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(Salon)   Some of the "bravest atheists in the country" are waging a war on Christmas. And they must be stopped   (salon.com) divider line 592
    More: Scary, Pottery Barn, St. Nick, American Atheists, religious denomination, Philadelphians, Baby Jesus, Easter Sunday, American Museum of Natural History  
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19829 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2012 at 1:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-23 03:17:28 PM

Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?



Okay, now troll Jews!

Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?
 
2012-12-23 03:18:03 PM

Gosling: You can't go criticizing everyone else and then declare that you yourself cannot be criticized.


When the religious stop lying and start making legitimate critiques that will mean something.
 
2012-12-23 03:18:40 PM

Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?


So the internet is a mosque now?

Do something beyond the confines of your keyboard.
 
2012-12-23 03:19:11 PM

ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.


Um, as far as I can tell Santa is the least of a parent's problems or concerns. Just saying, might sound like a big deal to some people to lie to your kids, but I don't think that kids care as much as we think they do. It isn't like 'OMG YOU LIED PARENT!' it is like 'Well, that was a fun game of pretend/fantasy/imagination.' because most kids I know have a pretty easy time transitioning from 'pretend that a magical fairy world exists' to 'real world'. I mean do the Santa thing and if they ask you tell them the truth- it is made up like snowmen coming to life, flying reindeer, fairies, leprechauns, etc. Santa represents generosity and everyone likes pretending- be nice and don't ruin it for your classmates.
 
2012-12-23 03:20:19 PM

ParaHandy: Prey4reign: ParaHandy: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.

So we're Jimmy Buffett and Shane McGowan.

True. However, science is the true enemy of religion, because it's science that demystifies and debunks religious myths.

Pakistan is a religious state itself, and their official state religion worships the same monotheistic sky fairy that the Christians do. But "the details of my myth are better than the details of your myth" is a reason for terrorism (I'd include the Crusades) and wars. This kind of stuff is why many atheists no longer see religions as harmless affectations (unlike fan death) and see them as causing more harm than good.


I offer a tiny bit of irony and you combine a near complete ignorance of religion with a hole where a sense of humor belongs. Lighten up Francis.
 
2012-12-23 03:20:49 PM

fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.


And Freepers are representative of all Republicans.
 
2012-12-23 03:21:08 PM

spidermilk: ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.

Um, as far as I can tell Santa is the least of a parent's problems or concerns. Just saying, might sound like a big deal to some people to lie to your kids, but I don't think that kids care as much as we think they do. It isn't like 'OMG YOU LIED PARENT!' it is like 'Well, that was a fun game of pretend/fantasy/imagination.' because most kids I know have a pretty easy time transitioning from 'pretend that a magical fairy world exists' to 'real world'. I mean do the Santa thing and if they ask you tell them the truth- it is made up like snowmen coming to life, flying reindeer, fairies, leprechauns, etc. Santa represents generosity and everyone likes pretending- be nice and don't ruin it for your classmates.


I mean do parents concern themselves with taking the kids to Disney world and then explaining that Cinderella isn't technically a real princess like Princess Diana or something- she is a made up character. I don't get why people are so worried about "lying" about Santa... kids understand make believe characters.
 
2012-12-23 03:22:39 PM

letrole: Now I Is! The moral code of a Druid, for example, is quite staunchly against any form of bigotry, misogyny, or dogmatic disbelief in the fundamental principles of nature.


Off to good and inclusive start, but then they lose points with the bit concerning human sacrifices and playing football with the skulls of the enemy killed in battle.


But that's the advantage of having no strict dogma, admitting that your ancestors were wrong is actually quite easy.
 
2012-12-23 03:22:51 PM

Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?


Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone who was Jewish complain about the lack of school prayer or teaching evolution?
 
2012-12-23 03:23:15 PM

Amos Quito: had98c: Amos Quito: Sorry atheists, but I really don't understand the POUTRAGE!

WTF do you care?

