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(Visual.ly)   What people really think about gun control   (blog.visual.ly) divider line 546
    More: Interesting, gun controls, gun ownership  
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9366 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Dec 2012 at 6:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-23 02:02:24 PM
If only legitimate methodology were involved in the survey . . .
 
2012-12-23 02:28:22 PM

wambu: If only legitimate methodology were involved in the survey . . .


What part of their methodology do you take issue with?

/not subby
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-23 02:59:20 PM
I don't think this is about what people think any more than the tax issue is. It's about which lobbyists have more money. The NRA is backed by the gun industry. Whatever anti-gun lobby is left is backed by ordinary people concerned for public safety.

The majority may want gun control, but there isn't any profit in it. There is no "anti-gun" industry to provide financial backing.
 
2012-12-23 03:11:27 PM
There's no indication that the survey results are statistically valid. They only describe who they surveyed, not whether the sample was appropriate. It amounts to little more than  "This is what some people said", so you can't rely on the survey for anything except some pretty graphics (which are nicely done).
 
2012-12-23 03:39:17 PM

EatenTheSun: wambu: If only legitimate methodology were involved in the survey . . .

What part of their methodology do you take issue with?

/not subby


It was a "Survey Monkey" survey... I believe they get people who are going to take other surveys they requested to take to also take "another" survey.  So, it really is not statistically accurate group of individuals, most likely.

Because, if Obama/Democrats really thought that the extent of opposition to any further gun control measures was only 25-30%, they'd be all over it.
 
2012-12-23 03:40:05 PM
Superb infographics, at least.
 
2012-12-23 04:01:01 PM
Can someone tell those of us on mobile what the survey said?
 
2012-12-23 04:09:39 PM

NickelP: Can someone tell those of us on mobile what the survey said?


Too long to easily summarize. Here:
 
2012-12-23 04:09:59 PM

dletter: So, it really is not statistically accurate group of individuals, most likely.


Lines up moderately well to GSS-2010. Age is a little heavy on 45-60 and a hair light on 30-44; leans significantly male; but leans a lot more heavily educated than the US generally -- which is probably the most worrisome.

They also don't report sample N.
Still, pretty graphics.
 
2012-12-23 04:14:20 PM
Ugh. Try that again:

s14.postimage.org
 
2012-12-23 04:15:05 PM
35% college educated.
Well, that's your problem right there.
As Fark proves every day, only uncivilized, dumb people are gun nuts.
 
2012-12-23 04:19:53 PM
I'm sure I read all three of those infographic comments in Fark threads since the CT shooting.

A few have suggested the methodology is shaky, and I'm sure you are right, but I bet these numbers aren't too far off.  How busy is Nate Silver these days?
 
2012-12-23 04:26:25 PM

NickelP: Can someone tell those of us on mobile what the survey said?


Own a gun? 65.5% No, 34.5% Yes.
Owners, own how many? 23.3% 1, 28.6% 2, 23.6% 3-5, 7.9% 6-10, 10.7% 10+.
Reasons for owning: 62.9% protection, 51.4% target shooting, 44.3% hunting, 5% occupational (EG: cops), 12.9% other.

Should gun control laws be stricter or looser?
43.5% much stricter
15.9% moderately stricter
11.7% slightly stricter
20.8% neither
3.7% slightly looser
1.7% moderately looser
2.7% much looser

Which best describes your opinion on the ability of residents to purchase and own firearms in the US?
6.6% There should be no restrictions on who should be able to purchase and own firearms
69.7% Only people who have gone through background checks and the appropriate medical examinations should be allowed to purchase and own firearms
11% Only police officers and other authorized personnel should be allowed to purchase and own firearms
2.9% No-one should be allowed to purchase and own firearms
9.8% Other

Should safety training be required before a person is granted a license to own a firearm?
92.4% Yes
7.6% No

When you think of firearms which do you more associate them with?
Violence 28.4%
Protection 35%
Both 36.7%

Have the recent Sandy Hook events impacted your views on gun control in the US?
26.4% changed views more in favor of stricter gun control laws
70.4% did not change my views
3.2% changed views more in favor of looser gun control laws

Demographics:
43%F, 57%M
21% 18-29, 21% 30-44, 34% 45-60, 25% over 60
0% LT High School, 10% HS grad, 29% some college, 35% College degree, 26% graduate degree.

