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(Boing Boing)   Gary Gygax was so Christian he was against X-mas   (boingboing.net) divider line 144
    More: Weird, Gary Gygax  
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6392 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Dec 2012 at 11:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-24 09:41:34 AM
Seems he took it seriously. Few people do.
 
2012-12-24 09:55:45 AM
Most Christians don't actually read the bible, and the ones that do cherry pick the hell out of it.

Christmas is a secular seasonal holiday now for the most part anyway.
 
2012-12-24 10:12:39 AM
Those well-known non-Christians called "Jehovah's Witnesses" are pretty anti-Christmas for the same reasons.
 
2012-12-24 10:26:26 AM

St_Francis_P: Seems he took it seriously. Few people do.


Which is kind of funny, considering the Chick tract and other fundie propaganda pamphlets about D&D.
 
2012-12-24 10:34:16 AM
Of course his savior wasn't born on that day. Still, I'll bet he celebrated Newmass. Christmas cards probably couldn't get past the ward on his door. Heironeans really need to lighten up.
 
2012-12-24 10:53:00 AM
Failed give a shiat roll.
 
2012-12-24 11:04:29 AM
Sometimes he took things too seriously, sacrificing fun for accuracy.

which kind of explains the 1st edition rules....
 
2012-12-24 11:08:48 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-24 11:14:17 AM
Jesus rolled to save.
 
2012-12-24 11:18:02 AM
Gygax hated rules lawyers that weren't him.
 
2012-12-24 11:19:58 AM
The first real 'murikans, the Puritans, didn't celebrate Christmas either right?

Doesn't seem that odd to me.
 
2012-12-24 11:22:17 AM
"From an early age, Gygax hunted and was a target-shooter with both bow and gun.[65] He was also an avid gun collector, and at various times owned a variety of rifles, shotguns, and handguns.[66]"

Where in the Bible does it command that?
 
2012-12-24 11:23:54 AM
Sooooooo he's right about each point.

/but let's buy some more shiat, worship Mammon and call it religion.
 
2012-12-24 11:25:00 AM
Jesus saves. The rest of the party takes full damage.
 
2012-12-24 11:29:43 AM

drake113: Jesus saves. The rest of the party takes full damage.


I wonder what Jesus's THACO was....?
 
2012-12-24 11:30:27 AM

drake113: Jesus saves. The rest of the party takes full damage.


It's okay, that's why they brought a cleric along.
 
2012-12-24 11:31:37 AM
Whooopity do. My brothers BiL is the same way but he is also a bi polar nutter. But hey the rest of us need a nice holiday to celebrate and spoil our nieces and nephews.

/Built soooooooo many lego sets this weekend
 
2012-12-24 11:32:36 AM

Arkanaut: drake113: Jesus saves. The rest of the party takes full damage.

It's okay, that's why they brought a cleric along.


which is good, because the best the druid can do is reincarnate you.  have you ever SEEN the 1st edition reincarnate table!?
 
2012-12-24 11:34:59 AM
img5.imageshack.us
/Relevant
 
2012-12-24 11:39:59 AM

unlikely: Those well-known non-Christians called "Jehovah's Witnesses" are pretty anti-Christmas for the same reasons.


I came for this. Leaving satisfied.
 
2012-12-24 11:42:18 AM

Weaver95: which is good, because the best the druid can do is reincarnate you. have you ever SEEN the 1st edition reincarnate table!?


Okay, let's roll for reincarnation for the halfling...

Hey, congrats, you're a centaur!

Now, for the elf...

...you're a gorilla.

Yeah, 2nd ed. wasn't much better.

Sadly, or perhaps happily, I had the Expert Rules book 2 in arm's reach to reference the tables, since it's been a while.
 
2012-12-24 11:43:49 AM

Weaver95: Sometimes he took things too seriously, sacrificing fun for accuracy.

which kind of explains the 1st edition rules....


AD&D was considered a "light and fluffy" game for its time. You want something horrifyingly complicated in the name of accuracy, check out Rolemaster.
 
2012-12-24 11:43:57 AM
was he using the three and a half rule set?
 
2012-12-24 11:44:47 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: "From an early age, Gygax hunted and was a target-shooter with both bow and gun.[65] He was also an avid gun collector, and at various times owned a variety of rifles, shotguns, and handguns.[66]"

Where in the Bible does it command that?


Jesus was the holiest man to ever slap iron! He killed for your sins. (Remington 3:16)
 
2012-12-24 11:46:01 AM

HeartBurnKid: Weaver95: Sometimes he took things too seriously, sacrificing fun for accuracy.

which kind of explains the 1st edition rules....

AD&D was considered a "light and fluffy" game for its time. You want something horrifyingly complicated in the name of accuracy, check out Rolemaster.


ah Rolemaster...the game by accountants, FOR accountants.  the crit charts were still hilarious to read tho.
 
2012-12-24 11:47:03 AM

Weaver95: Sometimes he took things too seriously, sacrificing fun for accuracy.

which kind of explains the 1st edition rules....


Accuracy? What's with the AD&D strength bonus progression:

Str 16 = +0 to hit/+1 damage
Str 17 = +1 to hit/+1 damage
Str 18 = +1 to hit/+2 damage
------------------------------------
Str 19 = +3 to hit/+7 damage
Str 20 = +3 to hit/+8 damage
Str 21 = +4 to hit/+9 damage

Yeah, I know the fighter "exceptional strength" table, but why shoehorn all that in between 18 and 19?

Also, wandering harlot table:

1.bp.blogspot.com
I particularly enjoy the juxtaposition of "brazen strumpet" and "haughty courtesan" in the table, to match the preceding descriptive paragraph.
 
2012-12-24 11:49:45 AM
Yes, but what about Kevin Siembieda's stance on the matter?
 
2012-12-24 11:52:56 AM

Aboleth: Yes, but what about Kevin Siembieda's stance on the matter?


I love Palladium games but meeting Kevin years ago was disallusioning to say the least. Eric Wujick was cool as hell, may he rest in peace.
 
2012-12-24 11:56:48 AM

Aboleth: Yes, but what about Kevin Siembieda's stance on the matter?


it probably involves rail guns.
 
2012-12-24 11:57:11 AM

abb3w: St_Francis_P: Seems he took it seriously. Few people do.

Which is kind of funny, considering the Chick tract and other fundie pagan propaganda pamphlets about D&D.


FTFY, seriously those peopel worship power and money, not God.
 
2012-12-24 11:58:43 AM

tzzhc4: Aboleth: Yes, but what about Kevin Siembieda's stance on the matter?

I love Palladium games but meeting Kevin years ago was disallusioning to say the least. Eric Wujick was cool as hell, may he rest in peace.


Should be disillusioning and Eric's last name is Wujcik.
 
2012-12-24 12:00:33 PM

Sid_6.7: Weaver95: which is good, because the best the druid can do is reincarnate you. have you ever SEEN the 1st edition reincarnate table!?

Okay, let's roll for reincarnation for the halfling...

Hey, congrats, you're a centaur!

Now, for the elf...

...you're a gorilla.

Yeah, 2nd ed. wasn't much better.