[i1121.photobucket.com image 496x484]

^ What "activist atheists" might look like ^

People's beliefs have an effect on what they do and how they stand on issues. Beliefs don't exist in a vacuum, they aren't cordoned off in some corner somewhere where it's all happy fun time and anyone can believe anything they want without it having any impact on others. That's why we care.

So you're saying that you are trying to stamp out belief systems that might be in conflict with your political agenda?


No that's not what I'm saying. Thanks though for completely misreading and misrepresenting what I said. My response above can be applied to believers as well on how they should care about what non-believers believe. It works both ways. No political agenda needed.
 
2012-12-23 03:23:39 PM

Amos Quito: Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?


Okay, now troll Jews!

Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?


Not really. Jews don't tend to be douchebags about their religion, though, and try to get it inserted into politics.

fluffy2097: Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?

So the internet is a mosque now?

Do something beyond the confines of your keyboard.


Wait... you expect me to actually go vandalize someone else's property because I disagree with them, rather than simply contest their ideas in public? How Christian of you.
 
2012-12-23 03:24:17 PM

ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.


Religion is a construct of man: it envelopes the good and bad of humanity. For every crusades, there were hospitals. For every persecution there was charity.

It's your choice about Telling Kids about Santa. I think if you sat them down, told them that Santa is a concept of giving, and that it's a game. It would be better. Otherwise you lie to you kid,-and encourage the lie because its going against the flow.
 
2012-12-23 03:26:07 PM

Now I Is!: letrole: Now I Is! The moral code of a Druid, for example, is quite staunchly against any form of bigotry, misogyny, or dogmatic disbelief in the fundamental principles of nature.


Off to good and inclusive start, but then they lose points with the bit concerning human sacrifices and playing football with the skulls of the enemy killed in battle.

But that's the advantage of having no strict dogma, admitting that your ancestors were wrong is actually quite easy.


P.S. It was Hurling not football.
 
2012-12-23 03:26:18 PM

Cheesus: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

And Freepers are representative of all Republicans.


Unlike free republic, Reddit actually has a sizable user base and the people who post regularly number in the tens to hundreds of thousands (since it's a default sub you can't tell who's just stuck reading their garbage).

so yes, /r/atheism is in fact a representative sample.
 
2012-12-23 03:26:50 PM

nucular bum: The One True TheDavid: vpb:

"Here's the bottom line: Where religion is weak, atheism is weak" in its intensity, says Pitzer sociologist Phil Zuckerman. "Where religion is strong, atheism is strong."

This organized Atheism thing is just a reaction to obnoxious bible thumpers.

True enough.

But there are areas where atheist commies and bible-thumpers can cooperate: crusading against Xmas shopping is one. Nobody who truly loves Jesus would be caught dead shopping on Black Friday, let alone Thanksgiving. Do you worship Jesus or Geoffrey the Giraffe?

Please please please make Christmas a religious holiday again.

How about no? Fact is, it never really was. The rampant commercialism of the season very likely predates ole JHC himself. The ancient Romans, Greeks and Persians were busy buying one another expensive trinkets around this time of year, in addition to feasting and drinking copious amounts of wine, mead, beer, and what-have-you. All you god-bothering or -shunning killjoys, keep your hands off my winter celebrations!

/atheist
//don't care what you believe or don't believe
///just as long as you aren't a dick about it


Agreed -- I wrote an article about this some years ago and found some fascinating stuff (including the fact that by the 5th century, priests were already complaining that the faithful were spending too much time at Christmas partying and eating and not enough time thinking about God). Midwinter festivals have been around forever, and the church basically took an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach and decided that this would be as good a time of year as any to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I'm fine with calling it Christmas or Yule or Solstice or what-have-you, as long as we still get some time off.

/Catholic
//We can have trouble in small towns too, depending on where it is.
 
2012-12-23 03:27:12 PM

thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone who was Jewish complain about the lack of school prayer or teaching evolution?


Um...you familiar with U.S. foreign policy?
 
2012-12-23 03:29:29 PM
The only possible way to try to stop the erosion of Christianity's hegemony over other religions would be to enforce harsh rules and laws that would violate the principles of freedom and drive people away from organized religion even more quickly.

