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(The Weekly Standard)   NBC News talking head David Gregory chides NRAs Wayne LaPierre for even considering the notion of having armed guards at schools. After the interview, he picked up his kids at their school...which has 11 on the security payroll   ( weeklystandard.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, NBC, mock trial, Sidwell Friends, payrolls, security  
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9347 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2012 at 11:07 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-24 02:14:49 PM  

Marine1: LargeCanine: Marine1: I fail to see the problem with the NRA's reasoning. My middle schools and high school had School Resource Officers from the police department/sheriff's office. They had their own offices. And yes, they were armed.

My main issue with the NRA's suggestion is that they are calling for Federal action on it.

Well, define "federal action". Like, at all schools?


Congressional action to appropriate the money, really. Anything the Feds fund is a Federal action. It always has strings attached, but that is another issue.

I have no issue with armed guards, many schools have them.

How about arming school staff or administeration trained and armed with bean bag shotguns? Volunteers can be trained and issued shotguns that are kept in locked safes. The NRA could provide training for free - they do that kind of thing all the time.

Much cheaper than full time armed guards. In my hometown high school, the PE teacher taught firearms safety with shotguns as part of the curriculum. He'd totally do this.
 
2012-12-24 02:15:08 PM  
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-24 02:16:55 PM  

Brian Ryanberger: This is a lot like Al Gore lecturing us all on how we are killing the planet with everything we do in our lives and yet its ok for him to pollute the skies as he rides around on a jet telling lies everywhere.


Not really.

Gore was a twat waffle, but being against mandatory armed security in every schools doesn't mean you think it is wrong for some schools .
 
2012-12-24 02:16:57 PM  

skullkrusher: True, but by that logic, for an effective deterrent, you're looking at the level of protection at Gregory's school for pretty much every school across the nation. And all you need to do is look at the TSA to see where that's headed.

there's nothing to say that the security in Gregory's kids' school isn't overkill. Of course there's nothing to say it is underkill to totally make up a term. 11 armed guards isn't gonna be able to stop a coordinated attack by 20 highly trained jihadists, for example. The Secret Service would obviously be busy making sure that Malia and Sascha are safe rather than prioritizing the lives of the other students so they may or may not be much use in protecting them depending on the situation.



they are all probably working cops and probably only a couple on duty at any given time because they are working their real jobs. probably need 11 on payroll just to get the schedule without any holes. just a guess.
 
2012-12-24 02:18:30 PM  

liam76: Gore was a twat waffle, but being against mandatory armed security in every schools doesn't mean you think it is wrong for some schools .


?
 
2012-12-24 02:19:16 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: True, but by that logic, for an effective deterrent, you're looking at the level of protection at Gregory's school for pretty much every school across the nation. And all you need to do is look at the TSA to see where that's headed.


Which is why I favor mandatory firearms training and CCW licenses for teachers, instead of separate armed guards. If a teacher can't be trusted to accurately identify threats, how can she be trusted to accurately identify bullying? If a teacher can't be trusted not to go postal if they have a gun, why should she be trusted not to go postal with anything else at hand? If a teacher can't keep the kids from grabbing her gun, how can she keep the kids from grabbing any of the lab equipment she keeps stored?
 
2012-12-24 02:21:21 PM  
Senator Diane Feinstein is a strong advocate of gun control---for the commoners.

However she carries a concealed pistol for her own protection.

I do not see too many aristocrats willing to put themserlves in the same danger the common people are expected to endure.

Double standard as usual?
 
2012-12-24 02:22:17 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Which is why I favor mandatory firearms training and CCW licenses for teachers, instead of separate armed guards. If a teacher can't be trusted to accurately identify threats, how can she be trusted to accurately identify bullying? If a teacher can't be trusted not to go postal if they have a gun, why should she be trusted not to go postal with anything else at hand? If a teacher can't keep the kids from grabbing her gun, how can she keep the kids from grabbing any of the lab equipment she keeps stored?


Why should our teachers teach, when they can just stand in permanent Condition Yellow over a class of potential armed threats?
 
