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(Telegraph)   With the Red Menace over, The Doctor is sad because he has to star in his own show again. Will Intergalactic Lesbians, a redesigned TARDIS, and his new companion's lovely Dalek Bumps be enough to cheer him up in Doctor Who: "The Snowmen"?   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 310
    More: Interesting, Doctor Who, Intergalactic Lesbians, Dalek Bumps, physicians, Victorian London, Weeping Angels, Emmerdale, Strictly Come Dancing  
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5336 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Dec 2012 at 12:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-26 10:20:44 AM

ClintonKun: I can't be the only one who loved the imagery of the TARDIS on top of a cloud with a spiral staircase leading up to it. That is probably the purest depiction of the "fairy tale" theme that Moffat has been going for.


*raises hand* Sort of Peter Pan-ish, if you will.
 
2012-12-26 10:24:33 AM

Rwa2play: Hmmm...possible spoiler there?


My thought has always been that the Time Lords are coming back because you don't cast someone like Timothy Dalton as Emperor of the Time Lords for a one-shot deal. Moffat is playing a long game with the show, and I've always got the sense he thought the whole notion of the Time War and writing the other Time Lords out was a mistake. Their existence justifies the Doctor's focus on an insignificant planet in a "galactic backwater", as they're out there, taking care of all the rest of space/time.
 
2012-12-26 10:28:54 AM

ClintonKun: Wild Implausible Theory time: Clara is a renegade Great Old One who divided herself into multiple eras.


I was wondering if she has some sort of split-across-time thing going on a la Scaroth.
 
2012-12-26 10:35:21 AM

sage37: Dwight_Yeast: Sorry, I'm watching the episode again while I'm eating breakfast, hence all the posts.

The line: "He is not your salvation nor your protector" is Moffat undoing all of RTD's work in a single stroke. I get the feeling we're getting a VERY different series from here on out!

Except Clara responded that Vastra was merely saying 'words' i.e. lies.

I really like the new companion, and don't mind that she has some sort of cosmic mystery behind her - I think it's smart to give the companions intergalactic importance.


You've got a good point there, but I was taught to always look at a line like that as important even when it's negated.

It speaks to the Doctor's mindset in the episode. And it does seem directed at RTD no matter how you slice it.

I like the notion that the new companion is going to be able to take care of herself, and that she ISN'T human. If she's some form of Time Lord or higher being, the Doctor will be more comfortable as she's not going to age out on him and when she leaves (when the actress decides to leave) we're not going to get another downer ending.
 
2012-12-26 10:49:16 AM

Mad_Radhu: Metaluna Mutant: Wow! The Great Intelligence. One of the last of the classic who villains that has never re-appeared, until now. I always thought Lincoln and Haisman would never allow its re-use -- they had a falling out with the DW producers and refused to come back and write a third, concluding Great Intelligence story (which also would have seen the departure of Jamie). I know Haisman died in 2010, but Lincoln's still alive.

I wonder if they'll keep Ian McKellan for its voice in the (certain) future episodes.

Reading the Doctor Who wikis, it seems that at some point the Great Intelligence was established as being Yog-Sothoth. Did this happen in the Troughton stories, or was this in other, more dubiously canon stories? If it was the former, a Great Old God type entity would be a good antagonist for the 50th anniversary.


The DW novels are congruent to the Star Wars Expanded universe stuff. Honesetly, as much as I love Lovecraft also, I'd rather then go with a entirely new origin, story motivation etc for the GI. The 2 Troughton stories never give proper exposition for the GI, other than it's from another dimension, and works through others to slowly "force" its way into ours. I'd rather a completely new story told.


www.bbc.co.uk (pic hot as a yeti)

I just want a those Silver Spheres to appear, even if it's only a dead/old/useless artifact. Very cool.
Actually, The Great Intelligence works very much like the Nestenes -- though Bob Holmes invented those and their affinity for (and his own loathing of) plastics.
 