Ya'll's farked. If you want to maintain your dominance for as long as possible, I'd suggest you stop struggling and let nature take its course.
 
2012-12-23 03:29:40 PM

fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.


Some atheist... Not all.

Eventually mankind will leave religion behind. When we look at the world as it is... Not how we wish it,
 
2012-12-23 03:29:48 PM
 
2012-12-23 03:33:10 PM
Now I Is! The moral code of a Druid, for example, is quite staunchly against any form of bigotry, misogyny, or dogmatic disbelief in the fundamental principles of nature.

letrole: Off to good and inclusive start, but then they lose points with the bit concerning human sacrifices and playing football with the skulls of the enemy killed in battle.

Now I Is! But that's the advantage of having no strict dogma, admitting that your ancestors were wrong is actually quite easy.

But what about that policeman they burnt in a bonfire or something on that scottish island?
 
2012-12-23 03:35:35 PM

fluffy2097: Cheesus: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

And Freepers are representative of all Republicans.

Unlike free republic, Reddit actually has a sizable user base and the people who post regularly number in the tens to hundreds of thousands (since it's a default sub you can't tell who's just stuck reading their garbage).

so yes, /r/atheism is in fact a representative sample.


Reddit is mostly teenagers.
/r/atheism is mostly angry teenagers that can't express their thoughts at home.

Shut up.
 
2012-12-23 03:35:46 PM

GAT_00: When you live down here, you really do feel threatened just for being nonreligious and are treated as a threat by supposedly good Christians who hate you.


I've been agnostic, and indifferent to religion, and religious holidays for 35 years. I don't go to people's christmas gatherings, don't participate in the office shindig, etc. I've never, ever, ever, even once, felt threatened or treated wrongly because of my lack of belief.

If people hate you, it may just be because of your personality. It is at least an explanation you should strongly consider.
 
2012-12-23 03:36:13 PM
It's not so much that the majority of people in the US are actual Christians, rather they are more Christian culturalists - distinct in that they are "Christians" in a way they percieve Christianity to be, not how it actually is. As Bill Maher pointed out, they aren't really followers of Christ, merely fans.
 
2012-12-23 03:36:50 PM

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


To be fair, it took me a considerable amount of soul searching and observation to come by my lack of faith in an invisible sky wizard. What sealed the deal for me was hearing the many accounts of people -- and I'm not talking about schizophrenics necessarily -- who claimed to hear "God's voice." They were so inconsistent, contradictory, often ridiculously petty, self-serving, and sometimes weapons-grade crazy. What sort of singular entity would behave so capriciously? Surely the One True God would proffer a consistent message. My conclusion: it ain't God, it's your brain chemistry.
 
2012-12-23 03:37:13 PM
Stop making religious based laws and stop putting religion in public schools and you will never hear from 90% of atheists again.

Stop harassing us in our homes and on the streets and you'll never hear from another 9% of atheists again.

The remaining 1% will always be around because we enjoy mocking your ridiculous beliefs.
 
2012-12-23 03:38:04 PM

fluffy2097: Cheesus: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

And Freepers are representative of all Republicans.

Unlike free republic, Reddit actually has a sizable user base and the people who post regularly number in the tens to hundreds of thousands (since it's a default sub you can't tell who's just stuck reading their garbage).

so yes, /r/atheism is in fact a representative sample.


Eh, if you say so. Anonymity tends to bring out the worst in people. That, combined with the fact that atheists tend to be blamed for everything bad that's ever happened, ever makes them angry and want to lash out. Been there, grown up.
 
2012-12-23 03:38:23 PM

thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?


Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion.

momentmagazine.files.wordpress.com

ericpalmer.files.wordpress.com

 www.bollyn.com


atljewishtimes55.1upprelaunch.com

www.globalpost.com

They don't?
 
2012-12-23 03:38:48 PM

thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone who was Jewish complain about the lack of school prayer or teaching evolution?


