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(Jalopnik)   The 10 most desirable cars of 2012? Seriously?   (jalopnik.com) divider line 71
    More: Unlikely, wish lists, Jalopnik  
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5827 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Dec 2012 at 8:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-27 09:11:47 AM

iron_city_ap: There are many more desireable cars than what are on this list.


Yeah, if they used sales figures to include the Focus, then I've got some bad news for them... no one really "desires" to own a compact Ford, they just can't afford anything better.
 
2012-12-27 09:48:57 AM
I thought this looked pretty cool, and for sub $40k its very reasonable.
cache.jalopnik.com

And then I saw the back end.

www.morgan3wheeler.co.uk

Meh.
 
2012-12-27 10:32:27 AM

MindStalker: I thought this looked pretty cool, and for sub $40k its very reasonable.
[cache.jalopnik.com image 640x360]

And then I saw the back end.

[www.morgan3wheeler.co.uk image 690x294]

Meh.


The Morgan is a cool idea but the 3-wheeler design on skinny tires just screams "deathtrap".
 
2012-12-27 10:45:20 AM
They still make Vipers?
 
2012-12-27 10:47:56 AM

abhorrent1: They still make Vipers?


They just started over.
 
2012-12-27 11:04:55 AM
I wonder how much less he could care that an AMG classic would be more fun to drive than an Audi S4 Avant?
 
2012-12-27 11:30:37 AM
List needs the Tesla Model S. Seriously. If you don't think it is a great car, you probably have a political axe to grind.
 
2012-12-27 11:38:35 AM

Hollie Maea: List needs the Tesla Model S. Seriously. If you don't think it is a great car, you probably have a political axe to grind.


My opinion in it is that anyone who thinks it's awesome or thinks it's terrible probably has a political axe to grind. It has lots of cool pluses and plenty of problems, too
 
2012-12-27 12:18:39 PM

The Muthaship: My opinion in it is that anyone who thinks it's awesome or thinks it's terrible probably has a political axe to grind. It has lots of cool pluses and plenty of problems, too


I have no axe to grind, but I know there are problems, even with consumer perception of its limitations.

If anyone was a candidate for that car, it was my father. I suggested it to him. I figured, since he doesn't travel by car much and put a fraction over 10k miles in 3 years on his leased 750iL, range and needing a charging station availability shouldn't really be an issue. A fully loaded, Model S Performance is right in line with the cost of his car of choice, his response, "What if I want to take a road trip?" which he never does. After pointing that out to him, point to his wife's car, and pointing to a picture of his boat and reminding him that he lives in a state surrounded by water, "I'd still rather be able to take one if I want to" and proceeded to sign another lease for another 7.

Thus the problem. Even someone who is an ideal candidate for such a vehicle still sees a shortcoming. Even if the shortcoming is one that would not affect him in the least.
 
2012-12-27 01:52:15 PM

The Muthaship: Hollie Maea: List needs the Tesla Model S. Seriously. If you don't think it is a great car, you probably have a political axe to grind.

My opinion in it is that anyone who thinks it's awesome or thinks it's terrible probably has a political axe to grind. It has lots of cool pluses and plenty of problems, too


What are the main problems, as you see it? Serious question, I just am interested in your perspective.
 
2012-12-27 01:57:56 PM

Bruce Campbell: "What if I want to take a road trip?"


If you get the highest battery size option (yes, yes I know it's not cheap. The list was desirable cars not value ones) then even the proverbial "Trip to Yellowstone" wouldn't be a problem, if there was a DC quickcharger on your route. You could easily drive it 600 miles in a day, only stopping once to charge for less than an hour (lunch stop, for instance).
 
2012-12-27 02:25:48 PM

Bruce Campbell: The Muthaship: My opinion in it is that anyone who thinks it's awesome or thinks it's terrible probably has a political axe to grind. It has lots of cool pluses and plenty of problems, too

I have no axe to grind, but I know there are problems, even with consumer perception of its limitations.

If anyone was a candidate for that car, it was my father. I suggested it to him. I figured, since he doesn't travel by car much and put a fraction over 10k miles in 3 years on his leased 750iL, range and needing a charging station availability shouldn't really be an issue. A fully loaded, Model S Performance is right in line with the cost of his car of choice, his response, "What if I want to take a road trip?" which he never does. After pointing that out to him, point to his wife's car, and pointing to a picture of his boat and reminding him that he lives in a state surrounded by water, "I'd still rather be able to take one if I want to" and proceeded to sign another lease for another 7.

Thus the problem. Even someone who is an ideal candidate for such a vehicle still sees a shortcoming. Even if the shortcoming is one that would not affect him in the least.


Mark the car up by 5K and offer a heavily discounted to free rental program where you borrow some gas car if you want to go on a trip, while your gone your car gets a maintenance check, etc.
 
2012-12-27 02:39:52 PM

Hollie Maea: If you get the highest battery size option (yes, yes I know it's not cheap. The list was desirable cars not value ones) then even the proverbial "Trip to Yellowstone" wouldn't be a problem, if there was a DC quickcharger on your route. You could easily drive it 600 miles in a day, only stopping once to charge for less than an hour (lunch stop, for instance).


