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(Reuters)   Russian parliament bans Americans from adopting children. Mail-order brides still OK, though   (in.reuters.com) divider line 73
    More: Followup, mail-order brides, State Duma, President Vladimir Putin, Americans, adoptions  
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3471 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Dec 2012 at 10:14 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



73 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-26 10:16:27 AM  
They do not want their children gunned down in American Schools,
 
2012-12-26 10:16:59 AM  
Good. I'm tired of hearing how psychotic Russian kids are from Americans who have adopted them.

At least the babes are still legal.
 
2012-12-26 10:18:21 AM  
Old news blah blah blah.
 
2012-12-26 10:19:11 AM  
 
2012-12-26 10:21:12 AM  
Aren't the brides emotionally and intellectually still children too?

Part of the appeal right?
 
2012-12-26 10:22:26 AM  
chuckufarlie: They do not want their children gunned down in American Schools,

It's ok to have one or two pet issues, but you've crossed the line into obsession.

No guns here. Nothing to see. Move along now.
 
2012-12-26 10:24:38 AM  
twimg0-a.akamaihd.net

Does this mean we'll see a rise in Russian child brides?
 
2012-12-26 10:24:39 AM  

tankjr: Good


Jesus christ that's a day ruiner right there.
 
2012-12-26 10:25:58 AM  
www.soundstagedirect.com
 
2012-12-26 10:26:02 AM  
Because the Cold War was just too much fun to let die!

/at least now they're aiming laws at each other instead of building more nukes
 
2012-12-26 10:26:52 AM  

A Terrible Human: tankjr: Good

Jesus christ that's a day ruiner right there.


No shiat. Now I'm depressed.
 
2012-12-26 10:28:48 AM  
Jesus H Christ what a crappy website. Clicking through to each new paragraph is a joke. How hard is it to just put an entire article on a single page?
 
2012-12-26 10:30:42 AM  
Unaniomous? I guess the Russian Parlaiment showed us! I knew a family who adopted two children from Russia. The baby was fine but the toddler was, without exaggeration, out of control. He shook constantly -- could not handle the sensory overload after 2 years in an orphanage's crib.
 
2012-12-26 10:32:09 AM  
Have they barred Russian women from drinking while pregnant? Not that the two issues are connected or anything.
 
2012-12-26 10:32:20 AM  

tankjr: Good


Those poor girls. At least he got a good sentence unlike anders who gets 20 years.
 
2012-12-26 10:32:45 AM  

chuckufarlie: They do not want their children gunned down in American Schools,


Yeah, the Commies dont no nutting about no school shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis
 
2012-12-26 10:33:32 AM  

tankjr: Good


Well... Yeah. There's that.

Plus, didn't the whole Adopt Russian Children thing come into vogue when Russia took stock after the wall came down and realized that they had like 25 million vagrants under the age of 18?

I had assumed that would peter out sooner or later. They even passed a law a while back to discourage older vagrant kids from "recruiting" younger kids into being vagabonds like Russian Artful Dodgers. Are they still shiatting out vagrants out there in Ruskania? Or are we just slow on the uptake and just adopting from Russia because it's like... what we do... man?
 
2012-12-26 10:34:52 AM  
Ha! Now our unwanted children will be forced to remain in Russia instead of being adopted to a country with higher standards of living than ours. Take that, America!
 
2012-12-26 10:35:24 AM  
Countries tend to do this when they get into girly-slap-fights with other countries.

Increase interdictions on drugs entering your country from our country? Ask that we stop imprisoning political prisoners? Freeze the bank accounts of international mob-chiefs?

Okay then, you can't adopt our orphaned children. That will show you who's boss.
 
2012-12-26 10:35:24 AM  
So you can only get the starter kit. Sometimes making what you want is more fun anyway. I don't want more kids, but I still like repeating the process.
 
2012-12-26 10:38:13 AM  

Jaws_Victim: Those poor girls. At least he got a good sentence unlike anders who gets 20 years.


Or unlike the men who get away with it completely.
 
2012-12-26 10:39:58 AM  

A Terrible Human: tankjr: Good

Jesus christ that's a day ruiner right there.