Actually, there is an issue of Hasidic Jews forcing their hard core views on their more modern/secularist Jewish counterparts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/stanley-weiss/israels-future- w hen-its-j_b_1600841.html
 
2012-12-23 03:39:13 PM

Darth_Lukecash: ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.

Religion is a construct of man: it envelopes the good and bad of humanity. For every crusades, there were hospitals. For every persecution there was charity.

It's your choice about Telling Kids about Santa. I think if you sat them down, told them that Santa is a concept of giving, and that it's a game. It would be better. Otherwise you lie to you kid,-and encourage the lie because its going against the flow.


WHERE did we get this idea that Santa Claus is a "lie"? Someone said up above--is EVERYTHING that is a story a "lie"? Is it necessary to explain, when you go see "The Hobbit" that there's really no such place as Middle-Earth and hobbits and dwarves and dragons are just pretend and none of that is real so don't get any ideas, kid? Or that Cinderella and Ariel aren't actually princesses? Because that's all Santa is--a story.

Kids figure it out, about age 5 or so, when they start to realize that all the wrapping paper is the same and there are "Santas" in every mall and at every parade. Then they pretend another year or two because it's fun and it makes them feel superior to any little brothers or sisters they've got. (And to any silly adults who keep asking them if they've been good so Santa will bring them presents) Then they drop it. There's no need to kill the joy earlier.

People would figure the same thing out about God, except that we keep the pretense going into our adulthood, with churches and synagogues and mosques and everyone keeps up the pretense. And the ones who feel superior about knowing there is no god tend to be irritatingly smug and preachy about it. But equating god and Santa is just asinine. Let your kids believe in an annual story for a couple years. They won't die or join a Crusade. And by age 8, they won't even care.
 
2012-12-23 03:39:27 PM

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


This is a 100% incorrect strawman of the atheist position. Do you need to justify your faith by creating lies about people who don't agree with you??
 
2012-12-23 03:41:14 PM

Pitabred: Amos Quito: Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?


Okay, now troll Jews!

Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Not really. Jews don't tend to be douchebags about their religion, though, and try to get it inserted into politics.

fluffy2097: Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?

So the internet is a mosque now?

Do something beyond the confines of your keyboard.

Wait... you expect me to actually go vandalize someone else's property because I disagree with them, rather than simply contest their ideas in public? How Christian of you.


WHY U ADDRESS THIS TO ME???
 
TWX
2012-12-23 03:42:17 PM

ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.


No, there is a real war on Christmas, and your first sentence summarized it in a nutshell.

Conspicuous consumption is the real war on a religious Christmas.
 
2012-12-23 03:46:04 PM

Darth_Lukecash: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

Some atheist... Not all.

Eventually mankind will leave religion behind. When we look at the world as it is... Not how we wish it,


This is where I think militant atheists are ridiculous with just as fantastic a teleology as any Christian Bible thumper: this notion that the world will be better without any religion. Human nature is human nature, and there will be something else just as irrational, but probably more unkind to take Christianity's place if they are successful.

Hearing their preaching on this always reminds me of early, naive Communist tracks about how the world will be better of with the creation of the New Soviet Man.
 
2012-12-23 03:47:17 PM

Amos Quito: thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion.





 






They don't?


I don't recall any Jewish person demanding a menorah be placed a court house lawn.

Nor have they demanded shrimp be outlawed.

But they do hsve a great interest not in being executed in genocide. Nor do they wish to see the country that was founded to protect their people, wiped out.
 
2012-12-23 03:49:04 PM

Amos Quito:
Not really. Jews don't tend to be douchebags about their religion, though, and try to get it inserted into politics.

WHY U ADDRESS THIS TO ME???


I only addressed the bolded part of it to you. If you look back at my post, it's got multiple quotes in it.
 
2012-12-23 03:49:57 PM

Amos Quito: thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion.

[momentmagazine.files.wordpress.com image 248x185]

[ericpalmer.files.wordpress.com image 483x316]

 [www.bollyn.com image 400x456]


[atljewishtimes55.1upprelaunch.com image 350x280]

[www.globalpost.com image 360x240]

They don't?


