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(Al Jazeera)   Seven killed, many injured in apparent chemical weapons attack in Syria   (blogs.aljazeera.com) divider line 257
    More: News, chemical weapons, blurred vision, shortness of breaths  
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20582 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2012 at 12:18 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-24 02:05:26 AM  

Insatiable Jesus: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Didn't Russia just deliver new mobile SAM launchers and the personel to help operate them?

Probably will be a true "no fly zone" if this goes down.

proxy wars! woo!

Also, a fantastic war tard post, just in time!

Link

Russia is not giving up a Med port.


I don't think we're gonna push on Russia too hard here. They can make things very difficult for us simply by closing the gas pipelines into W. Europe.
 
2012-12-24 02:06:30 AM  
as i said all along the aztecs were right.
 
2012-12-24 02:08:21 AM  
Side effects reported include nausea, relaxed muscles, blurred vision, and breathing difficulties.

So: either chemical weapons, or too much E at the rave?
 
2012-12-24 02:13:08 AM  

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Come to Syria. It's a gas.


Come to Lebanon, come stay with friends.

/obscure?
 
2012-12-24 02:14:33 AM  

Bontesla: Is the article equating the rebel network with terrorists?


One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. George Washington was a terrorist leader.

Considering the source, yeah, they are going to be called terrorists.
 
2012-12-24 02:15:33 AM  

Triumph: MadMattressMack: This whole thing screams rebel idiots. And they scare me far worse than Assad does.

The propaganda flip side to this is an article I read a couple days ago that in the Rebel-held areas of Aleppo, makeshift police squads were already trying to stop women from driving and forcing people to pray. Truth is a scarce commodity in Syria these days, so mostly you're stuck with what you choose to believe.


I believe it is hell there. As in both sides are bad. It's the WWII troops of eastern front Russia meets Japanese troops who invaded China. No matter who wins in this, the world loses.

We lost out when we didn't step up at the beginning and the rebels turned to ultra conservative Muslims since they had guns, money, fighters, training, and will. Now they're winning the battles and don't really care about the rulers in exile. Especially when the rulers are telling them they shouldn't be doing things like executing prisoners. When the rulers in exile return I wonder just how much leverage they'll have over these guys who are patrolling the towns.

Assad is all over the news on what he's doing and I don't think it would be much of a stretch to label him a bad guy.

Alas, I don't think there's a dog in this race that I like.
 
2012-12-24 02:21:21 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-24 02:33:01 AM  
Nuke the war criminal.
 
2012-12-24 02:43:32 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Ummmm... I thought what they had the most of was Sarin. It would do a lot more damage than 7 dead.

I'm hopeful they have not deployed them yet, if ever.


You're assuming proper mixing and deployment of the weapon.
 
2012-12-24 03:00:08 AM  

Zyme: Nuke the war criminal.


Yeah. That totally won't kill anyone but Assad.
 
2012-12-24 03:01:21 AM  
Yup, we're farked.
 
2012-12-24 03:01:34 AM  

2wolves: I hope this is propaganda.


Wouldn't surprise me, since the article lists "activists" as its source.
 
2012-12-24 03:03:26 AM  

cretinbob: George Washington was a terrorist leader.


and decided he wouldn't be king. he was an idiot.
 
2012-12-24 03:04:59 AM  

crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: Popcorn Johnny: If true, it is so farking on.

Your warboner is showing.

That would be an awesome name for a metal band!

WARBONER!!!

May I use it? The name, I mean.

Yes, on condition: the next time you have sex, your partner has to shout my name.

"Verbaltoxin" or "Theodoric?"

The former.

My left hand will have to learn sign language, but OK!


Keyboard. Need a new one now. Thanks.
 
2012-12-24 03:05:29 AM  

fusillade762: Side effects reported include nausea, relaxed muscles, blurred vision, and breathing difficulties.

Aside from the breathing difficulties that sounds like something I like to call "Saturday night".


While it may or may not be a chemical weapon, it is most certainly NOT Sarin. Sarin's effects are:

Initial symptoms following exposure to sarin are a runny nose, tightness in the chest and constriction of the pupils. Soon after, the victim has difficulty breathing and experiences nausea and drooling. As the victim continues to lose control of bodily functions, the victim vomits, defecates and urinates. This phase is followed by twitching and jerking. Ultimately, the victim becomes comatose and suffocates in a series of convulsive spasms.

