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(Rochester Democrat and Chronicle)   Shooter of Webster NY Firemen identified, it was a 62 year old white male previously jailed for beating his grandmother to death with a hammer. Pro and anti hammer comments to the right   (democratandchronicle.com) divider line 37
    More: Followup, white male, hammers, volunteer firefighters, grandmother, Rose Spengler  
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5702 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2012 at 6:27 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-12-24 07:12:30 PM  
6 votes:

hbk72777: Aren't the anti gun people the same who want to do away with jails and capitol punishment? Had we kept this asshole locked up, fried his ass, he wouldn't have been able to do this.

You can't be a bleeding heart then biatch when shiat like this happens.


Um, no, almost nobody wants to do away with jails. Wanting to abolish capital punishment (Which is barbaric) doesn't mean we don't want murderers and such locked up. Capital punishment is just the desire for revenge, which should NOT be part of the criminal justice system in any way, shape or form. Plus, far too many innocent people are killed based on faulty evidence. Furthermore the legal costs associated with death row are higher than the costs required to keep a prisoner in jail for life. And if you cut corners to save costs, more innocent people end up dead at the hands of the state.

If right-wing ideology was actually consistent, giving the state power to execute people would be the last thing they'd want. Second to last would be 'making it easier and faster for the state to execute you'.
2012-12-24 05:35:43 PM  
6 votes:
How about we stop publishing their names and giving these farking assholes the publicity/notoriety they crave; and have all news media refer to shooters as "the farking asshole who ..."?
2012-12-24 05:23:01 PM  
4 votes:

Coco LaFemme: He beat his grandmother to death with a hammer.

Why wasn't he still in prison?


They have to make room for all the people busted with a few ounces of pot.
2012-12-24 06:53:48 PM  
3 votes:

NewportBarGuy: Coco LaFemme: Why wasn't he still in prison?

Obviously he was rehabilitated. Duh!


Prison in this country is not about rehab. It's about warehousing and slave labor.
2012-12-24 06:33:59 PM  
3 votes:
Debate will rage... massacres will continue
2012-12-24 04:11:57 PM  
3 votes:

Diogenes: RsTFA

So....is he in custody?  Dead?  WTF?


Self inflicted gunshot wound to the head

//should have gotten the death penalty after he beat his grandmother to death
2012-12-24 09:42:20 PM  
2 votes:
Infernalist: The only thing of value that I learned from this article is that even those convicted of brutal murder can get their hands on lethal weaponry without so much as a hint of a problem.

The solution, obviously, is MOAR GUNS

way south: The alternative is to prevent you from buying a gun and pretend that this act disarmed him.

/So you can turn off your alarm system and sleep with the doors unlocked, because the solution to crime is in the bag.
/Even if the elimination of guns was possible, I suspect that a guy who murders his own family member with a hammer will find a way to make do.

Mrtraveler01: I think the question we need to ask is how did he get a gun and what c could have been done to prevent that?

way south: Its a fair question.
I'm more curious how he left the corrections system with a serious flaw in his character left uncorrected.

Arguing about the weapon only changes the hypothetical bodycount. The problem is he decided to commit such a crime.


Instead of point and click, 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead with no more effort than a trigger pull, he would have had to come after them howling with a hammer. Which probably would have had one firefighter injured, if that.

Look at it this way, reduce the number of guns in society and you weed out the lazy and homicidal. The motivated and homicidal will then have to expend imagination and physical effort, actually engaging in hand to hand combat in order to murder. And boy howdy, hand to hand combat can be pretty tiring, let me tell you what. Much more taxing than point-and-click murder.
2012-12-24 08:01:04 PM  
2 votes:
The only thing of value that I learned from this article is that even those convicted of brutal murder can get their hands on lethal weaponry without so much as a hint of a problem.

The solution, obviously, is MOAR GUNS
2012-12-24 06:39:36 PM  
2 votes:
It's ok. Just tell the families of the fire fighters that a gun didn't kill their loved one. I'm sure they'll understand and have a totally awesome Christmas planning a funeral.
2012-12-24 05:18:43 PM  
2 votes:
Should have stuck a needle in his arm the first go round.
2012-12-24 03:54:22 PM  
2 votes:
He beat his grandmother to death with a hammer.

Why wasn't he still in prison?
2012-12-24 03:16:30 PM  
2 votes:
Sure am glad he was allowed to buy/keep his gun, depending on when the gun purchase happened.
2012-12-25 07:56:34 AM  
1 votes:
Coco LaFemme: He beat his grandmother to death with a hammer.