Sadly, or perhaps happily, I had the Expert Rules book 2 in arm's reach to reference the tables, since it's been a while.


It got more fun if a wild Mage cast the spell; there was a chance for them to control the result. My Kender became a Fremlin!
 
2012-12-24 12:01:14 PM

Weaver95: Aboleth: Yes, but what about Kevin Siembieda's stance on the matter?

it probably involves rail guns.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-24 12:03:34 PM
Who the fark cares?
 
2012-12-24 12:04:37 PM

Exception Collection: My Kender became a Fremlin!


Arguably an improvement.
 
2012-12-24 12:06:03 PM

Weaver95: Aboleth: Yes, but what about Kevin Siembieda's stance on the matter?

it probably involves rail guns.


The Rifts rulebook is painful to read.

At the very beginning, in the middle of character creation rules, they start discussing very exacting critical hit rules.

The setting is really great, but the system is iffy.
 
2012-12-24 12:06:04 PM

Sid_6.7: Exception Collection: My Kender became a Fremlin!

Arguably an improvement.


Gods, I hated kender.  they made great kraken bait tho.
 
2012-12-24 12:06:39 PM

HeartBurnKid: Weaver95: Sometimes he took things too seriously, sacrificing fun for accuracy.

which kind of explains the 1st edition rules....

AD&D was considered a "light and fluffy" game for its time. You want something horrifyingly complicated in the name of accuracy, check out Rolemaster.


Amateur.
HârnMaster
 
2012-12-24 12:17:00 PM
If Christ came back from the dead does that making him an undead class of some sort? Are there undead clerics.
 
2012-12-24 12:18:36 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
/lol
 
2012-12-24 12:23:48 PM

delathi: HeartBurnKid: Weaver95: Sometimes he took things too seriously, sacrificing fun for accuracy.

which kind of explains the 1st edition rules....

AD&D was considered a "light and fluffy" game for its time. You want something horrifyingly complicated in the name of accuracy, check out Rolemaster.

Amateur.
HârnMaster


Everybody knows that FATAL (NSFW or sanity) is the most hardcore and complex RPG out there.
 
2012-12-24 12:27:33 PM

delathi: HeartBurnKid: Weaver95: Sometimes he took things too seriously, sacrificing fun for accuracy.

which kind of explains the 1st edition rules....

AD&D was considered a "light and fluffy" game for its time. You want something horrifyingly complicated in the name of accuracy, check out Rolemaster.

Amateur.
HârnMaster


FATAL anyone?
 
2012-12-24 12:29:23 PM

Sid_6.7: Exception Collection: My Kender became a Fremlin!

Arguably an improvement.


I first read that as "femlin"

c48743.r43.cf3.rackcdn.com

Still an improvement.
 
2012-12-24 12:34:24 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Who the fark cares?


The last thing I care about is something from Boing Boing.
 
2012-12-24 12:35:58 PM
Gygax should have just rolled up a druid instead.
 
2012-12-24 12:42:34 PM
Gamma World shall not be forgotten.
 
2012-12-24 12:46:53 PM

2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.


nor shall star frontiers!
 
2012-12-24 12:50:46 PM

Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!


Any love for Alternity?
 
2012-12-24 12:52:21 PM
Now I know Gary's mom's address in Lake Geneva!

/I keed
//Anybody remember "Top Secret"?
 
2012-12-24 12:57:46 PM

Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!


Still have all my old Star Frontiers stuff. First game system I DM'd. Not a bad little system at all, and the setting was fantastic. I've actually got notes for a full on d20 conversion I've been working on, not just the snippet that was in the d20 Future book

Also, just bought a ton of Top Secret/SI material for my collection

Finally, slightly on topic, one of the best quests in Dungeons & Dragons Online was a dungeon romp narrated by Gary Gygax himself. Not sure if that quest is still around in DDO, though. Still, it was awesome hearing Gygax describe the rooms and encounters.
 
2012-12-24 12:59:11 PM
Somehow I'm not surprised that the guy who condemned two generations of nerds to permanent virginity is a joyless pedant.
 
2012-12-24 01:01:33 PM

Sid_6.7: Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!

Any love for Alternity?


only for the star*drive setting.  I didn't like the rest.
 
2012-12-24 01:06:10 PM

Weaver95: Sid_6.7: Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!

Any love for Alternity?

only for the star*drive setting. I didn't like the rest.


I mostly liked the mechanics. The different levels of success, the health system, the step bonus/penalty involving rolling more dice. And they managed to fit a hell of a lot of game system content in the PHB, like the psychic powers, implants, the computer stuff, etc.
 
2012-12-24 01:09:05 PM
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
Worst Christmas card ever
/wanted to find him dressed in DM outfit
//I failed at the Googles
 
2012-12-24 01:10:23 PM

Sid_6.7: Weaver95: Sid_6.7: Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!

Any love for Alternity?

only for the star*drive setting. I didn't like the rest.

I mostly liked the mechanics. The different levels of success, the health system, the step bonus/penalty involving rolling more dice. And they managed to fit a hell of a lot of game system content in the PHB, like the psychic powers, implants, the computer stuff, etc.


I really liked the star*drive setting.  I wish they'd actually gotten a chance to play out the war to it's logical conclusion.  I believe one or two of the writers DID put together the notes of where they intended to go with the metaplot and put it out online via bittorrent but once that was done, the setting kinda died.  damn shame too, since I loved the big bad aliens they'd thought up.
 
2012-12-24 01:16:57 PM

Weaver95: Sid_6.7: Weaver95: Sid_6.7: Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!

Any love for Alternity?

only for the star*drive setting. I didn't like the rest.

I mostly liked the mechanics. The different levels of success, the health system, the step bonus/penalty involving rolling more dice. And they managed to fit a hell of a lot of game system content in the PHB, like the psychic powers, implants, the computer stuff, etc.

I really liked the star*drive setting.  I wish they'd actually gotten a chance to play out the war to it's logical conclusion.  I believe one or two of the writers DID put together the notes of where they intended to go with the metaplot and put it out online via bittorrent but once that was done, the setting kinda died.  damn shame too, since I loved the big bad aliens they'd thought up.


Wow can't believe there's people out there who also played Gamma World and Star Frontiers. Wish they would do something (MMO or regular game) with those systems. They were great fun, especially Star Frontiers.

/Also had a lot of fun with Boot Hill, a western RPG
 
2012-12-24 01:17:39 PM
oi45.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-24 01:21:37 PM
Who in the hell is Gary Gygax and why am I supposed to care?
 
2012-12-24 01:22:37 PM

largedon:
Wow can't believe there's people out there who also played Gamma World and Star Frontiers. Wish they would do something (MMO or regular game) with those systems. They were great fun, especially Star Frontiers.


Be careful what you wish for - they relauched Gamma World a little while back. The results were not pretty.
 
2012-12-24 01:22:58 PM

Weaver95: Sid_6.7: Exception Collection: My Kender became a Fremlin!

Arguably an improvement.

Gods, I hated kender.


They're great for being bags of holding. You just have to confront them on what you need and they'll produce it along with some wild excuse. Only time it back fires is when they hide their stolen goods in the Gully Dwarf's bag of goodies.

