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(Al Jazeera)   Seven killed, many injured in apparent chemical weapons attack in Syria   (blogs.aljazeera.com) divider line 258
    More: News, chemical weapons, blurred vision, shortness of breaths  
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20575 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2012 at 12:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-24 01:06:44 AM
Hospital videos are coming into Youtube. Don't take it as definitive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLl0S85Krs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXbhcHvbJTg
 
2012-12-24 01:06:46 AM

Lighting: Apos: MIRV888: OK, I know I'm going to regret this because it's fark, but is aljazeera considered a reliable enough news service to make this credible?


It's a very credible news organization, which is precisely why I believe it. They've rarely, if ever, dropped the ball on a story, especially one of this magnitude.

This is not actually being reported by the main Al Jazeera site. This article is on their blog page, and while the live bloggers they have are well vetted, there is no way for them to know what really is happening without better analysis. What they do know is some bad stuff got sprayed, some of the affected perished and others have been harmed. This is bad, but we have no way of knowing how bad it is, or who even released the toxin. So far it is just rumor unless the reporter actually witnessed the deployment.
I get better news on what is happening in the US from Al Jazeera than most of the media here.


Duly noted-and you're quite right. I'll check on the main website later.
 
2012-12-24 01:07:56 AM

eraser8: DerekSD: c: someone who wanders around and about youtube and is fond of nonsequiters that appeal to my f'ed up sense of humor.

Dang.


well, i have cooked a few meals using vegan black metal chef's recipes and they've been pretty good.

not as good as his youtube channel, though.

i was flipping through some of his videos and clicking back here to fark. i saw 'warboner' and thought a split-second about vbmc's tongue-in-cheek style and that post was born.
 
2012-12-24 01:09:07 AM

crypticsatellite: ...here we go...?


glass parking lot
it is the only way to be sure
 
2012-12-24 01:10:26 AM

NewportBarGuy: Ummmm... I thought what they had the most of was Sarin. It would do a lot more damage than 7 dead.

I'm hopeful they have not deployed them yet, if ever.


Maybe their production or delivery systems are bad.

verbaltoxin: crypticsatellite: verbaltoxin: It seems that only Al Jazeera is reporting this at the moment.

Yeah, though, usually Al Jazeera is pretty good about such things...of course, I don't know if they have the same standards for blogs on their domain.

Link

This link makes things more confusing. This site claims it was the rebels using it on Syrian troops.


No surprise given the site.

MIRV888: OK, I know I'm going to regret this because it's fark, but is aljazeera considered a reliable enough news service to make this credible? I'm asking out of genuine ignorance here. I have no dog in the fight over news agencies.


So long as it's not in any way related to Israel or the Jews it's usually pretty good. Even when it is related to one or both of those it's usually just extremely slanted reporting rather than outright lies. (For example, a documentary about reporters being attacked. They focused mostly on the Occupied Territories even though most of the deaths were elsewhere. Also, on a quick listen you would think Israel was the main culprit but if you listened carefully you realized the reporters knew they had to be very careful not to look like a threat when dealing with IDF troops {look at a professional camera with mike head-on--it looks rather like you're looking down the barrel of an RPG!} but that they didn't fear a deliberate attack, only mistaken identity. They actually feared deliberate attacks from the Palestinians, though.)

UNC_Samurai: I put Al-Jazeera English up there with the BBC. They do actual farking journalism, and cover important stories instead of iPads and celebrity nipple slips.

But blogs on any news site should be looked at with a high degree of skepticism, especially when reporting on the chaotic conditions in combat areas.


Yeah, wartime reporting usually leaves a *LOT* to be desired. There's a reason for the term "fog of war"!
 
2012-12-24 01:12:53 AM

ultraholland: I just wanted to say warboner.


The warboner is like a dowsing rod. But instead of water, it leads one to battle.
 
2012-12-24 01:13:14 AM

webthing01: Don't bother the president.......... He's in Hawaii on vacationon the ranch in Texas.

[img822.imageshack.us image 500x709]


"It doesn't matter if I'm in Texas. The White House is wherever I am."
 
