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(Some Guy)   USAF crews partake in one of the most important missions of the year. It's a little dusty in the room   (airman.dodlive.mil) divider line 81
    More: Hero, USAF, Operation Christmas Drop, C-130, master sergeants, flight suit, sleds, missions, Micronesia  
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19722 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2012 at 9:06 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-24 12:08:08 AM
Frum!
 
2012-12-24 12:10:45 AM

duffblue: TOG85: USAF Retired: I was stationed on Guam in the 90's... one year I was selected to escort the box full of gifts that was sponsored by my squadron... It was supposed to be a honor to be selected ... Well I spent a miserable, cold 9 hour, round trip flight, just to put on a harness and push a box out the back of a C130...The following Christmas, I insisted that someone else get the "honor" .

From Subby; I'm sorry you felt that helping people was so out of your boundaries that it was a hardship on yourself. Personally, my transportation unit dropped off over 50 pairs of shoes en route to kuwait from Baghdad around Scania(look it up).

Holy shiat! Fifty whole pairs of shoes! Somebody call up Time and tell them to pull their Person of the Year Issue, because they got it wrong. Let's all give thanks to TOG85! Hell let's all give him a blowjob while we're at it, and don't forget the reach around for Fark's greatest hero of all time. Seriously, you are the greatest person on Earth and we should all strive to be like you! When my kids grow up I can only hope they'll be half as great as you! Hell, I'm not even going to have kids now, because there's no way they could ever measure up to such a selfless human being.


Woooh!
A super-nova like eruption of vitriol.
I know you've heard this before, but...you're an asshole.
/Asshole
 
2012-12-24 12:17:15 AM

swingerofbirches: Question: why does Micronesia have such an entitlement mentality?


Yeah. Buncha damn welfare queens. They'll never get jobs if we keep feeding them.
 
2012-12-24 12:18:11 AM

Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it.


Or, we could call it a training flight and just shut the fark up.
Because that is what it is. Plan the route from A to B to C to A, taking into account winds aloft, distance, fuel, payload, clearances, etc, etc, etc. Let the junior guy plan this non critical flight.

Why are Western air forces so good? Because they practice. A lot. This is just one more training mission. It just happens to have a secondary (and maybe tertiary) purpose.
 
2012-12-24 12:28:34 AM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it.

Or, we could call it a training flight and just shut the fark up.
Because that is what it is. Plan the route from A to B to C to A, taking into account winds aloft, distance, fuel, payload, clearances, etc, etc, etc. Let the junior guy plan this non critical flight.

Why are Western air forces so good? Because they practice. A lot. This is just one more training mission. It just happens to have a secondary (and maybe tertiary) purpose.


Ding!Ding!Ding!
 
2012-12-24 12:32:24 AM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it. Or, we could call it a training flight and just shut the fark up.
Because that is what it is. Plan the route from A to B to C to A, taking into account winds aloft, distance, fuel, payload, clearances, etc, etc, etc. Let the junior guy plan this non critical flight.
Why are Western air forces so good? Because they practice. A lot. This is just one more training mission. It just happens to have a secondary (and maybe tertiary) purpose.

"Training" is the new "safety" in how to justify any expenditure, no matter how inefficient?
 
2012-12-24 12:53:39 AM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it.

Or, we could call it a training flight and just shut the fark up.
Because that is what it is. Plan the route from A to B to C to A, taking into account winds aloft, distance, fuel, payload, clearances, etc, etc, etc. Let the junior guy plan this non critical flight.

Why are Western air forces so good? Because they practice. A lot. This is just one more training mission. It just happens to have a secondary (and maybe tertiary) purpose.


But think of the all the extra cost generated by this supply drop. Hades, when they open up the door that creates some turbalance that will slow the plane down, meaning that they have to apply more throttle to maintain their current airspeed. That $15,000 is now probably $15,001!!!! Oh the horror of out of control, wasteful military spending.
 
2012-12-24 01:02:50 AM

Bomb Head Mohammed: "Training" is the new "safety" in how to justify any expenditure, no matter how inefficient?