I clicked the link expecting it to be the one about that woman who packed her 7 year old adopted Russian son onto a plane to Russia with a one way ticket and a note that she didn't want him anymore.

Turns out that wasn't the worst American-Russian adoption story.
 
2012-12-26 10:45:10 AM  
Crap. I hope this doesn't mean u can only get one of those brown or Asian skinned babbies now. Those things clash with the Volvo.
 
2012-12-26 10:48:11 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: chuckufarlie: They do not want their children gunned down in American Schools,

Yeah, the Commies dont no nutting about no school shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis


Read: Terrorism.
 
2012-12-26 10:49:40 AM  
All I ask is keep the strippers coming.
 
2012-12-26 10:52:10 AM  
Good. There are enough children who need homes right here in the states. Every child adopted from outside the US means one more child here likely to grow up in the foster system, be dumped onto the streets at 18 and most probably end up in jail.
 
2012-12-26 10:55:05 AM  
I used to work with a guy that was getting a 'mail order' bride. Guy was half Italian, half Korean ethnicity and attracted women like no man I have ever seen.

As a guy it was fascinating to watch. But, he ignored them all, he wanted a Russian mail order bride. Apparently there are websites dedicated to these types of things.

He actually flew out to meet one a few times. He was raised in South Korea until he was 12 and wanted nothing to do with an American woman.
 
2012-12-26 11:02:09 AM  
Dear Russia-

Good for you. We're sick and tired of your Fetal Alcohol Syndrome exports, anyway.

Sincerely,
Childless Americans
 
2012-12-26 11:08:39 AM  
Americans are more likely to adopt Russian children with defects or from dire upbringings, which is why people are saying the government shouldn't use this bill as payback. Why the fark this even came to light I have no idea. They just countered Obama's bill with their own that is pretty much the same so why they had to throw this adoption one in is just weird.
 
2012-12-26 11:09:28 AM  

Cymbal: Aren't the brides emotionally and intellectually still children too?

Part of the appeal right?


No, that's just the sales pitch. They're actually the scheming girlfriends of Ukrainian mafiosi, and they're running a scam on the idiots who think some "Russian" babe is desperate enough to marry their fat, old, uncharming ass. They get here, get the green card, dump the loser and bring the boyfriend over.

/True story.
 
2012-12-26 11:09:37 AM  
I have an old friend who adopted two young Russian children (I believe they were like 2 or 3 at the time) and
they have been nothing but wonderful for him.

I also had a former coworker fall for what was obviously a Russian mail order bride scam, but since he got
himself fired for being  unstable I have no idea what ever came of it.
 
2012-12-26 11:12:57 AM  
No. Not good.

Do you believe it would be better for a [nationality] child to live a life of grinding poverty just so he could remain [same nationality], when a first-world life might be made available to him? Our two sons are adopted from Eastern Europe. The younger one had rickets when he came here. Look that one up if you need to. Oh, and he also had a positive response to tuberculosis exposure. He's in good health now. The older one had to have surgery on arrival and sustained an ankle injury over there so bad that it can't be repaired. That happened to him sometime between birth and age 2. He can run about half as fast as the other kids he goes to school with, but he says he's not quitting the basketball team. They were living in a state orphanage and had been since birth. The dust in here always gets worse whenever I think of their lives before they came here, so excuse me while I take care of that.

No. Not good.

Merry Christmas, everybody.
 
2012-12-26 11:13:17 AM  

mbillips: Cymbal: Aren't the brides emotionally and intellectually still children too?

Part of the appeal right?

No, that's just the sales pitch. They're actually the scheming girlfriends of Ukrainian mafiosi, and they're running a scam on the idiots who think some "Russian" babe is desperate enough to marry their fat, old, uncharming ass. They get here, get the green card, dump the loser and bring the boyfriend over.

/True story.


Yes, but during that time you get to have sex with a hottie. If she refuses, you can divorce her and send her ass back to whatever third world shiathole (Albania, Philadelphia, Siberia, whatever) she's from.
 
2012-12-26 11:21:01 AM  

onyxruby: I used to work with a guy that was getting a 'mail order' bride. Guy was half Italian, half Korean ethnicity and attracted women like no man I have ever seen.

