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(Deadspin)   LeBron James has committed two fouls in the last 299 minutes of play, which is obviously because he is a basketball playing demi-god, and not because NBA stars can do whatever they want on the court   (deadspin.com) divider line 85
    More: Amusing, LeBron James, NBA, fouls, basketball, Luol Deng, John Hollinger, assists per game, Tayshaun Prince  
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1555 clicks; posted to Sports » on 23 Dec 2012 at 3:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-23 03:12:13 PM
As I joked in a redlit headline, you think that's hard to do, watch him not commit a foul between April 20th-June 20th.

/mind you most stars get this treatment
 
2012-12-23 03:15:26 PM

TheManofPA: As I joked in a redlit headline, you think that's hard to do, watch him not commit a foul between April 20th-June 20th.

/mind you most stars get this treatment


And then we also get games where the refs decide the spread is too big, and they start throwing around T's like Jim Schwartz throws bad challenge flags in the NFL to make the gamblers happy.
 
2012-12-23 03:21:19 PM
one of the reasons I stopped watching the NBA
 
2012-12-23 03:23:40 PM
This is why I Hate This Game...well just the NBA. Love college basketball
 
2012-12-23 03:30:03 PM
To all the people whining about preferential treatment, LeBron, while he has most certainly commited some fouls during that time......he is absolutely phenomenal on defense. Rarely out of position, hardly ever forces things, and basically never frustration fouls. He is the best defender in the league. So while a little preferential treatment might be going on, it's not different than what other stars get, and he absolutely earns it on defense. He is just spectacular.
 
2012-12-23 03:32:04 PM

TheManofPA: As I joked in a redlit headline, you think that's hard to do, watch him not commit a foul between April 20th-June 20th.

/mind you most stars get this treatment


How do you explain the foul numbers for Kobe, Anthony and Durant over the same period, then?

/Genuinely curious, also not a huge Lebron fan.
 
2012-12-23 03:35:13 PM
The NBA is a as crooked as it gets. How is it legal, under Federal law, to run such a scam.

I remember when that NBA ref went down for fixing games, there were many other NBA refs waiting in their lawyer's offices, waiting for the other shoe to drop once he allocuted. Then the NBA asked the judge to waive allocution, and the judge retired happily.

Fark the NBA.
 
2012-12-23 03:37:10 PM

Waldo Pepper: one of the reasons I stopped watching the NBA


I'm sure this comment was based on a well-reasoned thought process.  Now watch in amazement, as people who have no knowledge of the topic repeatedly assert the same tired talking points over and over again.  Oh, right.  This comment.  It already happened.

Dogfacedgod: Love college basketball


College basketball: Where twelve guys who could not make an NBA team are still somehow underpaid.
 
2012-12-23 03:37:21 PM
"I remember when that NBA ref went down for fixing games"

Do you?
 
2012-12-23 03:38:31 PM
I mean, Christ people.  We have game footage for everything now.  Show me the fouls that weren't called during those games.
 
2012-12-23 03:48:13 PM
Did someone say the NHL is playing again.
No.
Damn.
 
2012-12-23 03:52:39 PM

Insatiable Jesus: The NBA is a as crooked as it gets. How is it legal, under Federal law, to run such a scam.

I remember when that NBA ref went down for fixing games, there were many other NBA refs waiting in their lawyer's offices, waiting for the other shoe to drop once he allocuted. Then the NBA asked the judge to waive allocution, and the judge retired happily.

Fark the NBA.


That's racist.

/I know it really isn't
 
2012-12-23 03:57:29 PM

Mike_LowELL: I mean, Christ people.  We have game footage for everything now.  Show me the fouls that weren't called during those games.


Are you saying that stars don't get preferential treatment in the NBA?
 
2012-12-23 04:01:10 PM

downtownkid: Are you saying that stars don't get preferential treatment in the NBA?


From the article:

He's right, though. Where the context for James's streak of games without fouling is steadily achieving his career averages (26 points, 7 rebounds and 6.5 assists per game during the span) and often playing out of position, LeBron's ability to refrain from fouling is a better testament to his all-around dominance than his ability to score points. The only wing playing similar minutes and averaging fewer fouls is Luol Deng, and Deng-perhaps James's only real challenger for best wing defender in the league-is not asked to carry a comparable offensive load. (John Hollinger called Tayshaun Prince, who also averages slightly fewer fouls than James per 48 minutes, "the league's most extreme non-gambler.")

