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(Business Insider)   Mark Cuban: "I would increase taxes and create metrics that triggered declines. If the unemployment rate falls to 6% nationally and the debt/GDP ratio declines to a specified amount, we lower taxes." Ummm...Politics or Sports tab?   (businessinsider.com) divider line 96
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2067 clicks; posted to Sports » on 24 Dec 2012 at 3:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-24 03:48:21 PM  
I just...fark that.
 
2012-12-24 03:48:38 PM  
See Mitt, this is how a businessman wins a presidential election.
 
2012-12-24 03:51:25 PM  
Then we wouldn't need Congress. Bonus.
 
2012-12-24 03:52:59 PM  
Why would tax rates be tied to employment?
 
2012-12-24 03:54:04 PM  
Entertainment, because he's a panelist on SHARK TANK.
 
2012-12-24 03:57:15 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Why would tax rates be tied to employment?


Because low taxes create jobs obviously.  Just look at how many jobs we've gained since the Bush tax cuts!
 
2012-12-24 03:57:25 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Why would tax rates be tied to employment?


It might encourage businesses to hire people full-time and pay their employees enough that they wouldn't need to apply for welfare.
 
2012-12-24 03:57:47 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Why would tax rates be tied to employment?


Apparently companies have all this money they're not using to expand their buisnesses or hire more workers because they don't know what's happening with taxes.

While I'm not sure this exact plan will work, it at least removes uncertainty and promotes hiring.
 
2012-12-24 03:58:24 PM  
I'm no economist, but what if the increased tax contributed to lower unemployment and lowering taxes caused unemployment to go up?
 
2012-12-24 03:58:27 PM  
Wait, isn't it better to raise taxes when we are in a boom and then lower them when we are in recession? Or do I have that backward?
 
2012-12-24 03:59:09 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: Entertainment, because he's a panelist on SHARK TANK.


I've never really watched that show, but my wife had it on the other day and I saw Cuban call out a snake oil dealer for what he was. I found it refreshing.
 
2012-12-24 03:59:27 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Why would tax rates be tied to employment?


Well more people working means more taxes to be taken, right?

Well if you have "enough" people working, then that means you should have "enough" money and take less in taxes. Spread the "cost" of running the country to more people and you should need less from everyone.

/theoretically
 
2012-12-24 04:00:37 PM  

AeAe: I'm no economist, but what if the increased tax contributed to lower unemployment and lowering taxes caused unemployment to go up?


That's why you're not an economist.
 
2012-12-24 04:01:32 PM  
I can see where Cuban's going on this, and I'd allow that it might work out, but there's a little too much risk of a vicious cycle forming for my tastes. It could really go either way.
 
2012-12-24 04:02:07 PM  
"Wait, isn't it better to raise taxes when we are in a boom and then lower them when we are in recession? Or do I have that backward?"

You don't. His approach would be to pour gas on a roaring economy and throw water on a sputtering one. GREAT PLAN MARK
 
2012-12-24 04:03:15 PM  

GAT_00: Because low taxes create jobs obviously. Just look at how many jobs we've gained since the Bush tax cuts!


You make the occasional valid point when you don't pretend things exist in a vacuum.
 
2012-12-24 04:08:56 PM  
There's nothing wrong with our economy that couldn't be solved with more consistent three-point shooting and a deeper bench. Also, luxury boxes.
 
2012-12-24 04:09:31 PM  

GoldSpider: GAT_00: Because low taxes create jobs obviously. Just look at how many jobs we've gained since the Bush tax cuts!

You make the occasional valid point when you don't pretend things exist in a vacuum.


Even before the Great Recession, job growth was slower in the 2000s than any decade since the 30's.  Tax cuts do not create jobs.  Spending creates jobs.
 
2012-12-24 04:10:38 PM  
Should be mentioned par of the reasoning for higher taxes in booms is to pat down deficits occurred in latest down cycle.
 
2012-12-24 04:12:08 PM  

BigJake: "Wait, isn't it better to raise taxes when we are in a boom and then lower them when we are in recession? Or do I have that backward?"

You don't. His approach would be to pour gas on a roaring economy and throw water on a sputtering one. GREAT PLAN MARK


Exactly. Keyes prescribed deficit spending in recessions (or just before them) and increased taxes when things are good. Classical economists prescribed the opposite (the austerity Mark Cuban is promoting).

Remember, austerity (plus hyperinflation) in Germany created Hitler. Keyensian deficit spending defeated Hitler. Which would you prefer?
 
2012-12-24 04:13:29 PM  
BMulligan I've never really watched that show, but my wife had it on the other day and I saw Cuban call out a snake oil dealer for what he was. I found it refreshing.I don't watch that show, but I think I heard about this- if it's what I'm thinking of, it was some variation on those stupid magic sports wristbands, which are also an NBA sponsor, so, extra points there.To address Cuban's point here, he needs to stop using traditional metrics like unemployment rate, which is a lagging indicator of economic performance. He should have hired Hollinger instead of letting him go to the Grizzlies and put him on it, we'd all be using USEER (US Economic Efficiency Ratio) inside of six months.
 
