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(Daily Mail)   Meanwhile, in the gunless utopia of Britain   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 414
    More: Scary, Britain, samurai sword, samurai  
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25120 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Dec 2012 at 1:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-25 03:13:05 AM

mediaho: ... no one is suggesting completely disarming the American populace. So... what was the point?


You sure about that?
 
2012-12-25 03:14:53 AM

simkatu: JSam21: Enigmamf: Terrifying how he was able to kill 26 helpless school children before being subdued, with narry a semiautomatic military-style rifle in sight.

Wait, he wasn't? So... How many DID he kill?

Oh... none?

Huh.

May I ask what makes a rifle or any weapon "military style"

Some guns are meant to kill ducks. Some quail. Others kill deer, elk, bears. Some are designed mainly to kill humans in large numbers. Those are military style weapons. Normal folks don't hunt with AR15s with 100 round magazines.


And most people who own ARs or variants of ARs don't have 100 round mags. But they are used for hunting varment. They make 100 round mags for my glock... does that make that a military style weapon? And by your definition, wouldn't that make 99% of handguns military style weapons, since they aren't made for hunting?
 
2012-12-25 03:15:06 AM

KrispyKritter: ignorance is bliss, subby. folks in Britain can have firearms, they just use them for hunting animals as they are intended.



Yeah, who would want to use a weapon on a human who is attacking them.  That would be ridiculous.
 
2012-12-25 03:16:23 AM

CthulhuCalling: simkatu: Except most citizens don't have assault rifles. Those things usually cost upwards of $20,000 a piece.

Sig Sauer M400 is an AR-15. Sells for $897 at Wal-Mart. The Colt version of the AR-15 sells for $1100 at Wal-Mart. No waiting period required in my state. Not a felon? Pick one up today, guaranteed.

Neither of them are assault rifles. Hint: a characteristic of an assault rifle includes select-fire operation.


Depends on who you ask. Most folks include a bunch of other characteristics that you didn't mention. These used to be banned under assault weapons ban of 1994. Bushmaster became popular by avoiding most of the characteristics.
 
2012-12-25 03:17:41 AM

OddLlama: In all the gun threads I've read lately, there are those who insist that the second amendment is to insure protection for citizens against tyrannical governments. What I have never heard addressed is the army commanded by that government.are these people implying that our soldiers would take up arms against their families and friends in order to give power to a few in Washington? Do they not trust and support our troops? Why have I never heard this addressed?


This has only been brought up a few dozen times so far, and my response has become increasingly polished, so let me take a swing at this...

We are not talking about the government as it exists now or the army as it exists now. Obviously, there is no significant armed opposition to our army since very few think the status quo is so unbearable right now.

The point is that things change. There is no way to predict what the country will be like 5 years from now, much less 20. It could be plague, it could be civil war, it could be an asteroid strike. It could be indefinite martial law. It would be incredibly dense to try to plot these scenarios out - because if we could, we would just avoid them.
 
2012-12-25 03:18:59 AM

KrispyKritter: ignorance is bliss, subby. folks in Britain can have firearms, they just use them for hunting animals as they are intended.


Not as many as you seem to think. I got to know a moderately wealthy Brit and his wife spending holiday in California with some friends of mine. They spent a couple days going to the local shooting range so this man could remember how it felt to shoot firearms again. He hadn't fired one since his service days. He said it was near impossible to get clearance to own a firearm in England even to cull the overpopulated deer herd that lived on his property.
 
2012-12-25 03:19:37 AM

simkatu: CthulhuCalling: simkatu: Except most citizens don't have assault rifles. Those things usually cost upwards of $20,000 a piece.

Sig Sauer M400 is an AR-15. Sells for $897 at Wal-Mart. The Colt version of the AR-15 sells for $1100 at Wal-Mart. No waiting period required in my state. Not a felon? Pick one up today, guaranteed.

Neither of them are assault rifles. Hint: a characteristic of an assault rifle includes select-fire operation.

Depends on who you ask. Most folks include a bunch of other characteristics that you didn't mention. These used to be banned under assault weapons ban of 1994. Bushmaster became popular by avoiding most of the characteristics.