As a guy it was fascinating to watch. But, he ignored them all, he wanted a Russian mail order bride. Apparently there are websites dedicated to these types of things.

He actually flew out to meet one a few times. He was raised in South Korea until he was 12 and wanted nothing to do with an American woman.


Well an American woman will point and laugh at the little pee, pee BUT a hungry desperate Russian will lie.
 
2012-12-26 11:48:53 AM  
They're banning caviar?
 
2012-12-26 11:59:27 AM  
Because most Americans just abuse adopted children, right?

Let this be a lesson to those who would pass legislation via knee-jerking.... I am sure all those potential adoptees will be much better off now.


/applies to sandyhook and gun laws too
 
2012-12-26 12:02:48 PM  
/reads the article...

It is Russia's response to the Magnitsky Act, a law signed by U.S. President Barack Obama earlier this month to bar Russians accused of human rights violations from entering the United States and to freeze any assets they hold there.

Oh, so its the Russians using children as a thin excuse to be assholes to us for no good reason? everyone carry on then...
 
2012-12-26 12:02:48 PM  

CornerPocket: No. Not good.

Do you believe it would be better for a [nationality] child to live a life of grinding poverty just so he could remain [same nationality], when a first-world life might be made available to him? Our two sons are adopted from Eastern Europe. The younger one had rickets when he came here. Look that one up if you need to. Oh, and he also had a positive response to tuberculosis exposure. He's in good health now. The older one had to have surgery on arrival and sustained an ankle injury over there so bad that it can't be repaired. That happened to him sometime between birth and age 2. He can run about half as fast as the other kids he goes to school with, but he says he's not quitting the basketball team. They were living in a state orphanage and had been since birth. The dust in here always gets worse whenever I think of their lives before they came here, so excuse me while I take care of that.

No. Not good.

Merry Christmas, everybody.


So because you wanted white kids instead of taking care of children from right here in the US you have justified it as saving some child from half way across the world.

Good for you for adopting but you condemned a child of your own nationality to grinding poverty because your kid being white meant more than him or her being American.
 
2012-12-26 12:13:45 PM  

Maul555: /reads the article...

It is Russia's response to the Magnitsky Act, a law signed by U.S. President Barack Obama earlier this month to bar Russians accused of human rights violations from entering the United States and to freeze any assets they hold there.

Oh, so its the Russians using children as a thin excuse to be assholes to us for no good reason? everyone carry on then...


worse than just using children, he "would also outlaw some U.S.-funded non-governmental organisations"
 
2012-12-26 12:26:57 PM  

CornerPocket: No. Not good.

Do you believe it would be better for a [nationality] child to live a life of grinding poverty just so he could remain [same nationality], when a first-world life might be made available to him? Our two sons are adopted from Eastern Europe. The younger one had rickets when he came here. Look that one up if you need to. Oh, and he also had a positive response to tuberculosis exposure. He's in good health now. The older one had to have surgery on arrival and sustained an ankle injury over there so bad that it can't be repaired. That happened to him sometime between birth and age 2. He can run about half as fast as the other kids he goes to school with, but he says he's not quitting the basketball team. They were living in a state orphanage and had been since birth. The dust in here always gets worse whenever I think of their lives before they came here, so excuse me while I take care of that.

No. Not good.

Merry Christmas, everybody.


I'm with you. I adopted from Russia in 1999. We are currently living happily ever after.

Things in Russia are obviously better now than in the 90's, and the orphanage situation is less desperate than it used to be. Russia really should pull itself together and take care of its own children, and I think it is in the process of doing that.

International adoption will continue, just not from Russia. There are other places in the world where children need good homes.

I do not agree that by adopting foreign children, we are dooming American children to lives of grinding poverty. That's just plain ignorant. Usually people who adopt internationally do it because for some reason they are ineligible to adopt locally.

Merry Christmas to you too.
 
2012-12-26 12:45:51 PM  
Why would I want to adopt a mail order bride subby?
 
2012-12-26 12:46:15 PM  

kindms: CornerPocket: No. Not good.

