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(WHAM Rochester) NewsFlash NRA yesterday: We should have armed guards at every school. NRA after this morning: We're gonna need armed guards at fires too   (13wham.com ) divider line
    More: NewsFlash, Strong Memorial Hospital, fires, firefighters, morning  
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19824 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2012 at 9:23 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-12-24 12:14:59 PM  
Back when I started first grade there was an armed gaurd in the elementary school. Well he wasnt considered an armed gaurd, he was the school resource officer and they were always armed. This has been the norm for me all throughout my school life. Resource officers spend their time helping kids, showing them things and letting them make good choices. He is also the one who detains fighting students.

I thought this was normal for most schools. Its a pretty damn good idea. I remember this one time a kid was threatening to throw a girl over the second level railing, and the officer tackled the kid hard into the wall. Too bad the kid smashed the girls nose in before giving in, breaking it in 2 places. The kid was just a troublemaker.
 
2012-12-24 12:15:28 PM  

X-boxershorts: david_gaithersburg: Why not ban guns based on political party affiliation? If you and your party are against guns, then ban yourselves. Win-win!

Liberals have every right to defend themselves from the paranoid misinformed and bigoted Birchers who make up the base of the Republican party,

.
Excellent! So now we agree.
 
2012-12-24 12:16:01 PM  
Amos Quito:

1.bp.blogspot.com

Berlin, February, 1933.

assets.nydailynews.com

New York, December, 2012.

Sweeping societal changes followed the former, and I suspect they will follow the latter as well.


People shooting at firemen and EMTs is nothing new. As was mentioned it happened a few times during Katrina, and my dad's National Guard unit had to escort firetrucks trying to save people's homes during the MLK riots because of idiots sniping at them from rooftops.
 
2012-12-24 12:16:38 PM  

tonguedepressor: chuckufarlie: Scerpes: chuckufarlie: Scerpes: chuckufarlie: I simply state that we need to confiscate and make illegal all rifles that utilize a magazine or a clip. Screw semantics.

There are probably 50 million of them in the U.S. Good luck with that.

All the more reason that banning further manufacture is pointless and all the more reason to have them turned in and made illegal. Anybody who does not turn them in would be a criminal and could be arrested.

Not going to happen. Keep fantasizing, though.

Of course it could happen. More importantly, it needs to happen. Unless you are saying that all of those gun owners would not obey the law. Is that the type of person who has all of those rifles?

You realize that 80% of GOP reps. tout their gun ownership as part of their re-election platform? Who is going to vote for these confiscation laws?


You have not been paying attention to the news. Lots of those very reps are now changing their tune. And the GOP is losing ground in this country. Saner heads are taking over.
 
2012-12-24 12:17:02 PM  

Natsumi: I don't know if this has been asked before and please be nice... I don't live in America...
What is it with people and guns in America? Really?
I mean we (in Namibia) are avid hunters and such but we don't really take it to this level.


The USA was created by violently overthrowing the existing government (British) and creating a new one.  The idea that armed insurrection is a legitimate tool with which to enact political change is pretty fundamental to this day.  Not every American believes that, of course, but enough do that it shapes our society.
 
2012-12-24 12:17:06 PM  

c4rr0tc4k3: Back when I started first grade there was an armed gaurd in the elementary school. Well he wasnt considered an armed gaurd, he was the school resource officer and they were always armed. This has been the norm for me all throughout my school life. Resource officers spend their time helping kids, showing them things and letting them make good choices. He is also the one who detains fighting students.

I thought this was normal for most schools. Its a pretty damn good idea. I remember this one time a kid was threatening to throw a girl over the second level railing, and the officer tackled the kid hard into the wall. Too bad the kid smashed the girls nose in before giving in, breaking it in 2 places. The kid was just a troublemaker.


I really don't understand the resistance to it, other than cost. SRO's work out very well.
 
2012-12-24 12:17:11 PM  
The latest news says the shooter has been found dead outside one of the homes, evidently by a gunshot wound. They have not identified the shooter yet, nor do they say that the wound was self-inflicted.

2 firefighters dead, 2 injured in Webster; shooter found dead
 
2012-12-24 12:17:33 PM  

Infernalist: Scerpes: Infernalist: Scerpes: Infernalist: You'd be surprised what you can kill someone with. That doesn't make any of them equivalent to tools designed solely and purely with death in mind. Handguns have NO other purpose except to exert the fear of death or deal death.

If you loan someone a gun, then yeah, you ARE responsible for what they do with the tool of death that you gave them.

Equally responsible, at that.

Then it is absolutely the same for cars, hammers, chain saws, and any other deadly or dangerous weapon. Whether you like it or not.

If I loan someone my hammer, a tool of construction and creation, then I can safely assume that he's meaning to use it for some sort of construction.