Other stars don't approach James's defensive economy. In Kobe Bryant's last 299 minutes, he's committed 25 fouls. Carmelo Anthony went through a stretch in November in which he committed 31 fouls in 305 minutes. Even Kevin Durant, generally thought to be lithe and graceful enough to stay in position, and surrounded by sufficient defensive talent to avoid particularly difficult assignments, has fouled 17 times in his last 296 minutes of court time.


Even by "star player" standards, LeBron is excelling.  (And "star players get all the calls" is now a dead and finished talking point, now that the National Football League has designed their entire rule set to protect and embrace the quarterback position.)  The onus is on everyone screaming "REFS R PROTECTIGN LEBRON" to prove it.  You have game footage.  Go hunt it down, show me where LeBron fouled someone and the refs choked on the whistle during this stretch.
 
2012-12-23 04:09:02 PM

Mike_LowELL: Even by "star player" standards, LeBron is excelling.  (And "star players get all the calls" is now a dead and finished talking point, now that the National Football League has designed their entire rule set to protect and embrace the quarterback position.)  The onus is on everyone screaming "REFS R PROTECTIGN LEBRON" to prove it.  You have game footage.  Go hunt it down, show me where LeBron fouled someone and the refs choked on the whistle during this stretch.


Lebron's balls must be extra clean by now.  You can stop washing them.
 
2012-12-23 04:11:34 PM
I was wondering how long it would take this story to make it to Fark.

Groan.
 
2012-12-23 04:14:44 PM
bigbaddie.com
 
das
2012-12-23 04:22:29 PM
Thug-ball.
 
2012-12-23 04:32:56 PM

TheManofPA: As I joked in a redlit headline, you think that's hard to do, watch him not commit a foul between April 20th-June 20th.

/mind you most stars get this treatment


And is the reason I quit giving a shiat about the NBA, its boring now because you know what's going to happen.
 
2012-12-23 04:34:56 PM

steamingpile: TheManofPA: As I joked in a redlit headline, you think that's hard to do, watch him not commit a foul between April 20th-June 20th.

/mind you most stars get this treatment

And is the reason I quit giving a shiat about the NBA, its boring now because you know what's going to happen.


Who do you have in the finals this year?
 
2012-12-23 04:34:56 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: Mike_LowELL: Even by "star player" standards, LeBron is excelling.  (And "star players get all the calls" is now a dead and finished talking point, now that the National Football League has designed their entire rule set to protect and embrace the quarterback position.)  The onus is on everyone screaming "REFS R PROTECTIGN LEBRON" to prove it.  You have game footage.  Go hunt it down, show me where LeBron fouled someone and the refs choked on the whistle during this stretch.

Lebron's balls must be extra clean by now.  You can stop washing them.


Good job with the name calling. Terrific way to win an argument.

Now provide evidence of LeBron committing some fouls that should have been called but weren't so we can argue that his non-fouling streak is solely a product of his reputation. LeBron and Luol Deng have been the two players most effective at not fouling for a few years now (according to Kevin Pelton at BasketballProspectus). Seeing that the two are again up near, or at, the top this year isn't surprising. Are you ready to similarly argue that Deng doesn't commit fouls because he's a superstar? I think more accurately, while there may be a foul or two on LeBron where a ref swallowed his whistle, both James and Deng are fantastically economical defensive players.
 
2012-12-23 04:55:15 PM

Mike_LowELL: (And "star players get all the calls" is now a dead and finished talking point, now that the National Football League has designed their entire rule set to protect and embrace the quarterback position



Sanchez officially benefits from the same NFL rules as Rodgers. It's not about protecting stars, which is the claim laid against the NBA.
 
2012-12-23 05:04:08 PM

Sm3agol85: To all the people whining about preferential treatment, LeBron, while he has most certainly commited some fouls during that time......he is absolutely phenomenal on defense. Rarely out of position, hardly ever forces things, and basically never frustration fouls. He is the best defender in the league. So while a little preferential treatment might be going on, it's not different than what other stars get, and he absolutely earns it on defense. He is just spectacular.


