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(Deseret News)   "Excessively violent movies and their impact on our culture." Because we all know that if we stopped killing each other in movies, then death would just take a holiday   (deseretnews.com) divider line 345
    More: Stupid, Django, Quentin Tarantino  
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3274 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Dec 2012 at 9:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-26 09:45:43 AM
The author's point went down in flames when he decided to blame a single individual instead of talking about the culture as a whole.
 
2012-12-26 09:45:45 AM

Holocaust Agnostic: Because we still live exactly as hunter-gatherers did, noothng at all has changed EXCEPT for TV...


Are you responding seriously to a sarcastic quip at the end of a post so you can ignore everything else in it? Or are you dumb enough to think "Clearly hunter gatherers played too much GTA" was the meat of the argument?

Either way; wow.
 
2012-12-26 09:45:59 AM

Bontesla: What ever happened to blaming the criminal for the crime?


You can't do that. Society is to blame. At some point one person had to have done something bad to them in the past, so obviously they were emotionally scared to the point of this outcome. How could you be so heartless as to suggest that they should be held accountable for their actions when clearly either their parents, teachers, family member, or a bully was to blame for their suffering.
 
2012-12-26 09:46:30 AM

BigBooper: When I was a youngster my daddy took me to movies like Scarface and full metal jacket, we had guns, including machine guns, all over the house, and my toys were GI Joes. And while I went hunting many times with my dad, I never had the urge to kill anyone or any thing. I turned out just fine, and not at all gay, so I'm proof that these things A. do not cause violence, and B. make sure effeminate boys turn out straight.

/true story
//never went to visit a steel mill though


Hope is isn't the Simpsons steel mill.

www.tvgasm.com
 
2012-12-26 09:46:42 AM

Zasteva: runaway06: NRA / "Conservative" slogan
Guns don't kill people. Movies and video games kill people

But only in the US. A movie isn't able to stir up violence in... oh, I don't know... let's say... Bengazi.


3/10.
 
2012-12-26 09:47:31 AM
Ya know, if your dumbass kid is THAT influenced by movies or games or music or whatever, you are a complete and abject failure as a parent.
 
2012-12-26 09:47:53 AM

cryinoutloud: It might make a difference, especially with all those hyper-realistic VIDEO GAMES that we have now.


Hyper-Realistic Video Games? So they're putting on MILES Gear and firing simunition at eachother?

What, they're not?

cryinoutloud:  Has anyone done a comprehensive study, or any kind of study at all, about how these things might affect us as a society?

Yeah. They've done those studies. The ones that aren't horribly biased and poorly conducted have found no causation link between violence in television and video games, and street violence. What they have found correlation AND causation links to are poverty, bullying/abuse and lack of access to mental health services.
 
2012-12-26 09:48:04 AM
Pretty sure all of the mass killings are a symptom of too many people. As the population increases, as will the frequency and size of the killings....it's probably nature's way of controlling the population.
 
2012-12-26 09:49:03 AM

rrife: Pretty sure all of the mass killings are a symptom of too many people. As the population increases, as will the frequency and size of the killings....it's probably nature's way of controlling the population.


Dammit. Bob Barker had it right all the time...
 
2012-12-26 09:49:26 AM

Gunther: Holocaust Agnostic: Because we still live exactly as hunter-gatherers did, noothng at all has changed EXCEPT for TV...

Are you responding seriously to a sarcastic quip at the end of a post so you can ignore everything else in it? Or are you dumb enough to think "Clearly hunter gatherers played too much GTA" was the meat of the argument?

Either way; wow.


What point did he make other than "violence has declined over time ergo violence in media means nothing"?
 
2012-12-26 09:49:51 AM

cryinoutloud: It might make a difference, especially with all those hyper-realistic VIDEO GAMES that we have now. Yes, I said it. How do we know? Has anyone done a comprehensive study, or any kind of study at all, about how these things might affect us as a society? No, of course not, and we never will.

I'm a firm believer that advertising and the consumer culture has harmed us a great deal. Same sort of thing ---it's just words and pictures. We don't have to participate. And yet our country is much, much different than it would have been if we weren't inundated with messages to buy, buy, buy 24 hours a day. How do you know that a lot of exposure to fake violence hasn't somehow affected our way of thinking about things?


I actually did an experiment like that for my sociology class in High School. I had a group play a "violent game" (Freedom Fighters, school only allowed a T rated game) and a non violent (racing game of some kind, I think) and we asked them to measure their anger, stress and happiness before and after.

Guys ended up being calmer, less stressed and less angry after playing the violent game whereas the women got more pissed and angry after playing the violent game.