AIPAC is a pro-Israel lobby. It's about foreign policy and has nothing to do with religion.
 
2012-12-23 03:51:43 PM
I noticed a lot of these goobers have started bleating about strawman this and strawman that.

The bad part is that there aren't any strawman arguments being exposed. Please learn a new farking word.

Strawman is the new Troll.
 
2012-12-23 03:52:56 PM

LindyJohn: Darth_Lukecash: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

Some atheist... Not all.

Eventually mankind will leave religion behind. When we look at the world as it is... Not how we wish it,

This is where I think militant atheists are ridiculous with just as fantastic a teleology as any Christian Bible thumper: this notion that the world will be better without any religion. Human nature is human nature, and there will be something else just as irrational, but probably more unkind to take Christianity's place if they are successful.

Hearing their preaching on this always reminds me of early, naive Communist tracks about how the world will be better of with the creation of the New Soviet Man.


Who said it would be better?

I'm sure we'll find some philosophical/political theory to fight about.

I'm just saying that certain things will be abandoned.
 
2012-12-23 03:53:55 PM

thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone who was Jewish complain about the lack of school prayer or teaching evolution?


And when did they try to make it law that you have to cut the end of your baby son's dick off?

I will pick on them for beliefs just like anyone else - the rules about milk, meat and shellfish aren't really useful when you live in NYC and have a refrigerator, for example. Also the blind loyalty to Israel regardless of its bad behaviour.

Jews are not much of an issue because most of them are more cultural than religious; however, Jewish fundies can be just as obnoxious about projecting their religion into public sphere as fundie Christians or Muslims - there was a fundie Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn last year that tried to block the installation of cycle lanes, because they didn't want women in tight shorts riding past and corrupting their youth.
 
2012-12-23 03:54:57 PM

letrole: I noticed a lot of these goobers have started bleating about strawman this and strawman that.

The bad part is that there aren't any strawman arguments being exposed. Please learn a new farking word.

Strawman is the new Troll.


0.5/10
 
2012-12-23 03:54:59 PM

ParaHandy: Moral of the story: reality is not a popularity contest. Just because 100m Americans believe in some kind of deity does not make it so.


Or not so. Thefact of the matter is, you don't know, they don't know, I don't know and to deny that is to piss from a great height on science. But, then so does this while zeitgeist of "YOU HAVE TO ABSITIVELY COMMIT TO A SIDE!" that permeates our entire culture, as of late.

Something I didn't note earlier ... religious faith is strongly correlated with being older, less intelligent and less educated. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Oh, I did. I got some blanket and ostensibly unimpeachable statistics can let you have for a pair of super bowl tickets. First thirty rows, please. They're really good statistics.
 
2012-12-23 03:56:30 PM

Gyrfalcon: Darth_Lukecash: ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.

Religion is a construct of man: it envelopes the good and bad of humanity. For every crusades, there were hospitals. For every persecution there was charity.

It's your choice about Telling Kids about Santa. I think if you sat them down, told them that Santa is a concept of giving, and that it's a game. It would be better. Otherwise you lie to you kid,-and encourage the lie because its going against the flow.

WHERE did we get this idea that Santa Claus is a "lie"? Someone said up above--is EVERYTHING that is a story a "lie"? Is it necessary to explain, when you go see "The Hobbit" that there's really no such place as Middle-Earth and hobbits and dwarves and dragons are just pretend and none of that is real so don't get any ideas, kid? Or that Cinderella and Ariel aren't actually princesses? Because that's all Santa is--a story.

Kids figure it out, about age 5 or so, when they start to realize that all the wrapping paper is the same and there are "Santas" in every mall and at every parade. Then they pretend another year or two because it's fun and it makes them feel superior to any little brothers or sisters they've got. (And to any silly adults who keep asking them if they've been good so Santa will bring them presents) Then they drop it. There's no need to kill the joy earlier.