Also a map of the US with geographic distribution, which doesn't look particularly odd.
 
2012-12-23 04:38:54 PM

EatenTheSun: wambu: If only legitimate methodology were involved in the survey . . .

What part of their methodology do you take issue with?

/not subby


It's an open Internet survey.  It means nothing.  There's no way to prove it is a legitimately random audience.
 
2012-12-23 04:41:47 PM

hinten: 35% college educated.
Well, that's your problem right there.
As Fark proves every day, only uncivilized, dumb people are gun nuts.


More associated to low education than low intelligence; I suspect low income limits gun ownership among the sub-HS educated. Since education is a factor, the educational skew of the sample seems likely problematic.
 
2012-12-23 04:49:19 PM

GAT_00: It's an open Internet survey. It means nothing. There's no way to prove it is a legitimately random audience.


It's not quite an open internet survey; however, the "SurveyMonkey Audience" sampling methodology isn't as rigorous as (say) an internet survey done by Knowledge Networks, a phone survey such as Gallup, or an in-person interview by NORC.

Saying it means nothing overstates the weakness -- but the survey is skewed, so it's at most very vaguely suggestive about attitudes. And, if it were a legitmately random audience, it would have lined up better on the demographic data they gave. Contrariwise, the line up to the GSS for yes/no gun ownership levels is better than I'd expect.
 
2012-12-23 04:57:34 PM
PPP, the most accurate pollster of the 2012 elections.

1000 registered voters, MoE ±3.1%, December 18, 2012 - December 19, 2012.

Would you support or oppose requiring a criminal background check before any purchase of a gun?

Support 92
Oppose 6

Would you support or oppose requiring a mental health examination before any purchase of a gun?

Support 63
Oppose 28

Would you support or oppose banning assault weapons?

Support 63
Oppose 32

Would you support or oppose banning the sale of guns and bullets over the Internet

Support 69
Oppose 26

Would you support or oppose closing the socalled "gun-show loophole," which allows unlicensed dealers to sell guns at gun shows without performing criminal background checks?

Support 76
Oppose 19

Would you support or oppose prohibiting felons convicted of violent crimes from purchasing guns?

Support 94
Oppose 5

Would you support or oppose banning high-capacity magazines on guns - magazines capable of holding more than ten bullets?

Support 64
Oppose 31

The fact is that even conservatives support strongly the common-sense restrictions of requiring background checks and mental health examinations before buying guns, support the banning of assault rifles, support banning the sale of guns and bullets over the internet, support closing the gun-show loophole, support prohibiting violent felons from owning guns, and support banning high-capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. Link
 
2012-12-23 05:09:28 PM
From Alistair Cooke's broadcast after Columbine:

On the façade of the National Rifle Association's headquarters building in Washington there is or was chiselled in the stone a phrase enclosed in quotation marks. It says: "..." - there are three dots which signify something missing, we're not bothering to print or find unnecessary - so: "... the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

That is the mantra, the watchword, the rationale for the NRA's conviction that the Constitution gives them a sacred right to keep guns. But it doesn't and the simple reason is in those three dots.

The first part of the sentence in the Constitution they didn't print and chisel. This is what the Second Amendment to the Constitution says in full: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of the free state, then the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The one condition of having that right was to be able to spring to attention and help to form a militia whenever it was called into being.

A militia? One prejudice the New England settlers brought to America was a fear of standing armies. Kings could seize control of an army overnight and enslave the people. So this nation, when it was created, absolutely rejected the idea of a standing army.

The militia was the alternative thought indispensable to a republic. And militiamen would form, be summoned by the president, in an emergency - an Indian uprising, a whisky rebellion (there was such a thing) - and then disbanded once the trouble was over.