How is this inefficient?
"Hey new guy!. I need you to plan a flight from here at Yokota, to Island B, C and D and then back here. We need to do an air drop at each of those coordinates. Prep the flightplan, and brief it tomorrow."
That airdrop could be anything and anywhere. The skills learned in planning the flight is the key.

How do you get to be good? By actually doing it.
 
2012-12-24 01:11:13 AM

Bomb Head Mohammed: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it. Or, we could call it a training flight and just shut the fark up.
Because that is what it is. Plan the route from A to B to C to A, taking into account winds aloft, distance, fuel, payload, clearances, etc, etc, etc. Let the junior guy plan this non critical flight.
Why are Western air forces so good? Because they practice. A lot. This is just one more training mission. It just happens to have a secondary (and maybe tertiary) purpose.

"Training" is the new "safety" in how to justify any expenditure, no matter how inefficient?


The U.S. Air Force regularly re-supplies remote Army firebases in Afghanistan this way, via airdrops.

A training flight would require identical crews, flying identical aircraft, dropping identical containers, with identical cargo parachutes.

They'd also have to load them up with ballast to simulate real-world conditions.

The items dropped in Operation Christmas Drop are either donated, won't be used by the U.S. before they expire, or surplus and outdated equipment that isn't worth being shipped back to the States just to wind up at a DRMO auction.

So, please, explain how this is significantly more expensive than a training flight dropping ballast.
 
2012-12-24 01:15:16 AM
I'm OK with spending tax dollars this way.

I'm not OK with this:

Bush and Obama spending trillions on bailouts, with no evidence of where the money went? Ben Bernanke saying he has no idea where the bailout money went? Not cool, fearless leaders.
 
2012-12-24 01:33:53 AM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: I'm a long time flight instructor, so don't blow sunshine up my backside. Do you really need to be training people to fly from "Yokota to B to C to D?" where B C and D are in the middle of nowhere? Bollocks. These are well trained aviators who know how to fly cross country and cross ocean and flying along the length of an airstrip at casual altitude while waving out the back isn't exactly rocket science. Yap is about 1500 nm away. That's a lot of autopilot time.

"Air Drop Supplies into Afghanistan?" Tell me exactly why this can't be done on a range in Japan with recoverable supplies and parachutes in a much more cost effective way?

The "items dropped are donated." Great. so each box contains let's call it $1000 of stuff (and that's being VERY VERY generous). if they drop 10 boxes, that's $150,000 in taxpayer costs to drop $10,000 of stuff. As opposed to sending the stuff by sea, which would have cost a negligible amount, or, even better, donate the stuff locally in Japan.

I am not against simple charity. I also understand the need for aircrews to have training. But what you are basically doing is giving them a blank check to do a very cost ineffective sort of redistribution to people who don't particularly need it on the taxpayer dime. If the training were truly worthwhile, they'd be doing it like this outside of xmas to. They don't. They just bask in the glory of giving away things they didn't pay for with other people's money and then have apologists like you try to justify this with "well, it might be useful for training" nonsense.

Being serious about fixing the US economy starts with getting serious about waste. This is wasteful. It's a small drop in a large ocean of waste, and it's a bit scroogy of me to pick on this, but it's still waste that cost the yearly income tax payments of let's call it ten families while wearing our engines and other equipment in useless long distance cruise flight.
 
2012-12-24 01:41:27 AM
I see that the the people of Micronesia are selling all the stuff on ebay:

Operation Christmas Drop Ebay

Making a good living selling as collectibles...
 
2012-12-24 01:42:51 AM
"The chief said it wasn't necessarily the supplies themselves that were most important. The islanders know that the United States is a big country and is involved in many operations at home and abroad. It's important to them that, with everything else going on, Americans still find time to do this for them and has done so for more than half a century."

I think this sums it up pretty well. Wanna make a mark and improve how the world thinks of you? it's the small things that matter.
 