You're describing an 'assault weapon', which is a political confabulation. An assault rifle is a completely different beast, but used interchangeably by the media and politicians to muddy the waters.
 
2012-12-25 03:20:37 AM

simkatu: CthulhuCalling: simkatu: Except most citizens don't have assault rifles. Those things usually cost upwards of $20,000 a piece.

Sig Sauer M400 is an AR-15. Sells for $897 at Wal-Mart. The Colt version of the AR-15 sells for $1100 at Wal-Mart. No waiting period required in my state. Not a felon? Pick one up today, guaranteed.

Neither of them are assault rifles. Hint: a characteristic of an assault rifle includes select-fire operation.

Depends on who you ask. Most folks include a bunch of other characteristics that you didn't mention. These used to be banned under assault weapons ban of 1994. Bushmaster became popular by avoiding most of the characteristics.


Yes... like a pistol grip on a rifle automatically made it an "assault rifle" along with an adjustable stock.
 
2012-12-25 03:22:37 AM

CthulhuCalling: simkatu: JSam21: Enigmamf: Terrifying how he was able to kill 26 helpless school children before being subdued, with narry a semiautomatic military-style rifle in sight.

Wait, he wasn't? So... How many DID he kill?

Oh... none?

Huh.

May I ask what makes a rifle or any weapon "military style"

Some guns are meant to kill ducks. Some quail. Others kill deer, elk, bears. Some are designed mainly to kill humans in large numbers. Those are military style weapons. Normal folks don't hunt with AR15s with 100 round magazines.

Hint: nobody hunts with 100 round mags. Weapons that are designed to 'kill humans in large numbers' are reserved almost exclusively for the military. An AR15 is a semiautomatic weapon that happens to have a visual similarity to certain military weapons. You're scared of how something looks.


Nobody hunts with AR15s period. They do sell 100 round magazines. Sometimes even to kooks that plan on killing lots of humans at once. That's the point. Never once heard of a hunter going out to shoot game with his AR. Maybe blast them around for fun or to kill varmints, but not real hunters.
 
2012-12-25 03:23:11 AM

JSam21: Yes... like a pistol grip on a rifle automatically made it an "assault rifle" along with an adjustable stock.


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2012-12-25 03:24:00 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: mediaho: ... no one is suggesting completely disarming the American populace. So... what was the point?

You sure about that?


Yes. No serious people are suggesting that. It's absurd.
 
2012-12-25 03:25:58 AM

CthulhuCalling: JSam21: Yes... like a pistol grip on a rifle automatically made it an "assault rifle" along with an adjustable stock.

notsureifserious.jpg


Notserious.jpg
 
2012-12-25 03:26:45 AM

simkatu: Nobody hunts with AR15s period. They do sell 100 round magazines. Sometimes even to kooks that plan on killing lots of humans at once. That's the point. Never once heard of a hunter going out to shoot game with his AR. Maybe blast them around for fun or to kill varmints, but not real hunters.


wait a sec, you say that nobody hunts with an AR, but then you say that people do? I know plenty of hunters that hunt with an AR15, up to and including deer, but it's not really suited for that (and yes, I feel that an AR15 is inappropriate for taking a deer, but possibly an AR10). Plenty of varmint, hog and predator hunters use the AR platform. Whether it's used for hunting or not is just a red herring. Plenty of people at the range shoot the AR because they enjoy the hobby and the AR is a good platform for building a customized gun.
 
2012-12-25 03:27:08 AM

simkatu: CthulhuCalling: simkatu: JSam21: Enigmamf: Terrifying how he was able to kill 26 helpless school children before being subdued, with narry a semiautomatic military-style rifle in sight.

Wait, he wasn't? So... How many DID he kill?

Oh... none?

Huh.

May I ask what makes a rifle or any weapon "military style"

Some guns are meant to kill ducks. Some quail. Others kill deer, elk, bears. Some are designed mainly to kill humans in large numbers. Those are military style weapons. Normal folks don't hunt with AR15s with 100 round magazines.

Hint: nobody hunts with 100 round mags. Weapons that are designed to 'kill humans in large numbers' are reserved almost exclusively for the military. An AR15 is a semiautomatic weapon that happens to have a visual similarity to certain military weapons. You're scared of how something looks.