Why wasn't he still in prison still swinging from a rope?


FTFY
2012-12-25 12:14:56 AM  
1 votes:

Benjamin Orr: Name one instance of prohibition that has worked in the US


The prohibition of slavery has worked pretty well, no?
2012-12-24 11:04:45 PM  
1 votes:
JungleBoogie: I'm looking to make it as hard for the murderer as possible. If he's gotta use his imagination, if he's gotta expend physical effort rather than just do point-and-click murder, it's likely he will injure and kill fewer people. I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking for mitigation. I'm looking for improvement. Because right now, gun rights advocates are fighting to hold the status quo. To me, it's like after a plane crash, and the NTSB identifies several failure points. And then the airplane manufacturing industry launches a full PR blitz to avoid making any changes.

That's what we're dealing with right now.

Kit Fister: No, more realistically what we're dealing with right now is the airplane industry responding to actual faults while pointing out changes to other systems won't fix some of the goddamn problems that precipitated the crash, like the pilot being a raving lunatic or being suicidal and wanting to drive the plane into a mountain.

You act like we don't give a shiat, we do. We just want changes that would actually, you know, fix the problems that precipitated the events and address the behavior instead of using them as fodder to drive pointless, knee jerk legislation that would not have prevented this in the first place.


Ah yes, the "root causes."

You know what the root cause of Newton was, and of today's multiple shooting was? A homicidal individual was able to get a firearm.

It's not conceptually complicated. There are highly organized moneyed interests and their dupes that have bought into the industry's PR campaign who are fighting to maintain the status quo while they obfuscate and pursue "root causes" like OJ pursued the "real killers." While they buy time and hope the whole thing blows over.

I'm dealing with reality, stripping away the obfuscatory BS: the Catch 22 is the more firearms in the hands of the law abiding, the more firearms in the hands of criminals. That's a fact. It derives from the "Criminals don't obey laws!" cry. That's right they don't. And the more firearms that are out there, the more firearms they are going to get.
2012-12-24 09:50:19 PM  
1 votes:

SquiggsIN: But, I'm not willing to say that banning guns will ever be the answer. You know what the opponent is playing with or POSSIBLY playing with. We know that there are already MILLIONS of guns in the world and that criminals may already have them. Unless you can guarantee that every gun in the country is going to be gone what's the point of demanding we get rid of a fraction of them?


If there were a 100 guns in the country instead of a hundred million, they would be harder to come by, and as a result, fewer criminals would be able to obtain them and use them for murder. If weapons became rarer, they would become more valuable, kept carefully cleaned and oiled in secure safes, rather than cavalierly stored and easily stolen.

As I've noted, the Catch 22 of firearms is that the more firearms in the hands of the law abiding, the more firearms in the hands of the criminals.
2012-12-24 09:21:27 PM  
1 votes:
Here's what I keep hearing:

1) You can't restrict access cause 2nd Amendment says we can't and any attempt to do so is unAmerican.

2) There are too many guns in circulation, so we can't possibly get them all, so why bother getting any of them?

3) We need MOAR GUNS, that'll fix the problem.

Honestly, it's enough to make a civilized man sick to his stomach.
2012-12-24 09:09:10 PM  
1 votes:

kombat_unit: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Benjamin Orr: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Benjamin Orr: Except that other family members/friends have disputed the sister-in-laws story. The cops even searched all of the shooting range check in logs and could not find her or his names anywhere.

Cite.

Link

Logs for one range, for the past year.

Clearly not comprehensive, but I'm pretty sure you have a link to all the other ranges she was training him at?


I don't really give a sh*t. Apparently he got good enough to kill twenty-six on his own.

I'm more concerned with his access to the weapons.
2012-12-24 08:57:07 PM  
1 votes:
It must have been...

www.bookwormsapple.com
2012-12-24 08:52:21 PM  
1 votes:

way south: She opens the safe to clean, turns her back and gets blindsided.


Shot her in bed, possibly in her sleep.
2012-12-24 08:44:47 PM  
1 votes:

SquiggsIN: So someone who by law wasn't allowed to have a gun committed a mass shooting again.

Why do gun control advocates think that restricting guns is going to keep people like this from getting guns? He obviously, as a felon, was able to get a weapon. Putting restrictions on legal gun ownership just puts law-abiding citizens at a disadvantage against the nutcases that have no intention of following whatever restrictions are in place anyway.