If I loan someone my car, a tool of transportation, then I can safely assume that he's needing it to drive somewhere.

If I loan someone my gun, a tool of death and intimidation, then I can assume that he's intending to threaten someone or kill someone.

Do you understand the concept of 'design intent'?

Right. How could you possibly assume that the guy you loaned your gun to is going hunting, or that he wants to defend his home. That couldn't possibly be what he's going to do with it because all guns are bad, bad, bad.

Handguns are not designed for hunting. Nor assault rifles. Now, if he comes and borrows your hunting rifle, that's one thing and a completely different case.

But handguns and assault rifles are not 'hunting weapons' at all. As for defending his home? From whom? Isn't that why we have police? Alarm systems? Dogs? Tasers?


When seconds count, the Police are only minutes away...
 
2012-12-24 12:17:42 PM  

Amos Quito: lordjupiter: Delecrious: I could care less about gun laws. Sure, I'd prefer keeping them legal so I can get them legitimately, but if they're banned... I'd still get one if I wanted one, fark the government.

And that's the other logical disconnect from the gun slurpers. They're afraid of the government more than anything else, as illustrated by their distrust for it. And if the government bans guns they want, then they will be "criminalized" by a government they distrust in the first place.

So if you don't trust the government, and think you can defeat it in a necessary armed revolt, then why do you care what the law is? You can OPENLY talk about overthrowing the government, but you think you're oppressed to the point of tyranny? You OPENLY talk about rebellion being the reason for your guns, but you NEED THEM TO BE LEGAL to fight the oppressive government? Wouldn't a true rebel in a country with an evil, tyrannical government NOT CARE if the guns he wanted were illegal, because he'd be trying to overthrow them anyway?


When the People no longer have the ability to resist, their "rights" are meaningless.

Seems to me that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were crafted in the hopes of guaranteeing liberties for the People, and limitations on the Government.

Now if the FF's felt that the Government they were crafting would be perpetually benevolent, why on earth do you suppose they would have guaranteed said rights and enacted said limitations?

And how are the People to respond, not if, but when their Government falls into tyranny?


Didn't really address what I wrote and just answered questions with more questions that shift the focus.  But thanks for trying.
 
2012-12-24 12:17:49 PM  

Scerpes: She taught him to shoot. She may well have provided them to him.


Possibly. But then how do we stop situations like those?
 
2012-12-24 12:17:50 PM  
Was this a domestic situation maybe? Like some dude's wife was banging one (or more) firefighters?
 
2012-12-24 12:17:57 PM  

Infernalist: As for defending his home? From whom? Isn't that why we have police? Alarm systems? Dogs? Tasers?


Sure I'll ask the guy breaking into my home to sit still until the police arrive. I'm sure he'll listen. The police have no obligation to protect anyone. Its been proven in several court cases. What's am alarm going to do? You think he is going to do a U turn like the commercials show? Cops answer false alarm calls every single night. You think your alarm is going to be treated as priority one? Tasers are good for one shot, I hope you don't miss.
 
2012-12-24 12:18:45 PM  

chuckufarlie: dr_blasto: letrole: BronyMedic: I agree. It's high time we turned from the wicked sinful choice of homosexuality, and back to Jesus H Christ, our lord and savior.


But the guns have always been there. Something has changed.

Care to wager about the shooter being a disaffected young white male?

The guns have always been there and these things have always happened. This shiat isn't new, man.

The fact that this is not new is no reason to take all possible steps to make sure it does not happen again.


Either society has hit the practical limit for tolerance of this or it hasn't. We've never collectively done shiat about it before, maybe the time is now.

If we, as a nation, decide to do something then we need to address both the root causes and the access to the tools. Just doing one thing isn't going to make a change.
 
2012-12-24 12:19:41 PM  

trappedspirit: Scerpes: She taught him to shoot. She may well have provided them to him.

Possibly. But then how do we stop situations like those?


Making people get a license to have kids.

Taking into account the individuals in someone's house before you let them buy firearms.

Setting up an NCIC like database to track crazy farks.
 
2012-12-24 12:19:41 PM  

gja: KarmicDisaster: Scerpes: Waxing_Chewbacca: Scerpes: Waxing_Chewbacca: david_gaithersburg: Oh the outrage, how dare they make a sensible statement such as having city schools be patrolled by city police officers. That would call fro removing the police from the doughnut shops.

This was at a fire. Idiot. Take your 2nd amendment and jam it up your ass

What other civil rights do you hate?

Is there another which you the tools to kill with speed, efficiency and devastation?

I guess you've never been behind the wheel of a car.

We register cars and drivers and require licensing and theoretical testing and a practical test and full legal ID and insurance to drive one.