Nobody hunts with AR15s period. They do sell 100 round magazines. Sometimes even to kooks that plan on killing lots of humans at once. That's the point. Never once heard of a hunter going out to shoot game with his AR. Maybe blast them around for fun or to kill varmints, but not real hunters.


Ok... but what is a "real hunter"?
 
2012-12-25 03:28:35 AM

JSam21: simkatu: JSam21: Enigmamf: Terrifying how he was able to kill 26 helpless school children before being subdued, with narry a semiautomatic military-style rifle in sight.

Wait, he wasn't? So... How many DID he kill?

Oh... none?

Huh.

May I ask what makes a rifle or any weapon "military style"

Some guns are meant to kill ducks. Some quail. Others kill deer, elk, bears. Some are designed mainly to kill humans in large numbers. Those are military style weapons. Normal folks don't hunt with AR15s with 100 round magazines.

And most people who own ARs or variants of ARs don't have 100 round mags. But they are used for hunting varment. They make 100 round mags for my glock... does that make that a military style weapon? And by your definition, wouldn't that make 99% of handguns military style weapons, since they aren't made for hunting?



The irrational people (which includes the media) define a "military style weapon" or an "assault weapon" as anything that has a curved magazine, something on the end of the barrel (doesn't matter what it is) and a comfortable handle/grip set-up.  Oh, it helps if it's black... because black looks more evil.

It's never the crazy person behind the gun that causes the chaos.... it's the way the gun looks.

BTW, you can get high-capacity magazines for practically every gun.

ww3.cad.de
 
2012-12-25 03:28:46 AM
http://mobile.slate.com/blogs/crime/20 12/12/18/bath_school_bombing_rem embering_the_deadliest_school_massacre _in_american.html

Mentally unstable people will kill with what they have on hand. But they will kill. You cannot ban all weapons and gaurantee public security at all times. Stop promising it to people... Either by disarming them or arming them. Both the liberals and the NRA are wrong.

Think you CAN gaurantee security, if you disarm the people enough? Ala Saudi Arabia? Look at Lybia, Syria, or Iran. You will have to regularly repress the people and/or kill them in far more numbers than irresponsible or illegal gun use leads to in America today.

Whether the public is armed or not, it is not NRA nuts, CCP afficianadios or hunters that we are really worried about. It is crazy people. With guns. Or knives (china last week), or swords (uk today), or dynamite (us 80 yeas ago). What we need is not gun control but crazy control. More mental health services not more gun regulation.

And yes. It's hard for an American civilian to take on the US Army with an AR15. But can the 1mil man army, half of which are desk clerks, take on 100 million civilians with Glocks and AR15s? Not easily. Might stall the government long enough to come to their senses. Maybe not. But gotta love having a fighting chance.

Still, all this worry of gun violence... You are much more likely to die in a car accident or from Cancer.
 
2012-12-25 03:30:27 AM

JSam21: simkatu: CthulhuCalling: simkatu: Except most citizens don't have assault rifles. Those things usually cost upwards of $20,000 a piece.

Sig Sauer M400 is an AR-15. Sells for $897 at Wal-Mart. The Colt version of the AR-15 sells for $1100 at Wal-Mart. No waiting period required in my state. Not a felon? Pick one up today, guaranteed.

Neither of them are assault rifles. Hint: a characteristic of an assault rifle includes select-fire operation.

Depends on who you ask. Most folks include a bunch of other characteristics that you didn't mention. These used to be banned under assault weapons ban of 1994. Bushmaster became popular by avoiding most of the characteristics.

Yes... like a pistol grip on a rifle automatically made it an "assault rifle" along with an adjustable stock.


There's no way to please everyone, so we shouldn't even try? I can own a gun this big, so why not THIS big? People will always say there's little difference at the exact line in the sand that's drawn. Duh. Little difference between driving with BAC of .079 and .080, but one could mean a felony conviction and the other no punishment at all. We still need to start with some sort of line.
 
2012-12-25 03:31:29 AM

simkatu: Pray 4 Mojo: mediaho: ... no one is suggesting completely disarming the American populace. So... what was the point?