Do you believe it would be better for a [nationality] child to live a life of grinding poverty just so he could remain [same nationality], when a first-world life might be made available to him? Our two sons are adopted from Eastern Europe. The younger one had rickets when he came here. Look that one up if you need to. Oh, and he also had a positive response to tuberculosis exposure. He's in good health now. The older one had to have surgery on arrival and sustained an ankle injury over there so bad that it can't be repaired. That happened to him sometime between birth and age 2. He can run about half as fast as the other kids he goes to school with, but he says he's not quitting the basketball team. They were living in a state orphanage and had been since birth. The dust in here always gets worse whenever I think of their lives before they came here, so excuse me while I take care of that.

No. Not good.

Merry Christmas, everybody.

So because you wanted white kids instead of taking care of children from right here in the US you have justified it as saving some child from half way across the world.

Good for you for adopting but you condemned a child of your own nationality to grinding poverty because your kid being white meant more than him or her being American.


No where in the previous post was race brought up or implied, but way to jump on the big ol' racism ball there Johnny, quck to pull out that slide and go discount race card aren't ya. There are plenty of "white kids"
in America who need to be adopted too but that didn't factor in to your equation did, makes me think maybe its you whose got a severe dose of racial difference inspired behavior, you just want somthing to be outraged over... do the world a favor and be quiet for a minute.
 
2012-12-26 12:49:57 PM  
In communist Russia, kids adopt you!
 
2012-12-26 01:11:11 PM  

Cymbal: Aren't the brides emotionally and intellectually still children too?

Part of the appeal right?


Actually, Russian and Slavic women in general have a cultural aversion to being seen as immature. They work very hard to earn respect as mature adults and tend to look down at the idea of wanting to be younger than they are. Pretty much the opposite of Western women.
 
2012-12-26 01:13:05 PM  

Zeno-25: Ha! Now our unwanted children will be forced to remain in Russia instead of being adopted to a country with higher standards of living than ours. Take that, America!


Poor is poor and rich is rich.  Doesn't matter what country you are in.
 
2012-12-26 01:33:51 PM  

DeadGeek: Why would I want to adopt a mail order bride subby?


Does this answer your question, tovarisch?

www.rbrides.com
 
2012-12-26 01:35:48 PM  
It was much easier and less expensive for us to adopt internationally. And we put an ocean and a continent between us and the birth parents.
 
2012-12-26 01:43:20 PM  

Charles Martel: It was much easier and less expensive for us to adopt internationally. And we put an ocean and a continent between us and the birth parents.


The parents of my ex adopted two children from Russia and one from Vietnam. The Russians required a $50k payment to the government each just to be taken out of the country. That was before any other fees to the adoption agency or anyone else. Total with travel expenses it cost them close to $150k for the two children. The baby from Vietnam cost $35k.

Don't know where you heard it was cheaper internationally.
 
2012-12-26 01:56:00 PM  

DaintySavage: Don't know where you heard it was cheaper internationally.


My bank account told me.

Mine wasn't anywhere near $150K.
 
2012-12-26 02:05:57 PM  

letrole: chuckufarlie: They do not want their children gunned down in American Schools,

It's ok to have one or two pet issues, but you've crossed the line into obsession.

No guns here. Nothing to see. Move along now.


Oh wow, one of the most notorious pet issues troll (that is your surname right?) is complaining about pet issues folks.

I marked your post as "funny".
 
2012-12-26 02:11:52 PM  

mbillips: DeadGeek: Why would I want to adopt a mail order bride subby?

Does this answer your question, tovarisch?

[www.rbrides.com image 450x644]


And she comes with a free copy of Photoshop.
 
2012-12-26 02:19:17 PM  

DaintySavage:
Don't know where you heard it was cheaper internationally.


Mine cost about $22,000 total including travel expenses. She's cost me a lot more since then. ;-)
 
2012-12-26 02:19:32 PM  

onyxruby: out to meet one a few times. He was raised in South


Sheesh. American women : All I can say is, get away. Don't come hanging around my door, I don't want to see your face no more. Frankly, I don't need your war machines, and I don't need your ghetto scenes.
 
2012-12-26 02:22:37 PM  
Adopting internationally is usually easier. My husband and I were ineligible for public adoption because we hadn't been married long enough, unless we wanted to take in a "problem teenager" temporarily (which I have done since then, but at the time I was an inexperienced parent). We couldn't compete in the private adoption market -too old, not married long enough, and not wealthy. So we adopted internationally.

