GF with borderline personality disorder!), and I can say from first hand experience that, like anything even remotely resembling a religion or social group or "self help" situation, sure there's people who are batshiat insane in their ranks. However, the majority are really pretty cool folks who have been through a crapton of evil and walked out the other side.


I'm in ACA (thanks alcoholic father and abusive mother!), and what you say is about right.

Some things can sound cultish or wacky, but it's partly a faith-based organization. To believe some things, you have to take a leap of faith. You can ignore the "Higher Power" bits and still be there.

If you have a drinking problem, it's gonna be hella difficult to address that without a support group. There are other support groups, but AA groups are literally everywhere. There's a chapter in Antarctica.

As for the cult thing....they don't have any farking leadership (it's run by volunteers), they don't charge dues, and they don't shun/stalk you if you leave. AA doesn't recruit, it only aims to attract people who want to address their addiction. So how is it a cult?
 
2012-12-27 07:15:46 PM  

moops: There's a chapter in Antarctica.


That's just ruining the fun. What else is there to do all day?
 
2012-12-27 07:20:04 PM  
My sole problem with AA isn't really AA's fault, it's that judges de facto force people to attend a religious organization. That and people forced to attend by court decree instead of their own volition have about a 0% chance to actually get sober (like any detox/sobriety program).
 
2012-12-27 07:28:31 PM  

robodog: My sole problem with AA isn't really AA's fault, it's that judges de facto force people to attend a religious organization. That and people forced to attend by court decree instead of their own volition have about a 0% chance to actually get sober (like any detox/sobriety program).


You can't force anyone to get sober or give up addictions before they are absolutely ready.
My experience with AA was an irritation at sitting through a few meetings with ex; the entire time I was thinking if they just didn't drink so much or inappropriately that they wouldn't be alcoholic.
Yes, I was referred to AlAnon, another somewhat worthy timespend. Now my policy is to just not deal with anyone that isn't clear of their addictions and the behaviour asociated.
 
2012-12-27 07:31:49 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: moops: There's a chapter in Antarctica.

That's just ruining the fun. What else is there to do all day?


Make snowmen?

Or do your job? I imagine most people living in Antarctica are there because they're gettin' paid.

Also build snow tunnels between buildings for when The Thing attacks and there's a huge blizzard howling.
 
2012-12-27 07:33:14 PM  

robodog: My sole problem with AA isn't really AA's fault, it's that judges de facto force people to attend a religious organization. That and people forced to attend by court decree instead of their own volition have about a 0% chance to actually get sober (like any detox/sobriety program).


There was a court case in 2009 that prohibited coercing people to attend AA meetings. It's perceived as too religious and therefore violates the Establishment Clause.
 
2012-12-27 07:35:28 PM  

stewbert: I wish there was an alternative to AA that was a bit easier to take than AA's form of spirituality/religion. As an atheist, it's a really irritating place to be. Or maybe it's just the overreliance on slogans and crap. Personally, I just got the sense that too many members weren't really being honest, but rather just spouting what they think was the right thing to say.


Have you looked at Secular Organizations for Sobriety?

Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with this group.
 
2012-12-27 07:39:16 PM  

moops: unchellmatt: Cultish in the hands of some. But decidedly not a cult.

I'm in Al-Anon (thanks alcoholic ex-GF with borderline personality disorder!), and I can say from first hand experience that, like anything even remotely resembling a religion or social group or "self help" situation, sure there's people who are batshiat insane in their ranks. However, the majority are really pretty cool folks who have been through a crapton of evil and walked out the other side.

I'm in ACA (thanks alcoholic father and abusive mother!), and what you say is about right.

Some things can sound cultish or wacky, but it's partly a faith-based organization. To believe some things, you have to take a leap of faith. You can ignore the "Higher Power" bits and still be there.

If you have a drinking problem, it's gonna be hella difficult to address that without a support group. There are other support groups, but AA groups are literally everywhere. There's a chapter in Antarctica.

As for the cult thing....they don't have any farking leadership (it's run by volunteers), they don't charge dues, and they don't shun/stalk you if you leave. AA doesn't recruit, it only aims to attract people who want to address their addiction. So how is it a cult?


There are sub-groups in AA that are very cultish, right down to the charismatic leaders. But on the whole, I agree with you. It isn't really a cult.

But, it's hard to stick around if you don't buy into the higher power thing. I know they love to say that anything can be your higher power, but they really mean some kind of god. If your higher power is a table or chair, it might be difficult to have a spiritual awakening.

And, a lot of crap said at AA sounds very wacky and idiotic. Like I said before, the over use of slogans is an incredible turn off for me. A lifelong addiction is a complex biatch. It can't be defeated by "keeping it simple, stupid" or "one day at a time". Plus, some AA'ers aren't very bright, and use these slogans too literally. You end up with people who completely excuse any behavior at all as long as they "stayed sober today". That's not the point of the program, but it is what happens when you reduce things to slogans and talking points.
 