That is true and yet my sister was hit by an unlicensed driver, in an unregistered car with no insurance.
For the record: I am not attempting to compare guns to cars/cutlery/sponge cake/dildos/etc....
I am merely pointing out that miscreants will break laws without regard or worry of the consequences.
Oh, and this guy was in a minvan FULL of his kin and kids, not a seatbelt among them, even for the 2 year old!


/criminals, how do they behave?
//think i am full of it? email me and i will send you an un-redacted copy of the police report, you cant make this stuff up


Well, then, I guess we should get rid of driver's licenses.
 
2012-12-24 12:20:21 PM  

chuckufarlie: Of course it could happen. More importantly, it needs to happen. Unless you are saying that all of those gun owners would not obey the law. Is that the type of person who has all of those rifles?


Man I'm so glad drugs are illegal. Oh wait...
 
2012-12-24 12:20:29 PM  
The only way to stop a bad guy on meth is a good guy on meth!
 
2012-12-24 12:20:47 PM  
ronaprhys: To try and legislate to a 100% safety level is impossible and probably shouldn't be restricted. I say that not to be snarky, but noting that a 100% safety level isn't possible anywhere and point out that we regularly accept levels below that. Vehicles, pools, knives, etc aren't 100% safe. Hell - hammers aren't 100% safe. Trying to use that as your level does nothing more than set an impossible standard that paves the way for continual legislation and failed results - which leads to more and more restrictions upon the populace.

There's nothing wrong with saying any unnecessary gun violence exceeds an acceptable level (which is 0) and then work toward reasonably bringing that number down (with the goal of getting it as close to 0 as possible). That was my point. By saying look at all of these people that don't flip out - and isn't that a much bigger number - he's getting at what he determines is an acceptable level of risk. It's implicit in his argument. When a hammer is used to slaughter children in a school then I'll consider additional regulations for hammers. A hammer is inherently different than a gun and we should consider them separately. A gun and a vehicle are more comparable and we do heavily regulate driving.

Rarely enough that attempting to legislate against it will result in nothing more than undue restrictions upon all other law abiding folks. Secondly, whether or not your comfortable with the sanity of the average firearm owner is irrelevant. Statistically speaking, that's bullshiat. In the United States, I believe the current homicide rate is hovering around 4/100,000. So unless you regularly hang out with 25K people/year, it's not bloody likely. Now, if you hang out in crime-infested neighborhoods, have gang bangers or drug dealers for friends, and so forth, then it becomes much more likely. However, still - bullshiat. Knowing someone from the news doesn't count as actually knowing them.

There's a reason why your neighbor isn't building a nuclear bomb in his garage. We regulate certain weapons so that they cannot be used in every day violence because the potential cost to society exceeds one's right to possess weaponry. Regulation can be tool against decreasing gun violence. (Example: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-g un-deaths/69354/)  Also - I said that you'll probably know someone who is the victim of gun violence (injury or death). This brings the number of people you need to know in order to know someone who was a victim of gun violence down significantly. Do the research. Count your friends, family, colleagues, and associates.

Well, you've used some very bad analogies there. Street racing is illegal as it's dangerous. Murder is illegal because it's dangerous. Randomly discharging your firearm in public places is illegal because it's dangerous - however, defending yourself isn't. The fact is that all "bad" behaviors with firearms (the ones that actually hurt someone else) are illegal. By your examples, we're set - from a legal perspective.

Technically - you're only banned from street racing on city, county, and state roads/streets/highways/etc. Many states contain one area in which street racing is legal (a race track designed for this type of racing). That was my point entirely - there are some hobbies that pose a risk to others and we regulate that. My analogies were used to illustrate how regulations have mitigated risk and not how bad behavior is a type of regulatory tool. There are other regulations that aren't focused on bad behavior but on other aspects. For example - the type of weapons you should be allowed to possess can be tiered based on licensing and specialized training or restricted based on type (your neighbor cannot own a nuclear bomb). We can also use tax on gun sales to provide free training classes to households in which there are guns present. There are literally hundreds of ways we can approach the topic. Some of the ways would be more effective than others and we should probably use the least amount of regulation with the greatest efficacy as a general rule. However, to completely take certain common sense types of regulation off the table because . . . hobbies . . . is absurd.
 
2012-12-24 12:21:20 PM  
Farking sick. What, is this Afghanistan now?

Although I can't help but think that had this happened in NYC it wouldn'tve made it past local news.
 
2012-12-24 12:21:24 PM  


just looked at it on google maps......sad thing. Sounds like somebody wants their home to burn either because they dont want something inside it found or somebody just has a thing against first responders. My guess is the shooter
IS NOT a member of the NRA and IS NOT a CCW holder

9 posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 5:29:55 AM by Michigan Bowhunter


Link
 
2012-12-24 12:21:50 PM  

chuckufarlie: tonguedepressor: chuckufarlie: Scerpes: chuckufarlie: Scerpes: chuckufarlie: I simply state that we need to confiscate and make illegal all rifles that utilize a magazine or a clip. Screw semantics.