2012-12-26 10:55:54 AM

t3knomanser: Dwight_Yeast: but he's so far ahead of the game that it appears he doesn't know what he's doing at all. It's like Einstein times a thousand.

Which, I think, is a big part of the reason people complain that things happen around the Doctor and he isn't actually important to the plot. Eleven is much more focused on putting the right people in the right places at the right times than he is on doing everything by himself.


If what he did with Clara Oswin Oswald (COO) is Eleven's new M.O., then I'm for it. Letting other people make or seem to make their own choices to take action isn't a bad thing. It's a better strategy for someone who is tired of doing all the work of saving and nothing getting better. Having a ready savior around doesn't typically inspire people to save themselves or others. It's like a parent who so wants their child to get good grades in school that they do all the kid's homework. Or a manager who fills in all the gaps in his team's performance by doing all the extra work without telling them. It really implies a lack of faith and trust to take the role of hero and not let anyone else step up.

Plus, like Doctors Two and Seven, Eleven is quite the tester and manipulator at times, and COO offers him both a tremendous mystery to solve and an extraordinary bodyintelligence to explore.


My only concern, and this struck me after reading HopScotchNSoda's comment above, is that COO may have more in common with LHO than just a last name and significant date. A sleeper assassin was already sent after The Doctor and failed, what if COO, with all of her Timey-Wimey, Deathy-Lifey (Sexy-Wexy) incarnations, is a contingency plan?
 
2012-12-26 11:05:44 AM
COO is what the Daleks were afraid of. A reality bomb experiment gone perky? We'll see.
 
2012-12-26 11:08:44 AM

Rwa2play: ClintonKun: I can't be the only one who loved the imagery of the TARDIS on top of a cloud with a spiral staircase leading up to it. That is probably the purest depiction of the "fairy tale" theme that Moffat has been going for.

*raises hand* Sort of Peter Pan-ish, if you will.


Better than that. Moffat can create worlds like JK Rowlings does.

And at his best, it's almost like watching Shakespeare, or at least Tom Stoppard. I just noticed the beautiful parallelism of the Doctor at the pond mistaking the Sultarian for Clara followed by Clara mistake the Ice Nanny for the Doctor. I want to take this episode apart and play with its gears.

I bring up Shakespeare because there's something about he "Halfway through the dark" speech which reminds me of the speech from Henry V that Branaugh did at the Olympic opening ceremonies; they strike the same tine with the moldy of their words.
 
2012-12-26 11:27:19 AM

ClintonKun: I can't be the only one who loved the imagery of the TARDIS on top of a cloud with a spiral staircase leading up to it. That is probably the purest depiction of the "fairy tale" theme that Moffat has been going for.


I thought it was cool, and could come in handy in future episodes. Plus there was something very "Christmassy" about it.
 
2012-12-26 11:32:20 AM
The episode was also a good segway into future episodes unlike the Christmas special from 2010. I loved the one in 2010 (flying sharks pulling a sleigh would be cool). But it was clearly disconnected from the episodes that came later, and that's to be expected in Christmas specials because they are unusual. However last night's Christmas special seemed to have more fluidity that will be easy to blend into the later plots of the series.
 
2012-12-26 11:35:23 AM
Metaluna Mutant:
I just want a those Silver Spheres to appear, even if it's only a dead/old/useless artifact. Very cool.

I thought the 'snowglobe' was a shout-out to that, actually:

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-12-26 11:36:06 AM
I take back my last theory above. Upon further review, I see that HopScotchNSoda got the dates of COO's birth and LHO's death slightly wrong.

LHO died on Nov 24. Nov 23 was the first air date of Doctor Who, and the date marked on COO's gravestone as being her birth day.


...Which is just as well, because I'd kind of hate it if COO was a baddie or merely a River redux. Better she be a sort of cosmic Hello Kitty (i.e.: she shows up in some form no matter where you go) than a secret villain.
 
2012-12-26 11:38:01 AM

Metaluna Mutant:
Reading the Doctor Who wikis, it seems that at some point the Great Intelligence was established as being Yog-Sothoth. Did this happen in the Troughton stories, or was this in other, more dubiously canon stories? If it was the former, a Great Old God type entity would be a good antagonist for the 50th anniversary.