I had already assumed the 85kw as the option since that is about the same price point as his current car.
300 miles is the MAX battery distance on the 85kw in range mode, there aren't any supercharging stations within range since there are only 8 in the country. Hotels do not have much accommodation for EVs yet either.
 
2012-12-27 02:48:25 PM

Bruce Campbell: Hollie Maea: If you get the highest battery size option (yes, yes I know it's not cheap. The list was desirable cars not value ones) then even the proverbial "Trip to Yellowstone" wouldn't be a problem, if there was a DC quickcharger on your route. You could easily drive it 600 miles in a day, only stopping once to charge for less than an hour (lunch stop, for instance).

I had already assumed the 85kw as the option since that is about the same price point as his current car.
300 miles is the MAX battery distance on the 85kw in range mode, there aren't any supercharging stations within range since there are only 8 in the country. Hotels do not have much accommodation for EVs yet either.


That'll be true for another 6 months tops.
 
2012-12-27 03:57:57 PM

Hollie Maea: That'll be true for another 6 months tops.


Tesla saying 6 months about anything is like the contractors in "The Money Pit" saying 2 weeks. The Model S was supposed to be a 2010 production vehicle.
 
2012-12-27 04:17:07 PM
Some of you talk a lot of shiat. I've ridden in many Ambassador's and they aren't bad. Think of this for a second - they are used for Taxi service in a country with shiatty roads full of bricks and holes and cows, yet somehow rack up umpteen million of miles. IF IT AINT BROKE DON'T FIX IT.

Some of us like classic cars. To think you can buy a classic car BRAND NEW with updated features (like AC) for 9000$ is very tempting. You could take the thing offroading and aside from ground clearance issues it would survive better than most SUV's you tools drive around.
 
2012-12-28 07:16:59 AM

Hollie Maea: What are the main problems, as you see it?


Besides battery only power being a dead end technology, the batteries in the Tesla's brick (die for good if fully discharged, stranding the driver and costing $40k to replace). Also, the battery is massively heavy, and its placement effects handling adversely.

Still cool cars, but there are drawbacks. Their reliability hasn't been great, but since they are still fairly new, that's forgivable.
 
2012-12-28 10:20:57 AM

The Muthaship: Hollie Maea: What are the main problems, as you see it?

Besides battery only power being a dead end technology, the batteries in the Tesla's brick (die for good if fully discharged, stranding the driver and costing $40k to replace). Also, the battery is massively heavy, and its placement effects handling adversely.

Still cool cars, but there are drawbacks. Their reliability hasn't been great, but since they are still fairly new, that's forgivable.


Ah, three "reasons". Let's see what you've got.

1. battery only power being a dead end technology WTF. This isn't a reason at all. It's a half assed attempt at a philosophical statement/prophesy of the future. You can't prove it right and I can't prove it wrong, since that would require knowledge of the future. However, I would feel pretty secure wagering against it. You can make a lot of money betting against people who haven't researched what they are talking about. Which brings me to...

2. the batteries in the Tesla's brick (die for good if fully discharged, stranding the driver and costing $40k to replace). No they don't. Congratulations! You read a breathy hysterical FUD article that came out a year ago, before the Model S even came out. What you are describing is not a problem for the Model S--you can drive it around the airport parking lot until it stops running and then leave it there for a month and it still won't be bricked. Better continue to watch out, though--you can still "brick" your ICE car if you forget to put the bolt back in your oil pan when you change the oil, and then drive off without noticing a gallon of oil on your driveway.

3. Also, the battery is massively heavy, and its placement effects handling adversely. Don't be ridiculous. The battery is distributed throughout the car at a low height. The car handles extremely well. (Can your car complete the slalom course at 67mph? You can't just make something up and say it's true because you want it to be.

As I expected, you've got nothing. Come back when you have something real based on real facts rather than on the fevered imaginings of your addled mind. I doubt you are going to have much luck with that.
 
2012-12-28 10:28:43 AM

Hollie Maea: As I expected, you've got nothing.


Wow, you really did just want an honest opinion, and you clearly have no axe to grind.

Glad to hear they fixed the bricking on the S. I really would like to see it succeed. I think you can prove battery only power is a dead end technology, though. Unless the charging stations become vastly more common and much quicker. Last I read, the fast charge on most electric cars (which still took something like 30 minutes) shortens the life of the battery significantly. The cost of early replacement results in making them prohibitively expensive. They are a net move backward in mobility. I doubt people will fully embrace that. I think hydrogen is a much better avenue.

And my car slaloms at 74.7 mph. There's a pretty pic of it upthread.
 
2012-12-28 11:31:37 AM

The Muthaship: Wow, you really did just want an honest opinion, and you clearly have no axe to grind.


I did want an honest opinion. You provided nothing of the sort. None of the stuff you said was backed up with facts and citations, and you could have discovered that they were wrong with 2 minutes on google. You chose not to check your assertions. That's not intellectually honest. Even now you are trying to use PRESENT drawbacks of battery technology to call it a "dead end techonlogy" (a FUTURE judgement). That's not intellectually honest.

And my car slaloms at 74.7 mph. There's a pretty pic of it upthread.

The bat wings on the back help with the cornering?
 
2012-12-28 04:48:41 PM

Hollie Maea: The bat wings on the back help with the cornering?


Even that one can be up and running minutes after running out of fuel.
 
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