/yes, I know the Supreme Court has ruled that militia membership, regulated or otherwise, had no bearing on firearms ownership
//it was a 5:4 decision
///a few new justices may be appointed to the USSC in Obama's term
 
2012-12-23 05:12:14 PM

abb3w: GAT_00: It's an open Internet survey. It means nothing. There's no way to prove it is a legitimately random audience.

It's not quite an open internet survey; however, the "SurveyMonkey Audience" sampling methodology isn't as rigorous as (say) an internet survey done by Knowledge Networks, a phone survey such as Gallup, or an in-person interview by NORC.

Saying it means nothing overstates the weakness -- but the survey is skewed, so it's at most very vaguely suggestive about attitudes. And, if it were a legitmately random audience, it would have lined up better on the demographic data they gave. Contrariwise, the line up to the GSS for yes/no gun ownership levels is better than I'd expect.


I looked over their site.  You can pick an audience for your survey.  All you have to do is find demographics that are known to be biased towards NRA membership and choose to use those for the survey.  There is no information of the number of people surveyed, just the map with dots of unknown value.

Their age structure is off (PDF warning).  30-44 are undersurveyed by 6%, 45-60 oversurveyed by 7%.  Their education numbers are completely farking off.  13% didn't graduate high school, 31% only graduated high school, 17% some college, 28% have an Associates or Bachelors, and 10% have an advanced degree.

Their site offers to target on
GenderAgeIncomeLocationEducationEthnicity / RaceVoter registrationIndustry of employmentJob functionMarital statusParental statusEmployment statusHome ownershipVehicle ownershipSmartphone ownershipElectronic device ownershipExercise habits Any survey designed to target people is worthless for policy like this.  I trust this to be nothing more than a survey that found what it was designed to find.
 
2012-12-23 05:13:34 PM
Hmm, the bullet points didn't survive.

They target on:

Gender
Age
Income
Location
Education
Ethnicity / Race
Voter registration
Industry of employment
Job function
Marital status
Parental status
Employment status
Home ownership
Vehicle ownership
Smartphone ownership
Electronic device ownership
Exercise habits
 
2012-12-23 05:18:51 PM
 I've never been more in danger from disturbed people who legally bought guns for self-defense than from anything else

That includes a 'gun collector' whose collection fell through the ceiling of my apartment to an ex girlfriend who started pulling out her .45 if somebody farted too loud.
 
2012-12-23 05:22:24 PM

GAT_00: I looked over their site. You can pick an audience for your survey. All you have to do is find demographics that are known to be biased towards NRA membership and choose to use those for the survey.


There really is no indication this was done. Would you support their methodology if you had actually read the survey and realized that it is actually contradictory to a lot of NRA ideology?
 
2012-12-23 05:25:15 PM
Belcher's murder-suicide leads to Costas' remarks which motivate the gun rights advocates to remind everyone of the importance of 2A. A week later the shooter in Clackamas fires up the still warm media/internet debate. Then, with the weekend approaching and families across the country anticipating the Christmas break, the son of a law-abiding gun owner who instructed him in the care and operation of firearms walked into an elementary school and showed off his skills.

It's like we were all attending a relatively calm debate on the issue and Adam Lanza walked in the back door and quite loudly delivered the closing argument.
 
2012-12-23 05:28:46 PM

EatenTheSun: GAT_00: I looked over their site. You can pick an audience for your survey. All you have to do is find demographics that are known to be biased towards NRA membership and choose to use those for the survey.

There really is no indication this was done. Would you support their methodology if you had actually read the survey and realized that it is actually contradictory to a lot of NRA ideology?


It cannot be an unbiased survey.  It was done on a site that is designed to choose the result you want.  I don't care what it found, it isn't valid.  The PPP poll is.
 
2012-12-23 05:28:49 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Belcher's murder-suicide leads to Costas' remarks which motivate the gun rights advocates to remind everyone of the importance of 2A. A week later the shooter in Clackamas fires up the still warm media/internet debate. Then, with the weekend approaching and families across the country anticipating the Christmas break, the son of a law-abiding gun owner who instructed him in the care and operation of firearms walked into an elementary school and showed off his skills.

