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(Telegraph)   With the Red Menace over, The Doctor is sad because he has to star in his own show again. Will Intergalactic Lesbians, a redesigned TARDIS, and his new companion's lovely Dalek Bumps be enough to cheer him up in Doctor Who: "The Snowmen"?   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 310
    More: Interesting, Doctor Who, Intergalactic Lesbians, Dalek Bumps, physicians, Victorian London, Weeping Angels, Emmerdale, Strictly Come Dancing  
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5336 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Dec 2012 at 12:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



310 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-25 08:59:49 AM
My humps, my humps, my lovely Dalek bumps.
 
2012-12-25 09:44:36 AM
Here's a spoiler: Rory dies.
 
2012-12-25 10:20:53 AM
I don't know anything about Dr. Who but what intergalactic lesbians might look like...

i.ytimg.com

janefae.files.wordpress.com

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-25 11:49:35 AM
"Intergalactic Lesbians" would also be a great name for an indie metal band.
 
2012-12-25 11:49:43 AM
Uh.

They re-designed the TARDIS!??

:/
 
2012-12-25 11:51:33 AM

Gunny Walker: Here's a spoiler: Rory dies.


At Khitomer.

At the hands of the Observers.

/and they find his body in a storage locker in Equestria
 
2012-12-25 12:04:18 PM
Ermaherd. Can't wait. I have to catch the midnight showing.

New companion! Yes!
 
2012-12-25 12:14:38 PM

Mugato: I don't know anything about Dr. Who but what intergalactic lesbians might look like...


Contrast, how does it work?
 
2012-12-25 12:16:34 PM
Oh good a thread for the whole day of Doctor Who
 
2012-12-25 12:18:46 PM
As long as Rosie O'Donnell isn't involved, intergalactic lesbians are awesome.
 
2012-12-25 12:22:36 PM
Don't like the new opening
 
2012-12-25 12:40:05 PM

xanadian: Uh.

They re-designed the TARDIS!??

:/


Just the inside. It happens. I doubt they'd ever update the outside.
 
2012-12-25 12:53:25 PM

nacker: xanadian: Uh.

They re-designed the TARDIS!??

:/

Just the inside. It happens. I doubt they'd ever update the outside.


Well, technically, the outside has been updated quite a few times. Notably, the sign on the left door has went from white to blue back to white, and the St. John's Ambulance sticker has faded, disappeared, and reappeared.  And the Matt Smith era brought about a TARDIS regeneration, so it looks all shiny and new now.

But, yeah, the same basic police box shape will probably never go away.
 
2012-12-25 12:54:59 PM
The the episode actually run in the UK yet?

Any other Christmas episodes I should be... looking for? Like Top Gear?

/Bebbejeezus
 
2012-12-25 12:58:36 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Well, technically, the outside has been updated quite a few times. Notably, the sign on the left door has went from white to blue back to white, and the St. John's Ambulance sticker has faded, disappeared, and reappeared. And the Matt Smith era brought about a TARDIS regeneration, so it looks all shiny and new now.

But, yeah, the same basic police box shape will probably never go away.


It seems to me they changed the top a lot either when they brought the show back or for Tennant. Maybe it's just the fact that we get a lot of high-angle shots of it now.
 
2012-12-25 12:58:38 PM

Dwight_Yeast: The the episode actually run in the UK yet?


It's currently on. I screwed up on the live tv pause thing though so I have to wait for it to finish before I can properly watch it online.
 
2012-12-25 12:59:01 PM
I'll miss the Ponds but am definitely looking forward to some more Oswin.
 
2012-12-25 01:00:00 PM

Time Traveling Bunnies: I'll miss the Ponds but am definitely looking forward to some more Oswin.


I'll let someone else nit-pick this one.
 
2012-12-25 01:04:31 PM

Dwight_Yeast: The the episode actually run in the UK yet?

Any other Christmas episodes I should be... looking for? Like Top Gear?

/Bebbejeezus


No Top Gear this year. They didn't do a fall series or a Christmas Special this year. I think they come back in another month or two.
 
2012-12-25 01:06:21 PM
People are already biatching about the new title sequence.

/Moffat's overwhelmed as a showrunner
//Snowmen with fans=ridiculous
///not as ridiculous as his timey wimey explanations over the past few episodes
 
2012-12-25 01:06:47 PM
As adorkable Clara/Oswin is, I'll miss Amy Pond's legs. Hope Jenna Louise Coleman continues the tradition.
 
2012-12-25 01:10:24 PM

Dwight_Yeast: FirstNationalBastard: Well, technically, the outside has been updated quite a few times. Notably, the sign on the left door has went from white to blue back to white, and the St. John's Ambulance sticker has faded, disappeared, and reappeared. And the Matt Smith era brought about a TARDIS regeneration, so it looks all shiny and new now.

But, yeah, the same basic police box shape will probably never go away.

It seems to me they changed the top a lot either when they brought the show back or for Tennant. Maybe it's just the fact that we get a lot of high-angle shots of it now.


www.laboiteverte.fr

i576.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-25 01:11:10 PM
Harry Potter meets the Moffat Sherlock Holmes!

Yeah I turned if off. Can't wait for the Moff to turn the show over to Gatiss. Wake me when that happens.
 
2012-12-25 01:14:55 PM
The comments section is deliciously biatchy.
 
2012-12-25 01:20:54 PM

Wittenberg Dropout: Harry Potter meets the Moffat Sherlock Holmes!

Yeah I turned if off. Can't wait for the Moff to turn the show over to Gatiss. Wake me when that happens.


I'm betting he rides out the big 50th anniversary year, and Smith and Moffatt go out with a bang to end season 8/start out season 9.
 
2012-12-25 01:28:47 PM

nacker: Time Traveling Bunnies: I'll miss the Ponds but am definitely looking forward to some more Oswin.

I'll let someone else nit-pick this one.


Same actress, different character. Karen Gillan was in the Pompeii episode before becoming Amy Pond.
 
2012-12-25 01:32:33 PM

rmatthewware: nacker: Time Traveling Bunnies: I'll miss the Ponds but am definitely looking forward to some more Oswin.

I'll let someone else nit-pick this one.

Same actress, different character. Karen Gillan was in the Pompeii episode before becoming Amy Pond.


There's a big difference between... the redhead appearing in a minor role as a background character 2 years before becoming the companion and Ace 2.0 appearing as a major guest star the same season she starts with the show.
 
2012-12-25 01:33:37 PM

rmatthewware: nacker: Time Traveling Bunnies: I'll miss the Ponds but am definitely looking forward to some more Oswin.

I'll let someone else nit-pick this one.

Same actress, different character. Karen Gillan was in the Pompeii episode before becoming Amy Pond.


Oh that's what he's nitpicking? Since everyone's gone out of their way to explain how this situation is different because Moffat intentionally placed Coleman in Asylum after she had been cast as Clara, I think either name is appropriate since the two roles will be connected.
 
2012-12-25 01:34:23 PM

Wittenberg Dropout: Yeah I turned if off. Can't wait for the Moff to turn the show over to Gatiss. Wake me when that happens.


Gatiss is great when he's on, but he's a shiatacular writer when he fails (ie, "The Blind Banker")
 
2012-12-25 01:35:48 PM

Mugato: I don't know anything about Dr. Who but what intergalactic lesbians might look like...

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]

[janefae.files.wordpress.com image 692x530]

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x281]


What is the second photo from?
 
2012-12-25 01:37:36 PM
Which reminds me of a very old Moffatt script:

MASTER: Behold! Once again I have been augmented by superior Dalek technology, rejuvenating my body and granting me more power over the cosmos.

(He pulls open his jacket.)

DOCTOR: And, I notice, breasts.

MASTER (defensive): They're not breasts, OK? They're Dalek bumps. They can detect ion charged emissions and operate as atheric beam locators at a distance of up to 20,000 light years.

(EMMA snickers.)

MASTER (to Emma): They're also extremely firm.

EMMA: What are you trying to say?

MASTER: Oh, nothing.
 
2012-12-25 01:38:17 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: /Moffat's overwhelmed as a showrunner


He's also been working as a Hollywood screenwriter; he wrote Tintin.
 
2012-12-25 01:39:28 PM
And yer video link for the whole thing:

The Curse Of Fatal Death
 
2012-12-25 01:40:26 PM

Wayne 985: Mugato: I don't know anything about Dr. Who but what intergalactic lesbians might look like...

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]

[janefae.files.wordpress.com image 692x530]

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x281]

What is the second photo from?


The final Star Trek: Deep Space Nine mirror universe episode, from season 7.

Mirror Ezri and Intendant Kira had a thing going on, and instead of pussyfooting around like they did with Jadzia, the producers went full fanservice and had two main cast members make out.
 
2012-12-25 01:41:37 PM
And actually, here's a better copy:

The Better Copy Of The Curse of Fatal Death
 
2012-12-25 01:46:04 PM
Watching The Doctor meets The Governor on BBCA now.
 
2012-12-25 01:52:39 PM
I'd like to see the Doctor take on the most horrifying abomination of all: the K-9 spinoff show on SyFy.
 
2012-12-25 02:03:45 PM

silgryphon: Oh good a thread for the whole day of Doctor Who


And this is wrong in, what fashion?
 
2012-12-25 02:21:18 PM
Doc needs some rebound companion.
 
2012-12-25 02:24:11 PM
Spoiler :


Her FULL name is Clara Oswin Oswald...
 
2012-12-25 02:30:25 PM

Mugato: I don't know anything about Dr. Who but what intergalactic lesbians might look like...

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]

[janefae.files.wordpress.com image 692x530]

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x281]


Look at that and say Wars is better than Trek.

NO.
 
2012-12-25 02:38:05 PM
I caught it early and it's AWESOME. Also, I'm really interested in Oswin and what happens with her. My theory is she's a time-splintered Rani who fractured across the timeline to avoid the Time War, but I thought River was the Rani too, so I'm probably wrong. Also, Shrax!

Also, that was the greatest Doctor Who Christmas episode in ages. I've always found them bland or pointless, but this was interesting and really leads into the next season.

Also, Victorian detective lizard gay marriage.
 
2012-12-25 03:04:55 PM
Can't wait! Last year's special is on now.
 
2012-12-25 03:17:57 PM
Look what I got!

lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-12-25 03:22:59 PM
Watch me run!!!!

That was a good bit of fun thanks to expatshield. Can't wait for some more Clara/Oswin!!
 
2012-12-25 03:58:35 PM

Gunny Walker: Here's a spoiler: Rory dies.


"How do you know you'll come back?"

"When have I not?"
 
2012-12-25 03:59:55 PM

enforcerpsu: Look what I got!

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 454x271]


A blank Pennsylvania license plate?
 
2012-12-25 04:12:52 PM
Oh. My. God.

It certainly wasn't the best episode ever, but it was hands down the best Christmas special, and not even in the same league as last year. I loved it so farking much. And I'm genuinely excited for the next season now. If you haven't seen it yet, I envy you for being able to watch it for the first time.
 
2012-12-25 04:18:37 PM

ClintonKun: As adorkable Clara/Oswin is, I'll miss Amy Pond's legs. Hope Jenna Louise Coleman continues the tradition.


Are you kidding me? Yeah Karen Gillan was always wearing skirts but the girl had chopstick legs. Jenna Louise Coleman on the other hand looks to have some meatier legs. Here's hoping she shows them more often.
 
2012-12-25 04:19:16 PM

Bloody William: I caught it early and it's AWESOME. Also, I'm really interested in Oswin and what happens with her. My theory is she's a time-splintered Rani who fractured across the timeline to avoid the Time War, but I thought River was the Rani too, so I'm probably wrong. Also, Shrax!

Also, that was the greatest Doctor Who Christmas episode in ages. I've always found them bland or pointless, but this was interesting and really leads into the next season.

Also, Victorian detective lizard gay marriage.


Last year's, The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe was far from bland. It was a real tear jerker. But this year's was fantastic. Can't wait to see how this unfolds. Interesting Rani concept, we'll see.
 
2012-12-25 04:22:14 PM

Anderson's Pooper: Last year's, The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe was far from bland. It was a real tear jerker. But this year's was fantastic. Can't wait to see how this unfolds. Interesting Rani concept, we'll see.


Two years ago gets points for introducing the phrase "Halfway through the dark."
 
2012-12-25 04:40:09 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: People are already biatching about the new title sequence.

/Moffat's overwhelmed as a showrunner
//Snowmen with fans=ridiculous
///not as ridiculous as his timey wimey explanations over the past few episodes


I absolutely love the new sequence. Nice old-school touch with the portrait of the Doctor appearing.
 
2012-12-25 04:53:58 PM
Will Intergalactic Lesbians, a redesigned TARDIS, and his new companion's lovely Dalek Bumps be enough to cheer him up in Doctor Who: "The Snowmen"?

Nope, it won't be enough to do that. Nor will it be enough to pull out of the ratings dive.
 
2012-12-25 05:10:30 PM
Loved the new title sequence, it was brilliant. Evocative of old school Doctor Who and the era of early video effects while being thoroughly modern. This was my best Christmas present today. Nice twisty story.
 
2012-12-25 05:10:48 PM

Balchinian: Will Intergalactic Lesbians, a redesigned TARDIS, and his new companion's lovely Dalek Bumps be enough to cheer him up in Doctor Who: "The Snowmen"?

Nope, it won't be enough to do that. Nor will it be enough to pull out of the ratings dive.


Not sure about where the BBC ratings are (and you have to consider timeshifting via iPlayer in those total numbers), but BBCA ratings are at a record high, and the show is consistently at the top of the iTunes and Amazon charts. If the show is in decline, it must be in Pete's World or something. It certainly isn't in trouble in our universe,
 
2012-12-25 05:22:40 PM

ClintonKun: As adorkable Clara/Oswin is, I'll miss Amy Pond's legs. Hope Jenna Louise Coleman continues the tradition.

Sorry, no legs in this episode. It's all bustle and what not.
Also, I think the new sequence is pretty dang cool.
Like a bow tie.
 
2012-12-25 05:25:02 PM
Another callback to classic Who:

The Great Intelligence was the villain in the Patrick Troughton story "The Web of Fear"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/weboffear/detail .s html

Oh yeah, the new voice of the Great Intelligence is Ian McKellen
 
2012-12-25 05:51:46 PM

rmatthewware: Same actress, different character.


I know something you don't!
 
2012-12-25 06:08:43 PM

enforcerpsu: Look what I got!

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 454x271]


A license plate made from psychic paper?

Seriously. Unless some of the BritFarkers want to drop some spoilers, we still don't know if Oswin and Clara have any sort of relationship (and spare me the inevitable suggestion of Jenna-Louise Coleman making out with herself since Oswin was bi-curious). For all we know, there may be something. Conversely, Moffat could just be f--king with us, and dropped the lovely Ms. Coleman in "Asylum of the Daleks" as a red herring.  Meanwhile, here she is doing her best impression of Myleene Klass:

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-25 06:16:25 PM

dramatools: Seriously. Unless some of the BritFarkers want to drop some spoilers, we still don't know if Oswin and Clara have any sort of relationship (and spare me the inevitable suggestion of Jenna-Louise Coleman making out with herself since Oswin was bi-curious). For all we know, there may be something. Conversely, Moffat could just be f--king with us, and dropped the lovely Ms. Coleman in "Asylum of the Daleks" as a red herring.  Meanwhile, here she is doing her best impression of Myleene Klass:


I'll spoiler the fark out of it as an Amerifarker who torrents and watched it a few hours ago. Whatever you think, it's not what you think. Or what I thought prior to the episode airing. You'll be intrigued. And it could be awesome.
 
2012-12-25 06:32:06 PM
What VTGremlin said. It hints and hints, while feeding you crumbs, then surprises you at the end.
 
2012-12-25 06:46:35 PM

superbeerchan: Oh yeah, the new voice of the Great Intelligence is Ian McKellen


I sound like Ian McKellen now. Ian McKellen is cool.

Interesting that Tardis.Wikia has already decided that it's definitely the same Great Intelligence. It's likely, but not a given. The show is general shy about bringing back obscure villains, although some robot yeti would be pretty badass.

Pity they don't have Nicholas Courtney to give them the old what-for.
 
2012-12-25 07:01:17 PM
2 hours!!
 
2012-12-25 07:03:51 PM

dramatools: enforcerpsu: Look what I got!

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 454x271]

A license plate made from psychic paper?

Seriously. Unless some of the BritFarkers want to drop some spoilers, we still don't know if Oswin and Clara have any sort of relationship (and spare me the inevitable suggestion of Jenna-Louise Coleman making out with herself since Oswin was bi-curious). For all we know, there may be something. Conversely, Moffat could just be f--king with us, and dropped the lovely Ms. Coleman in "Asylum of the Daleks" as a red herring.  Meanwhile, here she is doing her best impression of Myleene Klass:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 267x400]


And here's some work she did before Doctor Who

NSFW
 
2012-12-25 07:06:36 PM
It's cooler.
 
2012-12-25 07:07:03 PM

VTGremlin: I'll spoiler the fark out of it as an Amerifarker who torrents and watched it a few hours ago. Whatever you think, it's not what you think. Or what I thought prior to the episode airing. You'll be intrigued. And it could be awesome.


Right, you'll think you have it partway through, then at the end, you'll know nothing.
 
2012-12-25 07:07:54 PM
Also: Hooray! They brought the face back!
 
2012-12-25 07:15:28 PM

sirbissel: Also: Hooray! They brought the face back!


That made me so happy that I rewound it to watch again.
 
2012-12-25 07:18:21 PM

sirbissel: Also: Hooray! They brought the face back!


I missed the face. Where was it?
 
