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(Salon)   Some of the "bravest atheists in the country" are waging a war on Christmas. And they must be stopped   (salon.com) divider line 592
    More: Scary, Pottery Barn, St. Nick, American Atheists, religious denomination, Philadelphians, Baby Jesus, Easter Sunday, American Museum of Natural History  
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19830 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2012 at 1:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-23 04:58:39 PM
With millions, if not thousands, of devout worshippers, the Church of the FSM is widely considered a legitimate religion, even by its opponents-mostly fundamentalist Christians, who have accepted that our God has larger balls than theirs.

-Bobby Henderson
 
2012-12-23 04:59:01 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Amos Quito: Keizer_Ghidorah: bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: The entire history of Christianity organized religion has been one of persecuting others, assimilating other religions into itself, and trying to spread itself across the world.

F

Don't recall Buddhism doing it, or Hinduism. Christianity, though, took pagan celebrations and stuck the birth and death of Jesus (both of which were movable feasts before then) into them to create Christmas and Easter, as a way to absorb and twist the pagan ways into something "acceptable" to Christianity. Not to forget the missionaries who went to other countries and used threat of death, genocide, starvation, and other means to force the natives to convert to Christianity.


Judaism is the "mother religion" of both Christianity and Islam, and has a proud history of enslaving / genociding outsiders.

See the Torah / Old Testament

Exactly. God himself tells his followers to convert others and destroy them if they refuse. But somehow the New Testament/later documents make the OT/older documents obsolete and unapplicable, except for the one sentence that Christians latch onto in order to persecute homosexuals. So the old stuff doesn't apply except when it does, usually as a means to persecute others.

Confused yet?

/blended fabrics, menstruating women, shellfish, disrespectful children, working on the Sabbath: okie-dokie. Homosexuals: BAAAAAAD!



Personally, I view the religion (or non) of others pretty much the same way that I view their sexuality:  I don't give a rat's ass.
 
2012-12-23 04:59:15 PM
If atheism is a religion, could someone point me in the direction of laws, traditions, celebrations, ethics & lore that I obviously should be following...? Apart from living my life day to day, I mean...
 
2012-12-23 04:59:32 PM

DarkVader: atheism is, by definition, the lack of any religion.


And governance is, by definition, public service to the greater good. *snort* And that's nice.
 
2012-12-23 05:00:38 PM

Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.


Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.
 
2012-12-23 05:01:42 PM
Things that have happened on December 25th:
1837 - 37 people killed in the Battle of Lake Okeechobee between American forces and the Seminole Indians
1932 - An earthquake in China killed 275 people
1968 - 42 people are burned alive in a village in India
1996 - JonBenet Ramsey was murdered

WC Fields, Charles Chaplin, Billy Martin, Dean Martin, James Brown and Eartha Kitt all died on December 25th as well

Merry X-MAS
 
2012-12-23 05:03:35 PM

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


You'd be a terrible atheist, as you think it involves "deep, unquestioning faith". Most of us have chosen atheism because we are reasonable, and reason precludes deep unquestioning faith.
 
2012-12-23 05:03:49 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.


It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here
 
2012-12-23 05:04:31 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: your response to the 'non-stamp-collector' argument was a load of shiat.

You know what kid? You're about to go on vacation because K Mart bargain shelf insults are not intellectual acuity, discourse or interesting. Seriously. Sell it to the kids in English class after Christmas vacation.


I don't have to reach into 19th century lit when you've done me the solid of already being completely wrong.
 
2012-12-23 05:04:36 PM
everything about Christmas is awesome I'm sorry your families suck and you don't want to be around them but don't ruin it for the rest of us.
 
2012-12-23 05:05:54 PM

bunner: You know what kid


Oh, and insulting word choice (again) while tossing out the classic "Alright, kiddo" is actually pretty funny, if you did it on purpose.
 
2012-12-23 05:06:28 PM

kingoomieiii: I don't have to reach into 19th century lit when you've done me the solid of already being completely wrong.


Well, as long as you're not just trolling and looking for a place to fling poo and say " 1 AM s0 teh W1nz0r!" : )
 
2012-12-23 05:07:09 PM

LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.

It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here


I've never met a Masai warrior. What does that prove, and what would that fact contribute to a discussion about the Masai?
 
