mbillips: DeadGeek: Why would I want to adopt a mail order bride subby?

Does this answer your question, tovarisch?

[www.rbrides.com image 450x644]

And she comes with a free copy of Photoshop.

DaintySavage:
Don't know where you heard it was cheaper internationally.

Mine cost about $22,000 total including travel expenses. She's cost me a lot more since then. ;-)

onyxruby: out to meet one a few times. He was raised in South

Sheesh. American women : All I can say is, get away. Don't come hanging around my door, I don't want to see your face no more. Frankly, I don't need your war machines, and I don't need your ghetto scenes.

so you can still import the raw components, just not the finished product. makes sense from an import export practicality standpoint.

kindms:

The primary reason we were approved to adopt these children is because the officials in that country agreed with the agency. That is, the children would almost certainly not be adopted locally because of their ethnicity. Maybe you should move there, you'll fit right in.

I pity you for your poisoned mind, but I will not have any further discourse with you.

So let me get this straight; The Russian govt wants to punish the US by not letting us take the financial burden of caring for orphans off their hands.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: chuckufarlie: They do not want their children gunned down in American Schools,

Yeah, the Commies dont no nutting about no school shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

That was organized terrorism by militant separatists, not a crazy dude with his mama's gun collection.
Do you also think 9/11 is just like any other work-place violence?

Miss Cellania: Adopting internationally is usually easier. My husband and I were ineligible for public adoption because we hadn't been married long enough, unless we wanted to take in a "problem teenager" temporarily (which I have done since then, but at the time I was an inexperienced parent). We couldn't compete in the private adoption market -too old, not married long enough, and not wealthy. So we adopted internationally.

There are plenty of children in the US who need homes, but the vast majority are not available for permanent adoption because their parents retain rights even if they can't take care of the child.

This.

Have a close friend who is/was going through the adoption process from Russia right now, and my wife and I looked into as well. It seems there are more than 650,000 children in orphanages in Russia, and the US is the #1 adopter of these children. Children in Russia orphanages are not available for adoption to the US until they've been there for nearly a year, so the Russians themselves have a chance to adopt them. The American adoption process is longer, more strict and carries with it the terrible possibility that the baby you adopt and raise for a year or more can be taken away from you with little warning because the mom, or another relative, suddenly decided they wanted the child back. This would be heartbreaking to nearly any parent, and even more so for one whom adoption was the only way to have a child at all. The bolded part was the reason my wife and I werent interested in US adoption and spent our money on IVF (which thankfully worked).

Yes, 19 adopted children from Russia have died in the care of their American parents in the last 20 years... out of more than 60,000 adoptions by Americans of Russian children. That's .03%, or 25 times lower than the mortality rate of US-born children under age 5. But since this is Fark, I expect illogical conclusions right in line with the stupidity of the Duma, cherry-picking disaster cases which can and do exist anywhere in the world as "the norm," and a "well good American kids need it more" uninformed attitude. Oh, and in the same 20-year period in which 19 kids from Russian orphanages died in the US, 1200+ former orphans died at the hands of their Russian adoptive families. Source

/the Duma are competing with our Congress for emotional knee-jerk legislature

Seraphym

A nice way to use statistics to obscure the fact that a Russian child died from being left in a car for nine hours.

That Americans have killed less than Russians, go USA!

This whole thread is just a bunch of morons spouting off about how great the USA is, based off of one shiatty article.

LargeCanine: Cymbal: Aren't the brides emotionally and intellectually still children too?

Part of the appeal right?

Actually, Russian and Slavic women in general have a cultural aversion to being seen as immature. They work very hard to earn respect as mature adults and tend to look down at the idea of wanting to be younger than they are. Pretty much the opposite of Western women.

So true.  And they really frown on "immature" behavior on the part of males, as well - so no Jackass type antics or eating bacon with everything (there's a time and a place for most things - but don't expect overly wild sex either).