2012-12-24 01:13:40 AM
According to NPR, Syria has sarin and mustard gas, and may have VX. Mustard gas is a very old agent, my grandfather was gassed with it in the First World War, and survived.
 
2012-12-24 01:13:49 AM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: base935: As someone not getting chemically attacked, I have to ask how this affects me?

[assuming this report is true]
Assuming you are American, your President has drawn a line in the sand - "No chemical weapons or we will fark your shiat up" Cue the airstrikes and pictures of dismembered kids.
If you're not American, but rather a citizen of a NATO country, you will be required to follow along in whatever supportive role Obama dictates for you. Much like the recent foolishness in Libya.
If you are Russian or Chinese, you can sit back and laugh at A) American ineffectiveness at stopping this, and B) American assholishness in bombing civilians because of this. Or both.
If none of the above, you may resume random farking.


Russia had begun distancing themselves from Syria. Not sure about China.

Do not underestimate US air strikes to do the job
 
2012-12-24 01:16:45 AM
Well f*ck.
 
2012-12-24 01:17:36 AM

Triumph: Hospital videos are coming into Youtube. Don't take it as definitive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLl0S85Krs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXbhcHvbJTg



I'm skeptical, if only for the reason that those videos struck me as if I was watching a WWE vignette circa 1998-2003.
 
2012-12-24 01:17:41 AM
How DARE a country use chemical weapons! No one is allowed to...oh, wait...
static.guim.co.uk

Well, how DARE anyone ELSE use them!
 
2012-12-24 01:18:36 AM

MIRV888: OK, I know I'm going to regret this because it's fark, but is aljazeera considered a reliable enough news service to make this credible? I'm asking out of genuine ignorance here. I have no dog in the fight over news agencies.


From what I've gathered in the "who to trust" game, one should know that:

Al Jazeera treats anything having to do with Quatar with kidgloves,
RT is not a reliable source on what's going on within and possibly pertaining to Russia
- these are supposedly relatively narrow biases

The American media will not honestly report on anything that the .01% find threatening.
Fox News is not reliable about anything pertaining to reality.
- these are very broad biases and relatively difficult to account for
 
2012-12-24 01:19:02 AM

Triumph: Hospital videos are coming into Youtube. Don't take it as definitive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLl0S85Krs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXbhcHvbJTg


Holy Fark.
 
2012-12-24 01:23:26 AM
Still no verification from CNN, but apparently, the government sent the rebels a holiday arrangement of Scuds on the 21st. Any millitary farkers know how long it takes to swap out the conventional warhead on a Scud for a chemical payload?
 
2012-12-24 01:23:27 AM

doglover: Arumat: verbaltoxin: NewportBarGuy: verbaltoxin: Entertaining the notion that this is legit, it could've been a small-scale attack or a botched deployment, or some other random cause for low casualties. Very little has come out so far about this. I"m hesitant to make a call on anything at this point.

Or, weather patterns. Could be anything. If it's an actual use of the weapon... I say we take out all known sites of Assad leadership. Keep it like Libya. Take out the hard targets and let the various ground forces figure out the rest.

No leadership structure on this planet should be allowed to get away with a chemical attack. Just a brief pass through the CS room was enough to make me see just how f*cked up the entire notion of chemical warfare is.

Yep, I got to take a spin through the gas room myself, once upon a time. I almost cupped my hand to my face, and the instructors about sh*t a brick and stopped me. You don't even think about it. Then the snot, oh the snot. Everywhere.

Yeah, that was a fun part of "Warrior Week" (yeah, I know the AF is a joke to the other services). I actually kinda lucked out, because I was coming down with a lung infection, probably a relapse of the bronchitis I'd had earlier in BMT that they only half-ass treated. I was having a hard time breathing enough to live while I had that gas-mask on, but after getting a good breath of CS and then getting back outside every mucous membrane in my respiratory system beat a hasty retreat for my nose and then out on the ground. Once I got my breath back I felt 100 times better than I did going in.

And the sick thing is, CS gas isn't that bad. It's like the Casper the Friendly Ghost of chemical weapons. That's why they can use exposure to it as part of training.