But hey, it was just a shiatty high school project, nothing more.
/science!
 
2012-12-26 09:50:03 AM
"Our excessively violent culture and its impact on movies." How about that for an article?
 
2012-12-26 09:50:14 AM

DeathCipris: BigBooper: When I was a youngster my daddy took me to movies like Scarface and full metal jacket, we had guns, including machine guns, all over the house, and my toys were GI Joes. And while I went hunting many times with my dad, I never had the urge to kill anyone or any thing. I turned out just fine, and not at all gay, so I'm proof that these things A. do not cause violence, and B. make sure effeminate boys turn out straight.

/true story
//never went to visit a steel mill though

Hope is isn't the Simpsons steel mill.

[www.tvgasm.com image 320x240]


They work hard, and PLAY hard!
 
2012-12-26 09:50:53 AM

WippitGuud: rrife: Pretty sure all of the mass killings are a symptom of too many people. As the population increases, as will the frequency and size of the killings....it's probably nature's way of controlling the population.

Dammit. Bob Barker had it right all the time...


Remember to spay and neuter your pets...also your children.
 
2012-12-26 09:51:28 AM

DeathCipris: BigBooper: When I was a youngster my daddy took me to movies like Scarface and full metal jacket, we had guns, including machine guns, all over the house, and my toys were GI Joes. And while I went hunting many times with my dad, I never had the urge to kill anyone or any thing. I turned out just fine, and not at all gay, so I'm proof that these things A. do not cause violence, and B. make sure effeminate boys turn out straight.

/true story
//never went to visit a steel mill though

Hope is isn't the Simpsons steel mill.

[www.tvgasm.com image 320x240]


Hot stuff, coming through!
 
2012-12-26 09:52:05 AM
I think it has very large consequences on our culture. I err on the "artsy" side of things, but if I were to name my top 100 movies, 3/4 of them would probably feature gun-play pretty heavily. Does that mean I want to censor films, etc? No. That is stupid. But to say that decades of dramatic violence has nothing to do with America's unique problem of real violence is equally as stupid. We obviously have a culture of the stuff.
 
2012-12-26 09:52:05 AM
Murders per 100,000 people in the US in 1991: 9.8
Murders per 100,000 people in the US in 2010: 4.8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Crime_over_ti m e
 
2012-12-26 09:53:28 AM

littlett's: runaway06: Movies and video games kill people

The point of contention is that some, not all, of video games and movies kind of glorify killing. And for some obviously less stable people they might not quite have it all together, well things can possibly start to get fuzzy.

Will I put on a yellow track suit and start hacking people to bits after watching a Kill Bill marathon? Probably not. But I can see a 15-18 year old that idolizes a particular character in a game or a movie having a lapse in judgment.

Does it mean that we should ban violence in TV in movies? No. But in turn if we had any writers worth a damn we wouldn't have to fill in so much time of a movie with it to hide the fact that there isn't any plot advancement and that they only have 20 minutes of actual story that they need to stretch to an hour and forty-five minutes.


But would you be willing to at least put on a tight yellow track-suit and pose with a katana?
 
2012-12-26 09:54:34 AM
I wish to address the elephant in the room in regard to these shootings.

Virtually every single mass shooting going back to Columbine was committed by a male who was not sexually active. These shootings are caused by extreme frustration which causes these men to lash out violently, and sexual frustration plays a huge role. Getting laid every now and again goes a long way in ensuring mental stability, while never getting laid while falling into a routine of loneliness and social isolation is a great way to build mental instability.

Maybe the solution is to legalize prostitution, maybe the problem won't be solved until they invent reasonably sexy robots. But either way, I remain convinced that handjobs save lives.
 
2012-12-26 09:54:48 AM
Pretty sure statistics show overall violent crime has been going down for the last 20 years.
 
2012-12-26 09:54:56 AM
i45.photobucket.com
This movie made me think I could skate.
 
2012-12-26 09:57:39 AM

littlett's: Bontesla: What ever happened to blaming the criminal for the crime?

You can't do that. Society is to blame. At some point one person had to have done something bad to them in the past, so obviously they were emotionally scared to the point of this outcome. How could you be so heartless as to suggest that they should be held accountable for their actions when clearly either their parents, teachers, family member, or a bully was to blame for their suffering.


Lol

I always feel that response is based out of misunderstanding. I'm pretty sure you're mocking the response so this reply isn't specifically for you. Society can do more than it has been doing. For example - better access to cost-effective mental health services for young adults. We, as a society, are fully responsible for the treatment of our most vulnerable.
 