2012-12-25 07:22:53 PM
My friend who is a huge Doctor Who fan, or so he says; refuses to watch the new Christmas special. The reason being is because he thinks the Doctor is a whiny emo biatch. He really thinks the 11th Doctor is emo, and that last two Christmas specials he has been whiny, and full of emo. I don't get how, because the 10th  Doctor became really whiny and emo during the end of his run.
 
2012-12-25 07:23:19 PM

sirbissel: Also: Hooray! They brought the face back!


Wait, the face in the opening scene. Sorry. I thought you meant The Face Of Boe. I'm an idiot.
 
2012-12-25 07:32:49 PM

Mad_Radhu: Nope, it won't be enough to do that. Nor will it be enough to pull out of the ratings dive.

Not sure about where the BBC ratings are (and you have to consider timeshifting via iPlayer in those total numbers), but BBCA ratings are at a record high, and the show is consistently at the top of the iTunes and Amazon charts. If the show is in decline, it must be in Pete's World or something. It certainly isn't in trouble in our universe,


Balchinian is a troll. A truly sad troll who enjoys trolling Doctor Who threads. Ignore him, which is all he deserves.

/Entertainment tab trolls are sad sad people.
 
2012-12-25 07:34:26 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Mad_Radhu: Nope, it won't be enough to do that. Nor will it be enough to pull out of the ratings dive.

Not sure about where the BBC ratings are (and you have to consider timeshifting via iPlayer in those total numbers), but BBCA ratings are at a record high, and the show is consistently at the top of the iTunes and Amazon charts. If the show is in decline, it must be in Pete's World or something. It certainly isn't in trouble in our universe,

Balchinian is a troll. A truly sad troll who enjoys trolling Doctor Who threads. Ignore him, which is all he deserves.

/Entertainment tab trolls are sad sad people.


If that's what Entertainment tab trolls are like, I don't think I want to venture into the politics tab
 
2012-12-25 07:37:00 PM
"Those were the days" will make you sad unless you're a robot.
 
2012-12-25 07:38:49 PM
"Do you have a goldfish named Colin? No. I thought not!"
 
2012-12-25 07:39:07 PM

t3knomanser: superbeerchan: Oh yeah, the new voice of the Great Intelligence is Ian McKellen

Interesting that Tardis.Wikia has already decided that it's definitely the same Great Intelligence. It's likely, but not a given. The show is general shy about bringing back obscure villains, although some robot yeti would be pretty badass.



The fact that the Doctor had his 1967 London Underground map and talked about its strategic importance pretty strongly implies that it is the same Great Intelligence. Also, what's another name by which a Yeti is known? That's right, an "abominable snowman".

New on-going characters tend to get introduced in Great Intelligence stories: Victoria Waterfield in The Abominable Snowmen, Colonel Lethbridge-Stewart & Cpl. Benton (although not named yet) in The Web of Fear, Kate Lethbridge-Stewart in Downtime, and now Clara (by that name) in "The Snowmen".
Also remember who was introduced the last time we saw the Great Intelligence: Kate Lethbridge-Stewart.
 
2012-12-25 07:41:11 PM
^ sorry; editing screw-up.
 
2012-12-25 07:46:08 PM

Woolwine: If that's what Entertainment tab trolls are like, I don't think I want to venture into the politics tab


I recommend grenades.
 
2012-12-25 07:47:03 PM

sirbissel: Also: Hooray! They brought the face back!


Only appropriate then that Grant should guest star, since his cartoon visage was the last Doctoral face to be used in the opening credits.

If you want to stick with actors' own faces, maybe the umbrella was included as a reference to McCoy (along with Clara being basically Ace with a dash of Jack's imortality and bisexuality thrown in for good measure).
 
2012-12-25 08:00:18 PM
Ooops, sorry. I screwed up. Victoria wasn't introduced in The Abominable Snowmen. I think I mixed that up because of Deborah Watling's father playing Prof. Travers.
 
2012-12-25 08:07:59 PM

Woolwine: If that's what Entertainment tab trolls are like, I don't think I want to venture into the politics tab


It's Darwinian selection: trolls who can't make it in the Politics tab move to Business (which is where the truly insane here post) or Geek tabs. If they can't make it there, they end up trolling the Entertainment tab, and by that point, they seem to specialize, only trolling one easy type of thread: ie, Doctor Who or Firefly.

They are the bottom-feeders of this website, the lowest of the low.
 
2012-12-25 08:10:34 PM
I liked it. Some parts were a little hit or miss...(I think they relied on the Strax as comedic relief well a bit too much) But it does set up the coming series nicely...
 
2012-12-25 08:18:57 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: ClintonKun: As adorkable Clara/Oswin is, I'll miss Amy Pond's legs. Hope Jenna Louise Coleman continues the tradition.

Are you kidding me? Yeah Karen Gillan was always wearing skirts but the girl had chopstick legs. Jenna Louise Coleman on the other hand looks to have some meatier legs. Here's hoping she shows them more often.


i2.listal.com

And one more not showing legs, just because.

i2.listal.com
 
2012-12-25 08:20:46 PM

Balchinian: Will Intergalactic Lesbians, a redesigned TARDIS, and his new companion's lovely Dalek Bumps be enough to cheer him up in Doctor Who: "The Snowmen"?

Nope, it won't be enough to do that. Nor will it be enough to pull out of the ratings dive.


You should work in retail. That show has never been bigger stateside.
 
2012-12-25 08:33:41 PM

Gunny Walker: VTGremlin: I'll spoiler the fark out of it as an Amerifarker who torrents and watched it a few hours ago. Whatever you think, it's not what you think. Or what I thought prior to the episode airing. You'll be intrigued. And it could be awesome.

Right, you'll think you have it partway through, then at the end, you'll know nothing.


Yeah pretty much what I was thinking when I saw it. At first when she said her name and also mentioned souffles I was all "Aha!" then later I went all "WTF?"
 
2012-12-25 08:35:29 PM
Meanwhile Syfy is having a marathon of K-9.
 
2012-12-25 08:35:58 PM
I was going to look at this, then I remembered that Dr. Who sucks.
 
2012-12-25 08:44:41 PM
i166.photobucket.com

Did someone say "Intergalactic Lesbians"?
 
2012-12-25 08:46:29 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: Gunny Walker: VTGremlin: I'll spoiler the fark out of it as an Amerifarker who torrents and watched it a few hours ago. Whatever you think, it's not what you think. Or what I thought prior to the episode airing. You'll be intrigued. And it could be awesome.

Right, you'll think you have it partway through, then at the end, you'll know nothing.

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking when I saw it. At first when she said her name and also mentioned souffles I was all "Aha!" then later I went all "WTF?"


I just hope they don't make them have any sort of romantic thing...
 
2012-12-25 08:50:18 PM

flamingboar: Meanwhile Syfy is having a marathon of K-9.


I watched it via a torrent last year. Ugh. Horrible. The only highlight was the time-travel in "The Cambridge Spy" -- to 23 November 1963.

Only the girl was transported, not K-9; otherwise, they'd have to come up with a reason why K-9's myriad sensors didn't notice the infestation of Daleks at the Coal Hill School, the Hand of Omega at the cemetery, nor the TARDIS' energy waves emanating from the Foreman junk yard. The setting did go into the evening, but there wasn't a television to be turned off just when the announcer said, "This is BBC television. The time is quarter past five and Saturday viewing continues with an adventure in the new science fiction series Do..."
By the way, speaking of that date, it was cute having Clara Oswin Oswald born 94 years to the day before Lee Harvey Oswald died.
 
2012-12-25 08:51:36 PM

UnderwaterAlly: I was going to look at this, then I remembered that Dr. Who sucks.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-25 08:55:49 PM

Woolwine: NSFW


Real and spectacular. That's certainly something to check the ol' sonic screwdriver with before tonight's episode.
 
2012-12-25 08:56:51 PM

sirbissel: I just hope they don't make them have any sort of romantic thing...


Too late.

/Liked the red dress
 
2012-12-25 08:57:32 PM

sirbissel: Dingleberry Dickwad: Gunny Walker: VTGremlin: I'll spoiler the fark out of it as an Amerifarker who torrents and watched it a few hours ago. Whatever you think, it's not what you think. Or what I thought prior to the episode airing. You'll be intrigued. And it could be awesome.

Right, you'll think you have it partway through, then at the end, you'll know nothing.

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking when I saw it. At first when she said her name and also mentioned souffles I was all "Aha!" then later I went all "WTF?"

I just hope they don't make them have any sort of romantic thing...


I think until his next regeneration, he'll stay monogamous for River. Despite time-travel effectively negating widowhood and divorce, I get the impression that regeneration breaks the marriage contract. The First Doctor presumably had a wife, as it would not have been acceptable to the BBC or viewing public in 1963 for Susan to have been the product of illegitimacy, even though Hartnell himself was a bastard in real life. The Tenth Doctor married and abandoned Liz One. The Eleventh Doctor married River.
 
2012-12-25 09:05:14 PM

HopScotchNSoda: sirbissel: Dingleberry Dickwad: Gunny Walker: VTGremlin: I'll spoiler the fark out of it as an Amerifarker who torrents and watched it a few hours ago. Whatever you think, it's not what you think. Or what I thought prior to the episode airing. You'll be intrigued. And it could be awesome.

Right, you'll think you have it partway through, then at the end, you'll know nothing.

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking when I saw it. At first when she said her name and also mentioned souffles I was all "Aha!" then later I went all "WTF?"

I just hope they don't make them have any sort of romantic thing...

I think until his next regeneration, he'll stay monogamous for River. Despite time-travel effectively negating widowhood and divorce, I get the impression that regeneration breaks the marriage contract. The First Doctor presumably had a wife, as it would not have been acceptable to the BBC or viewing public in 1963 for Susan to have been the product of illegitimacy, even though Hartnell himself was a bastard in real life. The Tenth Doctor married and abandoned Liz One. The Eleventh Doctor married River.


Does the 11th Doctor even get it on with River? I know they are married, but I thought married her because she loved him a lot, and that he would feel guilty about what she sacrifices her life for him.
 
2012-12-25 09:10:32 PM
I will say this about the Christmas special. While I certainly enjoyed it, the signs seem to be there for another "most special person in the universe" type companion that wants to jump the Doctor's bones, which I really don't want again. I mean the special was fun and touching, but given the way she kissed the Doctor and the whole mystery surrounding her and what you see at the end of the episode, it all points down to "super special girl" type stuff.
 
2012-12-25 09:11:46 PM

DerAppie: sirbissel: I just hope they don't make them have any sort of romantic thing...

Too late.

/Liked the red dress


I know there was the thing in this episode, but I'm hoping maybe that won't carry over into the next few episodes (or however long this goes for)
 
2012-12-25 09:15:08 PM

demonfaerie: HopScotchNSoda: sirbissel: Dingleberry Dickwad: Gunny Walker: VTGremlin: I'll spoiler the fark out of it as an Amerifarker who torrents and watched it a few hours ago. Whatever you think, it's not what you think. Or what I thought prior to the episode airing. You'll be intrigued. And it could be awesome.

Right, you'll think you have it partway through, then at the end, you'll know nothing.

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking when I saw it. At first when she said her name and also mentioned souffles I was all "Aha!" then later I went all "WTF?"

I just hope they don't make them have any sort of romantic thing...

I think until his next regeneration, he'll stay monogamous for River. Despite time-travel effectively negating widowhood and divorce, I get the impression that regeneration breaks the marriage contract. The First Doctor presumably had a wife, as it would not have been acceptable to the BBC or viewing public in 1963 for Susan to have been the product of illegitimacy, even though Hartnell himself was a bastard in real life. The Tenth Doctor married and abandoned Liz One. The Eleventh Doctor married River.

Does the 11th Doctor even get it on with River? I know they are married, but I thought married her because she loved him a lot, and that he would feel guilty about what she sacrifices her life for him.


I'm going to guess yes. My memory could be fading, but I could swear River has hinted to it before, but it's always an offscreen type deal.
 
2012-12-25 09:15:45 PM
It's on! Pretty awesome so far
 
2012-12-25 09:16:54 PM

dramatools: enforcerpsu: Look what I got!

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 454x271]

A license plate made from psychic paper?

Seriously. Unless some of the BritFarkers want to drop some spoilers, we still don't know if Oswin and Clara have any sort of relationship (and spare me the inevitable suggestion of Jenna-Louise Coleman making out with herself since Oswin was bi-curious). For all we know, there may be something. Conversely, Moffat could just be f--king with us, and dropped the lovely Ms. Coleman in "Asylum of the Daleks" as a red herring.  Meanwhile, here she is doing her best impression of Myleene Klass:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 267x400]


Mmmmm yummmy.

KawaiiNot: It's on! Pretty awesome so far


This. The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.
 
2012-12-25 09:19:55 PM

Rwa2play: This. The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.


I actually like the new theme music. Sounds like a bit of a throwback to some of the theme music.
 
2012-12-25 09:23:31 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: Rwa2play: This. The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.

I actually like the new theme music. Sounds like a bit of a throwback to some of the theme music.


Yeah, my bad. Still have the bitter taste of the last theme in my mouth; this one's a little minimalistic.

As for the graphics: taking it back to the second doctor's opening credits and to that of the opening credits for McCoy's Doctor. NIIIIIIIICE.
 
2012-12-25 09:32:43 PM
I'm sorry but...this episode's turning out to be all sorts of...

...
...
...

bakerthebrand.com
 
2012-12-25 09:33:04 PM
Pond?!?
 
2012-12-25 09:34:53 PM
So Sherlock was based on a lizard lesbian with a sword!?
 
2012-12-25 09:35:41 PM

flamingboar: So Sherlock was based on a lizard lesbian with a sword!?


Yes, that's one of the worst kept literary secrets.
 
2012-12-25 09:35:50 PM

flamingboar: So Sherlock was based on a lizard lesbian with a sword!?


Hey now, a badass lesbian at that.
 
2012-12-25 09:35:55 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: demonfaerie: HopScotchNSoda: sirbissel: Dingleberry Dickwad: Gunny Walker: VTGremlin: I'll spoiler the fark out of it as an Amerifarker who torrents and watched it a few hours ago. Whatever you think, it's not what you think. Or what I thought prior to the episode airing. You'll be intrigued. And it could be awesome.

Right, you'll think you have it partway through, then at the end, you'll know nothing.

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking when I saw it. At first when she said her name and also mentioned souffles I was all "Aha!" then later I went all "WTF?"

I just hope they don't make them have any sort of romantic thing...

I think until his next regeneration, he'll stay monogamous for River. Despite time-travel effectively negating widowhood and divorce, I get the impression that regeneration breaks the marriage contract. The First Doctor presumably had a wife, as it would not have been acceptable to the BBC or viewing public in 1963 for Susan to have been the product of illegitimacy, even though Hartnell himself was a bastard in real life. The Tenth Doctor married and abandoned Liz One. The Eleventh Doctor married River.

Does the 11th Doctor even get it on with River? I know they are married, but I thought married her because she loved him a lot, and that he would feel guilty about what she sacrifices her life for him.

I'm going to guess yes. My memory could be fading, but I could swear River has hinted to it before, but it's always an offscreen type deal.



Yes, he stated as much to Dorium at the end of "The Wedding of River Song" in response to his comment that River would spend the rest of her days in prison. "Her days, yes. Her nights -- well, that's between us," or something like that. It was also implied in "First Night" when the Doctor assured her that her parents were asleep. Besides, do you really think that River would put up with a monogamous marriage? Every impression she's given is that she has an even higher libido than her mother.
 
2012-12-25 09:37:26 PM
I was worried this one wouldn't hold my interest. But it has.
 
2012-12-25 09:38:31 PM
nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-25 09:45:39 PM
" I'm the clever one, and your the potato one!" Is the best line ever uttered in human history.
 
2012-12-25 09:48:17 PM

flamingboar: " I'm the clever one, and your the potato one!" Is the best line ever uttered in human history.


"She said you might need grenades."

"She might have said 'help'."
 
2012-12-25 09:57:46 PM
This is the most times I've been secondhand quoted in the history of my life. It totally makes up for Christmas being the worst day of the year. I truly hope every single person here enjoys the special.
 
2012-12-25 09:58:29 PM
Anyone else getting a Mary Poppins vibe from this?
 
2012-12-25 10:03:05 PM
Ok, that was probably the best Christmas special I can remember.
 
2012-12-25 10:03:47 PM

flamingboar: " I'm the clever one, and your the potato one!" Is the best line ever uttered in human history.


I demand Sontaran potato meme Photoshops!
 
2012-12-25 10:12:45 PM
OK, I expect to see Souffle Girl running in every episode.
 
2012-12-25 10:13:29 PM
I demand more Vastra, Jenny, and Strax.
 
2012-12-25 10:14:44 PM

texdent: Anyone else getting a Mary Poppins vibe from this?


I just watched Hogfather for the first time a couple weeks ago, so that's where my mind went first.
 
2012-12-25 10:18:23 PM

Dwight_Yeast: flamingboar: " I'm the clever one, and your the potato one!" Is the best line ever uttered in human history.

I demand Sontaran potato meme Photoshops!



I think you mean, "I demand Sontaran potato meme Photoshops, human scum!"
 
2012-12-25 10:20:01 PM
*scratches head* So she gets reincarnated? Cloned? The universe retcons her?
 
2012-12-25 10:20:45 PM
new control room but no new doctor?

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-25 10:20:49 PM

irving47: Dwight_Yeast: flamingboar: " I'm the clever one, and your the potato one!" Is the best line ever uttered in human history.

I demand Sontaran potato meme Photoshops!