2012-12-27 07:42:52 PM  

Unauthorized Bratwurst: stewbert: I wish there was an alternative to AA that was a bit easier to take than AA's form of spirituality/religion. As an atheist, it's a really irritating place to be. Or maybe it's just the overreliance on slogans and crap. Personally, I just got the sense that too many members weren't really being honest, but rather just spouting what they think was the right thing to say.

Have you looked at Secular Organizations for Sobriety?

Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with this group.


They don't have offerings in my area. I'd really like some kind of treatment that isn't a support group. One failure of that model is that all the support comes from other drunks. From my experience, AA can be a real hive of scum and villany. Some really great people, no question, but also loads of predators and general losers.
 
2012-12-27 07:43:14 PM  

robodog: My sole problem with AA isn't really AA's fault, it's that judges de facto force people to attend a religious organization. That and people forced to attend by court decree instead of their own volition have about a 0% chance to actually get sober (like any detox/sobriety program).


My atheist sister got another DUI (she's actually got three under her belt, but now we just take her keys when she hits the sauce, so it's no longer a problem) some years back and the judge gave her a choice of AA or jail. She went to one meeting and went back to court, told 'em "Lock me up. I'm not hanging out with those semi-religious freakazoids" while apparently my Mother sat in court and just did the Mom version of a facepalm. So they did lock her up that very same day. Problem solved, I guess.

/never, ever drinks and drives
//doesn't even drive because I suck at it even while sober
 
2012-12-27 07:43:33 PM  
Keep coming back!
 
2012-12-27 07:47:17 PM  
Long-term Recovery rate in AA program is about 5%.
Long-term Recovery rate on your own...... about 5%.
Hmmm...
 
2012-12-27 07:50:49 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: That's just ruining the fun. What else is there to do all day?


beer: the best yellow snow writer tool this side of the 'berg
 
2012-12-27 07:57:44 PM  
Y'know, subby, I submitted this with an IRONIC tag.
 
2012-12-27 08:14:49 PM  

TimeCubeFan: Long-term Recovery rate in AA program is about 5%.
Long-term Recovery rate on your own...... about 5%.
Hmmm...


Ding ding...
 
2012-12-27 08:51:46 PM  
Hi, I'm Donald Blood III, and I'm an alcoholic.

Unfortunately, the chances I'm going to turn my life around in AA is about the same as if I did absolutely nothing.    (I.E., AA's efficacy rate is about the same as those people spontaneously recovering from their alcohol addiction).
 
2012-12-27 08:52:02 PM  
Long-term Recovery rate in AA program is about 5%.
Long-term Recovery rate on your own...... about 5%.
Hmmm...

Source, besides pulling it our of your ass.
 
2012-12-27 09:09:59 PM  
Not pulled out my ass Mean Daddy, which is obivously where your head is or you could have googled "AA efficacy" and found all the supporting info you would like:

Start here:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD005032.pub2/ab st ract;jsessionid=6A70964EA1C4E0EFDA2338DF2D833B95.d03t04

AA is a bunch of farking pseudopsycho hogwash which scapegoats God rather than taking any sensible medical or psychological approach to the addiction and personality disorders involved.
 
2012-12-27 09:17:14 PM  

TimeCubeFan: Long-term Recovery rate in AA program is about 5%.
Long-term Recovery rate on your own...... about 5%.
Hmmm...


Glad to be a 5%er. 20 years last August, wouldn't have made the first year without AA.
 
2012-12-27 09:30:14 PM  

stewbert: I wish there was an alternative to AA that was a bit easier to take than AA's form of spirituality/religion. As an atheist, it's a really irritating place to be. Or maybe it's just the overreliance on slogans and crap. Personally, I just got the sense that too many members weren't really being honest, but rather just spouting what they think was the right thing to say.


Oh yeah, that's what kept me from really even walking in to an Al-Anon meeting! However, I think I got lucky in that the first person I heard speak emphasized a higher power "as you perceive it", then went on to explain how, for her, it was the group of people and an almost Buddhist sense of being a part of some larger whole. Actually, one of the few times where I got the sense someone wasn't welcome was while visiting an AA Big Book Step Study meeting where a guy who was visiting from down South got his 3 minutes to talk. He went on and on about how if you didn't take Jesus, specifically Jesus, into your "heart", you wouldn't remain sober. The next person to speak was a guy with 30 years under his belt, and pointedly said to the Bible thumper something about "my job as a rabbi".

From that point on, no one even looked at that guy for the rest of the meeting, but after, everyone shook his hand and thanked him for being there. Even though pretty much everyone disagreed with him, they let him have his 3 minutes and thanked him and asked how long he'd be in town, and asked him back. And the next week, not a single person slagged the guy for what he'd had to say. I'm sure there's groups everywhere in the world where people have the same attitude as that guy, but all the ones in the various 12 step programs I've visited, people have been very accepting.

rnatalie: AA is a bunch of farking pseudopsycho hogwash which scapegoats God rather than taking any sensible medical or psychological approach to the addiction and personality disorders involved.