You sure about that?

Yes. No serious people are suggesting that. It's absurd.


Fair enough.

That said... I don't see any "serious" gun owners/supporters suggesting that guns should just be handed out to anyone with the money to pay for it.

So what's the problem?
 
2012-12-25 03:31:53 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Holloway Road sword attack - 1 victim

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - 26 victims

I don't know how you can reconcile the fact that guns are far more lethal on a per-incident basis than any other weapon.


Attacks such as those at Sandy Hook are statistical anomalies. Also, guns are not the problem.
 
2012-12-25 03:32:09 AM

CthulhuCalling: simkatu: Nobody hunts with AR15s period. They do sell 100 round magazines. Sometimes even to kooks that plan on killing lots of humans at once. That's the point. Never once heard of a hunter going out to shoot game with his AR. Maybe blast them around for fun or to kill varmints, but not real hunters.

wait a sec, you say that nobody hunts with an AR, but then you say that people do? I know plenty of hunters that hunt with an AR15, up to and including deer, but it's not really suited for that (and yes, I feel that an AR15 is inappropriate for taking a deer, but possibly an AR10). Plenty of varmint, hog and predator hunters use the AR platform. Whether it's used for hunting or not is just a red herring. Plenty of people at the range shoot the AR because they enjoy the hobby and the AR is a good platform for building a customized gun.


And you can purchase AR variants in .308 which is a round used to hunt deer, elk, and moose... so again what is a real hunter?
 
2012-12-25 03:33:18 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: simkatu: Pray 4 Mojo: mediaho: ... no one is suggesting completely disarming the American populace. So... what was the point?

You sure about that?

Yes. No serious people are suggesting that. It's absurd.

Fair enough.

That said... I don't see any "serious" gun owners/supporters suggesting that guns should just be handed out to anyone with the money to pay for it.

So what's the problem?


Exactly!
 
2012-12-25 03:33:46 AM

tukatz: It's never the crazy person behind the gun that causes the chaos.... it's the way the gun looks.

BTW, you can get high-capacity magazines for practically every gun.


True. Under the old AWB, if I take my old trusty Ruger 10/22 and drop the receiver into an aftermarket body with a adjustable stock and pistol grip, it suddenly becomes an 'assault weapon'. My Mossberg 930 becomes an a an 'assault weapon' just by changing out the stock. Neither of these changes do anything to effect the performance of the firearms at all and are merely cosmetic.
 
2012-12-25 03:34:16 AM
No one needs a semi-auto assault rifle that besides killing an intruder, can just as easily shoot through a wooden wall and kill your neighbour three houses down, or the kid walking down the street. PIstols on the other hand make some sense, at least for home defence purposes..

And speaking of the 2nd amendment, I wonder how many US gun fanatics are really part of a "well regulated Militia", and not just latent thugs.
 
2012-12-25 03:36:26 AM

Pointy Tail of Satan: And speaking of the 2nd amendment, I wonder how many US gun fanatics are really part of a "well regulated Militia", and not just latent thugs.


Got my patch:
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-25 03:37:16 AM

CthulhuCalling: simkatu: JSam21: Enigmamf: Terrifying how he was able to kill 26 helpless school children before being subdued, with narry a semiautomatic military-style rifle in sight.

Wait, he wasn't? So... How many DID he kill?

Oh... none?

Huh.

May I ask what makes a rifle or any weapon "military style"

Some guns are meant to kill ducks. Some quail. Others kill deer, elk, bears. Some are designed mainly to kill humans in large numbers. Those are military style weapons. Normal folks don't hunt with AR15s with 100 round magazines.

Hint: nobody hunts with 100 round mags. Weapons that are designed to 'kill humans in large numbers' are reserved almost exclusively for the military. An AR15 is a semiautomatic weapon that happens to have a visual similarity to certain military weapons. You're scared of how something looks.


This. A million times this.
 
2012-12-25 03:37:19 AM

Pointy Tail of Satan: No one needs a semi-auto assault rifle that besides killing an intruder, can just as easily shoot through a wooden wall and kill your neighbour three houses down, or the kid walking down the street. PIstols on the other hand make some sense, at least for home defence purposes..