2012-12-24 04:14:20 PM  
it's a good atttempt to maintain homeostasis
 
2012-12-24 04:15:39 PM  

bromah: it's a good atttempt to maintain homeostasis


NTTAWWT.
 
2012-12-24 04:16:12 PM  
Terrible policy. Tax rates should be highest in periods of low unemployment, a strong economy and general prosperity.
 
2012-12-24 04:16:56 PM  

enry: Satanic_Hamster: Why would tax rates be tied to employment?

Apparently companies have all this money they're not using to expand their buisnesses or hire more workers because they don't know what's happening with taxes.

While I'm not sure this exact plan will work, it at least removes uncertainty and promotes hiring.


It is a good idea to tie taxes to unemployment. It definitely promotes hiring. However, even Cuban's fellow Democrats would not go for this

The big myth people have is that the Dems and the GOP are two different parties. They are not. They basically just differ on "who to screw" and "who to reward"
 
2012-12-24 04:18:12 PM  
"Classical economists prescribed the opposite"

No, no they didn't/don't
 
2012-12-24 04:25:17 PM  

btchin trans-am: Remember, austerity (plus hyperinflation) in Germany created Hitler.


Not really -- the Weimar hyperinflation was whipped by 1924. The Great Depression (which actually led to Hitler) was characterized by deflation in both the US and Europe, and part of how Hitler solidified power and increased his popularity was with public works (like the Autobahn) that created jobs. Even Hitler can't just get rich by robbing Jews.
 
2012-12-24 04:26:49 PM  
What am I missing? It is the duty of Federal Reserve (our banking system) to keep unemployment low. That's half the reason they exist. That's why we (the people) give them money to pass out to the other banks. You can accomplish a lot more by moving the prime rate than you can by moving the tax rate. If you have a problem with unemployment, hold the banks accountable.
 
2012-12-24 04:33:48 PM  

spelletrader: Wait, isn't it better to raise taxes when we are in a boom and then lower them when we are in recession? Or do I have that backward?


Well, we aren't in a recession. And we aren't in a depression, either. We're in The Great Suppression.
 
2012-12-24 04:36:26 PM  

Arkanaut: btchin trans-am: Remember, austerity (plus hyperinflation) in Germany created Hitler.

Not really -- the Weimar hyperinflation was whipped by 1924. The Great Depression (which actually led to Hitler) was characterized by deflation in both the US and Europe, and part of how Hitler solidified power and increased his popularity was with public works (like the Autobahn) that created jobs. Even Hitler can't just get rich by robbing Jews.


Nice to see Godwin's law so fast. Maybe we should just make the Boobies in every thread, "Nazis are involved, but who cares."
 
2012-12-24 04:37:20 PM  
But what is his policy on technical foul calls?
 
2012-12-24 04:38:21 PM  

BigJake: "Classical economists prescribed the opposite"

No, no they didn't/don't


' Keynes was deeply critical of the British government's austerity measures during the Great Depression. He believed that budget deficits were a good thing, a product of recessions. He wrote, "For Government borrowing of one kind or another is nature's remedy, so to speak, for preventing business losses from being, in so severe a slump as to present one, so great as to bring production altogether to a standstill." '

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynes#During_the_Great_Depression

Who was the contemporary British government listening to? Not Keynes. Classical Economists.
 
2012-12-24 04:38:29 PM  
At least someone out there can think rationally.
Idea might not work in practice, but its at least it wouldn't be the same old same old,
 
2012-12-24 04:40:37 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: Well if you have "enough" people working, then that means you should have "enough" money and take less in taxes. Spread the "cost" of running the country to more people and you should need less from everyone.

/theoretically


sephjnr.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
... not saying Cuban feels the same way btw
 
2012-12-24 04:41:34 PM  

GAT_00: GoldSpider: GAT_00: Because low taxes create jobs obviously. Just look at how many jobs we've gained since the Bush tax cuts!

You make the occasional valid point when you don't pretend things exist in a vacuum.

Even before the Great Recession, job growth was slower in the 2000s than any decade since the 30's.  Tax cuts do not create jobs.  Spending creates jobs.


Brilliant thinking. Maybe another trillion dollar stimulus will finally pull us out of this recession.
 
2012-12-24 04:42:09 PM  
"If you have a problem with unemployment, hold the banks accountable."

Considering the prime rate is currently 3.25% and you can get mortgages for just a shade more than that there's really not much they can do even if they were in a giving mood
 
2012-12-24 04:42:47 PM  

King Something: Satanic_Hamster: Why would tax rates be tied to employment?