There are probably 50 million of them in the U.S. Good luck with that.

All the more reason that banning further manufacture is pointless and all the more reason to have them turned in and made illegal. Anybody who does not turn them in would be a criminal and could be arrested.

Not going to happen. Keep fantasizing, though.

Of course it could happen. More importantly, it needs to happen. Unless you are saying that all of those gun owners would not obey the law. Is that the type of person who has all of those rifles?

You realize that 80% of GOP reps. tout their gun ownership as part of their re-election platform? Who is going to vote for these confiscation laws?

You have not been paying attention to the news. Lots of those very reps are now changing their tune. And the GOP is losing ground in this country. Saner heads are taking over.


They were earlier last week before the NRA started piping up with their misdirections.  Just watch as the rest fall in line and attack the same scapegoats.  They will blame culture and mental health, and instead of reforming the gun culture or actually dealing with healthcare they'll blame THOSE things on Hollywood and video games.  The NRA has handed them their script, and all they did was cross out the word "Columbine" in the title.
 
2012-12-24 12:22:18 PM  

snocone: chuckufarlie: Scerpes: chuckufarlie: I simply state that we need to confiscate and make illegal all rifles that utilize a magazine or a clip. Screw semantics.

There are probably 50 million of them in the U.S. Good luck with that.

All the more reason that banning further manufacture is pointless and all the more reason to have them turned in and made illegal. Anybody who does not turn them in would be a criminal and could be arrested.

That ain't gonna happen no matter what.
Running that flag up the pole on fire is is sorta inflamitory, eh?


There is every reason to believe that it should and can happen. It is the only way to resolve the problem. All anybody needs to do to realize that lots of unstable, irrational people are armed with weapons that they should not own is to read the posts of the gun nutz.

99% or you are anti-government. The only threat to the stability of the USA is you and your buddies.
 
2012-12-24 12:22:27 PM  

computerguyUT: You guys spout "take them all away" like that would solve anything since it's not law abiding gun owners that are going nutjob.


No, the "law-abiding" gun owners are the ones who have children die in their home from playing with a gun, or accidentally kill a member of their own family mistaking them for an intruder or by mishandling a weapon, or kill themselves and leave their families to discover their blood remains (too common to be "newsworthy"). These are the every-day tragedies of America's obsession with guns, the ones you nuts are so eager to defend. WTF is wrong with you?

computerguyUT: Where's your real solution? It's so much easier to just spout crap and rhetoric in funny redneck misspelled words and make funny DEHURRRR sounds.


Ahh, right, you prefer ignorance. The solutions are readily apparent. Reduce the number of handguns and assault weapons in your country and you'll reduce the amount of indiscriminate murders. It works for the rest of the civilized world, so it might just work for you too..
 
2012-12-24 12:22:46 PM  
Here is deal gun owners - your days of owning guns just because you want to are coming to an end. Every time there is a massacre (and there will surely be more), you lose more supporters. The fact that 20 innocent children died and we still don't have the guts to take on the gun nuts is a stunning indictment of our collective cowardice. Maybe next time it will be 40 children. Or a couple dozen at one of those mega churches. But mark my words- the day of reckoning is coming.
 
2012-12-24 12:23:01 PM  

david_gaithersburg: dr_blasto: david_gaithersburg: The one thing that these threads show us is the fear held by the rabid wannabe fascist progressives, that fear tells us that the second amendment is working very well.

Who is the fearful person here?

The guy that advocates reducing weaponry available to crazy people or the guy who seems to think that he is going to be assaulted at any minute and needs a firearm to prevent that?

I'll ask a question: is there a practical limit to the RKBA? What is that limit? Whose constitutional rights should be limited here and why? If there are limits, in your opinion, then the thing is entirely up in question. If there are no limits, what is your opinion of society in general--why or what do you feel makes it so bad?

.
No, there should be no limits on the RKBA. As human beings our basic human right of self preservation shall not be infringed. I'll ask the question, why are you so afraid of a free society?


So,
Felons
Methheads
Wife-beaters
Criminally insane
that nutter who hears voices telling him to bring on the end times

All of them. They should all have access.
 
2012-12-24 12:23:13 PM  
We should totally punish everybody for this, while making us all less safe.
 
2012-12-24 12:23:26 PM  

david_gaithersburg: X-boxershorts: david_gaithersburg: Why not ban guns based on political party affiliation? If you and your party are against guns, then ban yourselves. Win-win!