Personally, I think the problem isn't so much that LeBron isn't being called for fouls. The problem comes from all of the phantom fouls called when no-name defenders get within five feet of stars like LeBron. LeBron's low foul totals re shocking because of the inflated foul totals of the non-star players all thanks to the unwritten no contact rules in place for the benefit of star players.
 
2012-12-23 05:05:44 PM
Really? People are still getting hooked by Mike_LowELL's performance art?

/still funny as hell Mike
 
2012-12-23 05:06:48 PM
Doesn't surprise me. I feel like every time I watch the Heat no one even attempts to attack James when he's on defense.
 
2012-12-23 05:09:26 PM

Hillbilly Jim: Really? People are still getting hooked by Mike_LowELL's performance art?


He usually keeps that schtick confined to the politics tab. His statements here on video games match up with his blog articles, so I am fairly confident he is not dissembling 100% of the time.
 
2012-12-23 05:11:06 PM

Cubicle Jockey: Hillbilly Jim: Really? People are still getting hooked by Mike_LowELL's performance art?

He usually keeps that schtick confined to the politics tab. His statements here on video games match up with his blog articles, so I am fairly confident he is not dissembling 100% of the time.


I've seen it here mostly. I usually only go to the politics tab when i'm feeling my most masochistic and hate myself.
 
2012-12-23 05:11:53 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: Lebron's balls must be extra clean by now. You can stop washing them.


Step 1: People that a player is getting preferential treament.
Step 2: I ask for evidence.
Step 3: "Lebron's balls must be extra clean by now. You can stop washing them."
Step 4: American Educational System™ at work.

Cubicle Jockey: Sanchez officially benefits from the same NFL rules as Rodgers. It's not about protecting stars, which is the claim laid against the NBA.


Whether or not other quarterbacks get the advantage is irrelevant.  The rule is designed to protect the most marketable position, and by extension, the most marketable players.  It's just more subtle than the NBA's approach (and one that is easier, since player skill sets are segregated by position).

steamingpile: And is the reason I quit giving a shiat about the NBA, its boring now because you know what's going to happen.


Number one, if your decision to watch a sports league hinges on the uncertainty of outcome, your understanding and appreciation of the sport is probably limited.  Two, the National Basketball Association has become increasingly volatile during the last half-decade or so, in-part due to 1) the massive influx of international talent which has finally padded out the available roster slots, and 2) a huge increase in the number of teams relying on three-point shots.  Remember how everyone said the Lakers were going to steamroll through to the Finals?  Lol.  Yes, there's too many games in both of the regular season and the playoffs.  But "the NBA is too predictable" is a cop-out, because the league's best ratings have hinged on dominant superteams and the highly-talented league that resulted from the ABA merger in the mid-seventies is considered the modern nadir of the league, because a black dude punched a white dude.  The NFL's mediocrity through parity is not something I want in the NBA.
 
2012-12-23 05:13:27 PM

Hillbilly Jim: Really? People are still getting hooked by Mike_LowELL's performance art?

/still funny as hell Mike


I has a sad right about now.
 
2012-12-23 05:29:53 PM

Mike_LowELL: AdolfOliverPanties: Lebron's balls must be extra clean by now. You can stop washing them.

Step 1: People that a player is getting preferential treament.
Step 2: I ask for evidence.
Step 3: "Lebron's balls must be extra clean by now. You can stop washing them."
Step 4: American Educational System™ at work.

Cubicle Jockey: Sanchez officially benefits from the same NFL rules as Rodgers. It's not about protecting stars, which is the claim laid against the NBA.

Whether or not other quarterbacks get the advantage is irrelevant.  The rule is designed to protect the most marketable position, and by extension, the most marketable players.  It's just more subtle than the NBA's approach (and one that is easier, since player skill sets are segregated by position).

steamingpile: And is the reason I quit giving a shiat about the NBA, its boring now because you know what's going to happen.