2012-12-26 09:58:10 AM

Great Justice: I wish to address the elephant in the room in regard to these shootings.

Virtually every single mass shooting going back to Columbine was committed by a male who was not sexually active. These shootings are caused by extreme frustration which causes these men to lash out violently, and sexual frustration plays a huge role. Getting laid every now and again goes a long way in ensuring mental stability, while never getting laid while falling into a routine of loneliness and social isolation is a great way to build mental instability.

Maybe the solution is to legalize prostitution, maybe the problem won't be solved until they invent reasonably sexy robots. But either way, I remain convinced that handjobs save lives.


God bless you, sir.

I want this to be the national discussion.

/"We chose to get laid in this decade and do the other one, not because they are easy but because I am hard!"
//"I knew Jack Kennedy, and you, sir, do not lay like Jack Kennedy"
///"Ask not, what your prostitute can do for you; ask what you can do for a prostitute!"
 
2012-12-26 09:58:16 AM
I gotta ask...since i'm not on either side of the debate about violence in movies and video games...but, looking at movies (since games are a fairly recent invention), violent action is more focused, and more central to the storyline, where older movies tended to make other points the key focus and violence a background or incidental item.

How do we account for the fact that we make violence itself a central point in our entertainment?
 
2012-12-26 09:58:24 AM

Holocaust Agnostic: Yes, witnessing on average 80000 killings before you hiiit middle school probably has no effect on anyone subs.


I guess if you allow your kids to watch that much, maybe. Or you could sign them up for sports and give them books about science and other useful stuff.


/John Wayne good, Tarantino bad, amidoingthisright?
 
2012-12-26 09:58:32 AM

WippitGuud: rrife: Pretty sure all of the mass killings are a symptom of too many people. As the population increases, as will the frequency and size of the killings....it's probably nature's way of controlling the population.

Dammit. Bob Barker had it right all the time...


Spay and neuter your psychopaths!
 
2012-12-26 09:58:48 AM
Stupid Mormons.
 
2012-12-26 09:59:20 AM

Holocaust Agnostic: Yes, witnessing on average 80000 killings before you hiiit middle school probably has no effect on anyone subs.


Apparently, it doesn't, or if it does have *SOME* effect, it's the opposite you think:

marginalrevolution.com
 
2012-12-26 09:59:30 AM

Big Beef Burrito: Watching violent movies as a kid has done nothing but good things for me.

Just last weekend I beheaded this guy on the steps of his front porch, right in front of a bunch of his friends.

But its cool, he was the leader of some snake cult and an all-around bad guy.

Crom was pleased.


Fark You. Tunnel Snakes Rule!
 
2012-12-26 09:59:58 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com
I love this graphic SO much! And it gives it's data source (the DOJ) to boot!
 
2012-12-26 09:59:59 AM

Bontesla: For example - better access to cost-effective mental health services for young adults. We, as a society, are fully responsible for the treatment of our most vulnerable.


You can say that, and I know averting one tragedy could be worth the costs, but I'm not sure these are the people who would voluntarily seek help.
 
2012-12-26 10:00:23 AM

Holocaust Agnostic: What point did he make


Ooh, was that a simple spelling mistake or the accidental reveal of a sockpuppet?

Anyhoo, the point I was making was that we can compare cultures before and after they were exposed to violent media. There's no percievable increase in violence. The generation of kids who grew up after video games aren't any more violent than the kids who grew up beforehand (they're less violent, actually).
 
2012-12-26 10:01:20 AM
This is analogous to the porn/rape argument. I say fap it out, shoot it out on Halo, whatever gets you through the day without snapping.

I think that violence is a natural effect of isolating ourselves in homes that resemble the arcades of yesteryear, but cheaper and with better graphics, so that we fear our neighbors and become antisocial, and in doing so become a source of that fear for others. Our information about the outside world comes from a fear mongering, greed driven industry rather than participation in that world, because we've all been warned that leaving the safety of our homes and computers will subject you to terrorism...

Part of whats wrong with today is that people have no real social support because everyone else is self absorbed and isolationist. So you give up, until you snap. It might be suicide, road rage, a blackout drunk, or depending how bad the depression or other mental health issue is, a mass shooting.

Aren't something like one in four women on antidepressants right now? I refuse to believe that many people are depressed by their biology alone. Society failed them, because as we knew it, society is over. This, Fark and the like, might nearly replace it with purely virtual interaction one day.

People need sun and love.
 
2012-12-26 10:01:21 AM
Why do the chickenchit feared to near death partisans always look for a single easy answer?
Never willing to protect themselves, they gladly surrender their freedom for the false road to the hell they fear the most.

