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(AP)   President Obama gets one right, goes after the companies that purposely hire illegal immigrants   (hosted.ap.org ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, President Obama, illegal immigrants, work experience, Customs Enforcement, special agent in charge, sandwich shop  
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3691 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Dec 2012 at 2:29 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-23 12:47:05 PM  
Good for him.  This is a positive step, fighting the demand side of the equation for once.

But the fines sound kinda wimpy.  If we really want to go balls-in on the problem, make it like drug laws: EVERYTHING that the business made in that time is assumed to be a result of illegal hiring processes, seized, and sold at auction.

What?  Oh, right... that shiat's just for the little people. . .
 
2012-12-23 12:50:24 PM  
Stricter immigration enforcement has been going on since Obama was first elected.  I'm glad subby finally woke up and took notice.
 
2012-12-23 12:56:14 PM  
Good job.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-23 01:12:12 PM  
Wanting to reform immigration law isn't the same thing as being an anarchist.
 
2012-12-23 01:12:49 PM  
If we want to slow illegal immigration, going after employers who knowingly hire illegal workers is necessary. That means not just the guys who go down to the Home Depot parking lot, but restaurateurs, agribusiness and farms, that means fines that punch folks in the guts.

First and foremost it slows the reason that folks head here illegally. Second, it puts businesses back in equal competition with one another. Folks who hire illegals are willing to game the system for a cheap buck, and compete unfairly with those who do comply with the law. O the pity, that they would have to operate under the same rules that their competition endures...

Get over it, you whiners. A free market is where everyone is free to compete fairly, and gaming the system and then blaming the workers that you lure over the border just dodges blame. Yes, you want to make more money, but heck, I want to make more money too. I have some rudimentary skills in chemistry, and it's just a law that says I can't make meth in my basement right, so I can ignore that?  It's just a piece of paper in a file somewhere that says that I can't run a prostitution ring with 16 year old, right?  Heck, it's only a pesky law that prevents me from just dumping acetone in my backyard, and the stream will just carry that away, so everyone's good, right?

Dame Profit isn't the absolute law. Comply, and compete fairly. If you can't compete doing so by the same rules as everyone else in the industry, then your business is unwieldy and cumbersome, and needs to be put out of its misery, so that others can grow and take your inefficient place.
 
2012-12-23 01:30:22 PM  
I'm ok with this.
 
2012-12-23 01:40:55 PM  
So, under Bush, there were 250 audits. Under Obama, there were OVER THREE THOUSAAAAAAAND!??

I thought it were the *Republicans* that were so anti-illegal immigrant.
 
2012-12-23 01:45:36 PM  
This is Obama showing how anti-business he truly is.
 
2012-12-23 01:48:57 PM  

xanadian: So, under Bush, there were 250 audits. Under Obama, there were OVER THREE THOUSAAAAAAAND!??

I thought it were the *Republicans* that were so anti-illegal immigrant.


did you look at the size of the fines? NO ONE cares about using illegals, there is little downside and little to no chance of getting caught.
 
2012-12-23 01:53:22 PM  

xanadian: So, under Bush, there were 250 audits. Under Obama, there were OVER THREE THOUSAAAAAAAND!??

I thought it were the *Republicans* that were so anti-illegal immigrant.


Always judge people by what they do, not what they say.
The GOP claims to be anti-illegals, but did nothing to enforce the law.
The GOP claims to be small government, but grew the government massively.
The GOP claims to be fiscally responsible, but ...

well you get the picture
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-23 01:54:12 PM  

xanadian: So, under Bush, there were 250 audits. Under Obama, there were OVER THREE THOUSAAAAAAAND!??

I thought it were the *Republicans* that were so anti-illegal immigrant.


The red necks are, the business wing of the party loves workers who don't complain or expect overtime pay for overtime work.

That's why they don't give them legal status but don't try to enforce the law either.  Cheap labor.
 
2012-12-23 02:00:48 PM  
Good!
 
2012-12-23 02:31:34 PM  
This is a great first step.  Next, Americans need to realign their expectations regarding prices on many things.  If milk should be $7/gl without market manipulation, so be it.  Either the market works or it doesn't.  Construction costs more to build your mega strip malls?  Fine.  Strawberries are $40/flt?  Deal with it.  If you truly want to address illegal immigration while espousing the virtues of the free market, then try to be intellectually consistent.
 
