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(Tech Crunch)   Remember how that newspaper published names and addresses of gun owners? Well, do unto others   (techcrunch.com) divider line 1049
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33335 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Dec 2012 at 6:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-27 07:48:19 AM  
The majority of murders are committed by young men in the 17-29 age bracket with the most likely murderers being males aged 20-24. Addressing violent aggression in this demographic has got to be the key focus if the real goal is reducing violent crime.
 
2012-12-27 07:49:47 AM  

feckingmorons: Triumph: Personally, I would think that a map of gun permit holders would be useful in helping burglars figure out which homes to avoid, not target.
No matter how you look at it, no public good is served by publishing that.

Ironically, this incident is about freedom and the irresponsible use of technology, which is all that the gun debate is really about also.

No it this incident is about poor journalism and intimidation.    This particular journalistic creation of a news story, as opposed to what we normally believe to a journalist's job to be - objective reporting of the news, has been done before, including The Roanoke Times publishing of all the concealed weapons permit holders in Virgina at their newspaper website.   That of course turned out to be a colossal error and the data has been taken down; ostensibly because of errors, but the newspaper leaders and reporter had their personal information published online and were quite scared.  However no bomb was delivered to his home.

The newspaper of record in Memphis also did this.  Theirs is still up, but out of date as the residents of Tennessee urged their elected officials to make that information confidential and available to law enforcement only much like our driver license information has been for quite some time.   The Virginia and Tennessee newspapers publishing of such information was indeed the impetus of many state laws making that information confidential.

While you may have your own opinion on it, one that was shared by an unnamed young woman during a hearing in Tennessee is clearly an important message.   She said she followed all the laws, got her gun and permit legally because she feared her ex-husband.  He now knows where she lives because the newspaper acted without caring about women like her and now she has to move again.

Journalistic integrity is gone, it is all agenda driven sensationalization.


Journalistic integrity was the first thought I had.
 
2012-12-27 07:51:12 AM  

Command1: [www.practicaltacticaltraining.com image 800x600]


You know who else believes in gun control?

www.wherejesuswalked.org

thejewsdidthis.jpg
 
2012-12-27 07:51:54 AM  

kinkkerbelle: The majority of murders are committed by young men in the 17-29 age bracket with the most likely murderers being males aged 20-24. Addressing violent aggression in this demographic has got to be the key focus if the real goal is reducing violent crime.


In WjMorris' eyes, every male 20-24 is already a murderer.

What is your source for this?
 
2012-12-27 07:53:08 AM  

davidphogan: Something I'm wondering: How does the rule from the FArQ apply when Fark links to personal information?


Fark doesn't want to see personal contact info posted in threads, for just this reason: 99% of the time, it's done in hopes that people will see it and harass the person whose info has been posted. This link was to the story of what was happening without being a direct link to specific contact info.
 
2012-12-27 07:53:09 AM  
Honestly, I really don't get why posting people's addresses like this is not illegal as all hell.


Shiat like this invites, if not incites, confrontations.
 
2012-12-27 07:54:06 AM  

Onkel Buck: Well it's pretty much becoming a war, so all's fair.


Mean Daddy: I think the point that is being missed is what John Lott was trying to make in his books is that the thought or threat of someone having a concealed weapon was enough of a deterrent. Now a criminal knows where the guns aren't and in theory, can target the non-gun permitted homes.


rlv.zcache.com

I would hate for one of those folks to be inadvertently protected from harm because someone who would hurt them didn't know they were unarmed. Have the courage of your convictions for the love of god. You despise guns so very much, make a statement that you won't allow them in your home for the world to see.
 
2012-12-27 07:54:45 AM  

great_tigers: kinkkerbelle: The majority of murders are committed by young men in the 17-29 age bracket with the most likely murderers being males aged 20-24. Addressing violent aggression in this demographic has got to be the key focus if the real goal is reducing violent crime.

In WjMorris' eyes, every male 20-24 is already a murderer.

What is your source for this?


FBI Crime data:

Link
 
2012-12-27 07:56:06 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Someone on Fark was pushing this kind of thing the other day:


Liberal plant, overzealous staffer, etc.