I think you mean, "I demand Sontaran potato meme Photoshops, human scum!"


I can count to Rutan!
 
2012-12-25 10:20:49 PM
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....

So this half-season is "Who is really Clara Owsin Oswald?"

Hmmmmmm....this is good. I think I'm gonna enjoy this mystery.
 
2012-12-25 10:21:04 PM
Okay, that was a great holiday special.
 
2012-12-25 10:22:33 PM

RevMercutio: I demand more Vastra, Jenny, and Strax.


So much this.

WE WANT MOAR VASTRA, JENNY AND STRAX!
 
2012-12-25 10:24:25 PM
interesting ending, anoyher Moffit tie into future episodes.

Saved for my next day off, when I can fully comprehend the littlehints left behind. I like the potato reference. Agreed therre should be a photoshop.
 
2012-12-25 10:24:42 PM

texdent: *scratches head* So she gets reincarnated? Cloned? The universe retcons her?


Ahhh...but there would be no mystery if it were spoiled early.
 
2012-12-25 10:28:40 PM
I demand Sontaran potato meme Photoshops!


I think you mean, "I demand Sontaran potato meme Photoshops, human scum!"
 
2012-12-25 10:30:16 PM

Rwa2play: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....

So this half-season is "Who is really Clara Owsin Oswald?"

Hmmmmmm....this is good. I think I'm gonna enjoy this mystery.


Does this mean the Doctor meets a new Clara every episode? It should be called "Fifty First Dates 2: Doctor Who?
 
2012-12-25 10:30:46 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Dingleberry Dickwad: demonfaerie: HopScotchNSoda: sirbissel: Dingleberry Dickwad: Gunny Walker: VTGremlin: I'll spoiler the fark out of it as an Amerifarker who torrents and watched it a few hours ago. Whatever you think, it's not what you think. Or what I thought prior to the episode airing. You'll be intrigued. And it could be awesome.

Right, you'll think you have it partway through, then at the end, you'll know nothing.

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking when I saw it. At first when she said her name and also mentioned souffles I was all "Aha!" then later I went all "WTF?"

I just hope they don't make them have any sort of romantic thing...

I think until his next regeneration, he'll stay monogamous for River. Despite time-travel effectively negating widowhood and divorce, I get the impression that regeneration breaks the marriage contract. The First Doctor presumably had a wife, as it would not have been acceptable to the BBC or viewing public in 1963 for Susan to have been the product of illegitimacy, even though Hartnell himself was a bastard in real life. The Tenth Doctor married and abandoned Liz One. The Eleventh Doctor married River.

Does the 11th Doctor even get it on with River? I know they are married, but I thought married her because she loved him a lot, and that he would feel guilty about what she sacrifices her life for him.

I'm going to guess yes. My memory could be fading, but I could swear River has hinted to it before, but it's always an offscreen type deal.


Yes, he stated as much to Dorium at the end of "The Wedding of River Song" in response to his comment that River would spend the rest of her days in prison. "Her days, yes. Her nights -- well, that's between us," or something like that. It was also implied in "First Night" when the Doctor assured her that her parents were asleep. Besides, do you really think that River would put up with a monogamous marriage? Every impression she's given is that she has an even higher libido than he ...


Isn't there a "I'm quite the screamer....there's a spoiler for you" from the one season opener?

Also, why is there not a STRAX based I can count to potato picture?
 
2012-12-25 10:32:07 PM

diaphoresis: new control room but no new doctor?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]


The new control room was because they moved studios where the show is made and decided to build a new design rather than try to move/rebuild the old one. And the old one was only introduced because with 11 they started making DW in HD and needed a HD set so had to trash Ten's.
 
2012-12-25 10:37:57 PM

flamingboar: So Sherlock was based on a lizard lesbian with a sword!?


And Hugh Laurie's House nailed it perfectly.
 
2012-12-25 10:39:15 PM
I quite liked it! It was definitely the best Christmas episode by far, they're usually entertaining but that one was actually really enjoyable as well.

"Takes one to snow one" had the corny man in me dying of laughter :P
 
2012-12-25 10:39:16 PM

flamingboar: " I'm the clever one, and your the potato one!" Is the best line ever uttered in human history.


Hmmm, not to nit pick, but human?
 
2012-12-25 10:44:59 PM

irving47: I demand Sontaran potato meme Photoshops!


I think you mean, "I demand Sontaran potato meme Photoshops, human scum!"


"I can count to Strax, human scum! Then the grenade will obliterate you!"

/Clara-Oswald is the new Kenny?
//wtf was that cold sore on Jenny??
 
2012-12-25 10:45:51 PM

Rwa2play: The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.

That's another revived element of the original series. Matt Smith is the first Doctor to appear in the main titles since McCoy. It was a signature element, except during the Colin Baker era when Six looked entirely too smarmy.

I'm not going to go into the Clara/Oswin thing, except that Moffat is going to have a lot of fun with us over Season 7's back nine. Ok, maybe one part. It is unusual that the Doctor is now chasing the girl.
 
2012-12-25 10:50:34 PM
Someone is attempting to break Rory's record of most deaths by a companion?

Inconceivable!
 
2012-12-25 10:51:22 PM
We all thought that Clara was going to be replacing Amy, but it looks like she's really the new Rory.
 
2012-12-25 11:01:57 PM

Mad_Radhu: We all thought that Clara was going to be replacing Amy, but it looks like she's really the new Rory.


I'm okay with this.
 
2012-12-25 11:13:41 PM

Funbags: [i166.photobucket.com image 700x564]

Did someone say "Intergalactic Lesbians"?


Tegan was too hard-boiled to stick to one end of the spectrum.

/She knocked Adric out for fark's sake. I don't care if that's not accounting for much.
 
2012-12-25 11:14:58 PM

dramatools: Rwa2play: The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.
That's another revived element of the original series. Matt Smith is the first Doctor to appear in the main titles since McCoy.


Unless you count 2003's "Scream of the Shalka", starring Richard E. Grant as the original Ninth Doctor. His cartoon face was shown in the opening sequence, even though the practice had not been used for McCoy or McGann in 1996.
"Scream of the Shalka" had been produced by the Beeb as canon, but was then de-canonised by Davies who - understandably - didn't want an animated Doctor included in the mix with the live-action actors.
 
2012-12-25 11:15:53 PM
I generally liked it, but I found the ending a little underwhelming. I am however interested in Clara's angle. Me likey Clara, but I was really hoping she would be a Victorian era companion instead of modern day. Oh well.

I also liked the face in the credits and the new TARDIS interior. Makes me curious if Moff's making some old school touches to prepare newer viewers for older Doctors.
 
2012-12-25 11:22:37 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Unless you count 2003's "Scream of the Shalka", starring Richard E. Grant [...]


Good catch. Obviously Grant's appearance in this episode wasn't lost on you. There's also a suggestion of the Shalka Doctor when Eleven pours himself a shot of whiskey (though we don't actually see him imbibe).
 
2012-12-25 11:37:36 PM
Amazingly awesome episode. Seriously thought the Intelligence's voice was Professor X, not Magneto.
 
2012-12-25 11:46:26 PM
Very enjoyable episode. The whole snowman as the threat was pretty weak but everything else about the episode was great. I like the subtle tie in with the ponds, Clara's curiosity, and future mystery about who she is. Looks to be a good second half of the season although pretty confusing based on how this character is going to tie in. I hope they don't completely ignore the whole Silence aspect and the first question fate of the doctor.
 
2012-12-25 11:48:38 PM

Pawn takes the King: Amazingly awesome episode. Seriously thought the Intelligence's voice was Professor X, not Magneto.


You're thinking of the wrong wizard. Saruman, not Gandalf.
 
2012-12-25 11:48:53 PM

Lord Binky: I also liked the face in the credits and the new TARDIS interior. Makes me curious if Moff's making some old school touches to prepare newer viewers for older Doctors.


The new interior (aside from being awesome) has a really important feature: the spinning discs above the console are covered in round forms which have previously been identified as Gallifreian glyphs, which helps bring the interior back into line with Galifrey technology.
 
2012-12-25 11:54:46 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Lord Binky: I also liked the face in the credits and the new TARDIS interior. Makes me curious if Moff's making some old school touches to prepare newer viewers for older Doctors.

The new interior (aside from being awesome) has a really important feature: the spinning discs above the console are covered in round forms which have previously been identified as Gallifreian glyphs, which helps bring the interior back into line with Galifrey technology.


The Tardis since 2005 has always had the round forms. They were usually just hidden or blended into the background. Even during this episode I didn't really see any prominent Gallifreyan parts of the Tardis. The new Tardis looks a lot closer to the copied Tardis the Doctor found in "The Lodger" which seems to be implied that the Silence came up with it. Makes for an interesting foreshawdow.
 
2012-12-25 11:56:18 PM

Flint Ironstag: diaphoresis: new control room but no new doctor?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]

The new control room was because they moved studios where the show is made and decided to build a new design rather than try to move/rebuild the old one. And the old one was only introduced because with 11 they started making DW in HD and needed a HD set so had to trash Ten's.


In-story it works well too, because the old control room would remind him of the Ponds. Perfect excuse for changing the desktop theme.
 
2012-12-26 12:00:13 AM

Pawn takes the King: Amazingly awesome episode. Seriously thought the Intelligence's voice was Professor X, not Magneto.


according to the credits it was Magneto.
 
2012-12-26 12:12:02 AM
Ah, so that's how they're renewing the credits face still. Awesome version. And it's obvious that... *spoilers*

the Ice Warriors are the subject of the winter hint. Unless it's Abomindable Snowmen.
 
2012-12-26 12:33:59 AM

Wasn't Looking at his Neck: Ah, so that's how they're renewing the credits face still. Awesome version. And it's obvious that... *spoilers*
the Ice Warriors are the subject of the winter hint. Unless it's Abomindable Snowmen.


For whom do you think the abominable snowmen / Yetis worked? The Great Intelligence. See The Abominable Snowmen, The Web of Fear, and Downtime. At some point between 1892 and 1935, the Great Intelligence developed the chrome sphere things to control its creatures.
 
2012-12-26 12:48:47 AM

dramatools: HopScotchNSoda: Unless you count 2003's "Scream of the Shalka", starring Richard E. Grant [...]

Good catch. Obviously Grant's appearance in this episode wasn't lost on you. There's also a suggestion of the Shalka Doctor when Eleven pours himself a shot of whiskey (though we don't actually see him imbibe).



Not to mention that Clara and Allison are the only companions who were barmaids (although Ace was a waitress).
 
2012-12-26 12:53:17 AM

Mad_Radhu: In-story it works well too, because the old control room would remind him of the Ponds. Perfect excuse for changing the desktop theme.


Then again, the TARDIS is female. While the Doctor became dour and surly after losing the Ponds, she may have tried to forget by giving herself a makeover. I like the new, cozier console room. And, perchance, if the Doctor gets nostalgic, he still have all the previous ones stashed away.

Now for a companion connection not yet made... Clara will likely be the sexiest companion since Peri. In her barmaid garb, Jenna-Louise Coleman asserted she had the best breasts on the show since Nicola Bryant.
 
2012-12-26 12:55:45 AM

dramatools: Rwa2play: The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.
That's another revived element of the original series. Matt Smith is the first Doctor to appear in the main titles since McCoy. It was a signature element, except during the Colin Baker era when Six looked entirely too smarmy.

I'm not going to go into the Clara/Oswin thing, except that Moffat is going to have a lot of fun with us over Season 7's back nine. Ok, maybe one part. It is unusual that the Doctor is now chasing the girl.


That's a first for the new Doctor Who, but so was "It's smaller on the outside." Now how the hell did nobody ever have somebody say that before?
 
2012-12-26 01:16:24 AM

47 is the new 42: dramatools: Rwa2play: The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.
That's another revived element of the original series. Matt Smith is the first Doctor to appear in the main titles since McCoy. It was a signature element, except during the Colin Baker era when Six looked entirely too smarmy.

I'm not going to go into the Clara/Oswin thing, except that Moffat is going to have a lot of fun with us over Season 7's back nine. Ok, maybe one part. It is unusual that the Doctor is now chasing the girl.

That's a first for the new Doctor Who, but so was "It's smaller on the outside." Now how the hell did nobody ever have somebody say that before?


Because we're used to thinking of it as a telephone box with a big inside, instead of a spaceship with a small outside.
 
2012-12-26 01:18:37 AM
Wow! The Great Intelligence. One of the last of the classic who villains that has never re-appeared, until now. I always thought Lincoln and Haisman would never allow its re-use -- they had a falling out with the DW producers and refused to come back and write a third, concluding Great Intelligence story (which also would have seen the departure of Jamie). I know Haisman died in 2010, but Lincoln's still alive.

I wonder if they'll keep Ian McKellan for its voice in the (certain) future episodes.
 
2012-12-26 01:30:01 AM

Mad_Radhu: Pawn takes the King: Amazingly awesome episode. Seriously thought the Intelligence's voice was Professor X, not Magneto.

You're thinking of the wrong wizard. Saruman, not Gandalf.


Never mind, I'm an idiot. In my defense,the voice sounded very Christopher Lee.
 
2012-12-26 01:42:27 AM

Metaluna Mutant: Wow! The Great Intelligence. One of the last of the classic who villains that has never re-appeared, until now. I always thought Lincoln and Haisman would never allow its re-use -- they had a falling out with the DW producers and refused to come back and write a third, concluding Great Intelligence story (which also would have seen the departure of Jamie). I know Haisman died in 2010, but Lincoln's still alive.

I wonder if they'll keep Ian McKellan for its voice in the (certain) future episodes.


Reading the Doctor Who wikis, it seems that at some point the Great Intelligence was established as being Yog-Sothoth. Did this happen in the Troughton stories, or was this in other, more dubiously canon stories? If it was the former, a Great Old God type entity would be a good antagonist for the 50th anniversary.
 
2012-12-26 01:44:29 AM

NeoCortex42: Mad_Radhu: We all thought that Clara was going to be replacing Amy, but it looks like she's really the new Rory.

I'm okay with this.


Me too. Amy is was ok eye candy but Rory was actually an interesting character. Other than Jack Harkness, there haven't been many non-Doctor males in the modern series that weren't total boobs.
 
2012-12-26 01:44:34 AM
Poor Clara. She's the test page for the galactic printer. Every time something goes wrong and they have to reboot there's another Clara.

It makes you wonder if she's related to Rory somehow.
 
2012-12-26 01:58:41 AM
Well, I liked it, for the most part.  It took a while to grow on me - but I always feel a little 'not the intended audience' at the Christmas specials... Being Australian, it's a bit hard to get sucked into the snow-jingle-bells-cold-dark-night-out-warm-roaring-fire-inside aspect of Christmas stories when it's 35degC out with 90% humidity!

I like the call-backs - the face in the titles, the return (or clarification anyway) of the bass line in the theme, the G.I., the umbrella, and Clara is giving me some strong Ace vibes... not only her disjointed past/future but also in the preview of the coming season there's clearly a shot that mimics the Doctor and Ace leaning out of the TARDIS (my googlefu has failed me, I was going to include the shot here).  The Seventh Doctor was my doctor though, so if any of the references actually are for the McCoy era, I'm going to like their appearance without question.

The comedic moments with Strax were cool, and clearly Moffat listened to the fans who where calling for the lovely Lady Vastra and Janny to make a return - by the looks of things they will be around at least one more time in the back half of the season.

Clearly we're building up to something big for the the 50th Anniversary.  Hopefully the show won't swallow it's own tail with all the back references and history and twists and turns - in anyone else's hands (*cough*RTD*cough*) I'd probably be worried, but if anyone can cope with this, it's Moffat, so I'm willing to sit back and enjoy the ride.

/Also: Yay, for Grant's on-screen performance in the show at last; and Ian McKellen is in there too!
//Zombie Richard E Grant was unintentionally funny though?
///Russell T Davies, bless his socks for bringing the show back and making it what it is... but he would so make a habit of writing himself into corners all the time and deus ex machina-ing his way out...
 
2012-12-26 02:05:00 AM
With the return of the Great Intelligence, I wonder if this foretells of the return of the Great Old Ones. The last time they showed up (Fenric/Hastur and The Gods of Ragnarok), the series was also heavily making questions about who the Doctor really is.

Wild Implausible Theory time: Clara is a renegade Great Old One who divided herself into multiple eras. This is why she was able to (temporarily) defeat the Great Intelligence. She was also the first one to ask "Doctor Who?" in the history of the universe because she first came into this reality when the universe was born (on the fields of Trenzalore?), and the Doctor traveled back to that point maybe in the 50th Anniversary episode, introducing himself to her, thus making "Doctor Who?" the oldest question in the universe, but it must never be answered, because his true name may somehow be the key to cause Clara to unlock her true eldritch power, causing Silence to Fall.

Of course, that theory is probably complete and utter bullshiat
 
2012-12-26 02:42:34 AM
uploads-riptapparel-com.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2012-12-26 02:45:26 AM
"I suggest a full frontal assault with automated laser monkeys, scalpel mines...and acid!"

Laser monkey. That anything like a dynamite monkey?

So did they show the preview of series 7b in the US?


i677.photobucket.com


i677.photobucket.com

i677.photobucket.com

i677.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-26 02:46:17 AM
Hmm, my theory may be even more bullshiat, because the idea of the Great Old ones came from the books rather than the tv show. Well, guess that'll happen when using the Tardis Index File wiki.
 
2012-12-26 02:46:46 AM
@ HopScotch: Should've been obvious on my part I admit, that is if the specific Snowmen in this special evolve regenerate, but I initially had the submarine episode rumors in mind, that's why.