I don't think chlorine, for example, would have helped your bronchitis as much.


Yeah, I know. CS is an irritant unless you absolutely can't get away from it, which I guess could lead to suffocation. I know it's nowhere near as dangerous as blister or nerve agents, which is why we can get away with routinely exposing our own people to it. I just saw an opportunity for what I hoped would be an interesting /csb. Personally, I'd rather chemical weapons never advanced beyond "nobody can breathe in this area for a couple hours" territory.
 
2012-12-24 01:24:40 AM
And here we are again with the usual arab dilemma: what will it be ? the murderous secular dictator or the islamic fundamentalist nutjobs ?
Maybe they can come up with something new for a change, like in Egypt: the fundamentalist islamic dictator.
 
2012-12-24 01:26:17 AM
Either there are a lot more than 7 people dead, or this wasn't a chemical attack.
 
2012-12-24 01:28:11 AM

webthing01: Don't bother the president.......... He's in Hawaii on vacation.

[img822.imageshack.us image 500x709]


webthing01: Don't bother the president.......... He's in Hawaii on vacation.

[img822.imageshack.us image 500x709]


Your water carrying for K-street lobbyists is duly noted and won't go without reward.

I'm sure you will offer an apology should this turn out to be nothing, right? Yeah, of course you will. Thanks
 
2012-12-24 01:28:21 AM
DULCE ET DECORUM EST

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
Gas! Gas! Quick, boys! - An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .

Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen
8 October 1917
 
2012-12-24 01:28:41 AM
has any one pointed out that these are the chemical weapons that were supposed to be in iraq, some 10 years ago?
 
2012-12-24 01:31:03 AM

What_Would_Jimi_Do: has any one pointed out that these are the chemical weapons that were supposed to be in iraq, some 10 years ago?


Any possible sarin from Iraq 10 years ago would be borderline useless due to decay.... which could explain why only 7 people died (if this story is true.)

Hmm.....
 
2012-12-24 01:31:28 AM

MIRV888: OK, I know I'm going to regret this because it's fark, but is aljazeera considered a reliable enough news service to make this credible? I'm asking out of genuine ignorance here. I have no dog in the fight over news agencies.


Yeah they are one of the few reliable and believe it or not neutral. I followed the Libya and Egypt uprisings and they reported the good, bad and ugly. Surprisingly they don't lean one way or the other. If the report is false, they will correct it but normally they get it right the first time.
 
2012-12-24 01:32:08 AM

crypticsatellite: NewportBarGuy: Bontesla: You've already lost the publicity war if news articles are making these claims against you.

Assad is a billionaire. All he has to do is say No Mas and he can go live in Dubai for the rest of his life. If he uses these weapons, I can tell you right now the Joint Chiefs will recommend that Obama kill him and his whole family.

Biological weapons release... it's not going to need any help from the media. NATO and US leadership will assault without much question.

I hope so, but I question Obama's resolve.


Really?
lisawallerrogers.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-24 01:32:13 AM

webthing01: Don't bother the president


That would be the President who ordered the hit on bin Laden. Fark you. Ignored.
 
2012-12-24 01:33:31 AM

Arumat: Personally, I'd rather chemical weapons never advanced beyond "nobody can breathe in this area for a couple hours" territory.


If you want to get all technical, chemical weapons automatically advance beyond that level. It's a simple matter of chemistry. Some chemicals out there just ain't safe. Which is sad.

The thing the world needs is honor. Much better to die than lose honor. It's the check and balance to absolute freedom.

Nerve gas is scary; blister agents, too. But you can just release any old dangerous chemical, really, and it would be a bad day regardless. Heck, even lobbing a mercury thermometer at someone is kind of a dick move.
 
2012-12-24 01:33:34 AM
i787.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-24 01:33:34 AM

RoyFokker'sGhost: Still no verification from CNN, but apparently, the government sent the rebels a holiday arrangement of Scuds on the 21st. Any millitary farkers know how long it takes to swap out the conventional warhead on a Scud for a chemical payload?


as a former AMMO troop, not very long at all.
 