2012-12-23 02:33:54 PM  
Hope he sends an inspection team to Mittens house.
 
2012-12-23 02:36:22 PM  
first he kills terrorists to show how oft he is on terrorism, then now he shows how soft he is on illegal immigration by going after businesses that hire illegals.

why so weak obama, why?
 
2012-12-23 02:37:58 PM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: first he kills terrorists to show how oft he is on terrorism, then now he shows how soft he is on illegal immigration by going after businesses that hire illegals.

why so weak obama, why?


lawl
 
2012-12-23 02:38:51 PM  

doyner: This is a great first step.  Next, Americans need to realign their expectations regarding prices on many things. If milk should be $7/gl without market manipulation, so be it.  Either the market works or it doesn't.  Construction costs more to build your mega strip malls?  Fine.  Strawberries are $40/flt?  Deal with it.  If you truly want to address illegal immigration while espousing the virtues of the free market, then try to be intellectually consistent.


I'd be OK with this. (and I'm usually more on the "left" side of things, politically speaking)
 
2012-12-23 02:49:21 PM  
Get's one right? I think Obama has been getting a hell of a lot right lately. The guy is a centrist, pragmatist, and pretty level headed and able to make a gutsy decision every once in a while. That's why his approval rating is approaching 60%
 
2012-12-23 02:50:24 PM  

doyner: This is a great first step.  Next, Americans need to realign their expectations regarding prices on many things. If milk should be $7/gl without market manipulation, so be it. Either the market works or it doesn't. Construction costs more to build your mega strip malls? Fine. Strawberries are $40/flt? Deal with it. If you truly want to address illegal immigration while espousing the virtues of the free market, then try to be intellectually consistent.


What about the dollar manipulation? What about the Government spending money it will never have? What about the nearly 90 trillion dollars in federal liabilities? (see: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323353204578127374039087 636.html)

There's nothing wrong with consistent application of the law (particularly since it's usually the insiders who get away with breaking the law), but illegal migrant workers are the least of our problems.
 
2012-12-23 02:51:07 PM  
Start fining landlords that rent to them, and schools and universities that take them, too.

There is no reason it should be just the employers that are now responsible for enforcing the immigration laws. Go after everybody that does business with them and you'll see some results.
 
2012-12-23 02:51:10 PM  
Damn, Obummer, using regulations to stick it to job creators!

How am doing?
 
2012-12-23 02:53:53 PM  

cchris_39: There is no reason it should be just the employers that are now responsible for enforcing the immigration laws.


they can't get hired, the others thing become irrelevant. Fining employers is the front line.
 
2012-12-23 02:58:30 PM  
I can't convince any Americans to work 14 hour days in the sun and sleep in the barn for $200/week. What am I suppose to do? If I pay $10/hr I would only take home $118k/year?.... Socialism liberals
 
2012-12-23 03:01:56 PM  

werekoala: Good for him.  This is a positive step, fighting the demand side of the equation for once.

But the fines sound kinda wimpy.  If we really want to go balls-in on the problem, make it like drug laws: EVERYTHING that the business made in that time is assumed to be a result of illegal hiring processes, seized, and sold at auction.

What?  Oh, right... that shiat's just for the little people. . .


Is this where the "you didn't build that" mockers come in?
 
2012-12-23 03:04:02 PM  
I guess the stupid farking asshole is liable to make a decent decision every once in a while. Great job, dickhead!
 
2012-12-23 03:06:23 PM  
one, subby?
 
2012-12-23 03:12:15 PM  
Who the fark cares if someone wants to cross an imaginary line in the sand? Why does crossing that imaginary line without the proper papers make one "illegal"?
 
2012-12-23 03:13:30 PM  

namatad: xanadian: So, under Bush, there were 250 audits. Under Obama, there were OVER THREE THOUSAAAAAAAND!??

I thought it were the *Republicans* that were so anti-illegal immigrant.

did you look at the size of the fines? NO ONE cares about using illegals, there is little downside and little to no chance of getting caught.


Agreed the company's caught doing this practice need to pay a fine as follows:

1) The difference between the prevailing wage and what the workers were paid including overtime. In my perfect world the worker would receive at least 1/2 of that money.
2) All taxes including social security that the worker would have paid plus 25% fine on such monies. (I love how they say that illegal workers are a strain on the various state budgets and yet no mention of the companies that withhold such monies because they don't report the employees.)
 