I'd take all the sturm und drang over the first list more seriously, if for every 'mah guns make me safer than you unarmed sheeple' there was a flurry of 'You're Not Helping'. Maybe now there will.
 
2012-12-27 07:57:59 AM  

great_tigers: kinkkerbelle: The majority of murders are committed by young men in the 17-29 age bracket with the most likely murderers being males aged 20-24. Addressing violent aggression in this demographic has got to be the key focus if the real goal is reducing violent crime.

In WjMorris' eyes, every male 20-24 is already a murderer.

What is your source for this?


Link

Sorry, gave you the wrong table before.
 
2012-12-27 07:58:23 AM  
Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?
 
2012-12-27 07:58:29 AM  
Golly, that was fast.

sinschild: I would hate for one of those folks to be inadvertently protected from harm because someone who would hurt them didn't know they were unarmed. Have the courage of your convictions for the love of god. You despise guns so very much, make a statement that you won't allow them in your home for the world to see.


So you have the same courage of your own convictions to have that sign in your front yard, right? If your name and address wound up in the local paper as a gun owner, you'd stand right up and pull a Colonel Jessup on all the pansy gun-grabbers, right?

C'mon, ITG. Stand loud and proud. Announce it to the world.
 
2012-12-27 07:59:03 AM  

GAT_00: iq_in_binary: Put me and my roommate and girlfriend in danger

How?  Isn't the whole argument that if people know you have a gun you're safe?


The information could be used to target homes that had handguns and if you wait until no one is home the gun most likely won't be very dangerous (guns don't kill people, people kill people), then steal the gun.

The information could also be used to target homes without guns, not 100% accurate since rifles and shotguns don't require a permit and could still be in the house.
 
2012-12-27 08:00:29 AM  

liquidpoo: Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?


Only in the same school district and age bracket.
 
2012-12-27 08:00:42 AM  
binary iq


If you were on this list what would you do again?

Because I almost made it to the list myself. I used to live in Rockland county, and never left a forwarding address.

If I had ever completed the pistol "permit" I would be on it. The insane requirements of the permit were what got me to buy a shotgun and rifle to begin with. I know a few guys from the range whose houses are outed. I don't imagine they're happy.

Gat

You don't get it do you? I mean on a very basic level, you just don't seem able to connect the dots.

If you advertise that you have a gun, you're basically threatening everyone around you. Thats irresponsible gun ownership dude. If you ever read anything, like American Rifleman, you would see that in their self-defense section most of the time, the potential victims only had to flash their gun to stop a crime.
 
2012-12-27 08:01:31 AM  
Onkel Buck: Well it's pretty much becoming a war, so all's fair.

So is baking cakes, cupcakes, storage unit auction brokering, whaling and anything else that you can film for 400.00 an episode and call "WARS!". It's like a big commercial for "the biggest prick wins". It's like were being groomed for a very convenient holocaust and we get to do all the work.
 
2012-12-27 08:01:34 AM  

liquidpoo: Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?


Why do the people who are upset over this are fine when it's othe people's info posted. How many oppose the sex offender registry?
 
2012-12-27 08:03:19 AM  

kinkkerbelle: great_tigers: kinkkerbelle: The majority of murders are committed by young men in the 17-29 age bracket with the most likely murderers being males aged 20-24. Addressing violent aggression in this demographic has got to be the key focus if the real goal is reducing violent crime.

In WjMorris' eyes, every male 20-24 is already a murderer.

What is your source for this?

Link

Sorry, gave you the wrong table before.


Nice info on both links. Thanks!

It is sad, 100 percent of all murderers ages 5-8 are white males.
 
2012-12-27 08:08:50 AM  

PopularFront: Just what this debate needed, more evidence that gun owners are a vindictive bunch of douches who are eager to escalate a conflict. I'm sure the general public finds this a very reassuring quality in someone who carries a concealed gun.


Not everyone carries a concealed weapon because it's "fun" or "our right". Some do it because we have a valid, demonstrable need to do so to preserve our own lives. When names and addresses are published in an easily accessible format when the people they are trying to hide from wouldn't normally know how to access that information,  public or not, they are putting those people at risk.