Number one, if your decision to watch a sports league hinges on the uncertainty of outcome, your understanding and appreciation of the sport is probably limited.  Two, the National Basketball Association has become increasingly volatile during the last half-decade or so, in-part due to 1) the massive influx of international talent which has finally padded out the available roster slots, and 2) a huge increase in the number of teams relying on three-point shots.  Remember how everyone said the Lakers were going to steamroll through to the Finals?  Lol.  Yes, there's too many games in both of the regular season and the playoffs.  But "the NBA is too predictable" is a cop-out, because the league's best ratings have hinged on dominant superteams and the highly-talented league that resulted from the ABA merger in the mid-seventies is considered the modern nadir of the league, because a black dude punched a white dude.  The NFL's mediocrity through parity is not something I want in the NBA.


Since Jordan's Bulls career ended every single NBA Finals has involved either the Lakers, Spurs, or Heat. And since 1980, only 9 different teams have won the NBA title in the last 30 years, compared to 15 different teams for the NFL, 17 different teams for the NHL, and 19 different teams for MLB within that same timespan. If that isn't predictable, I don't know what is. It will be Lakers/Thunder/Spurs vs. Heat/Knicks in the NBA Finals this year. If both teams in this years NBA Finals are anybody EXCEPT those teams, I'll have some faith restored.

And as for your ratings excuse, people will watch because they're from one of the cities involved in the Finals, and unless you're from San Antonio or OKC, that's a pretty big market that's in the Finals. Or they will be bandwagon fans who root for the name on the back rather than the name on the front. Not only that, but while the players have a lot of passion for the game, the fans treat it less like a sport and more like sports entertainment, like a product you buy into. I can name rivalries where the fans absolutely detest each other in the NFL, MLB, NHL, even freaking MLS. But the NBA? Only one that's even somewhat stood the test of time is is Celtics vs. Lakers, and that's gone down quite a bit. When it comes to basketball, the NBA is all sizzle, but college basketball is the steak.
 
2012-12-23 05:31:14 PM
And since 1982, only 9 different teams have won the NBA title

FTFM
 
2012-12-23 05:33:26 PM

Mike_LowELL: The rule is designed to protect the most marketable position, and by extension, the most marketable players.


But why does this make the observation towards the NBA's behavior a dead talking point?
 
2012-12-23 05:58:40 PM

Mike_LowELL: Waldo Pepper: one of the reasons I stopped watching the NBA

I'm sure this comment was based on a well-reasoned thought process.  Now watch in amazement, as people who have no knowledge of the topic repeatedly assert the same tired talking points over and over again.  Oh, right.  This comment.  It already happened.

Dogfacedgod: Love college basketball

College basketball: Where twelve guys who could not make an NBA team are still somehow underpaid.


what would lead you to feel my process for no longer watching the nba is not well thought out. I was once of a big fan of the NBA and the ABA.
 
2012-12-23 06:03:11 PM

Troy McClure: Sm3agol85: To all the people whining about preferential treatment, LeBron, while he has most certainly commited some fouls during that time......he is absolutely phenomenal on defense. Rarely out of position, hardly ever forces things, and basically never frustration fouls. He is the best defender in the league. So while a little preferential treatment might be going on, it's not different than what other stars get, and he absolutely earns it on defense. He is just spectacular.

Personally, I think the problem isn't so much that LeBron isn't being called for fouls. The problem comes from all of the phantom fouls called when no-name defenders get within five feet of stars like LeBron. LeBron's low foul totals re shocking because of the inflated foul totals of the non-star players all thanks to the unwritten no contact rules in place for the benefit of star players.


The NBA decided that favoring stars on the court and mass-marketing them off the court (often ahead of their teams).

Then everyone started crying foul when the stars realized they had all the leverage and coalesced around a handful of markets best suited to maximize their on-court capabilities or off-court advantages like favorable income tax rates.

I'm starting to like the NBA again, now that the McGradys and Iversons are disappearing and people like Ron Artest have grown the hell up. Granted, I still wish Seattle would steal the Bobcats in the middle of the night and we'd be done with this nonsense of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of a team.
 
2012-12-23 06:04:30 PM
This just in....

static.guim.co.uk

LeBron James is still a cock.

Film at 11.
 