Liberals have every right to defend themselves from the paranoid misinformed and bigoted Birchers who make up the base of the Republican party,
.
Excellent! So now we agree.


On one thing specifically. Instituting a gun ban does nothing in the short run.

Nothing in society will change until the anti tax, constitutional literalists drown government in a bathtub types are kicked the fark out of government.
 
2012-12-24 12:24:16 PM  
Over 550 posts, and no one thought to post this...

jessicacristiane.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-24 12:24:25 PM  

lordjupiter: Amos Quito: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 425x545]

Berlin, February, 1933.

[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x400]

New York, December, 2012.

Sweeping societal changes followed the former, and I suspect they will follow the latter as well.

So we've officially gone Godwin AND tinfoil hat with a conspiracy theory akin to the Reichstag fire?  Because if so, that's some uncut derp right there.



No, no "conspiracy theory" implied in the NY case.

As to the Reichstag Fire, who started the blaze was of little importance. What mattered is how the event was used as political leverage to convince the PEOPLE to accept changes they would otherwise have found repugnant.

But such things could never happen here.
 
2012-12-24 12:24:48 PM  
We could get crips and bloods to protect schools. pay them in menthols.
 
2012-12-24 12:24:57 PM  

Infernalist: The usual last resort:  "what's YOUR plan??"

You don't want a plan, you want something you can ignore and line-item with shiatty retorts.  I have my own ideas as does everyone else, but I'm not a lawmaker or an expert who can determine the cut-off lines for ballistics or regulations.  My suggestion is, and always has been, for the gun lobby astroturfers to stop blocking the discussion.  Start with that.


And your usual cop out. Sure, we get to debate the feasibility of any proposal. That's the nature of our society. Now, are you going to continue with the "got nothing" angle or are you going to post up actual thoughts? I'm very willing to have a debate on the feasibility and will happily support anything that looks to actually address the problems and not trample the Constitution. One would think, with your passion on the subject, that you have thoughts. So why not post them? If they're unconstitutional, just own up to that. If they don't or wouldn't work, why not learn that now so reasonable and useful suggestions can come forth?
 
2012-12-24 12:25:07 PM  

chuckufarlie: People_are_Idiots: Verrai: iheartscotch: I always wondered why more schools don't employ a few members of the local police force to provide security.

/ I know a few do, but not all.

Columbine High School had armed guards.

And he was outside, in the opposite end of the building at the time of the shooting (catching the deadly smokers). It took him five minutes to get to the cafeteria (he was notified three minutes into the shooting, and it took him two minutes to get to the cafeteria), enough time to kill a good number of kids even with a snub-nosed 22. He did exchange fire twice in the shootout, which diverted their attention from shooting the students, saving lives. If the security guard wasn't there, the massacre would have been a heck of a lot worse, since the police were preoccupied with a bomb they detonated someplace else. Grant you if the officer was closer (it is a large campus), it might not have stopped the two from killing anyone, but he did in fact save a lot of lives that day, at least as a diversion.

At my school (which has armed police), he is just down the hall, and doesn't leave the school while in session (not even to the parking lot, that's what the principal and his team is for). He can get to the reception area in seconds (and the doors all over the rest of the building lock upon start of school). Also, during lunch he would be near the lunchroom, watching the kids eat. Backup's less than a minute away for him, and since he is a police officer, he has proper two-way communication.

There are a lot of things to be learned from any shootings, but alas, it has to come at a price, much like script-kiddies and computer attacks.

The price is now too high. The rifles that use magazines need to be collected and taken to a blast furnace.


Hmm, so you want to effectively do... what? Banning rifles with magazines is about as effective as banning chemicals that make explosives. I can take a standard handgun and convert it to a magazine-fed rifle, and if I can, what's to stop someone else? Not to mention that banning these rifles would have little to no effect on the gun crime rate. Making a better mousetrap begets a smarter mouse.
 
2012-12-24 12:25:49 PM  
I have got to say, just looking at this - you're a pretty fantastic troll. I'm not saying this to particularly fluff your ego, but in head shaking sadness over how easy it is to bate so many dunces...

I'm hoping half the people who have bitten are also trolling...
People have responded to even the weakest bits and with flagrant stupidity, it's all so Poe's law....

Can't legislate morality.... derp 10 commandments...
Automatic weapons = mass shootings..... derp semi automatic weapons
Civilization collapsing.... so much derp I can't boil it down.

I dunno, go get a beer or something, you deserve it.

/I know some great trolls...
//If people know you're trolling you'll never be truly great. ie; Don't use the same post in EVERY comment thread...
 
2012-12-24 12:26:55 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: Infernalist: rth

umm, just about every single one that has ever been toppled ? you think they all stepped down after a debate ?

how many revolutions were successfully carried out without guns ?