There are plenty of children in the US who need homes, but the vast majority are not available for permanent adoption because their parents retain rights even if they can't take care of the child.
 
2012-12-26 02:49:56 PM  
so you can still import the raw components, just not the finished product. makes sense from an import export practicality standpoint.
 
2012-12-26 02:54:45 PM  
kindms:

The primary reason we were approved to adopt these children is because the officials in that country agreed with the agency. That is, the children would almost certainly not be adopted locally because of their ethnicity. Maybe you should move there, you'll fit right in.

I pity you for your poisoned mind, but I will not have any further discourse with you.
 
2012-12-26 02:57:23 PM  
So let me get this straight; The Russian govt wants to punish the US by not letting us take the financial burden of caring for orphans off their hands.
 
2012-12-26 03:34:05 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: chuckufarlie: They do not want their children gunned down in American Schools,

Yeah, the Commies dont no nutting about no school shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis


That was organized terrorism by militant separatists, not a crazy dude with his mama's gun collection.
Do you also think 9/11 is just like any other work-place violence?
 
2012-12-26 04:03:57 PM  

Miss Cellania: Adopting internationally is usually easier. My husband and I were ineligible for public adoption because we hadn't been married long enough, unless we wanted to take in a "problem teenager" temporarily (which I have done since then, but at the time I was an inexperienced parent). We couldn't compete in the private adoption market -too old, not married long enough, and not wealthy. So we adopted internationally.

There are plenty of children in the US who need homes, but the vast majority are not available for permanent adoption because their parents retain rights even if they can't take care of the child.


This.

Have a close friend who is/was going through the adoption process from Russia right now, and my wife and I looked into as well. It seems there are more than 650,000 children in orphanages in Russia, and the US is the #1 adopter of these children. Children in Russia orphanages are not available for adoption to the US until they've been there for nearly a year, so the Russians themselves have a chance to adopt them. The American adoption process is longer, more strict and carries with it the terrible possibility that the baby you adopt and raise for a year or more can be taken away from you with little warning because the mom, or another relative, suddenly decided they wanted the child back. This would be heartbreaking to nearly any parent, and even more so for one whom adoption was the only way to have a child at all. The bolded part was the reason my wife and I werent interested in US adoption and spent our money on IVF (which thankfully worked).

Yes, 19 adopted children from Russia have died in the care of their American parents in the last 20 years... out of more than 60,000 adoptions by Americans of Russian children. That's .03%, or 25 times lower than the mortality rate of US-born children under age 5. But since this is Fark, I expect illogical conclusions right in line with the stupidity of the Duma, cherry-picking disaster cases which can and do exist anywhere in the world as "the norm," and a "well good American kids need it more" uninformed attitude. Oh, and in the same 20-year period in which 19 kids from Russian orphanages died in the US, 1200+ former orphans died at the hands of their Russian adoptive families. Source

/the Duma are competing with our Congress for emotional knee-jerk legislature
 
2012-12-26 04:26:04 PM  
Seraphym

A nice way to use statistics to obscure the fact that a Russian child died from being left in a car for nine hours.

That Americans have killed less than Russians, go USA!

This whole thread is just a bunch of morons spouting off about how great the USA is, based off of one shiatty article.
 
2012-12-26 04:49:12 PM  

LargeCanine: Cymbal: Aren't the brides emotionally and intellectually still children too?

Part of the appeal right?

Actually, Russian and Slavic women in general have a cultural aversion to being seen as immature. They work very hard to earn respect as mature adults and tend to look down at the idea of wanting to be younger than they are. Pretty much the opposite of Western women.


So true.  And they really frown on "immature" behavior on the part of males, as well - so no Jackass type antics or eating bacon with everything (there's a time and a place for most things - but don't expect overly wild sex either).

Russian women are often very strong-willed.  Very.  (So are the men)
 
2012-12-26 05:38:11 PM  

quiet_american: Seraphym

A nice way to use statistics to obscure the fact that a Russian child died from being left in a car for nine hours.

That Americans have killed less than Russians, go USA!

This whole thread is just a bunch of morons spouting off about how great the USA is, based off of one shiatty article.