/Gully Dwarf always aged his midnight snacks for at least a month
 
2012-12-24 01:23:52 PM
orgtheory.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-24 01:26:41 PM

Tad_Waxpole: Who in the hell is Gary Gygax and why am I supposed to care?


He invented a "game" that formalizes obsessive-compulsive behavior, and it gave an entire generation Asperger's Syndrome. Unsurprisingly, he appears to be an asshole.
 
2012-12-24 01:29:04 PM

jso2897: Tad_Waxpole: Who in the hell is Gary Gygax and why am I supposed to care?

He invented a "game" that formalizes obsessive-compulsive behavior, and it gave an entire generation Asperger's Syndrome. Unsurprisingly, he appears to be an asshole.


...and yet the gamers on this discussion thread are better socially adjusted than you are.

hmm.  curious.
 
2012-12-24 01:29:50 PM

farkeruk: Jesus rolled to save.


Okay, that was funny.
 
2012-12-24 01:29:53 PM

Raharu: Most Christians don't actually read the bible, and the ones that do cherry pick the hell out of it.

Christmas is a secular seasonal holiday now for the most part anyway.


Then why is it always observed on the 25th?

If the goal is to give everyone a winter day off why is it not observed on the second to last Monday or Friday of the month of December no matter when the Christian holiday of Christmas falls.

Christmas is clearly a religious holiday and as such has no right to be included in the Federal holiday calendar. It should be removed.
 
2012-12-24 01:31:01 PM

Tad_Waxpole: Who in the hell is Gary Gygax and why am I supposed to care?


If you do not know, then you should not be in the Geek section.
 
2012-12-24 01:31:52 PM

Sid_6.7: Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!

Any love for Alternity?


Yes! The Alternity version of the Gamma World rules is the best version to date. I had high hopes for the 4e version of Gamma World, what sucked for D&D would have worked great in Gamma World, sadly they went with that stupid random card mechanic and dumbed down 4e rules.
 
2012-12-24 01:36:07 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Sid_6.7: Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!

Any love for Alternity?

Yes! The Alternity version of the Gamma World rules is the best version to date. I had high hopes for the 4e version of Gamma World, what sucked for D&D would have worked great in Gamma World, sadly they went with that stupid random card mechanic and dumbed down 4e rules.


Paizo read the gamer market correctly and, as a result, has largely prospered.  I hear things are not going as well over at WoTC these days.
 
2012-12-24 01:36:39 PM

Tad_Waxpole: Who in the hell is Gary Gygax and why am I supposed to care?


i.imgur.com
Sports tab is to your left. Go play some fantasy football.
 
2012-12-24 01:36:53 PM
And to think all those Christian nutters in the 1980's were screaming their idiot heads off about how D&D was a tool of Satan.
 
2012-12-24 01:37:21 PM

Weaver95: jso2897: Tad_Waxpole: Who in the hell is Gary Gygax and why am I supposed to care?

He invented a "game" that formalizes obsessive-compulsive behavior, and it gave an entire generation Asperger's Syndrome. Unsurprisingly, he appears to be an asshole.

...and yet the gamers on this discussion thread are better socially adjusted than you are.

hmm.  curious.


Most of us are married, with kids, holding down jobs that pay above 50K and few, like myself, well into six figures. We have never stopped being kids playing lets pretend, we just codified it to settle disputes with dice, and have never lost that sense of wonder or joy at just imagining slaying a dragon, being a gun slinging zombie killing badass, discovering an ancient ray gun in a post apocalyptic city or stomping some orks in shiny new power armor.

Hell we are passing our love of all things geek along to our children. If you have never seen some kids get really excited at some guys and gals in costume dressed up as Mario, Luigi, and Princess Peach GenCon, well then you have missed an expression of sheer joy and delight.
 
2012-12-24 01:37:30 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Yes! The Alternity version of the Gamma World rules is the best version to date. I had high hopes for the 4e version of Gamma World, what sucked for D&D would have worked great in Gamma World, sadly they went with that stupid random card mechanic and dumbed down 4e rules.


Yeah, 4e is a steaming pile of WoW-based sh*t.

When I DM it's something along the lines of 3.25e.

/in before "but Pathfinder...!"
 
2012-12-24 01:40:11 PM
farm8.staticflickr.com
Farktography #343: "Dungeons & Dragons" by Ennuipoet * FreeVerse Photography, on Flickr

/roll your Saving Throw biatches!
 
2012-12-24 01:40:29 PM

Parthenogenetic: I particularly enjoy the juxtaposition of "brazen strumpet" and "haughty courtesan" in the table, to match the preceding descriptive paragraph.


I see 'Slovenly Trull' and can only think of Frank Zappa's Goblin Girl. She's a goblin girl and she can gobble it all...
 
2012-12-24 01:42:29 PM

Ennuipoet: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 640x427]
Farktography #343: "Dungeons & Dragons" by Ennuipoet * FreeVerse Photography, on Flickr

/roll your Saving Throw biatches!


if you're playing Tomb of Horrors...don't bother with saves.
 
2012-12-24 01:49:30 PM

Sid_6.7: Slaves2Darkness: Yes! The Alternity version of the Gamma World rules is the best version to date. I had high hopes for the 4e version of Gamma World, what sucked for D&D would have worked great in Gamma World, sadly they went with that stupid random card mechanic and dumbed down 4e rules.

Yeah, 4e is a steaming pile of WoW-based sh*t.


No it is not WoW based. but if all you have ever played is 3.crap (seriously if you compare the editions, 3.x is the worst one in the games history, even Gygax said he did not like it) you would not know that. The things people claim it took from WoW (and other MMORPGs) are all things that MMORPGS took from the table top community. They are all things that were there since the 80's maybe 70's. WotC just decided to be straight about it in 4E to make designing the game easier.
 
2012-12-24 01:54:07 PM

sjmcc13: Sid_6.7: Slaves2Darkness: Yes! The Alternity version of the Gamma World rules is the best version to date. I had high hopes for the 4e version of Gamma World, what sucked for D&D would have worked great in Gamma World, sadly they went with that stupid random card mechanic and dumbed down 4e rules.

Yeah, 4e is a steaming pile of WoW-based sh*t.

No it is not WoW based. but if all you have ever played is 3.crap (seriously if you compare the editions, 3.x is the worst one in the games history, even Gygax said he did not like it) you would not know that. The things people claim it took from WoW (and other MMORPGs) are all things that MMORPGS took from the table top community. They are all things that were there since the 80's maybe 70's. WotC just decided to be straight about it in 4E to make designing the game easier.


no, i'm sorry but...that is completely wrong.  4th edition D&D feels like and plays like a table top version of an MMO.  same mechanics, same cooldowns, same party make up (tank, healer, ranged DPS, melee DPS and a hybrid class for support role).  pathfinder is probably the best evolution of 3.x rules.  it's clear, works well, and scales well up to level 20.  I especially liked how they handled sorcerers in pathfinder.  and the newer classes (alchemist, gunslinger, witch to name a few) fit well for people who want to play a non-standard game.
 
2012-12-24 02:00:24 PM
Merry Christmas and a....

gotgame.com

...Happy New Year!
 