2012-12-23 03:13:54 PM  

Ball Sack Obama: I guess the stupid farking asshole is liable to make a decent decision every once in a while. Great job, dickhead!


meh, should have gone with something about how Obama is only do it as a way to attack small business owners.
 
2012-12-23 03:22:13 PM  

cchris_39: Start fining landlords that rent to them, and schools and universities that take them, too.

There is no reason it should be just the employers that are now responsible for enforcing the immigration laws. Go after everybody that does business with them and you'll see some results.


That's a bit too much. Immigrants that come here illegally sometimes bring children or have children here. Why make their children suffer for something they had nothing to do with? It's one thing to go after employers that hire them, fine, but quite another to not educate their children so they can avoid their parent's fate.
 
2012-12-23 03:22:38 PM  

chascarrillo: Who the fark cares if someone wants to cross an imaginary line in the sand? Why does crossing that imaginary line without the proper papers make one "illegal"?


Because when too many people do that, it affects the soverignty, economy and ecology of that area. I bet you're dumbfounded when by the traffic lights at the on-ramp of a freeway
 
2012-12-23 03:28:44 PM  
Can't wait to hear the Republican outrage
 
2012-12-23 03:30:48 PM  

doyner: This is a great first step.  Next, Americans need to realign their expectations regarding prices on many things.  If milk should be $7/gl without market manipulation, so be it.  Either the market works or it doesn't.  Construction costs more to build your mega strip malls?  Fine.  Strawberries are $40/flt?  Deal with it.  If you truly want to address illegal immigration while espousing the virtues of the free market, then try to be intellectually consistent.


except that this is NOT what will happen.
What would happen is that we would continue to import strawberries from Mexico and further abroad and there would be a minor increase in prices, 10-50% tops.
Milk is a slightly different duck. Their is massive price control by the collectives. And the stupid farm bills.
But once again, we would just import cheaper milk and dairy from Mexico, Canada, NZ, fraking everywhere.

The awesome part about a free market, is that there are no tariffs or bans on imports, allowing the global free market to set rational prices outside of government interference.

Whatever happened to getting rid of the farm bill?
Didnt we do that? Who brought it back? Was it the GOP? The party of small government??
 
2012-12-23 03:32:28 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: chascarrillo: Who the fark cares if someone wants to cross an imaginary line in the sand? Why does crossing that imaginary line without the proper papers make one "illegal"?

Because when too many people do that, it affects the soverignty, economy and ecology of that area. I bet you're dumbfounded when by the traffic lights at the on-ramp of a freeway


But this creates an inherent disparity in the market: Corporations are free to cross and work across borders, but workers are not.
 
2012-12-23 03:32:51 PM  
As a far-left liberal, I'm fine with this and I think it's a far more effective way to handle it than punishing the immigrants. But we still need to address the overall problem with immigration in this country.

Make it easier to move to the US legally, not harder. Whether this is permanent residency or citizenship, or both, I don't care.

Give a path to citizenship to those who were brought to this country when they were young and have not known any other society.

Give a path to citizenship or residency to those who are here illegally without fear of deportation. Make it costly so they're more likely to get their paperwork in order in the first palce, but sending them back when they're just going to jump the border again anyway is a waste of tax money.

Heavily increase the fines on those businesses who are making use of illegal immigrant labor.

Get rid of the ineffective border fence that funneled government money to private enterprise and caused more problems than it solved.

The US is a nation of immigrants. Intentionally fighting to keep them out goes against the very nature of the country's existence.
 
2012-12-23 03:32:53 PM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: Ball Sack Obama: I guess the stupid farking asshole is liable to make a decent decision every once in a while. Great job, dickhead!

meh, should have gone with something about how Obama is only do it as a way to attack small business owners.


Shame that the moderators don't even pretend to enforce the trolling rules. Guys like that should just be banned by IP address; get the alt and the main accounts.
 
2012-12-23 03:39:21 PM  
My how things have changed.....