2012-12-24 02:23:08 PM  
There's too much stupid in this thread to read the whole thing, but we haven't verified that these security guys are actual armed police right? They could be just dudes in clip on ties and ill fitting flammable blazers.
 
2012-12-24 02:25:09 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Why should our teachers teach, when they can just stand in permanent Condition Yellow over a class of potential armed threats?


Why should our CCW licensees have any jobs, when they're all obviously too paranoid to interact with anyone else and should all be locked up?
 
2012-12-24 02:26:16 PM  
It's almost as if the left is taking a play from the right-wing. If we can't remove guns now, let's put enough regulations on owning one that it is very difficult to do. Kind of like the regulations put on abortion providers in the past few months. They didn't outright ban abortion, but by putting harsh regulations on the facilities, abortions are harder too come by in several states.

Sucks to be hit with your own tactics, doesn't it?
 
2012-12-24 02:26:46 PM  
assets.diylol.com
 
2012-12-24 02:29:45 PM  

liam76: Brian Ryanberger: This is a lot like Al Gore lecturing us all on how we are killing the planet with everything we do in our lives and yet its ok for him to pollute the skies as he rides around on a jet telling lies everywhere.

Not really.

Gore was a twat waffle, but being against mandatory armed security in every schools doesn't mean you think it is wrong for some schools .



you got it mixed up.

being against security in some schools doesn't mean you are against it in all schools. You wording totally backwards. Being against security in all schools would include whatever schools fall into the "some" category
 
2012-12-24 02:30:08 PM  

relcec: liam76: Gore was a twat waffle, but being against mandatory armed security in every schools doesn't mean you think it is wrong for some schools .

?


What is too complicated for you there?
 
2012-12-24 02:33:14 PM  

liam76: relcec: liam76: Gore was a twat waffle, but being against mandatory armed security in every schools doesn't mean you think it is wrong for some schools .

?

What is too complicated for you there?


sorry, I kept missing a word for some reason. why is it wrong for other schools? too expensive?
and no one said anything was mandatory.
 
2012-12-24 02:33:24 PM  

stirfrybry: liam76: Brian Ryanberger: This is a lot like Al Gore lecturing us all on how we are killing the planet with everything we do in our lives and yet its ok for him to pollute the skies as he rides around on a jet telling lies everywhere.

Not really.

Gore was a twat waffle, but being against mandatory armed security in every schools doesn't mean you think it is wrong for some schools .


you got it mixed up.

being against security in some schools doesn't mean you are against it in all schools. You wording totally backwards. Being against security in all schools would include whatever schools fall into the "some" category


My wording isn't backwards.

Maybe you missed the mandatory part.
 
2012-12-24 02:35:40 PM  
'meet the press' airs on sunday. he picked his kid up from school on a sunday? was it an armed and guarded sunday school? because that sounds just like what republican jesus would have wanted...

/merry xmas politics tab
//may your flames be merry and bright :-)
 
2012-12-24 02:36:18 PM  
Gregory's point was that putting armed guards in every school is not a solution to gun violence in America. That's very different from saying no schools should employ armed guards. Then again, conservatives were never known for their attention to nuance or logic, so subby gets some slack.
 
2012-12-24 02:36:42 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: True, but by that logic, for an effective deterrent, you're looking at the level of protection at Gregory's school for pretty much every school across the nation. And all you need to do is look at the TSA to see where that's headed.

Which is why I favor mandatory firearms training and CCW licenses for teachers, instead of separate armed guards. If a teacher can't be trusted to accurately identify threats, how can she be trusted to accurately identify bullying? If a teacher can't be trusted not to go postal if they have a gun, why should she be trusted not to go postal with anything else at hand? If a teacher can't keep the kids from grabbing her gun, how can she keep the kids from grabbing any of the lab equipment she keeps stored?


This is a gem of lunacy. The tone and content is just priceless - it glosses over the fact that almost no one that would want to be a teacher would want anything to do with carrying a gun. I just wacks out into crazyville speculation to rebut imaginary objections - "Oh the kids are gonna grab her gun, huh? Well - no way, because - lab equipment! Take that!"
 
2012-12-24 02:39:41 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Why should our CCW licensees have any jobs, when they're all obviously too paranoid to interact with anyone else and should all be locked up?