2012-12-24 01:47:42 AM

TOG85: duffblue: Stuff

I'm drunk, but that still doesn't excuse me from saying that if I were to meet you I'd beat the living shiat out of you for being a bad person ... die in a fire, farktard, god save your soul if you cross my path. What is your excuse for being an asshole?


You sound like a stable person. PTSD from killing all of those children over in the Middle East?
 
2012-12-24 01:57:01 AM
Obviously no one in the Micronesian area have seen Outbreak.
 
2012-12-24 02:39:57 AM

TOG85: Im more curious, did u drop them at random on the way? Like one pair every 100km?

No, we waited til we came upon a village near a base along our route where small children gathered and dropped the shoes there. We normally dropped food and water from our trucks, but decided that shoes would help as well that day.


You are a good man.

Thanks for being what you are.

Me? I helped out a few friends this season. The economy is not well and they appreciated it. It was pretty much on the "don't say I did this" to the SO. Just say it was... whatever. Also gave to a few food banks and some others. Just dropped the cans in and walked away.

I feel kinda good this year as I was able to contribute to others.
 
2012-12-24 02:44:26 AM

Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it.


I'm ok with my tax dollars doing this.
 
2012-12-24 03:56:22 AM

saturn badger: Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it.

I'm ok with my tax dollars doing this.


I'm not. How about we stick to spending our taxes on absolutely necessary government functions that we can all agree on, like roads and real defense, and you can spend your own money on donations to a private charity that has $150,000 overhead to deliver $1000 worth of benefits? There are plenty "charities" like that available.
 
2012-12-24 04:23:40 AM

It's Me Bender: saturn badger: Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it.

I'm ok with my tax dollars doing this.

I'm not. How about we stick to spending our taxes on absolutely necessary government functions that we can all agree on, like roads and real defense, and you can spend your own money on donations to a private charity that has $150,000 overhead to deliver $1000 worth of benefits? There are plenty "charities" like that available.


So no more training flights by any air crews who are stationed overseas?
 
2012-12-24 05:42:12 AM

Mock26: Frum!


Yes, John Frum has been appeased... let there be bounty blong sky!

/not sure if cargo cults really work that way
//lulz cargo cults!
 
2012-12-24 05:59:27 AM
Cruising at low altitudes over exotic locations in the pacific, delivering supplies to needy children who see you as the thundering sky gods of Christmas.

...Yea, sounds like a miserable duty.
 
2012-12-24 06:28:39 AM
saturn badger: Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it.

I'm ok with my tax dollars doing this.

right. and that's the problem. you're ok with this inefficient pet project, another person is ok with that inefficient pet project, and there you go. this is how pork / special interests get started. basically, you are "ok with this" because it's photogenic and you view it as basically benign and it's easier to say yes than to say no, since morans like mock26 will respond with "why do you hate america?", "why do you hate xmas", and "so no more training flights, then?"

- if this was a useful training flight, then it would be done not just on xmas. as it were, it's a long flight over water that does nothing that burn gas and money.
- while i'm sure the people appreciate the gifts, they are not starving and not in desperate need of them while there ARE people elsewhere to whom the same supplies could be gotten for far less cost,
- if the goal is to improve or maintain relations with islands, this would be rather ironic given that there is no crisis with micronesia or even a hint of one, though there was a 100,000 strong protest against US forces in Japan, you know, the place the flights originate from, recently.
- were the parachutes surplus too? had they been used on a range, they could be reused.

this is a feel-good story. i get it. and the us government wastes far more elsewhere - i get that too. but that doesn't make this right. the worst part of it is is that the airmen are somehow seen as "generous" in this. really? what personal sacrifice did they make? they got to shoot the shti AND COLLECT FLIGHT PAY on a longer autopilot-on cruise flight while flying out to paradise islands for a "training mission"? bollocks. it's easy to be generous with other people's money, and that's exactly what's going on here.
 