Gandhi would like a word with you.
 
SRD [TotalFark]
2012-12-24 12:27:34 PM  

chuckufarlie: Scerpes: chuckufarlie: I simply state that we need to confiscate and make illegal all rifles that utilize a magazine or a clip. Screw semantics.

There are probably 50 million of them in the U.S. Good luck with that.

All the more reason that banning further manufacture is pointless and all the more reason to have them turned in and made illegal. Anybody who does not turn them in would be a criminal and could be arrested.


You know whats funny you think all rifles should be turned in yet only about 300 people die a year from rifles maybe 100 are from ar15 type rifles. thats it more people die from fist fights and knives than rifles per year. But dont let facts get to you.

Also i wouldnt turn in my rifles if they were made illegal. In fact most wouldnt. That would be an over reach of the govt. The 2nd amendment is as important as the 1st dont give rights away so easy. You probably also didnt know permit holders are 7-14 times less likely to be arrested for a crime. Seems gun owners are the more responsible of the citizens in this nation.
 
2012-12-24 12:27:40 PM  

lordjupiter: chuckufarlie: tonguedepressor: chuckufarlie: Scerpes: chuckufarlie: Scerpes: chuckufarlie: I simply state that we need to confiscate and make illegal all rifles that utilize a magazine or a clip. Screw semantics.

There are probably 50 million of them in the U.S. Good luck with that.

All the more reason that banning further manufacture is pointless and all the more reason to have them turned in and made illegal. Anybody who does not turn them in would be a criminal and could be arrested.

Not going to happen. Keep fantasizing, though.

Of course it could happen. More importantly, it needs to happen. Unless you are saying that all of those gun owners would not obey the law. Is that the type of person who has all of those rifles?

You realize that 80% of GOP reps. tout their gun ownership as part of their re-election platform? Who is going to vote for these confiscation laws?

You have not been paying attention to the news. Lots of those very reps are now changing their tune. And the GOP is losing ground in this country. Saner heads are taking over.

They were earlier last week before the NRA started piping up with their misdirections.  Just watch as the rest fall in line and attack the same scapegoats.  They will blame culture and mental health, and instead of reforming the gun culture or actually dealing with healthcare they'll blame THOSE things on Hollywood and video games.  The NRA has handed them their script, and all they did was cross out the word "Columbine" in the title.


No, I am afraid that you are wrong. The majority of the people are fed up with this crap. We are being held hostage by a bunch of rednecks just so they can play with their toys. We are ready to support some sort of law that will eliminate this problem and the politicians know it.

The biggest threat to the USA and its people are those who own weapons designed for one purpose, to kill people.

How many more children have to die before we fix this?

How stupid it is to say that you have to own a rifle just so the government cannot take it away from you?

It is time that the intelligent section of the population stops allowing the stupid part to have their way.
 
2012-12-24 12:27:53 PM  
Some folks just like a nice cozy fire and get disturbed when the authorities show up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSd461fMNfE
 
2012-12-24 12:28:05 PM  

astouffer: Infernalist: As for defending his home? From whom? Isn't that why we have police? Alarm systems? Dogs? Tasers?

Sure I'll ask the guy breaking into my home to sit still until the police arrive. I'm sure he'll listen. The police have no obligation to protect anyone. Its been proven in several court cases. What's am alarm going to do? You think he is going to do a U turn like the commercials show? Cops answer false alarm calls every single night. You think your alarm is going to be treated as priority one? Tasers are good for one shot, I hope you don't miss.


Well, obviously everyone needs an AR-15 with a drum magazine to defend their home against all those body armored bad guys who want to break in, not something actually useful for self defense like a pump shotgun or medium caliber pistol/revolver.
 
2012-12-24 12:28:21 PM  

Dinki: Here is deal gun owners - your days of owning guns just because you want to are coming to an end. Every time there is a massacre (and there will surely be more), you lose more supporters. The fact that 20 innocent children died and we still don't have the guts to take on the gun nuts is a stunning indictment of our collective cowardice. Maybe next time it will be 40 children. Or a couple dozen at one of those mega churches. But mark my words- the day of reckoning is coming.


This is one of the most unintentionally funny things I have read in weeks, thanks for the chuckle!
 
2012-12-24 12:29:05 PM  

gja: KarmicDisaster: Scerpes: Waxing_Chewbacca: Scerpes: Waxing_Chewbacca: david_gaithersburg: Oh the outrage, how dare they make a sensible statement such as having city schools be patrolled by city police officers. That would call fro removing the police from the doughnut shops.

This was at a fire. Idiot. Take your 2nd amendment and jam it up your ass

What other civil rights do you hate?

Is there another which you the tools to kill with speed, efficiency and devastation?