2012-12-23 06:05:54 PM

Woolwine: Since Jordan's Bulls career ended every single NBA Finals has involved either the Lakers, Spurs, or Heat. And since 1980, only 9 different teams have won the NBA title in the last 30 years, compared to 15 different teams for the NFL, 17 different teams for the NHL, and 19 different teams for MLB within that same timespan. If that isn't predictable, I don't know what is. It will be Lakers/Thunder/Spurs vs. Heat/Knicks in the NBA Finals this year. If both teams in this years NBA Finals are anybody EXCEPT those teams, I'll have some faith restored.


If you're a sports fan, you want the best teams playing the best teams.  I only oppose the length of the season and the opening rounds because, while an underdog upset is an absolutely great thing to watch, a seven-game format for the early rounds doesn't teach you much about the teams involved.  There's never been a comeback from 3-0 in the NBA playoffs, so it makes little sense that if Miami gets up 3-0 on Philadelphia, that they should be playing a fourth game.  I completely agree with that.  But if you're telling me that basketball is boring because, at the end of the day, the four best teams are playing for the championship, why would I oppose that?  I don't watch basketball because I want to be shocked and amazed by an outcome nobody was expecting.  I watch basketball because I want to see freak athletes go to war, and by its inclusive nature (450 roster slots and extremely limited turnover), the NBA does that better than any major professional sports league on the planet.  Oh, and the Clippers and the Grizzlies are legitimate Finals contenders.  Just putting that out there.

Woolwine: And as for your ratings excuse, people will watch because they're from one of the cities involved in the Finals, and unless you're from San Antonio or OKC, that's a pretty big market that's in the Finals. Or they will be bandwagon fans who root for the name on the back rather than the name on the front.


Alright.  I don't see a problem with that.  By design, basketball is a team sport where individuals are given significant ability to determine the outcome.  Doesn't surprise me that people will root for individual players.  And I don't know how to respond to your assertion that basketball fans are docile when compared to other sports fans because it's an absolutely indefensible premise to begin with, like fighting over "the best athlete of all-time" or "which sport has the toughest athletes".

Woolwine: When it comes to basketball, the NBA is all sizzle, but college basketball is the steak.


If I want to watch that style of basketball, I'll go watch the superior European teams.  I don't believe in "rah rah" school spirit and I don't believe in a playoff format which is deliberately volatile in order to generate gambling interest in an amateur sport.

Cubicle Jockey: But why does this make the observation towards the NBA's behavior a dead talking point?


Because the National Football League has basically paralleled the National Basketball Association's move to protect its star players and generate more offense, and as far as I can tell, the perception that "one league does it and the other doesn't" is based on utter misinformation and stereotype.  When the NBA relaxes defensive rules in order to increase scoring, the result is that "NBA players don't play defense".  But when the NFL relaxes its defensive rules to protect passing offenses, the league is about to set a collective league scoring record (close to 23 points per game per team), and nearly every major single-season offensive record has been broken in the last half-decade, it's the "golden age of quarterbacks".  (Note that I am not discounting the possibility that the NFL is redesigning the game to get the action out of the trenches and save their own asses, and this is simply a byproduct of those decisions.)  It's an absolute double-standard.  You can't say NBA players "don't play defense", are "soft" and give a free pass to NFL defenses.  (And no, neither sports league is "soft".)  You can't say that the NBA protects its marketable players and give the NFL a free pass for doing the same thing.
 
2012-12-23 06:08:59 PM

Woolwine: Since Jordan's Bulls career ended every single NBA Finals has involved either the Lakers, Spurs, or Heat. And since 1980, only 9 different teams have won the NBA title in the last 30 years, compared to 15 different teams for the NFL, 17 different teams for the NHL, and 19 different teams for MLB within that same timespan. If that isn't predictable, I don't know what is. It will be Lakers/Thunder/Spurs vs. Heat/Knicks in the NBA Finals this year. If both teams in this years NBA Finals are anybody EXCEPT those teams, I'll have some faith restored.


It doesn't even make sense to compare the NBA to those other leagues, because basketball is the one sport where one player can completely take over the game both offensively and defensively. It may be predictable, but at least you feel nearly every year that the actual best team wins the title. Personally, I like seeing the rise and fall of individual teams, because they seem to play out over time. OKC is a great example of this, in watching how Durant keeps refining his game and how the team continues to take gradual steps toward winning a title. Not to mention there are great upcoming teams like Golden State, Memphis, and the Clippers, and veteran teams like the Knicks and Celtics that are in the mix.