My ex has already done prison time for trying to kill me. Not enough of it, IMO. I am armed to the teeth for a reason. If I were trying to hide from him and someone outed my address so he could just be surfing the net one day, find it and say "So THAT'S where that biatch is hiding!" I'd be even more terrified of him than I already am and I'd be beyond upset. My entire family would have to move. I wouldn't put it past him to harm my Grandma, my Mom, my Sister or even our son, just to get to me. The guy is not stable, is determined to "get me" eventually and will not take his meds. Why make things easy for him?

What they did was inexcusable. Do not put this on gun owners. Turnabout is always fair play. The difference is, my life could be on the line, and I'm sure some of the people they outed do have their lives on the line. Where's the justification in making them easy targets? There is NONE. If someone is going to come after you, and you know they will if they can find you, they should at least have to work at it.
 
2012-12-27 08:09:15 AM  

R.A.Danny: I would think that any real journalist would respect the privacy of someone not directly making active news. Someone with an actual ax to grind or that wants to take advantage of a tragedy to get themselves noticed for their "work" shouldn't b surprised that they get some push back.


Well said. This is shoddy journalism.
 
2012-12-27 08:09:32 AM  
Since the government requires you to disclose your checking account details so that they may deposit your welfare check and/or tax return, then why not publish this "public information"? I would also like a copy of your birth certificate, thank you very much.
 
2012-12-27 08:10:08 AM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Golly, that was fast.

sinschild: I would hate for one of those folks to be inadvertently protected from harm because someone who would hurt them didn't know they were unarmed. Have the courage of your convictions for the love of god. You despise guns so very much, make a statement that you won't allow them in your home for the world to see.

So you have the same courage of your own convictions to have that sign in your front yard, right? If your name and address wound up in the local paper as a gun owner, you'd stand right up and pull a Colonel Jessup on all the pansy gun-grabbers, right?

C'mon, ITG. Stand loud and proud. Announce it to the world.


Only a fool lets their enemy choose the time and place of a conflict. I would not stand up vocally and make sure they knew exactly where to look. I would note their names and bide my time. Threaten my family in any way for your stupid little political agenda and you will come up missing.

/not an ITG.
/Just wants everyone to get along and respect each others rights.
/Strange that they use the 1st to attack the second, I wonder if they think they are immune?
 
2012-12-27 08:10:29 AM  
And people wonder why so many unregistered weapons are out there. It is like this whole medical pot legalization thing. You have to register to get a card, so that they can track who is using it "legally" (it is still illegal at the federal level, remember). So what happens if tomorrow the feds decide to enforce the federal law? That's right...they have ready made lists of which doors to knock on to make their arrests. Is that likely to happen? No, not with dope. But perhaps with guns. Most gun owners I know here in MI have at least 2 or 3 unregistered firearms in addition to the registered ones, just in case the government ever decides to disarm the public. I know several people who have never registered a single weapon with anyone*, and these guys have some pretty nice collections. The thought is that if they don't register them, nobody will know they have them, so nobody (government or general public) will treat them differently because of it. I'm not sure I follow that thought process, but there it is. I do understand the general idea though, that public records are publically available and because of the internet we should all assume that our public records are known by everyone. The thing is, most people don't know everything that is contained in their "public record", and just how much additional information can be amassed by extrapolation just from that information.

*One guy I know in particular has worn the same unregistered, illegally concealed revolver every day of his life since I first met him back in the early 60's. It is always loaded, and to my knowledge he has never used it apart from target shooting on his own property, though he may well have used it to put down his dying livestock at some point. I have a hard time thinking of him as anything but a responsible gun owner.
 
2012-12-27 08:10:44 AM  

kinkkerbelle: great_tigers: kinkkerbelle: The majority of murders are committed by young men in the 17-29 age bracket with the most likely murderers being males aged 20-24. Addressing violent aggression in this demographic has got to be the key focus if the real goal is reducing violent crime.

In WjMorris' eyes, every male 20-24 is already a murderer.

What is your source for this?