I guess you've never been behind the wheel of a car.

We register cars and drivers and require licensing and theoretical testing and a practical test and full legal ID and insurance to drive one.

That is true and yet my sister was hit by an unlicensed driver, in an unregistered car with no insurance.
For the record: I am not attempting to compare guns to cars/cutlery/sponge cake/dildos/etc....
I am merely pointing out that miscreants will break laws without regard or worry of the consequences.
Oh, and this guy was in a minvan FULL of his kin and kids, not a seatbelt among them, even for the 2 year old!


/criminals, how do they behave?
//think i am full of it? email me and i will send you an un-redacted copy of the police report, you cant make this stuff up


Well, that's bad of course, but are you trying to say with your example that drivers licensing and training and testing does not improve safety and we don't need drivers licenses? Because it does and we do. Nothing is going to be 100%, there will be violators.  Licensing guns similarly would improve safety while assuring ownership for those that want them.
 
2012-12-24 12:29:20 PM  

Infernalist: DrExplosion: Infernalist: DrExplosion: Infernalist: But handguns and assault rifles are not 'hunting weapons' at all. As for defending his home? From whom? Isn't that why we have police? Alarm systems? Dogs? Tasers?

None of those things works half as well as being able to shoot the guy who broke into your house. Killing people isn't always bad.

I'm sure Lanza thought the same thing.

Yes, I'm sure he thought he lived in that school and was confused and terrified at all the children who were invading it with the intent to harm him.

Really, though, you're seriously equating self-defense with mass murder? In your mind, there is absolutely no justification for ever killing another human being, and all killings are morally equal? Is this accurate? I know from looking at the rest of the thread that you're either a troll or a retard, I just want to hear you say it.

You statement was..."Killing people isn't always bad." I simply pointed out that Lanza would have agreed with you. If you have a problem with that, too farking bad. The truth hurts.


I am sure your family would be comforted by your principles as you were forced to watch them raped & murdered, right? After all, defense of ones family with deadly force is still dealing death, therefore bad.

/won't someone think of the criminals?
 
2012-12-24 12:29:27 PM  

lordjupiter: Amos Quito: lordjupiter: Delecrious: I could care less about gun laws. Sure, I'd prefer keeping them legal so I can get them legitimately, but if they're banned... I'd still get one if I wanted one, fark the government.

And that's the other logical disconnect from the gun slurpers. They're afraid of the government more than anything else, as illustrated by their distrust for it. And if the government bans guns they want, then they will be "criminalized" by a government they distrust in the first place.

So if you don't trust the government, and think you can defeat it in a necessary armed revolt, then why do you care what the law is? You can OPENLY talk about overthrowing the government, but you think you're oppressed to the point of tyranny? You OPENLY talk about rebellion being the reason for your guns, but you NEED THEM TO BE LEGAL to fight the oppressive government? Wouldn't a true rebel in a country with an evil, tyrannical government NOT CARE if the guns he wanted were illegal, because he'd be trying to overthrow them anyway?


When the People no longer have the ability to resist, their "rights" are meaningless.

Seems to me that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were crafted in the hopes of guaranteeing liberties for the People, and limitations on the Government.

Now if the FF's felt that the Government they were crafting would be perpetually benevolent, why on earth do you suppose they would have guaranteed said rights and enacted said limitations?

And how are the People to respond, not if, but when their Government falls into tyranny?

Didn't really address what I wrote and just answered questions with more questions that shift the focus.  But thanks for trying.



Which is better? Fighting a government that has fallen into ruthless tyranny, or Keeping the dog on a short leash so that it doesn't fall into tyranny?
 
gja
2012-12-24 12:31:26 PM  

usernameguy: gja: KarmicDisaster: Scerpes: Waxing_Chewbacca: Scerpes: Waxing_Chewbacca: david_gaithersburg: Oh the outrage, how dare they make a sensible statement such as having city schools be patrolled by city police officers. That would call fro removing the police from the doughnut shops.

This was at a fire. Idiot. Take your 2nd amendment and jam it up your ass

What other civil rights do you hate?

Is there another which you the tools to kill with speed, efficiency and devastation?

I guess you've never been behind the wheel of a car.

We register cars and drivers and require licensing and theoretical testing and a practical test and full legal ID and insurance to drive one.

That is true and yet my sister was hit by an unlicensed driver, in an unregistered car with no insurance.
For the record: I am not attempting to compare guns to cars/cutlery/sponge cake/dildos/etc....
I am merely pointing out that miscreants will break laws without regard or worry of the consequences.
Oh, and this guy was in a minvan FULL of his kin and kids, not a seatbelt among them, even for the 2 year old!