When it comes to basketball, the NBA is all sizzle, but college basketball is the steak.

I really enjoy college basketball and watch it all season unlike a lot of people that only tune in around tournament time. But I don't see how you can call it steak when all of the best players are leaving after one year and you don't have the chance to see them develop. There's a LOT of bad basketball at the collegiate level. I'll give you that part of the allure of the game is that it's unpredictable - especially around tournament time, but the product is nowhere near as refined as the NBA game. I watched a Texas/Georgetown game a few weeks back that finished 37-36, and I can definitely tell you that wasn't steak.
 
2012-12-23 06:10:58 PM

Waldo Pepper: what would lead you to feel my process for no longer watching the nba is not well thought out. I was once of a big fan of the NBA and the ABA.


Because you came into the thread, asserted that an absolutely incorrect premise is "one of the reasons that you no longer watch the league", and left.  You're welcome to clarify.
 
2012-12-23 06:21:22 PM
The NBA has been great for the last 4 or 5 years. I am enjoying this season so far and can't wait for the rest of the season to unfold.
 
2012-12-23 06:22:11 PM

Mike_LowELL: Waldo Pepper: what would lead you to feel my process for no longer watching the nba is not well thought out. I was once of a big fan of the NBA and the ABA.

Because you came into the thread, asserted that an absolutely incorrect premise is "one of the reasons that you no longer watch the league", and left.  You're welcome to clarify.


you make the statement that my process for no longer watching the nba was not well thought out. You based that on a simple comment in a fark thread. Get a life.
 
2012-12-23 06:45:23 PM

Waldo Pepper: you make the statement that my process for no longer watching the nba was not well thought out. You based that on a simple comment in a fark thread. Get a life.


What do you want me to tell you?  Was I supposed to base my response to your post on the number of successfully submitted articles?
 
2012-12-23 06:46:04 PM

coolio mack: Woolwine: Since Jordan's Bulls career ended every single NBA Finals has involved either the Lakers, Spurs, or Heat. And since 1980, only 9 different teams have won the NBA title in the last 30 years, compared to 15 different teams for the NFL, 17 different teams for the NHL, and 19 different teams for MLB within that same timespan. If that isn't predictable, I don't know what is. It will be Lakers/Thunder/Spurs vs. Heat/Knicks in the NBA Finals this year. If both teams in this years NBA Finals are anybody EXCEPT those teams, I'll have some faith restored.

It doesn't even make sense to compare the NBA to those other leagues, because basketball is the one sport where one player can completely take over the game both offensively and defensively. It may be predictable, but at least you feel nearly every year that the actual best team wins the title. Personally, I like seeing the rise and fall of individual teams, because they seem to play out over time. OKC is a great example of this, in watching how Durant keeps refining his game and how the team continues to take gradual steps toward winning a title. Not to mention there are great upcoming teams like Golden State, Memphis, and the Clippers, and veteran teams like the Knicks and Celtics that are in the mix.

When it comes to basketball, the NBA is all sizzle, but college basketball is the steak.

I really enjoy college basketball and watch it all season unlike a lot of people that only tune in around tournament time. But I don't see how you can call it steak when all of the best players are leaving after one year and you don't have the chance to see them develop. There's a LOT of bad basketball at the collegiate level. I'll give you that part of the allure of the game is that it's unpredictable - especially around tournament time, but the product is nowhere near as refined as the NBA game. I watched a Texas/Georgetown game a few weeks back that finished 37-36, and I can definitely tell you that wasn't steak.


That would still be more attractive to me than seeing Heat vs. Lakers being hyped up. They may be the best players in the world, sure. But when I watch a game, I don't want to watch individuals hyped up by the media, nor do I want to see Kobe and Lebron fanboys barking like dogs. When I want to watch basketball, I want to watch good, old fashioned, basketball, which is a TEAM sport. Not a sport where the individual matters more than the team and the fans change teams so often it's hard to tell where their loyalties lie.