2012-12-24 07:00:55 AM

Bomb Head Mohammed: saturn badger: Bomb Head Mohammed: the squadron collects, let's call it a few hundred bucks of stuff to deliver to the natives and the taxpayer is stuck for, let's call it $15,000 per hour to deliver it.

I'm ok with my tax dollars doing this.

right. and that's the problem. you're ok with this inefficient pet project, another person is ok with that inefficient pet project, and there you go. this is how pork / special interests get started. basically, you are "ok with this" because it's photogenic and you view it as basically benign and it's easier to say yes than to say no, since morans like mock26 will respond with "why do you hate america?", "why do you hate xmas", and "so no more training flights, then?"

- if this was a useful training flight, then it would be done not just on xmas. as it were, it's a long flight over water that does nothing that burn gas and money.
- while i'm sure the people appreciate the gifts, they are not starving and not in desperate need of them while there ARE people elsewhere to whom the same supplies could be gotten for far less cost,
- if the goal is to improve or maintain relations with islands, this would be rather ironic given that there is no crisis with micronesia or even a hint of one, though there was a 100,000 strong protest against US forces in Japan, you know, the place the flights originate from, recently.
- were the parachutes surplus too? had they been used on a range, they could be reused.

this is a feel-good story. i get it. and the us government wastes far more elsewhere - i get that too. but that doesn't make this right. the worst part of it is is that the airmen are somehow seen as "generous" in this. really? what personal sacrifice did they make? they got to shoot the shti AND COLLECT FLIGHT PAY on a longer autopilot-on cruise flight while flying out to paradise islands for a "training mission"? bollocks. it's easy to be generous with other people's money, and that's exactly what's going on here.


Too much over analyzing.

Feel good = good PR = public support.
A wasted trip to play Santa clause makes it easier to recruit volunteer soldiers, easier to get money for stealth fighters, and easier to win the trust of people in that region should future conflicts arise.

The winter solstice is the peak of seasonal despair for northern cultures, and the message of Christmas is a message of outreach and hope.
If, at the peak of your villages struggle, some generous stranger thunders past and lands a box of supplies more valuable than gold in your yard, its a thing you don't forget anytime soon.

From a that perspective, those cargo cults are worth far more than what is invested in them. Doubly good if the pilots get needed training.
Its an investment that's easily justified.

/you don't train for long range missions with short range flights.
/if we had done more outreach in the Arab world, it might have changed Alot of recent history to our favor.
 
2012-12-24 08:32:57 AM
That made me feel really good. Good find subby. And good for the United State Air Force.
 
2012-12-24 08:57:46 AM

Bomb Head Mohammed: words


.......Tonight, you will be visited by three ghosts..
 
2012-12-24 01:57:02 PM
I'm just going to assume that it's American fast food that they are dropping, considering those natives have American style guts
 
2012-12-24 02:19:13 PM

kriegfusion: duffblue: TOG85: USAF Retired: I was stationed on Guam in the 90's... one year I was selected to escort the box full of gifts that was sponsored by my squadron... It was supposed to be a honor to be selected ... Well I spent a miserable, cold 9 hour, round trip flight, just to put on a harness and push a box out the back of a C130...The following Christmas, I insisted that someone else get the "honor" .

From Subby; I'm sorry you felt that helping people was so out of your boundaries that it was a hardship on yourself. Personally, my transportation unit dropped off over 50 pairs of shoes en route to kuwait from Baghdad around Scania(look it up).

Holy shiat! Fifty whole pairs of shoes! Somebody call up Time and tell them to pull their Person of the Year Issue, because they got it wrong. Let's all give thanks to TOG85! Hell let's all give him a blowjob while we're at it, and don't forget the reach around for Fark's greatest hero of all time. Seriously, you are the greatest person on Earth and we should all strive to be like you! When my kids grow up I can only hope they'll be half as great as you! Hell, I'm not even going to have kids now, because there's no way they could ever measure up to such a selfless human being.

Im more curious, did u drop them at random on the way? Like one pair every 100km?


Also, I think they have shoes in Södertälje. But just getting that far into Swedish airspace is impressive, but seems like a detour.
 