2012-12-24 02:02:03 PM

groppet: Whooopity do. My brothers BiL is the same way but he is also a bi polar nutter. But hey the rest of us need a nice holiday to celebrate and spoil our nieces and nephews.

/Built soooooooo many lego sets this weekend


Bipolar nutter describes my dad. Oh, how i wish i was kidding.

Holiday visits are always so much fun...not.
 
2012-12-24 02:05:52 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: "From an early age, Gygax hunted and was a target-shooter with both bow and gun.[65] He was also an avid gun collector, and at various times owned a variety of rifles, shotguns, and handguns.[66]"

Where in the Bible does it command that?


We find lots of stuff lurking in the Umbras and Emanations of the Constitution, so why in not the Umbras and Emanations of the Bible?
 
2012-12-24 02:06:31 PM

Gergesa: If Christ came back from the dead does that making him an undead class of some sort? Are there undead clerics.


freethoughtblogs.com
 
2012-12-24 02:09:01 PM
Jesus hate's Gary Gygax because the dice just go everywhere.

/Think about it
 
2012-12-24 02:09:11 PM

Teufelaffe: Everybody knows that FATAL (NSFW or sanity) is the most hardcore and complex RPG out there.


I had an aneurysm halfway through that review. I feel potato.
 
2012-12-24 02:09:58 PM

SCUBA_Archer: Gergesa: If Christ came back from the dead does that making him an undead class of some sort? Are there undead clerics.


Never gets old.
 
2012-12-24 02:13:30 PM

Parthenogenetic: Yeah, I know the fighter "exceptional strength" table, but why shoehorn all that in between 18 and 19?


Perhaps because 18 was the max for a human character to roll. If you got past that it was probably because of some significant, supernatural event. Once past 18 it seemed the attribute scores stopped being linear. In the manuals I think even the greater gods maxed out at 25 for their attributes, but to compare say Zeus's 25 strength against one of the strongest human's 18 wouldn't be the same as comparing 18 to 11.
 
2012-12-24 02:17:16 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Raharu: Most Christians don't actually read the bible, and the ones that do cherry pick the hell out of it.

Christmas is a secular seasonal holiday now for the most part anyway.

Then why is it always observed on the 25th?

If the goal is to give everyone a winter day off why is it not observed on the second to last Monday or Friday of the month of December no matter when the Christian holiday of Christmas falls.

Christmas is clearly a religious holiday and as such has no right to be included in the Federal holiday calendar. It should be removed.


Religious, yes.  Christian, no.  Removed from Federal calendar? Eh, if we can change our money, Pledge, and a whole host of other things as well, sure.
 
2012-12-24 02:18:08 PM
Jesus was also very specific about divorce. I'm always irritated by literalist or fundamentalist Christians who like to tell everyone else what to do but who are divorced.
 
2012-12-24 02:19:00 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Who the fark cares?


I don't know anything about D&D, but I think it's interesting. He was a fascinating guy and this gives some little glimpse into his world.
 
2012-12-24 02:19:19 PM

SCUBA_Archer: Gergesa: If Christ came back from the dead does that making him an undead class of some sort? Are there undead clerics.

[freethoughtblogs.com image 512x640]


Well thank God someone finally cleared this up for me. Now I can go create my bible based MMO and have Jesus depicted as the correct class. Watch out WoW I'm coming for you with a fist full of holy trinity!!!
 
2012-12-24 02:34:21 PM

jjorsett: Quantum Apostrophe: "From an early age, Gygax hunted and was a target-shooter with both bow and gun.[65] He was also an avid gun collector, and at various times owned a variety of rifles, shotguns, and handguns.[66]"

Where in the Bible does it command that?

We find lots of stuff lurking in the Umbras and Emanations of the Constitution, so why in not the Umbras and Emanations of the Bible?


If you are going to make political derp in a nerd thread get it right!
 
2012-12-24 02:34:58 PM

Weaver95: (tank, healer, ranged DPS, melee DPS and a hybrid class for support role)


You mean like fighter, cleric, thief, magic-user, and elf? And the cooldowns are there to encourage you to use multiple powers - as opposed to 3.x, where the standard wizard spell selection was fireball, fireball, fireball, bigger fireball, hotter fireball, fireball rules with the damage type switched out for acid, delayed blat fireball, fireball with longer range and the damage type switched to cold, moronically rolling fireball, etc., etc.(or, you could just go full warlock* and just spam tard-blast infinitely). About the only thing they stole from MMOs that wasn't stole from them first was quick healing; and let's face it, I want to play heroic dungeon-crawl, not heroic ICU visit (if nothing else, the Balor can be beaten, unlike the health insurance rep).

Personally, I would have preferred they kept both lines, but D&D has always been the gateway drug of roleplaying. 3.x had some very nice features, but had a learning curve that was effectively a straight vertical, and was littered with hidden pitfalls for those who couldn't game out a character to level 20 at the beginning (simply selecting paladin as your class comes to find as the big one). 4e is a much simpler and more forgiving game. i don't care that there are no skills for chartered accountants, and that wizard is no longer the only class that matters - I want to be able to explain the game mechanics in less than a fortnight, and get someone hooked before the Cheetos high wears off. Now, the Essentials thing mucked thing sup, and one would hope that 5e would unify and tighten the rule-set, though everything I hear sounds like they are making zombie 3.x for the smallest subset of basement-dwellers possible.

* the class built for those who thought sorcerer was too complicated to play
 
2012-12-24 02:36:42 PM

largedon: Weaver95: Sid_6.7: Weaver95: Sid_6.7: Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!

Any love for Alternity?

only for the star*drive setting. I didn't like the rest.

I mostly liked the mechanics. The different levels of success, the health system, the step bonus/penalty involving rolling more dice. And they managed to fit a hell of a lot of game system content in the PHB, like the psychic powers, implants, the computer stuff, etc.

I really liked the star*drive setting.  I wish they'd actually gotten a chance to play out the war to it's logical conclusion.  I believe one or two of the writers DID put together the notes of where they intended to go with the metaplot and put it out online via bittorrent but once that was done, the setting kinda died.  damn shame too, since I loved the big bad aliens they'd thought up.

Wow can't believe there's people out there who also played Gamma World and Star Frontiers. Wish they would do something (MMO or regular game) with those systems. They were great fun, especially Star Frontiers.

/Also had a lot of fun with Boot Hill, a western RPG


Have Gamma World sitting on my kitchen counter as I type this. Started my kids on a campaign not long ago.

/my kids love the game
//they love rolling character mutations the most....like me
///one of them let the cover page get torn off
////RAGE!
//Star Frontiers also kicked ass. Dralasites ruled.
 
2012-12-24 02:40:19 PM

Weaver95: Ennuipoet: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 640x427]
Farktography #343: "Dungeons & Dragons" by Ennuipoet * FreeVerse Photography, on Flickr

/roll your Saving Throw biatches!

if you're playing Tomb of Horrors...don't bother with saves.


Definitely. That module was a brutal trap-fest with a final encounter that pretty much assured you'd be wadding up some character sheets if your DM wasn't particularly benevolent.


Also, on the subject of obscure TSR. Anyone remember Dawn Patrol?
 