The Aum Shinrikyio attack in the Tokyo subway, using an "impure" form of Sarin, and certainly an inefficient method of deployment, resulted in 13 deaths and over 6,000 injuries; of those, at least 500 were considered serious (mostly breathing and vision difficulties). So while this could well be a gas or chemical attack of some kind, the chances of it being Sarin are slim to none based on the symptoms and apparent dead and injured. It doesn't even, at this point, sound like a nerve agent.
 
2012-12-24 03:08:27 AM  
I can't even imagine how hellish it must be over there. Even if the gas attack hasn't happened, it just seems awful beyond belief.
 
2012-12-24 03:13:58 AM  
Nothing to see here....between Bushiat reading my pet goat and Oblama strummin' his ukelele.....Syria is as good as gold......
 
2012-12-24 03:17:53 AM  

verbaltoxin: crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: Popcorn Johnny: If true, it is so farking on.

Your warboner is showing.

That would be an awesome name for a metal band!

WARBONER!!!

May I use it? The name, I mean.

Yes, on condition: the next time you have sex, your partner has to shout my name.

"Verbaltoxin" or "Theodoric?"

The former.

My left hand will have to learn sign language, but OK!

The safest sex is with yourself. Who knows what you like better than you?


Ick. I know where my hands have been.
 
2012-12-24 03:20:55 AM  
According to "the leading Arabic international daily Assad is willing to leave, with 142 at his side
 
2012-12-24 03:21:52 AM  
I mentioned earlier that this is unconfirmed as it is from a blogger for Al Jezeera, so we just do not know yet what really happened. For those of you talking about how bad it must be there, we do know this:


Assad just bombed a motherfarking breadline killing women and children trying to buy food


/From the main page
//being reported by NPR too
 
2012-12-24 03:25:28 AM  
Analysis on the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/23/syria-crisis-russian-mili t ary-presence
 
2012-12-24 03:46:04 AM  
WTF is wrong with these people? Even the Germans and Brits were decent enough to chill on Christma in 1914. Where in the hell is their Christmas spirit?
 
2012-12-24 04:02:22 AM  
Probably not sarin. The symptoms don't match. It could be old, but typically you store the chemical separate from the dispersal agent.

Doesn't mean someone didn't use a chem weapon. Too many question marks at this point.

/I so hope this is false.
 
2012-12-24 04:34:55 AM  

verbaltoxin: crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: Popcorn Johnny: If true, it is so farking on.

Your warboner is showing.

That would be an awesome name for a metal band!

WARBONER!!!

May I use it? The name, I mean.

Yes, on condition: the next time you have sex, your partner has to shout my name.

"Verbaltoxin" or "Theodoric?"

The former.

My left hand will have to learn sign language, but OK!

The safest sex is with yourself. Who knows what you like better than you?


As I guy I used to work with always responded when I said I was going to do a calculation by hand:

"A hand job is the quickest job!"
 
2012-12-24 04:44:26 AM  
If this is a chemical attack by government forces, it would inflict large numbers of casualties (maybe not deaths, but exposure and symptoms requiring medical assistance). Pumping gas into rebel area homes by government troops doesn't seem right as the government forces would need protective equipment and be sitting ducks in hostile areas while distributing the material. Chemical deployment via aircraft bombs, missiles, or artillery would seem much more likely as you don't put your own forces at much risk, and you can far more effectively distribute the material. I am not saying something bad didn't happen and these people weren't exposed to something harmful, but the story just doesn't seem right.

Perhaps this was an accidental release. Chemical warheads have been distributed to other bases and field units. Rebels have been overrunning government bases, units and using equipment and ammunition scavenged. Perhaps a chemical artillery shell was unknowningly taken for repurposing into an IED and during the modification, the material was accidently released. Often warheads don't explicitly state what they are and rely on color codes or other notations that the millitary may recognize, but civilians may not. Saying someone accidently released material isn't helpful to either side as they want to demonize their foes and potentially gain support from other nations, so you spin it saying your oppenent did this horrible act intentionally.
 
2012-12-24 04:50:43 AM  

shower_in_my_socks: Either there are a lot more than 7 people dead, or this wasn't a chemical attack.


Sarin gas was released in a Tokyo metro back in 1995 and "only" twelve people died.
 