Still have doubts they're going to limit prior Doctors' involvement to one special, being the 50th. Especially with what's been talked about here concerning McCoy.
 
2012-12-26 03:10:32 AM
I have to admit, I didn't much like tonight's episode. It felt rushed, and I just didn't feel any chemistry between the Doctor and Clara. Amy Pond wasn't the best companion ever, but at least they had chemistry. also, I miss Rory.
 
2012-12-26 03:17:22 AM
But then again, there's also the comparisons made by some people of Clara Oswin Ozwald dying two times in a row to Kenny from South Park, who is the product of a ritual in honor of Cthulhu, who is also a Great Old One, and so...and then...

...

Did I really just try to link together the universes of Doctor Who, H.P. Lovecraft and farking South Park together? Goddammit, I'm thinking up too much bullshiat tonight. I really need to get to farking sleep.
 
2012-12-26 03:55:47 AM

ClintonKun: Hmm, my theory may be even more bullshiat, because the idea of the Great Old ones came from the books rather than the tv show. Well, guess that'll happen when using the Tardis Index File wiki.


Moffat readily uses material from non-TV stories and incorporates them into canon. In addition to taking Professor Arthur Candy and Luna University from Moffat's own 1996 short story, "Continuity Errors" -- as well as his own usenet pontification about "the Doctor" being the source of the word & its definition, not the other way around -- he gave us Kate Stewart from the direct-to-video movies, Downtime and Dæmos Rising, films with which he had no personal connection. Kate had never even been mentioned in the series, much less seen.
 
2012-12-26 04:38:37 AM
Liz White seems to have run face first into the "age wall" - and hit it hard. In the five years since Life on Mars, she seems to have put on 15 years or more.

From this:
24.media.tumblr.com

to this:
images.wikia.com
 
2012-12-26 04:39:21 AM
I really liked it. There was much more too see and hear compared to last year's special. I love the Clara/Oswin twist and I think there will be an interesting story wrapped up in there. Could she be another fixed point in time? I don't think she understands who she actually is...and if she does...

What is her motive?

A couple things:

The doctor is fighting Simeon then the GI turns into water. Did the Doctor throw him off and then it turned to water or did the doctor throw him off after the GI turned to water? Did the Doctor throw him off because Simeon's body just simply died? That scene was really rushed and I don't quite get it. The GI saw the emotion in Oswin so it turned to water but what was the point of Simeon and Doctor fight? Just a sloppy scene that I think could have been better.

Anyway. Loved it. Can't wait to see more.
 
2012-12-26 05:02:39 AM

HopScotchNSoda: Liz White seems to have run face first into the "age wall" - and hit it hard. In the five years since Life on Mars, she seems to have put on 15 years or more.

From this:


to this:


...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 
2012-12-26 05:44:36 AM

47 is the new 42: That's a first for the new Doctor Who, but so was "It's smaller on the outside." Now how the hell did nobody ever have somebody say that before?


Because no one before Moffat was clever enough to think of it. One of the roots of comedy is "inversion", turning something on its head. Douglas Adams was very good at this (in fact, he'd often turn something on its head and then turn is sidewise), and Moffat is, too. At its most basic, it's just a matter of inverting something we've all heard a thousand times before (ie, "a sheep in wolf's clothing.")

Along similar lines, I realized earlier today that I'd love for someone on the show for once to look at the TARDIS and say, "It's a Police Box. Well, to be precise, it's something that looks like a police box but isn't" and then run down all the things that are "wrong" with it compared to the real thing (putting a lampshade on the fact that the prop on the show has never been an exact copy). It's the sort of thing that could be done in an episode set in the 40s or 50s in London, when they were still a common sight.

Mad_Radhu: Reading the Doctor Who wikis, it seems that at some point the Great Intelligence was established as being Yog-Sothoth.


That could actually happen, as Lovescraft's work has (blessedly) passed into the Public Domain. Also, Moffat is clearly a fan. We'll never get an ancient evil lurking at the center of our planet, though, as it's already been established it's inhabited by lizard people.
 
2012-12-26 07:06:42 AM

adammpower: Pawn takes the King: Amazingly awesome episode. Seriously thought the Intelligence's voice was Professor X, not Magneto.

according to the credits it was Magneto.




With the "Winter is coming" line, I half-thought it was Sean Bean.
 
2012-12-26 07:17:39 AM

RevMercutio: I demand more Vastra, Jenny, and Strax.


They really need a spin-off. Like a Victorian Sherlock Holmes/Torchwood with lizard lesbians and potato dwarves.
 
2012-12-26 07:22:53 AM

Dwight_Yeast: "It's a Police Box. Well, to be precise, it's something that looks like a police box but isn't" and then run down all the things that are "wrong" with it compared to the real thing (putting a lampshade on the fact that the prop on the show has never been an exact copy).


I could have sworn this happened before. Regardless, we did once get John Cleese providing art critique on the TARDIS, which is still the greatest interaction with the TARDIS ever.
 
2012-12-26 07:33:33 AM

HopScotchNSoda: Liz White seems to have run face first into the "age wall" - and hit it hard. In the five years since Life on Mars, she seems to have put on 15 years or more.


I'm hoping they just ran her through some ugh-ifying filter, like they did with Eve Myles.

blastr.com
 
2012-12-26 07:50:24 AM

t3knomanser: I could have sworn this happened before. Regardless, we did once get John Cleese providing art critique on the TARDIS, which is still the greatest interaction with the TARDIS ever.


It may have happened, as A) I haven't seen all the series and B) things that I have seen/heard pop out of my memory at random.
 
2012-12-26 07:53:37 AM

Dwight_Yeast: as Lovescraft's work has (blessedly) passed into the Public Domain


Now that's actually interesting. Because much of it, especially his later works, may or may not be in the Public Domain in the US. But they definitely are in England. Depending on what elements are used, and how they're approached, it's actually possible for there to be a Doctor Who episode that can air in England but never in the US.

I doubt it would happen (at most, they'd draw parallels to Lovecraft and make a crack about him knowing more about the world than was healthy), but it could.

Similarly, if Doctor Who ever used Frank Sinatra songs as a music cue, there's a huge swath of his catalog that are Public Domain in the UK, but not the US.

Also, it wasn't Clara's crying that defeated the Great Intelligence. It was "a family, crying on Christmas eve". The theme of the episode was the conflict between Victorian values and human values. It was poorly executed, but the actual character arc of the story was Captain Latimer- he's cold, distant, and uncomfortable with children and women. He's the ideal Victorian gentleman, much like Doctor Simeon. The climax of the episode is Latimer and his children crying as Clara dies.

That's where the editing and the direction of the episode failed. The entire plot revolves around that one emotional moment, but it's practically a blink-and-you'll-miss-it flash. And yes, it's a little annoying that the Doctor didn't actually do anything except ensure that all the characters who actually added value to the plot were in the right places at the right time.

Also, the Doctor just wants Clara around because finally he'll have a companion that can get offed every episode without any real consequences.
 
2012-12-26 08:06:11 AM

t3knomanser:

Similarly, if Doctor Who ever used Frank Sinatra songs as a music cue, there's a huge swath of his catalog that are Public Domain in the UK, but not the US.



Doesn't matter to the BBC. They have a one-off flat fee for all music use in all their shows. So a show can use whatever it wants for, effectively, free (since it's already been paid for).

That's why Top Gear has tons of rock music that has to be replaced with generic background music for repeats on Dave and overseas. Same reason Life On Mars had all of its 70s songs replaced.
 
2012-12-26 08:15:07 AM

Flint Ironstag: Same reason Life On Mars had all of its 70s songs replaced.


Oh, thank god I watched the BBC version of that. That'd be awful.
 
2012-12-26 08:46:48 AM
I can't be the only one who loved the imagery of the TARDIS on top of a cloud with a spiral staircase leading up to it. That is probably the purest depiction of the "fairy tale" theme that Moffat has been going for.
 
2012-12-26 08:49:15 AM

Metaluna Mutant: Wow! The Great Intelligence. One of the last of the classic who villains that has never re-appeared, until now. I always thought Lincoln and Haisman would never allow its re-use -- they had a falling out with the DW producers and refused to come back and write a third, concluding Great Intelligence story (which also would have seen the departure of Jamie). I know Haisman died in 2010, but Lincoln's still alive.

I wonder if they'll keep Ian McKellan for its voice in the (certain) future episodes.


They were very careful to dress this 'great intelligence' differently from its previous incarnations, but I
love it when they do call backs to old villains without actually re-using them (like in WATERS OF MARS
when Tennent's Doctor refers to The Ice Warriors).  The call back is doubly nice for me because Matt
Smith has gone on record as saying he's been drawing on Troughton's performance as the Doctor for
inspiration for his own, and when you know that it really adds to his portrayal.

About the only thing that annoyed me about THE SNOWMEN is the excessive use of the "Doctor who?"
line, but given that Moffat's made that a central point of the show there's little to be done with it at this
point.  I think its way too meta, but overall I like his take on things.  I just hope Clara doesn't become yet
another Mary Sue a la Rose Tyler.
 
2012-12-26 09:02:46 AM

t3knomanser: The theme of the episode was the conflict between Victorian values and human values. It was poorly executed, but the actual character arc of the story was Captain Latimer- he's cold, distant, and uncomfortable with children and women. He's the ideal Victorian gentleman, much like Doctor Simeon. The climax of the episode is Latimer and his children crying as Clara dies.


Yeah, I thought the ending was a bit slap-dash and fell apart as soon as you thought about it.

But the notion of VIctorian values was beautifully handled. (I'm betting Moffat is working on something set in that era) Unless you're obsessed by Victorian culture, there was a moment you would have missed: when all hell breaks loose on the stairs, and the father is confronted by various pieces of information (including that an ancient lizard person is standing in his hallways) the piece that bothers him is that the nanny not only has a male friend, but that they've been upstairs alone. In his brain, the lizard woman is perfectly respectable because she's married (it doesn't matter to whom) but the notion of a female servant being alone with a man is complete unacceptable.

(Also it's a great moment of comedy where a character has to process a huge amount of important information all at once at he latches on to the least important piece to focus on)
 
2012-12-26 09:16:30 AM
Also, the episode did a great a great job of capturing Moffat's conception of the Doctor: he's so intelligent, so far ahead of the situation that he actually comes off as stupid, as trailing behind. The scene with Clara on the roof is perfect: he knows how they're getting out of there, and he knows that she knows, but he's so far ahead of the game that it appears he doesn't know what he's doing at all. It's like Einstein times a thousand.
 
2012-12-26 09:19:52 AM
See, I picked up on that as being more related to the fact that earlier in the episode we had him make a fruedian slip and say he didn't expect someone so pretty to be so good with children... I mean so young! He clearly had feelings for Clara, so when all the weirdness hit the fan, what he latched onto was that the girl he liked had a "gentleman friend".
 
2012-12-26 09:21:23 AM

Dwight_Yeast: but he's so far ahead of the game that it appears he doesn't know what he's doing at all. It's like Einstein times a thousand.


Which, I think, is a big part of the reason people complain that things happen around the Doctor and he isn't actually important to the plot. Eleven is much more focused on putting the right people in the right places at the right times than he is on doing everything by himself.
 
2012-12-26 09:37:59 AM
Sorry, I'm watching the episode again while I'm eating breakfast, hence all the posts.

The line: "He is not your salvation nor your protector" is Moffat undoing all of RTD's work in a single stroke. I get the feeling we're getting a VERY different series from here on out!
 
2012-12-26 09:52:43 AM

Dwight_Yeast: The line: "He is not your salvation nor your protector" is Moffat undoing all of RTD's work in a single stroke.


pjmedia.com
 
2012-12-26 09:52:45 AM

Dwight_Yeast: That could actually happen, as Lovescraft's work has (blessedly) passed into the Public Domain. Also, Moffat is clearly a fan. We'll never get an ancient evil lurking at the center of our planet, though, as it's already been established it's inhabited by lizard people.


They've also pretty much done that plot back in The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit. Granted, it was on another planet.
 
2012-12-26 10:00:28 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Sorry, I'm watching the episode again while I'm eating breakfast, hence all the posts.

The line: "He is not your salvation nor your protector" is Moffat undoing all of RTD's work in a single stroke. I get the feeling we're getting a VERY different series from here on out!


Except Clara responded that Vastra was merely saying 'words' i.e. lies.

I really like the new companion, and don't mind that she has some sort of cosmic mystery behind her - I think it's smart to give the companions intergalactic importance.

I'm at work and really want to watch the episode again. Can't d/l expatshield or anything here. Any tips?
 
2012-12-26 10:08:24 AM

dramatools: Rwa2play: The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.
That's another revived element of the original series. Matt Smith is the first Doctor to appear in the main titles since McCoy. It was a signature element, except during the Colin Baker era when Six looked entirely too smarmy.


Very cool touch by the graphics people including Smith's image in the opening credits; paying homage to the original series (and considering what next year is, very apropo). And yeah, Six's image was too...smarmy.

I'm not going to go into the Clara/Oswin thing, except that Moffat is going to have a lot of fun with us over Season 7's back nine. Ok, maybe one part. It is unusual that the Doctor is now chasing the girl.

Yeah, this is going to be a very fun half-season in the Doctor chasing COO (instead of the other way around); for me it's going to be not so much who is she but what is she? Is she an anomaly in time? Someone trapped in time? Someone that's being forced to relive her life through time (ala Batman post-"Final Crisis")?

Should make for an interesting run leading up to the 50th Anniversary season.
 
2012-12-26 10:10:29 AM

HopScotchNSoda: dramatools: Rwa2play: The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.
That's another revived element of the original series. Matt Smith is the first Doctor to appear in the main titles since McCoy.

Unless you count 2003's "Scream of the Shalka", starring Richard E. Grant as the original Ninth Doctor. His cartoon face was shown in the opening sequence, even though the practice had not been used for McCoy or McGann in 1996.
"Scream of the Shalka" had been produced by the Beeb as canon, but was then de-canonised by Davies who - understandably - didn't want an animated Doctor included in the mix with the live-action actors.


RTD could've easily said that "Scream of the Shalka" and any other stories done before 2005 were retconned(?). IOW some of the stories still exist as canon, but others were either altered or completely erased due to the Time War.
 
2012-12-26 10:11:29 AM
Seems like a good place to put this.
i.qkme.me  (hotlinked)
 
2012-12-26 10:12:02 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Lord Binky: I also liked the face in the credits and the new TARDIS interior. Makes me curious if Moff's making some old school touches to prepare newer viewers for older Doctors.

The new interior (aside from being awesome) has a really important feature: the spinning discs above the console are covered in round forms which have previously been identified as Gallifreian glyphs, which helps bring the interior back into line with Galifrey technology.


Hmmm...possible spoiler there?
 
2012-12-26 10:15:46 AM

ClintonKun: With the return of the Great Intelligence, I wonder if this foretells of the return of the Great Old Ones. The last time they showed up (Fenric/Hastur and The Gods of Ragnarok), the series was also heavily making questions about who the Doctor really is.

Wild Implausible Theory time: Clara is a renegade Great Old One who divided herself into multiple eras. This is why she was able to (temporarily) defeat the Great Intelligence. She was also the first one to ask "Doctor Who?" in the history of the universe because she first came into this reality when the universe was born (on the fields of Trenzalore?), and the Doctor traveled back to that point maybe in the 50th Anniversary episode, introducing himself to her, thus making "Doctor Who?" the oldest question in the universe, but it must never be answered, because his true name may somehow be the key to cause Clara to unlock her true eldritch power, causing Silence to Fall.

Of course, that theory is probably complete and utter bullshiat


*wags finger* Newsletter, subscription, et. al.
 
2012-12-26 10:16:55 AM

Rwa2play: IOW some of the stories still exist as canon, but others were either altered or completely erased due to the Time War.


The rule for Doctor Who is that everything is canon until it isn't, and even then it still is if you need it to be. It's a universe where time travel exists and without Time Lords to supervise its use- it's a universe where pasts can be rewritten and revisited.
 
2012-12-26 10:19:24 AM

IronJelly: Seems like a good place to put this.
[i.qkme.me image 300x222]  (hotlinked)


I lol'ed. Never saw the crossover but pleeeeeeeeeease tell me a line like that was uttered in the story!
 
2012-12-26 10:20:44 AM

ClintonKun: I can't be the only one who loved the imagery of the TARDIS on top of a cloud with a spiral staircase leading up to it. That is probably the purest depiction of the "fairy tale" theme that Moffat has been going for.


*raises hand* Sort of Peter Pan-ish, if you will.
 
2012-12-26 10:24:33 AM

Rwa2play: Hmmm...possible spoiler there?


My thought has always been that the Time Lords are coming back because you don't cast someone like Timothy Dalton as Emperor of the Time Lords for a one-shot deal. Moffat is playing a long game with the show, and I've always got the sense he thought the whole notion of the Time War and writing the other Time Lords out was a mistake. Their existence justifies the Doctor's focus on an insignificant planet in a "galactic backwater", as they're out there, taking care of all the rest of space/time.
 
2012-12-26 10:28:54 AM

ClintonKun: Wild Implausible Theory time: Clara is a renegade Great Old One who divided herself into multiple eras.


I was wondering if she has some sort of split-across-time thing going on a la Scaroth.
 
2012-12-26 10:35:21 AM

sage37: Dwight_Yeast: Sorry, I'm watching the episode again while I'm eating breakfast, hence all the posts.

The line: "He is not your salvation nor your protector" is Moffat undoing all of RTD's work in a single stroke. I get the feeling we're getting a VERY different series from here on out!

Except Clara responded that Vastra was merely saying 'words' i.e. lies.