2012-12-23 05:08:15 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.

It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here

I've never met a Masai warrior. What does that prove, and what would that fact contribute to a discussion about the Masai?


Well now, that depends on how much education you are willing to expose yourself to to learn about something completely new to you :)
 
2012-12-23 05:08:18 PM

ParaHandy: With millions, if not thousands, of devout worshippers, the Church of the FSM is widely considered a legitimate religion, even by its opponents-mostly fundamentalist Christians, who have accepted that our God has larger balls than theirs.

-Bobby Henderson


Alright, but I'm asking you about the damned dodo birds! Do I dump 'em, or what?

/Seriously leaving now. Be back later.
//Son of a...they Don't always come in threes!
 
2012-12-23 05:09:26 PM
Look, kingoomieiii, I realize that this whole "I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT ON THE INTERNET" thing is probably a big deal to some of you, still, but garage sale table assertions and cheap insults do not an argument make. At all. And your ass is hanging out. Now stop trolling me.
 
2012-12-23 05:09:51 PM

Darth_Lukecash: So you can scientifically prove that Santa lives at the North Pole?

Being a story does not exclude it from being a lie.


No.

I can't scientifically prove hobbits live in Middle Earth. So "The Hobbit" is a lie. I can't scientifically prove there are vampires. So "Dracula" is a lie. I can't scientifically prove there are fairies. So "Midsummer Night's Dream" is a lie. I can't prove there are trolls, so "Beowulf" is a lie, and since Circe obviously never existed, the "Odyssey" must be a lie as well.

Merely because something is untrue in the scientific sense does not mean it is a "lie" in the moral, ethical or legal sense. This weird idea that telling kids stories about Santa Claus is identical to telling them stories about baby Jesus which is ALSO identical to telling them God hates homosexuals really gives both Santa and religion way too much power, imo. A story is not a lie in the same way Nixon saying "I am not a crook" is a lie, or in the same way Pat Robertson saying a hurricane is God's punishment for homosexuality is a lie. Letting kids believe a fat old man lives at the North Pole and hands out gifts--and then letting them learn that some stories are not true on their own--is probably better for them in the long run than telling them "That's a lie and everything grown ups tell you is a lie." It's an early lesson in critical thinking.

Or it could be, if overanxious adults weren't so eager to conflate fairy tales with lies.
 
2012-12-23 05:10:02 PM
Everyone take a deep breath. Hold it...count to ten...okay let it out. Repeat as necessary. Thanks.
 
2012-12-23 05:11:16 PM

Amos Quito: Personally, I view the religion (or non) of others pretty much the same way that I view their sexuality: I don't give a rat's ass.


Same here, but it's hard to not care when people are trying to force it to become the law of the land and for everyone to become part of it. It's like everything else, don't get in my face with it unless I want to have it in my face.

bunner: That's nice.

I mean, it's not a question that begfs a response, just anoehr dime store manifesto but, that's nice. you don't really NEED me around to make it true, do you?

Here's a few.

"First there was absolutely nothing which, despite all laws that we understand govern the states of physical matter, became everything." "What about before that?" "Um, well, it certainly wasn't any sort of mystical being. We can prove that." "How?" "Oh, you are super dumb." "All this shiat evolved from some carbon and water that suddenly got a huge bug up it's ass and decided to mutate into about 290457892783498579028375689724958 different things from single cells." "Uh, otay, Pokey."

And see, if that's what happened, I'm sort of fine with that. But it is no more credible if you step back far enough, that we're some really huge sky person's science project. And I'm fine with that, too. The fact that you desperately need to fly one half of the false dichotomy from your car antenna just doesn't impress me.

Nor should it.

It sounds like, what's the word, evangelicalism.


No, it's intelligence and common sense. There is no evidence of any kind of divine, all-powerful being except in thousand-of-years-old texts. And what's in those texts is often contradictory and paints a less-than-flattering portrait of said beings. Also, those beings only started to appear after humans became intelligent enough to start imagining and dreaming.
 
2012-12-23 05:11:35 PM

LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.

It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here

I've never met a Masai warrior. What does that prove, and what would that fact contribute to a discussion about the Masai?

Well now, that depends on how much education you are willing to expose yourself to to learn about something completely new to you :)


Exactly. Thank you.
 