2012-12-24 01:34:10 AM

verbaltoxin: I almost cupped my hand to my face, and the instructors about sh*t a brick and stopped me.


Why is that a bad thing to do? (No experience with whatever you're talking about. Just curious. Thanks!)
 
2012-12-24 01:35:57 AM

StopLurkListen: verbaltoxin: I almost cupped my hand to my face, and the instructors about sh*t a brick and stopped me.

Why is that a bad thing to do? (No experience with whatever you're talking about. Just curious. Thanks!)


Rubbing droplets of CS onto your face tends to concentrate it more. Not to mention it burns like an SOB.
 
2012-12-24 01:36:32 AM

Darth_Lukecash: Do not underestimate US air strikes to do the job


I don't. But if this is true, the US will be on the hook for not preventing it.
 
2012-12-24 01:36:54 AM

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: [www.webstop.tv image 480x360]

Do they know it's Christmastime at all?


"Tonight thank God it's them, instead of you"
 
2012-12-24 01:37:42 AM

shower_in_my_socks: Either there are a lot more than 7 people dead, or this wasn't a chemical attack.


i'm really hoping this wasn't a chemical attack.
 
2012-12-24 01:38:59 AM

croesius: How DARE a country use chemical weapons! No one is allowed to...oh, wait...
[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

Well, how DARE anyone ELSE use them!


Uhh, That's WP. WP is no more a chemical weapon than gunpowder. At least get your story straight.
 
2012-12-24 01:39:22 AM
Didn't Russia just deliver new mobile SAM launchers and the personel to help operate them?

Probably will be a true "no fly zone" if this goes down.

proxy wars! woo!

Also, a fantastic war tard post, just in time!

Link
 
2012-12-24 01:42:49 AM

doglover: NewportBarGuy: It would do a lot more damage than 7 dead.

Not if you're ready for it.


Or if they were incompetent in it's use.

Aum Shinrikyo killed 13 using it against a crowded subway system.
 
2012-12-24 01:43:17 AM
RoyFokker'sGhost: Still no verification from CNN, but apparently, the government sent the rebels a holiday arrangement of Scuds on the 21st. Any millitary farkers know how long it takes to swap out the conventional warhead on a Scud for a chemical payload?

as a former AMMO troop, not very long at all.

As a former WPNS troop, I agree. Any competent crew could repurpose them very quickly. Assuming the new payload was available.
 
2012-12-24 01:43:58 AM

Darth_Lukecash: webthing01: Don't bother the president.......... He's in Hawaii on vacation.

I did not know Syria was under Obamas jurisdiction.


Obama, AIPAC, what's the difference?
 
2012-12-24 01:44:32 AM

Weaver95: shower_in_my_socks: Either there are a lot more than 7 people dead, or this wasn't a chemical attack.

i'm really hoping this wasn't a chemical attack.


The articles make it seem like it was. But it wasn't an artillery shell or aerial bomb that dispersed it. This looks like someone throwing a glass bottle at some troops.

As for the number killed; the Sarin attacks on the Tokyo Subway only killed 13 and that's with unprepared people in a small enclosed area. The stuff's deadly in sufficient density. The problem is you have to use a lot in an aerial blast for max effect.

This whole thing screams rebel idiots. And they scare me far worse than Assad does.
 
2012-12-24 01:45:35 AM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Didn't Russia just deliver new mobile SAM launchers and the personel to help operate them?

Probably will be a true "no fly zone" if this goes down.

proxy wars! woo!

Also, a fantastic war tard post, just in time!

Link


Russia is not giving up a Med port.
 
2012-12-24 01:45:40 AM

Arnprior Joe: doglover: NewportBarGuy: It would do a lot more damage than 7 dead.

Not if you're ready for it.

Or if they were incompetent in it's use.

Aum Shinrikyo killed 13 using it against a crowded subway system.


Y'know we just started getting garbage cans back on the subway since then?
 
2012-12-24 01:47:03 AM
Sarin is incredibly stable as a stored chemical agent. However, it is frequently kept in a precursor state because of it's incredible lethality. The mixing of the agents and subsequent reaction is rapid enough to be performed as the warhead is being launched (or as a warm up state for when a weapon is being deployed outside of a missile).