The DW novels are congruent to the Star Wars Expanded universe stuff. Honesetly, as much as I love Lovecraft also, I'd rather then go with a entirely new origin, story motivation etc for the GI. The 2 Troughton stories never give proper exposition for the GI, other than it's from another dimension, and works through others to slowly "force" its way into ours. I'd rather a completely new story told.


[www.bbc.co.uk image 340x255] (pic hot as a yeti)

I just want a those Silver Spheres to appear, even if it's only a dead/old/useless artifact. Very cool.
Actually, The Great Intelligence works very much like the Nestenes -- though Bob Holmes invented those and their affinity for (and his own loathing of) plastics.


An idea the (then) DW writer Douglas Adams used for a DW pitch that was rejected so he worked it into the third HHGTTG book Life The Universe And Everything. Hactar was the super computer tasked with building a weapon that could destroy the universe but was destroyed by his creators when he deliberately built a dud. Now a cloud of particles he spent centuries slowly influencing the people of Krikket to carry out his original goal.
I have no idea if the idea was for the DW script to be the Great Intelligence or a different character.
 
2012-12-26 11:45:39 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Rwa2play: Hmmm...possible spoiler there?

My thought has always been that the Time Lords are coming back because you don't cast someone like Timothy Dalton as Emperor of the Time Lords for a one-shot deal. Moffat is playing a long game with the show, and I've always got the sense he thought the whole notion of the Time War and writing the other Time Lords out was a mistake. Their existence justifies the Doctor's focus on an insignificant planet in a "galactic backwater", as they're out there, taking care of all the rest of space/time.


Ever since the forthcoming Anniversary season I've thought they'll do something significant with the Time War. With the potential of the previous incarnations of the Doctor returning, I can see one way of the Time War being rewritten/retconned (read: Romana).
 
2012-12-26 11:52:13 AM

Rwa2play: dramatools: Rwa2play: The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.
That's another revived element of the original series. Matt Smith is the first Doctor to appear in the main titles since McCoy. It was a signature element, except during the Colin Baker era when Six looked entirely too smarmy.

Very cool touch by the graphics people including Smith's image in the opening credits; paying homage to the original series (and considering what next year is, very apropo). And yeah, Six's image was too...smarmy.

I'm not going to go into the Clara/Oswin thing, except that Moffat is going to have a lot of fun with us over Season 7's back nine. Ok, maybe one part. It is unusual that the Doctor is now chasing the girl.

Yeah, this is going to be a very fun half-season in the Doctor chasing COO (instead of the other way around); for me it's going to be not so much who is she but what is she? Is she an anomaly in time? Someone trapped in time? Someone that's being forced to relive her life through time (ala Batman post-"Final Crisis")?

Should make for an interesting run leading up to the 50th Anniversary season.


She's The Doctor's Agrajag.

/He'd best steer clear of Stavromula Beta
 
2012-12-26 11:52:30 AM

Dwight_Yeast: I like the notion that the new companion is going to be able to take care of herself, and that she ISN'T human. If she's some form of Time Lord or higher being, the Doctor will be more comfortable as she's not going to age out on him and when she leaves (when the actress decides to leave) we're not going to get another downer ending.


Yeah, I almost wish this would be a full season on it's own; the possibilities with this plot/line of thinking can be endless.
 
2012-12-26 11:58:00 AM

Rhypskallion: COO is what the Daleks were afraid of. A reality bomb experiment gone perky? We'll see.


I think there's something more that even the Daleks couldn't comprehend and...there'll probably be a connection between her and the GI. Perhaps even something linking her, the GI and the Time War (a stretch but hey, while we're throwing out theories...).
 