/just don't get it
 
2012-12-26 10:03:09 AM

dittybopper: Holocaust Agnostic: Yes, witnessing on average 80000 killings before you hiiit middle school probably has no effect on anyone subs.

Apparently, it doesn't, or if it does have *SOME* effect, it's the opposite you think:

[marginalrevolution.com image 850x582]



It's not enough to know why it has fallen through the centuries, but we should also try and learn what caused the peaks.
 
2012-12-26 10:03:26 AM
I think Stephen King actually argued our intake of simulated violence is healthy because it feeds the "alligators"
 
2012-12-26 10:03:38 AM
Dear idiots people who blame video games for violence:

MORAL PANICS ARE INHERENTLY MORE DESTRUCTIVE THAN THE SOCIAL FORCE THEY ARE FIGHTING AGAINST
 
2012-12-26 10:04:11 AM

Gunther: Actually, plenty of studies on that subject have been done.
Not that you care - you're after a scapegoat, not the truth.


I'm not looking for a farking scapegoat. But keep right on with the reflexive dismissal. I'm saying that the things we are exposed to affect us. Is that too far-fetched? You will never be able to figure out if A VIDEO GAME made that killer snap--it's like the nature/nurture argument. You'll never be able to figure the individual inputs that caused some things to happen. Watching hours of fake violence, or playing video games, might affect the way some vulnerable person reacts to stresses in his life. Most people it wouldn't affect at all.

I've been on Fark for years. The things I've been exposed to here have affected the way I think about certain things. My son plays violent war games for hours, but I don't fear that he might go shoot up the mall. It has made him more interested in guns, though. Unless you go around in a cloud of smug, everything you see and participate in every day affects you somehow. Is it such an outrage to say that maybe seeing fake violence all the time might not be good for some people?

BronyMedic: Yeah. They've done those studies. The ones that aren't horribly biased and poorly conducted have found no causation link between violence in television and video games, and street violence. What they have found correlation AND causation links to are poverty, bullying/abuse and lack of access to mental health services.


And how many of those kids were exposed to fake violence in some form, and it may have affected their way of dealing with their poor hand in life? We don't know. You cannot make a study that can suss out all the inputs that cause one action.

If you're arguing against a possible connection EVER, then you're arguing that no one actually processes anything that goes on around them, and that nothing has any affect on how we think--we're all perfect vessels who just get our thoughts about life from air or something. Our parents, schools, advertising, friends, way of life, our damn choice of pet--all those things have an effect on our life and our way of thinking. But video games and TV violence have NO affect, on anyone? That's stupid.
 
2012-12-26 10:04:53 AM

Bontesla: We, as a society, are fully responsible for the treatment of our most vulnerable.


I think that starts with the parents too. In general the trend seems to either let the people watching them at day care or their teachers, be the general care givers for their children. I wish that parents would find a way to spend more time with their children. And to me, sitting watching TV or playing your video game while they play their's doesn't really count.

give me doughnuts: But would you be willing to at least put on a tight yellow track-suit and pose with a katana?


I have one of those items, but not the other.
 
2012-12-26 10:04:54 AM
www.justfactsdaily.com

If the idea that violent media, especially more realistic violent media, increases homicides in anyway, then this graph should be *RISING*, not *FALLING*.

Perhaps realistic violent media actually has some sort of cathartic effect instead. I'm not married to the idea, but it certainly fits the data better.
 
2012-12-26 10:06:05 AM
Gee, I have to wonder how they stirred up the killing lust in their children all those years before video games, before TV, before violent cartoons, before violent comic books, before,,,

You chickenchit "citizens" are going down the road to absolute terror in your sheeple fearmongered fear of personal freedom.
Don't like guns, Fine! Just let the rest of us protect you like we have been for 200+ years.
 
2012-12-26 10:06:16 AM

cretinbob: I'm OK with shootings in movies, as long as they are required to make them realistic That means no one gets back up after being shot in the chest or head. Wounds need to be realistic as well.

I was talking with someone the other day, who owns guns...a gun shop actually. and I said we need  to have educational videos for guns the way we used to have educational videos for driving, like "Blood on the Highway". He was OK with that.

//yes, I'm still pushing the petition in these threads


Based on my limited knowledge of such things, I would cite Django Unchained as pretty realistic. There are a few bits intended to get a cheer or laugh from the audience that are a bit less believable but, in general, once shot in a vital area, the targets stayed down.