Why should I bother having a discussion with you if you're going to fly off into the Magical Land of Stupid Hyperbole at the drop of a hat?

I have no problems if someone with a CCW can and wants to teach. Not everyone in America, and especially not everyone in the classroom, has or wants that mentality.
 
2012-12-24 02:39:51 PM  

noitsnot: This is a gem of lunacy. The tone and content is just priceless - it glosses over the fact that almost no one that would want to be a teacher would want anything to do with carrying a gun.


Maybe that's the part of the public school system that needs to be fixed.

/what, are you afraid of change?
//oh right, the status quo is a GOOD thing when it's controlled by the left
 
2012-12-24 02:40:44 PM  

relcec: liam76: relcec: liam76: Gore was a twat waffle, but being against mandatory armed security in every schools doesn't mean you think it is wrong for some schools .

?

What is too complicated for you there?

sorry, I kept missing a word for some reason. why is it wrong for other schools? too expensive?
and no one said anything was mandatory.


If you are calling on the fed to take action on something like this that is normally what it means.

In a public school, yes cost comes into play. And before people cry about not caring about poor kids, they have a lot of more important issues to worry about than mass shooters. If we were funding public schools on par with the school in question a conversation on the value of armed guards may be worth entertaining.

The other issue to look at is risk. What are the chances that an average school gets stacked by a mass murderer? What are the odds that someone will try and go after one of the kids in the school in question?
 
2012-12-24 02:44:31 PM  

Fart_Machine: walkingtall: Fart_Machine: Thank you for proving my point.

Really? When the governor of one of the largest states goes on record as saying that forcibly removing guns from people is on the table that means I somehow talking in hyperbole? That im claiming that there is a prevailing idea to completely walk all over the 2nd amendment? So you are just going to sit there with your fingers in your ears because this is a right you dont like others to have so it will be ok to take it away and yet somehow my pointing out the wrongness of this means I am beating on strawmen?

Please point out where I said it was a right nobody should have or that I want it taken away. I'll wait. Just keep digging...


The SS would need guns, so it's clear you were not saying that nobody should have guns.
 
2012-12-24 02:46:38 PM  

divgradcurl: 'meet the press' airs on sunday. he picked his kid up from school on a sunday? was it an armed and guarded sunday school? because that sounds just like what republican jesus would have wanted...

/merry xmas politics tab
//may your flames be merry and bright :-)


hey, this isn't even in the politics tab! well i guess main pagers get to have some fun also. so murry christmas to you guys too
 
2012-12-24 02:46:52 PM  
The Catch 22 of firearms: the more guns in the hands of the law abiding, the more guns are going to be in the hands of criminals.

Also - gun manufacturers are running profit-making businesses. One needs to look at their marketing efforts with the same healthy skepticism one looks at the marketing efforts of any corporation. No matter the issue, one always needs to Follow The Money.
 
2012-12-24 02:49:19 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Maybe that's the part of the public school system that needs to be fixed.

/what, are you afraid of change?
//oh right, the status quo is a GOOD thing when it's controlled by the left


No, sorry, we're not conforming to your fears just because you can't conform to ours. Why are you afraid of change?
 
2012-12-24 02:49:22 PM  

liam76: sorry, I kept missing a word for some reason. why is it wrong for other schools? too expensive?
and no one said anything was mandatory.

If you are calling on the fed to take action on something like this that is normally what it means.



that's not usually how government works, especially when the feds are entering ground occupied by the states. they offer a carrot and a stick. no mandate.
 
2012-12-24 02:50:07 PM  
An armed guard at each school, combined with policies to lower the number of semiautomatics in society. And the ability to fast-track psychiatrically commit the potentially homicidal. That's an effective approach.
 
2012-12-24 02:55:57 PM  

JungleBoogie: And the ability to fast-track psychiatrically commit the potentially homicidal.


Timid loner who likes to play video games? That's a committin'.
 
2012-12-24 02:59:02 PM  

JungleBoogie: the ability to fast-track psychiatrically commit the potentially homicidal. That's an effective approach.


Isn't anyone with a gun "potentially homicidal"?
 