2012-12-23 05:11:45 PM

Moderator: Everyone take a deep breath. Hold it...count to ten...okay let it out. Repeat as necessary. Thanks.


You know? That sort of works.
 
2012-12-23 05:12:56 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: No, it's intelligence and common sense. There is no evidence of any kind of divine, all-powerful being except in thousand-of-years-old texts. And what's in those texts is often contradictory and paints a less-than-flattering portrait of said beings. Also, those beings only started to appear after humans became intelligent enough to start imagining and dreaming.


Well I'm glad SOMEBODY was there. You got any snaps?
 
2012-12-23 05:14:58 PM

Valiente: Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!

Yeah, usually.

/BTW, don't mention he's Jewish and was probably pretty Arab-looking and possibly gay. Heads exploding isn't very festive. For most, anyway.


Nah, he dated Mary Magdalene.

Paul was gay though, and ironically so was the commissioner of the Christian bible, James VI. He ordered it to stop two local religious factions (Catholic / CoE and Protestant) from starting a civil war, and the "Word of God(tm)" oft quoted verbatim is actually a very loose translation into 16th century English of various carefully picked ancient texts, manipulated to suit the politics of the day.
 
2012-12-23 05:16:15 PM
I really couldn't care less about what people believe runs this universe, or how obstinately ignorant people can be about obvious, proven, scientific fact (evolution). Everybody has a right to be as crazy/retarded as they want to be as long as nobody gets hurt. I politely decline flyers from various nuts all year and never feel the need to correct anyone's assumptions about what Jesus' favorite dinosaur was to ride to work.

Its when I hear someone with authority start preaching while operating in their authoritarian capacity that angers me. Like when I hear a small town judge at night court tell some teenager "That's not Gods plan." as I did last week. I want to peel the flesh off his back, nail him to the top of a picnic table and set it on end at the top of a hill then proceed to poke him with a sharp stick and ask "WHERE IS YOUR FARKING GOD NOW YOU DISGUSTING PIECE OF SHIAT?"
 
2012-12-23 05:16:38 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.

It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here

I've never met a Masai warrior. What does that prove, and what would that fact contribute to a discussion about the Masai?

Well now, that depends on how much education you are willing to expose yourself to to learn about something completely new to you :)

Exactly. Thank you.


I should clarify: the want of educating one's self should come from BOTH sides of an argument/debate. One's person's experience, or lack thereof, doesn't make their opinion obsolete - it just makes them less informed as to other worldly goings-ons that others have experienced. I'm honestly glad the 55 year old hasn't experienced that kind of BS - so long as they are a better person from it :)
 
2012-12-23 05:17:10 PM

bunner: Look, kingoomieiii, I realize that this whole "I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT ON THE INTERNET" thing is probably a big deal to some of you, still, but garage sale table assertions and cheap insults do not an argument make. At all. And your ass is hanging out. Now stop trolling me.


We just enjoy making fun of the afflicted. Welcome to Fark.

"Religion is an excellent tool for keeping the commoners quiet" -- Napoleon Bonaparte
 
2012-12-23 05:17:52 PM

bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: No, it's intelligence and common sense. There is no evidence of any kind of divine, all-powerful being except in thousand-of-years-old texts. And what's in those texts is often contradictory and paints a less-than-flattering portrait of said beings. Also, those beings only started to appear after humans became intelligent enough to start imagining and dreaming.

Well I'm glad SOMEBODY was there. You got any snaps?


What does being there have to do with it? Science and logic, along with the history of Earth, shows that there's no evidence of super-duper beings. Earth is 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000 years. That alone throws the Christian side out the window.
 
2012-12-23 05:17:52 PM

letrole: gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

bunner: So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.

Atheists demand respect and expect acceptance of their beliefs. Atheists feel dirty inside. All the anger, the forced arrogance, the belligerence -- it's simply shame turned inside out.


You're cute
 
2012-12-23 05:18:19 PM

thisisarepeat: Its when I hear someone with authority start preaching while operating in their authoritarian capacity that angers me. Like when I hear a small town judge at night court tell some teenager "That's not Gods plan." as I did last week. I want to peel the flesh off his back, nail him to the top of a picnic table and set it on end at the top of a hill then proceed to poke him with a sharp stick and ask "WHERE IS YOUR FARKING GOD NOW YOU DISGUSTING PIECE OF SHIAT?"


