moefuggenbrew: Worldwalker, BSABSVR:.The towers had extensive maintenance done to the elevator shafts prior to 9/11. This process was long. The elevator shafts have direct access to the support beams. If you look into the company contracted for this job and the security company for the trade centers you find some interesting people, such a Bush's brother. The records of the type and duration of 'work' that was actually performed on the elevator shafts has conveniently been destroyed in the collapse and the company conveniently has no comment.Furthermore, saying it would have been easier or more convenient to do something one way does not disprove it was done another way.There was a 'stream of molten steel' flowing at ground level, one firefighter described it as "like lava flowing around a volcano". Countless witnesses of multiple explosions 'boom boom boom boom boom one floor at a time'Why are people so resistant to this hard scientific information?To begin to accept the possibility that the government is involved is like opening Pandora's box, it challenges your fundamental view of the events and thus world view. And if you look at your view of the world as your home, you will defend your home. This is known as cognitive dissidence.Don't believe me, ask the people that do this for a living: Experts speak out
Sgeo: A bunch of namedrops to make sure everyone interested sees this:Autumn Moone:Walker:Nasty_McFilth: A Shambling Mound: kombat_unit:Stopping the loading before it changes to the new page fixes it, at least for me on Chrome.
Worldwalker: moefuggenbrew: halleyscomet:It fell at free fall speed through the path of greatest resistance. There was molten steel found, on December 13th at ground level despite heavy rain and fire suppressants being doused on it. This can be caused by something known as Thermite.Thermite is not, in fact, some sort of magical super-explosive, no matter what the truthers think.It's powdered aluminum, iron oxide, and a binder. Basically, aluminum and rust. I made some in my high school chemistry class *mumble* years ago (long enough ago so the teacher said "hey, don't do that" instead of having me arrested for terrorism). The critical thing about thermite is that it doesn't explode; it burns. It burns really hot (and puts out an impressive amount of white light, which is what alerted my chemistry teacher). For this reason, it's great for cutting things. It will burn happily right through anything in its path until it burns out.But it's still not a magical super-explosive. Or any kind of explosive.As I understand it, the truthers' basic idea is that the WTC towers and building 7 were destroyed by a controlled demolition -- the typical "building implosion" that companies like CDI do.There's one critical thing they're leaving out: It can't be done overnight, or even over a weekend. The setup. For even a small building it takes multiple weeks at a minimum -- and this in a totally vacant building, where as many demolition workers as needed have a total right to be at any time they want, and to do their work openly. They don't just hang a few satchel charges from some pillars, either. They spend those weeks drilling carefully-placed holes to weaken support columns, sometimes even cutting away parts of those columns, and further holes to put their charges in. Exact timing is critical so the detonation is usually computer-controlled. And for even a small building, it requires enormous amounts of wire to connect each series of charges to the controller to set it off at the right time. Again, you can't do this overnight. You can't do this over a long weekend. You can't do this over a couple of weeks. And if you're doing it on the sly -- somehow rigging the WTC to collapse with nobody knowing what you're doing -- it would take probably a year or more. What are the odds that nobody in all that time would notice what was going on? This is not a neat, tidy process.Then there's the sheer number of people who would have to be involved. This is not something that Joe Boomo can do. There's a reason people who want their buildings demolished call in professionals (and if you're trying to do it in secret, you certainly don't want some amateur botching the job and leaving the evidence around in plain view, where every single person, not just a few "elite" people on the Intarwebz, would see it). So not only would the staff of at least one, probably multiple, major demolitions companies be involved, but they'd be working on it for weeks or months. They would of course all have to be keeping the secret. So would their families, who would otherwise question why Daddy and his whole company went to do some secret work for two months and wouldn't say what it was. So would their other clients -- if nobody could book time with a demolitions company for the months of July or August of 2001, they'd notice. So would the entire maintenance staff of the buildings in question -- too easy for them to notice something amiss otherwise. We're talking about a conspiracy here involving literally thousands of people ... a conspiracy to cover up a government committing mass murder of its own citizens ... and supposedly not a single one of these thousands of people blew the whistle? "They threatened their families" wouldn't work on all of them. There are plenty of people without families -- or whose families would agree that exposing this horrible crime and enormous cover-up would be worth the risk -- to blow that whistle. Think about it: thousands of people who were, and still are, keeping the secret of a staggering crime for over a decade now.And then we get to the matter of the airplanes. Four planes and all their passengers, to be exact. If they didn't knock down the buildings, where did they go? Were they all somehow secretly "disappeared", even the ones on Flight 93 who were talking to their families on cell phones?If the government wanted to do this ... wouldn't it have been easier and simpler (Occam's Razor here) just to suborn a suitable number of Al-Quaida members or just wanna-be's and point them in the right direction? Why go through all this elaborate hoax involving months of time and thousands of people when you could do it with just 19 people and kill them in the process?One final note about building strength: In my old hometown, many years ago, a drugstore burned. Think your typical CVS (it was actually a local place called McLanahan's) with a floor or two of small apartments above it. Like most of the people in town, I wandered by to look at the resulting ruins a few days later. The thing I noticed most particularly was that a heavy steel I-beam which crossed the store from side to side (probably supporting the upper floors) had sagged like a wet noodle. No thermite. No explosives. No jet fuel. Just the stuff you'd find in your typical CVS, with a bit of an emphasis on stuffed animals in university colors. And the center of that beam, over a distance of perhaps forty feet, had sagged a couple of yards. Typical structure fire, remember, and the fire company was on the scene very quickly. Now scale that up to a multi-story building whose entire structure depends on the rigidity of steel beams ... the same kind of steel beams that lost their rigidity so readily in the McLanahan's fire.
tuxq: I love that people immediately smug up when a conspiracy is thrown their way. As if even pondering the idea for a moment would make them retarded. What it would make you is unbias... not retarded.I'm not saying to believe this or anything else, I'm just saying. People who consider both ideas don't generally react in a smug way.
VespaGuy: tuxq: I love that people immediately smug up when a conspiracy is thrown their way. As if even pondering the idea for a moment would make them retarded. What it would make you is unbias... not retarded.I'm not saying to believe this or anything else, I'm just saying. People who consider both ideas don't generally react in a smug way.You speak as if "both ideas" deserve the same consideration.
moefuggenbrew: T.rex: People who believe in reverse logic such as this, also probably think George Bush knocked down the Twin Towers to allow him to go to war with Iraq.[cdn-www.i-am-bored.com image 360x320]
moefuggenbrew: pxlboy: moefuggenbrew: halleyscometYou can fast forward to 1:13 to view the section on building 7 if you don't want to watch the entire movie.Same LinkYou don't appear to have a lot of company in this thread. Probably best to bow out now rather than continue to dig that hole.Personal insults do not dispute facts.
Kimpak: This movie was 2 hours of Batman getting his arse kicked, followed by a lame reference to Robin. Did not like.
Autumn Moone: Sgeo: Clicking the link takes me to a rant about the Bill of Rights, no mention of Sandy Hook or Batman (except for some story on the side about the Batman shooting being staged)Me too....it loads the right article and displays for about 3-5 seconds and then reloads the page with this Bill of Rights rant. I can't seem to stop it at the right article.
Sgeo: Clicking the link takes me to a rant about the Bill of Rights, no mention of Sandy Hook or Batman (except for some story on the side about the Batman shooting being staged)
kombat_unit: Ecobuckeye: Any time you think you might believe this was a hoax, go back and look at the picture of Carlee Soto.Think what was a hoax, 26 dead people?
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