2012-12-24 02:39:05 PM

LowbrowDeluxe: /Just joshin' ya, USAF.
//mostly


Why?.....any member of the USAF will agree with you.
 
2012-12-24 04:45:01 PM

Virtue: LowbrowDeluxe: /Just joshin' ya, USAF.
//mostly

Why?.....any member of the USAF will agree with you.


Absolutely!
 
2012-12-24 04:56:03 PM

Bomb Head Mohammed: YouPeopleAreCrazy: I'm a long time flight instructor, so don't blow sunshine up my backside. Do you really need to be training people to fly from "Yokota to B to C to D?" where B C and D are in the middle of nowhere? Bollocks. These are well trained aviators who know how to fly cross country and cross ocean and flying along the length of an airstrip at casual altitude while waving out the back isn't exactly rocket science. Yap is about 1500 nm away. That's a lot of autopilot time.

"Air Drop Supplies into Afghanistan?" Tell me exactly why this can't be done on a range in Japan with recoverable supplies and parachutes in a much more cost effective way?

The "items dropped are donated." Great. so each box contains let's call it $1000 of stuff (and that's being VERY VERY generous). if they drop 10 boxes, that's $150,000 in taxpayer costs to drop $10,000 of stuff. As opposed to sending the stuff by sea, which would have cost a negligible amount, or, even better, donate the stuff locally in Japan.

I am not against simple charity. I also understand the need for aircrews to have training. But what you are basically doing is giving them a blank check to do a very cost ineffective sort of redistribution to people who don't particularly need it on the taxpayer dime. If the training were truly worthwhile, they'd be doing it like this outside of xmas to. They don't. They just bask in the glory of giving away things they didn't pay for with other people's money and then have apologists like you try to justify this with "well, it might be useful for training" nonsense.

Being serious about fixing the US economy starts with getting serious about waste. This is wasteful. It's a small drop in a large ocean of waste, and it's a bit scroogy of me to pick on this, but it's still waste that cost the yearly income tax payments of let's call it ten families while wearing our engines and other equipment in useless long distance cruise flight.


Pilots need flight hours to maintain their proficiency and skills. How do you think they become "highly skilled aviators" in the first place without getting the flight hours. Simulators just don't cut it for everything. Yes, they could plot A, B, and C and drop on a range, but they are still going out for so many hours and doing so many drops. It makes a little more sense to fly an actual "mission" where wind and weather conditions change from a static range where conditions are relatively known. So there is a tangible benefit of doing these kind of missions and it provides a bit more realistic training than simply going out over the ocean for 8 hours and coming in on a well marked range to drop stuff.

Yes, the military could donate locally and I am sure they do via other programs. However these small islands don't have the same interest for charities due to their size, location, and difficulty to access. There is a historical connection between the military and these islanders from WW2 and cold war testing that makes this charity program of some significance to these groups.There can be a larger impact by giving small amounts of aid to underserved groups with little access to the outside world than the same aid given to poor groups with a wealth of programs and charities available.

There is little if any government waste involved in this activity other than possible hours spent collecting the donations. The expense of the flight and personel costs would be spent anyway with training flights. The material dropped was donated. Where is the waste in this activity that makes it deserved to be cut?

If you want to advocate cuts in government, start with the true waste. Government procurement, subsidies to corporations (natural resources production, agriculture, energy, manufacturing, etc.), wasteful security spending for puffed up government officials, redundant and unnecessary positions bloating payroll and benefits, and numerous other targets.
 
2012-12-24 11:38:57 PM
At least we're not dropping nukes on their islands like we were in the '50s. For crying out loud, some of you people are too uptight. Pilots are getting flight hours (good), crews are getting precision airdrop training (good) and people living on tiny islands in the middle of nowhere are getting useful donated goods (good). Flight hours is flight hours no matter where you're going Mr. Grinch so STFU already. You want the Air Force to save money? Scrap the F-22 and demand a refund from all of the contractors that worked on that worthless POS.
 
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