It's like we were all attending a relatively calm debate on the issue and Adam Lanza walked in the back door and quite loudly delivered the closing argument.


Quite honestly, I have a fear that some other farknut will now go after the President. And while I really dislike the President, that would really piss me off.
 
2012-12-23 05:41:14 PM

abb3w: NickelP: Can someone tell those of us on mobile what the survey said?

Own a gun? 65.5% No, 34.5% Yes.
Owners, own how many? 23.3% 1, 28.6% 2, 23.6% 3-5, 7.9% 6-10, 10.7% 10+.
Reasons for owning: 62.9% protection, 51.4% target shooting, 44.3% hunting, 5% occupational (EG: cops), 12.9% other.

Should gun control laws be stricter or looser?
43.5% much stricter
15.9% moderately stricter
11.7% slightly stricter
20.8% neither
3.7% slightly looser
1.7% moderately looser
2.7% much looser

Which best describes your opinion on the ability of residents to purchase and own firearms in the US?
6.6% There should be no restrictions on who should be able to purchase and own firearms
69.7% Only people who have gone through background checks and the appropriate medical examinations should be allowed to purchase and own firearms
11% Only police officers and other authorized personnel should be allowed to purchase and own firearms
2.9% No-one should be allowed to purchase and own firearms
9.8% Other

Should safety training be required before a person is granted a license to own a firearm?
92.4% Yes
7.6% No

When you think of firearms which do you more associate them with?
Violence 28.4%
Protection 35%
Both 36.7%

Have the recent Sandy Hook events impacted your views on gun control in the US?
26.4% changed views more in favor of stricter gun control laws
70.4% did not change my views
3.2% changed views more in favor of looser gun control laws

Demographics:
43%F, 57%M
21% 18-29, 21% 30-44, 34% 45-60, 25% over 60
0% LT High School, 10% HS grad, 29% some college, 35% College degree, 26% graduate degree.

Also a map of the US with geographic distribution, which doesn't look particularly odd.


If you keep enabling him, he'll remain homeless mobile forever.
 
2012-12-23 05:44:53 PM

EatenTheSun: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Belcher's murder-suicide leads to Costas' remarks which motivate the gun rights advocates to remind everyone of the importance of 2A. A week later the shooter in Clackamas fires up the still warm media/internet debate. Then, with the weekend approaching and families across the country anticipating the Christmas break, the son of a law-abiding gun owner who instructed him in the care and operation of firearms walked into an elementary school and showed off his skills.

It's like we were all attending a relatively calm debate on the issue and Adam Lanza walked in the back door and quite loudly delivered the closing argument.

Quite honestly, I have a fear that some other farknut will now go after the President. And while I really dislike the President, that would really piss me off.


Smart and appropriate move to hand off to Biden.
 
2012-12-23 05:48:52 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: EatenTheSun: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Belcher's murder-suicide leads to Costas' remarks which motivate the gun rights advocates to remind everyone of the importance of 2A. A week later the shooter in Clackamas fires up the still warm media/internet debate. Then, with the weekend approaching and families across the country anticipating the Christmas break, the son of a law-abiding gun owner who instructed him in the care and operation of firearms walked into an elementary school and showed off his skills.

It's like we were all attending a relatively calm debate on the issue and Adam Lanza walked in the back door and quite loudly delivered the closing argument.

Quite honestly, I have a fear that some other farknut will now go after the President. And while I really dislike the President, that would really piss me off.

Smart and appropriate move to hand off to Biden.


I wonder if Biden realizes he's bait now. I don't think Obama ever liked him much.
 
2012-12-23 05:54:25 PM
It's because people are emotional so close to the tragedy. Just wait a month or two and people will gladly give teachers CCW permits. Or something.
 
2012-12-23 06:26:13 PM

EatenTheSun: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: EatenTheSun: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Belcher's murder-suicide leads to Costas' remarks which motivate the gun rights advocates to remind everyone of the importance of 2A. A week later the shooter in Clackamas fires up the still warm media/internet debate. Then, with the weekend approaching and families across the country anticipating the Christmas break, the son of a law-abiding gun owner who instructed him in the care and operation of firearms walked into an elementary school and showed off his skills.