And speaking of the 2nd amendment, I wonder how many US gun fanatics are really part of a "well regulated Militia", and not just latent thugs.


Glad you have read the SCOTUS ruling on the 2nd amendment and also have an understanding of how super sonic rounds react to hitting something... here's a hint... they break up.
 
2012-12-25 03:38:03 AM

JSam21: simkatu: CthulhuCalling: simkatu: JSam21: Enigmamf: Terrifying how he was able to kill 26 helpless school children before being subdued, with narry a semiautomatic military-style rifle in sight.

Wait, he wasn't? So... How many DID he kill?

Oh... none?

Huh.

May I ask what makes a rifle or any weapon "military style"

Some guns are meant to kill ducks. Some quail. Others kill deer, elk, bears. Some are designed mainly to kill humans in large numbers. Those are military style weapons. Normal folks don't hunt with AR15s with 100 round magazines.

Hint: nobody hunts with 100 round mags. Weapons that are designed to 'kill humans in large numbers' are reserved almost exclusively for the military. An AR15 is a semiautomatic weapon that happens to have a visual similarity to certain military weapons. You're scared of how something looks.

Nobody hunts with AR15s period. They do sell 100 round magazines. Sometimes even to kooks that plan on killing lots of humans at once. That's the point. Never once heard of a hunter going out to shoot game with his AR. Maybe blast them around for fun or to kill varmints, but not real hunters.

Ok... but what is a "real hunter"?


Ones that don't intend to kill lots of humans with a gun that has been designed specifically designed to kill lots of humans. My family has thousands of acres of hunting ranch property. We run boarding rooms for them during the seasons. Nobody ever brings an AR15 to hunt. Not in 30 years that I know about.
 
2012-12-25 03:38:18 AM

Pointy Tail of Satan: No one needs a semi-auto assault rifle that besides killing an intruder, can just as easily shoot through a wooden wall and kill your neighbour three houses down, or the kid walking down the street. PIstols on the other hand make some sense, at least for home defence purposes..

And speaking of the 2nd amendment, I wonder how many US gun fanatics are really part of a "well regulated Militia", and not just latent thugs.


The times they are a changing. The 2nd Amendment does not mean exactly the same thing it meant when it was ratified in 1791.
 
2012-12-25 03:38:41 AM

JSam21: Ok... but what is a "real hunter"?


I can tell you what a real hunter isn't.

It isn't a guy shooting an AR from his pickup at deer by a feeder.
 
2012-12-25 03:39:15 AM

Pointy Tail of Satan: No one needs a semi-auto assault rifle that besides killing an intruder, can just as easily shoot through a wooden wall and kill your neighbour three houses down, or the kid walking down the street. PIstols on the other hand make some sense, at least for home defence purposes.


www.imfdb.org
 
2012-12-25 03:41:05 AM

log_jammin: JSam21: Ok... but what is a "real hunter"?

I can tell you what a real hunter isn't.

It isn't a guy shooting an AR from his pickup at deer by a feeder.


Totally... there should be a law against that.
 
2012-12-25 03:41:32 AM

Pointy Tail of Satan: No one needs a semi-auto assault rifle that besides killing an intruder, can just as easily shoot through a wooden wall and kill your neighbour three houses down, or the kid walking down the street. PIstols on the other hand make some sense, at least for home defence purposes..

And speaking of the 2nd amendment, I wonder how many US gun fanatics are really part of a "well regulated Militia", and not just latent thugs.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

May I point you to District of Columbia v. Heller...
 
2012-12-25 03:41:45 AM
i80.photobucket.com

weirdnewsfiles.com

I'm sure if you're willing to post something from a left wing rag like the Washington Post that cites nothing to support its article nothing will change your mind but would you care to name the army bases where these IDF soldiers are located? Are they wearing bikini BDUs? I have a friend who works for UBS in Zurich, their home office, and when he retired from the army they gave him his Sig Sauer machine gun.

The referendum that the Washington Post was referring to was actually rejected by 56% of the vote and a majority of the cantons last year. Too bad they didn't have the journalistic integrity to mention that.
 