Russian women are often very strong-willed.  Very.  (So are the men)

quiet_american: Seraphym

A nice way to use statistics to obscure the fact that a Russian child died from being left in a car for nine hours.

That Americans have killed less than Russians, go USA!

This whole thread is just a bunch of morons spouting off about how great the USA is, based off of one shiatty article.

Yep, surely that's what I did, tried to obscure a tragedy with facts...



Perhaps you can enlighten all of us: how does me providing data demonstrating that Russian kids adopted by Americans stand a far better chance of being raised in a loving home, or of just staying alive, than they would have if adopted by Russian parents, when the entire argument that the Duma is making with their new law is that these orphans should not be allowed to be found and adopted by American families and be instead adopted by just Russians? My argument had direct bearing on the Duma's logic (or lack thereof)... but you went with "obscuring a death."

So, one person acting horribly negligent (at the least) and letting their adopted child die in a locked car is justification to you to strip the chance of finding loving parents in the US from 1000+ Russian orphans per year, many only toddlers?

"Albert Likhanov, president of the non-governmental Russian Children's Fund, says that the proposed ban would result in the approximately 1,000 orphans adopted each year by US families to be institutionalized instead of ending up in loving homes.

"I fully understand the wish of many Russians that our children would all be adequately cared for in Russia. But this is not the situation today, and a child cannot wait for everything to get stabilized," he says.

Mr. Likhanov said that Putin's predecessor, Dmitry Medvedev, once pointed out that in 2008 alone there were 130,000 cases in Russia of violence against children and over 2,000 deaths.

"There is a crisis in our system, and this debate shows that there are people who are willing to use our orphans as political footballs. . . this conflict makes clear that all is not well in own kingdom," he says."

Meanwhile, "about 130,000 Russians have signed a petition at the website of opposition newspaper Novaya Gazeta asking the Kremlin to scrap the proposed ban."

Read the book The Boy from Baby House 10 (if you have the stomach - I skimmed it and was appalled) as my friend trying to adopt from Russia did, and then tell me what the Russian Duma is doing makes sense, unless you factor in their sense of national shame over their whole inability to provide for these children and desire to "show up" the West (again, as I said, an emotional reaction).

chuckufarlie: They do not want their children gunned down in American Schools,

letrole: It's ok to have one or two pet issues, but you've crossed the line into obsession. No guns here. Nothing to see. Move along now.

ThePastafarian: Oh wow, one of the most notorious pet issues troll (that is your surname right?) is complaining about pet issues folks. I marked your post as "funny".


I'm not complaining about pet issues. I'm complaining about off-topic obsession with a given issue. You see, 'off-topic' means 'not related to the subject of the thread'. It seems that chuckufarlie has an anti-gun-fetish. That's cool, but it doesn't have jack-shiat to do with Russian orphans.

You made a completely irrelevant point about my post concerning yet another poster who made an irrelevant point. What's your point? You have no point except a pointless opportunity to make a pointless and impotent attempt to insult me. The meta-dumbass factor is staggering.

This sort of stupidity is what makes my job so hard.

A very good friend of my wife adopted a little girl from a Siberian orphanage about 10 years ago. She had an older sister who was not eligible for adoption at the time, but the intention was always to bring the older sister as soon as she was allowed. the would visit repeatedly, multiple times in a year to try and get things moving. She's on a first name basis with everyone up to our Senators. But...a combination of Russian bureaucratic inefficiency, 'Crazy Ivan' politics like this, and a reticence for the adoptive parents to play the usual game of graft and palm-greasing, and the older sister actually aged out of the system before the adoption could be finished...and was kicked out onto the street at 17. About a year ago, she was caught in the middle of a convenience store holdup and shot in the ankle. She couldn't even get a medical emergency visa to the states with the mom offering to pay all expenses. So now she's got a permanent limp, lives on friend's sofas and, despite a family ready willing and able to take care of her, looks forward to a future on being a orphan with a 10th grade education in Siberia.