2012-12-24 02:45:05 PM

phalamir: Weaver95: (tank, healer, ranged DPS, melee DPS and a hybrid class for support role)

You mean like fighter, cleric, thief, magic-user, and elf? And the cooldowns are there to encourage you to use multiple powers - as opposed to 3.x, where the standard wizard spell selection was fireball, fireball, fireball, bigger fireball, hotter fireball, fireball rules with the damage type switched out for acid, delayed blat fireball, fireball with longer range and the damage type switched to cold, moronically rolling fireball, etc., etc.). Save or die, save or die, save or die, save or die, just plain die (no save)


FTFY
 
2012-12-24 02:45:41 PM

Weaver95: no, i'm sorry but...that is completely wrong. 4th edition D&D feels like and plays like a table top version of an MMO. same mechanics, same cooldowns, same party make up (tank, healer, ranged DPS, melee DPS and a hybrid class for support role). pathfinder is probably the best evolution of 3.x rules. it's clear, works well, and scales well up to level 20. I especially liked how they handled sorcerers in pathfinder. and the newer classes (alchemist, gunslinger, witch to name a few) fit well for people who want to play a non-standard game.


When 3E came out, I could flip through the book, and it felt like D&D. There was enough continuity with 2nd ed. 4th ed. did not have that same feel for me.


So much makes no goddamn sense in 4th ed. Healing bursts, or whatever they're called. Everyone can suddenly not have been stabbed several times per day? Every thief/rogue is just as good at all thief-type skills as every other one, since they were all combined under a single skill?

Abilities you can only use once per 'encounter'? Can you imagine the philosophers of that world trying to figure out why they could only use an ability at intervals defined by some apparently arbitrary conceptual limit?
 
2012-12-24 02:48:33 PM
Dammit. I was curious about that and clicked before I realized it was at BB, where I was banned for being critical of their bullshiat hipster circus.
 
2012-12-24 02:52:18 PM

mat catastrophe: Dammit. I was curious about that and clicked before I realized it was at BB, where I was banned for being critical of their bullshiat hipster circus.


They got it from here
 
2012-12-24 02:53:01 PM

MikeyistheDevil: Weaver95: Ennuipoet: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 640x427]
Farktography #343: "Dungeons & Dragons" by Ennuipoet * FreeVerse Photography, on Flickr

/roll your Saving Throw biatches!

if you're playing Tomb of Horrors...don't bother with saves.

Definitely. That module was a brutal trap-fest with a final encounter that pretty much assured you'd be wadding up some character sheets if your DM wasn't particularly benevolent.


Module S1. On my shelf.

"Who's the most powerful character? Okay, you're dead, give me your sheet. Who's the next most powerful character? Okay, you're dead, give me your sheet" and so on.
 
2012-12-24 02:56:46 PM

phalamir: Weaver95: (tank, healer, ranged DPS, melee DPS and a hybrid class for support role)

You mean like fighter, cleric, thief, magic-user, and elf? And the cooldowns are there to encourage you to use multiple powers - as opposed to 3.x, where the standard wizard spell selection was fireball, fireball, fireball, bigger fireball, hotter fireball, fireball rules with the damage type switched out for acid, delayed blat fireball, fireball with longer range and the damage type switched to cold, moronically rolling fireball, etc., etc


Each and everyone of those classes can perform very different roles, depending on the player managing them. Combat mages, melee based clerics, ranged fighters, acrobat rogues, necromancer wizards.

If you need cool downs in your rule set to help your players find some variety, then your players are terribly unimaginative, or your DM is. Try having a wizard memorize nothing but fireball and any competent DM will punish him with fire immune creatures, counter spelling enemy wizards, anti magic zones, wild magic zones or a well placed silenced cross bow bold to his torso. Try being creative and not letting your players go full munchkin on you. There is a reason there is a vast array of spells available.

Dungeons and Dragons is not difficult to learn, but is complicated enough to provide the clever and imaginative player with endless hours of play. It doesn't need to be simplified and dumbed down as that can be done by each group according to their wants and needs. If you want simple and straightforward, don't allow extra source books beyond the dungeon master;s guide, player's handbook and monster manual.
 
2012-12-24 02:57:37 PM

farkeruk: Jesus rolled to save.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-24 02:57:51 PM
I've got my annual D&D Christmas marathon going on tonight, so this thread titivates me.

/2E TYVM
 
2012-12-24 03:01:25 PM
This is so utterly retarded it's the worst troll attempt I've ever seen. Bible doesn't command Christians to brush their teeth, so we should not brush our teeth people. It wouldn't be Christian. It's not in the Bible. It's not un-Biblical and that is the worst kind of wrong there is.
 
2012-12-24 03:01:34 PM

My BRAND!: Each and everyone of those classes can perform very different roles, depending on the player managing them. Combat mages, melee based clerics, ranged fighters, acrobat rogues, necromancer wizards.

If you need cool downs in your rule set to help your players find some variety, then your players are terribly unimaginative, or your DM is. Try having a wizard memorize nothing but fireball and any competent DM will punish him with fire immune creatures, counter spelling enemy wizards, anti magic zones, wild magic zones or a well placed silenced cross bow bold to his torso. Try being creative and not letting your players go full munchkin on you. There is a reason there is a vast array of spells available.

Dungeons and Dragons is not difficult to learn, but is complicated enough to provide the clever and imaginative player with endless hours of play. It doesn't need to be simplified and dumbed down as that can be done by each group according to their wants and needs. If you want simple and straightforward, don't allow extra source books beyond the dungeon master;s guide, player's handbook and monster manual.


This all ignores, of course, that combat is not necessary for a good role-playing experience. 4th ed. seems to be all about combat. That's it. F*ck role-playing.

You can easily run a 3E game that is not focused on combat, and a well developed campaign world leaves a lot of room for exploration and research.
 
2012-12-24 03:05:25 PM
Thanks for dying and inspiring that terrible Futurama movie, asshole.
 
2012-12-24 03:09:10 PM
I am a Christian

I do read the Bible.

I do know Christ wasn't born in December.

I do know December 25th was a day of pagan celebration.

I don't care.

I celebrate Christ's birth on December 25th because it's as good a day as any.

Happy [insert your specific religious or nonreligious celebration here]!
 
2012-12-24 03:12:37 PM

Ravijn: [i.imgur.com image 320x245]


"Hello, my name is Gary Gygax and I am .... *dice rolling* ... very pleased to meet you."
 
2012-12-24 03:30:31 PM

Weaver95: drake113: Jesus saves. The rest of the party takes full damage.

I wonder what Jesus's THACO was....?


His THAO isn't an issue. He has unlimited resurrections.
 
2012-12-24 03:37:45 PM

Sid_6.7: Weaver95: 2wolves: Gamma World shall not be forgotten.

nor shall star frontiers!

Any love for Alternity?


Still play it at least once a year for a good three-month campaign. Nothing else comes close to how well they combined modern age with high fantasy.

/Memorable plots: Protecting an ArchLich (the Lawful Good kind) running for President from his opponent, who was a member of Tyr's Sect. We failed.