2012-12-25 03:44:05 AM

JSam21: And you can purchase AR variants in .308 which is a round used to hunt deer, elk, and moose... so again what is a real hunter?


.308 is an appropriate caliber for taking larger game. Depending on locality, you can hunt with a semiautomatic rifle, so now you're just arguing how it looks.
 
2012-12-25 03:45:15 AM

simkatu: JSam21: simkatu: CthulhuCalling: simkatu: JSam21: Enigmamf: Terrifying how he was able to kill 26 helpless school children before being subdued, with narry a semiautomatic military-style rifle in sight.

Wait, he wasn't? So... How many DID he kill?

Oh... none?

Huh.

May I ask what makes a rifle or any weapon "military style"

Some guns are meant to kill ducks. Some quail. Others kill deer, elk, bears. Some are designed mainly to kill humans in large numbers. Those are military style weapons. Normal folks don't hunt with AR15s with 100 round magazines.

Hint: nobody hunts with 100 round mags. Weapons that are designed to 'kill humans in large numbers' are reserved almost exclusively for the military. An AR15 is a semiautomatic weapon that happens to have a visual similarity to certain military weapons. You're scared of how something looks.

Nobody hunts with AR15s period. They do sell 100 round magazines. Sometimes even to kooks that plan on killing lots of humans at once. That's the point. Never once heard of a hunter going out to shoot game with his AR. Maybe blast them around for fun or to kill varmints, but not real hunters.

Ok... but what is a "real hunter"?

Ones that don't intend to kill lots of humans with a gun that has been designed specifically designed to kill lots of humans. My family has thousands of acres of hunting ranch property. We run boarding rooms for them during the seasons. Nobody ever brings an AR15 to hunt. Not in 30 years that I know about.


So if I showed up with an AR variant chambered in .308 and good optics to hunt deer... would I not be a real hunter?
 
2012-12-25 03:46:51 AM
At least we all agree that all serious people think that we should screen better for mental illness and criminal past at licensed dealers. Can we start there? NRA seems to think there is absolutely zero we can do to help at the point of sale. I disagree strongly.
 
2012-12-25 03:49:00 AM

OscarTamerz: Switzerland, where the government passes out Sig Sauer pistols and machine guns to the citizens, has a much lower murder rate than the UK with the UK murder rate being about 50% higher. So much for guns causing murders.


Switzerland's number of firearms is 47,500 per 100,000 people. Their firearm homicide rate is 0.52 per 100,000 people. Their overall murder rate is 0.70 per 100,000.

The United Kingdom's number of firearms is 6,200 per 100,000 people. Their firearm homicide rate is 0.04 per 100,000 people. Their overall murder rate is 1.20 per 100,000.

In case anyone was interest.
 
2012-12-25 03:49:43 AM

CthulhuCalling: JSam21: And you can purchase AR variants in .308 which is a round used to hunt deer, elk, and moose... so again what is a real hunter?

.308 is an appropriate caliber for taking larger game. Depending on locality, you can hunt with a semiautomatic rifle, so now you're just arguing how it looks.


Right... but AR variants are made in .308... so the poster that said NO ONE can hunt real game with an AR is wrong.

So now let's get to the real issue... should weapons be outlawed or restricted by caliber?
 
2012-12-25 03:49:59 AM

JSam21: simkatu: JSam21: simkatu: CthulhuCalling: simkatu: JSam21: Enigmamf: Terrifying how he was able to kill 26 helpless school children before being subdued, with narry a semiautomatic military-style rifle in sight.

Wait, he wasn't? So... How many DID he kill?

Oh... none?

Huh.

May I ask what makes a rifle or any weapon "military style"

Some guns are meant to kill ducks. Some quail. Others kill deer, elk, bears. Some are designed mainly to kill humans in large numbers. Those are military style weapons. Normal folks don't hunt with AR15s with 100 round magazines.

Hint: nobody hunts with 100 round mags. Weapons that are designed to 'kill humans in large numbers' are reserved almost exclusively for the military. An AR15 is a semiautomatic weapon that happens to have a visual similarity to certain military weapons. You're scared of how something looks.