2012-12-26 11:59:37 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Along similar lines, I realized earlier today that I'd love for someone on the show for once to look at the TARDIS and say, "It's a Police Box. Well, to be precise, it's something that looks like a police box but isn't" and then run down all the things that are "wrong" with it compared to the real thing (putting a lampshade on the fact that the prop on the show has never been an exact copy). It's the sort of thing that could be done in an episode set in the 40s or 50s in London, when they were still a common sight.


It happened in Blink. The cop gives 1 or 2 details about why it isn't a real phone box.
 
2012-12-26 12:00:32 PM

DjangoStonereaver:

I thought the 'snowglobe' was a shout-out to that, actually:

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 720x404]

I definitely got that vibe. And since the "second" GI story (Abominable snowmen) is set in 1923, it might explain where the GI gets the sphere-form. Gotta love Moffat, he knew only hardocre fans would get the reference, and adapted/modernized it to look good onscreen.

Flint Ironstag:

An idea the (then) DW writer Douglas Adams used for a DW pitch that was rejected so he worked it into the third HHGTTG book Life The Universe And Everything. Hactar was the super computer tasked with building a weapon that could destroy the universe but was destroyed by his creators when he deliberately built a dud. Now a cloud of particles he spent centuries slowly influencing the people of Krikket to carry out his original goal.
I have no idea if the idea was for the DW script to be the Great Intelligence or a different character.


That was Adam's idea for a DW movie, which he cannibalized and made into a HHGTG story. Adams took every unused concept he ever had and put it into something else later.
 
2012-12-26 12:15:31 PM

Metaluna Mutant:

That was Adam's idea for a DW movie, which he cannibalized and made into a HHGTG story. Adams took every unused concept he ever had and put it into something else later.


I'm not surprised considering he hated writing. My favourite quote of his is "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they fly by". And I still have the letter he sent me on BBC notepaper when I wrote to him years ago. The only time I have ever written a fan letter to a celebrity.
 
2012-12-26 12:16:14 PM

Jorn the Younger:
She's The Doctor's Agrajag.

/He'd best steer clear of Stavromula Beta


She has nicer teeth.
 
2012-12-26 12:24:14 PM

Flint Ironstag: Jorn the Younger:
She's The Doctor's Agrajag.

/He'd best steer clear of Stavromula Beta

She has nicer teeth.


So, she's definitely not as British as she appears.

/Finally watching the episode now. Loving the story, and Gandalf's voice. (Plus Doctor 7 was Radagast, someone write a crossover)
//They do seem to be hitting the "Doctor Who??" Thing just a little too hard, though.
///Liking Clara, but missing Rory some.
////Donna still best NuWho companion.
 
2012-12-26 12:24:50 PM

Rwa2play: Rhypskallion: COO is what the Daleks were afraid of. A reality bomb experiment gone perky? We'll see.

I think there's something more that even the Daleks couldn't comprehend and...there'll probably be a connection between her and the GI. Perhaps even something linking her, the GI and the Time War (a stretch but hey, while we're throwing out theories...).


Ok, my daughter's theory (14): The Doctor is still in the Asylum.
 
2012-12-26 12:40:05 PM
Still not sold on the new Tardis. I do like the new opening--except the explosion sounds when the logo pops up, that looks unnecessary.
 
2012-12-26 12:40:17 PM

Rhypskallion: Ok, my daughter's theory (14): The Doctor is still in the Asylum.


And she escaped as the Dalek Empress:

horrorboom.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-26 12:56:14 PM

Rhypskallion: Still not sold on the new Tardis. I do like the new opening--except the explosion sounds when the logo pops up, that looks unnecessary.


Not big on the new opening, but I'll get over it. Change is part of the show. It's one of the only constants in the series.

/that and Moffat lies.
//and JNT was a dick
 
2012-12-26 12:59:32 PM
I think the 'memory worm' dialogue was some of the best I've seen...

I lost my shiat when Strax stared off and said, "Oh look, it's been snowing." and the facial expression that went with it was just priceless.
 
2012-12-26 01:01:10 PM

sage37: Dwight_Yeast: Sorry, I'm watching the episode again while I'm eating breakfast, hence all the posts.