I ran a campaign where the Stock Exchange was being magically hacked by a high-level Cybermage. The party took him out in two sessions.

UNK (United Nations and Kingdoms) peacekeeping duties in Nuallia (the country ran by Drow and under near-constant power struggles and upheaval) which resulted in having them have to fight off a near-full-powered Lolth trying to enter the world. Two made it out alive.

Guarding a set of 13 books from a series of assaults by mercenaries and covert forces, under strict rules not, NOT to open the chest they were in. End of the campaign we finally met who was paying us and what the books were: The Tomes of Fistandantilus. Raistlin was trying to amass power to take down Elminster for control of The University of Thaumaturgical Sciences.

Fighting a group of Frost Giants in the Northwest Territories.

The looks on our faces when our INT 7 Ranger decided to acquire a totem animal (who actually became the most bad-ass NPC we had in our party): A pound animal named "Kitty". "Kitty" was a Displacer Beast. We told him that was a "bad Kitty" and were scolded for being jerks and 'cat-haters'. "Kitty" (Khaitti) wound up saving our asses twice. The way it talked, though, was the clincher of having it stay for combat and entertainment value: "HUMAN! I demand a belly-rub!", "I. DO. NOT. EAT. CHEESEBURGERS!", "DAMMIT! YOU STUPID HUMANS! How did you fall for THAT?! Now, excuse me, someone has left me a plate of Bluefin as appeasement... ::thud:: ::snoooore:::"

Having our U.S. Templar (see: Marine) wind up discovering an old Vietnam-era M-16, and being forced to grab and use it after his ran out of ammo - and watching a 20th Century Holy Avenger take out four ogres in reactive armor. (Not as cool as the inscription the DM put on the stock: "A hero's strength comes not from anger, but from defiance.")

Going toe-to-toe with a Chromatic Red Great Wyrm on The Strip in Las Vegas. That was the last one we played a few months ago.
A character who played a Lawful Good Illithid... who worshipped Cthulhu.
"Really! It'll be better! No more pain or suffering, we all get to stop fighting among each other! How is that BAD?!"
"Well, for one, we're ALL DEAD."
He also had to buy his food off of the Internet, mainly cow brains.
 
2012-12-24 03:40:01 PM
"...but respectfully acknowledges the existence of dissenting views."

We would all be better off.
 
2012-12-24 03:42:25 PM

Teufelaffe: Everybody knows that FATAL (NSFW or sanity) is the most hardcore and complex RPG out there.


You named it! Why would you do that? Do you realize what you've done?!
 
2012-12-24 03:48:04 PM

Sid_6.7: 4th 1st ed. seems to be all about combat. That's it. F*ck role-playing.


FTFY

D&D has always been defined by walking into dungeons and killing dragons - it's in the goddamn name, fer Christ sake. If you are looking for combat-less wanking, I hear WW LARPs are always looking for new players; you can portray your social-outcast mentally-conflicted self-pitying dark elf dual-scimitar-wielding ranger* with a bunch of social-outcast mentally-conflicted self-pitying Toreador wastrel vampires - just be sure to sanitize after you clean up the spooge. 1st and 4th just assume you are competent enough to do what every 4 year-old does effortlessly, without needing special rules, and provides rules for what every 4 year-old sucks at, i.e. resolving conflict in a fair manner. I, personally, was able to quite happily inhabit a character way back before they even put an A in front of D&D; I don't need hand-holding to interact socially.

* Seriously, why did TSR not just create the Drizzt race-class and save 80+% of D&D players in the 90s the trouble of filling out more than 1 word on their character sheets?
 
2012-12-24 03:49:01 PM

Lionel Mandrake: mat catastrophe: Dammit. I was curious about that and clicked before I realized it was at BB, where I was banned for being critical of their bullshiat hipster circus.

They got it from here


Wow. It only took them three days to steal that one. Usually, they're even slower.

I guess subby knew that posting it from Mr. Unknown Blog would've gone nowhere.

fark the internet. It's a farking high-school popularity clique now, instead of a free-wheeling experiment in idea sharing.
 
2012-12-24 03:56:24 PM

Sid_6.7: Weaver95: no, i'm sorry but...that is completely wrong. 4th edition D&D feels like and plays like a table top version of an MMO. same mechanics, same cooldowns, same party make up (tank, healer, ranged DPS, melee DPS and a hybrid class for support role). pathfinder is probably the best evolution of 3.x rules. it's clear, works well, and scales well up to level 20. I especially liked how they handled sorcerers in pathfinder. and the newer classes (alchemist, gunslinger, witch to name a few) fit well for people who want to play a non-standard game.

When 3E came out, I could flip through the book, and it felt like D&D. There was enough continuity with 2nd ed. 4th ed. did not have that same feel for me.


So much makes no goddamn sense in 4th ed. Healing bursts, or whatever they're called. Everyone can suddenly not have been stabbed several times per day? Every thief/rogue is just as good at all thief-type skills as every other one, since they were all combined under a single skill?

Abilities you can only use once per 'encounter'? Can you imagine the philosophers of that world trying to figure out why they could only use an ability at intervals defined by some apparently arbitrary conceptual limit?


How about only being able to use a spell once per day and only if you prepared them in advance? That to me makes about as much sense as "per encounter". Either one is a game mechanic.

Healing surges were a little odd, I just RP'd them as a simple health potion any moron could make from common herbs. It was done to alleviate the need for a cleric.

4ed is a very fun edition and I loved it's streamlined features, much better than 3.x, I am afraid in the new edition they'll get rid of a lot of the innovations of 4ed because of whiners.

/4ed and Pathfinder baby
//3.x is a very munchkin friendly ed
 
2012-12-24 04:06:08 PM

phalamir: Sid_6.7: 4th 1st ed. seems to be all about combat. That's it. F*ck role-playing.

FTFY

D&D has always been defined by walking into dungeons and killing dragons - it's in the goddamn name, fer Christ sake. If you are looking for combat-less wanking, I hear WW LARPs are always looking for new players; you can portray your social-outcast mentally-conflicted self-pitying dark elf dual-scimitar-wielding ranger* with a bunch of social-outcast mentally-conflicted self-pitying Toreador wastrel vampires - just be sure to sanitize after you clean up the spooge. 1st and 4th just assume you are competent enough to do what every 4 year-old does effortlessly, without needing special rules, and provides rules for what every 4 year-old sucks at, i.e. resolving conflict in a fair manner. I, personally, was able to quite happily inhabit a character way back before they even put an A in front of D&D; I don't need hand-holding to interact socially.

* Seriously, why did TSR not just create the Drizzt race-class and save 80+% of D&D players in the 90s the trouble of filling out more than 1 word on their character sheets?


Drizzt is a farking clown and horribly written. Salvatore did a better job with Wulfgar over all his characters because the dude at least had some flaws. Not at the beginning, no. But after he was resurrected and broken he got interesting. Bruenor, Cattie-Brie, Entreri, and Drizzt read like characters that got played after the DM let them roll all 18's on their stats and gave them a +3 bonus to each because the player was their buddy along with some insanely OP magic weapons. Then and only then did he let them start playing the game.