I really like the new companion, and don't mind that she has some sort of cosmic mystery behind her - I think it's smart to give the companions intergalactic importance.


You've got a good point there, but I was taught to always look at a line like that as important even when it's negated.

It speaks to the Doctor's mindset in the episode. And it does seem directed at RTD no matter how you slice it.

I like the notion that the new companion is going to be able to take care of herself, and that she ISN'T human. If she's some form of Time Lord or higher being, the Doctor will be more comfortable as she's not going to age out on him and when she leaves (when the actress decides to leave) we're not going to get another downer ending.
 
2012-12-26 10:49:16 AM

Mad_Radhu: Metaluna Mutant: Wow! The Great Intelligence. One of the last of the classic who villains that has never re-appeared, until now. I always thought Lincoln and Haisman would never allow its re-use -- they had a falling out with the DW producers and refused to come back and write a third, concluding Great Intelligence story (which also would have seen the departure of Jamie). I know Haisman died in 2010, but Lincoln's still alive.

I wonder if they'll keep Ian McKellan for its voice in the (certain) future episodes.

Reading the Doctor Who wikis, it seems that at some point the Great Intelligence was established as being Yog-Sothoth. Did this happen in the Troughton stories, or was this in other, more dubiously canon stories? If it was the former, a Great Old God type entity would be a good antagonist for the 50th anniversary.


The DW novels are congruent to the Star Wars Expanded universe stuff. Honesetly, as much as I love Lovecraft also, I'd rather then go with a entirely new origin, story motivation etc for the GI. The 2 Troughton stories never give proper exposition for the GI, other than it's from another dimension, and works through others to slowly "force" its way into ours. I'd rather a completely new story told.


www.bbc.co.uk (pic hot as a yeti)

I just want a those Silver Spheres to appear, even if it's only a dead/old/useless artifact. Very cool.
Actually, The Great Intelligence works very much like the Nestenes -- though Bob Holmes invented those and their affinity for (and his own loathing of) plastics.
 
2012-12-26 10:55:54 AM

t3knomanser: Dwight_Yeast: but he's so far ahead of the game that it appears he doesn't know what he's doing at all. It's like Einstein times a thousand.

Which, I think, is a big part of the reason people complain that things happen around the Doctor and he isn't actually important to the plot. Eleven is much more focused on putting the right people in the right places at the right times than he is on doing everything by himself.


If what he did with Clara Oswin Oswald (COO) is Eleven's new M.O., then I'm for it. Letting other people make or seem to make their own choices to take action isn't a bad thing. It's a better strategy for someone who is tired of doing all the work of saving and nothing getting better. Having a ready savior around doesn't typically inspire people to save themselves or others. It's like a parent who so wants their child to get good grades in school that they do all the kid's homework. Or a manager who fills in all the gaps in his team's performance by doing all the extra work without telling them. It really implies a lack of faith and trust to take the role of hero and not let anyone else step up.

Plus, like Doctors Two and Seven, Eleven is quite the tester and manipulator at times, and COO offers him both a tremendous mystery to solve and an extraordinary bodyintelligence to explore.


My only concern, and this struck me after reading HopScotchNSoda's comment above, is that COO may have more in common with LHO than just a last name and significant date. A sleeper assassin was already sent after The Doctor and failed, what if COO, with all of her Timey-Wimey, Deathy-Lifey (Sexy-Wexy) incarnations, is a contingency plan?
 
2012-12-26 11:05:44 AM
COO is what the Daleks were afraid of. A reality bomb experiment gone perky? We'll see.
 
2012-12-26 11:08:44 AM

Rwa2play: ClintonKun: I can't be the only one who loved the imagery of the TARDIS on top of a cloud with a spiral staircase leading up to it. That is probably the purest depiction of the "fairy tale" theme that Moffat has been going for.

*raises hand* Sort of Peter Pan-ish, if you will.


Better than that. Moffat can create worlds like JK Rowlings does.

And at his best, it's almost like watching Shakespeare, or at least Tom Stoppard. I just noticed the beautiful parallelism of the Doctor at the pond mistaking the Sultarian for Clara followed by Clara mistake the Ice Nanny for the Doctor. I want to take this episode apart and play with its gears.

I bring up Shakespeare because there's something about he "Halfway through the dark" speech which reminds me of the speech from Henry V that Branaugh did at the Olympic opening ceremonies; they strike the same tine with the moldy of their words.
 
2012-12-26 11:27:19 AM

ClintonKun: I can't be the only one who loved the imagery of the TARDIS on top of a cloud with a spiral staircase leading up to it. That is probably the purest depiction of the "fairy tale" theme that Moffat has been going for.


I thought it was cool, and could come in handy in future episodes. Plus there was something very "Christmassy" about it.
 
2012-12-26 11:32:20 AM
The episode was also a good segway into future episodes unlike the Christmas special from 2010. I loved the one in 2010 (flying sharks pulling a sleigh would be cool). But it was clearly disconnected from the episodes that came later, and that's to be expected in Christmas specials because they are unusual. However last night's Christmas special seemed to have more fluidity that will be easy to blend into the later plots of the series.
 
2012-12-26 11:35:23 AM
Metaluna Mutant:
I just want a those Silver Spheres to appear, even if it's only a dead/old/useless artifact. Very cool.

I thought the 'snowglobe' was a shout-out to that, actually:

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-12-26 11:36:06 AM
I take back my last theory above. Upon further review, I see that HopScotchNSoda got the dates of COO's birth and LHO's death slightly wrong.

LHO died on Nov 24. Nov 23 was the first air date of Doctor Who, and the date marked on COO's gravestone as being her birth day.


...Which is just as well, because I'd kind of hate it if COO was a baddie or merely a River redux. Better she be a sort of cosmic Hello Kitty (i.e.: she shows up in some form no matter where you go) than a secret villain.
 
2012-12-26 11:38:01 AM

Metaluna Mutant:
Reading the Doctor Who wikis, it seems that at some point the Great Intelligence was established as being Yog-Sothoth. Did this happen in the Troughton stories, or was this in other, more dubiously canon stories? If it was the former, a Great Old God type entity would be a good antagonist for the 50th anniversary.

The DW novels are congruent to the Star Wars Expanded universe stuff. Honesetly, as much as I love Lovecraft also, I'd rather then go with a entirely new origin, story motivation etc for the GI. The 2 Troughton stories never give proper exposition for the GI, other than it's from another dimension, and works through others to slowly "force" its way into ours. I'd rather a completely new story told.


[www.bbc.co.uk image 340x255] (pic hot as a yeti)

I just want a those Silver Spheres to appear, even if it's only a dead/old/useless artifact. Very cool.
Actually, The Great Intelligence works very much like the Nestenes -- though Bob Holmes invented those and their affinity for (and his own loathing of) plastics.


An idea the (then) DW writer Douglas Adams used for a DW pitch that was rejected so he worked it into the third HHGTTG book Life The Universe And Everything. Hactar was the super computer tasked with building a weapon that could destroy the universe but was destroyed by his creators when he deliberately built a dud. Now a cloud of particles he spent centuries slowly influencing the people of Krikket to carry out his original goal.
I have no idea if the idea was for the DW script to be the Great Intelligence or a different character.
 
2012-12-26 11:45:39 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Rwa2play: Hmmm...possible spoiler there?

My thought has always been that the Time Lords are coming back because you don't cast someone like Timothy Dalton as Emperor of the Time Lords for a one-shot deal. Moffat is playing a long game with the show, and I've always got the sense he thought the whole notion of the Time War and writing the other Time Lords out was a mistake. Their existence justifies the Doctor's focus on an insignificant planet in a "galactic backwater", as they're out there, taking care of all the rest of space/time.


Ever since the forthcoming Anniversary season I've thought they'll do something significant with the Time War. With the potential of the previous incarnations of the Doctor returning, I can see one way of the Time War being rewritten/retconned (read: Romana).
 
2012-12-26 11:52:13 AM

Rwa2play: dramatools: Rwa2play: The opening credits (including an image of Matt): Cool actually; the music's still meh though.
That's another revived element of the original series. Matt Smith is the first Doctor to appear in the main titles since McCoy. It was a signature element, except during the Colin Baker era when Six looked entirely too smarmy.

Very cool touch by the graphics people including Smith's image in the opening credits; paying homage to the original series (and considering what next year is, very apropo). And yeah, Six's image was too...smarmy.

I'm not going to go into the Clara/Oswin thing, except that Moffat is going to have a lot of fun with us over Season 7's back nine. Ok, maybe one part. It is unusual that the Doctor is now chasing the girl.

Yeah, this is going to be a very fun half-season in the Doctor chasing COO (instead of the other way around); for me it's going to be not so much who is she but what is she? Is she an anomaly in time? Someone trapped in time? Someone that's being forced to relive her life through time (ala Batman post-"Final Crisis")?

Should make for an interesting run leading up to the 50th Anniversary season.


She's The Doctor's Agrajag.

/He'd best steer clear of Stavromula Beta
 
2012-12-26 11:52:30 AM

Dwight_Yeast: I like the notion that the new companion is going to be able to take care of herself, and that she ISN'T human. If she's some form of Time Lord or higher being, the Doctor will be more comfortable as she's not going to age out on him and when she leaves (when the actress decides to leave) we're not going to get another downer ending.


Yeah, I almost wish this would be a full season on it's own; the possibilities with this plot/line of thinking can be endless.
 
2012-12-26 11:58:00 AM

Rhypskallion: COO is what the Daleks were afraid of. A reality bomb experiment gone perky? We'll see.


I think there's something more that even the Daleks couldn't comprehend and...there'll probably be a connection between her and the GI. Perhaps even something linking her, the GI and the Time War (a stretch but hey, while we're throwing out theories...).
 
2012-12-26 11:59:37 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Along similar lines, I realized earlier today that I'd love for someone on the show for once to look at the TARDIS and say, "It's a Police Box. Well, to be precise, it's something that looks like a police box but isn't" and then run down all the things that are "wrong" with it compared to the real thing (putting a lampshade on the fact that the prop on the show has never been an exact copy). It's the sort of thing that could be done in an episode set in the 40s or 50s in London, when they were still a common sight.


It happened in Blink. The cop gives 1 or 2 details about why it isn't a real phone box.
 
2012-12-26 12:00:32 PM

DjangoStonereaver:

I thought the 'snowglobe' was a shout-out to that, actually:

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 720x404]

I definitely got that vibe. And since the "second" GI story (Abominable snowmen) is set in 1923, it might explain where the GI gets the sphere-form. Gotta love Moffat, he knew only hardocre fans would get the reference, and adapted/modernized it to look good onscreen.

Flint Ironstag:

An idea the (then) DW writer Douglas Adams used for a DW pitch that was rejected so he worked it into the third HHGTTG book Life The Universe And Everything. Hactar was the super computer tasked with building a weapon that could destroy the universe but was destroyed by his creators when he deliberately built a dud. Now a cloud of particles he spent centuries slowly influencing the people of Krikket to carry out his original goal.
I have no idea if the idea was for the DW script to be the Great Intelligence or a different character.


That was Adam's idea for a DW movie, which he cannibalized and made into a HHGTG story. Adams took every unused concept he ever had and put it into something else later.
 
2012-12-26 12:15:31 PM

Metaluna Mutant:

That was Adam's idea for a DW movie, which he cannibalized and made into a HHGTG story. Adams took every unused concept he ever had and put it into something else later.


I'm not surprised considering he hated writing. My favourite quote of his is "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they fly by". And I still have the letter he sent me on BBC notepaper when I wrote to him years ago. The only time I have ever written a fan letter to a celebrity.
 
2012-12-26 12:16:14 PM

Jorn the Younger:
She's The Doctor's Agrajag.

/He'd best steer clear of Stavromula Beta


She has nicer teeth.
 
2012-12-26 12:24:14 PM

Flint Ironstag: Jorn the Younger:
She's The Doctor's Agrajag.

/He'd best steer clear of Stavromula Beta

She has nicer teeth.


So, she's definitely not as British as she appears.

/Finally watching the episode now. Loving the story, and Gandalf's voice. (Plus Doctor 7 was Radagast, someone write a crossover)
//They do seem to be hitting the "Doctor Who??" Thing just a little too hard, though.
///Liking Clara, but missing Rory some.
////Donna still best NuWho companion.
 
2012-12-26 12:24:50 PM

Rwa2play: Rhypskallion: COO is what the Daleks were afraid of. A reality bomb experiment gone perky? We'll see.

I think there's something more that even the Daleks couldn't comprehend and...there'll probably be a connection between her and the GI. Perhaps even something linking her, the GI and the Time War (a stretch but hey, while we're throwing out theories...).


Ok, my daughter's theory (14): The Doctor is still in the Asylum.
 
2012-12-26 12:40:05 PM
Still not sold on the new Tardis. I do like the new opening--except the explosion sounds when the logo pops up, that looks unnecessary.
 
2012-12-26 12:40:17 PM

Rhypskallion: Ok, my daughter's theory (14): The Doctor is still in the Asylum.


And she escaped as the Dalek Empress:

horrorboom.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-26 12:56:14 PM

Rhypskallion: Still not sold on the new Tardis. I do like the new opening--except the explosion sounds when the logo pops up, that looks unnecessary.


Not big on the new opening, but I'll get over it. Change is part of the show. It's one of the only constants in the series.

/that and Moffat lies.
//and JNT was a dick
 
2012-12-26 12:59:32 PM
I think the 'memory worm' dialogue was some of the best I've seen...

I lost my shiat when Strax stared off and said, "Oh look, it's been snowing." and the facial expression that went with it was just priceless.
 
2012-12-26 01:01:10 PM

sage37: Dwight_Yeast: Sorry, I'm watching the episode again while I'm eating breakfast, hence all the posts.

The line: "He is not your salvation nor your protector" is Moffat undoing all of RTD's work in a single stroke. I get the feeling we're getting a VERY different series from here on out!

Except Clara responded that Vastra was merely saying 'words' i.e. lies.

I really like the new companion, and don't mind that she has some sort of cosmic mystery behind her - I think it's smart to give the companions intergalactic importance.


I hate the "mostest specialest girl in the universe". Completely sick of it. 8 years of some random 20-25-year-old Earth broad being the center f the Universe. I can stand it for another nine episodes, since the mystery seems to be more interesting this time than with the last one, but enough is enough... can't a mouthy flight attendant or random juggy broad just hop aboard the TARDIS once in a while without having to be the center of everything?

/The last half of the season looks like it's going to be fun. And I can only hope season 8/50 is a season about The Doctor, not the latest mostest specialest girl in the universe.
 
2012-12-26 01:02:25 PM

moike: I think the 'memory worm' dialogue was some of the best I've seen...

I lost my shiat when Strax stared off and said, "Oh look, it's been snowing." and the facial expression that went with it was just priceless.


Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff

Also the line Vastra uses "I'm the lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife" was just great.
 
2012-12-26 01:05:56 PM

moike: I think the 'memory worm' dialogue was some of the best I've seen...

I lost my shiat when Strax stared off and said, "Oh look, it's been snowing." and the facial expression that went with it was just priceless.


Doubly impressive due to the thickness the Sontaran makeup, even with modern facial appliance technology.
 
2012-12-26 01:10:57 PM
One thing... so Strax is alive again? It's not just Strax from a time before he died, but a resurrected Strax? And the only negative effect of his resurrection is that he finds it difficult to count to himself?

This didn't happen onscreen, did it?
 
2012-12-26 01:16:22 PM

FirstNationalBastard: One thing... so Strax is alive again? It's not just Strax from a time before he died, but a resurrected Strax? And the only negative effect of his resurrection is that he finds it difficult to count to himself?

This didn't happen onscreen, did it?


There was a throwaway line about how he was revived by someone. Good enough for me. Doctor Who is one show where I simply don't bother with continuity aside from each season on its own.
 
2012-12-26 01:27:53 PM

FirstNationalBastard: One thing... so Strax is alive again? It's not just Strax from a time before he died, but a resurrected Strax? And the only negative effect of his resurrection is that he finds it difficult to count to himself?
This didn't happen onscreen, did it?



All Sontarans are clones. I figured resurrection is easier to explain to the Victorian English than cloning.
 
2012-12-26 01:50:03 PM

FirstNationalBastard: One thing... so Strax is alive again? It's not just Strax from a time before he died, but a resurrected Strax? And the only negative effect of his resurrection is that he finds it difficult to count to himself?

This didn't happen onscreen, did it?



No, he was assumed to have permanently died in Rory's arms -- his last words being a response to Rory reminding him that he is a warrior, "Rory, I'm a nurse," presumably unaware of the Last Centurion's identical dual nature.

The Doctor told Clara in the carriage that Strax laid down his life for one of the Doctor's friends (i.e. River and/or Amy). When Clara pointed out that Strax is nevertheless alive, the Doctor stated that another of his friends brought him back. Whether that other friend was Rory the nurse using the advanced technology of the Demon's Run sickbay, or the Siren who was presumably still aboard Captain Avery's space pirate ship, or River kissing life back into him, was not stated. Hell, he might have even received organs transplanted from Dorium's decapitated body.

On a separate note:

I just realised another name. While "Smith", "Jones", and Williams are understandably frequently used, Latimer - although not particularly obscure - seems comparatively unusual. That it should pop up again in another period piece set 21 years earlier gives me pause. Young quasi-companion Tim Latimer was "John Smith"'s pupil in 1913 in "Human Nature" & "The Family of Blood". Both he and Jackson Lake who lived on Latimer Road in 1851 had their brains infused with some of the Tenth Doctor's memories.
 