It's like we were all attending a relatively calm debate on the issue and Adam Lanza walked in the back door and quite loudly delivered the closing argument.

Quite honestly, I have a fear that some other farknut will now go after the President. And while I really dislike the President, that would really piss me off.

Smart and appropriate move to hand off to Biden.

I wonder if Biden realizes he's bait now. I don't think Obama ever liked him much.


I assume you're being facetious but I was referring to Biden's longstanding advocacy for gun control and the fact that his being an older white guy would likely assuage many of the lunatics you're talking about, not on the issue but on particular action.
 
2012-12-23 06:34:46 PM
But what do people really think about using commas for decimal points?
 
2012-12-23 06:38:45 PM

fusillade762: But what do people really think about using commas for decimal points?


It's a pain in the ass if you're working with the data from a Census of an Asian country, let me tell you.  Especially Vietnam.
 
2012-12-23 06:39:08 PM

fusillade762: But what do people really think about using commas for decimal points?



Good to know I wasn't the only one bothered by this.
 
2012-12-23 06:43:41 PM
Ok Fark. I enjoy discussing the issue, but now you're just whoring for ad revenue. I enjoy firearms websites, lord knows I post on enough of them. Why not just give us a firearms tab?
 
2012-12-23 06:49:46 PM

Fail in Human Form: Ok Fark. I enjoy discussing the issue, but now you're just whoring for ad revenue. I enjoy firearms websites, lord knows I post on enough of them. Why not just give us a firearms tab?


Because it'll be just another blood bath of derp.
 
2012-12-23 06:51:26 PM

coeyagi: Fail in Human Form: Ok Fark. I enjoy discussing the issue, but now you're just whoring for ad revenue. I enjoy firearms websites, lord knows I post on enough of them. Why not just give us a firearms tab?

Because it'll be just another blood bath of derp.


Well, we seem to have a lot of interest and we could have threads about the actual FIREARMS and not just the political issues. Seems like a money maker to me.
 
2012-12-23 06:52:31 PM

Fail in Human Form: Ok Fark. I enjoy discussing the issue, but now you're just whoring for ad revenue. I enjoy firearms websites, lord knows I post on enough of them. Why not just give us a firearms tab?


We already have a "flamewar" tab.
 
2012-12-23 06:54:35 PM

Fail in Human Form: Well, we seem to have a lot of interest and we could have threads about the actual FIREARMS and not just the political issues. Seems like a money maker to me.


It would at least be an interesting commentary on the US psyche if Drew had to drop boobies from Fark to appease advertisers and instead went to firearms for revenue generation.
 
2012-12-23 07:00:38 PM
Everyone is taking this WAY too seriously.

images.wikia.com

Why don't you... eh... loosen your bullets?
 
2012-12-23 07:01:40 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: PPP, the most accurate pollster of the 2012 elections.

1000 registered voters, MoE ±3.1%, December 18, 2012 - December 19, 2012.

Would you support or oppose requiring a criminal background check before any purchase of a gun?

Support 92
Oppose 6

Would you support or oppose requiring a mental health examination before any purchase of a gun?

Support 63
Oppose 28

Would you support or oppose banning assault weapons?

Support 63
Oppose 32

Would you support or oppose banning the sale of guns and bullets over the Internet

Support 69
Oppose 26

Would you support or oppose closing the socalled "gun-show loophole," which allows unlicensed dealers to sell guns at gun shows without performing criminal background checks?

Support 76
Oppose 19

Would you support or oppose prohibiting felons convicted of violent crimes from purchasing guns?

Support 94
Oppose 5

Would you support or oppose banning high-capacity magazines on guns - magazines capable of holding more than ten bullets?