It might encourage businesses to hire people full-time and pay their employees enough that they wouldn't need to apply for welfare.


Considering that Walmart has the something like the 10th largest economy of the world and is very profitable, we can look to them as a good example of how their hiring practices works with the current low Bush taxes...which is make sure that everyone works a half hour just below full-time to prevent giving them full-time benefits.

So yeah, they need even lower taxes, I guess.
 
2012-12-24 04:44:04 PM  

spelletrader: Wait, isn't it better to raise taxes when we are in a boom and then lower them when we are in recession? Or do I have that backward?


Depends whether you prefer a positive feedback loop or a negative feedback loop.

Positive feedback allows for faster exploiting of opportunity, but risks overshoot and collapse; classic boom/bust cycle on steroids. Negative feedback loops tend to give less dramatic growth short term, but more stability long term.
 
2012-12-24 04:47:25 PM  
"Who was the contemporary British government listening to?"

Your post conflated tax policies and spending policies, two very different things. Keynes was a big fan of actively changing spending levels and didn't focus so much on taxation, as his primary focus/thesis was that government spending drove demand, which he believed to be the central question. Classical economists generally believe in low taxes 24/7/365.
 
2012-12-24 04:49:43 PM  
"(the austerity Mark Cuban is promoting)."

Additionally, cutting taxes is not "austerity" and austerity is not what Mark Cuban is proposing. "Austerity" is not defined as "things I don't like."
 
2012-12-24 04:57:01 PM  

Kiinux: GAT_00: GoldSpider: GAT_00: Because low taxes create jobs obviously. Just look at how many jobs we've gained since the Bush tax cuts!

You make the occasional valid point when you don't pretend things exist in a vacuum.

Even before the Great Recession, job growth was slower in the 2000s than any decade since the 30's.  Tax cuts do not create jobs.  Spending creates jobs.

Brilliant thinking. Maybe another trillion dollar stimulus will finally pull us out of this recession.



Well if a second stimulus was geared towards more direct job creation a-la the old public works programs like the WPA that would actually put people to work instead of essentially outsourcing it to the private sector who will just give themselves another massive bonus and call it good, maybe. Debt is now cheaper than it ever has been and shifting the things that impact our GDP harder than debt does makes some sense. Like using the national debt has a giant version of credit card consolidation, where you pay out a higher interest loan with a lower interest one. The one debt becomes "bigger" but you only have one instead of two now and it will cost less in the long run. And if you noticed tacking on that extra debt didn't even begin to shake our credit rating, unlike the hissy fit from the GOP did and possible will again playing chicken with the debt ceiling to secure money at the cost of greater deficit for their corporate overlords.

And I think Mark Cuban was talking about creating a positive reinforcement motive for companies to keep employees. An interesting idea considering the modern reality of the absolute petulance of the ruling class in regard to their fiscal and social responsibility to the nation they claim to love.
 
2012-12-24 04:58:24 PM  

GAT_00: Satanic_Hamster: Why would tax rates be tied to employment?

Because low taxes create jobs obviously.  Just look at how many jobs we've gained since the Bush tax cuts!

 
2012-12-24 04:59:22 PM  
Why in the world would ANYONE want higher taxes?, and if you do it's simple send the government more of YOUR money, just keep your hands out of my pocket
 
2012-12-24 05:00:15 PM  
This is a terrible freaking idea - it's the exact opposite of what you should be doing. You want to raise taxes in good times and lower them in bad, not vice versa.
 
2012-12-24 05:02:00 PM  
We should strip tax dodgers of their citizenship and airlift them to the Mexican border.
 
2012-12-24 05:02:08 PM  

burning_bridge: ...Brilliant thinking. Maybe another trillion dollar stimulus will finally pull us out of this recession.

Well if a second stimulus was geared towards more direct job creation a-la the old public works programs like the WPA that would actually put people to work instead of essentially outsourcing it to the private sector who will just give themselves another massive bonus and call it good, maybe...


Republicans had a screaming "Socialist!" fit in 1933 when this was done, imagine what the 'baggers would do now?
 
2012-12-24 05:05:07 PM  

maxalt: Why in the world would ANYONE want higher taxes?, and if you do it's simple send the government more of YOUR money, just keep your hands out of my pocket


Christmas trolls are the Grinchiest.
 
2012-12-24 05:05:56 PM  
"The one debt becomes "bigger" but you only have one instead of two now and it will cost less in the long run."

If it wasn't for the fact that every piece of said debt is going to be rolled in the future instead of paid off you might be right
 
2012-12-24 05:05:58 PM  
Is he Cuban?

/Sorry I had to
 
2012-12-24 05:08:15 PM  

Pincy: maxalt: Why in the world would ANYONE want higher taxes?, and if you do it's simple send the government more of YOUR money, just keep your hands out of my pocket

Christmas trolls are the Grinchiest.


I remember the days when trolls didn't copypasta.
 
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