The line: "He is not your salvation nor your protector" is Moffat undoing all of RTD's work in a single stroke. I get the feeling we're getting a VERY different series from here on out!

Except Clara responded that Vastra was merely saying 'words' i.e. lies.

I really like the new companion, and don't mind that she has some sort of cosmic mystery behind her - I think it's smart to give the companions intergalactic importance.


I hate the "mostest specialest girl in the universe". Completely sick of it. 8 years of some random 20-25-year-old Earth broad being the center f the Universe. I can stand it for another nine episodes, since the mystery seems to be more interesting this time than with the last one, but enough is enough... can't a mouthy flight attendant or random juggy broad just hop aboard the TARDIS once in a while without having to be the center of everything?

/The last half of the season looks like it's going to be fun. And I can only hope season 8/50 is a season about The Doctor, not the latest mostest specialest girl in the universe.
 
2012-12-26 01:02:25 PM

moike: I think the 'memory worm' dialogue was some of the best I've seen...

I lost my shiat when Strax stared off and said, "Oh look, it's been snowing." and the facial expression that went with it was just priceless.


Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff

Also the line Vastra uses "I'm the lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife" was just great.
 
2012-12-26 01:05:56 PM

moike: I think the 'memory worm' dialogue was some of the best I've seen...

I lost my shiat when Strax stared off and said, "Oh look, it's been snowing." and the facial expression that went with it was just priceless.


Doubly impressive due to the thickness the Sontaran makeup, even with modern facial appliance technology.
 
2012-12-26 01:10:57 PM
One thing... so Strax is alive again? It's not just Strax from a time before he died, but a resurrected Strax? And the only negative effect of his resurrection is that he finds it difficult to count to himself?

This didn't happen onscreen, did it?
 
2012-12-26 01:16:22 PM

FirstNationalBastard: One thing... so Strax is alive again? It's not just Strax from a time before he died, but a resurrected Strax? And the only negative effect of his resurrection is that he finds it difficult to count to himself?

This didn't happen onscreen, did it?


There was a throwaway line about how he was revived by someone. Good enough for me. Doctor Who is one show where I simply don't bother with continuity aside from each season on its own.
 
2012-12-26 01:27:53 PM

FirstNationalBastard: One thing... so Strax is alive again? It's not just Strax from a time before he died, but a resurrected Strax? And the only negative effect of his resurrection is that he finds it difficult to count to himself?
This didn't happen onscreen, did it?



All Sontarans are clones. I figured resurrection is easier to explain to the Victorian English than cloning.
 
2012-12-26 01:50:03 PM

FirstNationalBastard: One thing... so Strax is alive again? It's not just Strax from a time before he died, but a resurrected Strax? And the only negative effect of his resurrection is that he finds it difficult to count to himself?

This didn't happen onscreen, did it?



No, he was assumed to have permanently died in Rory's arms -- his last words being a response to Rory reminding him that he is a warrior, "Rory, I'm a nurse," presumably unaware of the Last Centurion's identical dual nature.

The Doctor told Clara in the carriage that Strax laid down his life for one of the Doctor's friends (i.e. River and/or Amy). When Clara pointed out that Strax is nevertheless alive, the Doctor stated that another of his friends brought him back. Whether that other friend was Rory the nurse using the advanced technology of the Demon's Run sickbay, or the Siren who was presumably still aboard Captain Avery's space pirate ship, or River kissing life back into him, was not stated. Hell, he might have even received organs transplanted from Dorium's decapitated body.

On a separate note:

I just realised another name. While "Smith", "Jones", and Williams are understandably frequently used, Latimer - although not particularly obscure - seems comparatively unusual. That it should pop up again in another period piece set 21 years earlier gives me pause. Young quasi-companion Tim Latimer was "John Smith"'s pupil in 1913 in "Human Nature" & "The Family of Blood". Both he and Jackson Lake who lived on Latimer Road in 1851 had their brains infused with some of the Tenth Doctor's memories.
 