People would figure the same thing out about God, except that we keep the pretense going into our adulthood, with churches and synagogues and mosques and everyone keeps up the pretense. And the ones who feel superior about knowing there is no god tend to be irritatingly smug and preachy about it. But equating god and Santa is just asinine. Let your kids believe in an annual story for a couple years. They won't die or join a Crusade. And by age 8, they won't even care.


So you can scientifically prove that Santa lives at the North Pole?

Being a story does not exclude it from being a lie.
 
2012-12-23 03:59:16 PM

bunner: Fark Dupp: [guitarsandaudio.com image 500x375]

Here, let me shut your TeeVee off and demonstrate how stupid you are to watch it when it's on. "Cheetos are cheese like margarine is butter." Wait, no.. um, "dresses are pants like.." Wait, hang on..


Well, whatever your supernatural belief of choice is, it's super dumb, but if I respond honestly to a direct question about what religion I practice, I will be considered untrustworthy by the religious (85% of people).

In a world where you will be harassed by the majority and barred from public office for not collecting stamps, expect to see some pushback and criticism of stamp collecting.
 
2012-12-23 04:01:09 PM

Darth_Lukecash:
Who said it would be better? I'm sure we'll find some philosophical/political theory to fight about. I'm just saying that certain things will be abandoned.


Have you seen the episode of South Park where Cartman travels to 3000 AD and finds out that they have turned science into a religion and worship video games? :)

It's true that most humans will eventually eschew religion, just like we put behind us any other false belief ... the earth is flat, blood ebbs and flows, phlogiston, banging sticks together to make it rain, ...

Religion has left us some cool shiat. Scotland is covered in stone circles, and the beautiful disused churches in Edinburgh make great pubs, restaurants and theatres.
 
2012-12-23 04:02:27 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Amos Quito: thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion.

They don't?

I don't recall any Jewish person demanding a menorah be placed a court house lawn.


www.themoralliberal.com


What about the White House lawn?

Darth_Lukecash: Nor have they demanded shrimp be outlawed.


Have you seen anyone trying to force anyone to eat shellfish?

Darth_Lukecash: But they do hsve a great interest not in being executed in genocide. Nor do they wish to see the country that was founded to protect their people, wiped out.


So atheists will fight like hell to keep religion out of the sphere of public influence in most countries, but they're okay with a State that was founded on and exists to serve the interests of racism and religious / ethnic centrism?

That's an interesting thought.
 
2012-12-23 04:03:45 PM

kingoomieiii: Well, whatever your supernatural belief of choice is, it's super dumb,


Surely you cribbed this from Kant or Hegel.

kingoomieiii: if I respond honestly to a direct question about what religion I practice, I will be considered untrustworthy by the religious (85% of people).


I have a few statistics and baseless assertions left over from the ones I traded for Superbowl tickets, in case you run out.
 
2012-12-23 04:07:22 PM

bunner: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Hey, Hey HEY! Let's not get all out of hand here!


Atheists in Islamic countries take on Islam.
 
2012-12-23 04:09:32 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Well, whatever your supernatural belief of choice is, it's super dumb,

Surely you cribbed this from Kant or Hegel.

kingoomieiii: if I respond honestly to a direct question about what religion I practice, I will be considered untrustworthy by the religious (85% of people).

I have a few statistics and baseless assertions left over from the ones I traded for Superbowl tickets, in case you run out.


Did they give you the first thirty rows? (Also, no way he got that from Hegel. Wouldn't surprise me if it was Kant.)

/Not a fan of Kant
//Slashies
///I heard they come in threes. True?
 
2012-12-23 04:10:00 PM

kingoomieiii: bunner: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Hey, Hey HEY! Let's not get all out of hand here!

Atheists in Islamic countries take on Islam.



Now THOSE would be brave atheists indeed.
 
2012-12-23 04:10:27 PM
I'm an athiest and really dont care if people want to celebrate thier holiday. Most athiests are more annoying than christains. STFU and let people enjoy themselves the way they see fit. Merry Xmas, happy holidays, and that jewish thing that I cant spell or care to learn. Peace on earth and good will toward men...and women. Now go make me a sandwich.
 
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