Yep, surely that's what I did, tried to obscure a tragedy with facts...

media.tumblr.com

Perhaps you can enlighten all of us: how does me providing data demonstrating that Russian kids adopted by Americans stand a far better chance of being raised in a loving home, or of just staying alive, than they would have if adopted by Russian parents, when the entire argument that the Duma is making with their new law is that these orphans should not be allowed to be found and adopted by American families and be instead adopted by just Russians? My argument had direct bearing on the Duma's logic (or lack thereof)... but you went with "obscuring a death."

So, one person acting horribly negligent (at the least) and letting their adopted child die in a locked car is justification to you to strip the chance of finding loving parents in the US from 1000+ Russian orphans per year, many only toddlers?

"Albert Likhanov, president of the non-governmental Russian Children's Fund, says that the proposed ban would result in the approximately 1,000 orphans adopted each year by US families to be institutionalized instead of ending up in loving homes.

"I fully understand the wish of many Russians that our children would all be adequately cared for in Russia. But this is not the situation today, and a child cannot wait for everything to get stabilized," he says.

Mr. Likhanov said that Putin's predecessor, Dmitry Medvedev, once pointed out that in 2008 alone there were 130,000 cases in Russia of violence against children and over 2,000 deaths.

"There is a crisis in our system, and this debate shows that there are people who are willing to use our orphans as political footballs. . . this conflict makes clear that all is not well in own kingdom," he says."

Meanwhile, "about 130,000 Russians have signed a petition at the website of opposition newspaper Novaya Gazeta asking the Kremlin to scrap the proposed ban."

Read the book The Boy from Baby House 10 (if you have the stomach - I skimmed it and was appalled) as my friend trying to adopt from Russia did, and then tell me what the Russian Duma is doing makes sense, unless you factor in their sense of national shame over their whole inability to provide for these children and desire to "show up" the West (again, as I said, an emotional reaction).
 
2012-12-26 05:50:23 PM  
chuckufarlie: They do not want their children gunned down in American Schools,

letrole: It's ok to have one or two pet issues, but you've crossed the line into obsession. No guns here. Nothing to see. Move along now.

ThePastafarian: Oh wow, one of the most notorious pet issues troll (that is your surname right?) is complaining about pet issues folks. I marked your post as "funny".


I'm not complaining about pet issues. I'm complaining about off-topic obsession with a given issue. You see, 'off-topic' means 'not related to the subject of the thread'. It seems that chuckufarlie has an anti-gun-fetish. That's cool, but it doesn't have jack-shiat to do with Russian orphans.

You made a completely irrelevant point about my post concerning yet another poster who made an irrelevant point. What's your point? You have no point except a pointless opportunity to make a pointless and impotent attempt to insult me. The meta-dumbass factor is staggering.

This sort of stupidity is what makes my job so hard.
 
2012-12-26 07:56:54 PM  
A very good friend of my wife adopted a little girl from a Siberian orphanage about 10 years ago. She had an older sister who was not eligible for adoption at the time, but the intention was always to bring the older sister as soon as she was allowed. the would visit repeatedly, multiple times in a year to try and get things moving. She's on a first name basis with everyone up to our Senators. But...a combination of Russian bureaucratic inefficiency, 'Crazy Ivan' politics like this, and a reticence for the adoptive parents to play the usual game of graft and palm-greasing, and the older sister actually aged out of the system before the adoption could be finished...and was kicked out onto the street at 17. About a year ago, she was caught in the middle of a convenience store holdup and shot in the ankle. She couldn't even get a medical emergency visa to the states with the mom offering to pay all expenses. So now she's got a permanent limp, lives on friend's sofas and, despite a family ready willing and able to take care of her, looks forward to a future on being a orphan with a 10th grade education in Siberia.

Worse, they met and were looking to adopt a third child, a boy from the orphanage. That's gone to hell now too.

I blame Stalin. His mind-fark of the Russian people is still having repercussions to this day.
 
2012-12-27 12:47:06 AM  
Seraphym: Don't take it so personal. This is fark. You are arguing with an adolescent, or a troll. Let it go.
 
2012-12-27 01:00:58 AM  

quiet_american: A nice way to use statistics to obscure the fact that a Russian child died from being left in a car for nine hours.