Seriously? Does it matter? Do you have anyone in your life who is an addict? Statistically you would. Now, if you do, and if you've watched someone whither away, would you really care if they get their act together using AA, psychology, therapy, medication, or heck, licking frogs? Also, if you use the words "scapegoats God", that suggests you pretty much know zero about which you talk.
 
2012-12-27 10:09:22 PM  

Mean Daddy: Long-term Recovery rate in AA program is about 5%.
Long-term Recovery rate on your own...... about 5%.
Hmmm...

Source, besides pulling it our of your ass.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU2YliYttnQ
Granted it's an episode of Penn & Teller's Bull$*i+, but they do provide quite a few sources. AA is very secretive about their "stats" so it's not surprising there aren't decimal-point-specific figures, but these are close approximations. Enough to get a general idea of their effectiveness. Hope that helps, and I'm glad you asked for sources rather than just buying into something I or anyone said. Cheers!
 
2012-12-27 10:38:44 PM  

TimeCubeFan: Mean Daddy: Long-term Recovery rate in AA program is about 5%.
Long-term Recovery rate on your own...... about 5%.
Hmmm...

Source, besides pulling it our of your ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU2YliYttnQ
Granted it's an episode of Penn & Teller's Bull$*i+, but they do provide quite a few sources. AA is very secretive about their "stats" so it's not surprising there aren't decimal-point-specific figures, but these are close approximations. Enough to get a general idea of their effectiveness. Hope that helps, and I'm glad you asked for sources rather than just buying into something I or anyone said. Cheers!


AA doesn't keep stats, as far as I know.
 
2012-12-28 12:32:20 AM  

simplicimus: TimeCubeFan: Mean Daddy: Long-term Recovery rate in AA program is about 5%.
Long-term Recovery rate on your own...... about 5%.
Hmmm...

Source, besides pulling it our of your ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU2YliYttnQ
Granted it's an episode of Penn & Teller's Bull$*i+, but they do provide quite a few sources. AA is very secretive about their "stats" so it's not surprising there aren't decimal-point-specific figures, but these are close approximations. Enough to get a general idea of their effectiveness. Hope that helps, and I'm glad you asked for sources rather than just buying into something I or anyone said. Cheers!

AA doesn't keep stats, as far as I know.


I'm not sure how they would take stats. A bunch of people sit in a circle and talk. There's a clipboard with contact info, in case someone needs to call another member for support. There's no attendence record, no roster to keep track of who fell off the wagon. People get coins for staying clean and that's it.

It's a farking support group.

And even if the "success rate" is actually the same as beating it alone, would you rather do it alone or have people to lean on for support?
 
2012-12-28 12:36:02 AM  

robodog: My sole problem with AA isn't really AA's fault, it's that judges de facto force people to attend a religious organization. That and people forced to attend by court decree instead of their own volition have about a 0% chance to actually get sober (like any detox/sobriety program).


AA has nothing to do with that. They don't recommend it, and they don't really like people there who don't want to be there. They're not against it, they just don't have anything to do with the judicial system, and they're getting to babysit all these hostile lawbreakers.

TimeCubeFan: Granted it's an episode of Penn & Teller's Bull$*i+, but they do provide quite a few sources. AA is very secretive about their "stats" so it's not surprising there aren't decimal-point-specific figures, but these are close approximations. Enough to get a general idea of their effectiveness. Hope that helps, and I'm glad you asked for sources rather than just buying into something I or anyone said. Cheers!


AA has no "stats," dipshiat. They do not keep track of who is coming or going, how many people are at the meetings, no one has any meeting that they're "supposed" to attend, and it's anonymous. It's not a farking secret---they don't know and don't count.
 
2012-12-28 12:38:52 AM  

moops: AA doesn't recruit, it only aims to attract people who want to address their addiction.


ANd, of course, minister to all those guilty heathens that the courts force into AA classes and such. Sorry, but when you have court ordered membership, pretending it's "only for people who want the help" is bullshiat.0

So how is it a cult?

lol. Talk about low hanging fruit.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

Looks to me like it fits every damn description in the dictionary.
 
2012-12-28 12:41:40 AM  

cryinoutloud: AA has no "stats," dipshiat.


If my success rate was the same as "don't bother to do anything", then I wouldn't keep stats either, dipshiat.

/farking dipshiat.
 
2012-12-28 03:48:53 AM  
Due to the nature of AA any stats will be at best off secondary sources like offenders sentenced to AA who relapsed but as I alluded to earlier those stats will of COURSE be bad because no sobriety program can succeed when admittance isn't voluntary, an addict has to want to get clean before there's any chance of anything working. I'm neither pro nor anti-AA, what I am is anti establishment via court order, like always mixing religion with government is bad for both of them.
 
2012-12-28 06:44:01 AM  
He shoulda just said he was there for the meeting.
As far as "alcoholism" goes - there is no such thing! If you don't wanna drink alcohol - don't. Duh.
 
2012-12-28 07:26:58 AM  
There are no rosters, dues or membership fees in AA. Membership is anonymous so any stats are not fact based.
 
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