/I didn't really have a point to make after that
 
2012-12-24 04:14:41 PM
I really liked 3.5ed; it was fairly well balanced, and had a lot of things that made sense. It just needed a few tweaks to make it just about perfect.

It's a shame they never made another one.
 
2012-12-24 04:18:28 PM
So Gary was Jehovah's Witness, huh?
 
2012-12-24 04:18:56 PM

fearmongert: Weaver95: drake113: Jesus saves. The rest of the party takes full damage.

I wonder what Jesus's THACO was....?

His THAO isn't an issue. He has unlimited resurrections.


Unless you deal fire or acid damage to him. That stops his insane regeneration.
 
2012-12-24 04:28:40 PM
What a hypocrite my youth pastor was. He was always preaching about how D&D was satanic because it had magic and dragons in it, but then he had no problem with LotR or the Chronicles of Narnia, because "Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were Christians." People just love to hate on any medium that they don't have a taste to get entertainment from, as if it's some sort of principle.
 
2012-12-24 04:29:49 PM

Alfonso the Great: I've got my annual D&D Christmas marathon going on tonight, so this thread titivates me.

/2E TYVM


You have my axe.

/Used to play ICE Rolemaster.
//Great game, but complicated as hell.
///Three slashees for the tall Elf Kings.
 
2012-12-24 04:37:58 PM

Raharu:
Christmas is a secular seasonal holiday now for the most part anyway.


It wouldn't exist as Christmas if it weren't for Christianity.
 
2012-12-24 04:53:19 PM

Raharu: Most Christians don't actually read the bible, and the ones that do cherry pick the hell out of it.

Christmas is a secular seasonal holiday now for the most part anyway.


Exactly. That's what happens when you try to force your religious holidays on the general population, they get watered down until they are pretty much are meaningless. Here's a tip for all the religious people out there. If you want your holidays to stay religious, then keep them in your churches. As soon as you try to impose them on everyone else they will lose their religious significance.
 
2012-12-24 05:07:16 PM

elchip: I really liked 3.5ed; it was fairly well balanced, and had a lot of things that made sense. It just needed a few tweaks to make it just about perfect.

It's a shame they never made another one.


Someone did.

D20 3.5 open source based

And it's awesome with lots of free stuff too.
 
2012-12-24 05:12:07 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Failed give a shiat roll.


I read that in Gary's voice.
 
2012-12-24 05:34:35 PM

elchip: I really liked 3.5ed; it was fairly well balanced, and had a lot of things that made sense. It just needed a few tweaks to make it just about perfect.


Umm, no it was in no farming way well balanced. The pub alone had core problems and the more supplements you added the worse it got. I have seen house riles lists several pages long just addressing problems that had occurred in the game sessions.

Also with regards to healing serves they make sense if you actually know what HP was representing for the last oh 20 years, unfortunately most never bothered to learn that part of the rules, and just made a false assumption.
 
2012-12-24 05:35:17 PM

Arkanaut: drake113: Jesus saves. The rest of the party takes full damage.

It's okay, that's why they brought a cleric along.


Plus, they can turn Jesus, since he counts as undead under 4E rules.
 
2012-12-24 05:47:24 PM

Marine1: It wouldn't exist as Christmas if it weren't for Christianity.


Yes, the Christians can take credit for the name. They also get the nativity. Congratulations. Every other element about Christmas, from the decorations to the giving of gifts arises from older traditions.

Also, obligatory.
 
2012-12-24 05:48:26 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave:

You have my axe.

/Used to play ICE Rolemaster.
//Great game, but complicated as hell.
///Three slashees for the tall Elf Kings.


I'm running the crew through B4 tonight. More axes are always welcome for cleansing the bowels of Zargon's lair!

In a marvelous contrivance, the longest-lived dwarf PC-turned-NPC in my campaigns is named Captain James Plum Puddin, Jr.

/Favorited appropriately
 
2012-12-24 06:37:28 PM

tzzhc4: Quantum Apostrophe: "From an early age, Gygax hunted and was a target-shooter with both bow and gun.[65] He was also an avid gun collector, and at various times owned a variety of rifles, shotguns, and handguns.[66]"

Where in the Bible does it command that?

Jesus was the holiest man to ever slap iron! He killed for your sins. (Remington 3:16)


Praise Alvis and pass the whiskey
 
2012-12-24 06:49:48 PM
Obligatory video links (nsfw language and situations)

Part 01: Gnome Rape

Part 02: Food Fight

Part 03: Titters & The American Pocket
 
2012-12-24 07:59:12 PM
I don't even know what edition my group is playing. We're just kinda spitballing and using the books as a loose reference.
 
2012-12-24 08:05:00 PM

t3knomanser: Marine1: It wouldn't exist as Christmas if it weren't for Christianity.

Yes, the Christians can take credit for the name. They also get the nativity. Congratulations. Every other element about Christmas, from the decorations to the giving of gifts arises from older traditions.

Also, obligatory.


Those older traditions would not have been combined into what you call Christmas if some group hadn't stepped up to do so. That's the point.
 
2012-12-24 08:27:16 PM

Marine1: Those older traditions would not have been combined into what you call Christmas if some group hadn't stepped up to do so. That's the point.


Holy crap...you have no concept of history, do you? A bunch of Christians didn't get together on a Thursday night and decide, "Hey, let's co-opt aspects of the winter solstice celebrations from a handful of different cultures across different times in history, stick 'em all together and call it Christmas!"
 
2012-12-24 08:54:16 PM

phalamir: Weaver95: (tank, healer, ranged DPS, melee DPS and a hybrid class for support role)

You mean like fighter, cleric, thief, magic-user, and elf? And the cooldowns are there to encourage you to use multiple powers - as opposed to 3.x, where the standard wizard spell selection was fireball, fireball, fireball, bigger fireball, hotter fireball, fireball rules with the damage type switched out for acid, delayed blat fireball, fireball with longer range and the damage type switched to cold, moronically rolling fireball, etc., etc.(or, you could just go full warlock* and just spam tard-blast infinitely). About the only thing they stole from MMOs that wasn't stole from them first was quick healing; and let's face it, I want to play heroic dungeon-crawl, not heroic ICU visit (if nothing else, the Balor can be beaten, unlike the health insurance rep).

Personally, I would have preferred they kept both lines, but D&D has always been the gateway drug of roleplaying. 3.x had some very nice features, but had a learning curve that was effectively a straight vertical, and was littered with hidden pitfalls for those who couldn't game out a character to level 20 at the beginning (simply selecting paladin as your class comes to find as the big one). 4e is a much simpler and more forgiving game. i don't care that there are no skills for chartered accountants, and that wizard is no longer the only class that matters - I want to be able to explain the game mechanics in less than a fortnight, and get someone hooked before the Cheetos high wears off. Now, the Essentials thing mucked thing sup, and one would hope that 5e would unify and tighten the rule-set, though everything I hear sounds like they are making zombie 3.x for the smallest subset of basement-dwellers possible.