Don't forget also that it was the prosecutor in the Chase Harrison (Dima Yakovlev) case that decided to try the case as an intentional homicide rather than as negligent one.

Either the prosecutor was stupidly greedy or incredibly dense.
If not for this charging blunder, the father would have been doing time.
Instead, it's considered verification by the Russians that the entire American legal system is flawed.

I've looked at the new legislation.
Basically, if you've ever looked sideways at a Russian then -- No Russian Visa for YOU, Commrade!
I'm pretty sure that the TSA agent who took away the vodak from that Russian who was then forced to drink it all down, arguably violated that Russians "fundamental rights and freedoms" and can now never get a tourist visa to Russia.

Thank god there is still Ukraine!
----

Measures Against Persons Who Violate The Fundamental Rights And Freedoms of Russian Citizens
Adopted by the State Duma on December 21, 2012

Article 1
Measures against persons involved in the violation of fundamental human rights and freedoms of Russian citizens shall include:

1) A ban on entry into Russia of any US citizen who:

a) Is or has been involved with the violations of fundamental rights and freedoms of Russian citizens; or

b) Has committed crimes against Russian citizens living abroad, or was involved in the commission of such crimes; or

c) Has in any official capacity contributed by either his or her actions (or inactions) to release the perpetrators of crimes against Russian citizens; or

d) Has contributed by making or refusing to make any decision which had the effect of releasing the perpetrators of a crime against a Russian citizen; or

e) Was involved in the kidnapping or unlawful imprisonment of any Russian citizen; or

f) Has rendered an unfounded or unjust sentence against a Russian citizen; or

g) Took part in judicial persecution of a Russian citizen; or

h) Made an unreasonable decision which violated the rights of a Russian citizen or of a Russian organization.

(translation is my own)

I didn't finish because I had to be to the gym in 18 minutes, the hogs needed sloppin' and i had to burp the cat.

/Uncle Schmegicky
 
2012-12-27 01:20:23 AM  

Seraphym: quiet_american: Seraphym

Yep, surely that's what I did, tried to obscure a tragedy with facts...

[media.tumblr.com image 235x206]




Russia is a sovereign country, they can do whatever they want. And if they want to overreact to one death, fine.

We don't have some God-given right to adopt Russian kids because we have a better economy. Because their system is shiat doesn't mean we have some kind of neocolonial obligation to free their children from bad orphanages.

Bad laws are made all the time in this country because of one tragedy or a small handful.

Not to mention that the US law that supposedly provoked this was stupid on our part as well. The US has this perpetual mental need to tell every country how to live. Under the guise of "human rights" we arrogantly tell every country how to live, and write laws to enforce our values. Good for Russia to stand up and respond. Instead of an arrogant superpower, "WE HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR CHILDREN!" we should be a little more humble, and a little more respectful of their jurisdiction, sovereignty and national rights.

You import bad motives onto the entire Russian political system because they make laws off of a tragedy. You used statistics to deflect away from that primary tragedy (not even mentioned in the article and only obliquely referenced by you). So, yes, you are the asshole trying to use numbers to get away from the emotional story.
 
2012-12-27 01:32:23 AM  

Schmegicky: quiet_american: A nice way to use statistics to obscure the fact that a Russian child died from being left in a car for nine hours.

Don't forget also that it was the prosecutor in the Chase Harrison (Dima Yakovlev) case that decided to try the case as an intentional homicide rather than as negligent one.

Either the prosecutor was stupidly greedy or incredibly dense.
If not for this charging blunder, the father would have been doing time.
Instead, it's considered verification by the Russians that the entire American legal system is flawed.



I don't disagree with your analysis about the prosecutor, but I also don't think their conclusions about the American legal system is all that off either.

And, as I said to Seraphym, they're a sovereign country. Instead of treating them like a province of the empire, perhaps we should act with some deference and respect.

To some degree that's what even motivated me to comment in the first place, all the farkers on here just spouting anti-Russian bullshiat. It's just all recycled cliches from Bond movies and from watching Rocky 4 too many times. It's all groupthink that "boy the Russians are backwards for writing this stupid law so their orphans can't live in an American McMansion and enjoy the luxuries of Amerikkka."