But if you're telling me that basketball is boring because, at the end of the day, the four best teams are playing for the championship, why would I oppose that? I don't watch basketball because I want to be shocked and amazed by an outcome nobody was expecting. I watch basketball because I want to see freak athletes go to war, and by its inclusive nature (450 roster slots and extremely limited turnover), the NBA does that better than any major professional sports league on the planet. Oh, and the Clippers and the Grizzlies are legitimate Finals contenders. Just putting that out there.

Basketball isn't boring, just the NBA. Parity is what makes the other major North American sports so exciting. It is VERY refreshing to see the Grizzlies do well, but they won't make the Finals. Not because they won't be deserving, but because David Stern will make sure that a more "marketable" team makes it to the Finals, even if they're not as deserving. I can name a good number of teams in the 21st century that have been deserving of a place in the Finals, but were denied simply because they weren't as "attractive" or "marketable" (The 2001 Bucks and 2002 Kings are the first examples that come to mind). If the Grizzlies make the NBA Finals, I'll be more than happy to eat crow. Even happier if they win it.

Alright. I don't see a problem with that. By design, basketball is a team sport where individuals are given significant ability to determine the outcome. Doesn't surprise me that people will root for individual players. And I don't know how to respond to your assertion that basketball fans are docile when compared to other sports fans because it's an absolutely indefensible premise to begin with, like fighting over "the best athlete of all-time" or "which sport has the toughest athletes".

I mean that they're not as passionate and have no real sense of loyalty. Let me name off some rivalries in sports where the fans despise each other no matter who the players are

NFL: Packers vs. Bears
NHL: Pens vs. Flyers
MLB: Yankees vs. Red Sox,
MLS: Timbers vs. Sounders
College Basketball: Duke (sucks) vs. UNC
College Football: Michigan vs. tOSU
Soccer around the rest of the world: Man Utd. vs. Liverpool, Arsenal vs. Tottenham, Barca vs. Real Madrid, Boca vs. River, Olympiakos vs. Panathinaikos, Galatasary vs. Fenerbache, Inter vs. AC Milan, Roma vs. Lazio, etc. etc.

I can't name ONE matchup in the NBA like the ones I mentioned. A matchup where fans all across the country will watch no matter what players are playing, simply because the teams just absolutely despise each other. The closest thing to it is Boston vs. LA Lakers, and that's been dying down a lot. Come to think of it, European basketball is more passionate than the NBA, at least their fans have loyalty.

People are rooting for individuals over their teams, in a TEAM sport. If I wanted to simply root for an individual player, I'll watch Golf or Tennis.
 
2012-12-23 06:48:37 PM

Mike_LowELL: Waldo Pepper: you make the statement that my process for no longer watching the nba was not well thought out. You based that on a simple comment in a fark thread. Get a life.

What do you want me to tell you?  Was I supposed to base my response to your post on the number of successfully submitted articles?


Why do you feel the need to say anything about what I posted, do you have some sort of crush on me or something.
 
2012-12-23 06:50:06 PM

Waldo Pepper: Get a life


Get a life is my favorite fark insult. As if you aren't sitting in front of your computer too.
 
2012-12-23 06:54:45 PM

Chupacabra Sandwich: Waldo Pepper: Get a life

Get a life is my favorite fark insult. As if you aren't sitting in front of your computer too.


I'm glad I was able to put up a favorite of yours. I can now cross that off my bucket list.
 
2012-12-23 07:20:39 PM

Woolwine: That would still be more attractive to me than seeing Heat vs. Lakers being hyped up. They may be the best players in the world, sure. But when I watch a game, I don't want to watch individuals hyped up by the media, nor do I want to see Kobe and Lebron fanboys barking like dogs. When I want to watch basketball, I want to watch good, old fashioned, basketball, which is a TEAM sport. Not a sport where the individual matters more than the team and the fans change teams so often it's hard to tell where their loyalties lie.


I guess it's just a matter of taste. I can care less about how the media hypes up individuals, because they have their own agenda to push. And I also tend to ignore fans of other teams and even of my own team unless I know them personally or have had some good banter with them in the past. I just want to see the greatest players at that level go to battle.