2012-12-24 05:08:41 AM  

Kalashinator: shower_in_my_socks: Either there are a lot more than 7 people dead, or this wasn't a chemical attack.

Sarin gas was released in a Tokyo metro back in 1995 and "only" twelve people died.


Yes, but 50 suffered significant injury, and hundreds needed medical assistance for temporary symptoms in the Tokyo subway attack. That is the seeming issue here with the reported deliberate attack. There doesn't seem to be the wounded or affected but living that require medical treatment you would expect from a coordinated attack by the government and the reports to me don't make a lot of sense on how you would deploy them with the tools the government has available (aircraft bombs, artillery, missiles (short and medium range).
 
2012-12-24 05:16:10 AM  
Assad isn't going to believe the strength of the letter he's getting from the UN over this!
 
2012-12-24 05:51:33 AM  

croesius: How DARE a country use chemical weapons! No one is allowed to...oh, wait...

Well, how DARE anyone ELSE use them!



Willy P is used to create smoke screens and destroy equipment. It's not my fault is the enemy is still holding the equipment when the WP air bursts over it.

Oh, and an AK-47 is equipment.
 
2012-12-24 06:04:00 AM  
Just woke up and saw this. Is it still being ruled a chemical weapons attack?
 
2012-12-24 06:08:48 AM  

somedude210: Just woke up and saw this. Is it still being ruled a chemical weapons attack?


No confirmation on any press website including the Al Jazeera site even though it's been several hours. I say it's false.
 
2012-12-24 06:17:20 AM  

rwfan: somedude210: Just woke up and saw this. Is it still being ruled a chemical weapons attack?

No confirmation on any press website including the Al Jazeera site even though it's been several hours. I say it's false.


okay, noted. Hopefully we get clarification soon
 
2012-12-24 06:35:17 AM  

Daedalus27: Kalashinator: shower_in_my_socks: Either there are a lot more than 7 people dead, or this wasn't a chemical attack.

Sarin gas was released in a Tokyo metro back in 1995 and "only" twelve people died.

Yes, but 50 suffered significant injury, and hundreds needed medical assistance for temporary symptoms in the Tokyo subway attack. That is the seeming issue here with the reported deliberate attack. There doesn't seem to be the wounded or affected but living that require medical treatment you would expect from a coordinated attack by the government and the reports to me don't make a lot of sense on how you would deploy them with the tools the government has available (aircraft bombs, artillery, missiles (short and medium range).


The subway attacks were in an enclosed area with a lot of people in it. That makes the high number injured more probable regardless of the dispersal method. The majority of people who were injured in thise attacks were not actually affected by the nerve agent. Some were crushing type injuries, but a huge number were psychosomatic reactions to what they thought was going to happen to them. G series nerve agents are not persistant, which will lead to a lower body count than the V series of agents. If not properly aerosolized, they will often be absorbed through the skin rather than breathed in which will result in fewer deaths and a longer period before death, sometimes up to a couple of hours. They are also often largely destroyed by the dispersal method if it involves any form of explosives such as an arty shell or rocket if said shell is not properly constructed. These agents also cause vision issues, nausea, and can cause something caled flaccid paralysis which would likely be reported as relaxed muscles. Everyone jumps to sarin because that is the agent that gets a lot of headlines (not sure why, there are several worse things out there) but there are a lot of nerve agents out there. This specifically makes me think Tabun (GA) based on the very limited info.
 
2012-12-24 06:40:34 AM  
I would not be at all surprised if this turns out to be something cooked up by the rebels, but even if it was the government side, so what? If radical Islamists, funded and armed by a foreign power, were attacking the US and using tactics such as car bombs, beheadings, etc. we would throw everything in our arsenal at them if things weren't going our way, including nukes. Why should we hold the Syrian government to a higher standard?
 
2012-12-24 06:52:05 AM  
One thing that would help would be seeing the pupils of the people who were effected. Pinpointed pupils are really the telling trait of nerve agents. It did appear in the poor quality video that a couple of the people may have had very restricted pupils. There are other things such as opiates that can cause pinpointed pupils, but the other effects combined with severly restricted pupils would almost definately be signs of nerve agent exposure.
 
2012-12-24 06:52:57 AM  

qualtrough: I would not be at all surprised if this turns out to be something cooked up by the rebels, but even if it was the government side, so what? If radical Islamists, funded and armed by a foreign power, were attacking the US and using tactics such as car bombs, beheadings, etc. we would throw everything in our arsenal at them if things weren't going our way, including nukes. Why should we hold the Syrian government to a higher standard?