2012-12-24 03:01:19 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: No, sorry, we're not conforming to your fears just because you can't conform to ours. Why are you afraid of change?


Because the changes being proposed have been implemented many times in many other countries in the last century alone, and the result has always been the complete elimination of individual freedom and the creation of an authoritarian state.

/seriously, it's not like you can feign ignorance of either recent history or the definition of insanity any more
//so that leaves your only motivation being the desire to see the free world burn down so you can try to become tyrant of the ashes
///better to be king of hell than a mere president of heaven, after all
 
2012-12-24 03:04:41 PM  
Only liberals and socialists should have their children protected. Any other ideology indoctrinating a child should place that child at risk. We need re-education camps and people's courts. Guns should only be allowed in the military, and special security details for liberals and socialists only. Ban everything else. Raise all taxes to the levels of church tithing. Ban all organized religions. Ban all thought that doesn't comply to the goals of the state. Kill those who disagree.

/amidoinitright?
 
2012-12-24 03:04:56 PM  

LargeCanine: Marine1: LargeCanine: Marine1: I fail to see the problem with the NRA's reasoning. My middle schools and high school had School Resource Officers from the police department/sheriff's office. They had their own offices. And yes, they were armed.

My main issue with the NRA's suggestion is that they are calling for Federal action on it.

Well, define "federal action". Like, at all schools?

Congressional action to appropriate the money, really. Anything the Feds fund is a Federal action. It always has strings attached, but that is another issue.

I have no issue with armed guards, many schools have them.

How about arming school staff or administeration trained and armed with bean bag shotguns? Volunteers can be trained and issued shotguns that are kept in locked safes. The NRA could provide training for free - they do that kind of thing all the time.

Much cheaper than full time armed guards. In my hometown high school, the PE teacher taught firearms safety with shotguns as part of the curriculum. He'd totally do this.


Heh. Firearms safety as a part of the curriculum.

Boy did we grow up in far different worlds.
 
2012-12-24 03:06:10 PM  

whatshisname: JungleBoogie: the ability to fast-track psychiatrically commit the potentially homicidal. That's an effective approach.

Isn't anyone with a gun "potentially homicidal"?


Anyone with a dick is equipped to commit rape, shouldn't we lock those up too?

(Or just register them)
 
2012-12-24 03:09:01 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Oh, I remember now! Heh. Day-em! You really are good at the pretzel logic.


Now that's praise from Caesar.
 
2012-12-24 03:09:17 PM  
The only school I attended where nobody thought armed security was a priority was in Saudi Arabia.
 
2012-12-24 03:09:44 PM  

whatshisname: JungleBoogie: the ability to fast-track psychiatrically commit the potentially homicidal. That's an effective approach.

Isn't anyone with a gun "potentially homicidal"?


True. But some have a higher potential than others.
 
2012-12-24 03:12:09 PM  

special20: Only liberals and socialists should have their children protected. Any other ideology indoctrinating a child should place that child at risk. We need re-education camps and people's courts. Guns should only be allowed in the military, and special security details for liberals and socialists only. Ban everything else. Raise all taxes to the levels of church tithing. Ban all organized religions. Ban all thought that doesn't comply to the goals of the state. Kill those who disagree.

/amidoinitright?


I once turned the heat up in a room. Someone walked in and said, "Oh my God, it's like a blast furnace in here!"

// Hyperbole. Not just a geometric shape, anymore.
 
2012-12-24 03:12:23 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: No, sorry, we're not conforming to your fears just because you can't conform to ours. Why are you afraid of change?

Because the changes being proposed have been implemented many times in many other countries in the last century alone, and the result has always been the complete elimination of individual freedom and the creation of an authoritarian state.

/seriously, it's not like you can feign ignorance of either recent history or the definition of insanity any more
//so that leaves your only motivation being the desire to see the free world burn down so you can try to become tyrant of the ashes
///better to be king of hell than a mere president of heaven, after all


Hey, we just want people to stop worshiping the gun. King George III isn't coming back. The only countries in any position to invade the US are Canada and Mexico. There will be people scared to death of the government for whatever reason they can think of.