* the class built for those who thought sorcerer was too complicated to play


3.x

What wow I think you had the most unimaginative group ever. First it is fairly widely agreed that it is a toss up between Cleric and Druid as to which is the more powerful class. Personally I feel that it depends on which expansion books are allowed and what setting is used, between those two. Both have a far higher chance of surviving through the first five levels when the wizard is fairly unuseful. Both also can be far more useful to the party, and with healing give the other party members a reason to be a meatshield.

Next the spell selection of fireball is silly and unimaginative. Its mainly handy only in massed battles the kind that adventuring parties really shouldn't be involved in very often. Its kind of a non effective spell with all the things that have evasion and fire resistance at levels you can spam cast it. Ray spells are more effective against small number of opponents if you must go for direct damage, and usually manipulation of the environment, or control of the enemy is more effective.
 
2012-12-24 09:16:36 PM

Parthenogenetic: Yeah, I know the fighter "exceptional strength" table, but why shoehorn all that in between 18 and 19?


Because humans aren't supposed to have over 18. With a max of 25 for gods, but a world of inferior, non-fighter characters to give str to, you needed more options.

Now it's just numbers. I don't like that. Needs to be an upper limit. In the sagas, even Thor had his limits.
 
2012-12-24 09:49:14 PM

Maxor: Next the spell selection of fireball is silly and unimaginative. Its mainly handy only in massed battles the kind that adventuring parties really shouldn't be involved in very often. Its kind of a non effective spell with all the things that have evasion and fire resistance at levels you can spam cast it. Ray spells are more effective against small number of opponents if you must go for direct damage, and usually manipulation of the environment, or control of the enemy is more effective.


Well, the fireball thing was meant to be hyperbolic. Though in my defense, it didn't seem like any new spell list could be published in 2e and 3e without one spell being a poorly hidden re-skin of fireball - though that was a better proposition in 3e than 2e, since 2e fireballs deformed to fill their entire listed volume, which meant, technically, a mage could flambe many entire small-to-mid-size dungeons with one spell (and unavoidably crisp himself. Though nothing beats the chicken trick in 1e.
 
2012-12-24 10:09:18 PM

phalamir: since 2e fireballs deformed to fill their entire listed volume, which meant, technically, a mage could flambe many entire small-to-mid-size dungeons with one spell (and unavoidably crisp himself.


That's why you get a ring of fire resistance for everyone in the party. You wanna dance with the mage, you'd best dance fast.

Also, there were a ton of third level spells that were infinitely useful. So fireball was usually a once a day. And with the 10d6 damage limit it was really only good for lesser critters anyway. But if you launched it in a goblin tunnel....
 
2012-12-24 10:31:21 PM

Teufelaffe: Marine1: Those older traditions would not have been combined into what you call Christmas if some group hadn't stepped up to do so. That's the point.

Holy crap...you have no concept of history, do you? A bunch of Christians didn't get together on a Thursday night and decide, "Hey, let's co-opt aspects of the winter solstice celebrations from a handful of different cultures across different times in history, stick 'em all together and call it Christmas!"


... did I say they did it in one night?

No.

Christianity spread over the centuries, and as time went on, it picked up more things from the different lands it moved across and adapted those things to Christian theology.

So, yeah, of course different traditions have contributed to Christmas. Christianity, however, rolled them into one major tradition.

Sort of like how English mugs other languages in dark alleys, steals their words, and leaves them for dead. It works, though.
 
2012-12-24 10:32:31 PM

doglover: Also, there were a ton of third level spells that were infinitely useful


Unlike 2nd level, where shiatty spells went to collect unemployment checks
 
2012-12-24 11:14:42 PM

phalamir: doglover: Also, there were a ton of third level spells that were infinitely useful

Unlike 2nd level, where shiatty spells went to collect unemployment checks


I'm talkin 'bout second level.

Fireball, lightning bolt, vampiric touch; there's a lot of opourtunistic combat spells and a limited number of slots. No one spams fireball.
 
2012-12-24 11:16:23 PM

Marine1: Teufelaffe: Marine1: Those older traditions would not have been combined into what you call Christmas if some group hadn't stepped up to do so. That's the point.

Holy crap...you have no concept of history, do you? A bunch of Christians didn't get together on a Thursday night and decide, "Hey, let's co-opt aspects of the winter solstice celebrations from a handful of different cultures across different times in history, stick 'em all together and call it Christmas!"

... did I say they did it in one night?

No.

Christianity spread over the centuries, and as time went on, it picked up more things from the different lands it moved across and adapted those things to Christian theology.

So, yeah, of course different traditions have contributed to Christmas. Christianity, however, rolled them into one major tradition.

Sort of like how English mugs other languages in dark alleys, steals their words, and leaves them for dead. It works, though.


What the fark does "it works" mean?

It works to steal other culture's ideals to coerce them into the religion? that's sick.

Christianity is no longer followed, its some kind of farked up amalgam of different theological beliefs that are seemingly approved by market research.

It isn't a religion, it's a marketing ploy no better than the cult of Scientology/Mormonism
 
2012-12-24 11:41:27 PM

Marine1: Those older traditions would not have been combined into what you call Christmas if some group hadn't stepped up to do so.


The Christians didn't "combine" diverse traditions. Europe is a small place- the traditions were already largely similar across the continent- and despite regional variations, remain largely similar today. At best, you could give credit to the Victorians for laying out what the Anglo variation of Christmas is.
 
2012-12-24 11:42:32 PM

Girion47: Marine1: Teufelaffe: Marine1: Those older traditions would not have been combined into what you call Christmas if some group hadn't stepped up to do so. That's the point.

Holy crap...you have no concept of history, do you? A bunch of Christians didn't get together on a Thursday night and decide, "Hey, let's co-opt aspects of the winter solstice celebrations from a handful of different cultures across different times in history, stick 'em all together and call it Christmas!"

... did I say they did it in one night?

No.

Christianity spread over the centuries, and as time went on, it picked up more things from the different lands it moved across and adapted those things to Christian theology.

So, yeah, of course different traditions have contributed to Christmas. Christianity, however, rolled them into one major tradition.

Sort of like how English mugs other languages in dark alleys, steals their words, and leaves them for dead. It works, though.

What the fark does "it works" mean?

It works to steal other culture's ideals to coerce them into the religion? that's sick.

Christianity is no longer followed, its some kind of farked up amalgam of different theological beliefs that are seemingly approved by market research.

It isn't a religion, it's a marketing ploy no better than the cult of Scientology/Mormonism


Sure it is.

I'll let the anthropologists know sometime tomorrow. Boy, will that throw them for a loop.
 
2012-12-25 12:10:24 AM

Moodybastard: tzzhc4: Quantum Apostrophe: "From an early age, Gygax hunted and was a target-shooter with both bow and gun.[65] He was also an avid gun collector, and at various times owned a variety of rifles, shotguns, and handguns.[66]"

Where in the Bible does it command that?

Jesus was the holiest man to ever slap iron! He killed for your sins. (Remington 3:16)

Praise Alvis and pass the whiskey


Crap screamer! You are forgetting the true meaning of Alvis Time. Niether is it ham nor pomp - nay, the true meaning of Alvis Time... is drinking. Drinking and revenge.

- Alvis
 
2012-12-26 04:31:38 PM
What part of the Bible instructed Gary to become heavily addicted to cocaine?
 
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