Nobody hunts with AR15s period. They do sell 100 round magazines. Sometimes even to kooks that plan on killing lots of humans at once. That's the point. Never once heard of a hunter going out to shoot game with his AR. Maybe blast them around for fun or to kill varmints, but not real hunters.

Ok... but what is a "real hunter"?

Ones that don't intend to kill lots of humans with a gun that has been designed specifically designed to kill lots of humans. My family has thousands of acres of hunting ranch property. We run boarding rooms for them during the seasons. Nobody ever brings an AR15 to hunt. Not in 30 years that I know about.

So if I showed up with an AR variant chambered in .308 and good optics to hunt deer... would I not be a real hunter?


You'd be a kook if you showed up with an AR15. I don't care if you use depleted uranium tipped exploding bullets. That is just kooky.
 
2012-12-25 03:50:39 AM

JSam21: So if I showed up with an AR variant chambered in .308 and good optics to hunt deer... would I not be a real hunter?


No you wouldn't. You'd be a "tacticool" blowhard with too much time and money on his hands.
 
2012-12-25 03:51:43 AM

Pray 4 Mojo:

www.imfdb.org


Too soon! Funny!
 
2012-12-25 03:53:16 AM

simkatu: At least we all agree that all serious people think that we should screen better for mental illness and criminal past at licensed dealers. Can we start there? NRA seems to think there is absolutely zero we can do to help at the point of sale. I disagree strongly.


Well at point of sale... there really isn't much that can be done. Unless you change medical privacy laws in the US no one can know your medical history without your permission. Should we require that people turn over medical records for inspection before being allowed to purchase firearms? I wouldn't mind that actually.
 
2012-12-25 03:53:56 AM

Mrtraveler01: OscarTamerz: Switzerland, where the government passes out Sig Sauer pistols and machine guns to the citizens, has a much lower murder rate than the UK with the UK murder rate being about 50% higher. So much for guns causing murders.

Oh look this lame talking point again:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/mythbusti ng -israel-and-switzerland-are-not-gun-toting-utopias/

Switzerland has also been moving away from having widespread guns. The laws are done canton by canton, which is like a province. Everyone in Switzerland serves in the army, and the cantons used to let you have the guns at home. They've been moving to keeping the guns in depots. That means they're not in the household, which makes sense because the literature shows us that if the gun is in the household, the risk goes up for everyone in the household.

Any other lame debunked talking points you care to share with the rest of the class today?


Civilians still own 47.5 guns per 100 people.
 
2012-12-25 03:54:49 AM

simkatu: So if I showed up with an AR variant chambered in .308 and good optics to hunt deer... would I not be a real hunter?

You'd be a kook if you showed up with an AR15. I don't care if you use depleted uranium tipped exploding bullets. That is just kooky.


If he showed up with an AR chambered for .308, he would have an AR10, which is a completely different beast. He'd probably look ridiculous, but if the locality permitted taking game with a semiautomatic rifle, ain't nothing wrong with it.
 
2012-12-25 03:55:28 AM

JSam21: CthulhuCalling: JSam21: And you can purchase AR variants in .308 which is a round used to hunt deer, elk, and moose... so again what is a real hunter?

.308 is an appropriate caliber for taking larger game. Depending on locality, you can hunt with a semiautomatic rifle, so now you're just arguing how it looks.

Right... but AR variants are made in .308... so the poster that said NO ONE can hunt real game with an AR is wrong.

So now let's get to the real issue... should weapons be outlawed or restricted by caliber?


No. They should hand out 6 inch shells and 14 foot long barrel guns that shoot 13 miles to everyone that isn't a felon. There is no sensible line in the sand so don't make one. Woohoo!
 
2012-12-25 03:55:35 AM

simkatu: JSam21: simkatu: Ready-set: fusillade762: AverageAmericanGuy: Holloway Road sword attack - 1 victim

Injured. Not killed, even.

Really? Do you guys know what IED means? Anyone can build a bomb with a trip to Home Depot and $20.

And if the FBI is watching: God bless America.

Outlaw something that already exists and you get a black market where only the worst have access.