2012-12-26 01:53:11 PM

Titanius Anglesmith: Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff


I know Moffat's already doing Sherlock, but Strax, Vastra, and Jenny need to have their own spin-off where they're a Sherlock Holmes/Sarah Jane Smith crew that solves bizarre crimes and threats. I would subscribe to cable again if I could get that on BBCA.
 
2012-12-26 01:56:59 PM
I have one whacked out theory from the episode last night.

When Clara is telling a bed time story, she mentions that she invented fish because she hated to swim alone. I think we get the "Jim the fish" adventure finally.

Though this would involve all of Clara's incarnations having some sort of shared memory, which could make sense.
 
2012-12-26 01:59:45 PM
Despite his race having but one gender, Strax is referred to by the masculine pronouns and generally thought of as male.

But he does have functional boobies. Did that contribute to his acceptance in the Vastra-Flint household? Does he provide "lactic fluid" for their tea and for cooking?
 
2012-12-26 02:03:19 PM

Gilliam317: I have one whacked out theory from the episode last night.

When Clara is telling a bed time story, she mentions that she invented fish because she hated to swim alone. I think we get the "Jim the fish" adventure finally.

Though this would involve all of Clara's incarnations having some sort of shared memory, which could make sense.



I suspect it is more likely - and no pun intended - a red herring. There was also the unspecified British queen in Moffat's "Bad Night", who had been turned into a goldfish.
 
2012-12-26 02:14:38 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Despite his race having but one gender, Strax is referred to by the masculine pronouns and generally thought of as male.

But he does have functional boobies. Did that contribute to his acceptance in the Vastra-Flint household? Does he provide "lactic fluid" for their tea and for cooking?


Doesn't he refer to the fact that he can lactate at the beginning of GMGTW?
 
2012-12-26 02:18:21 PM

Dwight_Yeast: In his brain, the lizard woman is perfectly respectable because she's married (it doesn't matter to whom) but the notion of a female servant being alone with a man is complete unacceptable.


That's not how I read that scene. My impression was that the Captain was a bit sweet on the Governess, which is why his response was a bewildered and crestfallen, "You have a gentleman friend?"

He didn't ignore all the important things and focus on the trivial, he ignored all the trivial and focused on the only thing that actually mattered to him.
 
2012-12-26 02:20:45 PM

skepticultist: Dwight_Yeast: In his brain, the lizard woman is perfectly respectable because she's married (it doesn't matter to whom) but the notion of a female servant being alone with a man is complete unacceptable.

That's not how I read that scene. My impression was that the Captain was a bit sweet on the Governess, which is why his response was a bewildered and crestfallen, "You have a gentleman friend?"

He didn't ignore all the important things and focus on the trivial, he ignored all the trivial and focused on the only thing that actually mattered to him.


I disagree. That sort of thing is very not Victorian.
 
2012-12-26 02:25:29 PM

Rhypskallion: Rwa2play: Rhypskallion: COO is what the Daleks were afraid of. A reality bomb experiment gone perky? We'll see.

I think there's something more that even the Daleks couldn't comprehend and...there'll probably be a connection between her and the GI. Perhaps even something linking her, the GI and the Time War (a stretch but hey, while we're throwing out theories...).

Ok, my daughter's theory (14): The Doctor is still in the Asylum.


That would mean the Pond's are still alive. So, probably not so much.
 
2012-12-26 02:26:43 PM

Bloody William: Titanius Anglesmith: Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff

I know Moffat's already doing Sherlock, but Strax, Vastra, and Jenny need to have their own spin-off where they're a Sherlock Holmes/Sarah Jane Smith crew that solves bizarre crimes and threats. I would subscribe to cable again if I could get that on BBCA.


I'd be down for that too.
 
2012-12-26 02:31:41 PM
Reminds me a bit of Tom Baker & City of death where the alien guy's spaceship exploded and he was splintered in time
but all versions of him shared their memories somehow...
Maybe that's what happened to Clara ?
 