Full disclosure: I am a Lakers fan and have been one for around 15 years. Maybe I'm naturally biased because I've seen a lot of title teams. But more than that, I consider myself an even bigger fan of the NBA. I can sit back and watch an OKC/Miami final and love every minute of it. I can appreciate the greatness of Tim Duncan and the resurgence he's had this year. I even count Paul Pierce as one of my favorite players. All of this has grown just from watching these guys play over the years.

The college game is so different because it's primarily a coaches game. I can get into those on a different level but it does get hard to watch sometime just because the talent isn't there. If those kids didn't have any sort of athleticism, it'd almost be like watching the WNBA. I can appreciate the good fundamentals, but damn I can only take so much.
 
2012-12-23 07:21:54 PM

Woolwine: The closest thing to it is Boston vs. LA Lakers, and that's been dying down a lot.


as someone in the Lakers area, i can assure that is never the case. i wouldn't piss on Rondo if he was on fire. or KG. or Pube face, or McHale, i would piss on Bird and Russell out of respect. i know my friend from ME is the same way towards the Lakers and Kobe, Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Pau ext.

* the above is in jest. i hate but respect the Celtics. they replayed game 7 of the Finals from 2010. as happy as i was with the outcome, my heart couldn't take watching it again.

Also, the hate that came from Allen going to the Heat shows promise of a new conference rivalry like the Bulls/Pistons of old. lots of fun stuff in the NBA.
 
2012-12-23 07:30:14 PM

Woolwine: When I want to watch basketball, I want to watch good, old fashioned, basketball, which is a TEAM sport.


Basketball is whatever kind of sport that the rule set allows the athletes to operate and function under.  It's a team sport that allows individuals to contribute and thrive.  That's fine.  College basketball operates under a team-oriented philosophy because the vast majority of the players are not good enough to play professionally at any level.  The NBA has also gravitated towards more team play because 1) there's more talent in the league and 2) the changes to defensive rules allow you to play more complete forms of team defense.  Only ten players in the league are averaging more twenty or more points per game this year.  If a team can't stop a single player, that's their problem.  The rules are the rules and the lack of restriction on the ability for an individual to dominate is one of the things that makes basketball interesting.

Woolwine: Basketball isn't boring, just the NBA. Parity is what makes the other major North American sports so exciting.


I don't want to watch parity.  Artificial parity (as accomplished through lenient free agency rules) wrecks the level of play and cheapens the outcome and accomplishment.  It's a means of creating artificial narrative as a substitute for actual appreciation of game strategy and the level of play from the participants.  Basically, it's a way for "expert" talking heads to explain how "NOBODY COULD HAVE PREDICTED THIS", despite the fact it happens every damn year.  But since most people are stupid, they buy into it.  I want to watch teams stick together for half-a-decade and wage epic battles against each other.

Woolwine: People are rooting for individuals over their teams, in a TEAM sport. If I wanted to simply root for an individual player, I'll watch Golf or Tennis.


Unless you can provide any sort of data measuring these things, your premise (NBA fans root for entities in a way that is fundamentally different than that in other sports leagues) and reasoning (lack of rivalries) are indefensible, nor does it even matter.  Blind devotion to a team, no matter the circumstance, is kind of stupid and irrational to begin with.  I watch basketball because I find professional basketball entertaining, and if the Knicks win, more power to me.  I don't need a phony parity scheme to make me feel good about my rooting interest.
 
2012-12-23 07:31:46 PM
I've been enjoying the hell out of this NBA season even though my team (Celtics) has underperformed thus far. The difference for me is that the talent level in the league, thanks to the international players, is so high right now that even the fringe playoff teams like Orlando and Utah are way more watchable than their NFL equivalents (i.e. teams like the Steelers and Bucs) to say nothing of the truly atrocious teams like the Chiefs. I mean, even the Bobcats are watchable this year, even though Mullins needs to be tazed every time he attempts a three.

/just my $.02
 
2012-12-23 07:35:08 PM
I try to avoid sweeping generalizations, but I honestly don't believe that ANYONE is that good, ever has been, or ever can be. It's as unbelievable to me as the thought of a higher power. Fortunately, just like those who are especially vocal about their religion, the LeBron white knights have made it easy for me to see who is certifiably insane.
 
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