Worse, they met and were looking to adopt a third child, a boy from the orphanage. That's gone to hell now too.

I blame Stalin. His mind-fark of the Russian people is still having repercussions to this day.

Seraphym: Don't take it so personal. This is fark. You are arguing with an adolescent, or a troll. Let it go.

quiet_american: A nice way to use statistics to obscure the fact that a Russian child died from being left in a car for nine hours.

Don't forget also that it was the prosecutor in the Chase Harrison (Dima Yakovlev) case that decided to try the case as an intentional homicide rather than as negligent one.

Either the prosecutor was stupidly greedy or incredibly dense.
If not for this charging blunder, the father would have been doing time.
Instead, it's considered verification by the Russians that the entire American legal system is flawed.

I've looked at the new legislation.
Basically, if you've ever looked sideways at a Russian then -- No Russian Visa for YOU, Commrade!
I'm pretty sure that the TSA agent who took away the vodak from that Russian who was then forced to drink it all down, arguably violated that Russians "fundamental rights and freedoms" and can now never get a tourist visa to Russia.

Thank god there is still Ukraine!
----

Measures Against Persons Who Violate The Fundamental Rights And Freedoms of Russian Citizens
Adopted by the State Duma on December 21, 2012

Article 1
Measures against persons involved in the violation of fundamental human rights and freedoms of Russian citizens shall include:

1) A ban on entry into Russia of any US citizen who:

a) Is or has been involved with the violations of fundamental rights and freedoms of Russian citizens; or

b) Has committed crimes against Russian citizens living abroad, or was involved in the commission of such crimes; or

c) Has in any official capacity contributed by either his or her actions (or inactions) to release the perpetrators of crimes against Russian citizens; or

d) Has contributed by making or refusing to make any decision which had the effect of releasing the perpetrators of a crime against a Russian citizen; or

e) Was involved in the kidnapping or unlawful imprisonment of any Russian citizen; or

f) Has rendered an unfounded or unjust sentence against a Russian citizen; or

g) Took part in judicial persecution of a Russian citizen; or

h) Made an unreasonable decision which violated the rights of a Russian citizen or of a Russian organization.

(translation is my own)

I didn't finish because I had to be to the gym in 18 minutes, the hogs needed sloppin' and i had to burp the cat.

/Uncle Schmegicky

Seraphym: quiet_american: Seraphym

Yep, surely that's what I did, tried to obscure a tragedy with facts...

[media.tumblr.com image 235x206]




Russia is a sovereign country, they can do whatever they want. And if they want to overreact to one death, fine.

We don't have some God-given right to adopt Russian kids because we have a better economy. Because their system is shiat doesn't mean we have some kind of neocolonial obligation to free their children from bad orphanages.

Bad laws are made all the time in this country because of one tragedy or a small handful.

Not to mention that the US law that supposedly provoked this was stupid on our part as well. The US has this perpetual mental need to tell every country how to live. Under the guise of "human rights" we arrogantly tell every country how to live, and write laws to enforce our values. Good for Russia to stand up and respond. Instead of an arrogant superpower, "WE HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR CHILDREN!" we should be a little more humble, and a little more respectful of their jurisdiction, sovereignty and national rights.

You import bad motives onto the entire Russian political system because they make laws off of a tragedy. You used statistics to deflect away from that primary tragedy (not even mentioned in the article and only obliquely referenced by you). So, yes, you are the asshole trying to use numbers to get away from the emotional story.

Schmegicky: quiet_american: A nice way to use statistics to obscure the fact that a Russian child died from being left in a car for nine hours.

Don't forget also that it was the prosecutor in the Chase Harrison (Dima Yakovlev) case that decided to try the case as an intentional homicide rather than as negligent one.

Either the prosecutor was stupidly greedy or incredibly dense.
If not for this charging blunder, the father would have been doing time.
Instead, it's considered verification by the Russians that the entire American legal system is flawed.