2012-12-26 01:53:11 PM

Titanius Anglesmith: Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff


I know Moffat's already doing Sherlock, but Strax, Vastra, and Jenny need to have their own spin-off where they're a Sherlock Holmes/Sarah Jane Smith crew that solves bizarre crimes and threats. I would subscribe to cable again if I could get that on BBCA.
 
2012-12-26 01:56:59 PM
I have one whacked out theory from the episode last night.

When Clara is telling a bed time story, she mentions that she invented fish because she hated to swim alone. I think we get the "Jim the fish" adventure finally.

Though this would involve all of Clara's incarnations having some sort of shared memory, which could make sense.
 
2012-12-26 01:59:45 PM
Despite his race having but one gender, Strax is referred to by the masculine pronouns and generally thought of as male.

But he does have functional boobies. Did that contribute to his acceptance in the Vastra-Flint household? Does he provide "lactic fluid" for their tea and for cooking?
 
2012-12-26 02:03:19 PM

Gilliam317: I have one whacked out theory from the episode last night.

When Clara is telling a bed time story, she mentions that she invented fish because she hated to swim alone. I think we get the "Jim the fish" adventure finally.

Though this would involve all of Clara's incarnations having some sort of shared memory, which could make sense.



I suspect it is more likely - and no pun intended - a red herring. There was also the unspecified British queen in Moffat's "Bad Night", who had been turned into a goldfish.
 
2012-12-26 02:14:38 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Despite his race having but one gender, Strax is referred to by the masculine pronouns and generally thought of as male.

But he does have functional boobies. Did that contribute to his acceptance in the Vastra-Flint household? Does he provide "lactic fluid" for their tea and for cooking?


Doesn't he refer to the fact that he can lactate at the beginning of GMGTW?
 
2012-12-26 02:18:21 PM

Dwight_Yeast: In his brain, the lizard woman is perfectly respectable because she's married (it doesn't matter to whom) but the notion of a female servant being alone with a man is complete unacceptable.


That's not how I read that scene. My impression was that the Captain was a bit sweet on the Governess, which is why his response was a bewildered and crestfallen, "You have a gentleman friend?"

He didn't ignore all the important things and focus on the trivial, he ignored all the trivial and focused on the only thing that actually mattered to him.
 
2012-12-26 02:20:45 PM

skepticultist: Dwight_Yeast: In his brain, the lizard woman is perfectly respectable because she's married (it doesn't matter to whom) but the notion of a female servant being alone with a man is complete unacceptable.

That's not how I read that scene. My impression was that the Captain was a bit sweet on the Governess, which is why his response was a bewildered and crestfallen, "You have a gentleman friend?"

He didn't ignore all the important things and focus on the trivial, he ignored all the trivial and focused on the only thing that actually mattered to him.


I disagree. That sort of thing is very not Victorian.
 
2012-12-26 02:25:29 PM

Rhypskallion: Rwa2play: Rhypskallion: COO is what the Daleks were afraid of. A reality bomb experiment gone perky? We'll see.

I think there's something more that even the Daleks couldn't comprehend and...there'll probably be a connection between her and the GI. Perhaps even something linking her, the GI and the Time War (a stretch but hey, while we're throwing out theories...).

Ok, my daughter's theory (14): The Doctor is still in the Asylum.


That would mean the Pond's are still alive. So, probably not so much.
 
2012-12-26 02:26:43 PM

Bloody William: Titanius Anglesmith: Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff

I know Moffat's already doing Sherlock, but Strax, Vastra, and Jenny need to have their own spin-off where they're a Sherlock Holmes/Sarah Jane Smith crew that solves bizarre crimes and threats. I would subscribe to cable again if I could get that on BBCA.


I'd be down for that too.
 
2012-12-26 02:31:41 PM
Reminds me a bit of Tom Baker & City of death where the alien guy's spaceship exploded and he was splintered in time
but all versions of him shared their memories somehow...
Maybe that's what happened to Clara ?
 
2012-12-26 02:37:11 PM

TheManofPA: HopScotchNSoda: Despite his race having but one gender, Strax is referred to by the masculine pronouns and generally thought of as male.

But he does have functional boobies. Did that contribute to his acceptance in the Vastra-Flint household? Does he provide "lactic fluid" for their tea and for cooking?

Doesn't he refer to the fact that he can lactate at the beginning of GMGTW?


That was my point. Conversely, why does Vastra (or any Silurian female for that matter) have boobs? Silurians are not mammals (as she proudly notes).

It wasn't at the beginning, though, it was when he, the Williamses and the Doctor arrived in the hangar where the TARDIS was parked. Melody (through her Flesh avatar) was crying. Rory thought she had shiat herself, Amy, having not smelled any faeces thought she was hungry - so Strax proposed to feed her with his great quantities of lactic fluid. The Doctor, however, being able to speak Baby, knew that she needed a nap.

Moffat had Vastra make a big point about how refreshing human blood is to taste. Couple this with her demonstration in AGMGTW of "Why [Jenny] put up with [her]," and it appears that the little Mrs. gets properly cleaned out with no need for a d-bag.
images.tzaam.com
 
2012-12-26 02:37:14 PM

Titanius Anglesmith: Bloody William: Titanius Anglesmith: Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff

I know Moffat's already doing Sherlock, but Strax, Vastra, and Jenny need to have their own spin-off where they're a Sherlock Holmes/Sarah Jane Smith crew that solves bizarre crimes and threats. I would subscribe to cable again if I could get that on BBCA.

I'd be down for that too.


The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.
 
2012-12-26 02:53:05 PM

DjangoStonereaver: The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.

Moreover, period pieces are considerably more expensive than contemporary settings, what with props, set dressing, costumes, and hiding the anachronisms when shooting on-location. Right now, the Beeb is working with slashed budgets. Give it a few years before "Tipping the Scales" will be economically viable.
 
2012-12-26 03:00:01 PM

HopScotchNSoda: DjangoStonereaver: The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.
Moreover, period pieces are considerably more expensive than contemporary settings, what with props, set dressing, costumes, and hiding the anachronisms when shooting on-location. Right now, the Beeb is working with slashed budgets. Give it a few years before "Tipping the Scales" will be economically viable.


Another valid point, though I think that even with their tighter budgets the number of BBC-produced
dramas set in that time period means that they have standing sets and existing Victorian-era costumes
hand whereas a US-based production doesn't.

Still:  I think that the characters are best if used sparingly.
 
2012-12-26 03:11:04 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Conversely, why does Vastra (or any Silurian female for that matter) have boobs? Silurians are not mammals (as she proudly notes).


Which is why, I would argue that Jenny and Vastra aren't lesbians. It's a pedantic argument, but we're discussing Doctor Who, so it's in-bounds.

When we discuss sexual orientation, we are really discussing the affinity towards a certain combination of primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Most people seem to feel that even if someone had a desirable personality, they wouldn't be attracted to someone if that combination of sexual characteristics were not to their liking.

In that context, a lesbian would be a female who is attracted to individuals possessing the primary and secondary sex characteristics of female humans. Despite some similarities, Vastra could not have those characteristics. We see that she has organs similar to mammaries, but they can not possibly be breasts, and I would imagine that upon close examination, they wouldn't trigger the same responses as breasts. Similarly, Vastra likely has an organ similar to a cloaca, which upon close examination could not seem anything like a vagina (especially since it's the endpoint of the reproductive, urinary and digestive tracts).

Similar issues hold true for Vastra.

While they certainly have a same-sex relationship, due to their alien biologies, I would argue that they are not "lesbians" as we would typically conceive of it.

DjangoStonereaver: The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.


It looked like they started cheaping out on it a bit this episode, even.
 
2012-12-26 03:22:07 PM

DjangoStonereaver: Still:  I think that the characters are best if used sparingly.


Yes, they run the risk of over-use. River, as intriguing and fun as she is, was over-used last year. Strax last night was funny, but can you imagine that schtick week after week?
 
2012-12-26 03:23:25 PM

DjangoStonereaver: Titanius Anglesmith: Bloody William: Titanius Anglesmith: Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff

I know Moffat's already doing Sherlock, but Strax, Vastra, and Jenny need to have their own spin-off where they're a Sherlock Holmes/Sarah Jane Smith crew that solves bizarre crimes and threats. I would subscribe to cable again if I could get that on BBCA.

I'd be down for that too.

The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.


I've thought of that. Probably way too much... Simply have the Doctor give her a gizmo that makes her appear human, so Neve McIntoch can just appear as herself most of the time and only have her 'true form' maybe a couple of times an episode. You'd probably need to do that purely for time reasons since the lead actor in a show having to spend hours a day in makeup would cause huge problems.
 
2012-12-26 03:27:14 PM

HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: One thing... so Strax is alive again? It's not just Strax from a time before he died, but a resurrected Strax? And the only negative effect of his resurrection is that he finds it difficult to count to himself?

This didn't happen onscreen, did it?


No, he was assumed to have permanently died in Rory's arms -- his last words being a response to Rory reminding him that he is a warrior, "Rory, I'm a nurse," presumably unaware of the Last Centurion's identical dual nature.


I figure this could just be earlier in their timeline.
 
2012-12-26 03:29:12 PM

DjangoStonereaver: HopScotchNSoda: DjangoStonereaver: The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.
Moreover, period pieces are considerably more expensive than contemporary settings, what with props, set dressing, costumes, and hiding the anachronisms when shooting on-location. Right now, the Beeb is working with slashed budgets. Give it a few years before "Tipping the Scales" will be economically viable.

Another valid point, though I think that even with their tighter budgets the number of BBC-produced
dramas set in that time period means that they have standing sets and existing Victorian-era costumes
hand whereas a US-based production doesn't.

Still:  I think that the characters are best if used sparingly.


The BBC don't really have any standing sets, or even many studios, anymore apart from the soaps in year round production. TV Centre has been sold and the sets there with it, though the plan is for a couple of them to be refurbished and back in use in a couple of years. DW and soaps like Casualty are rare in having permanent sets, as well as Eastenders.
Also many "BBC" shows are actually made by indie production companies and they can use any studios or sets they chose. Sherlock, Life On Mars, Spooks, Merlin, all made by indies.
 
2012-12-26 03:33:16 PM

Flint Ironstag: DjangoStonereaver: Titanius Anglesmith: Bloody William: Titanius Anglesmith: Strax is awesome. He needs his own spinoff

I know Moffat's already doing Sherlock, but Strax, Vastra, and Jenny need to have their own spin-off where they're a Sherlock Holmes/Sarah Jane Smith crew that solves bizarre crimes and threats. I would subscribe to cable again if I could get that on BBCA.

I'd be down for that too.

The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.

I've thought of that. Probably way too much... Simply have the Doctor give her a gizmo that makes her appear human, so Neve McIntoch can just appear as herself most of the time and only have her 'true form' maybe a couple of times an episode. You'd probably need to do that purely for time reasons since the lead actor in a show having to spend hours a day in makeup would cause huge problems.


Hmmm......

content8.flixster.com

I agree she should be seen more often.
 
2012-12-26 03:38:23 PM
img29.imageshack.us

She is rather cute...
 
2012-12-26 04:48:06 PM

t3knomanser: It looked like they started cheaping out on it a bit this episode, even.


I noticed that too. Besides the fact that her facial makeup already looked a bit different than it did on "A Good Man Goes To War", I noticed a few times where she seemed to have pink lips during the special.

HopScotchNSoda: Yes, they run the risk of over-use. River, as intriguing and fun as she is, was over-used last year. Strax last night was funny, but can you imagine that schtick week after week?


Yeah, it would go pretty stale fast. I also agree with you about River, she was used way too much last year, by the time her episode with the Angels (another over used character) came earlier this year she had lost a bit of her fun and mystery. I did notice in the "Coming Next Year" bit at the end that Strax, Vastra, and Jenny may come back later in the season, as well as Cybermen and maybe Sontarrans (the I saw was wearing regular Sontarran armor.
 
2012-12-26 05:18:52 PM

t3knomanser: HopScotchNSoda: Conversely, why does Vastra (or any Silurian female for that matter) have boobs? Silurians are not mammals (as she proudly notes).

Which is why, I would argue that Jenny and Vastra aren't lesbians. It's a pedantic argument, but we're discussing Doctor Who, so it's in-bounds.

When we discuss sexual orientation, we are really discussing the affinity towards a certain combination of primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Most people seem to feel that even if someone had a desirable personality, they wouldn't be attracted to someone if that combination of sexual characteristics were not to their liking.

In that context, a lesbian would be a female who is attracted to individuals possessing the primary and secondary sex characteristics of female humans. Despite some similarities, Vastra could not have those characteristics. We see that she has organs similar to mammaries, but they can not possibly be breasts, and I would imagine that upon close examination, they wouldn't trigger the same responses as breasts. Similarly, Vastra likely has an organ similar to a cloaca, which upon close examination could not seem anything like a vagina (especially since it's the endpoint of the reproductive, urinary and digestive tracts).

Similar issues hold true for Vastra.

While they certainly have a same-sex relationship, due to their alien biologies, I would argue that they are not "lesbians" as we would typically conceive of it.

DjangoStonereaver: The only thing stopping that would be the ongoing expense of the makeup for Lady Vastra.

It looked like they started cheaping out on it a bit this episode, even.



I wondered that about the makeup on Vastra as well. I didn't know if it was something new, on the cheap or that I had just gotten a new TV for Christmas that was nearly twice the size of my old one.
 
2012-12-26 05:36:24 PM
So nobody else thought that "an entire family crying on Christmas" saving the day through their salty tears was ridiculous?

And yeah, I also noticed the name name Latimer popping up. Maybe the little boy was the father of Latimer in Family of Blood.
 
2012-12-26 05:37:30 PM

t3knomanser: HopScotchNSoda: Conversely, why does Vastra (or any Silurian female for that matter) have boobs? Silurians are not mammals (as she proudly notes).

Which is why, I would argue that Jenny and Vastra aren't lesbians. It's a pedantic argument, but we're discussing Doctor Who, so it's in-bounds.

When we discuss sexual orientation, we are really discussing the affinity towards a certain combination of primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Most people seem to feel that even if someone had a desirable personality, they wouldn't be attracted to someone if that combination of sexual characteristics were not to their liking.

In that context, a lesbian would be a female who is attracted to individuals possessing the primary and secondary sex characteristics of female humans. Despite some similarities, Vastra could not have those characteristics. We see that she has organs similar to mammaries, but they can not possibly be breasts, and I would imagine that upon close examination, they wouldn't trigger the same responses as breasts. Similarly, Vastra likely has an organ similar to a cloaca, which upon close examination could not seem anything like a vagina (especially since it's the endpoint of the reproductive, urinary and digestive tracts).

Similar issues hold true for Vastra.

While they certainly have a same-sex relationship, due to their alien biologies, I would argue that they are not "lesbians" as we would typically conceive of it.



I would have to agree. This does, however, make me wonder exactly what sexual relations between these two would be like. I imagine it's more fun for the human than the reptile, seeing as the human has a clitoris and vulva, and the reptile has an exceptionally interesting tongue. The human also has nipples which are an erogenous zone, while the reptile's bumps that somewhat resemble breasts can't possibly have nipples, since lizards are not mammalian. The reptile would have a cloaca-like organ, I'm sure, and I can't imagine it has the same sensitivity that a clitoris on a human female would, so stimulation of this organ may or may not be pleasant to Vastra (and, remember that the cloaca is also the reptile's sole excretory orifice, so while there may be some stimulation for Vastra, her human companion would have to be okay with essentially licking what could be fairly called the reptile's anus.)

Standard lesbian sexual positions for clitoral stimulation would likely only have an effect on the human. Oral stimulation would be a more likely possibility, but it's not at all like lesbian sex when you consider the organs involved. Kissing would probably be rather nice, though, and I bet that those reptilian scales feel pretty interesting against the nether-regions of a human body... Not that I'd condone rubbing yourself with an iguana or anything like that.

But though we can't really call them lesbians, since their inter-species characteristics would trump their perceived gender, we can at least agree that they seem to be in love and are dedicated to each other, and really, that's all that matters.

I'm just glad we don't have to get into the mating practices of Sil.
 
2012-12-26 05:46:25 PM

Mike Chewbacca: So nobody else thought that "an entire family crying on Christmas" saving the day through their salty tears was ridiculous?


I did but I'm choosing not to dwell on it. The Christmas specials will always have something saccharine and they did enough other things right IMHO.
 
2012-12-26 05:58:32 PM

Mike Chewbacca: So nobody else thought that "an entire family crying on Christmas" saving the day through their salty tears was ridiculous?

And yeah, I also noticed the name name Latimer popping up. Maybe the little boy was the father of Latimer in Family of Blood.


Nothing will ever top the 'clap if you believe in fairies ' ending when the Doctor was captured by the Master.
 
2012-12-26 06:09:03 PM

NeoCortex42: Mike Chewbacca: So nobody else thought that "an entire family crying on Christmas" saving the day through their salty tears was ridiculous?

And yeah, I also noticed the name name Latimer popping up. Maybe the little boy was the father of Latimer in Family of Blood.

Nothing will ever top the 'clap if you believe in fairies ' ending when the Doctor was captured by the Master.


And as horrible as that was, it still isn't worse than Fear Her or Love and Monsters. Honestly, I'm not sure how I made it all the way through the Tennant years.
 
2012-12-26 06:13:35 PM

ZeroCorpse: so stimulation of this organ may or may not be pleasant to Vastra


If anything, actions that simulate the "cloacal kiss" would probably work well. A mouth makes a decent stand-in, I imagine, but yes, this does mean Jenny has to be one kinky little minx.
 