//saw the movie opening day in an art theatre
//If anything, even more sensitized to violence than before
//Left-winguts should get a clue
//Right-wingnuts should get a clue
//The First Amendment is useless without the Second, and vice-versa
//Stop blaming the media for humanity's core problems
 
2012-12-26 10:07:50 AM
It appears the baby-boomer generation was much more murder happy than the current one. I blame Leave It To Beaver.
 
2012-12-26 10:08:00 AM
TFA: "somehow Tarantino doesn't grasp the connection between a culture that produced the Sandy Hook Elementary school tragedy in Connecticut"

The only connection I can hypothesize from the data available is: the author clearly has a stick up their ass, so perhaps that stick is roughly in the shape of Quentin Tarantino?

/ despite heavy bias and *numerous* studies on the matter, no-one has ever found a connection between violent media and violence
// not films, not tv, not children's programming, not books, not rock music, not rap music, not dungeons and dragons, not video games -- not nuthin.
/// let that poor decades-dead horse *alone* ffs.
 
2012-12-26 10:09:52 AM
Again this is another "But the children!" article from a bunch of Mormons who'd ban coffee if they could.
 
2012-12-26 10:10:09 AM

dittybopper: [www.justfactsdaily.com image 850x613]

If the idea that violent media, especially more realistic violent media, increases homicides in anyway, then this graph should be *RISING*, not *FALLING*.

Perhaps realistic violent media actually has some sort of cathartic effect instead. I'm not married to the idea, but it certainly fits the data better.


The big drop seems to be about when the web became public. Interesting...
 
2012-12-26 10:10:41 AM

give me doughnuts: dittybopper: Holocaust Agnostic: Yes, witnessing on average 80000 killings before you hiiit middle school probably has no effect on anyone subs.

Apparently, it doesn't, or if it does have *SOME* effect, it's the opposite you think:

[marginalrevolution.com image 850x582]


It's not enough to know why it has fallen through the centuries, but we should also try and learn what caused the peaks.


A smart person would look at that and say: 1770s peak? Probably the Revolutionary War. 1860s peak? Civil War. 1920s/30s peak? Prohibition and Great Depression. 1990's peak? 1970s-1990s peak? War on Drugs.

Pretty simple to figure out that wars that pit neighbor against neighbor (like the Revolution and Civil wars) might result in homicides outside of the normal course of war, and that prohibitions on alcohol and drugs, combined with economic downturns, might also result in peaks.

It's not brain science or rocket surgery.
 
2012-12-26 10:11:10 AM

BronyMedic: Dear idiots people who blame video games for violence:

MORAL PANICS ARE INHERENTLY MORE DESTRUCTIVE THAN THE SOCIAL FORCE THEY ARE FIGHTING AGAINST


Indeed. Look at what the temperance movement did for organized crime.

littlett's: Bontesla: We, as a society, are fully responsible for the treatment of our most vulnerable.

I think that starts with the parents too. In general the trend seems to either let the people watching them at day care or their teachers, be the general care givers for their children. I wish that parents would find a way to spend more time with their children. And to me, sitting watching TV or playing your video game while they play their's doesn't really count.

give me doughnuts: But would you be willing to at least put on a tight yellow track-suit and pose with a katana?

I have one of those items, but not the other.


Sword and no track-suit? Even better!

(However, knowing that you run a lot of miles in all sorts of weather, I'm going with the inference that you don't own any japanese non-kitchen cutlery)
 
2012-12-26 10:11:16 AM

cryinoutloud: And how many of those kids were exposed to fake violence in some form, and it may have affected their way of dealing with their poor hand in life? We don't know. You cannot make a study that can suss out all the inputs that cause one action.


And how many of THOSE Children had issues like Autism (Adam Lanza), where they are unable to directly handle their emotions and deal with social situations in a properly adjusted context? How many of these people had underlying and untreated severe mental illness? (Lanza and Sideshow Bob) How many of those children you cherrypick live in homes with parental absentism, and overly permissive parenting styles which don't prepare them to think properly in today's environment? How many of these children are abused to the point of being in fear of their lives while adults ignore it because it'll "make them stronger" (Columbine)?

People have been blaming video games since ET. Strangely enough, as games have gotten more realistic, violence has gone down.

Do you see how this moving the goalpost thing works? You're looking for something to blame when the answer is, in reality, mcuh more complex?
 
2012-12-26 10:11:17 AM

dittybopper: Holocaust Agnostic: Yes, witnessing on average 80000 killings before you hiiit middle school probably has no effect on anyone subs.

Apparently, it doesn't, or if it does have *SOME* effect, it's the opposite you think:


Because absolutely nothing else has changed in society since1700.
 
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