The symptoms don't sound like sarin though. People don't typically report relaxed muscles with sarin patients. The muscle cramps, rigidity and jerkiness frequently look like seizures.
'
 
2012-12-24 01:50:10 AM

Insatiable Jesus: Russia is not giving up a Med port.


Firing on NATO aircraft is a sure way to lose it.
 
2012-12-24 01:52:13 AM

MadMattressMack: This whole thing screams rebel idiots. And they scare me far worse than Assad does.


The propaganda flip side to this is an article I read a couple days ago that in the Rebel-held areas of Aleppo, makeshift police squads were already trying to stop women from driving and forcing people to pray. Truth is a scarce commodity in Syria these days, so mostly you're stuck with what you choose to believe.
 
2012-12-24 01:52:42 AM
I don't see this on other news sites yet.
Anyone have another source?
 
2012-12-24 01:52:47 AM

NarrMaster: What_Would_Jimi_Do: has any one pointed out that these are the chemical weapons that were supposed to be in iraq, some 10 years ago?

Any possible sarin from Iraq 10 years ago would be borderline useless due to decay.... which could explain why only 7 people died (if this story is true.)

Hmm.....


Interesting since I recall some recruits at Parris Island ran into a patch of mustard gas a while back, it was said it was used over 50 years ago - whether it decays or not that fast is the question of how powerful it is.

In all likeliness this was in fact a chemical attack. due to the short life span and specifics which it needs to be deployed, I dont think the Syrians are capable of delivering mass amounts of it. Its been reported a half dozen to a dozen scud missiles have been
fired in the last few days, I wonder if this isn't the delivery method of this, if not airforce bombs. I know for one thing the Syrians lack any Airburst bombs, otherwise the death toll would be much higher then 7.

Then again, its been reported more then once that the Syrians have "delivered" chemical attacks, none have been proven (or can they be?)
 
2012-12-24 01:56:03 AM
The history of religion is the history of the State
Incestuous exploiters of a catalogue of hate.
The man of peace was over-run by armies of the "Lord"
Who signed their names to any war
and sang to praise the sword.

/all 3 Abrahamic use the term lord.

if all Abrahamic religions would join forces, they might be able to take over the world.

/i said too much
 
2012-12-24 01:59:18 AM

What_Would_Jimi_Do: The history of religion is the history of the State
Incestuous exploiters of a catalogue of hate.
The man of peace was over-run by armies of the "Lord"
Who signed their names to any war
and sang to praise the sword.

/all 3 Abrahamic use the term lord.

if all Abrahamic religions would join forces, they might be able to take over the world.

/i said too much


Stop posting while drunk.
 
2012-12-24 02:00:50 AM
Syria's had its own stockpiles of chemical weapons for years. We only cared that Iraq had them because they used them in the 80s and 90s and wanted a reason to invade
In 2001 the CIA reported that:

Syria sought CW-related precursors and expertise from foreign sources during the reporting period. Damascus already has a stockpile of the nerve agent sarin, and it would appear that Syria is trying to develop more toxic and persistent nerve agents. Syria remains dependent on foreign sources for key elements of its CW program, including precursor chemicals and key production equipment. It is highly probable that Syria also is developing an offensive BW capability.

In early 2002 Syria sought chemical weapons-related precursors from various countries. Damascus already held a stockpile of the nerve agent sarin, but apparently was trying to develop more toxic and persistent nerve agents. Syria remained dependent on foreign sources for key elements of its CW program, including precursor chemicals and key production equipment.

Syria is a major regional producer of phosphates that could conceivably be used for WMD. The country produces 2 million tons of phosphate per year and has an estimated reserve of around 2 billion tons. In October 2002 it was announced that a major "super" phosphate plant was to be constructed near Palmyra with a partnership between Russia and the state-owned General Company for Phosphate and Mines. A similar project is underway with the Indian firm, Dharmasi Morarji Chimicals Ltd.
 
2012-12-24 02:02:08 AM

What_Would_Jimi_Do: /all 3 Abrahamic use the term lord.


They also capitalize it.
 
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