2012-12-26 06:19:43 PM

ZeroCorpse:

I would have to agree. This does, however, make me wonder exactly what sexual relations ... The reptile would have a cloaca-like organ, I'm sure, and I can't im ...


This needs to be moved to the geek tab. Or maybe we need a 'TMI GEEK' tab.
 
2012-12-26 06:20:31 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: NeoCortex42: Mike Chewbacca: So nobody else thought that "an entire family crying on Christmas" saving the day through their salty tears was ridiculous?

And yeah, I also noticed the name name Latimer popping up. Maybe the little boy was the father of Latimer in Family of Blood.

Nothing will ever top the 'clap if you believe in fairies ' ending when the Doctor was captured by the Master.

And as horrible as that was, it still isn't worse than Fear Her or Love and Monsters. Honestly, I'm not sure how I made it all the way through the Tennant years.


We also can't forget Jesus Doctor being flown by angel robots, or Superman Master shooting balls of lightning.
 
2012-12-26 06:33:54 PM

Mike Chewbacca: I also noticed the name name Latimer popping up. Maybe the little boy was the father of Latimer in Family of Blood.


That would be cutting things a little close, time-wise. If anything, I figured that Tim Latimer was the kids future half-brother, from Capt. Latimer's eventual remarriage.


ZeroCorpse: I would have to agree. This does, however, make me wonder exactly what sexual relations between these two would be like. I imagine it's more fun for the human than the reptile, seeing as the human has a clitoris and vulva, and the reptile has an exceptionally interesting tongue. The human also has nipples which are an erogenous zone, while the reptile's bumps that somewhat resemble breasts can't possibly have nipples, since lizards are not mammalian. The reptile would have a cloaca-like organ, I'm sure, and I can't imagine it has the same sensitivity that a clitoris on a human female would, so stimulation of this organ may or may not be pleasant to Vastra (and, remember that the cloaca is also the reptile's sole excretory orifice, so while there may be some stimulation for Vastra, her human companion would have to be okay with essentially licking what could be fairly called the reptile's anus.)


Moffat made it clear in AGMGTW that Vastra's cunniligus (and/or analingus) abilities were a key aspect of their relationship. ("I don't know why you put up with me." [Thwack!] as she immediately stings an Anglican marine from across the room with her absurdly long and apparently prehensile tongue.) As for Vastra's cloaca being just as much a bung hole as it is a vag, that just means that Jenny tosses salad. Nothing wrong with that; it's all good. Alternatively, maybe Vastra prefers a good deep-dicking with a big, scaley lizard strap-on wielded by Jenny.

The bit about her love of human blood and it's obvious implication got me wondering about the reverse. Does Jenny fry up Vastra's un-fertilised eggs for breakfast?

What is disturbing is Vastra's inability or unwillingness to control her urges and not fall in love with the help. "Taking her reward" with the ill-bred cockney maid is one thing - but to marry her? Heavens to Mergatroid! Capt. Latimer fancied Clara / Miss Montague, but he recognised her unsuitability (even before learning that she was actually of a far lower station than even a governess).
 
2012-12-26 06:34:50 PM
Damn it! Yes, I *do* know the difference between "its" and "it's". That was a typo. Drat!
 
2012-12-26 06:43:35 PM

TheManofPA: Dwight_Yeast: Along similar lines, I realized earlier today that I'd love for someone on the show for once to look at the TARDIS and say, "It's a Police Box. Well, to be precise, it's something that looks like a police box but isn't" and then run down all the things that are "wrong" with it compared to the real thing (putting a lampshade on the fact that the prop on the show has never been an exact copy). It's the sort of thing that could be done in an episode set in the 40s or 50s in London, when they were still a common sight.

It happened in Blink. The cop gives 1 or 2 details about why it isn't a real phone box.


And again in The Doctor's Wife:

Idris: There's a sign on my front door. You have been walking past it for seven hundred years. What does it say?

The Doctor: That's not instructions!

Idris: There's an instruction at the bottom. What does it say?

The Doctor: "Pull to open."

Idris: Yes, and what do you do?

The Doctor: I push!

Idris: Every single time. Seven hundred years. Police box doors open out the way.
 
2012-12-26 06:48:57 PM

malle-herbert: Reminds me a bit of Tom Baker & City of death where the alien guy's spaceship exploded and he was splintered in time
but all versions of him shared their memories somehow...
Maybe that's what happened to Clara ?


It's not a matter of "somehow", but it's hard to explain.

First you have to accept that there's no such thing as "Time" as we perceive it. There is Space/Time, which are inseparable and they're what the Doctor generally means when "wibbly wobbly" comes up. We can move in three directions in space but only one in time, and we assume we have no control over that one.

But there's no reason a being couldn't exist that could move through the fourth dimension (time) as we move through the other three.
 
2012-12-26 06:54:03 PM

TheManofPA: Dwight_Yeast: Along similar lines, I realized earlier today that I'd love for someone on the show for once to look at the TARDIS and say, "It's a Police Box. Well, to be precise, it's something that looks like a police box but isn't" and then run down all the things that are "wrong" with it compared to the real thing (putting a lampshade on the fact that the prop on the show has never been an exact copy). It's the sort of thing that could be done in an episode set in the 40s or 50s in London, when they were still a common sight.

It happened in Blink. The cop gives 1 or 2 details about why it isn't a real phone box.


Thank you! I'm sadly getting to the point where my mind is starting to elide what I create and what I remember.
 
2012-12-26 07:00:17 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: Yeah, it would go pretty stale fast. I also agree with you about River, she was used way too much last year, by the time her episode with the Angels (another over used character) came earlier this year she had lost a bit of her fun and mystery. I did notice in the "Coming Next Year" bit at the end that Strax, Vastra, and Jenny may come back later in the season, as well as Cybermen and maybe Sontarrans (the I saw was wearing regular Sontarran armor.


Yeah, the trio is coming back later in the year for more fun. Notice that the Doctor tells them to stay right where they are, so it looks like he's going to find Clara and then at some point return with her.
 
2012-12-26 07:02:09 PM

ArcadianRefugee: The Doctor: "Pull to open."


Doesn't that sign technically refer to the door for the phone, which does open outward?

/Great scene, though
 
2012-12-26 07:20:20 PM

Mad_Radhu: Doesn't that sign technically refer to the door for the phone, which does open outward?


I believe so, but I think the main doors on a real police box open outwards, as well.

Like this:

www.policeboxes.com
 
2012-12-26 07:27:27 PM

ClintonKun: I can't be the only one who loved the imagery of the TARDIS on top of a cloud with a spiral staircase leading up to it. That is probably the purest depiction of the "fairy tale" theme that Moffat has been going for.


Did anyone else notice that the spiral staircase changed direction at the very top?

From the bottom, it spiraled upward the traditional way, with the center column on your right. However, near the very top, the last complete twist was with the center on one's left (demonstrated by the fact that Clara had her right hand on the rail when she reached the top.

Even the TARDIS's frickin' staircases wibble-wobble four-dimensionally.
 
2012-12-26 07:34:06 PM

ArcadianRefugee: ClintonKun: I can't be the only one who loved the imagery of the TARDIS on top of a cloud with a spiral staircase leading up to it. That is probably the purest depiction of the "fairy tale" theme that Moffat has been going for.

Did anyone else notice that the spiral staircase changed direction at the very top?

From the bottom, it spiraled upward the traditional way, with the center column on your right. However, near the very top, the last complete twist was with the center on one's left (demonstrated by the fact that Clara had her right hand on the rail when she reached the top.

Even the TARDIS's frickin' staircases wibble-wobble four-dimensionally.



Why not? The staircase was also shorter on the inside than it was on the outside as the Doctor explained to Clara when she wondered how they were able to get up so high so fast.
 
2012-12-26 07:42:29 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Even the TARDIS's frickin' staircases wibble-wobble four-dimensionally.


Why not? The staircase was also shorter on the inside than it was on the outside as the Doctor explained to Clara when she wondered how they were able to get up so high so fast.


I dunno. I think I might be more unsettled by finding out that I was physically inverted somehow (her left hand is on the rail ... now her right and she's traveling in the opposite direction!) than by realizing I got some place faster than I had calculated. The latter only seems to warps space.
 
2012-12-26 08:38:08 PM

FirstNationalBastard: And the Matt Smith era brought about a TARDIS regeneration, so it looks all shiny and new now.


Well not anymore, the outside is completely dilapidated and most of the paint has worn off. Looks like he has been parked there brooding over Amy for many years.
 
2012-12-26 09:21:59 PM

Hand Banana: FirstNationalBastard: And the Matt Smith era brought about a TARDIS regeneration, so it looks all shiny and new now.

Well not anymore, the outside is completely dilapidated and most of the paint has worn off. Looks like he has been parked there brooding over Amy for many years.


That happened in The Angels Take Manhattan, caused by the temporal energy. Makes it look even more like the first Doctor's TARDIS as a result...
 
2012-12-26 09:25:57 PM

Mike Chewbacca: So nobody else thought that "an entire family crying on Christmas" saving the day through their salty tears was ridiculous?

And yeah, I also noticed the name name Latimer popping up. Maybe the little boy was the father of Latimer in Family of Blood.


Not with GI. I mean, if you found that ridiculous you'd have to find most doctor who conclusions ridiculous.

The way GI works, it simply latches onto the strongest emotion in the area. At least they used some ground rules and didn't use a deus ex machina to end the episode.
 
2012-12-26 09:32:57 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: NeoCortex42: Mike Chewbacca: So nobody else thought that "an entire family crying on Christmas" saving the day through their salty tears was ridiculous?

And yeah, I also noticed the name name Latimer popping up. Maybe the little boy was the father of Latimer in Family of Blood.

Nothing will ever top the 'clap if you believe in fairies ' ending when the Doctor was captured by the Master.

And as horrible as that was, it still isn't worse than Fear Her or Love and Monsters. Honestly, I'm not sure how I made it all the way through the Tennant years.


Yeah. I usually defend doctor who (as I.mentioned above) but there were some really far reaching deus ex moments in the tenant years. Some of that stuff seemed to he just written in to end the episode. It's all well and good but I wish some of it has been a little more thought out.
 
2012-12-26 09:44:49 PM

Bloody William: I caught it early and it's AWESOME. Also, I'm really interested in Oswin and what happens with her. My theory is she's a time-splintered Rani who fractured across the timeline to avoid the Time War, but I thought River was the Rani too, so I'm probably wrong. Also, Shrax!

Also, that was the greatest Doctor Who Christmas episode in ages. I've always found them bland or pointless, but this was interesting and really leads into the next season.

Also, Victorian detective lizard gay marriage.


My hubby has a theory that clara is the child of The Doctor and River Song, hence how she can exist/die in more than one era
 
2012-12-26 10:08:27 PM
I think Clara is just another example of someone being "remembered into existence" like the Doctor a couple of seasons back...
 
2012-12-26 10:20:32 PM

Hand Banana: FirstNationalBastard: And the Matt Smith era brought about a TARDIS regeneration, so it looks all shiny and new now.

Well not anymore, the outside is completely dilapidated and most of the paint has worn off. Looks like he has been parked there brooding over Amy for many years.


That's another thing I don't like and don't agree with and is hugely out of character.

Adric gets smeared into a fine paste, and The Doctor is in Heathrow soon after chasing a plane through time. Peri seemingly gets her brain sucked out and replaced, and life goes on. Even Rose goes to a parallel universe, and the Doctor goes on to find a good redhead. But the Red Menace goes away to live a normal, happy life and there's years of brooding?

Moffat is worse than RTD was about making his pet characters THE MOST IMPORTANT EVER.
 
2012-12-26 10:29:15 PM

dopekitty74: Bloody William: I caught it early and it's AWESOME. Also, I'm really interested in Oswin and what happens with her. My theory is she's a time-splintered Rani who fractured across the timeline to avoid the Time War, but I thought River was the Rani too, so I'm probably wrong. Also, Shrax!

Also, that was the greatest Doctor Who Christmas episode in ages. I've always found them bland or pointless, but this was interesting and really leads into the next season.

Also, Victorian detective lizard gay marriage.

My hubby has a theory that clara is the child of The Doctor and River Song, hence how she can exist/die in more than one era


In which case the whole snogging thing really wasn't a good idea.

/Dallas got away with having Lucy and Ray shagging, only to reveal a few years later that Ray was her uncle and no one ever said anything.
 
2012-12-26 10:32:55 PM

Flint Ironstag: dopekitty74: Bloody William: I caught it early and it's AWESOME. Also, I'm really interested in Oswin and what happens with her. My theory is she's a time-splintered Rani who fractured across the timeline to avoid the Time War, but I thought River was the Rani too, so I'm probably wrong. Also, Shrax!

Also, that was the greatest Doctor Who Christmas episode in ages. I've always found them bland or pointless, but this was interesting and really leads into the next season.

Also, Victorian detective lizard gay marriage.

My hubby has a theory that clara is the child of The Doctor and River Song, hence how she can exist/die in more than one era

In which case the whole snogging thing really wasn't a good idea.

/Dallas got away with having Lucy and Ray shagging, only to reveal a few years later that Ray was her uncle and no one ever said anything.


They were in Texas.
 
2012-12-26 10:38:35 PM

FirstNationalBastard: But the Red Menace goes away to live a normal, happy life and there's years of brooding?


To be fair, the arc was meant to cover the entirety of the Doctor's companions. Much of the Moffat era has focused on how dangerous the Doctor is to be around.
 
2012-12-26 11:07:44 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Adric gets smeared into a fine paste, and The Doctor is in Heathrow soon after chasing a plane through time. Peri seemingly gets her brain sucked out and replaced, and life goes on. Even Rose goes to a parallel universe, and the Doctor goes on to find a good redhead. But the Red Menace goes away to live a normal, happy life and there's years of brooding?


They established that the Ponds were traveling with the Doctor for over a decade, so he would be much more attached to them than other companions that were with him a shorter time, so it should have been a bigger blow emotionally. Also, they have been playing up how his 1100 plus years of loss is weighing on the Doctor, so it is less the one time loss and more the accumulated pain of all the lost companions. Maybe Moffat should have driven that home a bit more by giving the Doctor a one-two punch of also having him finding out about Sarah Jane around the same time, but that card kind of already go played with the Brigadier in the season 6 finale.
 
2012-12-26 11:17:30 PM

Mad_Radhu: FirstNationalBastard: Adric gets smeared into a fine paste, and The Doctor is in Heathrow soon after chasing a plane through time. Peri seemingly gets her brain sucked out and replaced, and life goes on. Even Rose goes to a parallel universe, and the Doctor goes on to find a good redhead. But the Red Menace goes away to live a normal, happy life and there's years of brooding?

They established that the Ponds were traveling with the Doctor for over a decade, so he would be much more attached to them than other companions that were with him a shorter time, so it should have been a bigger blow emotionally.


Due to the nature of the show, we don't know how long other companions traveled with him. Plus, Rory and his baggage were with The Doctor for a decade of their lives, not necessarily a decade of the Doctor's life. Remember, they had plenty of down time back on Earf between times the Doctor popped in.
 
2012-12-26 11:47:54 PM
Just once I'd like to hear The Doctor tell a story about a companion prior to Rose. Like, for instance, I'd like to hear him explain how he still feels responsible for Adric's death, or how he regrets the way he treated Peri, or how he wishes he had finished what he was trying to do with Ace, or how Donna kind of reminded him of Mel.

"And there was this time when I regenerated, and nobody was looking at me because Peri was leaning over me."
 
2012-12-26 11:49:33 PM

Flint Ironstag: My hubby has a theory that clara is the child of The Doctor and River Song, hence how she can exist/die in more than one era

In which case the whole snogging thing really wasn't a good idea.


Meh. Incest and time travel go hand in hand. In factm if you want to live forever, being your own father or grandfather may be the best thing.
 
2012-12-27 12:26:40 AM
With all of the time-travel, I feel that the writers are failing to incorporate past stories going on in the timeline. That was done somewhat in Remembrance of the Daleks which was set a day or two after "An Unearthly Child" (and included the day that it aired), and Sarah Jane mentioned the events of one of the Doctor's recent adventures when they reunited in "School Reunion", and "The Curse of the Black Spot" sort of tied into The Smugglers, but such examples are rare.

Take this past episode for an example. Vastra, Strax, and Jenny have been back from Demon's Run for four years, fighting crime in London, eating criminals, eating each other, and using their advanced technology to keep the world secure. In the middle of that time what happens? The Savoy Hotel is built atop an alien space ship, and the Doctor and his in-laws show up in the nick of time. There is no indication that the Paternostra Row Gang even knew about it, much less participated.

Meanwhile, Vastra is pretty damn open about who and what she and Strax are - in the heyday of the Torchwood Institute. Somehow, I doubt that Torchwood or the Home Office would care about splitting hairs as to whether Vastra is technically "alien", and would consider her an enemy of the Empire. Strax is certainly alien.

Within a couple of years of "The Snowmen"'s setting, the events of The Talons of Weng-Chiang take place.

There are a lot of examples of when different incarnations of the Doctor are in multiple places at the same time. Take 22 November 1963 for example. The First Doctor had just departed from the junk yard a couple of days earlier with Susan, Ian & Barbara. The Sixth Doctor and Ace are back at the junk yard & the Cole Hill School, fighting Daleks -- meanwhile, the Ninth Doctor is in Dallas with a front row spot to watch Kennedy's head turn to pink mist and to pose for Zabruder. Less than six years later, the Eleventh Doctor, Rory and River are rescuing Amy from the Silence in Florida at the same moment that several incarnations of the Tenth Doctor and Martha are just off-camera watching Neal Armstrong in person. It's as if these things are on completely independent timelines, with no acknowledgement of the other.