Worked for the Romans. : )
 
2012-12-23 05:20:03 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: What does being there have to do with it? Science and logic, along with the history of Earth, shows that there's no evidence of super-duper beings. Earth is 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000 years. That alone throws the Christian side out the window.


But.. teh AL1ENS! See, the thing is, the only one provable thing in this whole maelstrom of "huh UH!" is we don't really know. We do, it seems NEED to know, though. I think we should focus on that.
 
2012-12-23 05:20:52 PM

bunner: "All this shiat evolved from some carbon and water that suddenly got a huge bug up it's ass and decided to mutate into about 290457892783498579028375689724958 different things from single cells." "Uh, otay, Pokey."


Carbon is everything. Most fats are composed almost entirely of carbon and hydrogen. Most proteins are carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen in different arrangements. Hell, METH is just  C10H15N. The chemicals of life are built from what's floating around in the atmosphere and mixing with the water.

Do yourself a take an introductory biochem course. Or some light reading. Evolution isn't hard at all. Take some naturally-occurring minerals in some water and hit them with lightning. BOOM, amino acids. Notable in chemistry for their ability to self-arrange into polypeptide chains of arbitrary length. Leave an entire lake's worth, or ocean's worth, of them chaotically bouncing off of each other and rearranging for, say, 50,000 years and it becomes a bad bet that a self-replicating chain DIDN'T form at some point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_evolution

And, listen. I don't know if there's a god. I just think it's complete lunacy for someone to tell me, based on their access to the same evidence that I have, that THEY not only KNOW that god exists, but they have an extremely specific list of that god's likes and dislikes, and there's some kind of reward for me at the end if I follow the rules. And punishment if I don't.

Based on my complete lack of any evidence that this life isn't it, I tend to live my life under the assumption that it is, that there's nothing after.
 
2012-12-23 05:22:47 PM
The Christians started it, with their War on Thursday. As soon as we put Thor back in Thursday, we can put Christ back in Christmas.
 
2012-12-23 05:22:55 PM

kingoomieiii: Do yourself a take an introductory biochem course.


You know what? You can pretend I'm ill read and clueless about science until your guns bleed, but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate. Didn't you know?
 
2012-12-23 05:24:26 PM

kingoomieiii: Based on my complete lack of any evidence that this life isn't it, I tend to live my life under the assumption that it is, that there's nothing after.


Yes, fine but, NOTHING IMPORTANT HAPPENED THERE. Get it?
 
2012-12-23 05:26:13 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Do yourself a take an introductory biochem course.

You know what? You can pretend I'm ill read and clueless about science until your guns bleed, but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate. Didn't you know?


If you took a biochem course and then came to Fark to talk about how cuh-ray-zee the notion of natural evolution is, I hope they didn't let you pass that class.
 
2012-12-23 05:27:12 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Based on my complete lack of any evidence that this life isn't it, I tend to live my life under the assumption that it is, that there's nothing after.

Yes, fine but, NOTHING IMPORTANT HAPPENED THERE. Get it?


Be more specific.
 
2012-12-23 05:28:32 PM

bunner: but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate.


You've been calling me a kid the last two pages.
 
2012-12-23 05:28:45 PM

kingoomieiii: Iyou took a biochem course and then came to Fark to talk about how cuh-ray-zee the notion of natural evolution is


transitionculture.org

OH YES YOU DID! THAT'S WHAT YOU DID! SEE?


Could you leave a post-it note next to my bed when you're through?
 
2012-12-23 05:29:40 PM

Bonobo62: The Christians started it, with their War on Thursday. As soon as we put Thor back in Thursday, we can put Christ back in Christmas.


Can we put the satyr back in Satyrday?
 
2012-12-23 05:30:31 PM

kingoomieiii: bunner: but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate.

You've been calling me a kid the last two pages.


You've been trolling me like some mouthy kid who thinks they solved the universe from a semester of community college science classes. What did you expect? Can you rehearse your obvious intellectual superiority pose on somebody else's dime?
 
2012-12-23 05:31:22 PM

The One True TheDavid: Please please please make Christmas a religious holiday again.


Whose religious holiday? ...Of the romans? Kelts? Vikings?