/criminals, how do they behave?
//think i am full of it? email me and i will send you an un-redacted copy of the police report, you cant make this stuff up

Well, then, I guess we should get rid of driver's licenses.


Wrong. We need to remove the "no fault" laws which enable these jackwagons to not get sent to jail for this type of crap.
My sister has a messed up neck and hip now for years thanks to this, and he went his merry way and no justice was served.
I will posit he likely returned to that same criminal behavior directly.
We need to make the consequences for hurting others intentionally, or a as result of deliberate disregard for laws, truly harsh.

Use a gun/knife/car in a felony? Hurt someone while committing a crime? JAIL. Long, hard, no parole jail.

We need personal responsibility in this country NOW/ASAP/today......
 
2012-12-24 12:31:37 PM  

Infernalist: Handguns are not designed for hunting. Nor assault rifles. Now, if he comes and borrows your hunting rifle, that's one thing and a completely different case.


I'd be careful making a blanket statement there.
 
2012-12-24 12:32:14 PM  
 
2012-12-24 12:32:38 PM  
Reasonable Man:  Maybe we could increase the number of armed security/police in schools.  We already have them in many schools, including the schools of many in government that say it's a bad idea.   Also, whenever one of these idiot murderers are confronted with someone who has a gun, they usually stop or shoot themselves in the head.

US Media and many Farkers: OMG!!!  CRAZY!!!  WHY DON'T WE ARM HAMSTERS WHILE WERE AT IT!  THIS GUY WANTS US TO HAVE NUCLEAR MISSLES IN OUR SCHOOLS!!!!  AGGGGHHH!!!!  WHAT AN IDIOT!!!
 
2012-12-24 12:33:29 PM  

Dinki: Here is deal gun owners - your days of owning guns just because you want to are coming to an end. Every time there is a massacre (and there will surely be more), you lose more supporters. The fact that 20 innocent children died and we still don't have the guts to take on the gun nuts is a stunning indictment of our collective cowardice. Maybe next time it will be 40 children. Or a couple dozen at one of those mega churches. But mark my words- the day of reckoning is coming.


I'm find in time, logic prevails over knee-jerk reactions. Of course, lately what I've seen is more gun nuts since November, and continuing into December, and through the shootings. When the day comes when it's a criminal offense to own a gun, we'll find ourselves put in jail for shooting the "poor victim" that tried to break into our house with a gun, or put in jail for shooting the "poor bear" that mauled an "accomplice." Of course, probably by that time, this country will be finding itself dissolved, or in another Civil War.
 
2012-12-24 12:36:13 PM  
I hope they get the evil person who did this and that they nail his balls to the wall.  I hope they make a damned example out of this fark to scare those type of assholes into never doing a similar thing again.  If we can't get rid of bad people, we can at least scare them into good behavior.
 
2012-12-24 12:36:45 PM  
Running total of shooting deaths since Newtown

Not including today's.

Just providing data.
 
2012-12-24 12:37:57 PM  

SRD: chuckufarlie: Scerpes: chuckufarlie: I simply state that we need to confiscate and make illegal all rifles that utilize a magazine or a clip. Screw semantics.

There are probably 50 million of them in the U.S. Good luck with that.

All the more reason that banning further manufacture is pointless and all the more reason to have them turned in and made illegal. Anybody who does not turn them in would be a criminal and could be arrested.

You know whats funny you think all rifles should be turned in yet only about 300 people die a year from rifles maybe 100 are from ar15 type rifles. thats it more people die from fist fights and knives than rifles per year. But dont let facts get to you.

Also i wouldnt turn in my rifles if they were made illegal. In fact most wouldnt. That would be an over reach of the govt. The 2nd amendment is as important as the 1st dont give rights away so easy. You probably also didnt know permit holders are 7-14 times less likely to be arrested for a crime. Seems gun owners are the more responsible of the citizens in this nation.


I did not say ALL rifles. I said those that use magazines or clips should be made illegal and that they should be confiscated.

What concerns me and a lot of other people are these situations where one person commits mass murders. Your comments about fist fights and knifes is pointless because that is not the problem being addressed. You cannot go in to a school and beat a bunch of people to death, nor can you do so with a knife. You are the one not paying attention to the facts. In fact, you are not paying attention at all.

Are you under the impression that the 2nd Amendment cannot be modified? After all, there is nothing in the wording about what type of weapon you can own. That distinction was made by a court opinion. Court opinions change. That means that any change to the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment would be legal.

In the beginning or one paragraph you stated that you would gladly break the law of the land. At the end of that same paragraph you state that gun owners are more responsible. How do you balance those two statements? You have stated that you will only follow those laws that you agree with. That is hardly the position of a responsible citizen.

Like more of your ilk, you have displayed that you are not at all rational. Hardly a ringing endorsement for gun ownership.
 
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