Look at another scene in "Day of the Moon": when the Doctor, Amy, Rory, and Canton land the TARDIS on the side of a skyscraper being constructed, and River dives into the pool. Of the five people aboard the TARDIS, the Doctor is, ironically, the only one who is not known to be simultaneously outside of the TARDIS, in or en route to New York. Amy and Rory's elderly selves are there (hell, they might have even gone into the city to watch if they knew the right date & building). Canton's days- or weeks- younger self is a few stories above, having just watched River back flip into oblivion. River's young self is on her way there from Florida.

Vastra looked in AGMGTW like she was rather well settled, and hadn't just recently established herself. Well, five years earlier, a Graske was running around her own damn neighbourhood in "Attack of the Graske" right there in front of the park where the Doctor later hovered the TARDIS in "The Snowmen".
 
2012-12-27 12:38:40 AM

HopScotchNSoda: With all of the time-travel, I feel that the writers are failing to incorporate past stories going on in the timeline.


Well, the whole point is that he can't "cross his own timeline". What that means exactly has never been clear, but it seems that if the Doctor were in two places on Earth at the same moment and none of the events they affected affected each other, they'd be fine. Realistically, that means in 1895, one Doctor could be in London, while the other was in Borneo, where one event could never directly affect the other.

That is impossible in todays world.
 
2012-12-27 01:06:47 AM

ZeroCorpse: Just once I'd like to hear The Doctor tell a story about a companion prior to Rose. Like, for instance, I'd like to hear him explain how he still feels responsible for Adric's death, or how he regrets the way he treated Peri, or how he wishes he had finished what he was trying to do with Ace, or how Donna kind of reminded him of Mel.

"And there was this time when I regenerated, and nobody was looking at me because Peri was leaning over me."



There have been any number of opportune times to mention Adric, given his death's relevance to both Silurian and mammalian histories. He fulfilled their prophesy and facilitated the emergence of mammals, leading to humans. Maybe that's been avoided because of the general hatred of Adric. He's also been rendered sort of obsolete (Amelia took his mantle as the youngest companion, Adam bested him as the most unwanted companion, and Jack is a far more "fabulous" companion - NTTAWWT of course).

The writers also blew an opportunity to reference Benton last year. At the end of "The God Complex", the Doctor could have indicated that Benton was the dealer who sold him the car which he gave to Rory. Benton became a used car dealer when he retired from the Army, as the Brigadier stated in Mawdryn Undead. That would have been doubly apropos, given the similarity between Benton's and Rory's calm cool badassery and refusal to rattle off the "It's bigger on the inside" line since they felt no need to state the obvious..

The Doctor does allude to Susan and her presumed death, from time to time. Amy commented about Leela's attire in "Meanwhile in the TARDIS 2" but Leela's presumed death when Gallifrey was destroyed has gone unmentioned. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart of course has been a repeated topic of conversation. Ten and Sarah Jane re-enacted her two farewell scenes from The Web of Fear (the "don't you forget me" scene was repeated almost verbatim in "The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith", and she stood in the middle of the road, silently watching the TARDIS de-materialise in "School Reunion".) He also used "Dr James McCrimmon" as his alias in "Tooth and Claw". Eleven has made a couple of references to K-9 in "Closing Time" (Hum, a robot dog; not as much fun as I remember.") and "The Power of Three" (Is that all you do? Hover? I had a metal dog could do that.")

The Sarah Jane Adventures was far more active about addressing classic era companions. The portrait of the Brigadier in her attic was the first footage from the classic era to be used in the revived era. She caught us up on not only herself, and guest-stars the Brigadier and Jo; but also revealed the post-companionship lives of Ian, Barbara, Ben, Polly, Ace, Liz, and Tegan, and the post-companionship death of Harry. Ace was scheduled to guest star, but her episodes were cancelled when Sladen died.

If anyone was going to remind him of Mel, it would be River, given their out-of-sequence relationship.
 
2012-12-27 01:36:29 AM

Dwight_Yeast: HopScotchNSoda: With all of the time-travel, I feel that the writers are failing to incorporate past stories going on in the timeline.

Well, the whole point is that he can't "cross his own timeline". What that means exactly has never been clear, but it seems that if the Doctor were in two places on Earth at the same moment and none of the events they affected affected each other, they'd be fine. Realistically, that means in 1895, one Doctor could be in London, while the other was in Borneo, where one event could never directly affect the other.

That is impossible in todays world.


Others (i.e. mortals) supposedly can't (the Blinovich Limitation Effect), although Amy has been repeatedly shown to be immune in "The Big Bang", "Good Night", and "Space". The Doctor can certainly interact with himself, as demonstrated in The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors, "Time Crash", Ten's and Martha's repeated returns to watch Neal Armstrong (as stated by Martha in "Blink"), Nine visiting Krakatoa's eruption with either One or Two (Nine was depicted there in "Rose" and Three [back when the TARDIS didn't function] said that he had been there).

My point is that there are multiple things going on that are never referenced. Stuff in the past (his past or the world's past) is mentioned, or the allusions to what a character or creature or force will do in the future because the Doctor already experienced that (i.e., the stuff about the Great Intelligence and the London Underground). But there is rarely any note taken to the events that are simultaneously occurring or recently occurred (in terms of the world's chronology) that we, the audience know about because an earlier story dealt with it.

When Amy and Rory were trying to celebrate their -125th wedding anniversary and instead fighting the [Atraxi?] at the Savoy, Vincent van Gogh had recently said good-bye to the Doctor & Amy, and was suffering his final agonising weeks. Did that occur to Amy? No, perish the thought. She was only thinking about getting her barren wasteland pumped full of Rory juice.

When the Doctor and Martha were trapped without the TARDIS in the spring of 1969, waiting for Inspector Shipton, he knew that the events of The Invasion were going down (and thus where his younger TARDIS could be found). A few months later, when the Eleventh Doctor was in Florida with his soon-to-be family, watching Armstrong on the television, and several copies of the Tenth Doctor & Martha were on the Moon, watching in-person, the Third Doctor was in England with a non-functioning TARDIS, working for Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart and sharing cape-suits with Elvis.
 
2012-12-27 01:43:08 AM
Catching up with this thread. Have only watched the cold open and the title sequence so far (waiting for the girlfriend to get out of the bath before continuing), but having said that...

Dwight_Yeast: Rwa2play: Hmmm...possible spoiler there?

My thought has always been that the Time Lords are coming back because you don't cast someone like Timothy Dalton as Emperor of the Time Lords for a one-shot deal. Moffat is playing a long game with the show, and I've always got the sense he thought the whole notion of the Time War and writing the other Time Lords out was a mistake. Their existence justifies the Doctor's focus on an insignificant planet in a "galactic backwater", as they're out there, taking care of all the rest of space/time.


It's been well-established over the entire history of the series that the Time Lords were very much not "taking care of all the rest of space/time." That's arguably the main reason The Doctor left Gallifrey in the first place - the Time Lords' strict non-intervention policy. There have obviously been exceptions made, but it's always been made clear that Gallifrey keeps to itself pretty much ever since Rassilon.

I hope you're wrong about their return. I much prefer the "last of his kind" thing. It gives the character additional weight, and makes him somewhat more unpredictable, with all the baggage he's carrying around.


TeddyRooseveltsMustache: The episode was also a good segway segue...


FTFY

Dwight_Yeast: Mad_Radhu: Doesn't that sign technically refer to the door for the phone, which does open outward?

I believe so, but I think the main doors on a real police box open outwards, as well.


Absolutely true. If the doors opened inward, the interiors of real police boxes would be largely useless.
 
2012-12-27 02:00:43 AM

HopScotchNSoda: When the Doctor and Martha were trapped without the TARDIS in the spring of 1969, waiting for Inspector Shipton, he knew that the events of The Invasion were going down (and thus where his younger TARDIS could be found). A few months later, when the Eleventh Doctor was in Florida with his soon-to-be family, watching Armstrong on the television, and several copies of the Tenth Doctor & Martha were on the Moon, watching in-person, the Third Doctor was in England with a non-functioning TARDIS, working for Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart and sharing cape-suits with Elvis.


I fully understand this nitpick, but there are a lot of things you have to be willing to overlook to enjoy "Doctor Who." Considering how many stories take place on Earth (too many in the modern series, if you ask me - it's ridiculous that we'd be invaded so often given the rate of failure), this sort of problem is inevitable.

However, a point of order: The Pertwee/Baker-era UNIT stories ostensibly took place in the late '70s and early '80s. Sarah Jane says several times in the course of her companionship that she's from 1980, and since she was introduced during 3's exile on Earth, that pretty much nails it.

Well, that is until Peter Grimwade (writer), Peter Moffatt (director) and JNT cocked it all up in "Mawdryn Undead," by saying the Brigadier retired in 1976, and Tegan and Nyssa visit him afterwards in 1977.

So that right there's another example of how you can't really get hung up on this stuff if you want to stay sane and stay a "Doctor Who" fan.

Now, off to finish the episode!
 
2012-12-27 02:02:35 AM

HopScotchNSoda: Dwight_Yeast: HopScotchNSoda: With all of the time-travel, I feel that the writers are failing to incorporate past stories going on in the timeline.

Well, the whole point is that he can't "cross his own timeline". What that means exactly has never been clear, but it seems that if the Doctor were in two places on Earth at the same moment and none of the events they affected affected each other, they'd be fine. Realistically, that means in 1895, one Doctor could be in London, while the other was in Borneo, where one event could never directly affect the other.

That is impossible in todays world.

Others (i.e. mortals) supposedly can't (the Blinovich Limitation Effect), although Amy has been repeatedly shown to be immune in "The Big Bang", "Good Night", and "Space". The Doctor can certainly interact with himself, as demonstrated in The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors, "Time Crash", Ten's and Martha's repeated returns to watch Neal Armstrong (as stated by Martha in "Blink"), Nine visiting Krakatoa's eruption with either One or Two (Nine was depicted there in "Rose" and Three [back when the TARDIS didn't function] said that he had been there).

My point is that there are multiple things going on that are never referenced. Stuff in the past (his past or the world's past) is mentioned, or the allusions to what a character or creature or force will do in the future because the Doctor already experienced that (i.e., the stuff about the Great Intelligence and the London Underground). But there is rarely any note taken to the events that are simultaneously occurring or recently occurred (in terms of the world's chronology) that we, the audience know about because an earlier story dealt with it.

When Amy and Rory were trying to celebrate their -125th wedding anniversary and instead fighting the [Atraxi?] at the Savoy, Vincent van Gogh had recently said good-bye to the Doctor & Amy, and was suffering his final agonising weeks. Did that occur to Amy? No, perish the thought. She was only thinking about getting her barren wasteland pumped full of Rory juice.

When the Doctor and Martha were trapped without the TARDIS in the spring of 1969, waiting for Inspector Shipton, he knew that the events of The Invasion were going down (and thus where his younger TARDIS could be found). A few months later, when the Eleventh Doctor was in Florida with his soon-to-be family, watching Armstrong on the television, and several copies of the Tenth Doctor & Martha were on the Moon, watching in-person, the Third Doctor was in England with a non-functioning TARDIS, working for Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart and sharing cape-suits with Elvis.


Not quite. First, Pertwee's tenure as The Doctor didn't begin until 1970. Second, the third Doctor's era was supposedly set about 5 years beyond the then-present day, putting his stories in the mid-to-late 70s.

So, the third Doctor wasn't running around in 1969 while 10 and 11 were also there.
 
2012-12-27 02:14:23 AM
If you want to get a headache trying to work out the UNIT timeline, here's the tardis.wikia article. It gets especially brain-twisting in the "contradictory clues" section at the bottom. Don't hurt yourselves.
 
2012-12-27 03:05:40 AM
I feel like I should point out that the works of Douglas Noel Adams basically act as a parallel gloss to Doctor Who, as he covers a lot of its faults in his books.

If DNA had been the show-runner for the last 40 years, everything would have been perfect.

On the other hand, he would have only been able to produce about four serials in that time.
 
2012-12-27 04:03:48 AM
I too am sorry to see that we don't get Victorian Clara. would have been a nice change of pace.

What bugged me most in the whole episode though was a well-educated, proper, rich Victorian gentleman saying "I said I would feed you. I didn't say who to."


It's "to whom," you farkwits.
 
2012-12-27 04:08:42 AM

Dwight_Yeast: I feel like I should point out that the works of Douglas Noel Adams basically act as a parallel gloss to Doctor Who, as he covers a lot of its faults in his books.

If DNA had been the show-runner for the last 40 years, everything would have been perfect.

On the other hand, he would have only been able to produce about four serials in that time.


As a huge Adams fan, I must disagree with you only this point. The show would have gone in an irreversibly silly direction.
 
2012-12-27 05:09:40 AM
I loved that the big bad guy was a giant alien snow-globe.
 
2012-12-27 05:40:06 AM

Max Awesome: I loved that the big bad guy was a giant alien snow-globe.


As opposed to the usual pepper pots on wheels and guys in silver flight suits?
 
2012-12-27 09:27:27 AM

Cheesehead_Dave: [nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com image 500x313]



I think the "Winter is Coming" references are sort of an in joke since the actress playing Clara is dating the actor who plays Robb Stark in Game of Thrones.
 
2012-12-27 11:12:25 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Max Awesome: I loved that the big bad guy was a giant alien snow-globe.

As opposed to the usual pepper pots on wheels and guys in silver flight suits?


Hey, now. They recently upgraded the Cybermen to low-rent Iron Man costumes.

doctorwhotv.co.uk
 
2012-12-27 11:51:41 AM
As for the UNIT dating, yes, the plan had been for the stories to take place 5-10 years into the future, but the writers often forgot or were not told, so it was not at all consistently followed-through and many stories were written to be in the then-present, and even most of the stories that were written to be in the 5-10 years ahead period did not make a point of actually identifying that fact.

By the later portion of the Fourth Doctor's run, Turner and the writers were retconning out the failed 5-10-years-into-the-future thing, and Sarah Jane & the Brigadier were the prime tools for doing so. "A Girl's Best Friend" (the pilot for K-9 & Company was specifically set in 1981 and took place well after the end of SJS' companionship. The Fifth Doctor serial, Mawdryn Undead , took place in both the spring of 1977 (leading up to the Silver Jubiliee) and in 1983; Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart and the unseen WO Benton were both retired in 1976, the former teaching maths at a boarding school and the latter a used car salesman. The Sarah Jane Smith Adventures had three two-parters set in her youth, and all were consistent with a "then-present" time-frame for the UNIT stories (infant in 1951, a little girl in the 50s, & 13 years old in 1964). The tongue-in-cheek way that both TSJA and DW addressed the UNIT dating controversy put the emphasis on the 1970s. Also, the BBC's own episode details pages all place the UNIT stories near the time of their airing.
 
2012-12-27 08:39:11 PM

dramatools: Seriously. Unless some of the BritFarkers want to drop some spoilers, we still don't know if Oswin and Clara have any sort of relationship (and spare me the inevitable suggestion of Jenna-Louise Coleman making out with herself since Oswin was bi-curious). For all we know, there may be something. Conversely, Moffat could just be f--king with us, and dropped the lovely Ms. Coleman in "Asylum of the Daleks" as a red herring.  Meanwhile, here she is doing her best impression of Myleene Klass:


how would we even know that? Did she flirt with Amelia pond while I wasn't looking?
 
2012-12-27 09:15:14 PM
simrobert2001: [...]  how would we even know that? Did she flirt with Amelia pond while I wasn't looking?

She suggests it as Oswin in "Asylum of the Daleks."
[...]Oswin also implied that she was bisexual, admitting to Rory that she'd once fancied a girl called Nina, although she added that she'd been going through a phase. [...]

Disclaimer here: Wiki articles may be unreliable, especially when written about a Doctor Who character who probably won't be fully fleshed out for a couple of months.
 
2012-12-27 09:46:55 PM

ActionJoe: Dwight_Yeast: Lord Binky: I also liked the face in the credits and the new TARDIS interior. Makes me curious if Moff's making some old school touches to prepare newer viewers for older Doctors.

The new interior (aside from being awesome) has a really important feature: the spinning discs above the console are covered in round forms which have previously been identified as Gallifreian glyphs, which helps bring the interior back into line with Galifrey technology.

The Tardis since 2005 has always had the round forms. They were usually just hidden or blended into the background. Even during this episode I didn't really see any prominent Gallifreyan parts of the Tardis. The new Tardis looks a lot closer to the copied Tardis the Doctor found in "The Lodger" which seems to be implied that the Silence came up with it. Makes for an interesting foreshawdow.


Actually, The one in "the lodger" was actually a ship belonging to the silence. In all likelihood, the doctor has been tinkering with his own TARDIS during his isolation.
 
2012-12-28 07:45:43 PM

HopScotchNSoda: My point is that there are multiple things going on that are never referenced. Stuff in the past (his past or the world's past) is mentioned, or the allusions to what a character or creature or force will do in the future because the Doctor already experienced that (i.e., the stuff about the Great Intelligence and the London Underground). But there is rarely any note taken to the events that are simultaneously occurring or recently occurred (in terms of the world's chronology) that we, the audience know about because an earlier story dealt with it.



Well ... faced with all that, I can only conclude that this is a show that doesn't depend on absolute continuity among hundreds of details in order to be enjoyable.

I'd argue that, on the other hand, it wouldn't be that much fun to watch if every episode required an encyclopedic knowledge of 50 years of Who in order to make any sense. If that were the case I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one giving up watching.

The occasional nod to the old stuff is fun, and since it's insignificant enough to overlook if you want, it's probably the most enjoyable way to reference what's come before.
 
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