They're a sovereign country. We made a law that offended them, and said who cares at the consequences. They took an action, perhaps motivated by indignation at our arrogance, but maybe not. But the specific case they used should cause some pause for our jingoistic attitude that the white man's burden is to take all the slavic kids we can and give them our lifestyle. There's an opportunity for multiple moments of necessary introspection on our legal system, culture, foreign policy, and laws, that the discussion here just outright arrogantly dismisses.

Look at how long it took this discussion even to mention Yakovlev's name.

rt.com
 
2012-12-27 07:24:38 AM  
I understand taking kids from poverty etc etc etc
so if you really just can't stand the thought of adopting an american child
or you simply must have a white kid
then by all means
this law is a tragedy for you

the preceeding message brought to you by the unworthy of adoption
who finds you unworthy of respect
so here's a heaping spoonful of my disgust
 
2012-12-27 07:34:33 AM  

quiet_american: I don't disagree with your analysis about the prosecutor, but I also don't think their conclusions about the American legal system is all that off either.


Oh puh-lease Quiet American!
Can you even imagine having to give 20 dollars to a cop that stopped you for a spot-check on your way to work just so he won't detain you for a few hours for nothing? That's the way it is right now in Russia. If the Russian cop thinks you are unclear about his expectations he will even let you know up front how much you should pay! That's just how it is there. Russians know all about this.

Our American justice system is far from perfect, but Thank You Jebus we don't have the entrenched corruption like they do in Russia.

Please don't confuse the issue that the death of even one adopted child is "okay".
It's not.
But that's not really what all of this is about.

Magnitsky was a 37-year-old Russian attorney and accountant who worked for a Russian hedge fund. In the course of his work, he uncovered a giant corruption scheme that involved embezzlements of $230 million from the Russian treasury by both Russian law enforcement and tax officials. After he went public with his accusations he was arrested. While in custody he was beaten to death by guards. His corruption accusation was swept under the carpet and never investigated.

The congressman from Maryland who sponsored the bill is the son of Russian Jewish immigrants, interestingly enough.

The Russian "anti-Magnitsky" law is drawn so wide that it bears absolutely no rational relationship to the harm it's allegedly trying to correct. They didn't even try to hide it.

Word has it that there's even more corruption going on now in China.
But apparently we owe them a shiatload of money.

/Politics
 
2012-12-27 08:08:56 AM  

natas6.0: I understand taking kids from poverty etc etc etc
so if you really just can't stand the thought of adopting an american child
or you simply must have a white kid
then by all means
this law is a tragedy for you

the preceeding message brought to you by the unworthy of adoption
who finds you unworthy of respect
so here's a heaping spoonful of my disgust


Again, there are a lot of Americans who would love to adopt an American child.

They just don't want to put in years of effort and emotional attachment only to lose the kid because the biological mommy managed to get clean long enough to pass one drug test.

You can thank Family Values voters and the Law of Unintended Consequences for that.
 
2012-12-27 08:40:01 AM  
PunGent
you unfortunately have an excellent point on that
it's rare, but that it happens at all enrages me to no end.

you can't just blame the family values types
most of that comes from the peace and love Mr. Garrison types
using/making/manipulating the law to their own end
sometimes using race as if it means something to a child
they can look at a crackwhore and see a shining example of humanity
stable families mean nothing when compared to the scag that vag-shat out a child
 
2012-12-27 11:34:01 AM  

quiet_american: Seraphym: quiet_american: Seraphym

You import bad motives onto the entire Russian political system because they make laws off of a tragedy. You used statistics to deflect away from that primary tragedy (not even mentioned in the article and only obliquely referenced by you). So, yes, you are the asshole trying to use numbers to get away from the emotional story.


Right, because laws with far reaching and years-long repercussions should be based on emotional reactions instead of well-reasoned logic. Good for you... I bet you support the Patriot Act and the formation of the TSA in full as well.

My ability to separate emotional reactions from the necessary logic and rigor to make a decision seems to confuse you... perhaps you can't tell the difference, like my mother-in-law.

SweetMama: Seraphym: Don't take it so personal. This is fark. You are arguing with an adolescent, or a troll. Let it go.


Yeah, I'm done talking with this clown.
 
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