This is why I'm tired of people calling for a debate or dialogue on gun control. One side of the 'debate' has the reasoning of a three year old. When my toddler doesn't want to go to bed I don't debate her, or start a dialogue. I put her to bed. Time for the adults in this country to make and enforce a bedtime. Gun nuts using the worst analogies and hypotheticals to ensure they can keep their toys aren't worthy of a debate.

If there weren't access to guns by people who currently qualify to own one, no criminal would be able to steal that legal gun. Probably bought it with no paperwork at a gun show or through a straw purchase anyways. Or stole it from his sister who could legally own it. If thieves can steal guns from responsible gun owners, they're not really responsible gun owners are they?
2012-12-24 08:20:36 PM  
1 votes:
Thank God for the Assault Hammer ban.

www.homeland-security-center.bg

Only the government is allowed to have them.
2012-12-24 07:25:42 PM  
1 votes:
media.tumblr.com
2012-12-24 07:11:37 PM  
1 votes:

Amos Quito: GAT_00: Sure am glad he was allowed to buy/keep his gun, depending on when the gun purchase happened.

Yeah, I'm sure he bought it - all nice and legal.


The firearms Catch 22: More guns in the hands of the law abiding means more guns in the hands of criminals.
2012-12-24 06:59:43 PM  
1 votes:
www.nailgundepot.com

Just what purpose does this serve anyway? These things come with high-capacity magazines and are designed to fire a nail as quickly as the user can pull the trigger; some even have drums. A drum of nails?! Why can't you carpentry nuts understand that a manual hammer-and-nail combo is adequate for your uses, or does shiat like this help stroke your damaged little ego?
2012-12-24 06:57:01 PM  
1 votes:

skinink: On the other hand the gunmakers will all have record profits in the year ending 2013!


Sure, because everyone's convinced that guns are going to be taken away.

OTOH, there isn't any kind of run on psychiatric help.
2012-12-24 06:54:56 PM  
1 votes:

Evil Canadian: Beyond all the rhetoric and flamewars, a bit of further reading on why this guy was out of prison suggests he was originally charged with 2nd degree murder but pleaded out as manslaughter (wasn't a planned thing apparently). He got an appropriate sentence, behaved himself well enough in prison to get paroled, didn't reoffend during his parole period, which ended 6 years ago and has generally kept quietly to himself since he was released. He did his time, which was totally appropriate for the charge he pled, did his parole and lived quietly for the 14 years since his release.

It's not like he was a walking advert for a crazy about to torch the neighbourhood and shoot him some firemen.

What the fark happened to set this off - I really don't understand at all.

/Whether the prosecution and judge should have accepted the plea to a lesser charge is another discussion altogether.


With his record, please explain how he was able to acquire one or more firearms.
2012-12-24 06:52:24 PM  
1 votes:
it was a 62 year old white male previously jailed for beating his grandmother to death with a hammer.

Reminds me of this guy. Alan Shore must have gotten him out of jail.
2012-12-24 06:33:11 PM  
1 votes:
relevant

web.donga.ac.kr
2012-12-24 06:32:56 PM  
1 votes:
Too many guns.
2012-12-24 06:31:40 PM  
1 votes:
jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com

/hot, like a fire
2012-12-24 06:16:46 PM  
1 votes:

Therion: How about we stop publishing their names and giving these farking assholes the publicity/notoriety they crave; and have all news media refer to shooters as "the farking asshole who ..."?


The notoriety they get to fap to after they're dead? That notoriety?
2012-12-24 05:10:53 PM  
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org

But video games don't cause violence.  Got it.
2012-12-24 04:03:21 PM  
1 votes:
And what law-abiding citizen did he get his gun from?
2012-12-24 03:43:20 PM  
1 votes:
When all you have is a hammer...
2012-12-24 03:08:16 PM  
1 votes:
In later statements to police, Spengler admitted he'd hit his legally blind grandmother several times with the handle of a hammer during a violent argument over her going into the basement, where he'd warned her not to go for her own safety.

Nice. Out of concern for her safety, he kills her. On the positive side, I imagine he could explain the drug laws to us.

And I blame that old "If I had a Hammer" song. It was only a matter of time.
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-24 03:05:32 PM  
1 votes:
It's good that we have guns to keep people like that away from hammers.
 
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