Why not just celebrate an annual astronomical event and leave it at that? That's what it's for, anyway.
 
2012-12-23 05:31:48 PM
www.venganza.org
 
2012-12-23 05:31:49 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Iyou took a biochem course and then came to Fark to talk about how cuh-ray-zee the notion of natural evolution is

OH YES YOU DID! THAT'S WHAT YOU DID! SEE?


That's not even close to a strawman. You lumped the notion of abiogenesis in with the big bang theory in the same sentence, and framed them both as positions as ludicrous as any religious dogma.
 
2012-12-23 05:33:07 PM

bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: What does being there have to do with it? Science and logic, along with the history of Earth, shows that there's no evidence of super-duper beings. Earth is 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000 years. That alone throws the Christian side out the window.

But.. teh AL1ENS! See, the thing is, the only one provable thing in this whole maelstrom of "huh UH!" is we don't really know. We do, it seems NEED to know, though. I think we should focus on that.


Some things make more sense than others. Especially when there's far more evidence and actual observational material for some things than others. But of course, you could say "God makes us see things the way HE wants us to see them", so he's deliberately tricking us for whatever reason. If he really wanted humanity to worship him without question, he could just appear to the world or snap his fingers and make us. "Free will!", you speak? It's hardly free when we're threatened with eternal indescribable torture for doing anything that's not groveling to God for our entire lives.

And if God does exist, then so do Odin, Zeus, Quetzacoatl, Ra, and all the others. God himself said that the other deities are real, and he doesn't like us worshiping them instead of him.
 
2012-12-23 05:34:04 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: bunner: but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate.

You've been calling me a kid the last two pages.

You've been trolling me like some mouthy kid who thinks they solved the universe from a semester of community college science classes. What did you expect?


A little self-awareness from you?
 
2012-12-23 05:36:08 PM
I'm a WASP athiest, so therefore I have no problem with religion, Christmas, Santa Clause, etc. As a madder of fact, I love Christmas. These 'athiest' who have a problem with traditional wester culture, I.e 'white' culture are mainly jews.
 
2012-12-23 05:37:23 PM

Tyranicle: I'm a WASP athiest, so therefore I have no problem with religion, Christmas, Santa Clause, etc. As a madder of fact, I love Christmas. These 'athiest' who have a problem with traditional wester culture, I.e 'white' culture are mainly jews.


That started weird and went downhill fast.
 
2012-12-23 05:38:00 PM

Tyranicle: I'm a WASP athiest, so therefore I have no problem with religion, Christmas, Santa Clause, etc. As a madder of fact, I love Christmas. These 'athiest' who have a problem with traditional wester culture, I.e 'white' culture are mainly jews.


Trolling troll goes a-trollin'?
 
2012-12-23 05:38:59 PM

swaniefrmreddeer: We atheists get the blame for everything bad that happens. The talking head fungelicals were on TV mere hours after some nut bag shoots up a school, to say it was our fault. F*ck them, they are what is wrong with this world, not the people who value reason over superstition. I have no respect for magical thinking, it is wrong and dangerous.


Who are you going to complain to about it? God?
 
2012-12-23 05:39:13 PM

kingoomieiii: bunner: kingoomieiii: Iyou took a biochem course and then came to Fark to talk about how cuh-ray-zee the notion of natural evolution is

OH YES YOU DID! THAT'S WHAT YOU DID! SEE?

That's not even close to a strawman. You lumped the notion of abiogenesis in with the big bang theory in the same sentence, and framed them both as positions as ludicrous as any religious dogma.


They are. Nothing turning into everything is just as ludicrous as some big guy with a beard knocking together a petri dish with us in it. It really, really is. The fact that you need to rabidly attack me with false assertions, strawmen ("Oh so you're saying that...") IS a strawman, kid) and to equate being annoying and insulting with some sort of intellectual acuity got boring about 20 posts ago. Kid. And frankly, nothing says "Um, this guy is a little too worked up about this" like being a rabid, pushy dolt. It's an absolute plastic bag over the head of anything like a self evidently valid argument, Ask anybody who has chased Mormons away from his door. So... here is where I shut your silly ass off and the universe continues to do whatever it's doing and you say "z0mG!11 I am s0 teh W1N cause he had to like IGNOR3 ME!" You get the feeling I've sat through this movie before? : )
 
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