The US has repeatedly stood up for human rights around the world (most recently in Lybia and Syria), and we use extreme caution when we send our soldiers into combat situations to mitigate collateral damage.  What evidence do you have to suggest we would reject those ideals and "throw everything in our arsenal" at terrorists?
 
2012-12-24 06:53:39 AM  
Did I tell you the Democrat/al Qaeda alliance would set off some chemical weapons over there as an excuse to get the US involved after Obama "warned" the government not to use chemical weapons?

Yes, I did.
 
2012-12-24 06:54:41 AM  

somedude210: rwfan: somedude210: Just woke up and saw this. Is it still being ruled a chemical weapons attack?

No confirmation on any press website including the Al Jazeera site even though it's been several hours. I say it's false.

okay, noted. Hopefully we get clarification soon


The Times of Israel and the Business Insider is reporting it, now.  Search "Chemical Attack" on Google News and you'll see them.
 
2012-12-24 06:56:11 AM  
It's been nice knowing most of you.

:(
 
2012-12-24 06:56:18 AM  

Noam Chimpsky: Did I tell you the Democrat/al Qaeda alliance would set off some chemical weapons over there as an excuse to get the US involved after Obama "warned" the government not to use chemical weapons?

Yes, I did.


You're ideas are enlightening and riveting.  I want to hear more of your conspiracy theory, sir.
 
2012-12-24 06:57:30 AM  

qualtrough: I would not be at all surprised if this turns out to be something cooked up by the rebels, but even if it was the government side, so what? If radical Islamists, funded and armed by a foreign power, were attacking the US and using tactics such as car bombs, beheadings, etc. we would throw everything in our arsenal at them if things weren't going our way, including nukes. Why should we hold the Syrian government to a higher standard?


You sound very informed
 
2012-12-24 07:17:55 AM  
Great, another war. Awesome.
 
2012-12-24 07:18:14 AM  

ultraholland: I just wanted to say warboner.


i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-24 07:25:17 AM  

DerekSD: eraser8: DerekSD: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRBONER!!!!!


/vegan
//chef

Okay, this is a little bit off topic...but, I have to know:

Are you a chef who'll cook anything but just happens to be personally vegan?

Or, are you a chef who refrains from cooking anything that comes from an animal?

c: someone who wanders around and about youtube and is fond of nonsequiters that appeal to my f'ed up sense of humor.

/http://www.youtube.com/user/VeganBlackMetalChef


ummmmm....
uh...
well....
i am not usually at a loss for words... this is new.
/interesting recipe?
 
2012-12-24 07:28:05 AM  
Yeah, I don't believe it. These videos started showing up yesterday morning. But as long as everyone else believes it...
 
2012-12-24 07:31:47 AM  

JonnyG: Yeah, I don't believe it. These videos started showing up yesterday morning. But as long as everyone else believes it...


Do you have a link to these videos from yesterday morning?  That would go a long way to debunk this if it is FUD.
 
2012-12-24 07:41:59 AM  

cretinbob: doglover: NewportBarGuy: It would do a lot more damage than 7 dead.

Not if you're ready for it.

And not if it's a limited release to make sure it works.

[s1.static.gotsmile.net image 330x260]


Time for the ASS-ad to get kicked hard.

(And of course another excuse for gas to jump a buck or two for a gallon!)
 
2012-12-24 08:05:40 AM  
The wheezing and lack of snot is from the obnoxious smell of bs?

(also, "WOar-BOanArrrrrrR")
 
2012-12-24 08:12:45 AM  
Cry havoc and let slip the boners of war.
 
2012-12-24 08:23:47 AM  
NewportBarGuy
2012-12-23 11:07:17 PM
Bontesla: You've already lost the publicity war if news articles are making these claims against you.

Assad is a billionaire. All he has to do is say No Mas and he can go live in Dubai for the rest of his life. If he uses these weapons, I can tell you right now the Joint Chiefs will recommend that Obama kill him and his whole family.

Biological weapons release... it's not going to need any help from the media. NATO and US leadership will assault without much question.

Not to be a weapons Nazi, but Sarin is a chemical weapon, not a biological weapon. A biological weapon is something like Anthrax, Tularemia, Plague, Smallpox and is bacterial, viral, or fungi.
 
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