Support 64
Oppose 31

The fact is that even conservatives support strongly the common-sense restrictions of requiring background checks and mental health examinations before buying guns, support the banning of assault rifles, support banning the sale of guns and bullets over the internet, support closing the gun-show loophole, support prohibiting violent felons from owning guns, and support banning high-capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. Link


There is no such thing as a gunshow loophole, for one. It's fictitious and extremely disingenuous to keep bringing up the idea that one exists. Now if you want to talk about private sales then fine.

Secondly, you cannot buy guns "off the internet" any more than you can get a gun from an FFL without a background check. All gun sales have to be run through an FFL, whether it's through the internet or not. Now if you want to talk about ammunition sales, fine.

Basically 3/4 of the things you brought up people supporting are already the case, and the rest is completely misleading.
 
2012-12-23 07:06:31 PM
I wonder how many of you would be ok with putting the 4th up for a popular vote? How about the 1st?

Lets just call a constitutional convention and be done with it.

What is it about guns that gets your little panties in a bunch?
 
2012-12-23 07:06:46 PM
In my experience, 90% of the people who want to own a gun -shouldn't.
 
2012-12-23 07:08:26 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Anyone who doesn't agree with me shouldn't have constitutional rights.


FTFY
 
2012-12-23 07:10:35 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: In my experience, 90% of the people who want to own a gun -shouldn't.


In my experience, 90% of the people who are allowed to vote, shouldn't. That doesn't mean they should not have the right to do so.
In my experience, 90% of the people who are subject to illegal search and seizure are guilty of the crimes they are charged with. Does not mean they should not have the right to be secure in their homes.
In my experience, 90% of bullshiat made up numbers are correct %70 of the time, but that doesn't mean you won't keep using them to justify your desire to make us all "better".
 
2012-12-23 07:11:31 PM
I don't live in the US, so this is all hypothetical for me, but:

How about, as a short-term solution, DON'T LET CRAZY PEOPLE USE GUNS? Also, not people with anger-management issues, convictions involving violence, people using certain substances (legal or otherwise).

3d-printers and creativity will get around any legal limits, of course, so on a long-term basis, maybe the US should do something about public mental health? You know, treat people with issues before they become a problem (which at this point includes most GOP voters). Yeah, I know; it's soshalizm.
 
2012-12-23 07:11:53 PM

dletter: EatenTheSun: wambu: If only legitimate methodology were involved in the survey . . .

What part of their methodology do you take issue with?

/not subby

It was a "Survey Monkey" survey... I believe they get people who are going to take other surveys they requested to take to also take "another" survey.  So, it really is not statistically accurate group of individuals, most likely.

Because, if Obama/Democrats really thought that the extent of opposition to any further gun control measures was only 25-30%, they'd be all over it.


Not to mention that some people wouldn't admit to owning guns.
 
2012-12-23 07:12:07 PM

sinschild: I wonder how many of you would be ok with putting the 4th up for a popular vote? How about the 1st?

Lets just call a constitutional convention and be done with it.

What is it about guns that gets your little panties in a bunch?


Dead_children_murdered.jpg
 
2012-12-23 07:12:34 PM

vpb: I don't think this is about what people think any more than the tax issue is. It's about which lobbyists have more money. The NRA is backed by the gun industry. Whatever anti-gun lobby is left is backed by ordinary people concerned for public safety.

The majority may want gun control, but there isn't any profit in it. There is no "anti-gun" industry to provide financial backing.


So your saying maybe I need to look at corporate sponsorship from Kohl's and K-Mart for my pro-bathmat lobby?

Bathmats save more lives than ANY type of gun legislation, pro or con!
 
2012-12-23 07:12:43 PM

sinschild: I wonder how many of you would be ok with putting the 4th up for a popular vote? How about the 1st?

Lets just call a constitutional convention and be done with it.

What is it about guns that gets your little panties in a bunch?


I have no problem with guns. Just the nuts behind them who think they should be sold the same way books are.
 
2012-12-23 07:17:19 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Fail in Human Form: Ok Fark. I enjoy discussing the issue, but now you're just whoring for ad revenue. I enjoy firearms websites, lord knows I post on enough of them. Why not just give us a firearms tab?

We already have a "flamewar" tab.


And a "Jets" tab.
 
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