Not unlike abortion. It's sad and awful. And it has to stay legal and safe. Good people shouldn't lose rights because of the dregs. And if it isn't obvious, I'm pro-choice because women deserve the right.

So grenade launchers and stinger missiles for sale at Wal-mart with no restrictions, permits, or background checks? Or do you believe the Constitution allows us to regulate arms?

Of course it does... but an out right banning of guns is stupid.

But those items you've listed can legally be purchased by citizens with proper licensing.

Nobody is proposing any laws to take away our guns. Not even our AR-15s. They are proposing to stop the new sales of assault rifles, but this mythical gun ban of existing guns isn't ever going to happen here. Not without an Amendment or a new Supreme Court. Obviously we can restrict arm sales. You can't just go buy flame throwers, napalm, or whatever else you want with no restrictions.



And the last time our government banned "assault weapons" (Thor's blessed hammer, I hate that term) it had no noticeable impact on the crime rate or firearm homicide rate in our country. It is nothing but an appeasement gesture.
 
2012-12-25 03:55:46 AM

simkatu: At least we all agree that all serious people think that we should screen better for mental illness and criminal past at licensed dealers. Can we start there? NRA seems to think there is absolutely zero we can do to help at the point of sale. I disagree strongly.


Not disagreeing with you...

But how do we go about screening for mental illness? Outside of prior commitments and/or criminal acts... this seems totally impractical.
 
2012-12-25 03:59:29 AM

JSam21: So now let's get to the real issue... should weapons be outlawed or restricted by caliber?


That's never been the issue with the pols or anyone screaming for gun control. They're focusing on magazine capacity and method of operation- mainly due to ignorance and stupidity by confusing any black rifle as an 'assault rifle'. A few of them every now and them get heart palpitations when they discover that people can pick up a Barrett or MacMillan and jump on TV crying about how people can now take down airplanes, but that's pretty rare.
 
2012-12-25 04:00:37 AM

simkatu: JSam21: CthulhuCalling: JSam21: And you can purchase AR variants in .308 which is a round used to hunt deer, elk, and moose... so again what is a real hunter?

.308 is an appropriate caliber for taking larger game. Depending on locality, you can hunt with a semiautomatic rifle, so now you're just arguing how it looks.

Right... but AR variants are made in .308... so the poster that said NO ONE can hunt real game with an AR is wrong.

So now let's get to the real issue... should weapons be outlawed or restricted by caliber?

No. They should hand out 6 inch shells and 14 foot long barrel guns that shoot 13 miles to everyone that isn't a felon. There is no sensible line in the sand so don't make one. Woohoo!


Sim... I'm trying to have a legitimate debate here. I've not once said that everyone should have access to weapons without restrictions. But since an AR10, which is an AR variant chambered in .308, can be used for hunting large game, then why are all AR variants automatically only for killing people? Or is it only the ones that shoot .223 rounds? Do you know what the AR stands for?
 
2012-12-25 04:03:12 AM

Pointy Tail of Satan: No one needs a semi-auto assault rifle that besides killing an intruder, can just as easily shoot through a wooden wall and kill your neighbour three houses down, or the kid walking down the street. PIstols on the other hand make some sense, at least for home defence purposes..

And speaking of the 2nd amendment, I wonder how many US gun fanatics are really part of a "well regulated Militia", and not just latent thugs.


You really do not know a lot about guns, do you?

You do realize that the type of gun from which a bullet is fired has absolutely real impact on force of the bullet, right? You can find semi-automatic civilian hunting rifles that fire the exact same ammunition as these semi-automatic military style rifles. So, fire that bullet from an AR-15 or from a Ruger (either the 5.56x42mm or the .223 Remington) and they will, for the most part, behave the same way. There will be some minor variations in performance, but not enough to make a difference in your ridiculous example of shooting through your neighbor's houses. The main difference between a military style and a civilian semi-automatic rifle is visual. That is it. There might be some minor differences as in better gas feed system, less recoil, etc., but these will vary from gun to gun. Against some civilian rifles and in some categories the military style will do better. In others it will not. Seems to me that you and so many other people are afraid of these guns simply because of the way they look. And that is irrational.
 
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