FBI Crime data:

Link


I do find it interesting, ages 13-34 the black race commits more murders than the white race in every demographic category. Ages 34 and over, the white race commits more murders than the black race in every demographic. I would look at this end of the spectrum as more of a lifestyle choice. One would have to think that the number of murderers 13-34 of the black race is influenced by gang related violence.
 
2012-12-27 08:12:45 AM  

ktybear: Kimothy: Jesus, they're all farking children. Grow up, especially if you own a damn gun.

Done in bloody one

Your gun debate is boring.

But the US loves the sound of its own voice, a constant drone across the world, like a petulant child with too many toys to clean up.


If only other countries had the ability to not listen to our own internal debates...
 
2012-12-27 08:13:37 AM  

Warlordtrooper: liquidpoo: Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?

Why do the people who are upset over this are fine when it's othe people's info posted. How many oppose the sex offender registry?


What crime did the gun owners commit again?
 
2012-12-27 08:14:56 AM  

sinschild: Only a fool lets their enemy choose the time and place of a conflict. I would not stand up vocally and make sure they knew exactly where to look. I would note their names and bide my time. Threaten my family in any way for your stupid little political agenda and you will come up missing.


So you post that sign but have zero courage of your own convictions to put it up on your own lawn, and we get a bonus ITG moment thrown in as well.

I think that says pretty much everything right there.
 
2012-12-27 08:15:03 AM  

feckingmorons: The fourth estate used to be respected,


Maybe a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, but not on this planet.
 
2012-12-27 08:15:31 AM  

Warlordtrooper: liquidpoo: Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?

Why do the people who are upset over this are fine when it's othe people's info posted. How many oppose the sex offender registry?


Why not a spousal abuse, DWI, tax fraud or Jay walking registry?

I, for one, oppose ANY offender registry.
 
2012-12-27 08:15:37 AM  

liquidpoo: Warlordtrooper: liquidpoo: Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?

Why do the people who are upset over this are fine when it's othe people's info posted. How many oppose the sex offender registry?

What crime did the gun owners commit again?


Every single one of them is a potential murderer. WE MUST PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM THEM.
 
2012-12-27 08:15:42 AM  

liquidpoo: Warlordtrooper: liquidpoo: Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?

Why do the people who are upset over this are fine when it's othe people's info posted. How many oppose the sex offender registry?

What crime did the gun owners commit again?


They sought to the ability to protect themselves. This is treason to the idea that your government is responsible for you from the cradle to the grave and is just about the only capital crime acceptable to hoplophobes.
 
2012-12-27 08:15:44 AM  
This whole mess of publishing publicly available information is like living in an apartment with thin walls and telling the neighborhood about the sex you hear then being upset when your neighbors tell everyone about the sex YOU had.
 
2012-12-27 08:15:47 AM  
I'm sure it has been said more then once in this thread, but in case not, here goes.

Where the fark is the HERO tag when you need it!!!

This lawyer has done more to redeem the reputation of lawyers then the Goldwater law firm has done to destroy it.
 
2012-12-27 08:15:56 AM  
Well, journalists are doing a lot more harm than registered gun owners.
 
2012-12-27 08:21:41 AM  

liquidpoo: Warlordtrooper: liquidpoo: Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?

Why do the people who are upset over this are fine when it's othe people's info posted. How many oppose the sex offender registry?

What crime did the gun owners commit again?


It's not about crimes it's about the hypocrisy
 
2012-12-27 08:22:05 AM  
Well, this is the ultimate logical outcome of Google maps and facebook style social media. But oh wait, Computer Scientists, engineers, and MBA holders don't study history or philosophy, where this crap is ALREADY FIGURED OUT. God I hate everyone who pisses on the liberal arts. They're getting what they deserve now, yeah that means you, fark.com. You should be cheering this on.
 
2012-12-27 08:22:24 AM  
i.imgur.com

Fark those journalists who published the list of gun owners. Two can play at that game, don't be surprised when someone, ahem, shoots back, figuratively speaking.
 
2012-12-27 08:23:14 AM  
Then::

rlv.zcache.com

Media: "Well, you must be alright with us publishing your home addresses then."