I don't disagree with your analysis about the prosecutor, but I also don't think their conclusions about the American legal system is all that off either.

And, as I said to Seraphym, they're a sovereign country. Instead of treating them like a province of the empire, perhaps we should act with some deference and respect.

To some degree that's what even motivated me to comment in the first place, all the farkers on here just spouting anti-Russian bullshiat. It's just all recycled cliches from Bond movies and from watching Rocky 4 too many times. It's all groupthink that "boy the Russians are backwards for writing this stupid law so their orphans can't live in an American McMansion and enjoy the luxuries of Amerikkka."

They're a sovereign country. We made a law that offended them, and said who cares at the consequences. They took an action, perhaps motivated by indignation at our arrogance, but maybe not. But the specific case they used should cause some pause for our jingoistic attitude that the white man's burden is to take all the slavic kids we can and give them our lifestyle. There's an opportunity for multiple moments of necessary introspection on our legal system, culture, foreign policy, and laws, that the discussion here just outright arrogantly dismisses.

Look at how long it took this discussion even to mention Yakovlev's name.

quiet_american: I don't disagree with your analysis about the prosecutor, but I also don't think their conclusions about the American legal system is all that off either.

Oh puh-lease Quiet American!
Can you even imagine having to give 20 dollars to a cop that stopped you for a spot-check on your way to work just so he won't detain you for a few hours for nothing? That's the way it is right now in Russia. If the Russian cop thinks you are unclear about his expectations he will even let you know up front how much you should pay! That's just how it is there. Russians know all about this.

Our American justice system is far from perfect, but Thank You Jebus we don't have the entrenched corruption like they do in Russia.

Please don't confuse the issue that the death of even one adopted child is "okay".
It's not.
But that's not really what all of this is about.

Magnitsky was a 37-year-old Russian attorney and accountant who worked for a Russian hedge fund. In the course of his work, he uncovered a giant corruption scheme that involved embezzlements of $230 million from the Russian treasury by both Russian law enforcement and tax officials. After he went public with his accusations he was arrested. While in custody he was beaten to death by guards. His corruption accusation was swept under the carpet and never investigated.

The congressman from Maryland who sponsored the bill is the son of Russian Jewish immigrants, interestingly enough.

The Russian "anti-Magnitsky" law is drawn so wide that it bears absolutely no rational relationship to the harm it's allegedly trying to correct. They didn't even try to hide it.

Word has it that there's even more corruption going on now in China.
But apparently we owe them a shiatload of money.

/Politics

natas6.0: I understand taking kids from poverty etc etc etc
so if you really just can't stand the thought of adopting an american child
or you simply must have a white kid
then by all means
this law is a tragedy for you

the preceeding message brought to you by the unworthy of adoption
who finds you unworthy of respect
so here's a heaping spoonful of my disgust

Again, there are a lot of Americans who would love to adopt an American child.

They just don't want to put in years of effort and emotional attachment only to lose the kid because the biological mommy managed to get clean long enough to pass one drug test.

You can thank Family Values voters and the Law of Unintended Consequences for that.

quiet_american: Seraphym: quiet_american: Seraphym

You import bad motives onto the entire Russian political system because they make laws off of a tragedy. You used statistics to deflect away from that primary tragedy (not even mentioned in the article and only obliquely referenced by you). So, yes, you are the asshole trying to use numbers to get away from the emotional story.

Right, because laws with far reaching and years-long repercussions should be based on emotional reactions instead of well-reasoned logic. Good for you... I bet you support the Patriot Act and the formation of the TSA in full as well.

My ability to separate emotional reactions from the necessary logic and rigor to make a decision seems to confuse you... perhaps you can't tell the difference, like my mother-in-law.

SweetMama: Seraphym: Don't take it so personal. This is fark. You are arguing with an adolescent, or a troll. Let it go.

Yeah, I'm done talking with this clown.