2012-12-26 02:37:11 PM

TheManofPA: HopScotchNSoda: Despite his race having but one gender, Strax is referred to by the masculine pronouns and generally thought of as male.

But he does have functional boobies. Did that contribute to his acceptance in the Vastra-Flint household? Does he provide "lactic fluid" for their tea and for cooking?

Doesn't he refer to the fact that he can lactate at the beginning of GMGTW?


That was my point. Conversely, why does Vastra (or any Silurian female for that matter) have boobs? Silurians are not mammals (as she proudly notes).

It wasn't at the beginning, though, it was when he, the Williamses and the Doctor arrived in the hangar where the TARDIS was parked. Melody (through her Flesh avatar) was crying. Rory thought she had shiat herself, Amy, having not smelled any faeces thought she was hungry - so Strax proposed to feed her with his great quantities of lactic fluid. The Doctor, however, being able to speak Baby, knew that she needed a nap.

Moffat had Vastra make a big point about how refreshing human blood is to taste. Couple this with her demonstration in AGMGTW of "Why [Jenny] put up with [her]," and it appears that the little Mrs. gets properly cleaned out with no need for a d-bag.
images.tzaam.com
 
2012-12-26 02:37:14 PM

Titanius Anglesmith: Bloody William: Titanius Anglesmith: Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff

I know Moffat's already doing Sherlock, but Strax, Vastra, and Jenny need to have their own spin-off where they're a Sherlock Holmes/Sarah Jane Smith crew that solves bizarre crimes and threats. I would subscribe to cable again if I could get that on BBCA.

I'd be down for that too.


The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.
 
2012-12-26 02:53:05 PM

DjangoStonereaver: The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.

Moreover, period pieces are considerably more expensive than contemporary settings, what with props, set dressing, costumes, and hiding the anachronisms when shooting on-location. Right now, the Beeb is working with slashed budgets. Give it a few years before "Tipping the Scales" will be economically viable.
 
2012-12-26 03:00:01 PM

HopScotchNSoda: DjangoStonereaver: The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.
Moreover, period pieces are considerably more expensive than contemporary settings, what with props, set dressing, costumes, and hiding the anachronisms when shooting on-location. Right now, the Beeb is working with slashed budgets. Give it a few years before "Tipping the Scales" will be economically viable.


Another valid point, though I think that even with their tighter budgets the number of BBC-produced
dramas set in that time period means that they have standing sets and existing Victorian-era costumes
hand whereas a US-based production doesn't.

Still:  I think that the characters are best if used sparingly.
 
2012-12-26 03:11:04 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Conversely, why does Vastra (or any Silurian female for that matter) have boobs? Silurians are not mammals (as she proudly notes).


Which is why, I would argue that Jenny and Vastra aren't lesbians. It's a pedantic argument, but we're discussing Doctor Who, so it's in-bounds.

When we discuss sexual orientation, we are really discussing the affinity towards a certain combination of primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Most people seem to feel that even if someone had a desirable personality, they wouldn't be attracted to someone if that combination of sexual characteristics were not to their liking.

In that context, a lesbian would be a female who is attracted to individuals possessing the primary and secondary sex characteristics of female humans. Despite some similarities, Vastra could not have those characteristics. We see that she has organs similar to mammaries, but they can not possibly be breasts, and I would imagine that upon close examination, they wouldn't trigger the same responses as breasts. Similarly, Vastra likely has an organ similar to a cloaca, which upon close examination could not seem anything like a vagina (especially since it's the endpoint of the reproductive, urinary and digestive tracts).

Similar issues hold true for Vastra.

While they certainly have a same-sex relationship, due to their alien biologies, I would argue that they are not "lesbians" as we would typically conceive of it.

DjangoStonereaver: The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.


It looked like they started cheaping out on it a bit this episode, even.
 
2012-12-26 03:22:07 PM

DjangoStonereaver: Still:  I think that the characters are best if used sparingly.


Yes, they run the risk of over-use. River, as intriguing and fun as she is, was over-used last year. Strax last night was funny, but can you imagine that schtick week after week?
 
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