Now:

images.sodahead.com

And lo the world learns yet another lesson about the ITG.
 
MFK
2012-12-27 08:24:39 AM  
I am not a gun owner. I have no problem with people wanting a gun to hunt or perhaps to defend their home. What I have a problem with is military style weapons proliferating like crazy into the hands of whoever wants one because they think it's their "right" to amass personal arsenals. It's never really bothered me, however, until the last couple years when these mass shooting events seem to happen every other week or so. And anytime one happens everyone throws up their hands and says "welp, there's nothing we can do. They bought their guns legally."

I am pissed off that because I have a huge problem with this sort of wholesale killing, that I am labeled a "gun grabber who hates the constitution". It pisses me off that the way the NRA and the gun "enthusiasts" frame the debate it's either "all guns for all people" or "the government is taking away all our guns" as if there is no sane, sensible middle ground. I'm tired of not having a voice in this debate. I'm tired of reading about a massacre of school children (farking CHILDREN!) and having the gun "enthusiasts" bring up Tim McVeigh as an example of why we shouldn't bother doing any gun control at all. I'm tired of reading about slaughters and killings with these guns that have no business in civilian hands just so Randy can look badass in his bedroom mirror with his army gun.

I come from a rural state where hunting is a legit activity and fully support guns for that. But not people hunting and that's what AR-15's are for and anyone who tells you otherwise is a farking liar.
 
2012-12-27 08:25:09 AM  

Rincewind53: This is my hometown newspaper, so I'm getting a kick, etc...

iq_in_binary: They got off easy. If I was on that list I'd post everything on them I can find. And I have access to far more useful tools than that lawyer does. Where their children went to school, their private cell phone numbers, their spouses employers, everything I could find on them AND their family.

Maybe then people would quit trying this shiat to intimidate people.

It was all public information, Mr. ITG. All they did was put it on a map. If anyone had wanted to, they could have compiled this list at any point, at any time.


Yes, but "anyone" could not have published it in a newspaper, thus making it available to those who have neither the time nor the inclination to compile it themselves.

Were the author and editor and publisher of the paper within their rights to print the map? Yes. Just as they would have been within their rights to publish photos of the dead bodies from Sandy Hook Elementary. Part of their job is to exercise editorial discretion--to draw the line that separates what they can do from what they should do. That line is subjective, and opinions will differ as to whether what they did was appropriate.

I think what they did was silly and stupid and childish, and indicative of an emotional, knee-jerk reaction of hatred toward guns and gun owners that is not based in any real understanding of the fact that the overwhelming majority of gun owners are just as peaceful and law-abiding as the editorial board of The Journal News.
 
2012-12-27 08:25:14 AM  
That'll dun larn ya.
 
2012-12-27 08:27:22 AM  

Balchinian: And people wonder why so many unregistered weapons are out there. It is like this whole medical pot legalization thing....Most gun owners I know here in MI have at least 2 or 3 unregistered firearms in addition to the registered ones, just in case the government ever decides to disarm the public....One guy I know in particular has worn the same unregistered, illegally concealed revolver every day of his life .... I have a hard time thinking of him as anything but a responsible gun owner.



Wow. Just. Wow. What in blazes are you trying to insinuate other than your admited association with criminals? Your not helping any gun owner with this steaming pile of derp.
 
2012-12-27 08:27:32 AM  
Well, this article made my day a little more enjoyable than it started out. Good for them.
 
2012-12-27 08:29:02 AM  

Frederf: It must suck to live in some piece of trash neighborhood where a GED is an accomplishment, you aren't a day's drive from an ocean, turning left is a sport, and God is something other than an obvious attempt of humanity to humor itself about death and morality.

Me, I get up every day in a place where not only is a gun not necessary for anyone, it's not even considered. We are just educated, busy people who just live life without masturbatory fantasies of cowboys and indians. As much as I like to wish you or more realistically your progeny to extract yourselves from this redneck stupor, it really is for the best for all the sooner your genetic line finds a pistol on the seat of the pickup and mercifully smears their nervous tissue harmlessly about the cabin.