Obama is going after Illegal Aliens by going after the companies that hire them.....while people like Sean Hannity are now preaching Illegal Alien Amnesty
 
2012-12-23 03:39:42 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Because when too many people do that, it affects the soverignty, economy and ecology of that area. I bet you're dumbfounded when by the traffic lights at the on-ramp of a freeway


I'm dumbfounded when people cite ignoring an on-ramp traffic light as an excuse for nighttime no-knock raids by militarized police. Or the economy or the ecology.

(Seriously, "ecology"? Just call them "dirty mex'cans", why dontcha?)
 
2012-12-23 03:49:16 PM  
If hiring undocumented workers is a crime, then only criminals will have undocumented workers.
 
2012-12-23 03:49:48 PM  

DancingElkCondor: My how things have changed.....

Obama is going after Illegal Aliens by going after the companies that hire them.....while people like Sean Hannity are now preaching Illegal Alien Amnesty


Obama been going after them since he was elected
 
2012-12-23 03:50:24 PM  

chascarrillo: Britney Spear's Speculum: Because when too many people do that, it affects the soverignty, economy and ecology of that area. I bet you're dumbfounded when by the traffic lights at the on-ramp of a freeway

I'm dumbfounded when people cite ignoring an on-ramp traffic light as an excuse for nighttime no-knock raids by militarized police. Or the economy or the ecology.

(Seriously, "ecology"? Just call them "dirty mex'cans", why dontcha?)


being so quick to accuse people are rascism does not help your arguement. everything he said is rational and meaningful. Immigration has a huge effect on the economy and as such deserves to be heavily regulated.
 
2012-12-23 03:52:03 PM  
furthermore, i would argue that large numbers of unskilled laborers that reduce GDP per capita and increase the burden on social services is something that is not desirable
 
2012-12-23 03:55:28 PM  
TheFederal Agriculture Improvement and Reform Act of 1996 (P.L. 104-127), known informally as theFreedom to Farm Act, theFAIR Act, or the1996  , was the omnibus 1996 farm bill that, among other provisions, revises and simplifies direct payment programs for crops and eliminates milkthrough direct government purchases.

The Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008 (Pub.L. 110-234, H.R. 2419, 122 Stat. 923, enacted May 22, 2008, also known as the 2008 U.S. Farm Bill) was a $288 billion, five-year agricultural policy

In June [2012], the Senate passed a $969 billion farm bill that saved $23 billion over 10 years by cutting several farm subsidies and nutrition programs. About $4.5 billion of the savings came from cuts to food stamps. The bill would also eliminate $5 billion in so-called direct payments that are given to farmers or landowners whether or not they grow crops.


2008 - 58 billion a year
2012 - 97 billion a year?? LOL

I tried to find numbers fromt he 1996 act, but my brain melted
 
2012-12-23 03:57:13 PM  
About farking time. Chipotle, PF Chang's and all the others can go to hell. I hope someday a corporation loses its license to operate in Arizona or a corporate officer goes to prison but, hey, we're only fighting a war in Afghanistan and a global war on terror. Why should we expect anyone to obey any law anywhere as long as they make money.

And it's amazing we spent trillions securing the borders of Afghanistan and Iraq (not to mention the lives lost) but we don't bother putting military on our borders when we have millions entering and living in this country illegally.

Try going to an emergency room in Phoenix.
 
2012-12-23 04:00:23 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: DancingElkCondor: My how things have changed.....

Obama is going after Illegal Aliens by going after the companies that hire them.....while people like Sean Hannity are now preaching Illegal Alien Amnesty

Obama been going after them since he was elected


Which is why Hannity and the floor humpers in this thread are now against it.
 
2012-12-23 04:04:41 PM  
Except for the part where he's only doing it for union helping reasons, okay.
 
2012-12-23 04:08:59 PM  
Will we also start calling these businessmen "illegal employers" or simply "illegals"?

A guy can wish.


/Note to imbeciles making assumptions: I don't have a problem with the term "illegal immigrant" it's the fact that illegal isn't used for the people who employ them.
 
2012-12-23 04:13:06 PM  

chascarrillo: Who the fark cares if someone wants to cross an imaginary line in the sand?


You mean like property lines?
 
2012-12-23 04:15:15 PM  
Good, now go after the jackoffs that hire shatloads of H1B's instead of American workers.
 
2012-12-23 04:31:02 PM  
Or we could just stop pretending the myth of illegal immigrants exist.
 
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