I've suggested a variety of things we can do to work on the problem, such as better mental health care, reform the prison system to actually help and rehabilitate prisoners, tackling the root causes of crime such as poverty, better regulation and tracking of weapons, and a fundamental shift in America's attitude towards guns and violence. But apparently those are too expensive, would take too long to do, and "Fark the poor, homeless, and retards". The only solution many people want to see is "More guns! More guns! Guns for everyone and for everywhere!", because adding more of what's part of the problem always fixes the problem.
 
2012-12-24 03:12:51 PM  

what_now: Ok, let's say we put armed guards in every school. How do we pay for it?

Raise your hand if you support tax increases for this.


The hard bit will be puttingenough armed guards in the school. One or two guards isn't going to cut it over the sizes of schools. Some campuses we dozens of acres with dozens of buildings. Such schools are likely to need a few dozen guards on duty minimum. So say 20-40 per school might help catch a shooter. That might save avoid 50 lives per decade if we are really lucky. Not bad for $200-500 billion a year.
 
2012-12-24 03:15:21 PM  

olddinosaur: Anyone with a dick is equipped to commit rape, shouldn't we lock those up too?


Steven Hawking has a dick.  Is he equipped to commit rape?

Extrapolative Arguments!  To the Surrealmobile!
 
2012-12-24 03:20:46 PM  

thamike: olddinosaur: Anyone with a dick is equipped to commit rape, shouldn't we lock those up too?

Steven Hawking has a dick.  Is he equipped to commit rape?

Extrapolative Arguments!  To the Surrealmobile!


Hawkins wheelchair is called the surreal mobile, and it helps with rape!

Guy keeps getting cooler!
 
KIA
2012-12-24 03:23:33 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: There will be people scared to death of the government for whatever reason they can think of.


Yes, because governments have never done evil.

Even the US Government.

Ever.

Therefore fear of government is irrational. It is always there to help solve a problem or commiserate in a hard time. It's like a best friend composed of faceless bureaucrats thousands of miles away whose sole interest is to make your personal life better. After all, if your personal life was already fantastic, you wouldn't need a best friend, would you?

/ sarcasm off. Off, I say!
 
2012-12-24 03:24:37 PM  
what_now: Ok, let's say we put armed guards in every school. How do we pay for it?

Raise your hand if you support tax increases for this.


How bout we take 5 billion out of the 100 billion losses for loan guarantees to green energy companies instead. We will let you keep the 95% waste just give us 5% to protect the chriddren
 
2012-12-24 03:26:12 PM  

Jarhead_h: sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net


I agree.

Gun ownership should be limited to those qualified for the Secret Service.
 
2012-12-24 03:26:25 PM  

thamike: olddinosaur: Anyone with a dick is equipped to commit rape, shouldn't we lock those up too?

Steven Hawking has a dick.  Is he equipped to commit rape?

Extrapolative Arguments!  To the Surrealmobile!


You never know.
 
2012-12-24 03:26:33 PM  

thamike: olddinosaur: Anyone with a dick is equipped to commit rape, shouldn't we lock those up too?

Steven Hawking has a dick.  Is he equipped to commit rape?

Extrapolative Arguments!  To the Surrealmobile!


Steven Hawking probably has a zero-point-energy powered exoskeleton at home just for rape night.
 
2012-12-24 03:30:52 PM  

kxs401: Nabb1: kxs401: I'm.... outraged?

Wait, no I'm not. Just because one school where lots of children who might be potential targets attend needs guards, that doesn't mean all schools need guards. Why are republicans constantly so pouty and outraged? Does it make them happy?

Hey, I'm with you. Some kids need security. Why should the hoi polloi get that sort of service?Security costs money, and those resources need to be spared only on a certain class of people.

Oh, clearly. All Americans should get exactly the same level of day-to-day protection. That makes perfect sense.


school security is a right not a privilege just for the %
 
2012-12-24 03:31:45 PM  
I am gratified that this has morphed into a Stephen Hawking rape thread. That has a lot more promise for fresh ideas than the bi-daily Fark gun thread.
 
2012-12-24 03:43:32 PM  
The NRA: by their own admission, selling you the disease, *and* the cure.
 
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