Dark ages people with old ways of thinking need to go away so the actual future of humanity can move on.


Unfortunately the future goes to those with the most fertile loins, and I think we all know which class of humanity that is. Poverty and wretched parenting aren't going anywhere. Coincidentally, that's the same reason gun owners want more guns, and frankly, I can't say I blame them.
 
2012-12-27 08:31:07 AM  

MFK: What I have a problem with is military style weapons proliferating like crazy into the hands of whoever wants one because they think it's their "right" to amass personal arsenals.


All guns capable of firing more than one bullet per trigger pull, i.e. "military style guns" have been heavily regulated since the 1930s. If you're referring to utterly irrelevant cosmetics like a plastic stock instead of a wood stock, well, you're barking up the wrong tree.
 
2012-12-27 08:33:39 AM  

Warlordtrooper: liquidpoo: Warlordtrooper: liquidpoo: Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?

Why do the people who are upset over this are fine when it's othe people's info posted. How many oppose the sex offender registry?

What crime did the gun owners commit again?

It's not about crimes it's about the hypocrisy


I think the difference he's insinuating is that the sex offender registry actually has the addresses of "proven" criminals (or college kids who got unlucky while peeing in a shrub) whereas locations of gun owners or journalists aren't criminals and thus didn't do anything to "deserve" it. So at least from one perspective it's a slightly misaligned hypocrisy. The sex offender registry, in theory, IS about the crime. It's a lot easier to say "i want to map where all the people who have raped children live" vs. "i want to map where all the people with weapon x or preference y live" when convincing timid moms to sign off on stuff like this.

If you guys want this tasty government data about where people live who like this or that, write a free iphone game aimed at your target market (eg something that would appeal to people who dont like guns, in the examples above) and get them to click ok when you install it. get them to hand over their GPS coords, likes, dislikes, photos, etc. free of hassle and charge! if it's a company logo on their software/services and not the big bad government, people are more than happy to fill out the forms. Bury it in a TOS writeup and you can get away with anything.

/not a defence of big bad government
 
2012-12-27 08:33:40 AM  

liquidpoo: Warlordtrooper: liquidpoo: Why don't all the people that think that the gun owners shouldn't be upset post their addresses and real names? I mean it's the same principal right?

Why do the people who are upset over this are fine when it's othe people's info posted. How many oppose the sex offender registry?

What crime did the gun owners commit again?


They disagreed with liberals.
 
2012-12-27 08:33:57 AM  

GAT_00: Isn't the whole argument that if people know you have a gun you're safe?


I thought the whole point of owning a gun is to scare people

Which is it?
 
2012-12-27 08:34:03 AM  
ITG bullshiat aside, we all realize that neither of these things (publishing gun owners, publishing journal staff) are appropriate behavior, right? While whether you own a given product or whether you work for a given company are strictly speaking not private data, and the information being accessible isn't a problem, compiling a list of either without the explicit consent of the people on the list, especially for the purposes of a creepy political hit list, pretty thoroughly violates the reasonable expectation of privacy that most societies consider worth protecting.

Basically, slap a fine on all of these idiots on both sides and tell them they can start participating in discussions regarding the second amendment when they start respecting the fourth and the ninth, or at minimum acting like adults instead of exceptionally retarded children.

Also, given the outright glorification of spree killers by the media, and their insistence on telling everyone that can hear it how very, very important these loons are and how they should have a lasting impact on policy, and how we should all pay attention to them and think about them all the time:

The Muthaship: Well, journalists are doing a lot more harm than registered gun owners.


That. Nobody's going to go murder a bunch of people just 'cause a gun's handy. They might go and murder a bunch of people because the media forces the entire population of america to pay attention to their bullshiat, though. I mean, it's a pretty reliable way to get your crazy-ass manifesto and so on out, at minimum.
 
2012-12-27 08:34:52 AM  
So basically, the journalists posted a big map of where criminals can attempt to acquire (steal) firearms when nobody is home... and the anti-gun folks are happy with this, even though they want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

And for the record, posting the information on the newspaper staff was just as asinine.

Everyone needs to grow the fark up.

/gun owner
 
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